Jacqueline Gold

Jacqueline Gold0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Presenter0:04

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:42

My castaway this week is Jacqueline Gold. You could be forgiven for associating her with another woman's name before her own. Back in the early seventies Anne Summers was a small chain of shops her father picked up for a song.

Presenter0:55

Back then, they sold top shelf magazines and sex toys to an almost exclusively male clientele Jacqueline describes as the Raincoat Brigade. Her idea to focus the business on women-only at-home sales parties turned it into a nationally successful brand. She insists that her way of doing business empowers women in the boardroom and the bedroom, describing her company as a female institution. Her shops are a familiar presence on British high streets and are holding fast in a time of uncertainty for retailers. As she puts it, sex sells even in recession. But if you think she's had a charmed life, the personal story that accompanies her professional success might come as a surprise. She faced traumatic teenage years, ominous threats from opponents to her business, the loss of a child in infancy and a cancer diagnosis. Success, she says, is about confidence, but first comes courage. If you've faced fears, you also have courage to move yourself forward and step outside of your comfort zone. I'm convinced that great things will happen if you do.

Presenter2:01

Welcome to Desert Island Discs, Jacqueline Gould. Well, it's a great pleasure to be here, Lauren.

Presenter2:06

So you describe your company as a female institution. How does that manifest? What are you trying to do for women?

Jacqueline Gold2:13

I mean, female sort of empowerment has always been at the heart of everything we do. When I joined Ann Summers, you know, it was a very male dominated business. I made a decision right at the beginning that there were going to be no men at the parties.

Jacqueline Gold2:26

And the parties in particular it was just fantastic to see women suddenly come out of their shells, talk to each other about their sex lives, you know, share their stories, try on underwear without feeling uncomfortable.

Jacqueline Gold2:38

What we did was a real

Presenter2:39

Culture change. How different is the reality of the business from people's preconceptions about it, do you think?

Jacqueline Gold2:46

Well, I do you know, I remember years and years ago getting in a taxi and saying, Oh, could you take me to Anne Summers' head office?

Jacqueline Gold2:54

And he said, as we drew up, he said, You're not going in there, are you?

Jacqueline Gold2:58

And I said, yes, I am. Why? Oh, you know what goes on in there. I said, no, tell me.

Jacqueline Gold3:05

And I think he had this vision of women walking around in thigh-high PVC boots. And, you know, it could be nothing further from the truth. Yes, it's fun. But, you know, this is a serious business and a business that I'm incredibly passionate about. You're one of the

Presenter3:21

UK's most successful businesswoman and you're also a parent. What do you do in your downtime?

Jacqueline Gold3:27

I'm a traditionalist, Lauren, you know. I love family time, love taking Scarlett to the cinema. I've just got two puppies who are very demanding. I love going for country walks, I love football. Of course it has to be West Ham. Your dad David is the

Presenter3:39

Yeah, of course.

Jacqueline Gold3:42

Co-owner of West Han. I love West Han. You know, we've got such great routes that take us back to Green Street.

Presenter3:42

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold3:47

My grandmother lived in four hundred forty two Green Street, could you believe? Right next to the ground, back. Right opposite the stadium, and she used to sell souvenirs and I'd go into her sweet shop when my dad used to go to the the footy and help her in the store. Great memories. Tell me about your first piece of music, Jacqueline. Why have you chosen it?

Presenter3:52

I got

Jacqueline Gold4:07

Well I've chosen Girls Just Want to Have Fun by Cindy Lauper really because this was all about the Anne Summers party plan. It was empowering and just having all these amazing women going out there doing great things and feeling really confident. It just says everything about how fun that time was.

Speaker 24:30

My mother

Speaker 24:31

When you gonna live your life right

Speaker 24:35

Oh my god.

Speaker 24:39

Girls they wanna have fun Oh girls just wanna have fun

Speaker 24:53

It's opening.

Speaker 24:54

And the middle of the night, my body else. What you gonna do with your life? Oh, daddy did.

Presenter5:07

Girls Just Want to Have Fun by Cindy Lauper. Jacqueline Gold, you were born in 1960 to David and Beryl Gold and your dad was an East End boy, made good.

Jacqueline Gold5:18

Tell us about him.

Presenter5:18

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold5:18

I mean I just have the most amazing relationship with my dad and my sister. We love him to bits. And actually in some ways I think he and I are very similar. He's the ever optimist and he's really passionate. The strange thing about my relationship with my dad is as a child growing up I don't really remember him. My parents divorced when I was 12 years old.

