Stephen Graham

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:44

My castaway this week is Stephen Graham, one of the hardest working British actors in the business. He caught the acting bug early. He was born in Kirby near Liverpool and he cut his teeth at the city's star-making Everyman Theatre. He's worked since his teens and it was his standout performance in Shane Meadows' This Is England in 2006 that first won him wide critical acclaim on both sides of the Atlantic. Since then he's found success on the big screen and the small. Earlier this year, millions of TV viewers were gripped by his portrayal of a brutal undercover cop in the BBC drama Line of Duty. He's known for the powerful humanity and naturalism he brings to his roles, oh, and for being absolutely terrifying. He's taken up cudgels for Martin Scorsese numerous times, first in Gangs of New York, then as a brilliantly unhinged Al Capone in HBO's Boardwalk Empire, and most recently as a mobster Tony Provenzano in The Irishman. He says, hopefully I'm nothing like the characters I play, but with most of them I tried to bring a bit of humanity and a bit of humility to them, to make them interesting, not just to play them as one-dimensional angry people. Stephen Graham, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you, Lauren. That was a really nice little intro. Happy, you're happy. That was lovely. Thank you very much. So you're known to audiences for the emotional breadth of your performances and in the business for your flexibility. You've improvised with director Shane Meadows. You've taken the meticulous approach to something like Line of Duty and everything in between. What's your favourite way of working?

Stephen Graham1:57

Yeah.

Presenter2:15

I really do love to improvise. It's that creativity, do you know what I mean? But then it's also the the technique of taking that improvised kind of concept into scripted dialogue. But I just love that freedom of improvisation because you n you're never quite sure what's gonna happen next.

Stephen Graham2:17

Why?

Presenter2:35

Yeah, talk me through getting into character. I know you're big on the walk. Yeah, I am, yeah. Why is that important? I I j I just like to try and change the physicality straightaway, try and get away from my own body. I'm a big one on shoes and how shoes make you change yourself anyway, do you know what I mean? So it's the shoes of the character and then the walk of the character that I try and find.

Stephen Graham2:51

Okay, go on.

Presenter2:56

Al Capone must have had a pretty great shoes. Al Capone had some belts, yeah, and they were all handmade as well, so they were very nice. But I must drive Anna mad, because in our living room, I go, Love, just wait a minute, love, right, watch. What about this walk? What do you think of this? And she's like, That's a good one. And I go, Yeah, but I think it could be better. Give me a. She'll be doing something. I go, Anne, Anne, Anne. And she'll turn around and she'll go, Watch. And I go, What do you think of this walk, Loh?

Speaker 33:01

Israel Salima.

Presenter3:20

And she watches it and she's like, oh, yeah, that's much better. I'm like, ta, nice one. How was it getting your eight discs together for us today?

Presenter3:28

Practically impossible. Well, let's do our best. This is your first. It's Kasabian and it's fire, and it's just the joy this track in particular has brought me and my family. They're a local band and a Leicester band. Whenever Leicester City football clubs score, it's played at the ground. I live in Leicester and they've adopted me as one of their own. We went to watch the homecoming of Leicester when they came home, and we went to the big park where they came back. And it was when that tune was played, the whole crowd went ballistic. They're the best band I've ever seen live, actually. They just look like they're having a great time.

Presenter4:04

And they are?

Speaker 34:08

Gentlemen, I feel I saw it.

Speaker 34:19

I'm gonna take out so

Presenter4:40

So, Stephen Graham, what's it like being on set with the likes of Martin Scorsese? You've been working with him recently for The Irishman, alongside an incredible cast, Al Pacino, Joe Pesci, Robert De Niro. Did you have to take a deep breath on that first day? Massively. And that phone call came in and it was kind of: look, Stephen, Marty really wants you for this film to play this character, but Robert De Niro is the exec producer, and you're gonna have to go to New York to meet Bob.

Presenter5:11

And I was like

Presenter5:12

Okay.

Presenter5:13

These are the films that I grew up on. Pops went to me when I was 15. He went, Are you serious about this acting? I went, Yeah, dad, I think I really am. This is what I want to do. He was like, Okay, right, let's go to video shop. And we went to Quarry Green Video Shop, and he got The Godfather, Taxi Driver, and The Deer Hunter. And that weekend, we watched them three films. And I think we watched The Godfather twice, actually. Yeah, it was amazing. But that was that kind of moment where he went to me. Well, if you're serious, this is how it's done seriously and brilliantly. That began my love affair with films.

