Deborah Meaden

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:43

My castaway this week is the entrepreneur Deborah Meaden. For 15 years she's been making deals and occasionally dashing dreams in the BBC's Dragon's Den. Her own entrepreneurial fire sparked at a young age. By the time she was seven, she was selling flowers from a stall at the end of her family's driveway. Her first official business took off while she was still in her teens. She was living in Italy and launched a homeware company, selling glassware and ceramics to high-end stores back in the UK. After that, she worked in fashion, then in the holiday industry, joining her family's business, arcade concessions in holiday parks. In those years, she discovered that she was a natural bingo caller and a natural at calling the shots. She started out on the shop floor and worked her way up before buying her parents out. She built the business up, eventually selling her remaining steak as part of a deal worth £83 million. She says, I never thought I'd be a millionaire. People ask me, what's my recipe to success? And I have to be honest with them and say I don't know. Deborah Meaden, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hello, Lauren. Thank you for having me. So Deborah, you can't give us the recipe for success, but I dare say you can give us a clue about the ingredients that it might require. What have you got to have going for you to begin with? I look at entrepreneurs and I, you know, they're all different shapes and sizes and all different personalities, but I think...

Presenter2:05

The thing that I see running through are confidence, probably a little bit too much sometimes, good judgment. I call it a good nose for it, you know. And they've we've all got our heads up and we're looking for opportunity and we want to take a risk. Not crazy risks, but we're happy to take a risk. Those are the things that I see in most successful entrepreneurs. You're a serial investor in many different businesses, and you've been on Dragon's Den for 15 years now. When you're deciding whether to invest in an idea, what's in the lead? Your head or your heart? Definitely, my head is in the lead when it comes to investments. My heart is allowed to make lots of decisions. But when it comes to not just my financial investment, but also the people who are pitching, you know, it's important that I help the businesses that I think have got the best chance of survival and the best chance of changing their own lives. So my head gets 99% of its own way. But when I get to the end of that, I call it a line of switches. You know, I click all the switches down, I think, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then I get to the last switch and I think, now, how do I feel about this? And if it doesn't feel right, I won't invest.

Deborah Meaden3:12

No.

Presenter3:16

That's very interesting to hear you say that because the range of companies in your portfolio includes some very interesting things: whiskey, ice cream, fashion, the DJ system. I mean, sounds like the best night out ever. How focused are you on your specific interests and expertise? I am very lucky. So, having been in Dragon's Den for 15 years, I've been exposed to an awful lot of industries. But actually, before that, when I was in holiday parks, if you think about a holiday park, it had bars and catering, it had restaurants, and clubs, and swimming pools, and accommodation and sewerage treatment plants. You know, when I remember when I first went into Dragon's Den thinking, how do I know about air change systems? You know, but of course I did because I knew about that from the holiday parks. So, I feel really lucky to have been exposed to an awful lot of information. But my thing is, all I need to know is enough to know what I don't know. I don't need to know everything. I can find the expert. I always look for the expert in the room. I need to know what I don't know. And once I feel like I will know what I don't know, then I can invest. Deborah, we're about to hear your first disc. I mean, anyone who saw your char chart on Strictly back in 2013 will know that you can shimmy with the best of them.

Presenter4:31

Do you plan to dance on your island? The day I can't dance, I might as well give up. Absolutely, I intend to dance on the island. So you kept going after Strictly? I did. My husband did the most lovely thing during Strictly and he took up dancing lessons because he could see how much I was loving it and he thought well when it's over for her it's over. Since I came out of Strictly we keep up with those and we actually went over to Buenos Aires to learn Argentine tango from the Argentines. Oh gosh how was that? Yeah oh it was absolutely amazing. It's very different to the show Tango's. We try to dance minimum of two hours a week but we try to get in sometimes four hours a week.

Deborah Meaden4:57

So gosh

Presenter5:09

Fantastic. Well, I think we'd better slip our dancing shoes on then, Deborah. What's your first choice today? My first choice of music is kind of the first piece of music that I really started to boogie to. And I was at boarding school. I didn't really like school. I didn't enjoy boarding school. I felt terribly cramped. But after dinner, we were allowed an hour with a record player and we could all bring a record. And my record was Ride a White Swan. And there we were, a dozen or so 12-year-old girls having a good old boogie.

