Melanie C

Melanie C0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Presenter0:04

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:44

My castaway this week is the singer and songwriter Melanie Chisholm, better known as Melanie C. She's one-fifth of the hundred million-selling pop phenomenon that is the Spice Girls. In the 90s, they struck gold with Girl Power, scoring nine number one singles and becoming the most commercially successful female group of all time. Melanie was Sporty Spice, but plenty of other adjectives work equally well to describe her. Talented and determined, for example. After the group imploded, she overcame depression to carve out a successful solo career and earned five-star reviews from the toughest theatre critics in the business for her role in the musical Blood Brothers. Recently, she's been back on stage with the Spice Girls on their Spice World Stadium tour, receiving a rapturous response from fans. She says, Being part of something as huge as the Spice Girls, first of all, you have to get your head round it, then it stops, and then you've got to get your head round that. Melanie Chisholm, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much.

Melanie C1:40

Very much. Now, I've promised myself that I'm not going to cry, but I feel emotional already listening to all that. You forget what you.

Presenter1:43

Real emotional.

Presenter1:45

Glistening

Presenter1:47

You've done. You seem to have got your head around that through lots of hard work, writing, recording, performing, touring, releasing your own material. You never seem to stop. And taking on musical theatre, of course. Have you always been a grafter?

Melanie C2:00

Uh

Melanie C2:01

Um yeah, I think it's from my upbringing really. I'm from very working class background, and my mum used to work during the week and then she was out gigging at the weekend. So I've just always been aware that you you've got to work hard to get by. You once said you felt embarrassed about being as ambitious as you were. Why was that?

Melanie C2:19

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Because I think when you're a child, you only know what you know when you, I think you're the real true essence of who you are when you're a kid before you know the world kind of beats you down. And I suppose I just got to a point and I saw that ambition as being a little bit embarrassing. I don't know why. I think I just started to question myself and who I am. And I tried to like rekindle that little girl inside me because I think it's really important we remember who we were at that time because that's who we really are. And I'm not afraid or embarrassed about ambition anymore.

Presenter2:53

Who are your fans now when you you play those stadium shows with Spice Girls?

Melanie C2:57

We have a really strong following that have continued to support us throughout all of our solo careers and everything that we all do, who are in their 30s now, who grew up with us. But what surprised us at the stadium shows was there were mums, there were grandmothers, there were children, there was a new generation, and it was predominantly women. And I think obviously we have an incredible support from the LGBTQ community. So, you know, we know we have a lot of fans there, but I think there was a real surge of girl power in June of 2019 when the Spice Girls got back on the road.

Presenter3:33

Last year as well as Spice World, you had a joyous collaboration with the LGBTQ collective, Sink the Pink, for a worldwide Pride tour. What did you get out of being on the road with them? Such an exuberant and stylish cast?

Melanie C3:45

Do you know what? That was amazing. It kind of gave me an opportunity to find more self-acceptance because I think we all have parts of ourselves that we would like to change or we're not that happy or comfortable with. And, you know, being around drag queens and non-binary people and it was such an education to me. And I just thought, you know what? Every little bit of me is just fine. And yeah, it was really liberating spending time with them. And I didn't expect to get that from it. I knew it was going to be fun and crazy and all of those things, but it was really quite profound.

Presenter4:20

You DJ as well as performing these days. The next date tracks though, you don't have to please anyone but yourself. You're on your desert island. How did you make your selection?

Melanie C4:26

Yeah.

Melanie C4:28

Oh my gosh, it was so hard narrowing it down and I thought, I don't want to spend too much time in it because there are so many songs. You keep thinking of other ones, so it's like try and stick with the first ones you think of.

Presenter4:28

Oh my gosh!

Melanie C4:37

Well, let's hear you're first then. What can we be?

Presenter4:38

Okay.

Melanie C4:39

My first musical memories are rifling through my mum's albums, which he you know, I was really young at the time. I must have only been about eight or nine. I really don't feel like anything can top this for me.

Melanie C4:51

Stevie Wonder, Songs in the Key of Life.

Melanie C4:54

And you know, it's hard actually to pick a song on that, but I was lucky enough to tour with Jills Holland in 2013. And one of the songs we did on the show, because of course it's with the Rhythm and Blues Orchestra and he has got a great brass section and just a wonderful, wonderful band. And we performed I Wish.

Melanie C5:13

Thinking it might stop her from whooping you behind her, let's go past her.

Speaker 45:20

Come back once more, what did the day?

Speaker 45:23

Ah

Speaker 45:24

Ah ah google, but it's okay, good.

Speaker 45:29

You're mine for small, but little things, hey

Speaker 45:33

But you go, cause I love them so.

Presenter5:41

Stevie Wonder and I Wish. Melanie C., you were born in Wiston in Merseyside. You once said the area that you grew up in. I think my passions kept me out of trouble. Tell me about that. It's an area.

