Joan Hammond

Speaker 10:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than on the original broadcast. The presenter is Roy Plomley. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:32

On our desert island this week is the owner of one of the best loved singing voices in the British Commonwealth, Joan Hammond.

Presenter0:39

Joan, as consolation for being on a desert island, what would you be happiest to have got away from?

Joan Hammond0:45

Noise of traffic.

Presenter0:49

You prefer the noise of the surface.

Joan Hammond0:49

Okay.

Joan Hammond0:50

Yes, I'm afraid I do love being by the sea and away from what I call the rush and the bustle of modern life.

Joan Hammond1:01

the aeroplanes and all the things that were connected with my travelling days.

Presenter1:07

You'll be longing for an aeroplane when you get on that island.

Joan Hammond1:09

Yes, that could be.

Presenter1:12

How did you set about choosing this miserable allowance of eight records to take with you? Are you choosing nostalgically? Are you looking back? Is it music to cheer you up?

Joan Hammond1:21

Yes, you have really covered about all that I have been thinking of while making this choice.

Joan Hammond1:28

Uh nostalgia comes into it and

Joan Hammond1:32

Things that will keep me naughty, something that will make me a little pensive.

Presenter1:37

Watch the first one.

Joan Hammond1:39

The first one is Madame Butterfly's entrance.

Joan Hammond1:44

And

Joan Hammond1:45

Believe me, I don't like hearing myself sing. That's going to be rather painful out there, but it's not that. I want to recapture.

Joan Hammond1:54

Something that happened.

Joan Hammond1:56

See, I did the role of butterfly.

Joan Hammond1:58

Oh, over two hundred times.

Joan Hammond2:00

And I've chosen this particular record because of my first appearance in the opera. And I will always laugh at myself. And I laughed every time I sang the title role. Because in Australia...

Joan Hammond2:14

I was on in the chorus, one of the relatives and little friends of Madam Butterfly, and in those days the weed wasn't properly put on, and there was the bum on top, and I was fanning myself.

Joan Hammond2:27

You know, gangl busily under these cherry trees.

Joan Hammond2:30

And I felt a cold draught round my head and then I saw them looking at me and giggling and I heard

Joan Hammond2:36

Coming from the wings?

Joan Hammond2:38

And I suddenly turned round and there was my wig stuck through one of these false twigs of a cherry tree. And I rushed off stage and the producer was there and he stood in the wings and he said, God blind me, Hammond, can't you keep your ruddy roof on?

Joan Hammond2:54

That's what I'll be thinking about.

Presenter2:54

And that's why

Presenter2:56

I hammered that to go back and catch your wig.

Joan Hammond2:58

Can I have this one?

Presenter3:00

Well, let's listen to the Edric part of mine.

Speaker 43:06

Yeah.

Speaker 43:13

I'll make you more.

Presenter4:02

The entrance of butterfly. What's your second disc?

Joan Hammond4:06

My second one

Joan Hammond4:08

Is the

Joan Hammond4:09

Piano Concerto, The Last Movement, by Saint Son.

Presenter4:13

Yeah.

Joan Hammond4:15

This I'm taking for a very special reason because it bubbles along. It's just full of life and of course this is full of notes.

Joan Hammond4:25

I own

Joan Hammond4:27

sit in amazement when I hear it played.

Joan Hammond4:29

And this, I know, will give me immeasurable pleasure just sitting on the sand and listening to someone else working so hard that it really is a joy.

Presenter5:35

A closing passage of the Saint-Sans fifth piano concerto with Jeanne-Marie Darret as senatorist. Joan, I've been reading your new book, A Voice of Life, and I've always thought of you as an Australian, but in fact you're a New Zealander.

Joan Hammond5:52

Uh, three months' worth, really.

Presenter5:54

But this is a surprise.

Joan Hammond5:56

And yes, it happened that my parents were on their way from London to Australia.

Joan Hammond6:02

And in those days ships weren't very, uh, I suppose, um, good at keeping tools.

Joan Hammond6:08

their timing because of storms and delays and they were delayed anyhow and they arrived in New Zealand and my father carried on to Sydney and left poor mother there with two young babies already and I was en route and nearly came en route. And so, um, I was born there and after about three or four months we went

Joan Hammond6:27

On to Sydney to join my father.

Presenter6:28

That's where you will broadcast.

Joan Hammond6:30

Yeah.