Presenter5:43

Ride it all out like a bird in the sky wheels Ride it all out like a you were bird Fly it all out like an eagle in the sunbeam Ride it all out like a you were bird

Presenter6:00

Wear a tall hat like the true in the old days Wear a tall hat and a tattooed gown Ride a white swan that the people of a bell dream Wear your head long, baby, come go run

Presenter6:16

T Rex and Rider White Swan. So Deborah Meaden, we've all watched, perhaps through our fingers, pictures on Dragon's Den where everything seems to be going wrong for the person trying to persuade you to invest your hard earned cash in their business. How do you feel when they're failing?

Presenter6:33

I feel different things depending on how and why they're failing. So I've had businesses that come into the den who have been really honest, have found some of the questions difficult, and some of them are sort of fair do's. I understand why you don't know that. So they can make me feel uncomfortable. And actually, some of those pictures last three hours. So there's a lot more help given, you know, some prompts given and a lot more space given than probably the viewers see. But the ones that really, really I don't feel bad at all about are the ones who are trying to pull the wool over our eyes or being arrogant or I'll show you dragons. And those I think, come on, guys, you've got an amazing opportunity and this is what you're going to do with it.

Presenter7:15

What's the secret to getting a pitch right, then?

Presenter7:18

I'm sure it's different for different dragons. I don't mind if a pitch is not pitch perfect. And even if they forget something, because it's deep within them and they really properly understand, it's not just learnt, they live it, that actually they can pull an answer out that can help us understand the business. So they've kind of got heart. That's what makes a good pitch for me. It's honest, it's got heart, and they can demonstrate a real understanding of their business, even if they can't quite get it right putting it across. You've been there 15 years now, Series 3, I think you joined. Yes, and you've invested almost £5 million over those years as a dragon. Have you received a good return?

Deborah Meaden7:48

Yeah.

Presenter7:55

Yes, I have. It's actually my first business I ever invested in. They've returned all of my money and I'm still invested in them. So some businesses you kind of stay with for life. Some businesses are quick turnarounds. Some businesses are in the middle of their growth. Some of the businesses that I invested in two or three years ago are on a stratospheric journey, but they haven't actually exited yet. But certainly, I'm on the upside. It's wonderful to see people's lives change. And yes, of course, the finances are fantastic. But you ask most successful entrepreneurs who have actually got enough money in the bank not to do it anymore why they do it. And it's because they like to see these little C's grow into something huge. Deborah, we've got to make way for your second disc today. What's it going to be? Well, I actually left school really, really early and I went to Brighton to study business. I actually.

Presenter8:46

Did very little business studying. Yeah, there's a laugh there. That requires further exploration. Quite a lot of dancing. And this is the piece of music that really reminds me of those days and going to the Curtain Club, which was the cool club in Brighton at the time. When I hear it, I can see all of the friends that I know and the dancing and the atmosphere. So it takes me right back. It is a piece of music by Gil Scott Heron called The Bottle.

Speaker 28:49

Yeah, there's a laugh there that that requires further exploration.

Deborah Meaden9:15

You see that black boy over there running scared? His old man in a bottom

Speaker 39:24

He done quit in 95, he drank full time and now he's living in a parlour.

Deborah Meaden9:33

See that black boy over there running scared. His old man got a problem And this is a bad one.

Speaker 29:38

Yes

Speaker 29:40

I didn't

Deborah Meaden9:40

None bond of damping every

Speaker 39:42

Thanks all women away from bottom.

