Wendell Pierce

Speaker 10:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Presenter0:04

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. This is an extended version of the original Radio 4 broadcast and, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:46

My castaway this week is the actor Wendell Pierce. His credits include roles in more than 30 films and 50 T V shows. He starred as Megan Markle's father in the legal drama Suits, but it was as Detective Bunk Moreland in The Wire that he helped redefine the boundaries of what television could be. If The Wire was novelistic, then the follow-up to Remay, written with him in mind, was poetic, a polyphonic tribute to the resilience and cultural riches of Pierce's home city of New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. Born in 1963, Wendell and his family lived in Ponchotrain Park, the first middle-class African-American suburban-style development in the city. At the time, schools were still segregated, and his parents' stories of the Free Southern Theatre, a civil rights theatre group, left him with a sense that even in extreme circumstances, art matters. It was a lesson that would play out in his own life when Katrina destroyed his neighborhood, and he was inspired to act in more than one sense of the word. He says, In American culture, we have turned away from an awareness of the prophetic power of art, of its role as a means of revealing the hidden order beneath everydayness, and its power to transform us and the world. Art doesn't give us life's answers as much as the power to live life's questions. Wendell Pierce, welcome to Desert Island Disc.

Wendell Pierce2:03

Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Presenter2:05

So, you're accomplished in film, TV, and on stage. Tell me a little bit about that working trifecta. How'd you keep it in balance?

Wendell Pierce2:11

I I shoot for that trifecta. I want to do a play and do some uh television and uh film every year. I think uh diversity has been the key to me having uh longevity in my career. You don't want to be the theater snob that I was when I was coming out of Juilliard. Oh, I only want to do theater. Young actors always make that mistake. It's really about good material and good writing.

Speaker 12:28

Yeah.

Presenter2:28

Come on.

Presenter2:34

Was Theatre your first love?

Wendell Pierce2:35

Yes, it was. I came home one summer between fifth and sixth grade. I guess I would have been around 11 years old. And I told my mother I didn't want to go to a summer day camp, which you would go to in New Orleans. And she said, well, you know, the rule in this house is you got to get out and get a job. And you're too young to get a job. So I went to the University of New Orleans, and there was a theater camp, and I had a great time. And then the woman called me back to begin her thesis play, Midsummer Night's Magic. She stole a good time. And a little boy lost in the woods who then encounters all of these different animals. And it was absolutely fantastic. I got the bug.

Speaker 33:03

Still a good time.

Presenter3:15

You've starred in some hugely popular to critically acclaimed shows. How do you know, do you know, when something's going to be a hit?

Wendell Pierce3:22

I

Wendell Pierce3:24

I don't.

Wendell Pierce3:25

I don't. I remember when I first saw the wire.

Wendell Pierce3:28

We saw the first two episodes, and I was sitting there with two other cast members.

Wendell Pierce3:33

And I said, Oh, my goodness

Wendell Pierce3:34

I hope you guys save your money because we're going to be canceled immediately. This is.

Speaker 33:38

Do you

Wendell Pierce3:39

Not very good. You know, it's too slow.

Wendell Pierce3:42

And it wasn't until after the first year, in the midway in the second year, that we started to realize that people were responding to it. But even throughout all five seasons, David had to pitch it to HBO to produce us again. And now, here it is decades later, where people are still appreciating it, and it has reached the acclaim that it has.

Presenter4:01

And what about radio? That's another string to your bow, isn't it?

Wendell Pierce4:05

Yes, that was my summer job in college. When I went to New York, I went to Juilliard.

Wendell Pierce4:10

And I um I used to come home in the summers and work at WYLD, FM ninety eight, music FM. It's twenty minutes after the hour. I'm Wendell Pierce. And it started because I went to the program director. I had an idea for a show. I was sixteen. And he said, Well, let me teach you radio.

Wendell Pierce4:28

You know, and so I would go in on Saturdays and do production stuff and then one day he said, Hey, guy's gonna be out tonight. Do you want to go on the air? And I said, Absolutely He said, I was so young He said, Call your mother and let me get the approval and I went on like at midnight.

Speaker 14:28

No one

Presenter4:43

We get

Presenter4:46

Music is another passion of yours. How has it been putting this list together of tracks to share?

Wendell Pierce4:50

Tranks to share. This has putting this list together. There's so much music I had to cut out. I thought it was torturous, you know? And.

Wendell Pierce4:59

At the same time, the the songs that I selected I realized

Wendell Pierce5:03

I'm very melancholy. I think I'm depressed.

Wendell Pierce5:09

Um maybe it's because I'm working on Willie Lohman.

Presenter5:13

I think death of a salesman would invite a certain amount of introspection.

Wendell Pierce5:15

Yes, you know, a little too much at times.

Presenter5:20

Well, with that in mind, let's hear your first choice. What have you gone for for your first disc?

Wendell Pierce5:25

When I think of this track, I think of my childhood. I think of all the things that were great about it. Growing up in New Orleans, a very musical city. But being in a deep south, a little black boy growing up is told, if not directly, but indirectly, that they are sub-par, that they are not enough, that they are.

Wendell Pierce5:50

less than that you aren't valued.

Wendell Pierce5:53

My parents did a great job to make sure that I knew I was valued, that I knew that I had purpose, and that I.

Wendell Pierce6:00

Life was going to be special for me.

Wendell Pierce6:03

But this song kind of captured it. You know, I felt uh I felt alone at times, as though I was less than and then with the reinforcement and love of my parents and friends and who I knew and my teachers, I realized that I was someone of purpose and promise and importance.

Wendell Pierce6:27

And that was captured in It's Not Easy, Being Green.

Speaker 36:31

When green is all there is to be

Speaker 36:37

It could make you wonder why.

Speaker 36:42

But why wonder?

Speaker 36:45

Why you wonder?

Speaker 36:48

I'm green and it'll do fine. It's beautiful.

Speaker 36:55

And I think it's what I wanna be.

Presenter7:01

Jim Henson as Kermit the Frog singing Bean Green. Oh, Wendell Pierce.

Wendell Pierce7:05

That really was just like my shield. That was my armor.

Wendell Pierce7:11

I'm okay being green. I mean, it's a little on the nose when it comes to being in the midst of racial conflict and uh prejudice. You know, I I think of the they had this awful thing in the South of rubber little

Wendell Pierce7:26

Head for luck. So I was always suspicious of men coming up and who.

Presenter7:29

Mm.

Wendell Pierce7:33

Hey, buddy, how you doing?

Presenter7:35

No, roughly because

Wendell Pierce7:36

Because it literally was

Wendell Pierce7:39

And I'm going to say it'cause it should be said.

Wendell Pierce7:41

Rub a little nigger's head for luck

Wendell Pierce7:44

And so as a child, being suspicious of the intent of men around me,

Wendell Pierce7:51

knowing that if I reacted in a violent way or

Wendell Pierce7:54

you know, in an angry way, they would be like, what's the matter?

