Sir Cliff Richard

Speaker 40:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Presenter0:04

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:44

My castaway this week is the singer and actor Sir Cliff Richard. He's been castaway on Desert Island Discs once before, some 60 years ago. Back then, he told presenter Roy Plumley that he was celebrating the fact he'd just left his teens and that the 10 singles he'd released had all been chart hits, though he admitted he was keeping his fingers crossed as he didn't know how long his lucky streak would last. Well, he needn't have worried. His chart success in the UK has been eclipsed only by his hero Elvis Presley and one-time rivals the Beatles. He's released over 100 albums, sold well over 250 million records, and is the only British artist to score number ones in five consecutive decades. As an artist, he is at once familiar and enigmatic. His career has seen many transformations, from rock and roller to Knight of the Realm, Teen Heartthrob to Born Again Gospel Singer, and from Wired for Sound Disco King to veritable Christmas tradition. The critics haven't always been kind, but fans continue to adore him, and 60 years in the spotlight has earned him a special place in British popular culture. He says, I've always maintained I'm the most radical rock and roll singer Britain has ever seen. I didn't do drugs, I didn't get drunk, I didn't indulge in soulless sex, and I've always felt comfortable with the decisions I've taken. I like being Cliff Richard. Sir Cliff Richard, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Sir Cliff Richard2:10

Thank you very much indeed.

Presenter2:12

Now amazingly, it was October 1960 that we first dropped you off on our island. So I'm going to start by taking you back to that recording if you don't mind.

Sir Cliff Richard2:20

No, I don't mind at all. Is it a fact that you can't move about easily in the streets without the risk of being mobbed? In town, um, they're slightly more blasé about it, because I think they're used to bumping into people, you know. But in the provinces, they don't hesitate to if they see someone they know from the screen, they don't hesitate to gather round. Yes, and that means that you can lose the buttons off your clothes. Well, you can quite easily. They don't mean to do any harm, really.

Presenter2:44

How does it feel listening back to your younger self?

Sir Cliff Richard2:45

Yeah.

Sir Cliff Richard2:47

The thing is, what I can't relate to is that I sound quite confident back there, didn't I? I mean, I because I was only about, well, I was only 20.

Presenter2:52

I

Presenter2:55

How do you look back at that young man now?

Sir Cliff Richard2:58

Well, you know, if someone asked me if I could if I could advise that young Cliff Richard a about anything, what would you say? And I'd say I would actually say to him, Do whatever you're going to do because apparently it worked.

Presenter3:14

Now at that clip you were talking about your fans. Fans can, of course, be very fickle, but yours have remained steadfast since the very earliest days. How have you managed to keep them with you through the ups and downs of your recording career and all of that time that's past?

Sir Cliff Richard3:29

Yes, it's been uh it's been better than I could ever have expected. I mean, first of all, I didn't think that uh we would last that long. The Shadows and I were clumped together with a lot of rock and rollers who were considered

Sir Cliff Richard3:42

Here today, gone tomorrow, one hit wonders. And suddenly ten years have gone by and I thought, oh, I've still got fans, I'm still making records, I'm still having hits. And I still welcome the fact that fans are willing to come out and see me perform. I mean, you have to get realistic as you get older and I realize now that I wouldn't be able to go and fill the Wembley Stadium as I did twice, once before. So as long as there's one or two people that would come and see me, I can still perform.

Speaker 23:44

In the

Presenter4:09

Well, let's get started then. It's time for your first disc, Sir Cliff Richard. What's it going to be, and why have you chosen this to day?

Sir Cliff Richard4:16

Well, first of all, the title sounds right for an island, doesn't it? Rolling in the Deep. I assume that I might be able to swim while I'm on the island. And Rolling in the Deep by Adele was such a fantastic track. I loved the song. But I've chosen to take Aretha Franklin with me. I mean, I've been a fan of her voice. That voice is, for me, the greatest voice ever.