Jacqueline Gold5:41

And then of course we had this estranged relationship for so long. It was difficult. I didn't really see a lot of him because he was always working. And then of course when he left it just became even more difficult each time he visited. You know, we'd sort of sit there on one sofa, him on the other. My sister, who would have been about five at the time

Jacqueline Gold6:00

You couldn't form a relationship or grow a relationship in that type of environment.

Presenter6:04

And there wasn't a kind of expectation, a way of doing that in those days.

Jacqueline Gold6:09

That was just so different, Lauren. You know, today it's more common. Children go and stay with their fathers or they take them out for the day and mums want to nurture that. And I just think it was, you know, very frosty, uncomfortable. It was impossible really.

Jacqueline Gold6:25

And what about your mother?

Presenter6:25

So how would you describe her during the early years of your childhood?

Jacqueline Gold6:29

My mother was a very kind woman.

Jacqueline Gold6:32

But she was also quite timid, and I think about her with sadness, unfortunately, but when I think back I remember my mum saying to me once, I wish I could just live in a field.

Jacqueline Gold6:46

With nobody around me. Mum was almost scared of life and was just happier to be in a small, unadventurous sort of environment. That must have been hard for you. It was, because mum, because of her fear of life, she was like that with my sister and I. We were quite suppressed, you know, we couldn't go for sleepovers, we couldn't go on school trips, we didn't really have any friends, it felt quite lonely, so we only occasionally played with our cousins.

Presenter7:13

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold7:13

You were a

Presenter7:13

an only child as well until your sister was born when you were seven, I think. That's right, yes. What kind of girl were you? Did your mum's anxiety impact on you and make you a little bit more reserved and shy than you might have been?

Jacqueline Gold7:17

That's right, yes.

Jacqueline Gold7:24

You might have been? Absolutely. I was a sparrow of a child to look at. I was really tiny and looked so much younger than my years. And I was really timid, really shy. And one thing I've learnt in later life, you know, you're not born shy. Anybody who thinks that's the way they are, you know, it is about your environment. That's why I said, you know, you said at the beginning that I have this belief that courage comes before confidence because

Jacqueline Gold7:52

You know, if you can have the courage to put yourself in a situation which is uncomfortable.

Jacqueline Gold7:57

But pushes you. You know, confidence does come and great things can come out of that. Jacqueline, tell me about your next piece of music. Why have you chosen it?

Presenter8:05

Uh

Jacqueline Gold8:06

Well, I've chosen I Feel Loved by Donna Summer. I mean, this is a classic record, but it does remind me.

Jacqueline Gold8:12

Of my teenage years, it reminds me of wearing these denim platform boots that I actually had to walk down the stairs on my bottom. They were so high. And actually my first boyfriend, so it's quite nostalgic for me.

Presenter8:56

I Feel Love by Donna Summer.

Presenter8:59

Jacqueline Gould, your parents divorced in nineteen seventy two when you were twelve, and your teenagers were traumatic at at times. You've described being sexually abused from the age of twelve, and the person that you allege abused you was present in your life in such a way that you couldn't avoid him. What sort of impact did that have on you?

Jacqueline Gold9:17

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold9:19

You know, it was a negative period in my life that lasted three years. It was very difficult. I try not to think about it too much because, you know, I'm such a positive person. But what I can say is that adversity has helped shape the person that I am today. I'm very resilient. I'm very strong. And I think that, you know, everybody deals with these things differently. For me, focusing on the positive, focusing on the future.

Jacqueline Gold9:48

And what I can do to feel empowered. You know, I had a lot of Saturday jobs, for example, when I was very young. I worked in hairdressers, I worked as a waitress, I worked for Royal Dalton, and I worked at the airfield. All of these things were great for me because it helped to start building my confidence and it helped to give me financial independence, which was really important to me. Because it wasn't just about that physical abuse. There was also what I explained to you about my mum. Although I loved her, she was that held me back.

Presenter10:20

Since the advent of the Me Too movement, there's been a lot of debate about what it is that prevents women and girls from speaking up about abuse at the time that it happens. What do you think needs to change to help survivors? Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold10:32

Uh

Presenter10:32

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold10:32

Whilst this has shone a light on people's difficulties, it's important that that happens and I think the Me Too campaign will go on and on and on.