Wendell Pierce7:58

I do that with my son, you know. They would feign some sort of ignorance of the put down that they're doing of you.

Wendell Pierce8:06

And to know that something, a song as simple as that from Sesame Street.

Wendell Pierce8:11

can embolden a child and protect a child.

Wendell Pierce8:15

from the ugliness of racism and

Wendell Pierce8:18

and and and prejudice and discrimination.

Wendell Pierce8:20

It shows you the power of art.

Presenter8:23

I want to ask you about some of the roles that brought you into so many of our living rooms. Starting with The Wire, between two thousand two and two thousand eight, you played Detective Bunk Moreland alongside Dominic West as your on screen partner, Jimmy Mc Notty. I feel like I'd have to sit in Bunk's voice.

Speaker 38:34

She

Speaker 38:35

Yeah, I feel like I have to say

Speaker 38:38

Right.

Presenter8:38

David Simon was not so much writing a T V drama as a systemic examination of an entire city, in this case Baltimore, one of the most critically acclaimed T V dramas ever. What do you remember about reading the script for the first time, meeting Bunk for the first time?

Wendell Pierce8:52

I thought the script was amazing. I thought it was a real examination of the dysfunction in the corporate world, in the political world, in the criminal justice world, and a real criticism of the decline of the American empire, really. There's so much in the political, economic, and criminal justice systems that are eating away at the very best of America and its people. He captured all of that in just the simplest scenes of some kids who are explaining what chess is and how we're the pawns. That's the king and queen there. You'll never pass some kid on the corner.

Speaker 19:28

Hmm.

Wendell Pierce9:31

Who was being a part of some underground drug deal and not see his full humanity?

Wendell Pierce9:39

That's the writing that was there. And when I saw that, I realized I wanted to be a part of it. And it changed my life.

Presenter9:46

Didn't you say I was born to play a bunk?

Wendell Pierce9:49

Yes, I did. I said that out of uh necessity to move everyone else out of the way.

Presenter9:53

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce9:54

But what happened was I I knew so many men like Bunk, and then I got to meet so many men like Bunk, and I got to meet the real Bunk.

Presenter10:02

So who is the real bunk?

Wendell Pierce10:03

Rick Requier, he was fantastic. He took me around. I did drive-bys with him. He was about to retire when we started the show. And he took me to the different police stations and we talked about why he became an officer. And I did all that research. Cut to our last year shooting. I went to his retirement party and he said, come here, boy. And I came over ready to be chastised. He said, you made me a star. And I was like the prodigal son coming home. And he hugged me. And, you know, he reminded me, and there's so many men like, especially for African-American officers, that they became police officers because the criminality that was happening in their neighborhoods did not reflect the community that they knew.

Speaker 110:29

He said, You made me a st

Wendell Pierce10:47

people that got up every morning trying to make a living and raise families and just make the best of it. And he said, that's why I became a police officer. So I wanted to be those men and I felt as though I knew those men.

Speaker 310:52

Mm-hmm.

Wendell Pierce11:00

And that's why I said I was born to play punk.

Presenter11:03

Many listeners will also be familiar with your role as Robert Zane in Suits Meghan Markle's Dad in the US legal drama. Not many people have walked a future royal up the aisle as you did in that show. I know. Sorry for the spoiler. What was it like working together?

Wendell Pierce11:06

Mm-hmm.

Wendell Pierce11:13

That's uh sorry for the spoiler.

Wendell Pierce11:17

Oh, it was great. Working with Megan was wonderful. She's a really good actress and was always sweet, always kind. I didn't believe she was dating the prince when it first started. And everyone said, Yeah, she's dating. I'm like, Yeah, right. Couldn't believe it. And then one day I looked up, and there was this real MI5 sort of security guard with us from London with this British accent. And I said, Oh, it must be true. And then I knew it was. And we were shooting one day before the engagement in the show she was engaged, and she had a ring on. And we were about to get out the car, and I said, Don't get out.

Wendell Pierce11:52

Give us the ring. There's a paparazzi down the street. If a photograph got out with you with a ring on it, it would explode all over the world. And then when we had the final scenes, I said, Listen, your world is going to be forever changed. And no matter where you are, you can always know you have a friend in me. That was the last time I got to speak with her. So it was great.

Presenter12:17

It's time for your next piece of music. This is your second disc. Tell us about this one.

Wendell Pierce12:20

This is a song that reminds me of New Orleans. It starts off with that big four beat that is so classic in New Orleans music.

Wendell Pierce12:33

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce12:34

I can take you to where jazz was born, literally on Rampart Street outside of the French Quarter, where captured Africans found their creative freedom before their actual freedom, because on Sundays they would play that African six gunk gunk gun gun gunk gunk, and then you would hear the um pah pas of the European brass, and they put that together and made jazz. And so I wanted to make sure that I have some connection to home when I was on the island. And this particular song has that big four beat at the beginning, and it is a Thelonious Monk tune from the Bebop era in the 40s, but it's played by

Wendell Pierce13:13

A friend of mine from childhood.

Wendell Pierce13:15

And that's Winter Marcellus.

Wendell Pierce13:17

The great jazz trumpeter.

Wendell Pierce13:19

And I've watched him these forty years

Wendell Pierce13:23

And to see the embodiment and genius in someone. It's a epiphany about what is possible in humanity, and I would like to hold on to that if I was alone on this island. This song is also very hopeful. It's swinging. This is Green Chimneys.

Speaker 314:06

Yeah.

Speaker 314:17

Uh

Speaker 314:53

Yeah.

Presenter15:19

Uh

Presenter15:23

Wynton Marsalis playing Thelonious Monk's Green Chimneys. Wendell Pearce, I notice you conducting to the music today. You've got some skills there.

Wendell Pierce15:29

The music today and

Wendell Pierce15:30

I was an usher at the Juilliard Theatre, so I saw all the great conductors when they came through.

Presenter15:37

Well, let's go back to New Orleans then. You were born there in nineteen sixty three, the youngest of three sons. Your father Amos had been a private in the US Army fighting in the Second World War, and he won a few medals that he didn't collect for many years. Did he raise you and your brothers to be patriotic?

Wendell Pierce15:40

The young

Wendell Pierce15:53

Yes. My father used to have a saying, You can't get lost in America.

Wendell Pierce15:58

They used to say it on our summer trips in the car.

Wendell Pierce16:02

But really it was emblematic of what he thought about the country like you can find your way in America in spite of everything. America has a great debt to African Americans.