Speaker 24:38

There's a fire burning in my heart Reaching a favorite pitch and it's bringing me out of the dark

Sir Cliff Richard4:49

I can see it crystal clear. Go ahead and sell me out and I'll let you bear. See how I will leave.

Speaker 24:57

With every part of you. Don't underestimate the things that I will do.

Presenter5:07

Rolling in the Deep, Aretha Franklin. So, Sir Cliff Richard, you were born Harry Roger Webb in Lucknow, in what was then British India, in nineteen forty, and your father, Roger, was manager of a catering company that serviced the Indian Railways. What do you remember about your early years there?

Sir Cliff Richard5:24

Well, you know, I left there when I was still seven. I had my eighth birthday in England. So my it's childhood memories, but the ones I remember of, I mean, independence had come in 1947 and there was there was kind of civil war kicking off. So I can remember that, you know, being in bed and thinking, boy, there's a bang, bang.

Presenter5:35

It was

Presenter5:43

I mean, your dad, like like many fathers of his time, although you had a lot of fun together, he he was also quite a strict disciplinarian. W was there a side of him that you were a little bit scared of as a kid?

Sir Cliff Richard5:54

Yes, I mean it bordered on being a bit fearful and I think sometimes if you're actually going to actually end up admiring someone it's because they're strong. So I was a bit afraid of upsetting him. The word, Indian word that I remember was a jarp and it was really a clip around an ear roll if you know what I mean. My mother I feel was a terrific balance. You know if he did that, if he clouted me around the head because I'd done something wrong, you know we would all of us take it in turns to run to mum and go, oh mum and she'd say well you must have done something that upset your father. And in the end when you start to talk to your mother who's so gentle with you you have to admit to her yeah I did do that. She said well don't do it again. So I thought there was a yin and yang thing going on with my mum and dad. I mean my father influenced me much more than I thought and I I loved the one thing he said to me. I'd I'd record it move it but it hadn't been released the first record and he'd said to me you really want this and I said yeah I really want this he said well from now on you're gonna have to be the best at it that you can be you can never let up so I guess that's all part and parcel of m my being able to um focus so firmly on where I wanted to

Speaker 26:39

Mummy

Sir Cliff Richard7:05

go and what I wanted to do and I guess I don't guess I know it came from my father.

Presenter7:07

Yeah.

Presenter7:11

In nineteen forty seven India gained its independence and you and your family moved to England to Cosh Alton the following year. You were seven and it was a tough time for everyone. You'd had a very comfortable life in India but your dad struggled to find work back home, didn't he? And he had four kids to support.

Sir Cliff Richard7:27

We arrived with five pounds sterling, which I've looked up. I think it's about £200 now. If you can imagine how you have a wife and four children and survive on £200 and no work, and I can remember three meals, three main meals a week were a soup bowl with two slices of toast with tea poured over it, milky tea and sugar sprinkled on it.

Presenter7:50

Yeah, I mean and you were living in in was it just one room, two rooms at the time?

Sir Cliff Richard7:55

Yeah, there was a period where my father had a sister who lived in Waltham Cross in Hertfordshire. She had a spare room. It's only a small room, but there were six of us in that room. I think we had bunk beds on each side of the walls, so it was a narrow section in the middle that we lived in. But because of having lived in that condition is the reason why we got jumped up the waiting list for Council House. And of course it felt like a palace once we had gone into it, because suddenly we had...

Sir Cliff Richard8:23

Two and a half bedrooms, two bedrooms and a little box room, which eventually became my bedroom. Even now speaking about it, I'm so grateful to have gone through that. It makes you much more thankful and grateful for what's happening now. I mean, look at how I live now. I wake up in Barbados and open the curtains and think, how did I get here?

Presenter8:43

It's time for your second disc today. Why have you chosen this?

Sir Cliff Richard8:47

The song was written for me by Terry Britton, who wrote Devil Woman and a bunch of other songs for me and produced an album with me as well. And somehow or another, the demo that he sent to my office got sent back to him with a little message saying, we don't think this is right for Sycliff.