Presenter6:31

As a youngster you participated in a lot of sport and all kinds of sports.

Joan Hammond6:35

Yeah, any ball game, in fact any game.

Presenter6:38

Yeah.

Joan Hammond6:39

I I love sport and uh I love music. It's rather an odd combination, I think, but it it just happened that they were my two great loves.

Presenter6:48

Were your parents musical?

Joan Hammond6:50

No, I can't really say. So mother told me that she had a lovely voice and um she loved singing, I know that. And she was most anxious for me to become a singer. She always said she came for that and wanted it to happen.

Presenter7:03

And pod?

Joan Hammond7:03

Father, he did tell me, but I've never believed him. He told me that he was in St. Paul's Choir on one, I don't know, some occasion. But I had my grave doubts about this.

Presenter7:16

Where did you start it?

Joan Hammond7:18

In Sydney at the Conservatorium of Music.

Presenter7:21

And after that you went into that opera company where you left your wig hanging over

Joan Hammond7:25

Yes, that's correct.

Presenter7:27

Yeah.

Joan Hammond7:28

Is that quite right?

Presenter7:29

At this time you were a champion golfer too. You won the New South Wales Women's Championship, junior and also senior.

Joan Hammond7:36

Yeah.

Joan Hammond7:37

It was a very full time. I was leading a very full life.

Presenter7:42

And what was the singing g engagement that first brought you into the limelight?

Joan Hammond7:46

I sang at uh an afternoon tea at which the government

Joan Hammond7:53

Wife was attending.

Joan Hammond7:55

My dear wonderful fairy godmother Lady Gowrie.

Joan Hammond7:58

Um she was then Lady Horriven.

Joan Hammond8:01

And

Joan Hammond8:02

She heard me.

Joan Hammond8:03

and spoke to everybody at dinners and functions so I heard later and said, look, I've heard a voice and this girl must be sent abroad.

Joan Hammond8:12

And of course, no one knew really of me. I'm in a little conservatorium, of course, and in a very small circle. I was known to be singing a little here and there.

Joan Hammond8:22

But I didn't have a

Joan Hammond8:25

big name at all, only in golf.

Joan Hammond8:28

And sport, everybody knew me as the golfer, but no one knew me at all as the singer, and I can really say that it was through Lady Gowrie that I had my first big grade.

Presenter8:38

Mm-hmm. You can't wait. You can't give it

Joan Hammond8:40

I went uh straight from Sydney to Vienna.

Presenter8:43

Movement.

Presenter8:44

Well, let's break off there and have your third record. Watch that.

Joan Hammond8:48

My third record is going to be the Méditation from Thailand.

Presenter9:50

The meditation from Thai.

Presenter9:53

Violin Solo by Roger Hombre with the Orchestra of the Paris Opera. So, John, you came to Europe to study, which ruined your golf career.

Speaker 410:02

Uh

Presenter10:02

Right.

Presenter10:03

And you came to Vienna. What was your first European game?

Joan Hammond10:07

Um I have the phone topper in Vienna.

Presenter10:10

He asked me

Joan Hammond10:10

That's where Richard Toller began his career.

Joan Hammond10:13

and the first opera was Paliacci Neda.

Presenter10:17

Yeah.

Joan Hammond10:17

Olled by Marta.

Presenter10:19

And your British debut?

Joan Hammond10:21

That came in nineteen thirty eight with Sir Thomas Beecham and The Messiah.

Presenter10:26

Now you had a successful operatic career opening up in Vienna. You were very nearly caught there by the outbreak of war.

Joan Hammond10:32

Yes, I'm I think that was one of my luckiest uh moments because, oh, I should have naturally hated being caught there.

Joan Hammond10:42

I never settled in Vienna. It wasn't a city that greatly appealed to me and I did love London because I'd come over in 1937 for a quick visit.

Joan Hammond10:54

Anyhow, I had no idea of the political situation because I wasn't interested in politics and

Joan Hammond11:00

Everybody here said, look, you can't go back. This is ridiculous. The thing's going to blow up soon.

Joan Hammond11:06

And dear old Sir Henry Wood had booked me to sing at the promenade season, and that's why I had come over.

Joan Hammond11:13

And Vienna sent me telegrams saying you're due back for rehearsals and they were rightly getting rather annoyed with me for delaying my return.