Melanie C5:51

Area where I suppose it's quite mixed, but there's poverty like there is everywhere, unfortunately. And I think it was quite easy to go down the wrong path and to get into trouble. And I feel really fortunate that I did have my passion of performing from a really early age, so nothing kept me away from that. I did ballet, tap modern, I did competitions.

Speaker 16:00

And tick.

Melanie C6:14

And I went on to performing arts college, so it was everything. It was all I wanted to do.

Presenter6:18

And were your parents supportive? I mean, your mum worked for the NHS, but as you've said, alongside her day job, she was also a singer herself. My mum was always like.

Melanie C6:21

As you've said

Melanie C6:25

Whatever you want to do, you know, I

Melanie C6:28

Totally support you. So, I also feel very grateful I didn't have a pushy mum because I think that sometimes can drive you away from your passion, you know. And I think my dad was more cautious. He hasn't worked, you know, in creative industries. Yes, he was an engineer. Yeah, he was.

Presenter6:42

Yes.

Presenter6:43

Yeah, it would have been quite different to have this all singing

Melanie C6:45

Yeah, so many industries are hard, but I think trying to make it in performing in any ways is difficult.

Presenter6:54

Your parents divorced when you were very small and it was amicable, but you've also spoken about the legacy that it did leave you. How how did it change you, do you think?

Presenter7:02

Yeah.

Melanie C7:02

Um, you know, thinking about my drive and determination, I do believe that comes from having my parents divorced. There was a sadness there, but I think it made me determine to succeed and and make something of myself.

Presenter7:16

And your parents both remarried happily. How was it finding your place in those two kind of new family setups?

Melanie C7:21

I have three half brothers, one on my mum's side, two on my dad's side, half sister, and then I had um two stepbrothers as well. So

Melanie C7:30

I kind of felt like a spur part sometimes, very much a you know, a a childish way to think, but I I thought maybe it'd be easy for everyone if I just wasn't here.

Presenter7:40

You mentioned your half-sister. She unexpectedly came into your life a little bit later. How did that happen?

Melanie C7:45

My dad had fathered a girl years before, but had, you know, the relationship hadn't worked out and he hadn't kept in touch. And it's a crazy story, but a tabloid newspaper got hold of the story and basically said to my dad, Well, either you tell her or we will. Yeah, so he told me.

Melanie C8:05

And then, yeah, I went to meet her. She was fifteen at the time. I was in my early twenties. So ninety six, probably till around two thousand with the girls, it was so intense and our lives were so

Melanie C8:19

Bizarre.

Melanie C8:20

That

Melanie C8:21

It was almost like...

Melanie C8:24

There was this press intrusion, but it felt like that was the way it was, and you gotta deal with it. So when I met my sister, the newspaper actually were there.

Melanie C8:34

And they photographed us and interviewed us. And when I think about that now, I just think, what? Why on earth did I agree to that? And why did anybody allow me to do that? You know, it's insane. I'm so private now. And oh God, it just makes me cringe and shudder to think about it. But it's just the way it was. That was like my normal everyday life that I would have a tablet newspaper just follow me around to do something really personal and heart-wrenching. And it's so bizarre, isn't it? So weird. Did it affect your relationship with your dad? It did actually. My dad worked away a lot. So, you know, my mum really did all the tough stuff. And my dad, I had, you know, I saw him at weekends. I went away in the summer with him. So he was just like the wonderful dad who I did all the fun stuff with. So I had him on this pedestal. And then he'd kept a secret from me for 15 years. And it kind of.

Melanie C9:23

It took me a few years to get over it because I felt betrayed. You know, I kind of felt like my childhood had been a bit of a lie. Now it's a wonderful, positive thing because I adore her. I've got two beautiful nephews and there's a really happy ending, but it was a really, really difficult beginning. It's time to go to the music, Melanie. What are we going to hear next? And why have you chosen it? Oh, gosh, are we only on the second song? Second it.

Presenter9:45

Yeah.

Melanie C9:47

Well, this one is a great childhood memory. My best friend at school, and to this day, Alison, I know you'll be listening. I used to go to her house after school. We danced together all the time. And they used to have this loft where it was kind of like the playroom, homework room, and the record player was in there as well. And the album we always used to play was Fleetwood Mac Rumours. And the tune we loved, and it is, oh, I mean, to hear it now, it's just such a wonderful song. The change.

Presenter10:46

Fleetwood Mac and the Chains. So Melanie C, you started going to dance classes while listening to Fleetwood Mac when you were eight. You were also a gymnast and let's not forget, of course, the school plays. Where did all that energy come from, do you think?