Sir Cliff Richard9:06

So he gave it to Tina Turner and because I got it first I wanted to record it and when the time came I did an album called Wanted. In other words, the songs I wanted to do and I did a version of what Love Got to Do With It.

Sir Cliff Richard9:22

You must understand all the touch of your hand

Sir Cliff Richard9:26

My faults react ever done

Sir Cliff Richard9:30

And it's only the thrill.

Sir Cliff Richard9:33

A boy meeting girl up a sets attractive

Sir Cliff Richard9:39

No, it's busy girl

Sir Cliff Richard9:43

Only logic.

Sir Cliff Richard9:48

You must try to ignore that it

Presenter9:51

What's Love Got to Do With It This Time? by Cliff Richard, the one that got away there, Cliff.

Presenter9:58

So, Cliff, your dad was musical. He played banjo in a jazz band and he bought you a guitar for your sixteenth birthday, didn't he? What did he teach you?

Sir Cliff Richard10:06

The first song he taught me, I can't remember, I think it's called the Prisoner Song. If I had the wings of an fumble, fumble, fumble, brung over Brun De Sprisen, Waltz, it was really, I could remember now not getting my fingers in the right positions all the time. But that's the guitar that kicked it off for me. And mostly I used to stand in front of the mirror, miming to an Elvis record with a guitar hanging around my neck, and it made me feel the way I thought rock and rollers should look and feel.

Speaker 210:30

My

Presenter10:40

It was in those days though such a distant dream. You know, there was the matter of everyday life to attend to and your dad was encouraging your musical ambitions, but he also wanted you to kind of get a steady job. He was working for a company called Atlas Lamps and you joined him there as a credit control clerk. Not a promising environment for a budding rock star, so I'm guessing that your heart wasn't really in it.

Sir Cliff Richard11:02

No, it wasn't really. And I was still performing with my friends, you know, in bars and pubs and things, two guitars and a drummer. We had no bass, no keyboards, nothing. But we still sang the songs that were coming from America. We were doing Ricky Nelson and Elvis Presley. And the audiences that we play to, it's difficult to call them an audience. The people that were drinking in a pub, leaning on a bar, and they seemed to like what we were doing.

Presenter11:28

You decided you needed a a new name as a lead singer. How did you light on Cliff Richard?

Sir Cliff Richard11:34

We went to play at the Two Eyes Coffee Bar, which was a famous cafe, and it's where Tommy Steele was discovered, as was Terry Dean. And so we had gone there thinking, oh, we're better than them. You know, the arrogance of youth. And of course, nobody spotted us at all except two people. Somebody who became my fan club president and a guy that came from Ripley and Derbyshire. And his name is Harry Gratrix. And he said, I'd like you to come and play in my ballroom. What's your name? I said, Harry. He said, look, okay, Harry Webb. Harry Webb and the Drifters. I went, no, no, no, no, no. That doesn't sound like rock and roll to me. We're just the drifters. And he said, no, well, no, I need the name. Otherwise, I'm not going to have you up there. So we went into a little pub around the corner from the Two Eyes and sat down. And the last combination of names was Cliff Russard.

Sir Cliff Richard12:23

And I said

Sir Cliff Richard12:24

Cliff sounds good. That's rock face, rock and roll. Somebody else suggested Richards, Cliff Richards, with an S on the end. And the guy who had just joined us at the Two Eyes was a guy called Ian Stanwell. He said, take the S off, the Richard. And you're left with two Christian names, and they're bound to get it wrong in interviews. They're bound to call you Richards, and you can correct them. And then that means you've spouted your name out twice in the same interview. So I went into that pub Harry Webb and I came out Cliff Richards.

Presenter12:55

It's time for some more music, Cliff, and this one is the only track from your nineteen sixty list that you're going to take to the island a second time. Tell us about this.