Stephen Graham5:35

Yeah.

Presenter5:46

So, what's it like then, in that case, walking into effectively a job interview with Robert De Niro? I was really nervous.

Presenter5:53

He w he walked in with his hat on, his his shirt and his shorts and a paper under his arm and I was just like, Wow, he's just dead normal

Presenter6:02

We chatted, it was lovely, and then he asked me about how I got into acting. I explained, you know, when I was a kid, I went to Everyman Youth Theatre and I just really loved it. And then Marty went, like, I went, oh, yeah, you know, because you both got something in common. You've both played Al Capone. He turned to me and he went, Yeah, you were great. And I was like, Oh, my God, I can't believe it. And plus, he'd seen This Is England because This Is England was at his festival, Tribeca Film for sure. Let's have some more music. It's time for your second track.

Stephen Graham6:28

Sure.

Presenter6:31

Save the Children by Marvin Gaye. By the Children

Presenter6:35

My mum used to play loads of Motown. Marvin Gaye was one of those beautiful voices that I'd hear Sunday morning when me and my ma would be cleaning up'cause it was just me and me Ma for the first like 10, 11 years of my life. She had me when she was 20 and you know, I'm mixed race and it was kind of frowned upon in them days. She strived and she went to college and she got an education and then she became a nursery nurse and she worked at that and then she became a social worker. This one's for your mum Nancy.

Speaker 27:05

Let's save all the children. Save the babies!

Speaker 27:14

Send the mail this

Speaker 27:18

Cause if you wanna run, you got no safety babies

Stephen Graham7:23

Uh

Stephen Graham7:24

But you have in it. You will save the main.

Stephen Graham7:30

All of the children!

Presenter7:37

Save the Children by Marvin Gaye for your mum, Stephen Graham. I know. I chose that for her. Now, I know you prefer dad to stepdad, or pops, I think you call him as well. So we'll call him that dad or pops. He brought you up along with your mum. You've also got your biological father and his other children. Yeah, whom I love, you know what I mean? But at home for you, so it was you, your mum and dad. And you were their only child until you were like 20, right? Yeah, until I was 20, and then Nathan came along as well. Pops is mixed-race, so that's where I learned all the history of my culture and where I'm from and what I'm about. Was his heritage similar to yours? Yeah, Pops' dad is African. My dad's dad was Jamaican, but Pops' was African. And he taught me about Marcus Garvey and Malcolm X. He taught me the history and the cultural aspect of where I came from, which was beautiful. So it was times there growing up. I was slightly unsure where I fitted in. Sometimes I'd be accepted by my white cousins and stuff like that. And then my black cousins wouldn't really, do you know what I mean? So it was kind of where do I belong? There was a kind of place of that.

Stephen Graham7:44

Duh.

Speaker 37:44

Yeah.

Stephen Graham7:45

So with

Stephen Graham7:52

Yeah.

Stephen Graham7:58

Yeah.

Stephen Graham8:00

Yeah

Stephen Graham8:10

With

Stephen Graham8:12

Yeah.

Stephen Graham8:24

Come on.

Stephen Graham8:38

Good.

Presenter8:40

How did he help you if he was helping you through it? He just helped me see that who I am and what I am is good enough to be who I am and and to find my own way within it. And I got that kind of sense of

Stephen Graham8:49

And I got

Presenter8:51

Self in many respects from my mother as well. Do you know what I mean? It's that kind of finds your own way. Yeah, you've described them both as extraordinarily supportive, and your mum is quite tough. I know you got you came in for a bit of bullying when you were. Yeah, yeah, you know, that N-word popped up when I was younger, um, and my ma clocked it out the window. And then, as soon as I come up, she was like, You okay? And I was like, Yeah, obviously, you you never want to tell these things. She might have just seen what happens, and I was like, Okay.

Stephen Graham8:59

Yeah

Stephen Graham9:02

Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Graham9:10

Yeah.

Presenter9:16

Okay.