Presenter9:47

The Bottle by Gil Scott Heron and Brian Jackson. So, Deborah Meaden, why the rush to leave school? By the time I was 11, I'd been to three boarding schools for very short periods of time. I found it very restrictive. I even then was fiercely independent. And I think it switched me off school. And I had always known that I wanted my own business. And when I spoke to people about careers, it was all about, you know, are you going to be a nurse? Are you going to be a doctor? It was a kind of profession. I kept saying, no, I want to be in business. I didn't see that school or university was going to get me any closer. And I just couldn't wait to get on with it, really. And where was that coming from? You didn't want to work for anyone else. You wanted your own business from childhood, really. What was firing that, do you think? I instinctively knew that if I wanted to build my own life, probably the best way of doing that was to have my own business. But I'd also had examples of, you know, my mother who for a while was on her own. She left my father when we were absolutely tiny. She was just 22, I think, wasn't she? When she was in the middle of the year, when she wasn't sure, she was 22 with two young daughters. And it's tough, and no real benefit system. She just had to get out and make our lives better.

Deborah Meaden10:53

Yeah, when she was

Presenter11:03

Now I understand when I went to boarding school when I was seven, I was deeply hurt. You know, why am I being sent away? But of course, now I understand that it was my mother. By that time, she'd met my father, but it was their version of giving us stability. You know, so she met and married, and it was just dad to you, Brian, yes, when you were about seven, and that was when you went to school. Was that because they had started their business and that was kind of seasonal, working in holiday parks and that kind of thing? Well, they'd actually started two businesses. You know, this is what I mean about being opportunistic. So we were one of the first people to have kiddies' rides at the Lions of Longleat when Lord Bath was alive. My father was running that, and my mother was working at Butlin's running a prize bingo. So that's what I mean by stability. To build our life, they had to make sacrifices. And I think against that background, a decision for us to go to boarding school was the right one. Like I say, I didn't understand it at the time, but I certainly do now.

Deborah Meaden11:16

You know?

Deborah Meaden11:28

Yeah.

Presenter11:57

Yeah, tell me a little bit more about your dad then, Brian. He's younger than my mother. It's actually interesting. We've all married younger men. But he was younger than my mother. And at the age of 27 or 28, he married my mother, who was, I think, probably in her early 30s at the time, and took on these two daughters. That's quite a thing to do. And we were a handful, you know. It wasn't easy. So he's got lions all day and then you guys at night. Absolutely. Absolutely. But he never flinched. We'd had our mum to ourselves for a while and I think we gave him a pretty rough time. Thank you very much for describing as my father because occasionally he has been described as my stepfather and it makes me flinch because he is the man who is my father. Deborah, it's time for your third choice today. What are we going to hear? I went off to Italy when I set up my first business and I was driving backwards and forwards to Italy on a regular basis. I must have done it a dozen times. And this was a piece of music that I could play over and over. It was actually off an album that I could play over and over and over. But this one in particular struck home because I was already concerned about the environment and what we were doing to our planet. And this piece of music completely

Presenter13:12

Held it all together for me. So it's Marvin Gaye and it's Mercy, Mercy, Me.

Speaker 213:19

Nursing, nursing me.

Speaker 213:24

All things ain't what they used to be now

Speaker 213:29

Wait.

Presenter13:30

Where did all the blooms get?

Speaker 213:31

Uh

Presenter13:31

Let's go.

Presenter13:33

Horizon is the wind that blows From the north and south and you see Woah, mercy, mercy

Speaker 213:43

Uh

Speaker 213:44

All things ain't what they used to be

Presenter13:49

Marvin Gaye and Mercy Mercy Mead. So Deborah Meaden, you started your first business when you were still in your teens, 19, and you were importing glass and ceramics from Italy, where you were living at the time, to high-end stores here in the UK. I mean, quite daring, quite ambitious for a teenager. How did you make that happen? I go to burst that particular bubble because what actually happened is that I had an ex-boyfriend who moved over to Italy and I think I might have followed him whether he liked it or I didn't.

Presenter14:20

Actually, the real truth is that I did have an ex-boyfriend who moved over to Italy. We were still in communication. I was thinking, if I don't change something in my life, nothing's going to happen. I actually believe this in life. You know, if you want your life to change, then you've got to change something because it's amazing how even changing a little thing, you know, changes your path. So I didn't really have a plan. I just thought, I'm going to go over to Italy and I'm going to see what comes of that. I had a spare day and I went along to an exhibition to look at these lovely products. And I thought, I know what I'll do. I'll ask those people if they've got an agent in the UK and I'll bring them back to the UK. See, that's the leap, that's it.

