Baroness Floella Benjamin

Speaker 20:01

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.

Presenter0:04

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were castaway to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:42

My castaway this week is the broadcaster and politician Baroness Floella Benjamin. A beloved presenter of children's television since the mid seventies, for those of us who grew up with her, she was one of the family, as much a part of British childhood then as school dinners, skinned knees and top of the pops. Part of the Windrush generation, she was born in Trinidad and made the two week journey to the UK by sea when she was 10 years old, accompanied only by her siblings. Reunited with her parents in London, she found a love of performing as a singer and appeared in many West End musicals before becoming the presenter of Play School in 1976. It was the beginning of a long career presenting and later producing children's television.

Presenter1:25

She's also a passionate campaigner, working for decades with leading children's charities and received a damehood earlier this year for her services. She was the first African Caribbean woman to become Chancellor of a British University, offering a hug instead of the customary handshake to over 35,000 graduating students. And in 2010, she was inducted into the House of Lords. As Baroness Benjamin of Beckenham, she's been known to refer to younger politicians as my play school babies. She says, I've gone through the round window, the square window, and the arch window. And now, as a member of the House of Lords, I've gone through the neo-Gothic window. Who would have thought it? Baroness Floella Benjamin, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Darling, what a lovely intro. You know something? My mum used to say to me she knew I would have made it when I got invited to sit in the royal box at Wimbledon, which I did last year, and if I ever got to appear on Desert Island Discs. Sadly, she didn't live to see either of those things happen. But today, when I left my house, I found a white feather. And I always find a white feather when my mum is looking over me and looking down on me and something wonderful happens. So it's great to be here today. It's wonderful to have you with us. Now, Floella TV was a different world back then. I mean, for one thing, there were just three channels. Did you have any inkling of how significant that job would be when you took it on?

Presenter2:52

None at all. When I was little I wanted to be a teacher, but unfortunately I had to leave school at 16 to go and work in a bank and I didn't become a teacher. But I realized in play school I did become a teacher to millions of children, you know, teaching them about music, teaching them about poetry, dance, making things. In fact, Play School was a bit like a mini culture show. It had everything there and it was a window to the world for the children. It opened their eyes. And I remember one day saying to the producer back in 1976 I think it was, all the illustrations that you see on the screen when I tell a story are all of white children. Can't we have some black and Asian and Chinese faces? Because I want the children out there to feel they belong to that culture. To give her aduse, it got changed that very day. And if you don't see yourself, how do you know you belong? How do you know you're important?

Presenter3:47

Floella, you're sharing your music with us today. Now, you mentioned that it would be a huge deal to your mum to be on Desert Island discs, but I'm imagining that your dad would have been pretty impressed too because he was a jazz musician and I think actually named you after one of his favourite artists. That's right, he named his children after musicians: Lester Young, my brother Leicester, Duke Ellington, Ellington, me, Ella, Ella Fitzgerald. For now, Floella, I think we better get into the music. What are we going to hear first? Oh, my first disc is The Greatest Love of All by George Benson. This song represents my beloved parents who poured love into me every day when I was a child. And I believe that.

Presenter4:24

This is the message that needs to be passed on to children, not just your own children, but to all children. And I think every new parent should be given the words to this song when they bring a child into the world, because childhood lasts a lifetime.

Presenter4:40

I believe the children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside.

Presenter4:55

Give them a sand

Presenter4:58

Of pride.

Presenter5:00

Make it easier

Presenter5:03

Let the children's laughter.

Presenter5:09

Remind us how we used to

Presenter5:14

George Benson, with the greatest love of all. So, Dame Floella Benjamin, you believe childhood lasts a lifetime, so tell us a little bit about yours. You were born in Trinidad, the second of six children, to Veronica and Roy. How do you remember your early years on the island? I loved it because, as the song said, I was wrapped with love. I used to go to school and stand in the playground and sing God save the Queen. I used to learn about Britain, British heroes, and culture. Nothing about my own, sadly. And one day my world fell apart when my dad decided he wanted to come to England.