Sir Cliff Richard13:05

Two friends of mine, a drummer Terry, a guitarist Norman and I, who we've hacked around in pubs locally, but we were chilling out on the street in Waltham Cross and this car came up, windows were down, the driver jumped out and went into a newsagent's and we're looking at the car thinking what a great car. Do you think we'll have one of those one day?

Sir Cliff Richard13:28

And then on the radio we heard Elvis but since my baby left me

Sir Cliff Richard13:33

It just blew us away and then of course the guy came back, drove off. So we didn't hear who was singing, we didn't know what he was singing, and we talked about it, we thought it felt like something from outer space. We'd never heard anything other than Max Bygraves and Frank Sinarcher and people like that singing on the radio. So that's what kicked me off and that's what I'm convinced now that that's the reason why I've followed my dreams.

Speaker 213:50

Don't you know?

Sir Cliff Richard14:00

Well since my baby left me, will I find a new place to dwell? Well it's down at the end of Lonely Street

Speaker 214:01

Baby love.

Sir Cliff Richard14:08

Heartbreak Hotel World

Sir Cliff Richard14:11

Mana baby gets a lonely baby. Well I am so lonely.

Sir Cliff Richard14:16

I'll be so lonely, I could die.

Sir Cliff Richard14:20

Oh, but it's always crowded, and you still can find some room For broken-hearted mothers to crowd and do. Uh

Presenter14:29

Elvis Presley and Heartbreak Hotel. So, Sir Cliff Richard, by 1958, you and the Drifters had got yourselves a manager, you got a record contract and mastered the Elvis lip curl and hip swivel. Your first hit, Move It, reached number two in the charts. How quickly and how completely did life change for you after that?

Sir Cliff Richard14:50

Oh well it changed instantly. You know I can remember the first cheque. We were still at the Chesant Council House and this cheque came through for sixty pounds. I mean it sent seemed like a fortune to us and I bought my mum and dad a television set with it.

Presenter15:05

Move It is credited with being one of the first, if not the first, truly British rock and roll songs, and that prompted John Lennon to say, before Cliff Richard in the Shadows, as the Drifters became, there had been nothing worth listening to in British music. Quite an endorsement.

Sir Cliff Richard15:21

If God bless him, some journalists who think they've been pretty cool

Sir Cliff Richard15:26

They're really more cruel than cool. They often say to me, Well, what's it feel like? You're not really cool. And I I say John Lennon thought I was cool, so I'll go with John, you know.

Presenter15:34

So I'm I'll

Presenter15:36

You and the Beatles were rivals for chart positions and for studio space as well. I know that studio two in Abbey Road, which is very famous these days, was hotly contested territory between the two of you. Tell me about that.

Sir Cliff Richard15:47

Tell me about that. Because Move It was a hit there, of course we wanted to make the next one. It's kind of superstitious really. But you think, no, I've got to go back there. I want to be in that same corner. I want to have everything around me exactly as it was for Move It. And so we made our record today. And don't forget, we were there five years before the Beatles. People think that the Beatles own Studio 2. They don't. They were renting it. We owned it first.

Sir Cliff Richard16:14

But it's so great. I've talked to Paul a couple of times about this and he said to me, well, you were always ERMI's favourite boy. Every time we ring for Studio 2, you've got it. And I said, Paul, please, every time Bruce Welsh, guitarist in my band, every time Bruce rang, they told us, no, the Beatles have got it.

Presenter16:36

Bruce Welch had a party then and invited you and the Beatles, who just had a hit with Please Please Me. What happened?

Sir Cliff Richard16:43

Typically, where do we end up in the kitchen? And we were talking and saying, well, what are you going to follow? Please please me with. That's your number one. They said, well, we're not sure this is going to make it. Bruce got his guitar out. I think he gave it to Paul, or maybe it was George. And they said, okay, sing it for us. And what they sang was, and of course it was from me to you. And I remember saying to them, well, I don't know what you think. To me, this is going to be your next number one. And it was.

