Erich Leinsdorf

Presenter0:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Erich Leinsdorf0:08

You were born in

Presenter0:09

The end.

Erich Leinsdorf0:10

Yes, indeed, and uh had all my schooling, my formal education.

Presenter0:14

Did you hear a lot of music as a child?

Erich Leinsdorf0:16

Oh yes, indeed. Um not perhaps uh the same kind of music which we have.

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Now picking for the desert island trip,

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Uh a very

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very great variety of music from an orchestra in a pavilion in an outdoor cafe. I listened to about every conceivable kind of music. I stood there in fascination and looked at all the musicians. And that was perhaps one of the one of the greatest musical impressions of my earlier childhood.

Erich Leinsdorf0:49

How old were you when you started to study yourself?

Erich Leinsdorf0:52

Uh I would think I was five because I became totally intolerable. I couldn't be sent to school until I was way past six due to my birthday being in February. And I think I was sent to music school just because I was so intolerable.

Presenter1:05

Yes. Then you went to the University of Vienna and you attended

Erich Leinsdorf1:08

It was a little later.

Presenter1:09

Yeah.

Presenter1:10

You attended the State Academy. How far were you into your studies when you decided that it was conducting that interested you most?

Presenter1:17

Oh, I was quite far

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into my studies I started uh working

Erich Leinsdorf1:23

Oh, when I was about fifteen, and when I went actively after conducting experience, I was.

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Better than nineteen. Uh

Presenter1:33

When you left the Academy, was there plenty of work about for you?

Erich Leinsdorf1:37

None at all. Uh the the correct career for a person who

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was embarking upon conducting.

Erich Leinsdorf1:46

was to go through the smaller opera theatres of Germany. But Germany for me was by 1933, when I graduated from the academy, already firmly and tightly closed. And Austria had really nothing to offer.

Presenter1:52

When

Presenter1:58

Yeah.

Erich Leinsdorf2:00

It was in an economic crisis, as it had been ever since it became a republic in 1918, after the end of this disastrous war.

Erich Leinsdorf2:10

and I just played around the the piano and coached and prepared choral groups. One of the nicer things of those years was that I accompanied a chorus which was conducted by Anton Weber.

Presenter2:25

Really?

Erich Leinsdorf2:25

Yes, for two years, from thirty two to thirty-four.

Erich Leinsdorf2:29

Up to february 34,

Erich Leinsdorf2:31

Um I had enough to do. It was a little bit uh wild and it would not have led any place. It would certainly not have led to any kind of orchestral or operatic conducting. And I knew then and there that occasionally I would have to leave the country.

Presenter2:47

Yes. And your assistant Toscanini?

Erich Leinsdorf2:49

Yes, that came later, that came after the fall of 1934.

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And there a strange uh connection.

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leads from Weben via myself to Toscanini because Toscanini

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Prepared and conducted in Vienna the Psalmus Hungaricus, and for the rehearsal, for the piano rehearsal with the solo tenor.

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one couldn't find anybody who knew the peace. And when I heard about this, I said, but I know the peace. And the president of the Vienna Philharmonic

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They were all very much afraid of Toscanini. I said, How do you know the piece? How come you know the piece? I said, Because I played it two years ago.

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when I accompanied the chorus with the Weban. And of course when you

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play for a chorus in rehearsal.

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You know the piece so that you can play it sideways, backwards and in the diagonal, because you do it so often.

Erich Leinsdorf3:44

And I said, this piece I can play also for Toscanini. And that was the way I met him. And then for the next three, four years I was his only assistant.

Presenter3:54

Yes. Was he such a difficult man to work for as the legends make out?

Erich Leinsdorf3:59

He could not abide stupidity.

Erich Leinsdorf4:02

But when he saw anybody who was in his mind and in his soul an artist.

Erich Leinsdorf4:10

First of all, he was not pedantic. He was not a literal uh interpreter. His portrait will still have to be written. A one which will convey to people something of his musical and other personality.

Presenter4:24

Yes. It was Toscanini who made it possible for you to go to the United States, to the metropolitan

Erich Leinsdorf4:29

It was certainly it would certainly not have happened without my having worked for him, because um the fact that I worked for him um for several years was in itself a recommendation. And then when he had the opportunity, he uh told people of this um young man who couldn't find a

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a job in Austria.