Presenter5:51

And I would hear him and my mum arguing. My mum would say, Roy, I can't leave my children. Who's going to look after them? And my dad would say, We've got to go to England. The streets are paved with gold. They want us there. Look, there's adverts saying, Come to England. There's work for us. And so my dad left. And we cried a little bit, but we still had mommy until one day she decided, about a year after my dad left, to go to England to meet my dad.

Presenter6:17

My world fell apart that day because she left me and my sister and my two brothers with two sets of horrible foster parents who treated us so badly. But we got through it for 15 months, separated. And when we got that letter, 15 months after my mum saying we're going to England, I go, Yippee, we're going to England, the land of hope and glory. And we're going to see my mum again and my dad and be a family all over again, which was wonderful. You call it the land of hope and glory. You said you overheard them talking about the importance of kind of going to build a better life for the family. But what did they tell you directly about what was happening? Nothing. When they came to Britain and found it wasn't like that, the streets weren't paved with gold. The British people didn't know anything about you. And even though you knew all about them, no one actually told you that back home. You still lived in hope. But because you were kind of almost indoctrinated, believing that Britain was your country, that you believed it. So we came into the lion's den.

Presenter7:23

Not realizing when we came to England what we're going to have to face, who was going to insult us. And it was on a daily basis having to have this kind of racial abuse as a 10-year-old child walking down the streets knowing which grown man would be calling you a name or being horrible to you. It's tough being black. It's tough having to face that, especially as a child. But it makes you resilient. See? You know, had this sick sense about who was going to actually harm you, who was going to be horrible to you. We'd go to a shop and no one would serve you and you'd have to stand there waiting to be served. And you knew you couldn't leave because my mum would say, go back to the shop until they serve you.

Baroness Floella Benjamin7:41

Hmm.

Presenter8:01

Floella, it's time for your second disc today. What's it gonna be? I've chosen Waiting in Vain by Bob Marley, because I love Bob Marley. I think he's a poetic genius. And when my kids were little, we used to play his Legend C D as we drove along, especially on our French holidays, and we would sing songs and play games in the car, and we all had our favourite. One Love was my husband's, Stir It Up was my daughter Alvina's, and Exodus was my son's Aston's, and mine was Waiting in Vain, and everybody had to be quiet.

Presenter8:37

to hear the intro of this song.

Presenter8:39

One, two.

Baroness Floella Benjamin8:56

And I wanna win

Presenter9:15

Waiting in Vain, Bob Marley and the Whalers. Baroness Flolla Benjamin, as you mentioned, you learned a lot about waiting when you were just a little girl, so I'd like to know a bit more about the many months that you spent with foster parents in Trinidad waiting for that call to join your own mum and dad in England. The British Jamaican photographer Vandy Burke told me that when he was growing up, the waiting kids, like him, were called the left behinds. You were just eight. How did you cope?

Presenter9:41

Well, I coped because I knew I was loved and I had that confidence that it will get better. Adversity can either make you stronger

Presenter9:51

Or break you. And my mum taught us how it should never break you. It should always make you stronger. And the people who were horrible to me, I don't hate them. You know, I just think, oh my goodness, me, why couldn't you see life was worth being better? Did it take some time to get there though, Floella? I mean, I I think with the benefit of hindsight and perhaps after time has passed it it's possible to get there but in the moment it's very difficult to have that perspective isn't it?