Presenter17:12

It's time to hear some more music. This is your fourth disc today. Tell us about it.

Sir Cliff Richard17:16

Everybody, including me, was in love with Olivia Newton-John. She made this record, If Not For You, written by Bob Dylan, and

Speaker 217:23

Uh

Sir Cliff Richard17:24

It started to chart and I was doing a BBC TV series. So I asked her to come on, would you like to come and sing your record and present it to the public? Everybody loved her. The camera loved her. The cameramen loved her. I loved her. The audience loved her. She stayed with me there for eight weeks. I could not get rid of that woman. Nor would I try. And she made a record called I Honestly Love You. And as soon as I heard that song, I thought, if I'm going to be on a desert island, I would want to feel still loved, even if I couldn't see the people that I was hoping would still love me.

Presenter18:03

Maybe I hang around here.

Presenter18:07

Little more than I should

Presenter18:11

We both know I got somewhere else to go.

Presenter18:20

But I've got something to tell you that I never thought I would

Presenter18:29

I believe you really

Presenter18:32

I Honestly Love You by Olivia Newton John. So Cliff Richards, not long after your career started to take off, your dad Roger sadly died. He was only fifty six, and during his illness you'd become very close. You were just out of your teens. His death must have knocked you sideways.

Sir Cliff Richard18:50

It was a heartbreaking time for me. My dad missed, missed the best. He was so fast and hard behind me all the way through that I feel sometimes horribly angry that he died too early. He missed the first number one. He missed the knighthood. My father would have loved to have seen me benighted. I miss my dad still.

Presenter19:14

After your dad's death you began to develop an interest in Christianity and started attending Bible classes. And then there was a big moment that came in nineteen sixty six. You were invited to speak at a rally held by the evangelist Billy Graham. Tell me about that decision to get up on stage in front of twenty five thousand people and talk about your faith.

Sir Cliff Richard19:34

Yeah, it was a difficult choice to make, but I had a lot of good friends who were much more mature in their faith. And I'd say to them, look, you know, what about, I mean, will I damage my career? And they said, oh, well, you might do. But you see, this is what made it important for me. In the end, even though they said, well, it might do, it could do, and even management said, you know, you have to be careful about that. In the end, I felt that it was more important even than my career. But it was a terrifying moment for me. I mean, I was so scared. But it did lead to me beginning to be able to speak the name Jesus without feeling embarrassed. I don't know why people are embarrassed by that, but they sometimes are. But I don't feel that embarrassment anymore. And I think the more you can speak to yourself about it and speak to others about what you believe, it makes it easier to believe. The strange thing is, I did actually plan to leave my career and become a teacher. I actually went to a teacher's training college and spoke with the headmaster there.

Presenter20:33

Yes, I think you announced your retirement as well at a press conference.

Sir Cliff Richard20:33

Yes, I think you and I

Sir Cliff Richard20:36

Didn't you? I said that I'd had two years of commitments which I would fulfil and then I was going to duck out. But the interesting thing, see, Lauren, this is what I find amazing. It can't be an accident. Suddenly, Norrie Paramore, my producer from EMI, says, okay, you say you believe these things, let's do a gospel album. And I thought, oh, okay, I'll do a gospel album, then I'll retire.

Sir Cliff Richard20:57

Then I got a call from Time Tease Television saying we're doing six shows based on the parables of Jesus. Would you star in it for us? I thought, oh, okay, then I'll do the album and I'll do the T V and then I'll retire. Then I get a call from the previously mentioned Billy Graham.

Sir Cliff Richard21:13

Who says

Sir Cliff Richard21:14

Would you be in this next movie we're going to make? And that's when I changed my mind. I thought, wait a minute, I can be a pop star and still be a Christian. And the two don't have to be at loggerheads with each other.

Presenter21:29

It's time to take a moment for some music, Cliff. This is disc number five. What are we going to hear and why is this one going with you to the island?

