Martin Freeman

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. This is an extended version of the original Radio 4 broadcast and, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:44

My castaway this week is the actor Martin Freeman. A familiar face on our screens for almost 20 years, he is as prolific as he is popular, having starred in over 30 films and even more television shows. His range is remarkable, and he's often praised for the seemingly contradictory qualities of immense versatility and remarkable relatability. His talent for naturalism means audiences believe him and root for him whatever he plays. Whether it's lovable Tim from The Office, Sherlock Holmes's brooding Watson, The Hobbits steadfast Bilbo Baggins, or smooth CIA operative Everett K. Ross in Black Panther. He says, I'm always praying that the next thing I read is something I'm going to love, and that can be a film, a play, or TV. For that three-minute scene, it's my job to convince people I am that person. It's not about the form, it's about the content. Martin Freeman welcomed a Dazzle Island Discs.

Martin Freeman1:38

Thank you, Lauren.

Presenter1:39

So, given that it is about the content, what is it that makes you excited when you read it? What are you looking for?

Martin Freeman1:45

I suppose I'm looking for a true voice, I guess. The difference between reading a script that within six pages has you or one that doesn't have you is very often when you think well this writer means it. If it doesn't feel like it's been written by a committee, that's good. And for my own purposes, if it doesn't feel like something that I've done three of in the last two years, that's a big thing. But I'm a big fan of in all aspects of life of people not begging to be liked. There's a way sometimes that scripts come across with all singing, all dancing, whistles, and begging you to like it. And I like things that are a bit more their own pace. Like I like people who are a bit more their own pace, you know what I mean, who aren't desperate for you to approve of them all the time, you know. So I'm sort of looking for those things.

Presenter2:28

Your approach as an actor seems like it's very much show don't tell. Would audiences be surprised by how hard you're sometimes working to create that very naturalistic performance?

Martin Freeman2:38

Well, yeah, I guess so. I mean, it's a conversation that we have as actors sometimes, and it can sound a bit self-pitying to kind of get, listen, because my working life is going fine, so I'm very lucky with that. But I think it's your job to not show any work. You know, if you wouldn't do it in real life, don't do it in front of a camera, you know, or on stage. And sometimes, if you are reasonably effective at that, people just think, oh, he's just doing that thing. Do you know me? No, he's just doing himself or whatever. And they think, well, if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it. And they're not, you know, they're not doing it. So there is a lot of work involved. But also, the people who made me want to be an actor when I was a kid were people who just sort of didn't seem to be doing anything. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, the best of Michael Keynes and he's doing nothing, you know. So when I was nine, I didn't know there were actors like Michael Keynes because I thought, who's this person? Because there was something very relatable about him.

Speaker 13:19

You know what I mean?

Martin Freeman3:30

and very sort of very masculine without being macho. And I believed him. I mean, I b I believed him. You know, Tom Courtney or you know, just people who were were

Martin Freeman3:40

Often men who just had a bit of um nuance about them, I suppose.

Presenter3:46

And two of your best known characters that I've already mentioned, Bilbo Baggins in The Hobbit and Doctor Watson in Sherlock, they were already part of the popular canon. So many viewers coming to your performances might have had their own ideas about those characters.

Martin Freeman3:50

Uh

Martin Freeman3:53

So

Presenter3:59

When you're doing something like that, how do you go about creating your version and making it something new?

Martin Freeman4:02

And maybe

Martin Freeman4:03

Well, I suppose in truth, I try not to do that. So I didn't actively think how can I make my Dr. Watson different from anybody else's. Because, you know, when I was growing up, it was reruns of Nigel Bruce being Dr. Watson. It was the 40s versions of Sherlock Holmes that I grew up with. So I could never be that because I wasn't, you know, 65 and a walrus. So whatever I was going to do was going to be slightly different. As everyone knows, casting is 75% of it. So if someone has entrusted me with that job, then I've just got to run with it and do as I think is right with the help of the director. And I mean, as soon as I was reading with Benedict, it was just different because he was unlike any Sherlock Holmes I'd ever seen. And you make each other, you bring different stuff out of each other.

Presenter4:46

I've read very many profile interviews with you in the run up to today. They're very enjoyable. However, each one mentions two things. And the first is how private you are. The second is how much you swear. Now I take it you've heard this show before.

Martin Freeman4:50

So today.

Martin Freeman5:00

Yeah, and I'm definitely not going to swear. Definitely not going to swear.

Presenter5:02

Of course, you're sharing your music with us today, and I imagine that the whittling process has been agony. Your first list was one of fifteen discs, which is too many.

Martin Freeman5:11

Which is too many? Well, yes, that's too many. I would have been happy with any of those. You know, I think it's about trying not to be too cool and trying to be honest, but at the same time, trying to reflect bits of your I mean, often it's young years, isn't it? I think I was very fortunate because I was genuinely exposed to music that I still love. So, yeah, as a five-year-old, I was hearing the clash and the buzzcocks and the jam. It was like, this is great, you know.

Presenter5:15

Mm-hmm.

Presenter5:34

Well, let's dive straight in with your first disc then. Tell me why you've chosen this one.

Martin Freeman5:37

Well, this was from 1977, and I would have been five turning six. I'm the youngest of five, and this would have been one of the records that I inherited from my brothers. Punk was a big thing in our house. I wasn't a punk, I was a tiny child, but there was something about this album. I think it's easily one of the best debut albums ever by anybody, and I think this is one of the best opening tracks of any debut album, is a corker.

Presenter6:20

He gon' like it for a jump out And he knows what he got to do In house, he gotta have fun with you

Presenter6:30

You're lucky lately!

Presenter6:33

The Clash and Jeannie Jones. So, Martin Freeman, let's go back to the beginning. You were born in Hampshire and, as you said, the youngest of five. Your mum, Philomena, I think she was one of fourteen, wasn't she? She was, yeah. Tell me about her.

Martin Freeman6:43

She was, yeah. Tell me about her.

Martin Freeman6:45

Um she was funny. She was

Martin Freeman6:50

Rude?

Martin Freeman6:51

Push up.

Martin Freeman6:52

Rude hair. I mean, not a rude person. We were all brought up, you know, well. Like, we were all brought up to have manners and be polite to people and to take other people into account. But she.

Speaker 16:52

Shoot time.

Martin Freeman7:02

You know, she she was quite a focus puller on her day. Was she?

Presenter7:05

Was she?

Martin Freeman7:06

What was the one?

Martin Freeman7:07

Because she was funny because she was just quick. So in a room, she would just know that the irreverent or rude or sarcastic thing to say that would either make people laugh or make them outraged or something, you know. And she enjoyed it. And she said she knew from doing a play when she was at school, you know, she was able to tap into a thing that made people look at her. And I think what I got from my mum was this funny thing of, on the one hand, definitely being a show-off.