Presenter10:17

Well, I had my sister, luckily, my sister Sandra, and my sister Sandra, she's wonderful. And both of us together, we used to hold hands, we used to cry together, we used to know things was going to get better. And my two brothers, they had it worse than I did. They were in a different foster family, yeah. That's right. Their foster parents were really cruel. They used to make them fight for their food. Winner takes all, and if you didn't win, you didn't eat. And my brother Ellington, he was a better fighter than my brother Leicester, and he would often win, but he tried to give Lester some food. And if he did, the food would be taken and he'd got beaten. We often talk about it still, even though we're I'm 71, and I still remember a lot of those times, but we remember it where we reminisce and say, My goodness, look what we went through, but we're strong. It didn't break us. Were you able to tell your parents what had happened to you when you were reunited? It was 16 months before you saw them again. I remember writing a letter to my mum once, these blue AMA letters, and I was writing a letter to my mum. My sister Sandra and I were writing, telling her what was going on with our auntie, how wicked she was to us, and how terrible our life was at the time. All the letters were vetted, and the woman who looked after us said, Eh, all your mother gallivanting in England left to me to look after all you. All you could have been an orphanage, you know, and you're telling tales on me. Wallop, wallop. And it was scratched out. So we couldn't say anything. And so when we came to England, it was only after a while that we actually told our mother and my father what actually happened. But at the time, we knew that you had to cope with it, because if you didn't cope with it, you would go down. None of my brothers and sisters, none of us are kind of quitters. We all can face the music.

Presenter12:00

You've written about your story from Trinidad to the UK and coming to England, and that story has also been adapted to film. You were just ten, I think, when you and your siblings made the journey by boat to the UK. And it seems hard to believe, but you did travel alone, didn't you? Can you imagine health and safety today?

Presenter12:18

But it was such an adventure. Mum had paid for a childminder to look after us. No one ever looked after us, and so we were happy. We used to go and help all the sailors peel potatoes. We didn't realize we were doing their job for them, but we did it, you know. How long were you at sea? 15 days. The first sort of five days was seasickness. And I hate corn puffs and tomato soup because that's what they used to give us to eat. Oh, just the smell and the sight of it, even today. But it was such an adventure. Can you imagine it's like going to Disneyland?

Baroness Floella Benjamin12:41

Give us to eat.

Presenter12:50

The freedom of those horrible people was a thrilling journey, seeing the flying fish coming up and the seagulls and the waves flashing, you know, and it was just a feeling of adventure. I'm living it now, going to the land of hope and glory, meeting your mum again, who was like an angel to me in my life.

Presenter13:08

We've got to make some time for the music though. It's time for your third disc today. Tell us about this and why you've chosen it. Putting on the Ritz by Ella Fitzgerald. I used to love taking my mum to the Ritz and watching her make a grand entrance as though she belonged. You should see her. She was a statuess woman, beautiful woman, and she deserved everything that we could give to her, my brothers and sisters, because she dedicated her life to her six children. You know, she had three jobs in a day to try and make ends meet in order to make her children excel in the world, and we all did. And she used to choose what she was going to wear weeks before we went to the Ritz, you know, for Mother's Day or for her birthday. I used to love dancing at the Ritz to this song with my mum. I could just see her swaying now.

Baroness Floella Benjamin14:06

If you're blue and you don't know where to go to, why don't you go where fashion sits?

Baroness Floella Benjamin14:14

Putting on the ribs

Baroness Floella Benjamin14:19

Different types wear a day coat, pants with stripes, and cut away coats, perfect fits.

Baroness Floella Benjamin14:27

Putting on the rib

Presenter14:28

It's

Presenter14:31

Ella Fitzgerald and Puttin on the Ritz for you, named after her, of course, Floella Benjamin, and for your mum. Floella, your parents had come to the UK, the place that they considered and I think called the motherland, to find a better life. Tell me a bit about the welcome that they were expecting and then the reality that they found.

Presenter14:51

Well, it wasn't quite what we expected.

Presenter14:55

When I first came to Britain, I found that my parents were living in one room, and so all eight of us lived in one room. But my mum used to say, This room is full of love, and we're together as a family, we're going to make the most of it. Then we moved to Penge, where we had two rooms, and then we moved to Annerley, where we had a house, and then we moved to Becken. And my mum said, Let's upgrade. When we went to view this house on a Sunday afternoon, about 2:30 on a Sunday afternoon, we were all excited about which room we're going to have. And there was a gardener, because my mum was a great gardener. And we suddenly heard, da-da-da-da-da-da. We looked out of the window and saw police. There were police in the streets, motorbikes, panda cars, black mariahs. And the neighbours had called up the police to say black people were stealing the fixtures and fittings. So they came to arrest us.