Melanie C10:59

I don't know. I literally

Presenter11:01

Never sat still. When you were sixteen, you moved to Kent to study musical theatre at the Doreen Bird College of Performing Arts. Now sixteen's obviously very young to leave home. How did you get on?

Presenter11:11

I was sorry.

Melanie C11:11

So single minded, I didn't even think about it.

Melanie C11:14

Of course I missed home and I missed my mum, but I was just so excited about my future. And what were your expectations for yourself? What did you see yourself doing? My dream always was to work in music. I wanted to be a recording artist.

Melanie C11:26

And I knew that was really hard. You know, my mum had had experiences. She was signed in the seventies to decor with a band.

Melanie C11:32

And it hadn't worked out for her.

Melanie C11:35

So I thought, I know what I'll do. Much more realistic job is to work in the West End. Little did I know, to get a job in the West End itself is really, really hard. You know, it's a super competitive environment. There's loads of super talented people everywhere.

Melanie C11:50

So when I left college and started auditioning, I wasn't getting that many callbacks. You know, I didn't really get a great job.

Presenter11:59

The advert that changed everything came in 1994. It had been placed in the stage newspaper, and I think it it came to you actually as a flyer. Someone handed you a copy of it. Where were you?

Melanie C12:08

What happened? I was in Danceworks and I was there auditioning for a cruise. I'd done my audition, I was sitting in the cafe with my friend and I was handed a flyer. Are you sixteen to twenty four? Can you dance, sing, are you fun? Blah, blah, blah. And it was for a girl band.

Melanie C12:28

And I turned to my friend and I said,

Melanie C12:31

That's what I'm gonna do.

Melanie C12:32

And that went on to be the Spice Girls.

Melanie C12:35

Well, we'll talk more about that in a minute for now. I think we've ba

Presenter12:36

Now I think we'd better take a note.

Melanie C12:37

The

Presenter12:38

The track what have you got?

Melanie C12:38

Uh

Presenter12:38

But for

Melanie C12:39

Well, this artist, the lead singer of this band, was the first poster on my wall. I think he was my first crush. Good truss. And yeah, I would remember boys on one side, girls on the other side, and there was a dance we used to do, everyone who knows knows when you hear this song.

Presenter12:46

Yeah.

Speaker 412:57

Starling, ridiculous, there's nothing to be said on whatsoever.

Speaker 413:05

But it's got me in dandy, show me your hands over

Speaker 413:12

Oh hey.

Presenter13:20

Adam and the Ants and Prince Charming. So, Melanie C., you were chosen after the audition from 400 other hopefuls to join Touch, as the group was then called. And you were living together. I mean, initially, your management put you all in this house to form this friendship. How did that work? How did you get on?

Melanie C13:37

Well, the beginning was actually probably the most fun part, you know. So we we all went into it quite naïvely, I suppose. We were all very ambitious and we were very much a team. Whenever we're asked, like, you know, when were the best times, they're like, Oh, in the beginning, in in the back of some, you know, people carrier stopping at the services on the way to a regional radio tour, you know, when

Presenter13:56

Totally

Melanie C13:57

No one knew or cared who we were.

Presenter13:59

I understand though that you were nearly booted out of the group before it even got going. Naughty spice.

Melanie C14:04

Nice. What happened? This is a funny story because I was so.

Presenter14:05

What happened?

Melanie C14:08

hurt and embarrassed about this situation. I only started talking about it recently, but it's it's actually really funny. We were at the Brits, so we all had a few um bevies and on the way out there was a little scuffle between myself and Victoria. We can't say this on air, but I asked her to go away.

Melanie C14:27

And um yeah, I was told if that behaviour ever happened again, then I'd be out.

Melanie C14:32

What made it?

Melanie C14:34

So devastating is how important it was to me to be part of the band and to achieve the things we wanted to achieve, that I wanted to achieve from being a kid, and to think that I could have messed that up and lost it all.

Melanie C14:50

I began to be really, really hard on myself. And I'm literally putting this all together in my head now. My therapist would be very proud of me. And yeah, I think that is where the start of some of my problems came because I had to be very, very strict with myself. I couldn't allow myself to relax because if I did, I might mess it all up.

Melanie C15:12

We might

Presenter15:13

Come back to that. Yeah. So touch had become the spice girls. Girl power was, of course, your rallying cry. How did that come about?

Melanie C15:19

We never started out as a girl band with the mission to talk about girl power. We started out as a girl band, wanted to get on stage, wanted to have fun, wanted to travel, wanted to meet people.

Melanie C15:31

And we were faced with sexism quite quickly, whether it was going to labels, magazines. We were told girl bands don't sell records, girls buy records, so it's all about boy bands. You can't be on the front cover of the magazine because we just won't sell enough copies. So that was where the mission began. We were like, you know what, we want to be a girl band for girls. We have a point to prove.

Presenter15:52

Yeah.