Presenter14:56

Everyone would take, isn't it? Going to Italy for a boy, can imagine that. Going to a Fiera and checking out some glassware. Yes. The bit where you then go, I wonder if there's an agent who can help me start and I mean

Presenter15:10

To be fair, I was running out of money by then, so I was kind of thinking I'm gonna have to do something about this. And that confidence that you had, what was that born of? Was that just who you were as a person, or was that you know the confidence of youth where it's kind of coming from inexperience, you know? Well, I think it's partly the confidence of youth because I don't think at that point I knew you couldn't do that or you shouldn't do that. You know, there was never a moment of thinking, oh, should I, shouldn't I? Is this the done thing? Absolutely. It was just, look, I want to, oh, there's an idea, let's go and make it happen. And I don't know if you're born with confidence or simply because I had seen a mother in very, very tough times who built a good life out of it. And once you've seen that, it doesn't feel so scary. Ultimately, that first Italian importing business venture failed. And how did you deal with that? It was my first lesson in you need to spend your time on the right things because I had contracts with these companies. But what actually happened is I started seeing the products appear in direct into Harvey Nichols and Howard's and

Deborah Meaden15:13

Okay.

Deborah Meaden15:35

Is this the dung?

Deborah Meaden15:36

It was just

Presenter16:11

All of the places that I'd introduced them to. And for a minute, I thought, I'm not having this, I'm going for it. And then I thought, actually, you know, life is too short. So they'd cut you out? They'd cut me out. But life is too short. I can spend the next year fighting them, or I can take this as a lesson learnt. You ended up joining your mum and dad's family business, which at that point was running amusement arcades in holiday parks. And you discovered a knack for calling the bingo. I actually ran the prize bingo, and that taught me more than anything. I mean, it taught me at the right stage in my life, but being in direct contact with a customer who is quite prepared to tell you whether they're happy or they're not happy, managing the team. Creating the right atmosphere, making sure I was going the right speed, not too fast, not too slow, making sure I recognized people. So the people who would come back year on year. Yeah, we would be the first place they would go and I would remember them. Hello, how are you? Is your daughter with you? And just watching the effect that has, that has stayed with me forever.

Deborah Meaden17:02

See the people

Deborah Meaden17:04

Uh

Presenter17:15

Deborah, it's time for your next piece of music. Disc number four. What have you got for us?

Presenter17:19

Well, I had a little sort of purple patch with my older sister Gail. There's only two years between us. And we really didn't like each other when we were young. But when I was about twenty, twenty-one, we happened to be at the same place at the same time and we suddenly discovered we were best friends. And we used to work really, really hard. We were in Minehead at the time and drive up to Bristol after work and go to nightclubs. Nightclubs feature quite a lot in this

Presenter17:50

And this is a piece of music that absolutely reminds me of that time, and it's Leon Haywood. Don't push it, don't force it.

Speaker 217:58

Patience isn't my best virtue But I'm in the mood.

Speaker 318:03

Ooh for love.

Speaker 318:07

Can't control my passion.

Speaker 218:11

I wanna love you all over. Uh

Presenter18:15

Uh

Speaker 218:15

Enforce it maybe.

Presenter18:16

Leon Hayward, don't push it, don't force it. So, Deborah Meadhan, you were working in the family business and those can be complex, can't they? Family businesses, the dynamics. What was that like for you and your parents? Could you be Deborah the businesswoman when you were at work rather than Deborah the daughter?

Presenter18:43

I had a really short patch before I went to Italy of working for my parents and I was still definitely Deborah the daughter that didn't tidy her room up. I think what was really important is I had been away and I had had my own experiences and actually when they asked whether I would come back into the business, they understood I had other options and they didn't invite me back as a daughter. They invited me back because they needed somebody to run that business and they said, look, we're about to recruit. Is it something you're interested in? So the whole thing was treated in an arm's length fashion. I think that's why it worked for us. How old were you at that point? 23. Okay, so early 20s. Early 20s. And all of you, you know, your parents and you are all going into this as a professional only relationship.