Martin Freeman7:34

partly going, Look at me, look at me, and on the other hand going, No, we're all equal. She was a good swearer.

Martin Freeman7:40

I think I got a lot of who I am, for better and worse, from my mum. Yeah.

Presenter7:45

I think you described her in in one interview that I read as creative and fantastically liberal.

Martin Freeman7:50

Yes, she was very liberal.

Martin Freeman7:52

She was born in the thirties and she would have liked to have gone to drama school.

Martin Freeman7:57

So I think she found her sort of dream life really sort of through her kids actually. And and she was also chaotic and she was a bit balmy. One of the things I really took from her, especially as a parent, is

Martin Freeman8:10

you were never in any doubt you were loved, you know what I mean? And that was massively important. And demonstrably so, you know. We were never afraid to tell people we loved them, do you know what I mean? And and to to show it. So so I was very lucky in that, yeah.

Presenter8:23

And what about your dad, Geoffrey? How would you describe him?

Martin Freeman8:26

Well, he died when I was ten, unfortunately. Um so I sort of get I got to know him less. He'd been in the Navy as a young man and he went to art school. He was born in Hull. I associated the twin kind of loves of his life as being the sea and painting, I think, you know. My mum always described'cause they split up when I was very young.

Martin Freeman8:45

And I think obviously by the end of any marriage it's not going too fantastically well. But she said he always still had charm. He was really charming. Even if he would turn up late and in a state or whatever,'cause he he wasn't a stranger to a drink. That was probably the the triumvirate love of his life was was a was a drink. And he was little like me. All my brothers are taller than me. But yeah, dad was small. I got his small gene.

Presenter9:09

Your early family sounds lively and it sounds very kind of culturally engaged. You know, everybody in there is living in their minds and engaging with ideas.

Speaker 19:13

Uh

Martin Freeman9:14

Yeah, if you put it in there

Martin Freeman9:17

Of an idea and being able to sort of express it. You know, four boys and a girl, and I think we were all afraid of being creative. I think a big part of having a creative life is just knowing you're allowed to have one. So, even though, without getting the violin out, we didn't have a nice car or go on holidays or any of that stuff, but whatever else you did or didn't have, you knew you were just allowed. You know, there were books in the house, there was music in the house. And so, by the time I knew what I wanted to be, I knew that would be supported. Which, of course, a lot of people don't have the luck of that.

Presenter9:49

And what sort of child were you?

Martin Freeman9:50

Uh

Martin Freeman9:51

Yeah, I was the youngest of five by a fair white then Jamie, the next brother up from me, is uh six years older.

Martin Freeman9:57

And by the time I came in like my parents' marriage had pretty much broken down and I was yeah, I was ill. I had a a dodgy hip and asthma and eczema and hay fever and all so I was kind of I was in and out of hospital occasionally for various things.

Martin Freeman10:12

I w was quite not Leary like, you know, not properly Leary, but I was I had a sort of confidence, I think. I just had to, you know what I mean? Because I was little for a start. So like a lot of small people, you either well, do I fight?

Martin Freeman10:27

Probably not going to happen because I'm much smaller than everyone, or you circumnavigate other ways around it.

Presenter10:32

And you were pretty sporty as well.

Martin Freeman10:33

I was, yeah, I thought I was going to be a squash player until I was about fourteen. And I loved it until I started to not love it, you know, and it because it's a big commitment, a lot of training, a lot of travel.

Presenter10:43

Were you competitive?

Martin Freeman10:43

Will you come?

Martin Freeman10:45

I was, but I wasn't competitive enough. So, as we know, so much of it is having the killer instinct. I didn't have it. You know, it was the best of five, so I'd be two games to love up and maybe, you know, on a match point or whatever. And I would immediately be thinking, what's this other guy feeling? You know, like, I bet he's feeling really bad now. And so, so that tells me in hindsight that's much more attuned to being an actor than it is to being a champion sportsman. Yeah, I don't think John McEnroe was thinking that. I don't think Venus Williams was going, oh, poor love. You know, like you, you know, you must maim everything in your wake as a sports person. And I didn't have that. You were playing.

Presenter11:17

You are playing as part of the company.

Martin Freeman11:19

Yeah, exactly. It's not really a team sport squash, you know.

Presenter11:22

It's time for some music. Tell us about your second disc today.

Martin Freeman11:25

I remember I was in Great Ormond Street in the summer of 1980 for a hip operation. It was one of my little things wrong with me. And this was one of the records that I feel kind of changed my life, even though I was eight. I didn't have much life to change. But there were a few records on the radio at the time that I was hearing and I was just noticing certain people dressing in a certain way and certain sounds. It was like something that was mine. And it kind of, without sounding too grand about it, I think it helped set me on a path, like literally for the rest of my life, actually. And it's baggy trousers.

Martin Freeman12:07

Naughty boys in nasty schools and masters breaking all the rules Having fun and playing cools Smashing up the woodwork

Martin Freeman12:15

Teachers in the public passing and a ready rhyme Trying not to think of when the lunchtime bell will ring again Oh what fun we had, but did it really turn out bad All of us at school was hazardous rule Oh what fun we had, but at the time it seems a bad Trying reference to make a living

Martin Freeman12:34

Blood is Marston's ass And I'm not sure.

Presenter12:36

Madness and baggy trousers. Martin Freeman, you've said that Catholicism and Teutone were my twin religions as a kid.

Martin Freeman12:42

Yeah.

Presenter12:43

Plenty of drama and some cracking outfits in both.

Martin Freeman12:46

In both, yeah.

Martin Freeman12:47

Um well, I suppose Catholicism predates everything, I guess. Okay. Yeah,'cause it'cause that was just part of uh the ambience of life, I guess. Um again, I was lucky in that yeah, my mum was convent educated but she she well, she was never unquestioning, I don't think. She was never sort of um dogmatic about it. Right.

Presenter12:51

Okay.

Martin Freeman13:07

You know, there were gay people in the family, and you know, she was always a bit of a lefty. So I grew up thinking.

Martin Freeman13:13

That Catholics and Catholicism were always on the right side. I mean, if you are a liberal left, you're always on the right side, you know. And so I always went to Catholic schools and.

Presenter13:21

Were you an altar boy?

Martin Freeman13:22

Yeah, I was, absolutely, yeah, I was an alter boy at times, but I was always naughty and I was always a smart ass. I enjoyed all of it. For me, talk about religion always gets boring. Talk about anything is boring when it's black and white and when it's just didactic and there's no grey. Because I think everything's grey. Politics, every single thing is grey. But there are things about faith and religion that I still like. Now, clearly, there are things that happen in the church and in every religion that I think, of course I'm not signed up to that. But there's something about it, and maybe it's just my childhood, and maybe it's my connection with my mum, I don't know. There's something about it that I'm not prepared to jettison.