Sir Cliff Richard21:38

I used to go on gospel tours and I used to do charity tours, singing for charity. And I met up with a girl called Sheila Walsh. Sheila is now living in the States and is really quite a big name in gospel television. I got a call from somebody who was producing a new album for her and he said, Sheila would like you to sing on this track. It is Well in My Soul.

Sir Cliff Richard22:04

It makes me think even now as I'm saying it, faith can get us through some of the most disastrous periods of our life.

Speaker 422:12

Bliss of this glorious thought

Speaker 422:18

All of my sin are just

Sir Cliff Richard22:24

He's nailed to the cross.

Sir Cliff Richard22:27

I bear it no more, my debt has been paid.

Sir Cliff Richard22:33

Oh, praise the Lord. Amen.

Presenter22:41

It is Well, Cliff Richard and Sheila Walsh.

Presenter22:45

Cliff, I quoted you at the beginning of the programme saying that you'd avoided the excesses of the rock and roll lifestyle, the alcohol, the drugs, the soulless sex. Although you've had some important relationships in your life, you you never got married, and you've said in the past that you were too committed to your career to do that. How damaging do you think getting married would have been?

Sir Cliff Richard23:03

Well it would have no effect now at all. I don't think it has any effect at all. People being married and singing now doesn't have anywhere near the effect it would have had when I started in the 50s. It was just the way it was. People would say, no, though the girls are all squealing at you, you've got to be just available for them. I mean I was dating a girl called Jean, but we came out of the theater at Finsbury Park Empire I think it was and she sat on my lap in the front of the car and I'm waving at the fans and I turned around and they were throwing the programs on the floor and stamping them in the gutter and I'm thinking, oh no no no no this is not this is I and because I was focused when I look back now it has to be that reason that that focus was not going to be changed. I was never going to give up this career that I fought heavily for and still battle when you think about it. It's still massive competition out there. Nowadays you know it doesn't matter. Gary Barlow's married and got children. No one minds and that's how it should have been then but it wasn't.

Presenter24:04

You also have to be tough, of course, to survive something like press speculation about your private life, which you've always been subject to, and that's been very intense at times.

Sir Cliff Richard24:13

Yes, it has been intense, but you know, I lived with it for so long now that it actually doesn't bother. I don't care anymore what they think and say. Certainly, my private life is absolutely nobody's business but mine, and I tell them that. It's time for your next disc, your sixth. Who are we going to hear? Bonnie Rayet. I remember being in New York and in the hotel that we stayed at, that I was told there was a record store, and I went down there and it was midnight, I couldn't sleep, even if jet lags horrible. I said to this guy, have you got anything that I might like, like a bluesie of guitars? And he said, I've got this. And he brought this album out, and it was Bonnie Rayet.

Sir Cliff Richard24:51

Pony Ray is still one of my favourites. Sometimes people get to say and sing the things that you sometimes can almost imagine you feeling.

Presenter25:01

Turn down the light.

Presenter25:05

Turn down the bed.

Presenter25:09

Turn down these voice

Presenter25:13

Inside my head

Presenter25:17

Play down with me

Presenter25:20

Tell me no lie

Presenter25:24

Just hold me close

Presenter25:28

Don't pay trench

Presenter25:31

Bonnie Raid and I Can't Make You Love Me. So Sir Cliff Richard, you've said of August 14th, 2014 that it was the day your life changed forever and that was following a raid on your home in Berkshire by the South Yorkshire Police. They were investigating historic sex abuse allegations and the BBC filmed the raid from a helicopter and it was broadcast on television around the world. What do you remember about that day?

Sir Cliff Richard25:58

Oh, I can remember the phone ringing in the kitchen of my house in Portugal and I was with a group of people visit when my friends were staying with me and it was the guy that manages the apartment block and he said, the police are here and they have a warrant to search your apartment. So I said, well you can't stop them going in because they have the right to smash the door down if they want to. I said, let them go in, they're not going to find anything. There was a TV in one of the rooms, so we looked at the TV and that's when I saw the raid. I saw that helicopter outside the apartment block.