Wendell Pierce16:14

In spite of everything the country has done to us, we still have been devoted to the country, generation after generation after generation. Somewhere in the middle of the eighteen fifties, my great grandfather was sold as a baby with his mother, and his first memories are seeing his brothers and sisters on the banks of the river in tears as he was sold from one white man to another white man and ended up on

Speaker 116:36

On the

Wendell Pierce16:45

Bayou Lafouche in Assumption Parish, Louisiana, where our homestead is. And at night, his mother would say prayers and say, You have brothers and sisters and a father in Kentucky. If you ever get free one day, go back and find them. He never did. And in spite of all of that, my father willingly went to fight for a country that on paper says life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and every man is equal. That is

Speaker 116:48

We're out

Wendell Pierce17:16

how my father taught me about America. He said, it's a great country because of what we do with it. But the values that we believe in, this is what we believe in, that equality,

Wendell Pierce17:29

That's what we fight for, our families trying to stay together over the course of all of these years of violence and antagonism. That's America to me.

Wendell Pierce17:41

And

Wendell Pierce17:42

That's the sort of patriotism he gave to me.

Wendell Pierce17:46

I remember one night we were at a fight, uh a boxing match, and it was around the time of Black Power Movement.

Wendell Pierce17:53

And these brothers sitting in front of us pulled on my dad's pants during the national anthem. He said, Sit down, man, what are you doing standing for the national anthem? He said, Listen, I fought for that flag.

Wendell Pierce18:02

So you could sit down and not stand up.

Wendell Pierce18:05

He said, But you pull my pants again, I'm going to kick you in the teeth.

Wendell Pierce18:08

Right, so it was that sort of thing.

Wendell Pierce18:11

He didn't get his medals. He fought in Saipan and came back. My mother came to me just a couple of years ago.

Wendell Pierce18:17

before she passed, and she came to me and she said,

Wendell Pierce18:20

Wendell, your father got medals in Saipan.

Presenter18:23

He thought he got like two, right?

Wendell Pierce18:24

He thought he got like two, it ended up being like seven.

Presenter18:25

But yeah

Wendell Pierce18:27

And he said when he was being discharged, as they were processing him, he said, I think my unit won medals. And a white female officer told him, Yeah, right, you won medals.

Wendell Pierce18:41

Impossible.

Wendell Pierce18:43

And he was angry.

Wendell Pierce18:45

And said, Well, I don't want them. I don't need your medals. My mother said, We got a letter from the Army saying that he has these medals and they want to get it to him. Would you look into it? And I thought my mother would bring me something she had just received, and she brought this yellowed piece of paper from January 1945.

Wendell Pierce19:06

saying that he had the medals and I was like, oh my goodness, this is 2010.

Speaker 119:09

Hmm.

Wendell Pierce19:09

So with the help of the World War two Museum in New Orleans, we talked to the Department of Defense and got his medals, and they awarded him his medals on Veterans Day in twenty ten. At the gala, he said he wanted to speak. He said, I always wanted to speak. I said, All right, we'll speak.

Wendell Pierce19:27

And he hobbled to the microphone. He says, you know, when I went off to war, I thought I'd never see the country again.

Wendell Pierce19:33

And we've come a long way.

Wendell Pierce19:35

We have a black president now.

Wendell Pierce19:37

I never thought I'd see that ever.

Wendell Pierce19:40

And he said, As much as this country has done to me, and how I was denied these medals at first, I can now say and he stepped back, saluted, said, God bless America.

Wendell Pierce19:51

That's what he taught us, love the country and challenge it at the same time.

Presenter19:56

The neighbourhood where you grew up is so essential to your story. You've said that Poncha Train Park's ordinariness made it extraordinary.

Wendell Pierce20:04

Why? Because during the height of segregation, Punch Chain Park was created in nineteen fifty five. A black person couldn't even go into a green space, a park, except one day a week, Negro Day.

Wendell Pierce20:17

Because of the civil rights advocacy, we fought and Puncher Train Park was created to appease the movement. It was separate but equal. It was still an ugly thing. They had a dividing line, a ditch actually, that still exists today between the white neighborhood and the black neighborhood, segregated. So we took something ugly and made it beautiful. And it became an incubator of talent, of teachers, of doctors, of lawyers. And in the midst of this ugliness, this Moses generation gave us, this Joshua generation, an upbringing that felt like Americana, a small town.

Presenter20:53

Let's hear some more music. Tell us about this next one.

Wendell Pierce20:56

Okay, this next song was me at my youthful best, at my cockiness. I could not be told anything. It was my coming of age. I can remember it is perpetual spring and summer when I hear this song. It is the groove of who I am. I am strong. I'm beautiful. My best days were ahead of me, and I knew it. All my boys became men when we heard this song, and we were unified in the funk. And this is One Nation Under the Groove by the Funkadelics.

Speaker 321:35

So wide you can't get around it So low you can't get under it

Speaker 321:42

So high, you can't get over yet.

Speaker 321:51

This is a chance, this is a chance.

Speaker 321:55

Dance away.

Speaker 321:59

Alville Parkinson's sons

Speaker 322:03

Don't shook up.

Speaker 322:06

Here's a chance to chance our way.

Presenter22:10

Punkadelic and One Nation Under a Groove. So, Wendell Pierce, we talked about your dad. Tell me a little bit about your mum, Althea. She's a school teacher, right?

Wendell Pierce22:16

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce22:18

Yes, she was a school teacher, Althea Pierce. I called her T.

Wendell Pierce22:24

My mother

Wendell Pierce22:26

Like all mothers are just angels. Education was the most important thing. When she was sent off to school, everyone made fun of her father, my grandfather, saying, What are you sending those girls to s to school for?

Wendell Pierce22:39

And he said, No, that's the most important thing. She came to New Orleans from Assumption Parish because it was the only black high school that was available to her at the time. They didn't have one out there. They met my father at Southern University, a historic black college in

Wendell Pierce22:52

Baton Rouge

Wendell Pierce22:54

And then uh she started her teaching career. She taught at

Wendell Pierce22:57

Cog Hill Elementary School was right in my neighborhood.

Presenter23:00

So did she teach you did she teach at your school?

Wendell Pierce23:02

It wasn't allowed, just in case there was an epitism or something. I was at school with her, so all of my teachers were her friends. So all of my teachers then were at my mother's living room, you know. And so I would come home, and in the living room, you know, my third-grade teacher, Miss Butler, say, Piers, he has homework. Don't let him tell you he doesn't have homework. She taught just two blocks from my home and my elementary school. And education was of so much importance because she realized that that was the real armor to face the world.

Speaker 123:29

Hmm.

Presenter23:38

You went to a predominantly white school when you were a little bit older.

Wendell Pierce23:41

Yeah.

Presenter23:42

How did that come about?

Wendell Pierce23:43

So it came about when it was the the gifted and talented programme. So they had just started that with me, and I was bussed to a predominantly white school where the program was starting, and my father had the talk with me.

Presenter23:56

So the talk, for listeners who don't know what the talk is, can you explain?