Presenter15:53

Has the meaning changed over the years? I mean, now, you know, there are people who talk about what that moment means for feminism and kind of debate about it. What are your thoughts on that?

Melanie C16:01

What I think about the Spice Girls, and especially when people talk about feminism, I think we kind of made it more digestible for young people and it's wonderful, especially to see generations growing up feeling empowered by us being up there, doing the things we were told we couldn't because we were girls. And I think that really is the legacy of the Spice Girls.

Presenter16:22

By the time Wannabe become a success, you'd walked away from your management team. Now, how you left and how you got your demo tapes back sounds like quite a caper.

Melanie C16:31

It's like

Presenter16:34

I was just wondering if you talked me through that.

Melanie C16:38

We decided to leave our very first management, but we did have some demo tapes. And I think we had all this plan worked out. We packed up everything from the house. Was Victoria going to be the decoy? Jerry was going to take the tape. She either shoved it in a bra or her knickers. It was some kind of underwear. I don't know why a pocket wouldn't do. And then we were to meet her on a roundabout. So I was in Victoria's car, so we went to meet Jerry, where Jerry was literally on the roundabout. I mean, you know, that was the caper of escaping our management. Let's take a break with some music. What have you got for us next? This was a big moment for me. Discovering this artist really made me realize what I wanted to do. Of course, Madonna. And the song I've chosen from Madonna is one for me. It's vintage. It's the authentic. It's the one I discovered. It's into the groove.

Melanie C17:33

And you can take

Presenter17:37

Right?

Speaker 417:48

Into the room.

Speaker 417:52

Yeah.

Speaker 117:56

Up on your feet, yeah, that's got you.

Presenter18:00

Madonna and Into the Groove. So, Melanie C., you as the Spice Girl signed with Virgin Records in 1995. The first album went stratospheric. There was Spice World the movie. You were on every chat show going, hobnobbing with Nelson Mandela and Prince Charles, to name but two, and still only in your early 20s. What was it like to be in the middle of that whirlwind?

Melanie C18:19

Oh wow. It was it was kind of everything. It was incredible, it was exciting, it was petrifying. Your feet just don't touch the ground.

Melanie C18:30

Almost literally, you know, we were flying from one continent to the next, one time zone to the next, and you're literally like running on empty, but it's so exciting. You're you're just living on adrenaline, I think.

Presenter18:40

The group had some very strong opinionated personalities in the mix. I'm thinking of Melby and Jerry Halliwell in particular. Where did you fit into that and how were you managing the relationships day to day? I mean

Melanie C18:51

Yeah, I I I'm always the diplomat. I like a quiet life. So I learnt quite quickly to just keep my mouth shut and keep my head down, to uh stay out of the firing line. It seems

Presenter19:02

Sounds like in recent years you've become comfortable enough to talk about some of the downsides in the early days that you might not have previously, including being bullied by one of the other band members. Why did you decide to open up after all those years?

Melanie C19:14

Um when your absolute ultimate fairy tale

Melanie C19:20

Actually, it happens to you, you feel guilty complaining about anything.

Melanie C19:25

We were on top of the world, we were the biggest band in the world and yeah, I I felt guilty about compl

Presenter19:31

Painting

Presenter19:32

You were all given nicknames Scary, Ginger Posh and Baby. Like many performers, as you've said, you're quite shy off stage. So how did that tag of kind of sporty spice stick with you?

Melanie C19:43

In the beginning, not so much the tag, but more reading about yourself and

Melanie C19:49

Wondering who that person is. And I think especially because, you know, we were in our early twenties, so I was kind of wondering who am I? Portrayed as what sort of thing? I think I was portrayed as quite gobby, yeah. Quite bullish, you know, a bit of a tomboy. Well, you know, I'm sporty and I'm athletic, but I'm quite soft and gentle, really. It was confusing.

Presenter19:57

I think that was pretty good.

Speaker 119:58

Uh

Melanie C20:09

Jerry Halliwell left the group in 1998. Was that a crisis point for the rest of you? It really was. It was a shock.

Presenter20:12

Yeah.

Melanie C20:16

And we were devastated, absolutely devastated, and we really thought she'd come back. But you know, for reasons her own reasons, she had to go. That was the time she had to go. And I you know, and I I completely respect that now. But at the time it was really difficult. And in all honesty,

Melanie C20:31

The beginning of the end for the spice

Presenter20:33

Scales, I think.

Presenter20:34

It's easy to forget, I think, that that initial quintet was together for just twenty-two months.

Speaker 420:39

I know it's quite a thing to think

Presenter20:39

I know it's quite a thing to think about. Did it feel as hectic as it looked? Yeah.

Presenter20:45

I feel tired thinking about it.

Presenter20:48

Let's get our energy back with some more music then. I think this track should Good.