Presenter15:45

The first policeman to arrive was on a motorbike, and when he saw us, he told the other ones, it's all right, I'll deal with this one. And it turned out that he was married to a Ghanaian doctor, and the same thing had happened to her when she went to look at a house. So he understood the situation, and we got friendly with him, became friends with him. But my mum said, You know something, we're going to buy this house, we're going to live in this house. And she lived there for 40 years, and in fact, she died in that house of bowel cancer. That's why I'm the patron of bowel cancer. And she and my dad, my dad died a year before she did, and they're both buried in Beckenham Cemetery. So I went to the cemetery when I became a baroness, and I said, Mommy, daddy.

Presenter16:26

I'm going to claim Beckenham for you. I'm going to call myself Baroness Benjamin of Beckenham. There, it's yours.

Presenter16:33

Because they had worked so hard to get me where I am and it's a shame they didn't get to see it. Floella, you're laughing when you tell that story now, and you know, I can hear the the smile in your voice, but it must have been an absolutely horrible experience. How did you feel at the time?

Presenter16:50

We had joy in our homes. It was joyful. Joyful within your home existence. You knew when you left your wonderful environment, your loving environment, and you stepped out the front door, you knew you were going to have to face whatever abuse came at you. If you're prepared for whatever comes in life, then you can cope with it. One of the joys that you mentioned in family life must have been music. Your dad was a jazz musician, named you after Ella Fitzgerald, and he was a saxophonist. So in London at the time, did that mean that he would go up to Soho to find work? Very much so. He found some work with some of the big bands, you know, Ted Heath Band. He actually formed his own band afterwards. He played music up and down the country in this country, in Germany, in Sweden, in Africa. So he had a full life. In fact, there was one group he was with called the Mohicans, and on the bill was the Rolling Stones. They were the Support Act. The Stones supported him. Yes, later on, you know, my mum got fed up with him going up abroad, you know, everywhere. And, you know, my mum said, Roy, you can't keep gallivanting around the world. We've got six children. You've got to come and find a proper job here in England. And so he worked for British Rail during the day. And in the evenings, on weekends, he would form his own band, and his band would go and play music all over the country. And let's have some more music, shall we? Disc number four, what are we going to hear and why? It's a song called Once by Stan Goetz. And my dad was a great saxophonist, as he said. And he used to give me records as birthday presents. And one of them was the Stan Goetz album Voices. And a track on the album is called Once. And I associated that with my darling husband, Keith. You know, and we met.

Presenter18:42

fifty years ago and we've been together ever since and we used to play this particular track over and over again on our red plastic portable record player. It's our signature tune and it's just as sentimental to us today. We haven't got uh the record player anymore, but we've got the album.

Presenter19:34

Once by Stan Goetz for your husband Keith, Fluella Benjamin. What a glorious track. How did you and Keith meet?

Presenter19:42

Oh, I remember the day quite clearly. I used to work in a bank and I wanted to be the first black woman bank manager. You know, I was the first woman employee to wear trousers in a bank back in 1967. And for two years, three years, I worked in a bank and I realized that that dream was a fantasy, not reality. And I saw an advert for singers and dancers wanted for a musical touring the country. And I thought, well, I can sing and I can dance. So I went for this musical and this audition in my lunch hour. And I wore this Page Boy wig and a short skirt. And I went for this job. And I sang for them. And then they said, can you move? And I said, of course I can move. Well, I went one way and the wig went the other way.

Presenter20:28

It was huge laughter on the stage. And then they said, Can I read? And I said, Yes, of course. But I looked at my watch and I realized it was my lunch hour. And so I said to them, I'm really sorry. I don't know who you are out there, but I've got to go now because I've got a proper job in a bank. And if you want me, I want £30 a week and I'm not taking my clothes off. And they said, but you got to. This is hair. And I said, I don't care what it is. My mum wouldn't like it. And so one of the people who was involved with hair was Keith. He is stage management because I got the job. So that's how Keith came into your life. Tell us a little bit about how you made the move from musical theatre to play school. You'd had bit parts in various TV dramas. What kind of roles were you looking for at the time? Well, I blagged my way into getting a role in a drama corps within these walls at Google Withers. And I played a 16-euro shoplifter. And I said to the producer one day, why do black people always have to play thieves and prostitutes and bus drivers? Can't we play other parts, professional doctors and lawyers? And he said to me, That's not realistic.