Wendell Pierce23:59

The talk the talk to me was not about sex. It was about the first time you were going to encounter, probably, racism. At the time I saw busing happening in Boston and the buses being attacked,

Presenter24:12

Yes, because schools were just being desegregated.

Wendell Pierce24:13

schools being desegregated. And so black kids being bussed into other schools, I was seeing them being attacked on television news. And so my father said, listen, I want to talk to you. Now you're going to school out there and

Wendell Pierce24:26

You're gonna get your ass kicked. I said, What? She said, Oh, yeah.

Wendell Pierce24:30

He said these white boys are going to come at you in a group. They always do. It's always going to be in a group.

Wendell Pierce24:35

He said now, you're gonna get your ass kicked, Wendell. But in the middle of that, you grab the biggest one of the leader.

Wendell Pierce24:43

And while you're getting your ass kicked,

Wendell Pierce24:45

You kick his ass.

Wendell Pierce24:49

And then he'll say, All right, we got Wendell, leave him alone, and they'll never fool with you again.

Presenter24:56

You must have been terrified.

Wendell Pierce24:56

Like

Wendell Pierce24:57

I was absolutely terrified. I was like, what? What are you sending me into? A war zone? I couldn't believe it. So I got off the bus the first day, and the kids were like, Hey, Wendell, how are you doing? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of a sudden, I'm beating the kid up. And I had to fight every day for the first week. And I was like, you know, the principal was, Ms. Garcia was like, oh, Wendell was such a good student. And the kid, I'm sitting next to me in the principal's office. What are you talking about? He's been fighting every day since he came here and got off that bus. You were like a coiled spring. I was a coiled spring ready to pounce. A couple of months later, we were playing Kill the Man with the Ball, our version of rugby, right? And a kid, Chet, never forget, yelled out.

Wendell Pierce25:38

Niggas against the whites.

Wendell Pierce25:42

And there was this silence.

Wendell Pierce25:45

And I said, this is it?

Wendell Pierce25:47

This is it. Just three of us were back to back. They encircled us and I focused on Chet.

Wendell Pierce25:55

I could hear my father now. The biggest one or the leader. They're probably the same one. I'm like, come on, Chet. Oh, I'm gonna get you. And I turned into this devil. This is the moment I've been waiting for. This is the epiphany. Yes, come

Wendell Pierce26:08

And three ran in. All the other kids, maybe one or two, ran towards us. They said, This kid is crazy. I grabbed Chet and I wailed on him. And Chet got up and said, All right, that's enough.

Wendell Pierce26:20

And for the next two years, we all played, we were friends. And I think about it years after, and I said, my father's attempt to.

Speaker 126:26

The microphone.

Wendell Pierce26:28

Shield me, embolden me, empower me, it was weird and wrong.

Wendell Pierce26:34

And I know Chet's parents had told him a certain thing.

Wendell Pierce26:38

But we became friends and we played for years after that.

Wendell Pierce26:42

But it just shows you the ugly, insidious nature of racism and white supremacy.

Presenter26:47

I mean, for all of the the prejudice that was still existed, your generation was also among the first to experience new freedoms that people have been fighting for for a long time, including your parents.

Wendell Pierce26:55

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce26:57

And it gives you a a great responsibility that this Moses generation had given this Joshua generation uh so many gifts to go ahead with

Presenter27:06

Was that a lot of pressure? Did you how aware were you of that? Of that fact that you were you were special? This was you were experiencing these new things and afforded possibilities and aspirations that had been denied to people for a really long time?

Wendell Pierce27:19

I think my mother

Wendell Pierce27:22

focus on education was so important. She that was the pressure more than anything. She said, You will absolutely

Wendell Pierce27:32

um dishonor

Wendell Pierce27:34

All those who came before you.

Wendell Pierce27:36

If you did not get your education.

Wendell Pierce27:38

You know, it was against the law to learn how to read and write. My grandmother got her high school education at the age of sixty nine because in Louisiana she couldn't go past the sixth grade, you know. And my mother was right. She was a blessed woman.

Presenter27:56

It's time to go with the music. What's next?

Wendell Pierce27:58

This song

Wendell Pierce28:00

is that hope and optimism that my mother

Wendell Pierce28:04

Gave me

Wendell Pierce28:05

Ah, it reminds me of my mother.

Wendell Pierce28:08

I would want to have that loving memory on this island.

Wendell Pierce28:12

And it is connection to family because from generation to generation this song is played as one passes on in our family. And this woman was from New Orleans. And this is Take My Hand, Precious Lord, by Mahalia Jackson.

Speaker 328:31

Blue the storm

Speaker 328:42

Bye.

Speaker 328:48

The light

Speaker 328:54

Yeah.

Speaker 328:57

Yeah.

Speaker 329:06

Good night

Speaker 329:11

Take my hand.

Speaker 329:16

Professions know

Speaker 329:23

And he

Speaker 329:31

You home

Speaker 329:36

Uh

Presenter29:37

My Halia Jackson and take my hand, precious lord. Wendell Pearce, by the time you discovered your love of acting, you began to split your school days. So you'd go to high school part of the time and then the New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts the rest of the time.

Wendell Pierce29:52

Right.

Presenter29:52

How did that work and how was that for you?

Wendell Pierce29:54

Oh, it w it was brilliant because um Benjamin Franklin High School was a college prep, you know, it was really, really tough preparing you for college. I went to NOCA and I remember the first thing they said there is, If you're gonna be a professional artist, you're probably gonna have to leave Louisiana.

Wendell Pierce30:12

You know, and that's tough for a lot of people, kids, to think about.

Presenter30:14

Yeah.

Speaker 130:14

Thank you.

Wendell Pierce30:16

most of you will not graduate from here because we're going to treat you like professional waters and have great expectations. So two institutions that were very, very intense and serious.

Presenter30:29

And how did you feel about that? I mean, hearing that, what was that like for you? Oh, I loved it.

Wendell Pierce30:29

And how did you feel?

Wendell Pierce30:32

Oh, I loved it. That was exactly the ethos that my mother was espousing. And so I graduated from both and I was accepted into Juilliard.

Presenter30:41

It was incredibly difficult to get into Juilliard. I mean, before we talk about that, I just want to ask you about a trip to England that you took when you were a teenager that was quite important for you. It was a bit of a turning point.

Wendell Pierce30:49

Yeah

Wendell Pierce30:53

So while I was training at NOCA I came here to London when I was sixteen years old.

Wendell Pierce31:00

I saw As You Like It at the Royal Shakespeare Company, I saw Evita on the West End I saw you, Brenner, in the King and I on the West End.

Wendell Pierce31:09

And um I saw the mousetrap even.

Wendell Pierce31:12

And I realized, man, people here in London and in England go to the theater the way we look at television.

Wendell Pierce31:19

And I just in that moment knew I could be an actor.

Presenter31:23

What about that experience made you think I could do that? Because I don't think everyone else would necessarily have that response.