Presenter9:17

And she went, Right, let's go And she got her coat on and she and we went to these people's houses because she was known in the area where we lived and she got a lot of friends in that area and she went to the front doors and she knocked on the door and she said, Right, I'm not having this and she kind of dealt with it.

Presenter9:32

And an amazing sense of pride because my ma's two foot two, you know, she's she's pretty stone wet through, bless her. Just the way she marched, and she was like, Come on, let's go. You've also got a tattoo and tribute to your nana. Now, why is it fairy cake? I used to be at my nana's all the time, because my school was around a corner, so I'd stay at my na's, I'd have my tea at my nana's. I mean, I had a van, like a stationary mobile. It was they called a mobile, but it wasn't mobile, it never moved. It was a van and it was at the bottom of the walk, and she sold everything from one pence chewies to tan tights and milk, steady milk, bread, and everything. Do you know what I mean? And she ran the van. She was the nan with the van. She was a great cook, my nana. Fantastic cook. She used to make a boss pan of scouse and

Stephen Graham10:06

She's a non-

Presenter10:12

So in tribute to her cooking then, yeah, and she used to make these little fairy cakes. Were your family your first audience? And you've got that big family, lots of cousins, everybody's making a bid for attention. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I can't do them now, so don't ever ask me. I used to do impersonations.

Stephen Graham10:14

Yeah.

Stephen Graham10:19

Yeah, he's

Stephen Graham10:23

Yeah.

Presenter10:29

of do little skates of like Margaret.

Presenter10:32

And Idiar Meenan used to make my nana laugh so much. It's time for your next piece of music. What's it gonna be? It's Young MC.

Presenter10:42

No how. When I first heard it, I was like, Oh, what's Isaac Hayes Schaft? And then they strum B kicks in. It's like, What is that?

Presenter10:51

How they do not

Presenter10:53

And this is one of the only songs that I know, all the lyrics from start to finish. And I'll tell you a little bit about me w when I was part of a breakdancing crew called The Bronx Breakers. What was your killer move? The Windmill.

Presenter11:07

And the caterpillar. Oh, that's pretty good. That's hard. Can you still? Or?

Stephen Graham11:07

Booha!

Stephen Graham11:09

That's hard.

Presenter11:12

I've been known to pull out my old windmill now and again. No, yes, I have. Yeah, no, yeah, now I end up hitting the knee or something like that. It's bad for the back and the shoulders and the knee. Once the legs get going round. Once you do like three, then it's like it's over. And then you start getting a headache and all. I can't do it. I'm 46 now.

Stephen Graham11:23

What you do

Presenter11:33

Some of the busiest rhymes ever made by man are going into this mic written by this hand. Are coming out of this mouth made by this tongue? I tell you now, my man, my name is Young. But so you think that it's your destiny to get the best of me. But I suggest to be quiet, bro. Don't even try from the east and west of me. Taking it to never breaking it or even shaking it. Grooving it and always moving it, cause I'm not faking it. Pulling out rhymes like books off the shelf. Born in England, Maz and Hollandstalk, I go for myself. This is stone cold rhyming, no fills, no fluffs, and there's no accent. These rhymes sound tough. I'm going off, baby, there's no turning back. I'm on your TV, on your album, cassette. And H. Young MC Know How by Stephen Graham, who I can confirm does know all the words. Thank you very much, sir.

Speaker 312:07

Go ahead.

Stephen Graham12:07

Type

Presenter12:10

So, you were born in Kirby near Liverpool in 1973. The time that you would have been growing up was a hard one for the region, but it did have this fantastic reputation for groundbreaking drama. TV shows like Alan Bleasdale's Boys from the Blackstuff, Brookside, obviously, the Everyman Theatre, which had kick-started the careers of so many actors and writers. How aware were you of that when you were growing up, and how tangible did all that feel for you? How accessible did it feel? Very completely, because the voice that I spoke was on the telly. One man who I really owe a lot to in my heart of hearts and who I'm very, very grateful for.

Stephen Graham12:34

From

Presenter12:46

Is a beautiful man and an amazing actor called Drew Schofield, who lived across the road from me, Nana's to you know. It's Andrew Schofield. Andrew Schofield, yeah. There was a great show on the telly called Scully, and he was the lead in it. And it was about this boy who was, you know, wanted to be a footballer and had trials at Liverpool. And he lived across the road, so it was tangible. It was like, anything's achievable because I'd see Drew.