Jacqueline Gold10:41

And I think that it's understandable that women didn't speak out at the time. First of all, there's that huge fear that nobody's going to believe you.

Jacqueline Gold10:51

And then there's a fear.

Jacqueline Gold10:53

Did I contribute to this in some way? No, you didn't

Jacqueline Gold10:57

But I think it's sometimes in our nature to sort of look inward and and sort of take blame and I think that's just the way we're brought up.

Jacqueline Gold11:05

And I feel very strongly about how we bring up our children. We need to empower women.

Jacqueline Gold11:12

from the point they're little girls, you know. This is about treating boys and girls exactly the same, not just giving all of the household choice to the little girl. No wonder when the boys do well and reach the boardroom they expect the women to pour the tea.

Jacqueline Gold11:27

And obviously bringing our boys up to respect women and respect those boundaries.

Jacqueline Gold11:33

Time for some music. Jacqueline, tell me about your next piece. I Was Made for Loving You, which was my soft rock phase. It was when I met my first husband, Tony. I was only twenty at the time. Jacqueline, am I right in thinking that you may at some point have dressed up as one of kids?

Jacqueline Gold11:50

Actually, we were invited to this black and white fancy dress party on the Solent in Southampton. And I love a fancy dress party, so I went for it. I dressed up as the Devil's Bride. My husband, I dressed him up as the lead singer from KISS. That's Gene Simmons, excellent. Yep, and we got on a little ferry that took us to a fort in the middle of the Solent. It was pitch black.

Speaker 112:04

Uh

Speaker 212:04

Uh

Speaker 112:04

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold12:11

and he said I'll be back at one in the morning.

Jacqueline Gold12:14

So we thought, great, we're going to party the night away. We then walked up these like dingy, wet, dark steps to the fort.

Jacqueline Gold12:22

And oh my God, as we walked in, everybody but everybody was dressed in black and white tie.

Jacqueline Gold12:31

That has to be the worst moment of my life. The most embarrassing moment, certainly.

Speaker 212:40

Perfect for love and me that I can

Speaker 212:47

Even can you get enough of me tonight?

Speaker 212:54

I wanna see it in your eyes

Speaker 212:58

Feel the magic.

Speaker 213:02

Something that drive me wild

Presenter13:08

Kiss and I was made for loving you. Jacqueline Gould Your dad's company had bought the two Ann Summers shops and the brand in nineteen seventy. Then in nineteen seventy nine you came into the business as a nineteen year old on work experience. What was it like doing that, being the boss's daughter?

Jacqueline Gold13:24

It was horrible being the boss's daughter. I hated it. You know, nobody trusted me. But what was awful was that the people I worked with didn't talk to me because I was the boss's daughter and I barely knew my father at that time because we hadn't at that point rebonded.

Jacqueline Gold13:40

And I did everything. Worked in the wages department. And of course it was while I was there that I just by chance got invited to this Pippa D party. Yes, so this is a bit like a Tupperware party, only with clothes. In about nineteen eighty one this happened.

Presenter13:53

That's right.

Jacqueline Gold13:55

And I went to one of these parties and they played this game.

Jacqueline Gold13:59

where they asked everybody at the party to draw a picture of their husband's meat and two veg on a piece of paper on top of their head.

Jacqueline Gold14:08

Wow. Well, this was definitely not how I imagined my career starting, that's for sure, Lauren.

Jacqueline Gold14:13

But what was interesting was that women at the party there was about twelve women at this party saying to me, Where do you work then? I said, Well, I'm just doing work experience at the moment and summers. Got no intention of staying, you know, it's really very male-dominated environment. And these women were saying to me, We want to be able to buy sexy underwear. We don't want to wear all all that harsh lace stuff. We want to buy nice sexy underwear that makes us feel good about ourselves. And we want to spice up our sex lives, but we don't want our husbands doing it for us.

Jacqueline Gold14:44

And I just thought, oh my God, there is this amazing opportunity here and I've got to try some of this myself.

Jacqueline Gold14:54

So I went back to the office, I borrowed some product from the warehouse, which was a bit challenging because it was very much aimed at men. And then I held a party for a group of friends that lived in Biggin Hill where I lived at the time. And I know it's quite hard to capture this on radio, but when I passed around the hummingbird, which was... Am I allowed to say the V-word? I think you can say it. I can say the V-word. Okay. So I passed around the Hummingbird vibrator, switched on.

Speaker 115:14

You can see the V2.