Presenter21:38

I thought to myself, well, it is realistic because that's what my family, my family are all professional people. And that's when I started fighting for diversity on our screens, way back in 1973, 74. Because I worked in the theatre a lot and I worked, you know, in dramas, I used to watch children's television. And I'm thinking to myself, I'd love to do that. And one day I went for an audition, and I remember the audition I went to, I wore this bubbly wig because I was doing a play with Kenneth Williams where I wore a bubbly wig. I went for this job, went for a play school audition, and I was telling the producer what I can do and what I couldn't do. And I could see I wasn't really impressing her that much. So I leant forward and I said, oh, by the way, I don't really look like this, you know. And she said, oh, what do you mean? And I went, this is what I really look like. And I'll whip my wig off.

Baroness Floella Benjamin21:43

Peace.

Presenter22:26

Down came a thousand beads, you know, and she went, Oh my goodness, that's incredible. And the rest is history. You know, I had a lovely time on Play School. I didn't realize just how much it would change my life. And now I'm known as a lady from Play School. Let's take a moment for some more music. This is your fifth disc today, then. What are we going to hear next? Ah.

Presenter22:47

When they begin the begin by Julio and Glesius.

Presenter22:50

I adore this song. I actually go into raptures whenever I hear it. I grab my husband and I say, come on, dance with me. And he doesn't like dancing, but he does dance this song with me. And I tell him, I'll lead, you follow.

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:08

When they began

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:13

The baby

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:16

It was in the wind.

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:20

Las Corsás desi win mu pa.

Speaker 323:28

Uh

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:28

Yeah.

Speaker 323:29

Yeah, I think

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:33

You don't want to be

Baroness Floella Benjamin23:36

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Presenter23:40

Julio Iglesias and begin the begin. You said that from your earliest days working in television, it was in your mind to push for better on-screen representation, to push for diversity, and it's something that you've advocated for many years. How easy is it to do that while working within systems? Can you challenge them from the inside? It was very tough. I was told, shut up, or you never work again. You get...

Presenter24:07

Knockdown, yes. But you have to have that self-belief that you're going to rise. And a lot of the things that I said way back, you know, 40 odd years ago, is happening now. But now things are changing and it's wonderful. We've all got to take personal responsibility to make change. And change will never happen. There's going to be lasting change if not everybody's in it together. It's time for your sixth disc today. What are we going to hear next and why have you chosen it? Oh, I love this. When I hear about it, I think who would have thought?

Presenter24:37

The Prince of Denmark's March, the version by London Gabrielle Bras Ensemble. And this ceremonial music was played for the procession as I entered the great hall for the graduation ceremony at Exeter University, where I was Chancellor for ten years. And I would be wearing a robe that was once belonging to the British Prime Minister, the Marquess of Salisbury. And one of the most memorable occasions that happened to me during that period of time was when the Queen was there. The Queen visited for her Diamond Jubilee, being the Chancellor to host her. And afterwards we sat and we had lunch together and we exchanged stories. And she told me all about her family. We talked about food, about children, about the House of Lords. So I told her my story. And I said, you know, mum, when I was a little girl in Trinidad, I used to sing God Save the Queen.

Presenter25:31

But how badly I was treated when I came to England.

Presenter25:34

And now, here we are, sitting together having lunch. Who would have thought?

Presenter25:38

We really, really hit it off together, her and I. It was a great occasion. And interestingly, when she left.

Presenter25:45

I found a white feather. That meant my mum was looking down on me, saying, There's my little girl. Who would a thought, eh?