Stephen Graham12:52

This is Andrew Schulfield.

Presenter13:09

Walk him.

Presenter13:11

To me, Nana's van. Did your parents support you in wanting to get into acting from the beginning? Yeah, straight away from day one. It was Drew actually who said something. You know, we did a play in school. I think I was ten. We did Treasured Island and I played Jim Hawkins and he came to watch it. And he said to my mum and dad after that, I think your lad's got some talent. He's he's really good. Have you ever thought about, you know, maybe going to the Everyman Youth Theatre? And that was it then. We were like, oh, okay. And you couldn't go till you was 14. So my mum and dad used to drive me to the Everyman. And my mum, when I was with the National Youth Music Theatre and every and stuff like that, my mum would get on the train and we'd go to London and she'd bring me to my auditions and she'd take me all over the gaffe really. Edinburgh Festival I played there and my mum and dad came up there to watch that and yeah they were so supportive.

Stephen Graham13:33

Hmm.

Stephen Graham13:52

Yeah.

Presenter13:59

And did they know that you had talent? Was it obvious to them that you had potential? Or were they just supporting you because they loved you? Just support me because they loved me, I think. But I never forget the moment when I was I think I was 18 and I did a play at the Everyman and it was called Easy and a lot of it was talking to the audience. There was one night in particular and I don't mean this to sound pretentious or anything in any way, shape or form, but I think this is where I kind of went, whoa.

Presenter14:23

And I used to have these monologues with the audience, and I came to the front of the stage, and I was talking to the audience, and that, and then.

Presenter14:31

I actually saw myself outside of my own body.

Presenter14:35

It sounds weird. It's happened a couple of times. Out of body experience. Yeah, it really was. I was watching myself stood at the front of the stage talking to the audience, but I was up in the top of the gantry. It was really weird. And my dad, and there were tears in his eyes, and he just went, and he just said to me, I've just watched you grow up on stage there. And I was like, damn. So that was quite profound.

Speaker 314:37

It's an out-of-body experience.

Stephen Graham14:38

Uh

Presenter15:01

Compete money. For me, yeah. It's time for your next track. What have you got for us?

Stephen Graham15:01

For me.

Presenter15:06

Uh my next track is Shine on You Crazy Diamond by Pink Floyd.

Presenter15:12

I think it's a diverse

Speaker 215:20

Uh

Presenter15:20

You were cold.

Speaker 315:22

Until the crossfire, the child would

Speaker 315:26

Throw on the steel, please.

Speaker 315:32

Come on you target, for far away lie turn.

Speaker 315:37

Come on, you stranger, you legend!

Presenter15:41

You mother and shame!

Presenter15:46

Pink Floyd and Shine On You Crazy Diamond. Stephen Graham, an appropriate track to discuss out-of-body experiences, I think. Yeah, on more levels than one. You did leave secondary school and then get a place at drama school. You were there for about a year. Yeah, and that's where I met Hannah. And that whole experience of going to drama school, you know, because.

Stephen Graham15:58

That's right.

Presenter16:06

No, I I didn't go to drama school until Nathan was born. I waited till he was born and then I went a few days after. Okay. So it's kind of straight away.

Stephen Graham16:13

Okay.

Presenter16:16

So it's your little brother? Yeah, my little brother, Hannah. And my mum had had a stillbirth about.

Presenter16:24

I think when I was maybe when I was seventeen seventeen she had a stillbirth of little Karen.

Presenter16:32

And plus, my nana's death as well, you know, my nana passed away when I was 14. I'd been through these few traumatic things and never really grieved, you know what I mean? And then, obviously, this beautiful, joyous occasion of this little boy coming into my life and into my mum pops's life, and then me having to leave was kind of a bit difficult. But when you're 20, you've got the world in front of you, haven't you? So you're trying to focus on all that kind of stuff. And then I moved to a place called Plumstead in South East London. And then I kind of really immersed myself into understanding what acting was. And then, you know, you got into things like Stanislavski and Utah Hagen, who's fantastic. I love her philosophy on acting. And then I'd start putting it into practice. So there were things like emotional memory recall, and it's that kind of believing your world that you're creating almost.

Presenter17:22

I had a breakdown.

