Claire Horton

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:45

My castaway this week is Claire Horton, former Chief Executive of Battersea Dogs and Cats Home. She spent most of her working life in the charity sector, at the NSPCC, the Cats Protection League, the Variety Club of Great Britain, and, as we speak, she's just taken up a new role as Director General of the Commonwealth Wargraves Commission. But it was her transformation of Battersea that made headlines and won awards. She took over running the beloved but struggling animal rescue charity in 2010, its 150th year, and set about dragging it, if not kicking and screaming, then certainly woofing and meowing, into the 21st century.

Presenter1:22

Under her tenure, income and volunteer numbers quadrupled, new facilities were developed, and the charity successfully campaigned for changes in animal welfare legislation. She was awarded a CBE last year for her work in this area, but caring for cats and dogs wasn't her original career plan. She left school at 16, and two years later, she joined the West Midlands Police Force, where she patrolled the streets of Dudley. She says, it sounds twee, but I've always been drawn to trying to make a difference to the lives of others. Claire Horton, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much, Lauren. Really lovely to be here. So, Claire, you're just weeks into your new job at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, which cares for the graves of the men and women who died in the First and Second World Wars. But beyond the professional, I think you have a personal connection with that work too, don't you?

Presenter2:12

Well, I do, but actually I didn't know that I did until I started looking into it in some detail. I come from a very small village in Lancashire where many of the young men that lived in the village and the surrounding villages at the time obviously went to war, all the wars and died. And it was only when I looked on the Wargraves phenomenal casualty database, which I didn't even know existed, that I found that there were two members of my family who very sadly died. My mother's on my mother's side, her grandfather and a cousin. And they've got war graves in the local village cemetery. So they're in fact one of the 160,000 war graves that are scattered around 12,500 locations across Great Britain.

Presenter3:05

Let's turn to your work with animals now, Claire. One of the byproducts of the pandemic has of course been a surge in pet ownership. Is this something that you welcomed at Battersea? We are always delighted in the rescue sector when people take on animals. Our challenge is always making sure that those animals are healthy and well and that people's circumstances suit a particular animal. But no, that's been the real positive. Certainly lockdown has seen a huge surge in people wanting to take dogs and cats. And of course, what we see also is that animals just give people a real sense of calmness, of comfort, of companionship. We found through the pandemic, they've been the reason that some people have actually got up and got themselves out for their daily exercise because they've had to take their dog for a walk. How have your pets helped you over this past year?

Presenter3:55

They are just a joy for me. They're actually a big release for me in terms of getting out of the house. So my walks with the dogs are very much welcomed, even in the muddy weather that we tend to go out in these days. And I'm very lucky to have them. I have three Battersea dogs and a cat. Now, before we dive into your discs, I did think, Claire, that I should get the most controversial question that I will ask you today out of the way. Okay, so here goes. Dogs or cats?

Presenter4:25

Now, the answer should be, oh, well, I love them both equally, but dogs. Dogs for me every time. Okay, a dog person. Interesting. All right, with that out of the way, let's get into your discs. This is your first choice today. Why are you taking it to the island with you? Well, this is all about Battersea. This is a song that we used for a new advert that we made about 18 months ago now. And it was designed to just change people's attitudes to rescue pets. It's all about making people realise that rescue pets are not all damaged and broken. Yes, they've had a tough time and yes, many of them have had horrific experiences in the past. But when they come out of a rescue, they're happy, they're trusting, and so they come out with what I call a bit of a swagger. So this is the song we chose. It's Howling for You, aptly named, and it's by the Black Keys.

Claire Horton5:22

Alright.

Claire Horton5:34

Where are you?

Claire Horton5:38

I must have did.

Claire Horton5:39

I can't explain.