Jacqueline Gold15:20

And all the guests were like eyes wide open, really curious and excited but nervous at the same time. And so they sort of bobbed it along with their hands because obviously it wasn't. It looks as if it's mo making its own way, the way that your dog's

Presenter15:29

It looks as if it's mo making its own way, the way that you're demonstrating that it's just vibrating from guest to guest.

Jacqueline Gold15:33

From guest to guest. A bit like having one of those sort of games like a time bomb that you've got to get rid of as quickly as possible.

Jacqueline Gold15:40

But I knew there was something in this, and I knew

Jacqueline Gold15:44

that it had to be for women only.

Presenter15:47

I think when you speak to business people, they'll often talk about the benefits of being too young to know all the things that you don't know when you're first starting out. And I wonder if that applies to you back then when you were twenty one.

Jacqueline Gold15:57

It absolutely does apply to me because what I thought was a great disadvantage, not having business experience or selling experience.

Jacqueline Gold16:06

It actually forced me to rely on feedback from my customers, which at the time I thought was a disadvantage. I mean, my God, today, that's fundamental. But of course, it was getting it across the line with the board and getting the investment. That was the hard bit. I'm definitely going to ask you about that. But right now, let's have some more music. Tell me about your fourth disc. My fourth disc is by Taylor Dane, Tell It to My Heart. And I've chosen this record because.

Jacqueline Gold16:31

It reminds me of two things. It reminds me of my sister, Vanessa. We are best friends, joined at the hit, we do everything together. And I just remember her singing this and dancing in the clubs. But it was also at a time when business was just taking off and we flew all of these party plan girls out to Jersey in a chartered jet. And it just reminds me of that amazing time.

Speaker 217:14

More power.

Speaker 217:18

It's never ending

Presenter17:23

Taylor Dayan with Tal It to My Heart. Jacqueline Gould, you came up with a party plan idea that would turn your business around in nineteen eighty one. You were just twenty one. What was it like taking that quite radical concept to the board, who I presume back then were much older than you and all men?

Jacqueline Gold17:41

It was really quite difficult.

Jacqueline Gold17:43

You know, there was about half a dozen, maybe more, grey suited middle aged men sitting round a table.

Jacqueline Gold17:48

And I remember talking through the idea.

Jacqueline Gold17:51

And one man stood up,

Jacqueline Gold17:54

He threw his pen down on the table. He said, This isn't going to work, is it? Women aren't even interested in sex.

Jacqueline Gold18:00

And I remember wanting to sort of choke at the time on my drink, thinking, oh my god, this says a lot more about your sex life than it does about my idea. But obviously I couldn't say that because I needed the investment. So how did you handle it? Well, I carried on and I did manage to get the board to invest. I think they invested something like £40,000. And I used that money to advertise in the London Evening Standard. Who turned up? Because I know you had to word your ads quite carefully. Yeah, I did, because you couldn't say things like erotic then, so I had to put exotic. I then had to do my filtering once I was there. And, you know, I remember, I don't know, probably be about 25 people in the room maybe, as I started to talk about my

Jacqueline Gold18:44

I dare some people would get up and leave.

Jacqueline Gold18:46

Other people I'd had to ask them to leave because they clearly weren't right for me. I remember talking to one couple, two women, that wanted to work together and they both lived in Chelsea and they were bored. And they said, We want to earn money and we want to have fun doing it. And at that time I did everything myself. I trained them and

Presenter19:05

What were you like at this point? Because you weren't quite there with your full business capabilities. You were still a pretty young girl.

Jacqueline Gold19:12

It's true I found it difficult at the beginning, but a turning point for me was when I thought, right, well, I've got this team of women.

Jacqueline Gold19:20

I've now got to hold an event where I can talk to them and motivate them and inspire them. And I remember having this event for about 100 women.

Jacqueline Gold19:28

and then about to go out on stage thinking, What the hell have I done? You know, I can't do this. But they were all sitting there waiting, so I had to, and I just thought, Do you know, just go out and tell them tell them what you think.

Jacqueline Gold19:41

And that's what I did. Jacqueline, tell me about your next piece of music. Why have you chosen this? Do you know, I love this song. I've chosen My Love Is Your Love by Whitney Hewson.

Jacqueline Gold19:51

Because it reminds me of the one period in my life when I was single for three years. I'd split up from my husband, I'd met

Jacqueline Gold20:00

Somebody else and had a long-term relationship there and then felt sorry for myself for a while and then my girlfriends, my girl tribe rallied around and I just had an awesome three years.