Presenter13:59

And what did you like about it as a kid? Because there's a lot going on there, isn't there? There's the sort of structure and the rhythm and also the drama, you know?

Martin Freeman14:05

No.

Martin Freeman14:06

Highly theatrical. I mean, mass is a highly theatrical event. I mean, obviously, there are entertainers and creative people from every religion and none. But yeah, it's not surprising that a lot of them are calculated because, come on, you've got frocks, you've got music, you've got rehearsal, incense, choreography, you've got stuff to remember, you've got lines, you're a bit part player, or you're the star. You know, if you're the priest, you're the star. It's pretty theatrical, and I love that.

Presenter14:07

Yeah.

Speaker 114:20

Rehearsal

Presenter14:32

And what about two-tone? So that was, you know, religion's the grey stuff. Two-tone, very much monochrome. Where did that come in?

Martin Freeman14:39

Well again, like that when I was about eight or nine, you know, hearing records like, you know, like Baggy Trousers and The Select there on my radio and hearing the specials and hearing bad manners, hearing Lip Up Fatty was amazing for me, you know. Bust the Blood Vessel, he was l almost literally a cartoon.

Presenter14:52

Perfect for a little

Martin Freeman14:53

Perfect. It was something very direct about it. And again, I was like one of millions of kids in Britain who felt like it was speaking to me.

Presenter15:01

And what was it like for you being the youngest of five? What was your role in the family?

Martin Freeman15:06

Um

Martin Freeman15:07

I don't know. See, I still feel my role is to be the youngest. I still feel, you know, everything I say they will have heard. Do you know what I mean? I still kind of feel that. Have I got anything interesting to say? Because, you know, you've probably done it, you know. Um, I don't know, I was funny. I wasn't certainly wasn't the only funny one. I think my family's quite funny.

Martin Freeman15:24

But I th I think I was I was always quite good at that. And I wasn't the only performer either, you know. I've got musicians in the family and of course that's what I would have wanted to do. You know, if I'd had the talent and the wherewithal to do that, I'd much rather be a songwriter than than anything else, but I I can't, I don't do it.

Presenter15:38

It's an interesting thing to join a big family when it's already in full flow.

Martin Freeman15:43

Yeah, and presumably they had I guess they'd probably thought it was over by the time I came along. You know, I came along in seventy one and it was like, Well, what's this now? you know. So there wasn't much more of the marriage left when I came along actually, you know.

Presenter15:48

But a

Martin Freeman15:54

So yeah, I think they had their own rhythm probably. I don't know what my role was. I think to be small and cheeky and a bit lively. But then, as I say, it's not like I went into a family of sleepy accountants. This were quite a lively family already. None of us in my family are wallflowers.

Presenter16:11

Let's go with the music. This is your third disc today. Why have you chosen it?

Martin Freeman16:15

Shortly, I guess after I got into Two Tone and Ska, the logical thing for me to do then was just to hear other stuff and just go digging and see where this road takes you down. And of course, an obvious road that you get to if you're into Two Tone is Jamaican Ska and then Reggae a bit after that. And I went mad on Bob Marley and the Whalers. Like the first album that I actually bought with my own money from a shop, one I spent $4.99 on was a Bob Marley and the Whalers album. And then later I heard this through my sister Laura because she had the album Natty Dread and this is the title track from it. It's just stunning. Dread, Natty Dreadna.

Martin Freeman16:57

Red light thumb upon the high

Martin Freeman17:02

Not just trade locking up all

Martin Freeman17:08

I drank like gonga bunga

Martin Freeman17:12

Feel around get your culture

Martin Freeman17:17

I can

Martin Freeman17:19

And don't stand there on just time, huh?

Presenter17:24

Bob Marley and the Whalers and Natty Dredd. Martin Freeman, tell me then about school. What sort of student were you?

Martin Freeman17:31

Not a great student. I was easily distracted. I was lazy. I was unfocused. I liked English. I liked art. I liked RE. Anything that I thought was about opinion. But I did very badly at school. I only got three GCSEs at C and above, which disappointed even me. I thought I'd get art, didn't get art, thought I'd get history, didn't get that. I got English language and literature and RE. It's pretty bad. But I was distracted and I was a smartass and I, like a lot of teenagers, I thought I knew everything and I was going to tell people that I knew everything.

Presenter18:05

What were you distracted by?

Martin Freeman18:06

Uh, other kids, just voices in my head, just various thi you know, like you know, it's just more fun to be naughty. There's no way round that. Being naughty is fun.

Presenter18:17

So you acted out a bit. What about the other kind of acting? Did you do any theatre at school?

Martin Freeman18:22

The first acting that I remember doing was actually fittingly for a Catholic school. We did a musical. We had a really good music teacher called Chris O'Hara and he really encouraged me because I was quite a good percussionist. And I was obviously musical. And he did a production of a thing called the Goliath Jazz about David and Goliath, about a sort of very 70s rock opera kind of musical about David and Goliath. And I, surprisingly, was David, given that I was about three foot tall. And I did it, and I was quite good at it. I remember my mum saying, because she came to see it, and she said another mum leant over to her and said, you know, he's got to do this. He should be doing this. But it wasn't until I was 15 that I joined a youth theatre.

Presenter19:01

Yeah, you describe that as like coming home.

Martin Freeman19:04

Again, after a few years of thinking I was going to be a sportsman, it was much more my speed. It was much more my speed than schlepping round the country to get knocked out in the third round of some squash tournament. And here was a place. You'd rehearse plays and do drama games and

Martin Freeman19:20

You know, and clearly you were gonna fancy people and it was like it was great.

Presenter19:24

And it sounds like it brought quite a lot of colour to your life, you know.

Martin Freeman19:27

Yeah.

Presenter19:27

Foreign travel

Martin Freeman19:28

Totally, absolutely. Yeah, the first time I ever got on a plane was to go to Berlin in nineteen eighty seven. We you know, we went to East Berlin. A couple of years later went to the Soviet Union. I I first fell in love, sort of big time I had my heart broken was there. And it and it gave me it was while I was at Youth Theatre that I had

Martin Freeman19:46

the confidence to think I could do it.

Presenter19:49

Do you remember the moment that you first thought that?

Martin Freeman19:52

I did a play called The Roses of Eam.

Martin Freeman19:55

Which is based on a true story about a village in Derbyshire when the plague happened, the famous plague.

Presenter19:59

The bubonic one.

Martin Freeman20:00

Yeah, the the old bubo, yeah.

