Nitin Sawhney

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Presenter0:05

I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:41

My castaway this week is the musician, producer and composer Nitin Sorney. As accomplished as he is versatile, he has spent the past quarter of a century creating music with a truly global palette of sound and a dizzying array of collaborators. On any given day, you might find him working with the London Symphony Orchestra, inviting Sir Paul McCartney round to play the wine glass, more on that later, planning a piece with choreographer Akram Khan, or scoring a Hollywood film. His many awards include an Ivan Novello for Lifetime Achievement and a CBE for his contribution to music. All this from a boy who was once banned from his school's music practice rooms. He says as an artist, you have an obligation to interact with society, to give you a sense of context. I get frustrated when I see artists pray at the shrine of themselves. Music is a universal language, expressing your feelings about everything, including society.

Presenter1:36

Nitin Sony, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hi. Now I know you're not keen on labels or being categorized. How do you describe what you do and the music that you make?

Nitin Sawhney1:46

Wow, that's a big question. I guess it's for me, music's just gotta come from the heart and it's a it's about catharsis, it's about really expressing what you feel. It's a kind of therapy in a way, and I think of music as a language, as you were saying. It's always felt that way to me, and I think I realized a few years ago that I'd spent more time playing music than I had speaking in my life, and I feel more comfortable expressing my ideas or thoughts or intuitions through music.

Speaker 21:59

Yeah.

Presenter2:13

You say that music should be a place of freedom. Tell me a bit more about that.

Nitin Sawhney2:17

Well, I suppose the default kind of position in music or musical expression as an artist is you have no barriers. And for me, I look at it as a playground of exploration and I'm always looking for new sounds and new ways of thinking as well through music. And so it's not just about being open to traversing geographical divides, but it's also about ideas of your imagination and experimentation with sound as well.

Presenter2:42

We're in store for some thrillingly diverse musical choices today. How was it narrowing your choices down to just eight discs?

Nitin Sawhney2:49

Very difficult. I love so much music from all around the world. I mean, there's so many influences on what I think of musically as a composer as well. So to actually boil it down to just eight tracks is is very difficult for me. It was quite a task. I'm sorry about that.

Presenter3:04

Let's get started though, let's hear your first. Why have you chosen this?

Nitin Sawhney3:07

Nusra Fatih Ali Khan Must Must, I love this track and particularly Massive Attack's remix. It's from 1990 and it was from an album that Nusra Fatih Ali Khan did with Michael Brooke and it's just so evocative in so many ways. The beat is incredible, it's kind of got a real dubby sound to it. The remix has a real club flavour and I think for a lot of people, a lot of Asian young people at the time, I think it was a big influence on what they called the Asian underground scene. I remember hearing it in clubs very early in the 90s and it just sounded amazing. And Massive Attack's sonic genius with the way they bring out Nusra Fatih Ali Khan's voice, I think is fantastic. His voice just transcends every boundary and every barrier and that's what I really love about it.

Presenter4:35

Nitin Soni, your compositional range is surely unparalleled for its cultural diversity. For your album Prophecy, for example, you worked with Bollywood Orchestra, street children in Brazil, Native American musicians. Why is it so important not just to listen to a wide range of music from around the world, but to actually create music with those people?

Nitin Sawhney4:59

Well, I think with Prophecy, I wanted to really get out of a parochial mindset in a way and just kind of see the world. And so, you know, going and over and meeting Aboriginal Australians in Arnhem Land or, as you said, all those different people and ultimately meeting Nelson Mandela in his house. Yes, which was incredible. And I wanted an album that felt open and that came from a global experience rather than just me trying to take music or sample music from different parts of the world. I wanted it to have a real sense of authenticity to it.

Presenter5:14

Yes, we'll come to that.

Speaker 25:15

Uh

Presenter5:33

You met and interviewed Nelson Mandela, as you mentioned. I mean, who wouldn't have wanted to meet Nelson Mandela? Tell me about that encounter.