Joan Hammond11:22

But I was more than thankful that I had naturally

Presenter11:26

Yeah.

Joan Hammond11:27

Of course, another career began in a way another type of career.

Presenter11:27

Um

Presenter11:32

And the following year you went to the Skirla Milan, and the same thing nearly happened to you when Italy came into the war. You nearly got caught first.

Joan Hammond11:40

Yes. I seemed to be on the brink of being caught in the enemy camp. And there, of course, I had begun, and right up to almost the time of my appearance at the Scala Milan,

Joan Hammond11:54

when I was called in and told what the situation was and it was grim and they just said advised me that I should go and see.

Joan Hammond12:04

We need consumers and get out as quickly as possible.

Presenter12:08

Back in Britain, did you find there was plenty of work for him?

Joan Hammond12:11

None at all.

Joan Hammond12:13

Things just stopped completely in the classical world.

Presenter12:16

Yeah.

Speaker 412:16

Uh

Joan Hammond12:17

Don't forget I was just beginning anyhow and I had a few uh uh very nice notices and successes through Sir Thomas and through uh the BBC, in fact with the Stanford Robinson.

Joan Hammond12:30

I suppose I was among the the many that were stranded in more.

Joan Hammond12:36

Ways than one.

Presenter12:37

When did you start making records?

Joan Hammond12:39

The end of 1941

Joan Hammond12:41

Uh

Presenter12:42

I believe the first records you made were bombed, they were never issued.

Joan Hammond12:45

Yeah.

Joan Hammond12:46

Um that was the the little

Joan Hammond12:48

Eric Coates, Greenhills of Somerset, and Gerald Moore was the accompanist. And we were very disappointed about that. You know, it was just a complete wipeout.

Presenter12:59

Yeah.

Presenter13:00

And in your spare time you you drive an avalid.

Joan Hammond13:02

Yeah, in my spare time.

Presenter13:05

Well, let's break off your few fortress will work that to me.

Joan Hammond13:08

Well, I well, that's the operative word, at the well.

Joan Hammond13:13

And again

Joan Hammond13:15

I I don't like saying it, but of course I'm singing it.

Joan Hammond13:19

Uh would dear Ivan Newton at the piano?

Joan Hammond13:23

I'm taking this one because

Joan Hammond13:26

I should like to think that I might find a well somewhere on that island, that wretched island, and I should...

Joan Hammond13:34

Also have many, many happy memories of singing this particular song. It it's so bright, it it it makes me laugh anyhow because I laugh in it and during the recording I very nearly stopped because I thought the laugh had come over a little too much and Ivor had fucked a note.

Joan Hammond13:52

And

Joan Hammond13:54

Instead I went on and it proved to be the best master so that's how we kept it in.

Joan Hammond13:59

But

Joan Hammond14:00

It was uh

Joan Hammond14:02

A joyous song to sing and I had so many requests for it.

Joan Hammond14:08

And for many reasons, but particularly because I will be thirsty out uh on the island. I know I will. I'll have a great thirst. So at the will it must be.

Speaker 414:19

When the two sisters go to fetch water, they come to this spot and they smile.

Speaker 414:28

Must be aware of somebody who stands behind the trees whenever they go to fetch war

Speaker 414:39

The two sisters whisper to each other when they pass this spot they must have guest for secret of that somebody who stands behind the trees whenever they go to fit war

Speaker 114:43

Yeah.

Speaker 415:00

Could just work solidly.

Speaker 415:04

And water spills when they reach this mark.

Speaker 415:08

They must have found out that somebody's heart is fainting.

Presenter15:16

At the well with Ivan Newton at the piano. Now, the war was over. Your international career could really get going. Where did you go first to Australia, didn't you?

Joan Hammond15:25

Yeah.

Presenter15:26

And this was a a triumphal tour.

Joan Hammond15:29

Not from my point of view, far from it.

Presenter15:32

Why, it was a great success wherever you went.

Joan Hammond15:34

I don't think so. I know I didn't think well. Uh I didn't do justice to the

Joan Hammond15:41

The music and to myself.

Joan Hammond15:43

Because

Joan Hammond15:44

I really should have had a good break after the war. A holiday.

Joan Hammond15:49

I went out there and I was quite unprepared for the

Joan Hammond15:53

Tremendous publicity. I had no idea, very naïve about this, that I had become popular.

Joan Hammond16:00

Through my recordings.