Sir Cliff Richard26:34

It was a horrible, horrible time. I can't begin to tell you. We had a terrible drive home and when we got back, the place was surrounded by paparazzi. They were everywhere. There's three entrances to the house and they were all crowding around everything. And I realized it was something serious. And the second day after having come back, I was in the kitchen and I felt my knees, my legs gave way and I collapsed on the floor. I've never fainted or anything and I didn't faint, but I couldn't stand up. And I found myself absolutely weeping like a child. I was never suicidal, but I thought a couple of times I might die because I used to wake up with my pulses on your wrist, the head, the heart thumping like crazy. And I'm thinking, I don't want to kill myself, but this could kill me.

Speaker 227:15

The h

Sir Cliff Richard27:23

But I survived it all, and that's the main thing for me, and I'm past it now.

Presenter27:27

Hmm.

Sir Cliff Richard27:27

And I don't think I'll ever get over it, though. It's not something that you can wipe from your memory.

Presenter27:34

So you weren't charged, the case was dropped, and in twenty seventeen you settled with South Yorkshire Police, and you won your privacy case against the BBC the following year. What did those outcomes mean to you?

Sir Cliff Richard27:44

Every now and then somebody might get the chance to perhaps change something, and I'd like to think that when I won that court case against the BBC, it means that they would have to think really hard if ever they wanted to do something like that again.

Presenter28:00

Let's take a break for some more music. Your seventh disc. What are we going to hear and why are you taking this with you to the island?

Sir Cliff Richard28:06

I've chosen this particular song because I went through that period in my life where I thought I was absolutely lost.

Sir Cliff Richard28:14

But I I've kept telling myself, I will survive this, I will survive this. So I've loved the Bee Gees forever and I love them more now, and I definitely will play this song really loudly.

Speaker 428:30

I walk I'm a woman's man. No time to talk

Sir Cliff Richard28:33

Music loud, women walking kicked around to sound what

Sir Cliff Richard28:48

Uh

Presenter28:58

The B Gee's and Staying Alive. So, Cliff Richard, it's almost time to cast you away. Now, your first outing to the island back in nineteen sixty. When you took that, you said you weren't sure how you'd cope. Obviously, you've spent quite a lot of time in Barbados since then. Do you think you'd be better equipped to handle living on an island?

Sir Cliff Richard29:17

I'll miss not having friends around me. I'll miss not being able to cook proper meals or have proper meals cooked for me. And I'd miss tennis terribly. But I think I could cope pretty well. I mean, I'm fairly good at being when I did the lockdown first, five weeks locked up in in Barbados, and I dealt with that pretty well. So I think I'll I'd probably enjoy the first month or two.

Speaker 229:23

But

Presenter29:43

Now, Cliff, of course it's Christmas and you are as much a part of the season as reindeer jumpers and mince pies. Your hip mistletoe and wine was the biggest selling single of nineteen eighty eight, but I know that when the song first came to you it had quite a different meaning.

Sir Cliff Richard29:58

Well, I got a phone call from my then manager Peter Gormley. He died some years back now. And he said, look, I want you to come and listen to a song. I think this is a smash hit record. And it came from a show called The Little Match Girl. And it had lyrics like a smile and a joke, a hug and a smoke. It was a sort of a pub song. But it had this mistletone wine chorus. And I said, well, all I did was change a couple of lines to make it sound more Christmassy. And that's about all. But I thought, yes, Peter Gormley was right. I thought this was a possible top ten, hopeful top five, dream on number one. But it went to number one and it was terrific. And I think partly it was not only the lyrics, it was also the fact that it was in a waltz temper. There's something about meh, people sway to waltzes all the time.

Presenter30:49

Obviously, none of us know how this Christmas is going to be. It'll be very different. That's all we can say at this stage. How do you hope to spend yours?