Claire Horton5:41

Any of these thoughts racing through my brain

Claire Horton5:46

The baby I'm howling

Presenter5:51

The Black Keys and Howling for You. So, Claire Horton, how did the increased demand for pets at the beginning of lockdown affect you at Battersea? Were you prepared for it? We were getting 1,500 calls almost every day and applications onto our online rehoming portal. And we just didn't have those animals. I mean, there were no rescue animals in rescues at that time for a number of reasons. One was because we'd had to get them all out as quickly as we could across the country from rescues into foster homes and into new homes as lockdown was coming around for the first time because nobody actually knew what that was going to mean. Were we going to be able to operate? Were we actually going to be able to get in and look after these animals? And then, actually, because there was this massive surge of people wanting animals online, we then saw fewer animals coming in, which was great in one respect, because you know that people are either hanging on to them because they now find that they can look after them and that life is perhaps easier with them than it would have been. And also, that people were getting lots and lots of dogs and cats and dogs specifically, particularly dogs, off the internet. And that in itself brings lots of problems because what we saw was a surge in imported animals coming into the country from abroad, puppy farmers churning out puppies left and right, and often in such poor condition, taken away from their mothers too early, often very badly and under-socialised and often very sick and more often than not dying. And that is an industry in profit and that is an industry in misery.

Presenter7:31

About 10% of dogs that you re-home from Battersea are returned within six months. Why is that? Why do people bring them back?

Presenter7:40

Usually, it will be a very genuine change in circumstances. So, it could be an illness, someone might die, it might be a relationship breakdown, and people get divorced. And we see that a lot. And really, very sadly, and this is something that we are potentially expecting going forward in the coming years, is as a result of recession and economic downturn, people will lose their jobs, then they lose their homes with vet fees and insurance very high. People can't afford their animals anymore. So, very, very tragically, they will bring them into rescue and an organisation like Battersea. We'll obviously take them and rehome them. Then, we'll get people who will bring them back because they hadn't thought it was going to wee on the carpet or chew their bottom of their door. And we've even had a dog come back once because it didn't match the sofa. What? I know. I know.

Presenter8:30

I'm watching you say. Um, but what did you say?

Presenter8:34

Well, we took the animal back very kindly because we never judge. They will never get an animal from us again. And we rehomed it to somebody who really cared about the animal. Because I mean, that's the point of the whole Battersea premise around rescue is our favourite breed. It's not about what breed it is, what colour it is. It's about just being a rescue, just being an animal that you've given a chance to, that needs a wonderful life and is begging for a fantastic home. And all it wants is love, and what you'll get back from that is unconditional loyalty and love forever. It's time for disc number two, Claire. What are we going to hear and why have you chosen it? My late father, who I lost about eight years ago, was not very musical. And we had very few records in the house. We had this song, and it makes me always think of him when I hear it. But it also makes me dance. When I was probably sort of 12 or 13, I would dance and dance and run around the house, leaping on sofas, off sofas, round corners, swinging round doorposts, just dancing to this song.

Speaker 29:38

Fight, spine, drive, beer, lift your sign and drink your deer. Fight, sign!

Speaker 29:53

Bright, as stars when they're shining on radiating!

Speaker 19:57

Drink, drink to lips that are red and sweet as the fruit on the tree. Here's a hope that those bright eyes will shine.

Claire Horton10:00

Bread and sweet

Presenter10:10

Mario Lanza and drink, drink, drink. Claire Horton, that track reminds you then of your father Michael, who I think was a very hard worker. Is that right? He certainly was. And I think, well, both he and my mum actually both gave me my work ethic. You know, he wonderful, just incredible man. He's Irish, came over to the UK in sort of the mid-40s. And he trained and became a civil engineer. And for many years, certainly all through my childhood, he was working up in Scotland. He sort of ran the project around the Keilder Dam, the Baked Inn Reservoir. And he would come home at the weekend, having driven often several hours to come down. And then he'd start sitting at the dining table and doing huge, great manual calculations on the mass of bridges or the construction, you know, sort of work. Yes. You know, I adore my father. I was just, I guess I missed seeing him as much and I became more friends with him than I perhaps had ever done before in older life really. Okay, what was that like? Did you discover a new side to him?

Speaker 111:11

Even when he was always thinking about

Speaker 111:14

Uh

Claire Horton11:25

Hmm.

Speaker 111:25

Really?