Joan Hammond16:02

The press

Joan Hammond16:04

Parties.

Joan Hammond16:06

all of which I'm unaccustomed to.

Joan Hammond16:08

Because as you know here we just go straight to a a city, you you perform and you perhaps see the organization, but after that you go off.

Joan Hammond16:17

But up there they love the parties, they love speeches and

Joan Hammond16:21

This really was very tiring.

Joan Hammond16:24

So I was singing

Joan Hammond16:26

relying on technique which also I didn't have to that extent in those days and it resulted in what I call one of the crossroads of my career.

Joan Hammond16:36

When I came back I just had to stop singing and cancel everything and get my voice right again.

Presenter16:42

But quite soon you were you were traveling again.

Joan Hammond16:44

Oh yes, yes, Manza. Yes, I was I

Joan Hammond16:49

Went back to Vienna.

Joan Hammond16:51

I think that was one of my first engagements when I got myself and felt fit enough, you know, to work.

Presenter16:56

Mm-hmm.

Joan Hammond16:56

And I

Joan Hammond16:58

What the first British had to go back.

Presenter17:00

Yes, and we've since then we've just about traveled the world.

Presenter17:04

And you'd already sung with the Sergelus Wells Company. You made your debut at Covent Garden. What was the first opera you did there?

Joan Hammond17:11

Notrogatore.

Presenter17:12

You were the first British soprano to sing in Russian opera in Russia.

Presenter17:18

In Russian.

Joan Hammond17:19

Yeah.

Joan Hammond17:20

That was in uh Eugenomym. I had to study the Russian language, which looked rather like Chinese when I first

Presenter17:28

Uh

Joan Hammond17:28

So but score.

Presenter17:28

You s you sang at the Bolshoy in in Moscow?

Joan Hammond17:31

And Moscow and the Marinsky and Menagram.

Presenter17:35

Mm-hmm.

Presenter17:36

And of course you have a gilded disc.

Joan Hammond17:39

Yeah.

Speaker 417:39

Uh

Joan Hammond17:41

Yes.

Presenter17:42

I believe you are the only non-pop lady ever to have a ghost.

Joan Hammond17:45

Maybe one.

Joan Hammond17:48

I believe I am. That that was a complete surprise. I had no idea. No idea at all that uh the sale of that

Joan Hammond17:57

Dear little Aria had crept up to that amount of f fail.

Presenter18:01

Oh, I glove it not.

Joan Hammond18:02

Yeah.

Presenter18:03

Now because of of an illness you decided to retire a few years ago.

Joan Hammond18:06

It was enforced upon me uh before I could make the decision.

Presenter18:10

Yeah.

Presenter18:11

Let's have record number five.

Joan Hammond18:13

Number five, world is time, and it's going to be the

Joan Hammond18:18

Rec Menanoff, number two concerto.

Presenter19:20

An excerpt from the second movement of Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto.

Presenter19:24

Julius captioned the soloist with the London Tibetor.

Presenter19:28

You've been in London John launching your book and giving some masterclasses at the London Opera Centre.

Presenter19:34

You are living now in Australia.

Joan Hammond19:35

Yeah.

Presenter19:36

How do you spend your time?

Joan Hammond19:38

I write a lot and I read a lot.

Joan Hammond19:41

And I of course doing quite a bit of sailing.

Presenter19:44

Yeah.

Joan Hammond19:44

Yachting?

Joan Hammond19:46

and gulping every now and then.

Presenter19:48

Good.

Joan Hammond19:48

Which is wonderful for me and seeing a lot of my golfing friends of old.

Joan Hammond19:54

I have a very full life.

Presenter19:56

Let's have a record number six.

Joan Hammond19:58

This time it's the beating pastor, Didn't we Beethoven?

Presenter20:02

Mm. Which part of it?

Joan Hammond20:04

Right at the end.

Presenter20:05

I'll keep the store.

Joan Hammond20:06

Well, I've obviously been in the storm because I've been shipwrecked.

Joan Hammond20:11

And now I just want to sit and think, watch the horizon.

Joan Hammond20:17

And

Joan Hammond20:18

This lovely, lovely ending to the great symphony.

Joan Hammond20:23

Will just put me at peace with the world.

Presenter21:25

An excerpt from Beethoven's Hasbro Symphony.

Presenter21:29

Conducted by Polfka and Savalisch, the Concert Guba Orchestra.