Presenter26:55

Prince of Denmark's March by Jeremiah Clarke, performed by the London Gabrielle Brass Ensemble. Dame Fluella Benjamin, that track taking you back to your time as Chancellor of the University of Exeter over ten years. And you had your own style of interacting with the students, I believe. When I first got the role, I said to them, listen, I don't shake hands, you know, I hug and I have to do things my way. And I used to hug each graduate and say, go out and change the world. Make a difference. Make me proud. Make yourself proud. Make your family proud. How much have you had to adapt your approach to the Lords then? You became a Life peer in 2010. You're a Liberal Democrat peer and Baroness Benjamin of Beckenham.

Presenter27:37

I've got politics in my DNA because my grandfather was a Deputy Prime Minister of Antigua many years ago and very much a union man. My uncle, you know, he was also involved in politics. He was the mayor of Bolton. And my father is very much a union man as well. And so our whole house was always talking about politics, about what you can do to the world, how you can make that difference.

Presenter28:03

You've become well known for your campaigns for children and young people. What are you focusing on at the moment? Something that really is very close to me is getting age verification onto strategy books, because age verification is making sure that children cannot access online pornography just with a click of a button.

Presenter28:23

We're almost there, and I feel, you know, we've got the online's harm bill that's coming up, which I'm going to be working really hard to make sure that children are at the heart of the matter. So time for some more music, Floella Benjamin. This is your seventh disc. Why have you chosen it?

Presenter28:38

Are you gonna go my way? Because not many people know that I'm a rock chip.

Presenter28:45

I used to be the singer of the author, Ken Follitz Band, and we used to perform, you know, for charities all over the world, including the Graduation Ball, you know, Exeter University. And the words to this song represents what I used to say to the graduates during the ceremony. And at the graduation ball, they would throw flowers at me and chant, change the world, change the world, and sing along with me to this song. I remember it so well.

Presenter29:18

Go.

Presenter29:23

I'm gonna go.

Presenter29:26

And I won't leave it till I'm done.

Baroness Floella Benjamin29:32

Uh

Presenter29:32

You got the tag!

Presenter29:34

We got the breathing of the b

Baroness Floella Benjamin29:35

Uh

Presenter29:36

Uh

Presenter29:37

Uh

Baroness Floella Benjamin29:37

Uh

Presenter29:38

I'm not playing.

Presenter29:39

I play this game, and I won't stop until I'm done.

Presenter29:47

Lenny Krabbits, are you going to go my way? Lockdown has been a a challenging time, but perhaps a a bit of a kind of trial run for being on the desert island. How have you coped? And have you learned anything new about yourself?

Presenter30:00

Not really. You know, at the age of 71, I know myself pretty well. I'm a marathon runner. And when you run marathons, you live through anything that's challenging. You live through anything that's worrying you. Because, you know, when you get to six miles especially, something wonderful happens. You suddenly, your feet aren't touching the ground and you're floating. And so I'm accustomed to having to explain myself. I'm accustomed to visualizing. I'm accustomed to throwing my mind beyond the horizon and coming back, listening to the voice in my head, you know, that good voice, that bad voice. It's almost like Star Wars, you know, that battle that you have with yourself, the challenge that you have and how you're going to cope with it. So being alone, you know, I think, you know, I'm going to maybe find some inhabitants, you know, maybe animals, talk to the birds. When I'm in the garden during lockdown, a robin's always sitting by my feet and I talk to the robin. Before we send you there, time for one more disc today. It's your eighth desert island disc. What's it going to be?

Presenter30:56

Smile.

Presenter30:58

My Nat Kinko.

Presenter30:59

Whenever I travel around the country giving inspirational talks, you know, to organizations I and to schools or to universities, I always finish with this song, To Motivate and Inspire People to Never Give Up.

Presenter31:12

And I've always been determined to be a winner, to succeed in the end, no matter how long it took me, to carry no hatred or resentment, but to have a happy, contented heart that overcomes everything. You can overcome everything with a smile.

Baroness Floella Benjamin31:29

Uh

Presenter31:29

Small.