Presenter20:01

Dubai

Martin Freeman20:01

The greatest plague, and they shut the village down so the plague couldn't leave. It was a very sort of selfless act, and of course, a lot of the village got wiped out. And I played the village idiot, he was called The Bedlam. And I remember my sister Laura had just had my niece Abby, and I remember consciously trying to use this baby as help for what I was doing, just characteristics of a baby with not much in her head yet.

Martin Freeman20:27

And it was sort of all right. And it was reviewed in the local papers and all that. It's like, you know, this it's a really good performance. And it was very gratifying from an ego point of view. So I th I thought I've got a shot at at getting away with having a life, maybe, where I'm

Martin Freeman20:41

doing something I enjoy and I would have been j just seventeen when that happened.

Presenter20:46

And what about the other pillars?

Martin Freeman20:46

As of teenage

Presenter20:47

Slightly

Martin Freeman20:47

Music and fashion. I was a little mod, you know. Sort of versions of how I've been ever since, really. And getting into jazz and funk and all that sort of stuff. I couldn't go and buy loads of records, couldn't afford it. Couldn't go and buy loads of clothes, couldn't afford that. But I was definitely aware of what I wanted to look like. So a lot of trips to Oxfam for records and clothes. And if you are cursed with the thing of being obsessed with pop music from a young age, it does not leave you, I don't think. So you're always looking at what people are wearing, and you're always, you know, trying to pick up on that record or whatever. And it keeps you sort of in a way in a state of arrested development. You know what I mean? Because as other people start to grow up and get proper jobs, and also being an actor keeps you slightly in that state. Because you are basically doing what you would do for free and what children do naturally. You know, if you let them be and if they're quite happy, they play and they act. They tit around. And that's sort of a version of what I do. I don't know if I would give myself slightly more credit than just doing that. But it's basically what I'm doing. And so it still leaves me space in my head to go, oh, that's a lovely pair of loafers. You know, whereas where I should be thinking about, have I paid the water bill? I'm still thinking about.

Presenter21:47

Yeah.

Speaker 121:48

You know what

Presenter21:52

Where's

Martin Freeman21:52

Yeah.

Presenter21:52

Uh

Martin Freeman21:52

Yeah. Uh Uh And and that has actually, if anything, got worse.

Presenter21:53

It from and that is

Presenter21:56

We might come to Doctor Watson's jackets later, because honestly, my other half was making a list. Every episode it was a key part of the viewing practice. I love that. Yeah, the viewing practice.

Martin Freeman21:58

Yeah.

Martin Freeman22:00

Every episode it was a key part of the viewing.

Martin Freeman22:05

It's my lucky.

Presenter22:06

It's time to go to the music though. Tell me about your next track today.

Martin Freeman22:09

The next one is from a film that I saw when I was 14, a little while before I joined Youth Theatre. But by the time I joined Youth Theatre, I was sort of obsessed with this film and it kind of opened my horizons a little bit to musicals, I guess. I nearly chose something from Oliver today, because I absolutely adore Oliver like a family member, right? But this just pipped it. I think it's the best musical ever, and I certainly think it's the best filmed musical ever, by a sort of embarrassingly long way, in my opinion. And I didn't know what track to choose from it, so I just chose something that's got great fab music in it and fantastic choreography. It's from Westside Story, and it's the Dance at the Gym.

Presenter23:28

Dance at the Gym from the original film soundtrack of Leonard Bernstein's Westside Story, performed by the Westside Story Orchestra, conducted by John Greene. Martin Freeman, after a year spent working as kitchen porter, you've secured a place at the Central School of Speech and Drama in London. What were your hopes?

Martin Freeman23:44

The time.

Martin Freeman23:46

I mean, my main hope was just to become a better actor. I really was optimistic about that.

Martin Freeman23:52

and to be among just other young actors of my generation who were exciting and who would push me and all of that. And and that and that did happen. I I was definitely better at the end of it than I was when I started.

Presenter24:03

It was interesting that you left in your third year, though, to go and work in uh the national theatre. So it sound seems like quite a brave

Martin Freeman24:07

Yeah, sure.

Martin Freeman24:08

Does that seem like

Presenter24:10

Choice

Martin Freeman24:11

No, not at all. Because if someone says to you, Do you want to come work at the National Theatre? You don't go, let me get back to you. And I left to go and work with Matthew Watches and Jonathan Kent at the National Theatre. And I was doing very little at the National. Do you know what I mean? I was basically set dressing, you know, what they call a spear carrier, really. But you were spear carrying in the National Theatre, working with, you know, Michael Gambon and Simon Russell Beale and Diana Rigg, and, you know, like proper people who you're going to go, wow, that's exciting. I was, you know, walking over the river every day, just delighted, just thinking I was to a certain degree living the dream, even though I was hardly kind of flexing a lot of acting muscles. I was in the building. Do you know what I mean? I was actually making the rent. And I realized as soon as I got there that I had made a good career choice. I just thought, I'd love this. I just love it.

Presenter24:15

Um

Presenter24:59

And you did a lot of theatre after that. How did you come to move into T V work?

Martin Freeman25:01

How did you

Martin Freeman25:03

As every actor does, you just go for auditions for things that you do get or you don't get.

Martin Freeman25:08

Then I started auditioning for, you know, things like the Bill, which obviously everybody auditioned for at that time in the mid nineties. Um and that was the first T V job I got a bill and uh

Presenter25:17

Who did you who were you in the bill?

Martin Freeman25:18

I was a man called Craig Parnell.

Presenter25:21

Funny you remember these. After that you can still remember Craig Park.

Martin Freeman25:23

Remember Craig Parnell? Because I remember him having to say his name. Who are you, son? Craig Parnell.

Martin Freeman25:28

Thank you very much. You can see why I got the part. And I was probably quite bad in it, but it was exciting. It's the sort of thing when you're first on tele.

Presenter25:30

Yeah, it's great, by the way. Thank you very much.

Speaker 125:31

Is it

Speaker 125:32

Yeah.

Martin Freeman25:39

I was living in Bethnal Green at the time, and

Martin Freeman25:42

I remember doing that and I I did a guest lead on Casualty a couple of years later. You sort of in your mind again, because there were at the most five channels there. So it was a fair chance that everyone would have seen or a lot of people would have seen the show you were on last night. You allow yourself the delusion of walking down the Hackney Road thinking

Martin Freeman25:59

Yeah, I think everyone's probably looking at me now, you know, because of Craig Parnell last night. And of course, they're not, you know. But for a minute, you can sort of think, oh god, I've sort of made it. Because I think whatever making it means, it's all incremental. That's why it never feels like you've made it. Because in a way, I felt like I'd made it when I got into drama school in 1992. And when I'd got that call, I was like, I've made it. And then the national, and then of the first bit of Telia. So when people understandably talk about, you know, your breakthrough, and of course, I do have breakthroughs, of course, but you kind of think.