Sir Cliff Richard30:58

I'll be back in Barbados. The first year I went to live in Barbados, I had a big tree brought in, a fake one of course. I had to shower twice while I was decorating it. It was just so hot, it seemed so ridiculous to be Christmas and you're feeling sweaty and hot. But otherwise, Christmas is really about family and friends.

Presenter31:20

And we've got one more disc to share before we send you off to the island. What's it going to be?

Sir Cliff Richard31:24

I want you to let me take High Water Everywhere by Joe Bonamasa. He is a fantastic guitarist. He's an outrageously wild singer. And deep down inside of me there's a little part of me that says, oh, I wish I could do that. I wish I was able to do that kind of music. So I can pretend it's me.

Sir Cliff Richard31:47

Mm-hmm.

Sir Cliff Richard31:49

Water everywhere on the river

Sir Cliff Richard32:01

Well this happens.

Sir Cliff Richard32:03

Order everywhere, Lord to River overflow.

Presenter32:16

High Water Everywhere by Joe Bonamasser

Presenter32:19

Sir Cliff Richards, we're about to cast you away. Now, to help you cope with island life, we are of course going to send you away with three books: the complete works of Shakespeare, the Bible, and a book of your choice. What would you like?

Sir Cliff Richard32:31

Mothering Heights by Emily Bronte. Because it would put me in mind of school and a teacher that I had there, Jay Norris, and she kind of taught us all to understand and enjoy reading. And because I did the show Heathcliff and thoroughly enjoyed it, because for those moments on stage, for the first time ever in my life, I was not Cliff Richard. I had become this horrific book character.

Presenter32:55

It's yours. You can also take a luxury item to help you pass the time more enjoyably. What would you choose as a special treat?

Sir Cliff Richard33:03

I would choose, if it's possible, my Gibson acoustic guitar.

Presenter33:08

Mm-hmm.

Sir Cliff Richard33:08

That's a beautiful guitar I bought it in 1959.

Sir Cliff Richard33:11

And it's got a very, very gentle sound, and I'd love to have that as a luxury.

Presenter33:15

Absolutely, it's yours. And finally, if you had to save just one of your eight discs from being washed away, which would you go for?

Sir Cliff Richard33:24

I think I'd go for the gospel one. I'd go for it is well. I would need to know that God was with me. You know, I would feel safe and I would feel well.

Presenter33:36

Sircliffe Richard, thank you so much for sharing your Desert Island discs with us and, however you spend it, we're wishing you a very Merry Christmas.

Sir Cliff Richard33:43

Thank you so much, and I hope you have a lovely one too.

Presenter33:59

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sir Cliff. As it's his second trip to the island, he should know where the tastiest coconuts are and which palm trees have the most shade. You'll have heard Cliff talk about his arch rivals, the Beatles. Well, Sir Paul McCartney was cast away by Sue Lowley in 1982, and he chose Heartbreak Hotel as one of his aid tracks, too. Interesting. You can hear Sir Paul's programme and those of a host of other musicians and singers, including Tom York, Bruce Springsteen, Melanie C., Yousaf Kat Stevens, Debbie Harry, and Lily Allen via BBC Sounds. Next time, my guest will be Colonel Lucy Giles. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 234:38

I know you just want to hear your show, but this won't take long.

Speaker 234:41

I'm Miles, the producer of Radio 4's Tricky Podcast.

Speaker 234:46

And it works like this.

Speaker 234:48

Four people from across the UK meet up and without a presenter breathing down their necks, talk about issues they really care about.

Speaker 434:56

Because sex work is quite complicated for a lot of people and it's okay to be against it but not to shame someone because of their profession.

Speaker 235:05

Across the series we'll hear anger, shock and even the odd laugh.

Speaker 235:10

Another thing that really gets to me is when people say, I know what we need to do. I know what black people, shut up. You don't like, that's the thing, that's not how it works. Nobody knows. If you knew, you would have done it.

Sir Cliff Richard35:18

How would work?

Speaker 235:21

Discover more conversations like this by searching Trick A on BBC Sounds.