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due to the political winds of the time.

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And uh

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He was more or less very much involved with the setting up of the early stages of my career.

Presenter5:03

So mister Leintorf, you became, in nineteen thirty seven, wasn't it, the assistant conductor for the German repertoire at the Metropolitan Opera.

Erich Leinsdorf5:11

Yes, uh it was

Erich Leinsdorf5:14

More I would say the assistant conductor to Mr. Bodanski. Of course he was in charge of the German repertoire.

Presenter5:21

Yes.

Erich Leinsdorf5:22

Uh he needed um somebody

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to understudy him because the work had become

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somewhat too heavy for him. Uh the the great success

Erich Leinsdorf5:35

In the year previous, of Luxstadt Melchior had increased the Wagner repertoire enormously and he just uh felt that three to four times a week uh Wagner performances was too much for any one man, particularly one who was not in the most robust health.

Presenter5:53

Yeah.

Erich Leinsdorf5:53

Yes. You were very young at this time. Uh my debut was made uh approximately um

Erich Leinsdorf6:00

two weeks before my twenty sixth birthday.

Presenter6:03

And some of the senior members of the company weren't very happy about such a young man being in charge.

Erich Leinsdorf6:09

I don't think it has anything to do with the youth. I think it had something to do that that one of these uh great members of the company

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had her own um

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idea who the junior conductor should be.

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And I'm tempted to give you

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Perhaps my own definition of what is a prima donna.

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A prima donna is a great singer.

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Who manifests her greatness not only in her great singing,

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The bet

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in her ability to determine who shall be the conductor.

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What actually happened in this, of course, some musical and some.

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Of my own

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early clumsiness as a cause,

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I was and still am of the opinion that that Wagner uh essentially uh demands a very

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broad approach. I'm still of that

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School. Enormous volume.

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great romantic fervor.

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great intensity and rather deliberate tempeh.

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And one day after the freycast was over and

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Peace had been restored.

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Melchia was uh

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sincere and open and truthful enough to say to me, you know

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Your tempe may be perfectly all right, but nobody can sing them three times a week. Now I would give him um points for being very sincere at that moment. At least he said to me,

Erich Leinsdorf7:43

Look, my boy, pragmatically, these tempi are not are not the right ones. And he undoubtedly was correct. I think it as a commercial attitude, he was absolutely absolutely in his rights to say so. This the tempe probably which

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were intended to be some once

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Every equal once every ten days.

Presenter8:07

Then they say

Erich Leinsdorf8:09

How long did you stay at the Met? The chronology is that I stayed at the Met from 37 to 43.

Presenter8:16

Yeah.

Erich Leinsdorf8:16

And then you went to and and got appointed to the Cleveland Orchestra. This lasted exactly about six or seven weeks until I was claimed for another opportunity by the United States Army, which was the end of Cleveland. I then stayed in the Army until I was discharged. Then I freelanced. And in that freelancing period, I again visited at the Met as conductor.

Erich Leinsdorf8:45

Now you had a long spell with the Boston Orchestra, didn't you?

Erich Leinsdorf8:49

Seven years with um a total of seven hundred and twenty one concerts.

Erich Leinsdorf8:58

Oh, it seems uh like an odyssey.

Presenter9:02

And now you are freelancing again.

Erich Leinsdorf9:03

And I intend to stay freelancing. I find that today the organizations in music.

Erich Leinsdorf9:11

I loaded.

Erich Leinsdorf9:12

With so many non-musical problems with which I sympathize.

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But

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Uh take away.

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From one's concentration on music, if one is too deeply involved with an organization. I think.

Presenter9:30

Yeah.

Erich Leinsdorf9:32

It is the managers

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the directors, trained executives, people today who must be trained.

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In labor relations and personnel relations. These people should bear.

Erich Leinsdorf9:47

Not only the brunt, but I think the total gratifications of being successful in it and the responsibility of handling it. I think that we musicians should stick to music. And if you are.

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permanently affiliated with an organization.

Erich Leinsdorf10:03

You are faced every day, at least um it is my experience in America, you are faced every day with another problem which has nothing whatsoever to do with music.