Presenter21:34

Joan, as a youngster, did you go camping in the bush, beside the billabong?

Joan Hammond21:40

Yes, indeed. And I even went droving when I was staying with friends of mine in the country. This was a

Joan Hammond21:48

Long and tedious business on horseback that we used to.

Joan Hammond21:53

Put up the tent at night and have the fire going and cook the old chop. Oh, it was wonderful.

Presenter21:58

So you think you'd be reasonably good at looking after yourself on a desert island?

Joan Hammond22:01

Oh, I think so, yes.

Joan Hammond22:04

providing I could find something with which to catch fish and open the coconut.

Presenter22:08

And by the way,

Presenter22:10

You're a great swimmer.

Joan Hammond22:12

Yeah, go ahead.

Presenter22:12

Can go off

Joan Hammond22:14

I'd need a harpoon or something.

Presenter22:17

And because you're good in small boats, would you try to escape?

Joan Hammond22:21

No, I should think a lot about this. First I'd like to see just

Joan Hammond22:28

Uh what I had on the island in the way of being able to keep me going.

Joan Hammond22:34

Long enough?

Joan Hammond22:35

I would really uh

Joan Hammond22:37

Look at Myra Gautas and

Joan Hammond22:40

go around and make quite sure that I absolutely couldn't stay on the island and was forced to take to a boat before I set off. I really feel this.

Presenter22:51

Right, let's get back to record.

Joan Hammond22:53

I have to come back always to my

Joan Hammond22:56

O my beloved Father, because

Joan Hammond22:59

I would want.

Joan Hammond23:01

Not to listen to myself at all, but for the memories that it would bring back of my entire career.

Joan Hammond23:08

and of the faithful.

Joan Hammond23:11

Wonderful audience.

Speaker 423:12

Yeah.

Joan Hammond23:13

But I have

Joan Hammond23:15

Fearing

Joan Hammond23:16

And I think this record I would have to take for that reason.

Joan Hammond23:21

Because I would see their faces when I announced it, and I would know that I had done something that had given

Joan Hammond23:30

A great, great many people, a lot of joy and happiness.

Speaker 423:35

I feel alone.

Speaker 423:42

I love him.

Speaker 424:13

Yeah.

Speaker 424:25

Above

Speaker 424:29

The Raymond

Presenter24:34

Oh my beloved Father, recorded, it says on the label, with the Halley Orchestra in September 1941 at the Bellevue Gardens Match.

Presenter24:44

Now let's have your last record.

Joan Hammond24:46

The pump and circumstance.

Joan Hammond24:48

March 5. Elga

Joan Hammond24:50

And of course, I would automatically sing the word land of hope and glory and march up and down the beach.

Joan Hammond24:57

I think it's through rounding it magnificent.

Joan Hammond25:00

And that's a melody that always gives me goose pimples to hear it.

Joan Hammond25:06

and it brings a lump to my throat.

Joan Hammond25:08

And after all, there I am, a wee little British subject on an island alone, and this would really give me a tonic.

Presenter26:17

Elgar's first pomp and circumstance march, Sir Malcolm Sargent conducting the London Symphony Orchestra. If you could take just one of the eight records you've played us, which would it be?

Presenter26:27

What an awkward question. Isn't it?

Joan Hammond26:29

Yes, well I would take, I think.

Joan Hammond26:32

the Sansans, the piano concerto number five, because I know that I'm going to need such a lot of cheering up while I'm there and this uh particular movement.

Joan Hammond26:44

It ripples along and it would just put me in the right mood for trying to fish and getting open those coconuts and the usual things.

Presenter26:52

And one luxury to have with you?

Joan Hammond26:55

Oh

Joan Hammond26:56

Oh, undoubtedly a toothpress.

Presenter26:59

Well, you shall have a supply of toothbrushes and a whole case of toothpaste.

Joan Hammond27:02

And a billabong with water, please.

Presenter27:06

And one book apart from the Bible injected.

Joan Hammond27:10

The dictionary.

Joan Hammond27:11

The Oxford Dictionary.

Presenter27:12

The whole big one.

Joan Hammond27:13

The whole big one, yes, I could play about with that forever.

Presenter27:16

Right. And thank you, Joan Hammond, for letting us hear your desert island.

Joan Hammond27:21

Been my pleasure.

Presenter27:23

Goodbye, everyone.