Nitin Sawhney5:39

I met him in his house in Johannesburg, and it was weird because I just literally read the last page of Long Walk to Freedom, his autobiography. And to go from reading the last page in his garden to walking into his house and meeting him, but the most amazing part of that experience was when his PA came into the room and said, Madiba, which is what they called him, Mediba, the president, is on the phone to speak to you. And he looked at me and just said, How many more questions have you got? And I said, Two or three. And he turned to his PA and said, Could you ask him to call back in ten minutes? Now, the thing about that that blew me away was I had this idea from the book of him as an egalitarian and somebody who really valued every human being the same way. And in his speech at Riviona, he actually said that he stood for the struggle of all people against oppression, not just black South Africans, which I found quite moving. But I don't know if I really believed it. So then when I met him and he just did that, I nearly burst into tears because for me, I thought, wow, that guy's actually real. And it was very strange because I'm quite cynical about I mean, it takes a while for me to trust people. And I think when I saw that, I just was really moved.

Nitin Sawhney6:52

Yeah.

Presenter6:52

Uh

Nitin Sawhney6:52

Time.

Presenter6:52

Your second track, tell us why you've chosen this one.

Nitin Sawhney6:56

Pacadi Luthea, this is Guehera de Luthea. Pacadi Luthea for me is my favourite, probably my favourite musician who's ever lived. He transcended his instrument in so many ways. He had not just his technical virtuosity, which was unparalleled, and still I've never heard anyone play guitar like him, but it's also his spirit of innovation and exploration. But he also brought a real finesse to the flamenco guitar. And I think this piece really sums up everything about him. It's a beautiful track.

Presenter8:29

Paco de Lucia. Guajiras de Lucia. Knitting saw me. During that track you're actually shaking your head and rolling your eyes in disbelief at the technical skill involved.

Nitin Sawhney8:39

Yeah, I mean, I d I do play this piece. I went to see him play many times with John McLaughlin. And most of the time you've just got your jaw on the ground'cause you're just thinking, How is anyone playing like that?

Presenter8:50

Sunitin, your mother and father came to the UK before you were born. They were Hindus from the north of India and had married out of caste, which was quite unusual.

Nitin Sawhney9:00

Yeah, I mean my mum and dad have always been open-minded about everything and my mum comes from the Brahmin caste which is the highest caste and my dad he's from the Kshatri caste, from the warrior caste. I love the fact that their marriage wasn't arranged. They fell in love and married each other and defied social pressures. That's who they were and um I'm very proud of that fact.

Presenter9:22

Tell me a little bit more about your mum. I know that you described her once as the power behind the throne.

Nitin Sawhney9:28

So, yeah, I think she's a very measured sort of person. She knows a lot of Sanskrit. She's very graceful. She was a Bharat Nathyam dancer, an Indian classical dancer. She's an incredible poet. She's written quite a few lyrics on albums I've written, but the power that comes from her is not a power that's loud and brash. It's a power that's still and thoughtful and draws a lot of energy from everywhere. She was the first one to spot your musical ability. I think she was excited. The excitement I showed with the piano. I remember when I was four years old, just the first piano I saw, I remember running up to it and banging the keys and being very excited. And I still feel that way. And I think, yeah, my mum was always encouraging about that.

Presenter10:13

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney10:13

What's a l

Presenter10:13

BAAP

Nitin Sawhney10:14

and sitar and tabla.

Nitin Sawhney10:15

Yeah, I did at a nearby Gudwara, which is a Sikh temple. We're from a Hindu background, but I would regularly go there and I really loved the, you know, just hearing musicians playing the doubler and the sita. I just found it's both instruments so exciting. And also learning about the mathematics of doubler, which is very complex, and of Indian classical music was really helpful with composition that I was coming up with at the time.

Presenter10:40

Your father's featured in your work in one way or another several times over the years. He was a chemical engineer professionally. How did he influence you?