Martin Freeman26:31

There are all lots of little ones, you know. And the bill would probably in my head at the time would have been a little breakthrough.

Presenter26:37

So from Craig Parnell to uh Tim from the office, tell me about auditioning for that part. Because you weren't supposed to be playing Tim.

Martin Freeman26:40

I'll be

Martin Freeman26:43

No, I wasn't. I auditioned for Gareth, which was the part Mackenzie Crook eventually played. In my audition was Asher Taller, the producer, and Steve Merchant, the co-creator. And I'd already worked with Ricky Gervais before, he had written on a sketch show I'd done called Bruiser, which had people like Olivia Coleman and Mitchell and Webb and Matt Holness in it. And so I'd met Ricky, thought he was hilarious, and also hilarious in a way that I'd never met anyone else in Showbiz be hilarious. You met people in the playground who were hilarious like that, but not anyone at the BBC who was funny in that particular way. But I remember us talking during Bruiser, and I think he thought I was quite good, and you know, and that was in a good cast of people.

Martin Freeman27:24

And I'd read for Gareth, and it does sound like such a sort of showbiz story, but I as as I was leaving the room I'd opened the door and then I th either I can't remember whether it was either Steve Steve Merchant or Ash said, Should we get Martin to read for Tim? Maybe that's going to be a better fit. And so I thought, Okay, yeah. And so I so I read for Tim and thank God that went all right.

Martin Freeman27:43

Yeah.

Martin Freeman27:44

And the rest is history. But yeah, obviously that made a massive difference to my life during that show.

Presenter27:50

Alright, well, we'll talk more about that after the next track. It's your fifth disc today. Why have you chosen it?

Martin Freeman27:52

Yeah.

Presenter27:55

Uh

Martin Freeman27:55

Because there's no way you can't have the Beatles in it. For me, I love a lot of music, like you do, Lauren. But I just can't think of a better band. So it would just be rude not to have them. And out of all the scores and scores of songs that I could have chosen, this one still to me sounds fresh as a days. It came out in early 67. It still, to me, slightly sounds like the future. And it's by the best band that's ever lived, and it's Strawberry Field Forever.

Martin Freeman28:21

Let me take you down, cause I'm going to strawberry

Speaker 228:32

Uh

Speaker 128:33

Uh

Speaker 228:33

Nothing is real.

Martin Freeman28:36

Uh Yeah.

Speaker 228:36

Nothing to get hung up on

Martin Freeman28:40

Strawberry feels forever

Martin Freeman28:45

Living is easy with eyes closed.

Presenter28:51

Misunderstand

Martin Freeman28:52

And BAY

Presenter28:52

All you see

Presenter28:56

The Beatles and Strawberry Fields Forever. So Martin Freeman, the Office would go on to become Britain's most successful T V series in a decade, the first British sitcom to win a Golden Globe. What was that success like for you at the time?

Martin Freeman29:10

The success was amazing because it was onto the back of a show that I had loved.

Martin Freeman29:15

You know, so that was it was a double whammy of having really, really enjoyed doing the show and been very proud of it myself and laughed probably more than I've ever laughed since or before on any job. But to have it then sort of validated by so many people who we respected as well was amazing. For a sort of three years, we just sort of went to award shows and cleaned up everywhere. You know, it's kind of it was weird because it kind of felt like for a period we were very loved. It's nice.

Presenter29:46

In twenty ten you got the part of John Watson in Sherlock. How did your audition for that show go?

Martin Freeman29:52

Well the first one

Martin Freeman29:54

didn't go so well. I auditioned on my own. And I've I've read s since, or someone's told me since, that I had said.

Martin Freeman30:02

That I just got my wallet nicked or something on the way.

Martin Freeman30:05

And I can't remember actually having my wallet nick, but um

Martin Freeman30:09

I don't think I was in a great mood for whatever reason.

Presenter30:11

Yeah, I've got a quote here. They thought I was a moody prick.

Martin Freeman30:12

Him.

Martin Freeman30:14

Yes. I think they probably did. And I didn't quite know they'd thought that until a couple of weeks later, Michael, my agent, rang me. We were talking about something else. I said, oh, do you know what's happening with Shelly?'Cause I'm still waiting to hear.

Martin Freeman30:27

And he said, Well yeah, to be honest, mate, they didn't really feel you were that up for it. They didn't get a good vibe from you that you really cared that much about it and I said, Oh my god, no, I really do care, because I'd read the first episode and I thought it was brilliant.

Martin Freeman30:39

So I said, Well, can you please tell them I really do care? And if they want me to read again, I'll read again, you know? And it was a good lesson that you know, as I said earlier, I'm not massively into begging to be liked, but sometimes it can go too far the other way if people think, Oh, he doesn't care. Fair enough, we'll just go to someone else. And I really wanted it. So I read again, I went in with Benedict. And when we read, it was really, it was easy. I think whatever our natural rhythms are kind of clicked in with each other.

Speaker 130:44

You know.

Presenter31:06

I mean like chemistry is an interesting phenomenon.

Martin Freeman31:08

Yeah, it is, yeah.

Presenter31:09

Isn't it? How rare is it that you have that experience, that it just works straight away?

Martin Freeman31:14

I think fairly rare, yeah, and certainly even rarer for it to be picked up in the sort of public in that way. Probably nothing I've done, maybe nothing I ever will do, has resonated with certain parts of the world's population the same way Sherlock has. It just kind of hit a lot of buttons for people. And it's overwhelming at first. You know, when it first happens.

Martin Freeman31:36

You're just delighted again because similarly to The Office, it was a show that I was immensely proud of.

Presenter31:41

It's quite intense though, I mean

Martin Freeman31:42

Yeah, I mean what you mean that reaction can be quite intense. Definitely yeah that the reaction can be quite intense.

Presenter31:45

Definitely.

Martin Freeman31:48

You know, my job is very, very different from being a pop star, obviously. But it's I liken it to a pop group because, you know, that's the thing that I got most passionate about. Where you'd throw in all your cards with this band, whatever, or with this singer. And that's what a lot of people did with Sherlock, which, on the one hand, is really, really gratifying. And on the other hand, there's a lot to live up to. You know what I mean? Because you cannot live up to it. You just can't. So by the time we filmed the last ones, there were some fans who were so. Adamant. They knew that John and Sherlock were gay. They knew it. And they knew that Stephen and Mark were going to write an episode where we, you know, held hands off into the sunset together. And so when that didn't happen, there was, you know, there was a chunk of people going, this is betrayal. You know, Dylan going electric or whatever. I think some people.