Presenter11:29

Well, we still didn't talk very much, but we actually did, we shared the more grown-up things. I think we actually had conversations about things that we probably didn't do in our, well, when I was younger. So you sound like you must have been a very dynamic family because your mother Mildred, too, when I was still around, she joined the police force as a young woman and was a bit of a trailblazer, I think. She was, she was. She was one of the first women officers in what was then the Preston Borough. And her duties were very different to women police officers of today. You know, she was given the jobs of working with the, you know, the sort of sex workers of the day, making sure that they were safe on the streets. She was very caring. She still is a very caring person and built some great relationships with people. So, yeah, she did a good job. So perhaps then it was your mother that instilled in you the idea of public service and doing good?

Presenter12:24

I think she probably was because she later went to train in occupational therapy and worked in the health service for 23 years. And I volunteered in the hospital with her, you know, sort of doing social events and singing. And she played the piano beautifully and we had some wonderful fun. And I think it's her example always that, and that of my grandparents who were both very church-minded, very community-minded, really sort of just has built that into who we are as a family. It's time for your next piece of music. Tell us about disc number three, if you would.

Presenter13:00

When I was around about 16, somebody lent me a skirt that had this incredible, down to my ankles, very heavy but very full skirt. And when you twirled round, it sort of came out like a bit like an umbrella, really. And I danced and I danced and I ran around the fields near where we lived. In the middle of the night, I would sneak out of the house. take my shoes off, jump around in the moonlight and actually just dance to sing this song.

Claire Horton13:38

I want the food, what the food, what the food I see

Claire Horton13:43

Me and Captain Come Line. So ho ho ho ho, let me anywhere. No.

Speaker 213:55

Let's be a happy home now. So

Claire Horton13:59

Ho ho ho for me and go.

Presenter14:06

Shoes off for that one, Clare Horton. Wuthering Heights, Cape Bush. Presumably throwing them in a lake afterwards at some point if the opportunity presents itself. So Clare, you started volunteering when you were in your early teens. What sorts of projects were you drawn to?

Presenter14:22

I worked for Mencap actually as a volunteer for many years in a day centre for people with learning disabilities and I loved that and we spent a lot of time just having great fun. I worked there for probably about seven or eight years and I also worked with my mother who worked at a hospital with what we're called long-term geriatric patients. I worked at the local riding stables. I have a huge passion for horses. I also worked with horses and so people, animals, anything that I think I can enjoy because I think volunteering has got to be enjoyable and make a difference in at the same time. When you were in your late teens you set your sights on a career in the police force. What was the attraction of that?

Presenter15:11

I always like that serving people public benefit feel from work, and I guess I must have felt the same thing then. And I left school at 16 wanting to join the cadets, the police cadets, and very sadly didn't get through. And I didn't get through because it turned out when I did the medical that I needed glasses for distance. And the West Midlands Police at that time were very clear that they didn't want anybody who either wasn't a certain height or didn't or needed glasses, and so I didn't get in. And they said, come back when you're 18 and try for the regulars.

Presenter15:52

So when you were 18, you joined as a special constable in Dudley, where your family had moved to when you were a child. How did you find life on the beat? Life on the beat was just very busy. Lots of people issues, lots of criminal damage, lots of burglaries, all the things that you get in a very busy metropolis that's got a very large population of people. But loved it. Absolutely loved the camaraderie, loved the banter, found it very emotional. You know, this is your helping people often at their most vulnerable. We dealt with murders, we dealt with very serious injuries, we dealt with child deaths. Those sorts of things I think are the most

Presenter16:32

Testing, but you have to be strong, you have to get through it because people need you. How did you process what was happening? I mean, it must have been a lot to take on at a young age, yourself. You do bounce off each other a lot. You do support each other. And there is, you know, there are those times you just go away and you sit very quietly to yourself and you reflect and you think, and then you get up and you carry on, you do the next job.

Presenter16:55

And then there are times when you'll talk to colleagues and you'll laugh and you'll joke and you'll make not a joke about the individuals you've been dealing with, but you'll make a joke about having to cack on and do the rest of it. So you get by and you get by well, actually, because you have to. It's time for some more music, Claire. Tell us about your next disc today.