Nitin Sawhney10:48

My dad, I remember at his funeral I broke down a little bit when I was talking about the fact that he would drive me to piano lessons every week and that summed him up in a way because he was just always there. Also he had an incredible love of music. He would play music from Cuba. He loved crooners. He loved flamenco. He was really into jazz. You know, I first heard Miles Davis through him. He was very into Indian classical music as was my mum. You couldn't predict what was going to be on the record player when you came into the house because he was so in love with so much music and it was the same with my mum as well.

Nitin Sawhney11:28

It's time for your next track. This is your third disc. Why have you chosen it?

Nitin Sawhney11:32

Ennio Morricone is my film composer hero, he and Bernard Herrmann. But Ennio Morricone, just from the point of view of the sounds he would use, I mean, I think for the spaghetti westerns, he wanted to use an orchestra, but I don't think there was the budget for him to do that. And I think as a result, he came up with such an innovative sound and used avant-garde musicians and singers to get across his incredible ideas. And I think the music for that trilogy of Fist for the Dollars for a Few Dollars More and the Good and the Bad and the Ugly, it's just so evocative. You can see every scene with each cue you hear, and it's the feel and the, I don't know, it's hard for me to put into words, but I just find it very inspirational and very powerful.

Speaker 212:20

Fight! Wait, this fight!

Presenter12:53

A fistful of dollars from the original film soundtrack composed and performed by Enyu Morricone. Nitin Soni, you first visited India aged eight. What do you remember about it?

Nitin Sawhney13:04

Well, I had a fantastic experience. It was a stunning place for me, and it felt mythological. You know, it felt like I was walking into a dream. I also kind of had an incredible experience of meeting lots of my relatives because my mum and dad were each the eldest of nine brothers and sisters. So we had lots of relatives, and my dad's brother was getting married in a place called Nabha. And I remember I was kind of a mascot, which is called a savala. And I was on this horse at one point, as you are, with the groom, with my uncle. And we were kind of like riding through the village with this brass band playing When the Saints Go Marching In around us, which is one of the most surreal things I can remember. But I remember being this precocious little brat because I was crying. And the reason I was crying was because the band was so out of tune, and no one could understand this. They'd go, What the hell's wrong with you? I was going, they're really out of tune.

Speaker 213:19

This is a

Nitin Sawhney13:58

I had an amazing time, and being surrounded by that much love and great energy as well was incredible. Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney14:04

Back in the UK.

Presenter14:04

You attended uh Joseph Williamson's Mathematical School for Boys in Rochester in Kent, and this would have been the mid seventies. It sounds like a fairly bleak experience at school for you.

Nitin Sawhney14:14

Yeah, well, I don't think it was all bleak. I had some really good friends there. I mean, James Taylor, who's from the James Taylor Quarter, was a really close friend of mine. But I think I had a bad experience in that it was more about the time. We had the National Front leafleting every day outside the school gates, being followed home by a guy in a van with a loud halo shouting out racist abuse at me was pretty crazy as well. But also, you know, I don't really want to go into it too much, but there was one particular teacher, he banned me from the school music rooms for six years because I actually was playing an Indian classical rag at the time on the piano. And he came into the practice room and saw me doing that and asked me where my sheep music was. And I remember I was 11 years old and I said, well, you don't have sheep music for this. It's an oral tradition. And he just said, well, if you don't have sheep music, it's not music. So get out. And then I was banned for six years.

Presenter15:10

So given that experience, how did you describe your own sense of identity at the time?

Nitin Sawhney15:16

I've actually talked about this with my therapist. So I've kind of talked about how I felt. It's weird because I was attacked physically and verbally, almost on a daily basis for quite a while when I was very young. And there was part of me that has a bit of loathing for that person. I actually felt that that person was a bit weak and pathetic. And it's odd, isn't it, that that kind of mentality stays with you, that you kind of feel a sense of shame about abuse of all kinds. And trying to get past that is a real journey. I think in some ways that negativity, that feeling of shame actually drove quite a lot of my creativity at the time. I wanted to not feel that way.

Presenter16:02

You mentioned earlier that you, you know, can be a little cynical and and you find it difficult to trust people. That presumably stems back to those experiences too.