Martin Freeman32:34

And put this way, they invest a lot in it. And

Martin Freeman32:37

Up to a certain point, that's delightful. Beyond a certain point, it's more challenging.

Presenter32:44

Then how did you cope with the challenge?

Martin Freeman32:46

as I always do, which is going home and playing records. That's what I always do. And you know, keeping your head down and doing the things that you can trust in. Yeah. You know, which is being a dad and, you know, being normal, doing stuff that is not to do with

Martin Freeman33:00

Your job.

Presenter33:01

You were also working on screen with your then partner Amanda Appington. What was it like working together? Because you met on set, I think.

Martin Freeman33:05

And what was the other

Martin Freeman33:07

We met on a set in two thousand. We met on a s a Channel four drama called Men Only and we clicked immediately. We just hit it off. We went on a date a day or two later and we were together for sixteen years. So she was

Martin Freeman33:21

And remains one of my favorite actors. I think she's a fantastic actor. I always knew I wasn't the best actor in my house, you know what I mean? So I yeah, nothing pleases me more than her success over the last sort of seven or eight years.

Presenter33:33

What was it like working together on Sherlock?

Martin Freeman33:35

Awful. That was good. It was good. Um.

Martin Freeman33:41

I really love working with her. You know, by the time of the last

Martin Freeman33:45

Sherlock that we've done, we were sort of in the midst of splitting up. So that wasn't that much fun. But when we weren't in that midst, it was great. You know, I l I still laugh a lot with Amanda. You know, she's a very, very funny woman.

Presenter33:56

And as I've got you in this room, on behalf of the Internet, I have to ask, do you think there will be more Sherlocks?

Martin Freeman34:02

I honestly I don't know.

Martin Freeman34:04

Everyone knows,'cause it's been well documented that

Martin Freeman34:08

It's a big logistical thing to get us all together. I think we all love the show. We all are really proud of the show. But, you know, listen, I didn't write the last script and the last of that series definitely felt like a pause. I can't speak for anybody else, but I think we're all sort of of the opinion that if it's right, we'll do it. You know, which sounds like a sort of hedgy thing to say, but it's just it's true. And what I learned from the office, it's quite good to not go on forever. Do you know what I mean?

Presenter34:36

It's time to hear your next track. Why have you chosen this one?

Martin Freeman34:40

I was walking with Amanda around um St Albans Cathedral, and I was with my mum and step dad James, and the four of us were just walking around the grounds, and we heard that from inside the cathedral there's beautiful music coming, and um we popped our heads in the door,

Martin Freeman34:56

And it was a choir rehearsing. And we sat down in a pew because we thought, we're getting some free music. It's beautiful. And it was so beautiful. And it was like one of those moments that was really that I never forget. Because when you do hear something pure and human and kind of timeless and something that's lasted a couple of hundred years, there is something in that. And when you're hearing it in a beautiful because St Albans Cathedral, if you haven't been, is absolutely stunning place. It felt like a real, like a little private gift we were getting. And it's Henry Purcell.

Martin Freeman35:26

When I am laid in earth.

Speaker 235:44

I was queen.

Presenter36:37

When I Am Laid in Earth from Henry Purcell's Dido and Aeneas, sung by Lynn Dawson with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, conducted by René Jakobs. So Martin, as you mentioned, you and your former partner Amanda Abington announced a very amicable separation after sixteen years together a while ago. How have you adjusted to co-parenting?

Martin Freeman36:59

Um pretty well, really. I think uh it's

Martin Freeman37:03

It's true what people have always said, as long as your kids know'cause yeah, I I my parents were divorced, but I knew I was loved. You know, when I was never thinking me and Amanda were going to split up, I always knew that people who split up and can be civil

Martin Freeman37:16

And do it for the kids, it's it's all right. I didn't only want to be civil for the children, I wanted to be civil for us. Because when you've loved someone for that long and they've been such an integral part of your life, um, what, that's supposed to just not count now? I just that just didn't make sense to me. So, yeah, w we do get on well, and I think the kids see us getting on well, and that's a a massive thing. They're just loved by the same two people in different geography now.

Presenter37:42

Your new project, Breeders, which is going out in twenty twenty, is all about parenting and being a dad. What is it that you wanted to say about the subject?

Martin Freeman37:51

I developed it with Simon Blackwell and Chris Addison.

Presenter37:55

Oh, Pete Show and Reach.

Martin Freeman37:56

Yes, yeah. No slouches themselves. And um

Martin Freeman38:00

The point of it was sort of.

Martin Freeman38:03

To let parents out of a jail that they think they're in if if if they've ever sworn at their kids or ever just wanted to throw everyone in their family out of the nearest window, you know. All the things that I felt you couldn't say at nice North London dinner parties or whatever, and or admit to.

Martin Freeman38:20

It's not all that, but the genesis of it was: not only is that all right to have felt that, but it's if you're being honest, it's sort of obligatory. At some point, you will have.

Martin Freeman38:29

Because how could you not? I thought I was a really nice person until the age of 34 when I thought, oh no, you're quite spoiled and quite impatient. So, yeah, I mean, one of my children's mantras to me now, you know, they're 10 and 13, is, Daddy, be patient. Just be patient. I'm like, yeah, I know. And, you know, the difference between not being a parent and being a parent is about 47 light years. There's no manual for it, and you are not prepared for how viscerally challenging it is. I'd never felt such rage in my life as when I became a parent. Now, also, of course, I'd never felt such love. The interesting thing for men, I think in the last generation, is we are, a lot of us, not everyone, but a lot of us are trying to parent in a way for which we have had no example at all.

Martin Freeman39:16

There's been a more steady example of what it is to be a mother, generally speaking. Now, in the last generation, we're trying to catch up with that with no experience, with no blueprint for that at all. So, guess what? It's going to be messed up a lot of the time, you know. And I think if we're not messing it up, we're sort of lying about it a lot of the time. I knew it in my head, this will be hard and it'll be wonderful. But what I wasn't prepared for was my own shortcomings because they'd never been tested like that. And.

Martin Freeman39:42

Listen, we're making a comedy programme, we're not making a public s health sort of broadcast.

Martin Freeman39:47

But I do think it's useful to be able to tell people, men and women, yeah, you know how you you want to and sometimes do occasionally shout at your children, yeah, of course we know it's not great, but what do you think people were doing fifty years ago? Like what do you

Presenter40:01

Something your parents were doing. And what was it like thinking about, you know, yourself as a father and then presumably by extension thinking about your own dad, your stepdad, the dynamics in your family?

Martin Freeman40:10

Yeah.

Martin Freeman40:11

Well, yeah. I mean, um, Chris Simon and I, you know, it was like a men's self help group and it was that. And we we all had fairly not the same experiences, but we had similar experiences. I look back on things that now happen and you think, there's just no way. There's no way you would do that now. That were totally normal thirty five years ago.