Presenter17:15

So this is back to my days really, I think, in the police force. I lived and worked in the Black Country and of course Black Country gets its name from the richness of the industries that were prevalent around at that time. So brickworks and iron foundries and glassworks. But also it was a time of a thriving town centre. And then I started to see a change and I watched what was a hugely vibrant and wonderful, busy, exciting high street in Dudley turn into the most derelict, depressing and soulless place you could imagine. So this song is really about the deindustrialisation of the country.

Presenter18:04

And it's Ghost Town by The Specials.

Claire Horton18:11

This car

Claire Horton18:13

It's coming like that

Claire Horton18:18

All the clubs are being closed down

Claire Horton18:24

This place

Claire Horton18:27

It's got me like a ghost

Claire Horton18:35

Fighting under the storm

Presenter18:38

The specials and ghost town. So, Claire Horton, your husband Paul, was also a police officer at the time you were. How did you meet? Was it on the beat? It was on the beat, actually. And usually on special bank holiday event days. So, Dudley has the Black Country Museum, it has Dudley Zoo, and huge, huge numbers of cars would come into the town on those sorts of days. And we would often be on traffic duty together, sort of directing traffic. And I remember I was standing in the middle of the road looking up at this really tall, very

Claire Horton18:48

Actually

Presenter19:10

Handsome police officer with his uh with his helmet sort of pulled down quite low over his eyes, and thinking, Oh, gosh, he's gorgeous, but of course, he'll never like me. And um, and it was a night of a general election, and when Margaret Thatcher got back in, and we were both on separate polling stations guarding the polling stations, and you have to, you know, polls close at 10 o'clock, and you take the box to the local town hall. And when that's done, all the police officers that have been on duty all day all end up going off for a drink together. And we all ended up having a drink together. Then we went on to a nightclub trying to disguise our uniforms underneath sort of scarves and goodness knows what else, and had a few drinks at the nightclub. And then we ended up at someone's house where we all stayed just chatting with music playing and sort of drinking coffees into the early hours of the morning. And as I walked through the door to take some coffees off him that he'd just made, he sort of stopped in the doorway and just leaned forward and gave me a kiss. And that was it. That was it. We were smitten forever then.

Presenter20:16

And that was it. Unfortunately, there were tough times ahead as well, not too long after that. I think Paul had an accident at at work, and that had serious implications for him. What happened?

Presenter20:28

We'd been married actually about a year and our son Tim was six weeks old and Paul sustained a really serious injury to both feet. And ultimately, despite multiple surgical interventions over the years, I mean he's had 17 operations over the sort of 20-year period and they couldn't fix it. And he was pensioned off, a sick pension. And he lost the job he loved. He lost his mobility. He was a great goalkeeper, actually. He used to play for the police team in football and cricket. And we used to walk, cliff walk. We used to love cliff walking and we used to, well, we used to walk everywhere, really. We used to have a lot of fun out and about. And all that got taken away. I guess what I saw was someone.

Speaker 220:50

Uh

Speaker 120:50

Uh

Presenter21:19

Not the stuffing.

Presenter21:21

You know, out of him really. Made it took all his opportunities and chances away. His career aspirations were gone. But nonetheless, the upside, and there is an upside, and we do see it as a positive, is that he brought up baby and I went back to work and I have had the career I've had over the last 30 years because of him. And I wouldn't be here in these roles had he not supported me.

Presenter21:50

So you left the police force in the late eighties. Why did you decide to go? I kn certainly after Paul's situation changed.

Presenter21:59

I couldn't work, I don't think, in anything that felt um had too high risk around it. So I found an advert in a newspaper for the NSPCC and I didn't know.

Presenter22:13

That charities actually employed people 30 years ago. I don't know, like many people at the time, I suppose. I thought charities were all run on volunteers. So I applied for this job as a fundraiser, got it, and absolutely loved it. Let's take a second for some more music, Claire. This is your fifth disc today. Tell us why you've chosen it. Well, this is absolutely my go-to place. I spend all of my days talking. I'm in meetings all the time and I never really get any downtime. So when I do, this is the song that I disappear into.