Nitin Sawhney16:11

Absolutely, yeah, without a doubt. I mean, it takes me time to to uh get to know people and to to think I can just um be myself with them. You know, I I felt that I couldn't really speak to anyone and um I think I probably became quieter and quieter in terms of how I uh communicated with others. But I think music I I probably became more and more confident.

Presenter16:17

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney16:33

Let's have your next track. Tell me about your fourth.

Nitin Sawhney16:36

Joni Mitchell, who's oh my god, I mean like when when I was a teenager, Joni Mitchell was on rotation. Jonie Mitchell's voice and also her guitar playing, she's such a consummate musician. And I I think she um is is probably my favorite singer of all time.

Speaker 216:53

Late last night, I heard the screen door slam.

Speaker 216:58

And a big yellow taxi took away my old man.

Speaker 217:05

Don't it always seem to go

Presenter17:06

Oh, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. The pay paradise, put up a parking lot.

Presenter17:15

I said, don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone?

Presenter17:23

They paid paradise, put up a parking lot

Presenter17:28

Joni Mitchell and big yellow taxi Mittin Sonny In 1982 you enrolled at Liverpool University to study law.

Nitin Sawhney17:36

Why not music? Well, as an Asian kid, I mean, there wasn't really a precedent for me to follow. I didn't really have any role models. Oh, there's an Asian artist who's actually managed to make a living out of music. I didn't really know of any in this country. I remember my mum once saying, if you can be like Punditji Ravishanka, then great. You know, then you should go off and try and make a living. But otherwise, you need to do something, get a proper job. You didn't finish your law degree. How did that go down with your parents? It didn't go down very well. But then part of the reason why I changed from that was because my brother said you can make a better living as an accountant, which is why I studied then. This is getting further and further away from music. So far away from music. But then, having said that, I was gigging all the time during this. Bizarrely, I ended up as a financial controller of a hotel. And one day I just walked out of the job and joined my mate's band, the James Taylor Quartet. And I never looked back. I was about 23, 24 at the time. Just got back in.

Presenter18:14

Yeah.

Presenter18:15

Away from music.

Presenter18:33

Tiny bit, though. Having left Liverpool, you went to study accountancy at the University of Hertfordshire, and it was there that your life took another new turn when you met Sanjeev Bhaskar. The two of you formed the comedy duo Bargie Boys, which you later renamed Secret Asians. What was the initial idea?

Nitin Sawhney18:51

Well the initial idea was just Sange and I just having fun. He just always made me laugh but he was a very intelligent, lovely, compassionate, empathic human being so hanging out with him was a real pleasure. We didn't really necessarily have an agenda, we just kind of used to muck around on stage and it became a comedy act and uh sometimes I'd be playing music and sometimes I'd be riffing with him and we'd be improvising just in character.

Presenter19:16

You were discovered by two B B C producers and the act developed into the sitcom, goodness gracious me first on radio and then on T V. What did the experience give you?

Nitin Sawhney19:26

Uh I think it gave me a lot more confidence. It's interesting because getting this visceral reaction from an audience in response directly to something you've just done, I really enjoyed that kind of immediacy and you get a buzz from that and it can be quite addictive. So I think it gave me a lot more confidence and feeling relaxed on stage. As in, I didn't feel intimidated by a group. I mean, you know, when I'd been growing up, if I saw a group of people walking towards me in the street, my natural reaction was to feel intimidated. So to be in front of an audience and feel like you're in control of the situation as in you're setting the agenda of what happens next was quite

Speaker 219:58

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney20:08

I don't know, it was very empowering. Yeah, it was very empowering. Yeah, that's the word. Thank you.

Speaker 220:09

Uh

Presenter20:09

Empower

Speaker 220:09

Frank

Nitin Sawhney20:12

I'm positive. Absolutely. I used to get very nervous getting on stage, but now I think it's like inviting people into my living room and just chatting to them. Whether you're playing the Royal Abbott Hall, whether you're playing a small venue, it's the same thing. Time to go to the music. This is your fifth. This is Debussy. I love Debussy's music. If you play through arabesque on the piano, it's like a waterfall. You can feel it in your hands and see it.