Presenter17:23

I j I my I did. I just had I had a breakdown with all of these things that had happened traumatic in my from my late teens I hadn't really dealt with or I hadn't come to terms with. And also suddenly away from your support system, which is so close, your family. Yeah, yeah, away from my mum properly for the first time and pops and all my family, my my aunties and my uncles and my friends and all that, and going to that there big London to do it on your own, what have you, and it was difficult. Um and then I went back home and I I'll never forget that moment where I was in my mum and dad's living room and I

Stephen Graham17:35

Yeah, just so

Speaker 317:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Stephen Graham17:36

Oh, it's your family.

Stephen Graham17:38

Mm-hmm.

Presenter17:57

And they were trying to see what was happening with me and trying to understand it. And I just I couldn't really talk and I'll never forget the, you know, the the tears coming down both the faces and and saying, Well, can we help you some? What do we do? What can we and I'm he's gonna be okay, I'll be okay and then um and then the next day I tried to hang myself um

Stephen Graham18:10

And that

Presenter18:17

I went in, you know, it was very calculated. And I kicked the chair um and and and I and I heard my nana's voice.

Presenter18:25

Now I know this sounds strange and weird or whatever, but it's my truth. I heard Manana's voice and she shouted Stephen, um, and I thought I'd gone, I thought it was you know what I mean,'cause I'd tried to do that. Uh and then I I just come to, opened my eyes and and the rope had snapped.

Presenter18:43

Thankfully, thankfully, the rope had snapped, you know what I mean? Uh and then I like I put a a high neck jumper on one of them zip up jumpers and my mother and dad came back and and then my mum kinda saw it and then she went, What's that? and then she seen it properly and then and then the three of us just really uh I really opened up, then everything just came out and I just said, I don't know how to cope and

Presenter19:05

I'm blessed and my Lee and Jamie at the time were magnificent. Lee and Jamie. Lee and Jamie were my two, yeah, my two best friends. They were really supportive and

Stephen Graham19:08

Lee and Jamie Franklin.

Presenter19:13

And my mum and dad and and slowly built me back, slow slowly come round to the understanding that it was okay. Life was worth living, thankfully. I mean that is such a horrific thing to go through. And especially for when you have obviously been so clear, you know, you'd grown up with a very clear vision of of what life was going to be like for you.

Presenter19:35

You'd sort of got to drama school and felt like you couldn't cope. How long did it take to kind of feel like there was a future for you? This was kind of where Hannah.

Presenter19:49

Where Hannah came into my life, do you know what I mean? Properly, she knew what had happened. She was one of the few people that knew exactly what had happened. And she was always in close contact with my mum when I was at home and asking questions. And we were just really close, do you know what I mean? Really close. But obviously, I didn't quite know what I wanted. I was young. I was in my early 20s. I was, you know, I was experiencing life. And that saying, you don't know what you've got till it's gone is so true for me personally because she went to Spain for a little bit and I couldn't see it or not. And then she was going to move out there properly. And she came back. And we hadn't been on a date in these like five years. Do you know what I mean? Six years. We hadn't even had a date. We'd just been. Talking lots.

Presenter20:31

And then I said, Can I take you on a date? She was like, What? I went, Can I take you on a date? We went to what Saving Private Right and we had a little bite to eat in Greenwich. And then we were at Newcross train station. And I said to her, Please don't go to Spain. She went, Why don't you want me to go to Spain? And I went, I love you. And she went, I've been waiting for five years for you to say that. And I was like, It's true, I do. And then she went, Okay. And then the next day we moved in together. And then, you know, we've been together ever since, thankfully.

Presenter21:03

I think we better play a song for her. Yeah. What are you gonna play? It's called Ain't Nobody by Shaha Khan. So this is your song, right? This is our song, yeah. And no matter wherever we are.

Stephen Graham21:11

Yeah.

Presenter21:15

If we're at a a a family gathering or a Christian or da da da any kind of event, we're like two little meer cats, our heads just pop up and we look for each other and we go running to each other. Or if I'm in the car or if I'm at work and someone plays it, I have to phone her and put the phone near the speaker and she does the same.

Speaker 221:31

Uh

Presenter21:31

Uh

Speaker 221:31

Ha ha ha

Speaker 221:33

Nobody, nobody loves me better, just the better, makes me happy.