Claire Horton23:24

John's men.

Presenter23:52

Agnes Day, composed by Samuel Barber and performed by the Choir of New College, Oxford, conducted by Edward Higginbossum.

Presenter24:00

So Claire, I know particularly at Battersea that you must have come across some appalling examples of animal cruelty. How much of a shock was it for you to discover what people are capable of? And how do you keep your emotions in check in situations when you see that?

Presenter24:16

I remember being at Battersea the day that a lady came in carrying a Staffordshire Bull Terrier that had an 11-inch stab wound right down its shoulder and into its side. And she herself was covered in blood from the dog, but also covered in blood from her own injuries, from where her husband had beaten her up and threatened to kill the animal as well as her. I ought to be harder than this, really, hadn't I, having spent so long working in the police service, but I just it breaks my heart. I'm not that tough really.

Speaker 124:49

I'm not sure.

Presenter24:52

It's time for your next disc. What is it and why have you chosen it?

Presenter24:57

I think today, probably more than ever before, we spend a lot of time looking for validation. And I fear very much for young people who are always seeking some sort of validation of whatever it is that they're doing, what they're wearing, what their makeup is, how they look. And this song is really for my son, who is a wonderful, wonderful individual. But when we moved to Worcester back in the late 90s, we moved his school and he was very nervous about will I fit in? What will they think of me? And a song was playing on the radio and it sort of became our song. And it's sort of a mantra that we've really had for life now. It's got some great lines in it. Every line begins with an affirmation, I believe. And so the song itself is affirmation by Savage Garden.

Speaker 225:56

I believe in harm, but what you give is what you get return I believe you can appreciate me

Presenter26:05

Look till you've been burned.

Speaker 226:08

Uh

Presenter26:08

The grass is no more greener on the other side. I believe

Speaker 226:14

Uh

Claire Horton26:14

You don't know what you got

Presenter26:20

Savage Garden and Affirmation. Claire Horton, when you became Chief Executive at Battersea, described your brief as waking the sleeping giant. What exactly did the job involve and was it daunting?

Presenter26:35

I think it was exciting. It involved taking it out to the nation. You know, everybody knows Battersea Dogs Home. It's that sort of part of the British language, isn't it? You know, I watched a film with Imelda Staunton on the other the other night and she even she referred about checking into Battersea Dog's Home. So, you know, it does form sort of part of the is part of the national psyche. But what it didn't do was it didn't raise very much money. And actually, I don't think people really understood anything about what the charity did from day to day. So taking it and giving it back to the people and bringing them on board with us in a way that that brought in support was the most important thing. So I thought that was a really exciting opportunity. And once we started talking about Battersea, everybody wanted to know what we were doing. And of course we then we very early on we secured the Paul O'Grady for the Love of Dogs television programme. So this is a prime time TV show bringing Battersea into people's living rooms essentially. It really is and you know that's now been running for

Speaker 127:30

This is a

Speaker 127:34

That's where

Presenter27:39

Nearly ten years, and certainly he's transformed Battersea. So it's really let people see behind those iconic Battersea gates. And behind the scenes, of course, you were hard at work, too, lobbying politicians about some of the worst animal welfare problems.

Presenter27:56

There was an awful lot of work with politicians, with ministers, looking at what new legislation needed to shape into in order to really tackle some of the worst animal welfare problems. You know, we've worked on compulsory microchipping for dogs. We are looking at how to make sure that the puppy farming and the dealers working in puppy sales are banned and that breeders are made accountable. And most important that we absolutely need to get through and on to the statute books really soon, because it's been going on ridiculously long with Brexit and Covid delaying things, is the Animal Cruelty Sentencing Bill. And that's actually lifting up the penalties for cruelty to animals in this country from six months to five years, which government has committed to do. But we just need to get it through. We just can't delay it any longer.

Presenter28:49

All right, it's time for your next disc, Claire. What are we going to hear and why are you taking this with you today?