Baroness Floella Benjamin31:30

Mm-hmm.

Presenter31:31

Uh

Baroness Floella Benjamin31:32

Though your heart is aching

Baroness Floella Benjamin31:36

Smile even though it's breaking

Baroness Floella Benjamin31:42

When there are clouds

Baroness Floella Benjamin31:46

In the sky you'll get by

Presenter31:52

If you smile through your fear and sorrow

Presenter31:59

Smile and

Presenter32:01

Smile by the great Nat King Cole. Baroness Floella Benjamin, it's time to cast you away. To help you settle in on the island, of course we'll send you away with three books, the complete works of Shakespeare, the Bible, and a book of your choice as well. What would you like to take with you?

Presenter32:16

I'd like to take Barack Obama's Dreams from My Father. It's a wonderful book that illustrates that saying who would have thought. And you know, when I met President Obama in Parliament in twenty eleven, I hugged him.

Presenter32:30

And I said thank you for inspiring children to believe in themselves, to never give up, to give them hope. And that's what this book is all about. It's about hope. It's also about the importance of cultural identity and belonging. It's about understanding your responsibility to yourself.

Presenter32:47

The world

Presenter32:49

And how political decisions affect generations to come. That's what Dreams from My Father is all about. And we have to thank Barack Obama for giving us this book. Is Barack Obama a good hugger? Not many people have never spoken to anyone who hugged him before. What's it like? Actually, he was quite skinny. I was quite surprised how slim he has such a slight frame. But I know he's a hugger because his wife's a hugger. She's hugging everybody. So I knew he wouldn't mind me hugging him, and he really hugged me back. You can also take a luxury item to help you pass the time more enjoyably. What would you like? I'm sure you're going to say no, but it would have been my husband if I had the choice. If only. We can't give you Keith. He's got to stay at home. I know. He is the ultimate luxury item. Every woman should have a Keith in their life. But seeing that I can't take Keith, you know, I'll take him with him in spirit. But I'm going to take something he knows I always take with me, and that is my neck cushion. I take it everywhere I go in the world, so I get a good, comfortable, relaxing night's sleep. I sleep for eight hours a night. You need your sleep to get your beauty sleep. You know, I even use it when I'm lying on the beach, and I'm sure there's going to be a beach somewhere on this desert island, so it's definitely going to be in my backpack. Well, that I can do. And finally, if you had to save just one of your eight tracks from being washed away, which would you go for?

Baroness Floella Benjamin33:56

So it's definitely a good idea.

Presenter34:07

It's got to be just one song, because it starts at the very beginning. Everything starts with children. So it's got to be the greatest love of all. George Benson, wonderful. Baroness Floella Benjamin, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you for having me. I enjoyed every moment. I loved it. I loved it. And my mum will be so pleased.

Presenter34:40

Hello, I really hope you enjoyed that interview with Baroness Fluella Benjamin and I do hope she's comfy with her neckrest on the island. We've cast many Baronesses away over the years. They include Baroness Hellich, Baroness Doreen Lawrence and Baroness Helen Newlove. You can hear their programmes if you search through BBC Sounds. Next time my guest will be Professor Avril Mansfield, the UK's first female professor of surgery. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 335:17

I know you just want to hear your show, but this won't take long.

Speaker 335:20

I'm Miles, the producer of Radio 4's Tricky Podcast.

Speaker 335:25

And it works like this.

Speaker 335:27

Four people from across the UK meet up and without a presenter breathing down their necks, talk about issues they really care about.

Speaker 235:35

Because sex work is quite complicated for a lot of people and it's okay to be against it but not to shame someone because of their profession.

Speaker 335:44

Across the series we'll hear anger, shock and even the odd laugh.

Speaker 335:48

Another thing that really gets to me is when people say, I know what we need to do. I know what black people shut up. You don't like, that's the thing, that's not how it works. Nobody knows. If you knew, you would have done it.

Presenter35:57

How it works.

Speaker 336:00

Discover more conversations like this by searching Trick A on BBC Sounds.