Deborah Meaden19:23

Daddy

Presenter19:30

Absolutely. And understanding that the business was business, and you look after the business, and the business looks after the family. But at work, I worked for my parents. That was it. You know, if I didn't do a good job, then my job was on the line. Doesn't mean to say there weren't moments when a little bit of you thinks, I'm your daughter. Really? Do I have to? And I think the lovely thing is that we are a very close family. We have been through some ups and downs. I mean, you know, I bought the business from them. We had two different sets of advisors. So he said, each party had your own advisors. Absolutely. Were you playing hardball then? Well, look, they wanted the highest price, and I wanted to pay the lowest price. And they were also talking to other buyers. It wasn't like a dead cert. So I was pitching against other people who were looking to buy the business. Really? Absolutely. And how much money was at stake in those little lots? Many, many, many, many, many, as many, many as you like to say, millions. And I didn't have them. So I was absolutely hocked up to the eyeballs. We'd better have your next disc if you wouldn't mind, Deborah. What is it?

Deborah Meaden19:59

It got heated.

Deborah Meaden20:02

It's a

Deborah Meaden20:04

Yeah.

Deborah Meaden20:15

Really?

Deborah Meaden20:18

And many

Deborah Meaden20:23

Millions

Presenter20:31

When I was running the prize bingo and I met my husband, I was a little alarmed at Paul's musical taste, to be perfectly honest. He didn't like any of the music that I liked, but I remember hearing Simply Read and Money's Too Tight to Mention and saying that band are going to be huge. That is a great take on the original. And he said, Oh, that was their original. I said, Oh, yes. The original is by the Valentine Brothers. Money's Too Tight to Mention. And that's my next piece of music.

Presenter21:03

From where

Presenter21:04

Let's do

Presenter21:06

My kids on me brand new shoes

Presenter21:10

So I went to the bank to see what they would do. They said, son, look like bad luck's got a hold on you.

Speaker 321:18

Money's too tight to mention Achieking is not an hardware expension. Yeah.

Presenter21:27

Money's too tight to mention

Presenter21:32

The Valentine Brothers and Money's Too Tight to Mention. The perfect choice for the den, Deborah Maiden. Thank you. So, Deborah, you've said you don't need to take my gender into account. I'm in business, full stop. Do not think of yourself as I'm a woman in business. Just do your thing. Just be good at it. Now, we often hear about the underrepresentation of women in business. Are you saying that gender isn't worth thinking about at all?

Presenter21:56

No, I guess my message is more about if I take my gender into account, it clearly signals to somebody else that they need to take my gender into account.

Speaker 222:06

Uh

Presenter22:06

But it is of no consequence and owning your own business is a very good place to be for women because your consumer doesn't care.

Speaker 222:06

But it

Presenter22:14

What gender you are. They just care about your product or your service that you're delivering. You know, I've thought long and hard because I'm in a really good position to be able to encourage women into business, but I don't think it's helpful to carry my gender around. And are you also then saying that, you know, it's not the job of women in the business world to solve their own underrepresentation? Like, they just need to crack on, and other people need to fix that. No, I don't. I actually do think it's our job to show that there is a place for people in business, but often that can just mean showing people that business is a good place for women to be in. That's the path that I've chosen to do. You know, I've sat for a long time, I was the only woman in the den. One day I hope that it could well be there's only one man in the den, and it kind of doesn't matter because it doesn't matter what the gender mix is. And what about the structural issues then? Would you have a view on increasing diversity in boardrooms, for example? Yes, I sometimes think that whilst I intrinsically don't believe in quota, and obviously the place that we do need to go is purely and simply that people are there on value. And when that happens, you know, everybody will be represented because everybody has their value to add. But I also do think that sometimes you have to intervene to make that happen because otherwise, if people look into a boardroom and they don't see anybody that looks like them, then it can be a fearful place for them to go. So I do think intervention can play its part. Deborah, it's time for your next piece of music today. What is it and why have you chosen it? Paul and I spent quite a lot of time traveling around Central and South America. And whilst I love the music, I think I must have heard Simon and Garfunkel's El Condora Passa in 300 different ways. It'll be a different instrument, it'll be a different time, it will be unrecognizable, it will be exactly like Simon and Garfunkel. So I can't think of South America without Simon and Garfunkel's El Condora Passa running through my brain. So that's my next record.