Melanie C20:51

Tell us about it. Absolutely. Well, of course, the nineties, it was a great time for British music. You had the Spice Girls, but also we had Brit Pop. And I know people have their favorites who are either Blair or Oasis, but I find it really, really hard to choose. But today, I have to go for Blair and girls and boys.

Speaker 421:26

Streets like a jungle

Speaker 421:30

The call the police

Speaker 421:34

Hallow in the hearts

Speaker 421:38

That's it great.

Presenter21:44

Blur and girls and boys. So Melanie C, this was the height of the tabloid era that you were operating and that was almost the lens that, you know, the whole experience was was mediated through. And and they definitely weren't always kind to you. Did it get to you sometimes?

Melanie C21:58

Absolutely, yeah. I think I was described as like the plain one at the back that doesn't really do much, doesn't really say much. And that's really hurtful when you're a young aspiring pop star, you know, that hurts. And how did you deal with it? I tried to make myself perfect, whatever I deemed perfect to be, and I ended up making myself really ill.

Melanie C22:20

I was anorexic for a few years. I was exercising obsessively.

Melanie C22:26

And I ended up being incredibly depressed. Did people around you know? Were people around you able to support you?

Melanie C22:31

Yeah, it's difficult because I was in denial.

Melanie C22:37

And I also I didn't want anyone to help me. I just had to hide it. I was ashamed and embarrassed. But also I had no choice. That's how it felt. It was almost like.

Melanie C22:48

being how I need to be to deserve what's happened to me. So there was guilt within that, I think, as well. When did it get to a point where you thought, this is not right, something's not right, I've got to I've got to do something.

Melanie C23:00

I think my body actually took over, my mind. I went from being anorexic to having binge eating disorder.

Melanie C23:06

And I was in LA for the millennium and I was with my mum and my stepdad and my brother. I'd try and, you know, sneak off to binge. It was like this gaping hole that you just can't fill. You know, no matter how much food you eat, you can't fill this hole. Obviously, my appearance started to change, which was the biggest fear. The media are going to criticise me because I put on weight.

Melanie C23:29

And I came back to the UK and I just thought

Melanie C23:33

I've got to deal with this now.

Melanie C23:35

This has got to a point where yeah, I can't just take care of myself anymore. And that's when I went to my GP and I was diagnosed with depression.

Melanie C23:43

It was such a weight lifted off my shoulders. Ha, I'm getting upset.

Melanie C23:49

It's weird because I've spoken about this a lot, but you've usually got more of a barrier up, you know?

Melanie C23:55

It was such a relief because I thought, oh my God, there's a name for it and I can be helped. So that was kind of my the beginning of my road to recovery, which took a really long time.

Presenter24:08

Okay.

Melanie C24:09

Uh

Presenter24:09

The Spice Girls went their separate ways for a while in 2000. Do you remember that first morning after? It must have been very strange. Oh, it you know, it's it's all

Melanie C24:17

A bit cloudy because we never really officially split up. It was hiatus. Did you drift into it? Well, a decision was made, but gosh, I mean, I kind of stayed a bit longer than I wanted to. And a lot of that was because I was so unwell. I was struggling being in the company of the girls. We were doing recording sessions separately. It really got into that old rock and roll vibes. That's a separate tour buses era. It was difficult. Absolutely. Yeah, I knew I had to go because I had to sort myself out, you know, and I couldn't do it in that environment. I just couldn't. And that's no detriment to the other girls at all. You know, this is my personal stuff.

Presenter24:43

Yeah.

Speaker 124:44

Yeah.

Speaker 124:45

Good.

Melanie C24:56

Let's get the next track, What's It Gonna Be and Why? I was lucky enough to see Billie Eilish at Shepherdsbush Empire last year. It was completely sold out. It was full of predominantly young girls, teenage girls, and they were screaming for her and singing every word, every ad lib. It kind of took me back to the Spice Girls days and I think often with music it's young girls screaming for guys and to see all these girls screaming for this other girl it was quite powerful.

Presenter25:25

I had a dream.

Melanie C25:26

Uh

Presenter25:26

Mm.

Presenter25:28

I got everything I wanted.

Presenter25:32

Maud, what you think?

Presenter25:36

If I'm being honest, it might have been a nightmare.

Presenter25:42

To anyone who might

Speaker 425:48

Uh

Presenter25:48

Thought I could fly.

Presenter25:52

So I stepped off the golden

Presenter25:57

Yeah.

Presenter25:58

Billie Eilish and everything I wanted. So, Melanie C., by the time the Spice Girls took a break, you'd already been releasing work as a solo artist. How important was it for you to create something that was all yours?

Melanie C26:09

It was so important. Now, don't get me wrong, my time with the Spice Girls, it was amazing. And everything we created, I mean, there are some incredible pop songs.