Presenter20:36

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney20:36

Fingers are moving. If only we had a keyboard here. A few years ago I was asked by Saddler's Wells to work with Siddhi Labi Cherakawi, who's an amazing choreographer, on an interpretation of this piece. It's so evocative, it's so cinematic, it really draws you into a picture so beautifully. But yeah, I think his music is just gorgeous, and this is one of my favourite pieces.

Presenter20:38

It's here.

Presenter22:06

Debussy's Prelude Alla Pré Midi d'Enfon, performed by the London Symphony Orchestra with Peter Lloyd on flute, conducted by Andre Previn. Nit in Sony, even before Goodness Gracious Me took off, you were releasing your own albums. The first Spirit Dance came in 1993. How had record labels responded when you approached them with your music?

Nitin Sawhney22:26

Oh, as soon as I said my name, a lot of record labels would say, Well, we don't do Bungra. And I'd say, Well, I don't either. And it was just an assumption at that time. Again, there wasn't really a precedent for any Asian artist to actually make music in any mainstream context or anything like that. And when they'd ask me what I wanted to do with my music, I'd try and describe it and then I'd say, No, I want to bring in some Indian classical influences. And they'd go, Yeah, right. And pretty much switch off. So I was helped out at that early stage by the Arts Council of England and also by World Circuit, Nick Gould's label. And Nick's an amazing influence on music from all over the place, and he really knows this stuff. And I feel very proud of the fact that my first album was through them.

Presenter23:09

It was your fourth album, Beyond Skin, released in nineteen ninety nine, that would be your breakthrough, combining soul, rap, and electronica with classically trained singers and rhythms from Katak Dance. It won the South Bank Award for popular music, and you were also nominated for the Mercury Prize. How did you feel about the recognition that you were starting to receive?

Nitin Sawhney23:28

I was really blown away by the fact that it got Mercury nominated because it was such a personal album. You know, it features my mum and dad talking about their experiences as immigrants in a very optimistic way. And yeah, it was very exciting as well because I'd gone from playing, you know, over the 90s, we'd gradually played to bigger and bigger audiences. I remember the first time I played the Jazz Cafe, it was to about 70 odd people, and then it was packed later on with the next album, and the next album after that, the queues down the road. And then suddenly I was playing the Royal Albert Hall, and it was sold out. And I was thinking, oh my god, this is mad, you know. And then I was reading in the Face magazine, you know, Madonna said, I've got all of Nittin's albums. I was going, what the hell's going on? Because it's kind of like I thought I'm making really personal statements and music. You know, I'm incorporating quite complex music that is based in the TAL system of India, which is very rhythmically complex mathematically. So for that to actually have an acceptance within society, I mean, that was very exciting to me. Time for some more music. This is your sixth disc. Shakthi was my favourite band when I was growing up just because I could not believe what I was hearing. I'd seen John McLochlin on television and I just remember thinking this man was an unbelievable musician. But then hearing him with Shakti was such a revelation to hear him play with Zaki Hussain and Viku, who was playing the Gutham, and the instruments like the Murdungam and the violin played by El Shankar as a Carnatic instrument. It was incredible to hear this combination and just sounded like everything I wanted to hear at that time. And the way in which they all worked together seamlessly is one unit. It just sounds like one being. So this is Shakti Mind Ecology from the album Natural Elements.

Presenter26:00

Shakti and Mind Ecology Knit in Sawney.

Presenter26:03

So many collaborations for you over the years. Sting, Brian Eno, Sinead O'Connor, Jeff Beck, Ellie Goulding, A. R. Rahman, Anoushka Shankar. But I've read you say that working with Paul McCartney was a particular highlight. He was supposed to play the wine glass, but he didn't. Well

Nitin Sawhney26:19

So I've known Paul McCartney for a long time, and he came over um the first time back in the nineties to the the shared flat I was in with Sanjeev Baskar actually. It was amazing'cause he called me up in the morning and said, um I'm thinking of coming over and watching what you're doing. And I was kind of quite worried about that.