Speaker 220:27

Uh

Jacqueline Gold20:27

Lord, ask me what I did with my life.

Speaker 220:27

No

Jacqueline Gold20:31

I will stay.

Jacqueline Gold20:33

I suspect it with you, I'm not sure.

Jacqueline Gold20:40

If I wake up in World War II, world war war

Speaker 220:46

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold20:47

I see destruction and poverty

Presenter20:52

Winnie Houston, and my love is your love. Jacqueline Gold, the first female friendly Ann Summers store, opened in nineteen ninety three in London. And a few years later, one of your products infamously featured in an episode of Sex in the City. How much has the conversation about female sexuality changed since you started out?

Jacqueline Gold21:12

I mean, the whole conversation really, we're on a different page now. We don't brush things under the carpet like we did years ago.

Jacqueline Gold21:20

It's healthy for relationships. You know, if you can talk in a relationship about what's important for you, what you don't like, what you do like and not making it taboo, you need to be able to have those conversations without feeling uncomfortable.

Presenter21:34

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold21:34

If

Presenter21:34

Faced some pretty stiff opposition to your business over the years, including once being sent a bullet in the post. What happened?

Jacqueline Gold21:44

Well, I wanted to open a store in Dublin, in O'Connell Street, but when the Dublin Corporation, the sort of equivalent to our council, found out what my plans were, they were immediately on the phone trying to persuade me to open my store in a side street, which I was absolutely not doing. So I decided to invite them down to my head office, to show them our stores, give them a tour and, you know, have a reasonable conversation with them. And when the two gentlemen came down, they sort of played a good cop, bad cop scenario. One couldn't even look at me, the other one just wanted to talk about his sex life all the time.

Jacqueline Gold22:19

And I quickly realized that, you know what, whatever I said, it wasn't going to change their minds. So I said that to them. And one of them said to me, Well, actually, that's true. But if you do open that store, we cannot be held responsible for what might happen to you. You know, and that that was quite chilling. And I did for a minute think.

Jacqueline Gold22:40

God, should I go ahead with this?

Jacqueline Gold22:42

But I thought, no, I absolutely do want to go ahead with this. I wasn't going to have anybody tell me in any shape or form that I couldn't open the store. So it was a week before I opened the store that I received the letter through the post.

Jacqueline Gold22:55

And then I I there was lots of negative publicity in in Ireland at the time, but I was invited to go on the Late Late Show, something I'd never done before, but I thought this is the only way I can get my story across. And to see sitting at the very front of the stage, these two guys, I thought, oh my god, this isn't going to go well. And one of them stood up, you know, banging his chest, saying, you know, this was terrible for Ireland, this shouldn't be allowed. And then this woman at the back.

Jacqueline Gold23:22

She stood up and she's pointing down at the front. She's going, How dare you tell us where we can and can't shop?

Jacqueline Gold23:28

And then of course everybody followed suit. Time for some music. What about your sixth disc, Jacqueline? Why have you chosen this? Wow, my sixth disc is a real upbeat song called Groovejet, and I've chosen this because it reminds me of when I met my second husband, my second and final husband.

Presenter23:33

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold23:47

Dan, who I've been married to for eight years, but we've been together for eighteen years.

Jacqueline Gold23:54

And he's the most lovely husband I could have. I love him to bits, and this one reminds me of him.

Presenter24:05

Everything's not gonna be

Presenter24:08

Know that you need it and try to believe it. Take me one step at a time if you stay alone.

Presenter24:34

Spiller and Groovejet. Jacqueline Gould, you met your partner Dan at your fortieth birthday party, I think. Um he's seventeen years younger than you and after a while you two embarked on IVF. What impact did it have on your relationship at the time?

Jacqueline Gold24:48

I mean, going through IVF is w one of the most

Jacqueline Gold24:52

Emotional roller coaster

Jacqueline Gold24:55

journeys anybody could experience. And this is obviously ten years ago now. And Dan, as you said, was a lot younger than me. He really struggled with those moments of disappointment when you realize you weren't pregnant.

Jacqueline Gold25:09

I mean, we've been together eighteen years, but we had a a uh a sort of eighteen month, two year break.