Melanie C26:20

But we were a collective. As an individual, there was other things I wanted to talk about.

Melanie C26:26

So it was really nice and really cathartic to

Presenter26:28

Be able to do that. And you threw yourself into some new experiences. Tell me about performing at your first music festival. Baptism and Fire, a two-word.

Melanie C26:35

Spring to mind.

Presenter26:35

Spring to mine.

Melanie C26:36

So, V99, that's how long ago it was. Yeah, my first festival. I went into it completely naively. I thought, I've got a great record, I'm really good live, I've got an amazing band, we're gonna rock it. And I had that thing of everything on earth being chucked at me. Oh, no, yeah, what kind of thing? Bottles of things. Oh, no. One funny moment that had a lyric which was take another bite of the apple, and an apple core hit me in the chest. So, yeah, so that really was a baptism of fire. And another challenge you

Presenter26:54

What kind of thing

Speaker 126:55

Uh

Presenter26:55

No no.

Presenter27:06

Another challenge you took on. In two thousand nine, you made your West End debut starring as Mrs. Johnston in Blood Brothers. Audiences and critics gave you standing ovations and you were nominated for an Olivier Award. How important was that recognition? Do you know what?

Melanie C27:20

It was so unexpected. I got a call from a friend who had been told they were looking for a new Mrs. Johnston and would like to go and audition.

Melanie C27:29

So I went along to see Bill Kenwright, the producer, and auditioned, did my first audition in Death. What was that like? Being a Spice Girl. It was terrifying. Um, I kind of felt like it was another step towards showing there was more to me than people thought.

Speaker 127:37

What was that?

Melanie C27:48

But I had no expectations. I was doing it more to prove to myself than to anybody else. And then Bill rang me actually on the morning the reviews come out. He said, Right, girl, get down the shop. He's from Liverpool, by the way. He said, get the papers, because this is never going to happen to you again.

Speaker 128:00

He said.

Melanie C28:03

Oh, it's never going to happen again. And I was like, yeah, whatever. And I went down and we all had like five-star reviews across the board. And I was just like, wow. And to get those wonderful reviews in broadsheets, kind of, and the theatre community, to be embraced by the theatre community, you know, it was amazing. And I think people did start to look at me a bit differently. I felt like there was a newfound respect.

Melanie C28:24

Let's take a break for some music. It's your penultimate disc. What is it? Well, I'm going to stay with Musical Theatre. In 2012, I was lucky enough to play Mary Magdalene in Jesus Christ Superstar and we did an arena tour and our Judas was the wonderfully talented Tim Minchin. Oh, so many great memories, but I think the beginning of the show, the overture is so powerful.

Melanie C28:48

And then the first song, which Tim performs, um, yeah, it chills up and down the spine.

Speaker 428:54

Listen Jesus, I don't like what I say.

Speaker 428:58

All I ask is that you listen to me And remember I've been your right hand man all along

Speaker 429:09

But you have set them all on fire.

Speaker 429:13

They think they've found the new Messiah.

Speaker 429:17

And they'll hurt you when they find their arm

Presenter29:22

Tim Minchin, Heaven on Their Minds, from Jesus Christ Superstars UK Arena Tour, composed by Andrew Lloyd Webber, with lyrics by Sir Tim Rice. So, Melanie C., what's the biggest lesson that you learned, do you think, in your time as a Spice girl? There's a few.

Melanie C29:36

There's a fair few. I think the first one would be to not so much just my time as a spice girl, just but just my time on this earth, is to speak up for myself. I've spent too long being quiet. And as a spice girl, I think

Melanie C29:51

is to just really appreciate.

Melanie C29:54

Support. Even though we've had our differences, when we're together on that stage, we are formidable and we would kill for each other. And that's a really powerful thing to have. That's a pretty good lesson.

Presenter30:06

Your daughter, Scarlett, is 11 now. You've described her as your teacher.

Melanie C30:06

You're

Presenter30:10

What has she taught you, and how has motherhood changed you, do you think? Uh

Melanie C30:13

It's changed me a lot. She's made me braver, you know, she's made me stand up for myself more and make big decisions, you know, like leaving her dad was hard. But I wasn't happy and he wasn't happy and it wasn't the environment I wanted my child to grow up in. And yeah, I couldn't have done that without the strength that I got from it.

Presenter30:31

I know that you still live up to your sporty spice persona in in that you're a triathlon fiend. Ha ha. How good are you and and what's the next challenge? Oh, my last I got my PB personal best.

Melanie C30:42

at London um a few years ago. And in my age category, I think I came second. I would love to compete for Team GB. That's on my little bucket list of things to do. I just want the you know the the trisuce?

Presenter30:56

Yeah.

Melanie C30:56

Unitarian GBR.