Presenter26:35

What was the flat? Looking round the flat, if our There's an Island Discs listener was there, what might they have seen? Mess.

Nitin Sawhney26:43

So basically everyone was frantically running around, hoovering and doing all kinds of things, trying to figure out what to do with random cardboard boxes. And then he came up the stairs to my tiny bedroom where I had all my studio gear and he looked around and then he looked at me and just said, I used to live in a place like this. And he said, I wrote a track called Scrambled Eggs in a room a bit like this. And he sat down and played yesterday on my guitar, which is what that was. It was called Scrambled Eggs originally. So I was like, okay, Paul McCartney's in my bedroom playing yesterday to me. This is an interesting point in my life. And so anyway, I got to know him. And then one time I was at his house and David Gilmore was there. And they decided to have a jam at one point. So I ended up playing piano with David Gilmore's saxophone and Paul McCartney singing. And then later on at the dinner, Paul McCartney's just started playing a note on the wine glass just with his finger, just as we were chatting. And I said, you know what? It would be amazing if you appeared on my next album, but not playing bass or singing, but just playing the wine glass. And he said, I really like that idea. So he turned up, but then he brought his bass and we ended up writing a song together, obviously. You're not going to turn that down if it comes knocking on your door.

Presenter27:51

You're not going to turn that down.

Presenter27:54

Yeah, exactly. Time for some more music. We're gonna hear your seventh disc.

Nitin Sawhney27:54

Yeah, exactly.

Nitin Sawhney27:58

Uma Sengare is one of my favourite singers. I love music from Mali. There are so many great musicians who've come out of Mali, which is ironic because a few years ago music was banned in Mali, and there were 50 musicians who got together and protested at the ban. But Uma Sengare, she's just got rhythm in her voice. And I love the fact that the backing singers who work with her, when we were performing live, they would throw up these clay pots in the air and catch them as they were singing. It was incredible to watch. So they're very theatrical, and her voice is, I think, second to none, just an incredible voice.

Nitin Sawhney28:34

Uh

Speaker 228:34

What's up, y'all? My name is

Nitin Sawhney28:40

Pasova buddy

Speaker 328:46

Uh

Speaker 228:46

Pone ta ma munso ba hula, a de managede po pula, anga puru pune pune.

Presenter28:59

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Presenter29:10

The Golden Voice of Mali, Umu Sangare and Nusolu. Nitin Sauni You've had so much success with all your endeavours and of course it's brought with it as these things do lots of awards. In two thousand seven you turned down an OBE. This year you accepted a CBE. What changed your mind?

Nitin Sawhney29:27

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney29:27

So when I turned down the OBE, there were two main reasons. One was the war in Iraq, and the second reason was I couldn't really handle the idea of the word empire after my name. The historical associations with that were pretty dark to me. But then my dad, before I turned it down, he said, Would you not take it for my birthday? Which was coming up. And I said, No, I can't. And then he passed away in 2013. Then I got a letter last year on his birthday. And so I kind of into signs. So I kind of thought, okay, I'm going to take it because it just feels like I should. Now, I took it also because of the time we're in. I wanted to acknowledge my mum and dad's immigrant experience. And that's what my dad said to me. He said, we worked really hard and we came here to give you a better life. And that OBE would have meant at the time, would have symbolized that. And so when it did come, that letter, I just thought, you know, I mean, I'm also, I don't want to sound disingenuous. I mean, obviously, any award or anybody saying, you know, that they appreciate what you do is an honour and a privilege, obviously. But I guess it was just always that word empire that I had an issue with. I still do. So for me, I've taken that award not for any title, but to acknowledge my parents and their journey as immigrants, to honour both of them.

Presenter31:00

Looking back now on the young boy taking refuge in his bedroom from the bullies playing music, what would you say to him?

Nitin Sawhney31:07

Uh

Nitin Sawhney31:09

I don't know what I'd say to him.