Wendell Pierce31:30

Because I understood what the classes we were being trained in.

Wendell Pierce31:35

I saw it actualized on the stage here. There wasn't that much theater and that level of professional theater in New Orleans. There was community theater, but to see it on that level, on the commercial level, to see it in the repertory companies, and I realized, okay, there is a professional theater world that I can aspire to. And that was great. I was motivated in New Orleans by the Free Southern Theater, which was a company that had gone around the country during the Civil Rights Movement.

Wendell Pierce32:05

and they would do plays, you know, uh during the marches. And so I knew that that existed. You can't make your living on that. And then when I saw the commercial theater here, I realized, oh, wow

Wendell Pierce32:18

That is something that is a possibility. You know, I would take my chances on whether or not I was good enough, but I knew now I had a focus and a goal to my training.

Presenter32:28

So you got into Juilliard. When would that have been? New York City, 1981, when you arrived? Curtis Blow has just released the brakes not long before. I mean, paint a picture of it.

Wendell Pierce32:32

When you arrived, Curtis Blow

Wendell Pierce32:35

I remember going to Dance Eteria, man. I remember seeing Mary J. Blige and Jay-Z was actually still slinging, I think, over Marcy Apartments. So I'm a big jazz head, so I was going to all the jazz clubs and stuff. But, you know,

Presenter32:51

You're only 17 at this point.

Wendell Pierce32:53

I'm 17, but I was hanging out with all of these jazz musicians who had come up. Wenton was at Juilliard, and now he was starting to play with Art Blakey and the jazz messengers. I would go to his apartment, and we would, you know, sit at the feet of Art Blakey as he was just talking about the world and everything, you know, and artistry and what it takes to be a musician. So it was just real coming of age. I really saw what it took to be an artist.

Speaker 133:07

Stop.

Wendell Pierce33:17

At 17, living in New York and going to school at Juilliard was an absolutely amazing time.

Presenter33:23

Tell us about your next piece of music.

Wendell Pierce33:25

Now this next piece of music

Wendell Pierce33:27

is

Wendell Pierce33:30

First of all, it's just a beautiful, beautiful song.

Wendell Pierce33:34

Um

Wendell Pierce33:36

It says so much about me.

Wendell Pierce33:39

I always think of love.

Wendell Pierce33:41

When I think of this song.

Wendell Pierce33:45

Love to me is so multifaceted

Wendell Pierce33:49

and painful.

Wendell Pierce33:52

And what is life but love? And

Wendell Pierce33:57

I'm a sentimentalist, as you can hear in the conversation and in the selections, and this song is sustenance to that sentimentality and love and life, and the last lyric says it all. I really don't know life at all.

Wendell Pierce34:17

And that's both sides now, Tony Mitchell.

Speaker 334:20

But now old friends are acting strange They shake their heads, they say I've changed Well something

Speaker 334:33

But something's gay.

Speaker 334:36

Living every day

Speaker 334:40

I've looked at life from both sides now, and win and lose. And still somehow wins life's illusions. I recall, I really don't know life.

Speaker 135:01

The heart.

Presenter35:04

Joni Mitchell and both sides now. So Wendell Piercy once said that getting into the elite Juilliard Performing Arts School was confirmation that my heart had spoken to me and it had not lied. What were your expectations by the time you left?

Wendell Pierce35:15

We are expecting.

Wendell Pierce35:18

Um

Wendell Pierce35:19

I knew my heart had spoken to me because of my vocation.

Wendell Pierce35:22

Real, focused, serious concentration on craft.

Wendell Pierce35:28

You have to deal with your inadequacies.

Wendell Pierce35:30

And when I left Julia, the one thing that was clear was I wasn't an actor.

Wendell Pierce35:35

I went in with all the confidence in the world, and I came out of it thinking

Wendell Pierce35:39

There was so much work to be done. I'm sure that I wasn't an actor.

Wendell Pierce35:45

There was a sense of the imposter syndrome.

Wendell Pierce35:49

Actually, I still have a little bit of that. You had to overcome it.

Presenter35:53

How?

Wendell Pierce35:55

When in doubt do the work when in the deepest delve work even harder.

Wendell Pierce36:00

And when I got out of school, my first job, I thought I was going to go back to do radio.

Wendell Pierce36:06

And then I got a job and I said, no.

Wendell Pierce36:08

That was a fluke. Then I got another one. I was a that was a fluke. And by the end of my first year I said, Stop.

Wendell Pierce36:15

You're a professional actor. And once I declared it to myself and understood this mantra that I live by, employment doesn't define you as an artist.

Wendell Pierce36:26

And it's important to know that when you're unemployed, obviously. But it's also important when you are employed, because you have a lot of yes people, you know, you're the best thing since sliced bread, but you have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and to thine own self be true.

Presenter36:39

It sounds like you knew how to ace auditions back then.

Wendell Pierce36:42

Yeah.

Presenter36:43

Do you have any really memorable ones? What's your best audition?

Wendell Pierce36:45

My best edition is one of the highlights of my career. I always tell people.

Wendell Pierce36:51

Auditions are your opening and closing night. And if something comes of it, then that's lanyap as we call it in New Orleans. A little something extra. Okay. Lanyap.

Presenter37:00

Okay. Lanya.

Wendell Pierce37:02

I had an audition for Big Deal of New Musical on Broadway being done by the one and only Bob Fossey.

Presenter37:11

Wow.

Wendell Pierce37:12

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce37:12

And I had read Michael Shutler's audition book, and people had talked about all these little tricks they had done. And one in particular stuck in my head, so I decided to do it. They were coming out of rehearsal, it was on a break, and I was coming in to audition. And it's the moment in the musical where this boxer takes his life back from the mob who's kind of controlling him and telling him when he should take a dive and go, No, this is it.

Speaker 137:37

No.

Wendell Pierce37:38

I'm gonna take my life back. I'm gonna live my life.

Wendell Pierce37:42

And so I came in, they were taking a break, and all the actors and dancers and musicians were walking out. I said, Hold it, everybody.

Speaker 137:47

To hold

Wendell Pierce37:48

This is it. I'm going to take back my life. Jim, you do this. Jackie, you do that. This is my life. Bob Fozzie says, Oh, hold it, hold it, hold it. All right, everybody go to break. Come on, step up, young man and then turns to the accompanying on piano and he says, Give me an F vamp.

Wendell Pierce38:10

And the stage manager is fumbling through the pages. He doesn't know what to do. Bob Fossey says, Hold it and he walks up to me and says, All right, start. I said, All right, this is what we're gonna do. I'm gonna take back my life.

Wendell Pierce38:20

Jim, you do this. Jackie, you do that. I'm taking back my life. And he said his lines and he circled me and I said, Where are you going? I'm taking back my life And I did the whole scene with him. He came up to me, nose to nose, and he said

Wendell Pierce38:31

You're good, but you're too young. I'm like, oh He said, Oh, yeah, you're too young for this. I gotta find something for you, but you're too young. He said, I tell you this, man. I'm gonna look for something for you.