Deborah Meaden24:24

Ever be inspired?

Deborah Meaden24:27

I stay up.

Deborah Meaden24:30

Yeah.

Speaker 224:30

Yes, I would.

Speaker 224:33

If I could.

Speaker 224:36

My surely would.

Speaker 224:44

I'd rather be a hammer than a nail

Speaker 224:49

Yes, I

Deborah Meaden24:52

If I only could, I'd show you.

Presenter24:58

Simon and Garfunkel El Condo Passa. Deborah, you've got a very high profile on social media and our listeners will not be surprised to hear, if they haven't seen you there, that you have a pretty no nonsense voice on the platform. And among other things, you've used that to talk about your concerns about Brexit. How has it impacted your businesses?

Presenter25:19

Well, I think we're still learning how it's impacting businesses, but we've been in a state of flux because from the minute the vote happened, businesses haven't really known what Brexit would look like. And I actually did a whole piece on social media before we actually left the EU saying, guys, this thing about get Brexit done, forget it. If you think leaving is the end of it, we're going to enter years and years of negotiating, working out what our relationship's going to look like. And for business, that's really bad news. What it's meant for my business is all of them, anybody trading with the EU has been disrupted, some of them fatally. Supply issues are a big problem, staff issues are a big problem, and then overlay that with a pandemic. It's tough. Luckily, entrepreneurs tend to seize those challenges, but a lot of them have been unnecessary. And I just think what a better place we would all be in if we just didn't have that thrown into the path.

Presenter26:18

Are there any advantages for businesses now that we're outside the European trading area? You said luckily entrepreneurs seize advantages. You see that happening? Well, there will be, but we're in very, very early days. You know, we're still working the relationships out, and of course, there'll be opportunities. I do see that some of the environmental issues, if we seize them, you know, there's some really good stuff happening. For example, some of the new farming policies, but the government needs to support the transition. You can't just say we're going to change the way we do things and it's over to you to bear the brunt of this, because a lot of businesses, a lot of farmers, they won't survive. There's some great policies, but they need support to get there. We need to mean it. You know, at the moment, I just still hear sound bites. I need to see action.

Deborah Meaden26:42

Adam

Presenter27:07

It's time for your seventh choice to day, Deborah. What are we going to hear?

Presenter27:11

Well, I was incredibly lucky. When we had the holiday parts, my grandfather was in Burma. So my grandfather was in Burma and we organised a Burma star reunion for people who had actually been in Burma and their families. So he was fighting out there? He was fighting out there. And we organised these reunions and we also had Royal Bush's Legion reunions, which meant for two weeks of the year, our parks were full of service people. And I would always go down and mix with them. And I cannot tell you how honoured and lucky I was.

Deborah Meaden27:24

He was fine.

Presenter27:40

I was to have experienced that because some of the people I met there and you would see these tiny wizened people and they would never talk about their heroism, but they would always point somebody across the room and they would say, See that man over there? Bravest man I ever knew. Save the life of, you know, and they would tell this story. And I'd go and I'd talk to that person over there. And they would say, You see them over there? Bravest people I ever knew. And I heard the most amazing things. I used to go down for a Sunday service and one of the hymns we would always sing is I vow to thee my country. And I'm not a religious person, but I am a spiritual person. And I still can't listen to Jupiter from half planets without welling up, to be honest.

Presenter30:22

Jupiter from Holst's Planet Suite performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Presenter30:30

So, Deborah Meadan, the investor's life is very different from the standard nine to five, I think, and different from running your own business, too. Is it a work-life balance that you're happy with, or is there some sort of retirement plan that kicks in one day? Until the day I feel like I'm not on my A game, you know, I think that's what will stop me when I feel I'm not adding value. But until that day, why would I want to stop something that I absolutely love? You're still having fun, it sounds like. Absolutely.