Stephen Graham21:57

One night time to bring it to me.

Stephen Graham22:01

They believe I'm the one.

Presenter22:03

Rufus and Chuck Akan ain't nobody. Stephen Graham. So let's pick back up when you got back into acting. Everything had started to kind of come together.

Presenter22:15

But you were looking for work and hustling. I think when you were asked once about any advice you would give your younger self, you said kick down doors. How many were closed and how much kind of hustling for work did you have to do? Well, when I finished drama school, I finished at the end of my first year. It was kind of a mutual agreement. I was with a cooperative in London.

Speaker 322:23

Come on.

Stephen Graham22:23

Uh

Presenter22:35

This is an acting cooperative what like where actors sort of staff a hotline for well they look after the the place itself together, do you know what I mean? Yeah. This one particular afternoon I was in there with this old posh.

Stephen Graham22:38

Yeah.

Stephen Graham22:41

Probably.

Stephen Graham22:42

It's organic. Uh

Speaker 322:42

Yeah.

Stephen Graham22:43

What I mean is

Presenter22:47

kind of love he acted. And I said, Oh, there's this boss parting here this and it was to play a George, it was to play a lad from Newcastle. I went, There's a boss parting here I'd I think I'll be great for this. It was a film and he went, No, no, no, no.

Stephen Graham22:47

Bia.

Presenter22:58

I was like, what's your mate? Look at that character breakdown. That's me all day long. He said, no, no, you're never going to get a film. So I waited for him to get off on his lunch break. And then I phoned. And you're not supposed to phone for yourself because it's bang out of order if you're going there just to look for work for yourself, innit? So I phoned it and I put on this voice and blagged it that I was someone else. And said, We've got this young lad, you know, he's from Liverpool. He's a really good, he's done quite a lot of plays and stuff, and he's done a little bit and bobs. I think he'd be great for this role. And I'm doing all this now, dead quick. While he's out, I've got a CV, I typed a letter dead quick, and then I put a headshot on it and put it right at the bottom of the send-out pile and off it went. About two weeks later, I got a phone call from the people in the cooperative in the office saying, Oh, Stephen, you've got an audition for a film? I was like, Oh, nice one, great. Buzzing. So then I went for the audition and I got the part. Yes. Every month they'd have like a meeting and discuss who's doing what and how it's all going for the day. And that our boy was in the far corner, right? And they've gone, oh, and we've got some great news, some fantastic news. Stephen, and I've only been here about a few months. Stephen, our newest recruit, has just landed a film, everybody. And everyone was like, Hey, and I'm feeling dead embarrassed and all that. And he was looking at me from across the room.

Stephen Graham24:13

Boo.

Presenter24:14

And I was just smiling going, Thank you, thank you. I I didn't last long with the Corp after that, and then and then things just kind of progressed after that.

Stephen Graham24:18

Mm-hmm.

Presenter24:21

So everything grew out of that. It was your performance as the skinhead combo Andrew Gascoigne in This Is England in 2006 that really changed things for you. It won you huge critical praise on both sides of the Atlantic. Now you've revisited that character several times. What's that like for you, having to find the things that you have to portray when you're playing someone like that inside yourself? The most important thing is trust.

Presenter24:49

You have to trust the director implicitly and trust that you know, and you have to have trust with the other actors around you, and they have to trust you. It's that freedom to create and to know that you're coming from a place of truth and honesty for the character. Do you feel vulnerable when you're doing that in those situations? Extremely, yeah. As you're thinking of things, you're like, Oh, that's a bit strong. And it's maybe that's not the right. It's like, no, no, go with it, go with it, go with it, go with it. Without sounding pretentious, you lose yourself, you immerse yourself, and you lose yourself in the character.

Stephen Graham25:07

Yeah.

Presenter25:19

It's time for your next track. It's very apt, I suppose. It's a track by Maverick Sabre, and it's called I Need.

Presenter25:26

Guys

Stephen Graham25:27

There's something good yeah I need

Presenter25:28

Good.

Presenter25:29

Uh On side Nine niggas

Presenter25:32

An angel zah.

Presenter25:36

Guy um think good day and me

Presenter25:40

Loose can find the egg.