Wendell Pierce38:42

I said, Oh, thank you, mister Fossey, thank you.

Wendell Pierce38:45

And I walked out and I got home. My agent called me and said, What did you do? She said, I can't believe it because Bob Fosse called you. And he said, You were good, but you were too young. And he says he promised he's going to work with you this year.

Presenter38:56

Did he?

Wendell Pierce38:57

Cut to me in a hotel room in Washington DC, about to go to work on another play. I look on the television and I see the picture of Bob Fossey. I turn the television up and he said

Wendell Pierce39:08

Ladies and gentlemen, Bob Fussie died to day.

Wendell Pierce39:11

And I thought, Oh, my goodness

Wendell Pierce39:14

Bob Fosse dying and I was gonna work with him. I was gonna work with him and then I realized, wait a minute.

Wendell Pierce39:20

I did work with him. We had an audience of maybe two or three.

Wendell Pierce39:24

But

Wendell Pierce39:25

I got to work with Bob Fossey.

Presenter39:28

It's time for your sixth disc. What are we gonna hear and why have you chosen it?

Wendell Pierce39:33

I am a fallible man.

Wendell Pierce39:35

I won't speak of all the failures I've had in my life.

Wendell Pierce39:39

But the greatest is

Wendell Pierce39:42

When you fail.

Wendell Pierce39:44

with the people you care about.

Wendell Pierce39:46

And I think of family mostly.

Wendell Pierce39:50

When there's dysfunction, you just want it to be healed.

Wendell Pierce39:54

And the where that has been

Wendell Pierce39:57

on my mind so much as redemption

Wendell Pierce40:00

And this song is the epitome of redemption.

Wendell Pierce40:03

You know, the blues idiom, the idea of the blues idiom, is uh not that you are troubled and you have no recourse, but that you can do something about it no matter what.

Wendell Pierce40:15

I ain't got no shoes, but I'm a still walk to Chicago.

Wendell Pierce40:20

That's the true blues idiom.

Wendell Pierce40:23

It's not just pathos, there's promise, and that is embodied in this song, and it's called Don't Give Up on Me Solomon Burke.

Speaker 340:42

If I fall short

Speaker 340:46

If I don't make the green

Speaker 340:51

If your expectations aren't met in me

Speaker 340:54

Today

Speaker 340:58

There's always to morrow.

Speaker 341:04

Or tomorrow

Wendell Pierce41:05

All night.

Wendell Pierce41:08

Hang in there, baby.

Wendell Pierce41:11

Sooner or later

Wendell Pierce41:14

I know I'll get it right.

Wendell Pierce41:18

Please don't give up on me.

Wendell Pierce41:22

Oh please don't give up on me.

Wendell Pierce41:28

Some of the

Presenter41:29

Solomon Burke and Don't Give Up on Me. That's the stuff, isn't it?

Wendell Pierce41:29

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce41:31

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce41:34

Yeah, plaintive.

Presenter41:34

Okay, Wendell Pierce, I want to take you back to New Orleans august two thousand five. So you made out of the city when Hurricane Katrina hit, but you didn't really then have any idea of the impact, the devastation that was going to follow.

Speaker 141:35

Okay, well

Speaker 141:38

Uh

Wendell Pierce41:38

Uh

Speaker 341:41

Uh-huh.

Wendell Pierce41:51

No. I came in that Saturday for a family vacation. I was on my way to Baltimore to start the season of The Wire.

Wendell Pierce42:01

And I got to the airport and I arrived. I was crazed and I said, What's going on? They said, The hurricane is coming. I said, What hurricane? The one in Florida? They said, Yeah, it turned. It's heading this way. And I got home and my mother said, Oh, this one is serious. I think we should leave. And I said, Oh, no, we don't have to leave.

Speaker 142:17

We like

Wendell Pierce42:18

Listen, if there's a mandatory evacuation we'll leave.

Wendell Pierce42:22

I said that because I thought

Wendell Pierce42:24

There's never been a mandatory evacuation, it won't happen. The next day, there was one. And so we left. We were still in the storm, sheltered at my uncle and aunt's home on the Mississippi River. And the storm passed through. We're all listening to the emergency broadcast system. And you normally hear this is the emergency broadcast system. This is a test. And it came on and it said, this is the emergency broadcast system.

Wendell Pierce42:51

This is not a test. We are in a state of emergency. The levees have broken in New Orleans, and I knew then.

Wendell Pierce42:59

That

Wendell Pierce43:00

The New Orleans had been destroyed.

Wendell Pierce43:03

Hunter Train Park was in some of the deepest part of the flooding.

Wendell Pierce43:06

And uh we weren't able to get back in for about eight weeks. But when we returned it was like a a nuclear holocaust. Just everything had been destroyed, gray, there was no green.

Presenter43:20

Hm. You took your parents back.

Wendell Pierce43:22

took my parents back and as uh

Wendell Pierce43:25

We came up to the house.

Wendell Pierce43:27

They just were destroyed. It was like losing the member of a family. Um I can hear my father's wailing. He said, We raised our sons in this house. We raised our sons in this house.

Wendell Pierce43:42

And I'd never forget the power and the impact of

Wendell Pierce43:46

Um

Wendell Pierce43:48

My parents at that point in their life losing everything.

Speaker 143:51

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce43:53

I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Wendell Pierce43:59

Um final.

Wendell Pierce44:02

Here they are considering the end of their own lives at that age.

Wendell Pierce44:07

understand that you

Wendell Pierce44:09

Look at your home and look at

Wendell Pierce44:11

your memorabilia and and now at that point in their life.

Wendell Pierce44:15

It was all destroyed and when I saw how painful it was for them.

Wendell Pierce44:20

I said before

Wendell Pierce44:22

They die, I want to get them back in this home.

Wendell Pierce44:26

And uh

Wendell Pierce44:28

I did that.

Wendell Pierce44:29

And we got back into the home about a year and a half later.

Presenter44:33

In that moment, looking at your parents in their grief, what were your feelings?

Presenter44:38

That was the house you grew up in, you know, that was your identity.

Wendell Pierce44:40

Yeah.

Wendell Pierce44:42

It it was uh

Wendell Pierce44:44

It is very painful.

Wendell Pierce44:46

I've seen my parents

Wendell Pierce44:48

Uh

Wendell Pierce44:49

In grief, once before when my older brother died,

Wendell Pierce44:54

He died about five years before.

Wendell Pierce45:00

I saw them just.

Wendell Pierce45:04

Wow Tortured.

Wendell Pierce45:06

in grief, in pain, and lost

Wendell Pierce45:10

And I saw them become these diminutive

Wendell Pierce45:16

Fragile souls

Wendell Pierce45:20

And then I saw it again that day when I brought them to the house.