Speaker 140:29

Before pleasing.

Martin Freeman40:30

Well, having a very, very asthmatic child, but no one would even think about stopping smoking in front of them. Do you know what I mean? Like, hmm.

Martin Freeman40:37

What is this then? It's just weird. Is asthma's not getting any better? You know what I mean?

Presenter40:41

And what kind of parent are you?

Martin Freeman40:43

Uh, a work in progress. I try my best. I think I'm very, very demonstrably loving. We're a very, very tactile kissy huggy family. There's a lot of telling each other we love each other.

Martin Freeman40:57

Um, and a lot of shouting as well. Yeah.

Presenter41:00

Let's have some more music. This is your seventh disc today. Tell me about this one.

Martin Freeman41:04

This is the Star Council and they were a very very big band for me growing up. More than the jam actually I think the highs of the Star Council are so beautiful and it opened up my ears to different things, it opened up my ears to different sounds and different influences and things. And I think as a sort of top 10 pop band in the 1980s, they were smuggling a lot of lyrics in to the top 10. They really were. Because it was with, you know, great melodies, really, really musical. catchy stuff that was about you know bringing down the thatcher government and again i i'm not necessarily that animal now i'm i'm not massively party political now i am a bit but i was 13 when it came out and um for years i thought this is what i'm gonna have at my funeral because it just it hit me very very hard

Martin Freeman41:46

I know we've always been taught to rely upon rules and authority But you never know until you try how fears just might be together so strongly

Speaker 142:03

Uh

Martin Freeman42:03

I am gonna try to

Speaker 142:05

Make this flash

Speaker 142:06

A special lives now in the third This can't change just a while

Martin Freeman42:11

I told my bad

Martin Freeman42:13

Epic

Presenter42:15

The Style Council and Walls Come Tumbling Down. Martin Freeman, we're about to cast you away. How do you greet the prospect of total solitude on our desert island?

Martin Freeman42:24

Not great, because I I like knowing people are around. I do like people. Or I th I do in theory. Is practice different? Yeah, of course it is. But there are a lot of people I do like, but um a lot of you know, a lot of life is quite annoying. Without trying to sound like a c comedy stand up grumpy old man. So in that sense, having a bit of peace would be good.

Martin Freeman42:44

But um never hearing anyone else's voice would be horrendous. Awful. Yeah, I don't I don't look forward to that.

Presenter42:50

Tell me a little bit about your attitude to fame, because you seem to have quite a healthy disregard for it, and I find that really interesting. Where do you think that comes from?

Martin Freeman42:57

I don't know. I mean, I guess it would come from upbringing, I suppose. It might come from partly being the youngest of five and thinking. I'm always aware, don't get too past your station. I'm always thinking that. I don't know whether I've always succeeded in it, but that is honestly a low-level hum all my life. Do you know what I mean? Like.

Martin Freeman43:18

Yeah, all my life, really. I think it's that, and also just seeing it is so unattractive when you see other people fall for it. Of course, there are things to be enjoyed about fame, of course, there are, you know, and you'd be, I think, silly. And I have been silly at some points just not to enjoy it. I do have that is a problem for me sometimes. I forget I'm allowed to enjoy stuff like that. Or I'm quite spartan like that. I'm a bit monkish sometimes with that. It's probably not because I'm a saintly person, it's just because I don't want to look rubbish, you know.

Presenter43:48

But you're missing out potentially on some really nice dinners.

Martin Freeman43:51

Potentially, potentially. But I I I'm never happier than when I'm either at my house or someone else's house who I know and love and trust. That's when I feel really, really safe. And I think I've always felt way before I was famous, I think I've I felt that slightly about Being out, and that just sort of got compounded by being well known, because then you know people, especially in this day and age, where people can just take pictures of you and do take pictures of you and record you and all that. It's intrusive, and I don't like it. I can just about bear it for me. I can't bear it for my kids, you know. I woke up this morning to someone had papped me and the kids in my road, pretty much. It's just it's just annoying. I don't know.

Martin Freeman44:30

What is there possibly to enjoy about that?

Martin Freeman44:34

And why would you open your life up to it by sort of bringing your kids into the public eye before they're ready? I d I personally don't get it at all.'Cause we all know once you've brought it out of the box, you can't put it back in.

Presenter44:45

And how are you about getting older? Because we were talking earlier during one of the tracks about the fact that you always kind of tally yourself against the musicians that you admire, maybe more than actors.

Martin Freeman44:54

That you admire

Martin Freeman44:58

I'm alright with it. As everyone says, you know, you're a bit horrified sometimes when you look in the mirror and think, oh, wow, this is what we're doing now. We've come to this. And then other days you feel 17, you know, because of because of the spirit that's in you. I'm in a very, very lucky position that I've still got a lot of things to be grateful for, and there's a lot of things going well for me now.

Martin Freeman45:18

But let's be honest, I mean being twenty-four is pretty good, don't you think?

Presenter45:22

Yeah.

Presenter45:24

Time for your last disc, Martin Freeman. Tell me about this one.

Martin Freeman45:27

When I went to drama school I was

Martin Freeman45:29

I was so obsessed with Stevie Wonder. I was kind of a little Stevie evangelist for a lot of people. I'd always do people's tapes and you know, mixtapes and stuff and introduce people to different music. And a lot of it was Stevie Wonder at the time. He kind of produced a body of work between let's say really 72 to 76, 77, that I think for the 70s does a similar thing to what the Beatles did in the 60s in terms of pushing boundaries in terms of him just functioning at full power as a creative force. I could have chosen so many things, but yeah, this is from Innovisions from 1973, when he was 23.

Martin Freeman46:01

Its wonderful song is Jesus Children of America.

Martin Freeman46:05

Open open

Speaker 146:06

Hello Jesus, Jesus children, Jesus loves you, Jesus.

Martin Freeman46:13

Children Hello children, Jesus loved you of a man of heart.

Martin Freeman46:25

Are you hearing what you say? Are you feeling what you're praying? Are you healing, pain, feeling what you say inside?

Presenter46:43

Stevie Wonder and Jesus Children of America. Martin Freeman, the time has come then for me to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Martin Freeman46:51

Thank you. I know both off by heart, of course.

Presenter46:53

Well, naturally. You can also take a book of your own choosing. What would you like?

Martin Freeman46:54

Yeah.

Martin Freeman46:58

I would take, and this is a tough one as well, but just for the sheer effect it had on me when I first read it, I'm going to take Animal Farm by George Orwell. So I read it when I was 11 and it had a similar sort of thing to Two-Tone, I think. It struck me like a lightning bolt and it got me interested, even more interested in history, the history of the Left, I suppose. I'd read it every few years and I've never read anything that hit me like that, ever. What about your luxury item? Tea-making facilities, because and I'm aware how clichéd and English that sounds, but it's true, I like tea.