Nitin Sawhney31:11

It's a very difficult question. I don't think I'd say anything, you know, because I wouldn't change anything because I've had a very lucky journey and I think I I don't want to really live in the past or the future. What I love is process and celebrating the moment. So I wouldn't want to interrupt my experience of the moment when I was a child.

Nitin Sawhney31:33

Mission Sony, it's now Time for your final Track. And why have you chosen

Presenter31:37

Uh

Nitin Sawhney31:38

BAP

Nitin Sawhney31:38

This is from Sue Georges and it's his interpretation of Life on Mars and he's sung it in Portuguese. His voice is incredible and it's lovely to hear that track strip back to just uh guitar and and vocals and he's a great actor as well as a brilliant musician. But I was blown away when I found out what a great singer he is.

Speaker 331:59

Siopo de Vin Du Sol.

Nitin Sawhney32:00

Oh

Speaker 332:02

Minyami Ji the Mil

Speaker 332:05

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Speaker 332:14

Voqueere mi mudad.

Speaker 332:18

Out of my life some more

Presenter32:29

Sayu Georgi, and Life on Mars. It's time to cast you away then, Netinsawny. How do you think the island would inspire you musically?

Nitin Sawhney32:37

Oh, wow. Well, actually, one of my safe places to go in my head is always to go to a beach. I love looking at ocean waves. I really get that feeling of infinity when I look at an ocean. So I think I could just sit there staring at an ocean for hours and play music.

Presenter32:54

The Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare to read. You can choose another book, too. What will yours be?

Nitin Sawhney32:59

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney33:00

My book would be The Fabric of Reality from David Deutsch. David Deutsch came up with an idea which people know of as the multiverse, where he talks about parallel universes. I went and interviewed David Deutsch after reading this book at Oxford University, where he was a visiting professor. It was almost like a pilgrimage. When I'd read this book, I thought, I need to understand this. This guy's talking about the nature of everything. And it was just mind-blowing. The stuff he was telling me. And really inspiring book. And the first chapter of it alone blows your mind. You can also have a luxury. What would you like to take? I'd like to take a desalinating water bottle. I remember seeing this guy do a TED talk where he was demonstrating how this water bottle could actually literally be put in sewage water and then you could pull it out and you could spray water from it into another bottle and drink it. And I thought, that can't be possible. And it apparently is. So, I mean, I know I'm not supposed to be too practical. I was just going to say, Nitty.

Presenter33:50

And I

Presenter33:56

Yeah.

Nitin Sawhney33:57

I was kind of pretty impressed by that.

Presenter33:58

It's problems for me.

Presenter34:00

So are you telling me that you just want to luxuriate in the remarkable engineering feat of the bottle itself and just look at it? Yeah, it's just that. Okay, great. Then you can have it.

Presenter34:10

Finally, which of these eight tracks would you want to save if you had to choose just one?

Nitin Sawhney34:15

I would definitely save Nasrat Fatih Ali Khan must-must remix by massive attack.

Presenter34:19

Nitin Sony, thank you so much for sharing your Desert Island discs with us. Thank you.

Presenter34:34

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nittin and all the wonderful music that he chose. As I'm sure you know, there are many composers in the Desert Island Discs back catalogue: Thea Musgrave, John Rutter, Michael Nyman, Sir Michael Tippett and Sir James Macmillan. You can listen to them via the Desert Island Discs website or on BBC Sounds.

Presenter34:53

Nitin talked about his friendship with Sanjeev Bhaskar and their work together on Goodness Gracious Me. Sanjeev was cast away by Kirstie Young in 2008.

Presenter35:02

Let's talk then about student life. Started performing an act.

Speaker 235:06

Acting and writing when you were a student? Yeah, uh I yeah, I didn't do anything at school at all. And uh when I got to university to do m a marketing degree I did um drama, free choice drama, so it was weekends and evenings. I just thought well if I can't be any good here then there's absolutely no point in me trying to pursue it. Then then I'd just kind of kill that off and and focus on marketing.

Presenter35:26

Is it true that your father used to whisper in your ear

Speaker 335:28

I want to be a businessman.