Wendell Pierce45:24

And I knew that if I

Wendell Pierce45:28

demolished the home and had an empty lot.

Wendell Pierce45:32

It probably would.

Wendell Pierce45:33

Demolish them.

Wendell Pierce45:35

So I told the contractor, I said, I know this is going to sound stupid and crazy. I said, I don't want to ever see the lot empty. So we rebuilt from the inside out so we can keep some semblance of home.

Wendell Pierce45:49

And uh all I knew was I needed to get them back into the home or

Wendell Pierce45:54

or they would die.

Presenter45:55

And you did it. It was one of the first of a series of actions. You know, I said at the beginning that you were inspired by that experience to act in a number of different ways. Another one was in 2007. That was when you staged Waiting for Godot in two different locations amongst New Orleans' most devastated areas. Why did you want to be part of that production?

Wendell Pierce46:11

Mm-hmm.

Wendell Pierce46:16

Well, there was a picture of two men in the middle of the devastation of the flood calling for help to the Coast Guard helicopters that were flying above.

Wendell Pierce46:25

And the director said, I saw D D and Gogo.

Wendell Pierce46:29

and asked me to be a part of it. We did it with on the stage filled with fifteen thousand gallons of water and a rooftop coming out of the water. And then they asked us to bring it to New Orleans.

Wendell Pierce46:40

And I said we should do it in the Lower Ninth Ward, which was at the heart of the devastation. And it was there that so many people had died. And it was so emblematic of what was happening to us in New Orleans. So people from different classes, different races, different walks of life. The one moment in the play, I stood there and really broke character and just turned to people in the audience and said the lines, At this place in this moment of time, all mankind is us.

Wendell Pierce47:09

Let us do something while we have the chance.

Wendell Pierce47:12

We owed it to those who had come before to make sure that we rebuilt and rebuilt better. And that's when I put together Punch Drain Park Community Development Corps to rebuild my neighborhood house by house. To date, we've rebuilt forty houses.

Presenter47:29

It's time for your seventh disc.

Wendell Pierce47:31

My seventh disc is emblematic of that hope

Wendell Pierce47:35

uh that is so much a part of the American aesthetic.

Wendell Pierce47:40

And this is Americana.

Wendell Pierce47:42

It also makes me think of my mother, because she was so hopeful.

Wendell Pierce47:46

And if I'm going to be alone on an island, I need that optimism and hope.

Wendell Pierce47:51

And this is the seventh movement of Appalachian Spring by Aaron Copeland.

Presenter48:59

Part of the seventh movement of Aaron Copeland's Appalachian Spring, performed by the New York Philharmonic conducted by Leonard Bernstein.

Wendell Pierce49:07

And I remember.

Wendell Pierce49:11

When we moved back to Puncher Train Park and so many people had come back,

Wendell Pierce49:16

My mother was still alive.

Wendell Pierce49:19

I got them home before they died.

Wendell Pierce49:23

And I got the Louisiana Philharmonic to come to our neighborhood.

Wendell Pierce49:28

And I asked them to play this.

Wendell Pierce49:31

and forever.

Wendell Pierce49:32

That moment

Wendell Pierce49:34

and that piece of music will be defined

Wendell Pierce49:39

by the realization that we were back.

Wendell Pierce49:41

We had suffered through the worst and had returned.

Wendell Pierce49:45

Home.

Wendell Pierce49:47

The sense of home,

Wendell Pierce49:49

and a sense of optimism

Wendell Pierce49:52

of what was to come. And so whenever I hear that I think of

Wendell Pierce49:56

Have we been? We came back.

Presenter50:00

Wendell Pearce. You're obviously a hugely reflective.

Presenter50:04

Passionate person by nature. And at the minute, you're here in the UK on stage.

Presenter50:11

Taking on the role of Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman.

Presenter50:17

What kind of impact has that role had on you?

Presenter50:21

Living with that part and thinking about, you know, a life, what a life means, the limitations that might be placed on that life.

Wendell Pierce50:28

Uh it has affected me deeply. Um

Wendell Pierce50:32

Doing this play, uh, well, it's as difficult as anything I could have imagined.

Wendell Pierce50:40

Um misplay deals with a man's um insecurities.

Wendell Pierce50:46

Fears.

Wendell Pierce50:47

Wondering if uh

Wendell Pierce50:49

His best days are behind him.

Wendell Pierce50:52

What has he accomplished in life?

Wendell Pierce50:55

and trying to find a way

Wendell Pierce50:57

to give it purpose and finding redemption.

Wendell Pierce51:01

It serves the purpose of what art should always be, the forum where we collectively come together and reflect on who we are and declare what our values are.

Wendell Pierce51:11

and act on them in a purposeful way with a purposeful life. What thoughts are to the individual, art should be for the community as a whole, where we are moved to reflect and change our lives ultimately for the better, but for the common good. Willie is looking for something outside of himself to give him validity. Be liked by so many others.

Wendell Pierce51:39

And you will never want no.

Wendell Pierce51:41

L love and like yourself and you will never want.

Wendell Pierce51:46

the power that he has, the beauty of his his life is

Wendell Pierce51:50

within himself all the qualities of the man, of the father, of the

Wendell Pierce51:54

The husband that he wants to be is

Wendell Pierce51:57

is a powerful thing that's coming from within and not from the outside. And the ability to find that within is what Willie misses.

Presenter52:09

And is that a realization that you've been able to get to in your life?

Wendell Pierce52:16

I've come to the understanding.

Wendell Pierce52:19

I have a problem with the execution.

Wendell Pierce52:22

It's that simple.

Wendell Pierce52:24

But every day gives me an opportunity

Wendell Pierce52:28

to try to get it right.

Presenter52:31

We've got one more disc to go.

Wendell Pierce52:34

And this, this is spirituality.

Wendell Pierce52:37

It is eternal. It speaks to all humanity.

Wendell Pierce52:44

And this

Wendell Pierce52:46

Ultimately what I believe

Wendell Pierce52:49

Spirit is, and that's love.

Wendell Pierce52:52

And this is A Love Supreme by John Coltrane.

Wendell Pierce52:56

Part 1. An acknowledgment.

Speaker 353:02

Yeah.

Speaker 353:12

No no no no no

Presenter54:00

A Love Supreme, Part 1, An Acknowledgement. John Coltrane. It sounds so much cooler when you say it, Wendell Pierce. John Coltrane. Coltrane.

Wendell Pierce54:05

You say it Wendell Pierce.

Wendell Pierce54:07

Yeah.

Presenter54:08

I can carry that off.

Wendell Pierce54:09

Oh man, that now that will sustain you on a desert island.

Presenter54:13

Yes. Well, speaking of which, I'm about to cast you away to yours. What will you do when you arrive?

Wendell Pierce54:21

Wow Wait a minute now.