Presenter30:58

She's a monarch Yes. Fingers crossed. Speaking of challenges, I'm about to cast you away to our desert island. What'll be the toughest challenge that you'll face there, do you think?

Presenter31:07

I think it would be miss

Melanie C31:08

To my little girl. Yeah, I quite enjoy time on my own now. You know, when you when you're a parent and you've got a busy house, do you do that thing sometimes when you walk in the house and there's no one in and you're like

Melanie C31:20

Amazing.

Melanie C31:22

Put the cellular, get the biscuits out. You know, I'd kill for one of those days.

Presenter31:28

We've got a few coming up on the island, don't worry. We've got one more track from you, Melanie. What's it going to be?

Melanie C31:33

I'm a big Liverpool supporter, have been all my life.

Melanie C31:36

And um Amfield is the most wonderful football stadium.

Melanie C31:41

You'll Never Walk Alone is such a big, big track to everybody in Liverpool, even the Evertonians. So I'd love to hear Jerry and the Pacemakers.

Melanie C31:49

Okay.

Melanie C31:52

Each other rain

Melanie C31:55

Oh come to the rain.

Melanie C32:00

Oh, your dream

Melanie C32:02

Eames be touched.

Speaker 432:05

Uh

Speaker 432:06

I am wrong. Uh

Melanie C32:07

Uh

Speaker 432:15

Come on.

Speaker 432:17

Well

Speaker 432:20

And y'all

Presenter32:22

Jerry and the Pacemakers, and you'll never walk alone except when you're being cast away to a desert island. In which case, you know, just the one set of footsteps. And that's where you're going right now, Melanie C. How do you picture your desert island?

Melanie C32:30

And that

Melanie C32:36

I definitely

Melanie C32:37

Need it to be warm. You know the the beautiful, you know, the little soundscape we have at the beginning of the show? That really evokes palm trees, doesn't it? White sand.

Presenter32:42

The show.

Presenter32:45

Mm-hmm.

Presenter32:47

Yeah. We'll send you away with the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and a book of your own to keep you company. What would you like to take?

Melanie C32:53

Yeah.

Melanie C32:54

A few years ago, actually, a good few years ago, I read a Dusty Springfield biography called Dancing with Demons and it just really stayed with me. A lot of her experiences, you know, she had some really difficult times, struggled with mental health issues. So yeah, it's just stuck with me. So I'd like to read that again. So I think I'll take it with her. We can also provide a luxury item for pleasure or sensory stimulation. What would you like? Okay, well, one of my biggest regrets in life, I started guitar lessons when I was a kid.

Melanie C33:25

And I just never kept them up. So I think I'm going to have plenty of time on this island. So I'm going to master my guitar skills. Any particular guitar you want to take with you? Well, I do have a really nice vintage Martin Acoustic.

Presenter33:38

Oh, we can't really top that. I think I'll take that with me. Nice. Lastly, if you had to save just one of your eight tracks, which would it be?

Presenter33:46

Ooh, it's going to have to be Stevie. Without a doubt, I wish. Melanie C., thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. My pleasure, thank you.

Presenter34:07

I hope you enjoyed that interview with Melanie C. Over the years we've cast away many singer-songwriters including Christine McVeigh, Randy Newman, Noel Gallagher, Bruce Springsteen and Annie Lennox. You'll have heard Melanie talking about playing Mary Magdalene alongside Tim Minchin as Judas in the musical Jesus Christ Superstar, while Tim was cast away by Kirstie Young in 2012.

Speaker 434:27

So Tim mention, your breakthrough in this country at least came at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. It was 2005. By that time you'd been working for about a decade on your music and your stand-up, and yet you were named Best Newcomer. Was there something a little bit galling about that? No, not really, because I'd actually only been I mean uh it was my first ever attempt at doing comedy that show. Uh I wasn't new to the stage and I wasn't new to playing music.

Speaker 434:52

But I'd my twenties were spent sometimes composing for theatre, sometimes playing in cover bands, a hell of a lot of cover bands, piano bars, acting when I got acting work, and I'd had a great time. And then early 2005 I straightened my hair and put the eyeliner on and by Melbourne Comedy Festival 2005 I kinda had what you would call a comedy show. And so I was new, you know, I was really new.

Speaker 435:15

To go and do your comedy at the Edinburgh Fringe show, that's quite a brave thing to do. I mean, that's where, you know, a lot of comedians live and die by their Edinburgh reviews. Yeah, well, I didn't really know that. I didn't know anything about the reviewers. I didn't know any of the other comedians. I'd never heard of Bill Bailey. I wasn't a comedy watcher. I'd never seen a stand-up show in my life. You got a very bad review at Edinburgh, which has since become infamous because it was by a man called Phil Doust. I don't know how many people read the review at the time. Probably really not that many. But a lot of people know about it now because you wrote a song in response to his bad review of the songs called Song for Phil Doust. Brave, dramatic, and probably wonderfully petty that you did that.