Presenter25:42

Oh oh ta ta me a

Presenter25:47

So I'm thankful

Presenter25:50

It's our own denial, it's a home deny.

Presenter25:55

Oh

Presenter25:59

Maverick Saber and I Need.

Presenter26:01

Another hugely popular role for you, you're in line of duty this year playing undercover officer John Corbett. Now, given how much preparation you do when you're creating a character, I wonder what you made of the insight that you would have gained playing someone who does that for real as part of their job, you know, who's living as a kind of undercover persona. I'm very lucky. I've got a friend who, a few actually, who were in the forces. He was undercover for a long time, and I had a really great in-depth conversation with him about how he went about it. And, you know, and I took some great stuff from him to help with creating that character. And basically, you know, it was that you have to believe everything you say, and you also have to make sure that you leave you and your life way out of it.

Stephen Graham26:21

Persona

Presenter26:52

It's acting of the highest order because you've got your life. The situations that he was in, my friend, were extremely serious, and he could have been shot in a heartbeat. So I took a lot from that, tried to put that into the character. And you're basically acting to the best of your ability, but you have to have that backstory locked in and never let a bit out. And what was great about Jed Mercurio's writing, and what was great to be asked to come and be a part of that fantastic show, was we got to see the duality of that character trying to live that persona, but also the effect it has on him with his wife and his family. And when we recorded the phone call conversation that he speaks to his wife.

Presenter27:35

I let a secret out the bag that was hanging on the other end of the phone.

Presenter27:40

Yeah, and she had Alfie with her as well.

Speaker 327:41

Oh wow.

Presenter27:42

And he dropped a little mishy dad and I wasn't expecting that. So that was kinda special as well, do you know what I mean?

Presenter27:48

It's time for your next disc. What are we gonna hear? A talk tonight. This is my favorite Oasis song.

Presenter27:54

I just love the sentiment, I love the words, I love what it's about and it reminds me of this is another song to Hannah I suppose. The words in this are beautiful and and this this track in particular is one of my favourites. It's my favourite Oasis song and it's my favourite Null song as well.

Presenter28:12

She went on born a thousand million miles from home in something.

Presenter28:23

Have me somewhere out between the eyes.

Presenter28:31

See you

Speaker 228:33

Flame, no, you can't complain. You took your last step one, two,

Presenter28:40

Talk tonight. Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds. So Stephen Graham, you described your career in vocational terms earlier. It's a calling for you. Is it a career that you would recommend to other people? And if they feel that call, what would you say to them?

Stephen Graham28:48

Mm-hmm.

Presenter28:54

Follow it, go for it. You need skin like a rhino, you need to be able to not take things too personally and just always, you know, believe in your ability. And if it's calling you, do it. No, if we were painters and decorators, you wouldn't be fussy about the house you painted, would you? So, to get experience and get stuff under your belt, do it, just do the job because there's no better learning than on-the-job experience, like an apprenticeship. That's really good advice. What about life on the island? Family obviously is everything to you. That's where you can tell. How are you going to be with solitude? Well, you never said how long I have to be there. I mean, it's just a way, it's indefinite. Yeah, but I'm coming back now.

Stephen Graham29:26

I mean it's

Presenter29:29

I could try some transcendental meditation or something like that. So you'd either try and escape mentally or would you try and escape physically?

Stephen Graham29:33

So you die the trap

Presenter29:37

Uh yeah, defo. You didn't say I can't knock like knock trees down and all that can build a raft and everything, can you? If you've got those practical skills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't really, but I'd find them.

Stephen Graham29:42

Yeah.

Stephen Graham29:45

How about

Presenter29:47

Yeah, I'm sure I'm terrible at DIY. It's time for your final disc, Stephen Groom. I have gone for DJ Fresh and High Contrast featuring Dizzy Rascal. How love begins. Why have you chosen this one? It's our cartoon, and now we all just love it. When we're on a long car journey, or at some point, you know, especially if the sun's cracking the flags, the windows go down and that tune gets blasted and we all just go ballistic. This is going to test a few sound systems, isn't it? Yeah, it will, yeah. And I recommend all you listeners at home, please turn up the volume to maximum.