Wendell Pierce54:24

I didn't know that was a part of the uh

Wendell Pierce54:27

Examination of my soul, which this therapy session has been

Presenter54:29

Hmm.

Wendell Pierce54:32

I will bathe. I will take a bath in the water of the ocean. I imagine this aqua green, warm Caribbean desert island I've been placed on. I will wash away whatever trauma has brought me to this predicament.

Presenter54:52

And when you've done that, you'll have the books that you can start on to keep you busy. We'll give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. You can also have a book of your choice. What would you like?

Wendell Pierce55:03

Albert Murray.

Wendell Pierce55:05

The Omni Americans

Wendell Pierce55:07

You can see I'm proud of my people, my family. I'm going to hang on to that because it's about African Americans, the contribution they made to the human diaspora, to Western civilization. So that would be my book.

Presenter55:19

You can also have a luxury item.

Wendell Pierce55:21

Oh, it would be easy. I'm from New Orleans. I cook.

Presenter55:23

Mm-hmm.

Wendell Pierce55:24

But I know how to do seafood, so I would have a grill.

Presenter55:27

Oh.

Wendell Pierce55:28

So that we would have all kinds of wonderful grilled shrimp and lobster and uh I would be able to

Wendell Pierce55:36

Grill some beans and make some red beans and rice and all of that. I would be able to cook some wonderful meals on this grill. That would be my luxury item.

Presenter55:44

Then it's yours. And if you could only save one of these eight fantastic tracks that you've played us today, which would it be?

Wendell Pierce55:53

Mahalia Jackson's voice is singularly one of the most brilliant sounds.

Wendell Pierce56:01

ever to be heard on this earth.

Wendell Pierce56:05

Body and soul, and that's what I would love to have forever. So that's the one I will save.

Presenter56:12

Wendell Pierce, thank you so much for letting us hear your desert element.

Wendell Pierce56:14

Thank you for my therapy session. I am fully prepared to go back to rehearsing. Thank you so much for having me.

Presenter56:32

I loved meeting Wendell and listening to the story of his life. His love of New Orleans and appreciation of jazz shone through. Many jazz musicians have been cast away over the years, including Courtney Pine, Earl Hines, Dave Brubeck and Humphrey Littleton. But back in 1968, another famous son of New Orleans was cast away by Roy Plomley, jazz trumpeter and innovator, Louis Armstrong.

Speaker 356:55

Satch, both you and Jazz were born in New Orleans, Louisiana, right? That's right, Bob. That's the way it should be worded, because that's where you're at.

Speaker 357:05

When I was five years old I used to hear buddy bowling.

Speaker 357:09

You heard bodybuilding. Yeah, well they used to play on the sidewalk before they go into the funky ball hall on Saturday nights.

Speaker 157:09

Her body Baldwin.

Speaker 357:16

So we couldn't go in there, we're too young, but we could hear that half hour they played before they go in. So when people pass by,

Speaker 357:23

They stop in and hear a few sets on their way home. This was a great come-on to get the people in.

Speaker 157:27

Yeah, I remember

Speaker 357:28

How far could Buddy Bolden be heard, right across the city? Well, I mean, he he allowed me to hear from here to Sheffield.

Speaker 357:39

Satch, it would be a um an understatement, I think, to call your childhood underprivileged. You were brought up in the back of town district.

Speaker 357:45

Yeah, around the honky tonks. When did you get a chance to learn music, to learn to play an instrument? Well, uh in the orphanage, uh when I was in the orphanage, you know, for shooting my father's gun celebrating uh New Year's Eve, you know. This was just a huge. Everybody shoot their guns, but if they get caught, there's a different story, and I got caught. So I stayed in the orphanage home.

Speaker 158:01

Yeah, everybody's

Speaker 358:09

which they called uh Colored Wave Home for Boys. And uh they had a little band there for which they made me the

Speaker 358:17

The drama

Speaker 358:18

And they handed me the bugle. That's when I

Speaker 358:21

Really shy'cause they couldn't eat, they couldn't do nothing that I blow them different uh calls, you know?

Speaker 358:28

Are you paid on the river boats, too? Yes, sir. Whose band was that?

Speaker 358:32

Fate Maribles Band.

Speaker 358:34

Yeah, from 1919 to 1921. We used to play at the foot of Canal Street during the winter and then we'd go up the river all the way up to Davenport Highway.

Speaker 358:45

And that's where I've always made

Speaker 358:47

Big Spider-Bet

Speaker 358:48

This little kid just coming up with his horn, he's come on the boat.

Wendell Pierce58:51

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 358:52

Used to come and listen to you. Yeah, and we used to sit around and blow a little

Speaker 358:57

That's when I finally could play that piano in the mist. That was a great kid.

Speaker 359:03

What was the first break you had as a musician, joining King Oliver, was it?

Speaker 359:09

Well, I think all uh whatever I've done in music was my breaks'cause uh I never did look back after I left the offices.

Speaker 359:17

I used to playing all them good

Speaker 359:21

Top

Speaker 359:22

horn players place when they want to get off. It's it's send l little lure in my place, I love little fella, you know. Never did weigh over a hundred and twenty pounds.

Speaker 359:31

I don't know where I picked up all that weight, eating all the cabbages.

Speaker 359:38

Anyway, Louis, um King Oliver sent for you from Chicago in 1922.

Speaker 159:41

Okay, 1922.

Speaker 359:43

And I was just finishing up a funeral with the Tuxeda breast fan when I got the telegram. So I didn't go home, I just went right to the IC station and mama that fixed up that little fake salvage mistake with me, you know.

Speaker 159:49

I didn't look home.

Speaker 359:55

This was another useful letter. That's about the highlights of all of it.

Speaker 159:56

Little layer.

Speaker 31:00:01

But playing playing in in funerals was another useful source of income as well as the hundreds of years.

Speaker 11:00:01

But if

Presenter1:00:04

That's how

Speaker 11:00:05

Uh

Presenter1:00:05

Like

Speaker 31:00:06

Yeah. We play a field of march and you stand there watch it pass and tears come out your eyes.

Presenter1:00:11

The unmistakable voice of Louis Armstrong, just amazing, talking to Roy Plumley in 1968. You can hear that programme and over 2,000 other editions of Desert Island Discs on BBC Sounds and on our website. Next time, my guest will be TV script writer Russell T. Davis. Do join us then.

Speaker 11:00:56

Here's a question. A man escapes from one of the world's most brutal dictatorships. He's risked everything to do it. But once he's free, he digs a hole and he tunnels straight back in again.

Speaker 11:01:11

Why?

Speaker 11:01:12

I'm Helena Merriman, and over the past six months, I've been investigating an extraordinary escape story for BBC Radio four, a story involving a tunnel, a spy and an American T V network. To subscribe, search for Intrigue Tunnel twenty nine on BBC Sounds.