Martin Freeman47:28

And tea is way more than a drink. It has symbolic and emotional purposes. There was a reason that in the war people would just think everything's going to be all right with a cup of tea. I still sort of think that. It's it's a comforting thing, putting the kettle on.

Presenter47:42

Well, we're not supposed to be too practical, but I suppose if you have a cultural context with which you're bringing this request to me, I could give you solar powered tea making facilities to explore the kind of cultural ritual

Martin Freeman47:46

Yeah.

Martin Freeman47:48

I could get

Martin Freeman47:51

Okay.

Martin Freeman47:53

Yeah.

Presenter47:53

Tool.

Martin Freeman47:54

Uh

Presenter47:54

Uh

Martin Freeman47:54

Well, it's I think it's an inherent part of my Englishness. Let's have that.

Presenter47:58

Alright, that'll do. And finally, I know this might be very difficult. If you could only keep one of these discs, which would it be?

Martin Freeman48:05

Bliney, I think I'd avoided this question in my head.

Martin Freeman48:09

Um, can I just say, Lauren, you know this is impossible, don't you? Yeah. Fine.

Presenter48:12

Yeah.

Speaker 148:12

Uh

Martin Freeman48:13

Listeners, you know this is impossible. Okay, but today, as you're asking me today, and it could be different next Tuesday.

Speaker 148:17

I think

Speaker 148:18

Right.

Martin Freeman48:19

I'm going to say the Beatles just because I can't think of anyone better. That's all. It's one of the greatest records of the last century by the, I think, the primary creative force of the century, I think.

Presenter48:32

Well then you can have it. Thanks. Martin Freeman, thank you so much for sharing your Desert Island discs with us.

Martin Freeman48:37

Thank you, Lauren.

Presenter48:48

As we leave Martin making a brew, let me bring you another gem from the Desert Island Disc's back catalogue. Of course, Martin starred in the office with Ricky Gervais and in 2007, Kirsty talked to him about his

Speaker 248:59

His sense of humour. Tell me then, Ricky, your face, was there a sort of family sense of humour? I mean, I I know you didn't want to overplay the idea of sort of poverty and we didn't have much, but one of the things that can bind working class families together especially is a lot of laughs.

Martin Freeman49:12

That was the most important thing. Outside having a a job, you know, you had to have a job. Doesn't matter what you earned, but you had to have a job. If you had a job, you were allowed to have a laugh. That was what it was all about.

Speaker 249:24

Was there a sense of competitiveness in the humour? I mean, did you always did did somebody always want to be the one who got the last line in?

Martin Freeman49:29

Yeah, but you respected if you had a go. If you crumbled, you'd lost. And if you came back with a good one, it could be devastating, but they'd have to laugh. You know, it was an engagement and you you'd you'd shake hands afterwards and go good one.

Speaker 249:43

Who set the tone for that? Was it your father?

Martin Freeman49:45

No, my father was very dry. Um he said, you know, one thing a day. But I suppose my uh my next oldest brother, Bob, was uh the one that instigated most things. He was just uh he just said funny things, you know, in uh There's Nowhere He Wouldn't Go.

Speaker 250:00

What about boundaries? Because by between people who know each other very well, of course, you can go where people don't normally go, people you don't know as well. You know, you can just take the humour to places that might be considered a bit risky.

Martin Freeman50:11

Well when my mum died we were organising the the funeral and my the vicar said to my brother, So tell me about your mother, what was she like? And my brother, just winding up, the vicar said, She was a keen racist. And the vicar said, What, I can't say that. He went, oh, okay, then she liked gardening. And then when we were at the funeral, so there's

Martin Freeman50:43

Me, my brother Bob, my sister Marsha, and our oldest brother, Larry, who's come down from Scotland. But my brother has played a trick on him as well, because the vicar suddenly goes, Ava leaves behind four loving children, Ricky, Bob, Marcia and Barry. And Larry just turns round and looks round and we're crying with laughter. And the Vicar thinks we're crazy, that we're just we're there crying and crying with laughter.

Speaker 150:48

Yeah.

Speaker 251:11

But apart from I mean, there is a a question about whether or not, of course, we use humour as a reflex to protect us from things and we are more than a funeral are you going to feel the pain of dying. But but also, I mean

Speaker 151:21

Of course.

Speaker 251:24

For me, I find those very funny stories. For a lot of people, though, there, you've strayed into the bounds of absolute tastelessness and disrespect.

Martin Freeman51:30

Um but definitely not. But absolutely I definitely not be

Speaker 251:34

Definitely not because everybody is participating in

Martin Freeman51:37

And uh everyone, you know, knew what they thought of mum and um we were worried about what the vicar thought. I remember uh I think it was uh at my dad's funeral where we're

Speaker 251:43

Yeah.

Martin Freeman51:47

We're mucking around and laughing and bowled back to go over to the Vicar and say sorry about that He said uh you know he was he was eighty three. If he was fifty, there'd have been less laughter. And that that sums it up. You know, he'd had a good life and it was exactly what they would have wanted, I think.

Speaker 252:01

The stuff that you were saying about your mu mother's funeral though, there's very much a sense i i in which that reflects the idea that there is nowhere you won't go for love. I mean, is that is that for you also a professional dictum that wherever you think you will make people smile, that is where you're willing to travel for a good laugh.

Martin Freeman52:16

Well um yes, but you've got to be you know, I wouldn't do it at someone else's mum's funeral. You know, that there's I think that's the difference. But uh I don't think there's any um taboos in in humor. It's where the humor comes from. Humour comes from a good or a bad place.

Speaker 252:33

So context is often a

Martin Freeman52:34

Of course.

Presenter52:34

Uh

Martin Freeman52:35

Of course.

Presenter52:36

Yeah.

Presenter52:37

The wonderful Ricky Gervais speaking to Kirsty in 2007. Desert Island Discs is taking its usual five-week Easter break now, and to keep you going in the meantime, you'll find an amazing cast list of actors and comedians, musicians, and scientists on BBC Sounds. I'll be back on May the 12th when I'm delighted to say my guest will be Louis Theroux. Do join us then.

Speaker 153:20

You know the way late at night, in bed, in the dark, your tired mind can wander and strange thoughts float like balloons escaping into the sky? Well Bunkbed is a podcast where Peter Curran and Patrick Marbur find the nearest faraway place from the hurly burley of daily life where tired minds can wander.

Speaker 153:47

Why don't you come along and eavesdrop and see if you like it? You can subscribe to Bunkbed on BBC Sounds.