Speaker 235:30

Yeah, but yeah, I mean that's for me that's the the earliest indication of subliminal marketing. Uh except I said I want to be an actor, which my dad dad then said, uh we pronounce it doctor.

Speaker 235:41

When did you say I want to be an actor? Uh, according to my mum, when I was about three.

Speaker 235:47

Uh rather frighteningly my son's indicated something very similar and he's nearly at that age, so.

Presenter35:51

He's nearly a

Speaker 235:53

So, yeah, I'm going to have to work on the subliminal marketing a little harder. And you mentioned a while ago Nitin Soni, who is a very well-known composer now.

Presenter36:02

Two things.

Speaker 236:02

At the time the two of you became firm friends and he was writing with you? Yeah, well we just figured that there was nobody out there that reflected our experience of being both British and Asian. And I think coming through a period of time where you'd had programmes like Mind Your Language or Love Thy Neighbour or Till Death Hustle Part where you know the being foreign was the gag. In something like Till Death Hustle Part it wasn't. But to all intents and purposes if you were a minority what you got called the day after the show was on were the names. Nobody kind of deconstructing what Alf Garnet was like and his ridiculous bigoted position. You got called the names.

Nitin Sawhney36:25

In exit.

Presenter36:42

Had you ever wished in in those growing up years that you didn't have to be Asian?

Speaker 236:47

Yes, I did, yeah. I was kind of embarrassed about being Asian. I remember kind of trying to I tried to toy with the idea. Somebody kind of said to me at the swimming pool once, and I asked them in about nine or ten, and they said, What's your name? and I went

Speaker 237:00

Devon? And it was just so utterly lacking in confidence. If I'd gone, It's Steve they would have gone, Oh, Steve, do you want to come and play that? But it was kind of there was a question mark at the end of it as well. It was'cause Stephen? Or maybe Samuel or something? So, yeah, I'm uh very much uh embarrassed about the fact that, you know, my

Speaker 237:19

Mother didn't wear skirts, or that we had food that was very different. We didn't have boiled food at home. You know, what a godsend that was when I look back on it now. But it took me.

Speaker 237:30

some time to appreciate that I had this kind of uh fabulous wealth of experience.

Nitin Sawhney37:35

That's that's

Presenter37:40

and talk about the funny things in your life, much of which was the Asian experience and your very Asian parents. That's quite a journey from the nine-year-old who's pretending he's having fish, fingers and peas.

Speaker 237:45

Yeah.

Speaker 237:52

It is, and I think part of that, what helps is that, is finding other people, finding other people that share that experience. I mean, one of the things, certainly with goodness gracious me, that bonded us all immediately was this kind of outpouring of shared experiences. It was very tentative. I remember the first couple of meetings, and someone would say.

Presenter37:55

Yeah.

Speaker 238:08

Does your mum keep a suitcase on top of the wardrobe? And someone would say, you know, are your remote controls still covered in cling film? And they'd be, oh my god, thank God for that. Yes, they do. What was in the suitcase, I'm wondering? Do you know, it was clothes. And it was part of that mentality of we don't know when we're going to have to move and when the National Front were in power. There were times when you thought, well, I really don't know which way this is going to go. I don't know where the mood of the nation is going.

Speaker 238:37

You had the suitcase on top of the wardrobe, you grabbed that and you ran.

Presenter38:41

Sanjeev Bhaskar talking to Kirstie back in 2008.

Presenter38:45

Next week, I'll be casting away Glastonbury co-organiser Emily Evis. Do join us then.

Speaker 339:07

We all live in a digital world. How we work, how we play, the way we live, navigate the world, morals, laws, memories, even how we generate a thought and we share it with someone, these are all filtered, stored, and sorted by the technology in our devices, in the cloud, and even in the pavement beneath our feet. So we have to ask, how is the technological world shaping us as people? I'm Alex Kratosky, and I want to introduce you to The Digital Human, the podcast that tells the stories of being human in the digital age. Subscribe to us on BBC Sounds.