Deborah Meaden30:43

Oh.

Deborah Meaden30:49

Mm.

Presenter31:01

Of course you'll have some time to put your feet up on the island. Is it possible that you'll come up with a new business idea there? Very likely, whether or not I'll have the tools to implement it. And of course business is not just about the idea. It's about the implementation and the market. And I think the market might be quite small in the desert island.

Presenter31:20

It's me, I'll be the market.

Presenter31:23

We're going to let you play one more track though before you go. What's going to be your final selection today?

Presenter31:29

Well, th thank you to Desert Islandists for making me think about this because we are lucky

Presenter31:36

in the country we're born and the people we're born to.

Presenter31:40

Well, we can build our lives through that, but I am incredibly thankful for the life that I've had and am having. I've got wonderful parents. My sisters are my best friends. Emma, Cass, Gale, are my best friends. I got to find the person in the world that I could marry and happily spend the rest of my life with. And I get to do the thing that I absolutely love in terms of investing in businesses and meeting all of these creative people. And it's easy to say it isn't the money when you've got money. I completely get that. But when I think about the things that I'm thankful for,

Presenter32:17

Money doesn't come onto that list, you know, and there's a wonderful song. I love it, I love it just for the song.

Presenter32:26

But I also love it because it reminds me of something that I am on a daily basis, and that is I am thankful for what I've got. So it's William Devaughan. Be thankful for what you've got.

Deborah Meaden32:38

Yes, goodbye. Pooh

Deborah Meaden32:43

For what you got

Deborah Meaden32:47

Though you may not try

Deborah Meaden32:52

A grey big cat like diamond in the back, sun through the top, digging in the sink with a gangster ring, gangster white ball.

Deborah Meaden33:02

T V and tellers in the back

Presenter33:08

William Devaughan, and be thankful for what you've got. So, Deborah Meaden, I'm sending you away to the island. You'll have three books with you: the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one of your own choosing. What will that be?

Presenter33:20

During lockdown, Paul and I have been every day turning the pages of my book that I would choose. And it's History of the World in 100 Objects. So we would turn the pages, we'd look at the object, we'd read about it, and out of that would spring so much conversation and so much thought about the world as it has been. And it's sort of hopeful when you look about what we were doing thousands of years ago, you know, and it's hopeful that we will carry on being creative and amazing into the future. So my book is A History of the World in 100 Objects. You can also select a luxury, something to make your time on the island more bearable. I absolutely can't draw and I would love to draw and I'm guessing on the island that I would have an awful lot of time to practice. So I would like, and I'd like to cheat here a bit, I'd like a sketchbook and a pencil. Oh, we can do that, I think we can do that. Excellent. Sketchbook and a pencil. We'll even throw in a sharpener. And finally, which one of these discs would you save above the others if you had to?

Deborah Meaden34:10

Mm.

Presenter34:25

William De Bourn, be thankful for what you've got. Because it would prompt.

Presenter34:31

Me thinking about things, you know, and looking for things on the island that make my life better.

Presenter34:39

Deborah Meaden, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it.

Presenter34:58

Hello, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Deborah, and I hope she's enjoying her drawing.

Presenter35:03

We've cast away many entrepreneurs, including Duncan Bannertyne, Dame Stephanie Shirley, and Sir Richard Branson, and you can hear their programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or on our programme website. Join me next time when I'll be talking to the philosopher Michael Sandell.

Speaker 235:31

That's the moment it hit me. I'm like, oh my gosh, I think I'm in a cult.

Deborah Meaden35:35

I used to think to myself, these people are mad, but until I realized that I'm mad as well.

Speaker 335:41

I'm Paris Lees, and this is the flip side, from BBC Radio 4.

Speaker 335:47

In each episode, I tell two stories from opposite sides of the coin, and use science to ask questions about elements of the human experience that we sometimes take for granted. I know that we're genetically related, but in my mind I don't have the feeling that we are necessarily kin.

Presenter36:04

My dad said, You know that we love you, and I am your father, but.

Speaker 336:10

Subscribe to the flip side with me, Paris Lees, on BBC Sounds.