Speaker 135:45

Yeah.

Speaker 436:00

So petty. Well, I don't know how I feel about the song anymore because I feel bad for Phil that if you type his name in or whatever, his name is associated with my song. Have you spoken to him before? No, I haven't, but a journalist followed him up and said, have you ever heard this song? And he said, I hated his act when I first saw it. Why would I listen to another five minutes? But of course it then goes on the internet and four or five years later it's still there and that's the bit I don't feel great about because I'm beyond that period of my life and I think it's a real pity that both his review of me and my review of him are still out there. But I actually didn't write that song straight off the back of it. It really affected me and that's more because I was not ready for an article in a national English newspaper. That was just so awful. And that's a hard lesson to learn. I think all reviewers should write as if they're watching a friend of their sisters. I shall play the part of reviewer here and say, well, you know, do you know what? To mention you're charging tickets and you need to entertain me. If I'm not entertained, then I have the right to spread the word that you're not an entertaining performer. Yeah, but you're wrong.

Speaker 136:11

No, I haven't, but a journalist.

Speaker 137:06

Yeah.

Speaker 437:08

Because the arts are subjective, and there are great reviewers out there who would make that argument, and I would understand them because they know how to write about something that they don't think is achieving its goals. People are quite contemptuous of artists who are not good at dealing with reviews, but I think it's completely disingenuous because it hurts being told that what you've worked on is useless. And.

Speaker 437:35

I'm I'm probably particularly not good at it.

Speaker 437:39

Which is why I don't read them any more.

Speaker 437:41

Imagine you had to get up you you the listener, dear listener, had to get up every night and do a whole lot of jokes that you already know you don't find funny anymore. Write a whole lot of songs that you don't like the tunes of anymore because you wrote them yourself. Sing with a voice that you loathe because it's your own voice. These are all normal human things, right? To not like your own material. And then someone in a national newspaper, your newspaper, the one you respect and read, makes specific criticisms of specific bits in the show and doesn't say this could do with work, but says this makes this person not deserve to be on stage. How would you feel at the point you get to that point in your show that night?

Speaker 438:17

How do you get up on stage and get to that joke again with that guy's words ringing your head? The answer is toughen the hell up. It's not the worst thing that ever happened. You're not mining coal as a seven-year-old. And that's the answer I took back onstage. It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but it is very, very hard to recover from when you're new to it. You say, you say you don't read reviews. You didn't read the reviews from Matilda then? Oh, I read the reviews for Matilda. Because they're not about me. They're about something I've created with a group of people. The trouble with comedy is it's all you.

Speaker 438:46

Why continue to put yourself out there? Because it would be if if you feel it as as deeply as you've just described it, you know, the science is quite as uncool as all that. But it's interesting that you still seem to need and want to go out there and put yourself out there to be judged.

Speaker 138:52

You know the signs that

Speaker 138:54

But don't be sorry

Speaker 138:57

But

Speaker 439:04

Yeah, because I, while I don't like my voice and doubt my work, there's another part of my brain that knows that I'm good at it.

Speaker 439:13

And I'm probably really good at it, you know. And I love it. I absolutely love it. I mean, I could not design my career to be better than it is. I get to play music, I get taken seriously, I make people cry in my shows, I make them laugh, I play my own material, I play pianos that are better than I deserve, with musicians that are better than I am, in rooms that I wouldn't have dreamt of. And then I get to write musical for as well. It's ridiculous. Why would you stop?

Presenter39:43

Such a great episode that. Tim Minchin talking to Kirsty Young in twenty twelve. All those programmes are available to download via BBC Sounds. Next time, my guest will be Dorothy Byrne, Head of News and Current Affairs at Channel 4. I do hope you'll join us then.

Speaker 440:10

What are you interested in?

Speaker 440:12

And I mean really interested in.

Melanie C40:14

I'm really into boxes.

Speaker 440:15

Yeah.

Speaker 440:15

Certificate pencils.

Melanie C40:17

Crinoline mania

Speaker 440:18

So much so that if you see it, or hold it, or just think about it.

Speaker 440:23

Then everything stops.

Speaker 440:26

And then

Speaker 440:27

One day, it just vanished. Each week in the Boring Talks podcast, join me, James Ward, as I introduce a guest speaker to share their own fascination for a very niche subject.

Speaker 140:39

But what could it possibly be?

Speaker 440:42

From the personal joys of pencils and teletext to the expectant sounds of old computer games loading.

Speaker 440:49

Every talk is a varied and surprising treat.

Speaker 140:52

Hear that? Lovely.

Speaker 440:54

The Boring Talks. Subscribe right now on BPC Sounds.