Presenter28:55

This is just such an uplifting song and it comes from the London 2012 Olympics and the torch itself took a detour on its journey to the Olympic Stadium and was passed to Michael Owen, who's a great friend of Battersea, who ran from the back gate to the front gate of the Battersea site, which is about a half a mile, with the Olympic torch and through a guard of honour of Battersea dogs and people. It was the most exciting time. It brings us all together. It's about celebration. It's about celebrating our heroes. And blindly, we need to be celebrating our heroes right now, don't we?

Claire Horton29:49

You hold me queen!

Claire Horton29:55

No.

Presenter30:09

HEROES by David Bowie. Claire Horton, you've spoken so warmly today about your time at Battersea, so it must have been incredibly difficult for you to say goodbye after eleven years and so many successful changes.

Presenter30:23

It's probably the hardest career decision I've ever had to make. I adore Battersea. The fun we have. You know, it's a very hard sector to work in with all the emotion and the distress that you see. But my goodness, me, we know how to have fun and we know how to make our animals enjoy life as well. So I'm really proud with what we've all been able to achieve together. Now I'm about to cast you away. How will you cope on the island, do you think? What will you miss the most?

Presenter30:52

Well, I think obviously I'll miss my family, but they will know I will be happy because I will be happy on the island. I do like time on my own. I am very comfortable being on my own, and I don't get to be on my own very often. So I will enjoy the wonder of the island. I really hope it's got a lovely beach. Please don't have it as a beach full of crabs because that might be scary and cliffs that need to be scaled. I shall have a go, but I would like a nice beach to wander on. Fingers crossed, it won't be a crabby beach. I've never thought of that, have you, Richard?

Speaker 131:21

Uh

Claire Horton31:22

So fab.

Presenter31:24

All right, one more disc before we drop you off there and you find out, Claire, what's it going to be?

Presenter31:30

So this is actually really very much in keeping with the role I am now in at the Commonwealth Wargraves Commission and it's not deliberate, it is actually one of my absolute favourite pieces of music. It's a mass for peace and this was a piece that was written for the millennium and it was commissioned by the Royal Armouries Museum in remembrance of the victims of the Kosovo crisis.

Claire Horton32:32

Reverend ignored.

Presenter32:52

Benedictus composed by Carl Jenkins and performed by the London Philharmonic Orchestra and the National Youth Choir of Great Britain.

Presenter33:00

Clare Horton, it's time then to cast you away. I'm going to give you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take another book of your choice with you. What would you like?

Presenter33:10

Well, I I do like crime fiction. Probably one of my oldest favourites is Dick Francis, so I'm just going to go with anything by Dick Francis, please. You can also have a luxury item. What will you go for?

Presenter33:22

Well, I would like, if I could, a piano. My grandfather and my grandmother were very musical people and my mother plays the piano. And we had a piano in our house and I I never really played it very well. So I think I quite like to learn to play the piano. But if I have a piano, please gotta have a book that teaches me to play it.

Presenter33:43

And some music. Oh. What we can do for you, Claire, is a piano and sheep music as a luxury item. Oh, I think sheep music's fine. That would help me. I'll work my way through it. I've got a lot of time to kill.

Presenter33:56

And finally, which of these eight tracks would you rush to save if you had to grab just one?

Presenter34:03

There can only be one choice for me, because I'm going to be free, I'm going to be running, I'm going to be jumping and dancing, and even though I might not have that full skirt any more, I certainly want to have this song. It is going to be Wuthering Heights with Kate Bush.

Presenter34:19

Claire Horton, thank you so much for sharing your Desert Island discs with us. Thank you very much. I've absolutely loved it, Lauren.

Presenter34:38

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Claire. We'll leave her sunning herself on a pristine and hopefully crab-free beach. Over the years, we've cast many charity workers away, including Sir John Wilson, Sue Ryder, Helen Bamber, Marjorie Wallace, and Julie Bentley. And dog lover Paulo Grady was cast away by Sue Lawley back in 2004. You can hear all of those programmes on the Desert Island Disc's website and on BBC Sounds. Next time, my guest will be the actor, Mark Strong. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 135:21

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Speaker 135:30

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Speaker 135:41

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Speaker 135:56

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Speaker 136:01

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Speaker 136:15

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