Speaker 330:18

Uh

Presenter30:31

Let's go! What you need from me is what I need from you. We gotta share the law, that's what we need for true, that's what we've gotta pursue. And if we split the love between the two, imagine everything that we could do, not for the love of money. And would you love me even if I was running off of the bombs of the fars and the yards and the bars? I ain't tryna be funny. Worth of the feeling that you get in your pummy, you're not beating the honey. From your friends saying that I'm troubled, I can't lie, I was raised in a struggle. And when it all goes off, I'll be glaring the double right now. All I wanna do is bubble.

Presenter30:56

DJ Fresh and High Contrast featuring Disney Rascal: How Love Begins: The Hardcore Will Never Die Edit. Stephen Graham, I'm about to cast you away to your desert island. I give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare to take with you. Nice one. You can take another book of your own choosing. What will that be?

Speaker 331:09

Nice one.

Presenter31:12

I'm gonna go for Jonathan Livingston Siegel. Okay. Because it's a beautiful book. I think I read it when I was about 21. I mean, it's just that, you know, not being part of the fold and also in pursuit for some kind of higher spiritual meaning and the indoctrination that we've had from all different religions. It's follow your own religion, follow your own purpose, follow your own calling, which is something that you said earlier on, which is very apt, you know what I mean? Follow your own way and never, never lose faith in the possibilities of the beauty of what life can offer.

Stephen Graham31:16

Uh

Speaker 331:16

Okay.

Presenter31:47

Where did that come from? On a more frivolous note, you could also have a luxury item. What would you like?

Presenter31:52

Uh pillow.

Presenter31:54

A specific pillow? Yes. The one that I've left in my Winnie Bago at work that I'm gonna have to get back. That comes with me everywhere. It's like flat. There's nothing to it now. And I obviously annoy them all, but I have to take it everywhere with me.

Stephen Graham31:56

Yeah.

Presenter32:07

And finally, if you could save only one disc from the tropical waves and keep it, which would it be?

Presenter32:16

I think you've and I both know that there's no choice, is there? And it has to be.

Presenter32:22

Ain't nobody.

Presenter32:24

Rufus and Chaka is yours. Stephen Graham, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you very much for having me long.

Presenter32:44

Hello, I really hope you enjoyed that interview with Stephen Graham. There are more than 2,000 programmes available to listen to in our archive, including one of Stephen's chosen musicians, Noel Gallagher, and the writer Jed Mercurio, who created Line of Duty, which Stephen starred in earlier this year. Kirsty Young cast Noel Gallagher away in 2015.

Speaker 333:05

It's a very difficult thing to explain the creative process, but as you go through that process of writing a song.

Speaker 333:11

Do you know it's a biggie? Do you get that feeling?

Speaker 233:14

Yeah.

Speaker 233:14

There is no golden rule, but there are kind of little signposts that you recognise. If a song comes quickly, it usually means it's good because it's just falling out of the sky.

Speaker 233:25

Don't Look Back in Anger took, you know, 15 minutes. If I'd have known that night that that song would live for so long and become such a thing, I would never have finished it because it would never have been perfect enough to think, oh, in 25 years people are going to be playing this at their weddings. And you know what I mean? It was just another song. And then sometimes a song will require a lot of thought and purity of emotion, you know. And then some songs are just nonsense, that are just throwaway, but they're a great tune. And I think if I spend too much time thinking about it, I'll take away all the magic. You know, I still believe there's just somebody up there and they're just dropping songs all over the place. And if I'm not ready to catch them, Chris Martin's getting them and Bonno's getting them and they've had enough, you know. There's no way they're getting them. So I do it every day, you know what I mean?

Stephen Graham33:40

Yeah.

Speaker 333:40

Uh

Speaker 234:15

I'm there every day fishing in the river for the songs, you know.

Presenter34:19

Noel Gallagher talking to Kirsty Young. And the programme is available to download via our Desert Island Discs website and BBC Sounds. Next time, my guest will be the conservationist Isabella Tree. I do hope you'll join us.

Stephen Graham34:43

Hi everybody, I'm Caitlin Jenner and I am a guest on Simon Monday's Don't Tell Me the Score podcast. We talked about everything, the Olympics, trans issues, and all the lessons that I have learned along the way. I really enjoyed recording the podcast and I hope you enjoy listening to it. You can hear it on BBC Sounds. Just search for Don't Tell Me the Score.