Jacqueline Gold25:15

with no plans to get back together again, you know we loved each other, but you know, we couldn't cope with that emotional stress. And two years later I bumped into Dan just by complete chance in a nightclub in London. I was at a friend's thirtieth. I called in, it was about one in the morning.

Jacqueline Gold25:36

And my friend said, What do you want to drink? I said, Just a cranberry juice would be great. And then he's he's literally this club full of a thousand people or whatever. He's standing like three feet away from me.

Jacqueline Gold25:46

I've gone, put a vocal in there.

Jacqueline Gold25:51

And then it was just, oh my God, you know, we were meant to be together. It was just one of those sort of.

Jacqueline Gold25:57

Feature film moments, really. And once you take that pressure away,

Jacqueline Gold26:01

You know, that I want to be with you whether we have children or not.

Jacqueline Gold26:05

you know, it shifts things and changes everything. So you re

Presenter26:07

You reunited with Dan in two thousand nine and you resumed IVF in the US and conceived twins when you were forty eight. How did you feel when you found out that you were pregnant?

Presenter26:18

Uh

Jacqueline Gold26:18

I mean, I I was ecstatic and and to find out that was carrying twins.

Jacqueline Gold26:24

When you've been through such a difficult journey, to then hear

Jacqueline Gold26:29

that you've got two was just amazing.

Presenter26:31

Uh

Jacqueline Gold26:32

Suwalfi and

Presenter26:32

and Scarlett were born in may two thousand nine, but Alfie was never well enough to come home from hospital.

Presenter26:38

It must have been the most horrendous time. How did you get through it? How did the two of you get through it?

Jacqueline Gold26:45

I just I mean my husband was amazing.

Jacqueline Gold26:48

I struggled, I really struggled on a number of le levels. First of all, I'd been told at about 12 weeks that one of my babies had a fatal abnormality and that he wouldn't survive the birth. So there was an assumption that he would pass naturally. But when you have two babies inside you, that's very hard to accept, understand, rationalise. And I sort of grieved for my baby while he was in the womb.

Jacqueline Gold27:28

So as we got closer and closer to the birth date.

Jacqueline Gold27:33

I'm thinking, you know, my baby's still here.

Jacqueline Gold27:36

And I I was huge, by the way, and I lived in hospital for two months before the birth. I felt very vulnerable. I went everywhere in a wheelchair. And then, of course, when my babies were born,

Jacqueline Gold27:53

Alfie did survive the birth, and he was crying when he was born, but not as babies do. He was crying because he was in pain.

Jacqueline Gold28:04

You know, that no mother should ever have to go through that and hear hear her child cry in pain.

Speaker 128:07

And here

Jacqueline Gold28:13

Tell me about your seventh disc to day, Jacqueline.

Jacqueline Gold28:17

So, um, in memory of Alfie, I've chosen one of my favourite all timer songs. It was also the song we played at his funeral, which is Wishing on a Star by Rose Royce.

Speaker 228:32

I'm wishing on a star

Speaker 228:38

Follow where you are.

Speaker 228:43

I'm wishing all the dream

Speaker 228:48

To follow what it means

Speaker 228:54

I'm wishing on a star to find a way you are.

Speaker 229:03

I'm missing all

Presenter29:08

Wishing on a Star by Rose Royce. Jacqueline Gold, you're playing that for Alfie. And that's a a track that you talk to your daughter Scarlett about and when you talk about Alfie.

Jacqueline Gold29:20

Yes, because, you know, we talk regularly about Alfie. I mean, Scarlett still misses her twin now. Um she's got all photos beside her bed of him. And I the reason I chose that record for his funeral is because we always talk about Alfie as being the brightest star in the sky.

Jacqueline Gold29:36

And for me a star is what symbolizes Alfie. And we could be on holiday, and Scarlett goes, Oh, mummy, look, there's um Alfie and uh Alfie lived for eight eight months.

Jacqueline Gold29:50

You just want to keep everything private during that period.

Jacqueline Gold29:53

But then, once you get past the first stage of grieving, which I guess is just about accepting what's happened.

Jacqueline Gold30:01

You know, we we just wanted to

Jacqueline Gold30:04

Make sure that we could celebrate his life and talk positively about him instead of being sad all the time. So we try to be as positive as we can.

Jacqueline Gold30:14

Yeah.

Presenter30:14

Scarlett is now nine, and I think she first saw you give a presentation at a business meeting when she was five. Why?

Jacqueline Gold30:20

Why?

Jacqueline Gold30:22

Well, I desperately want my daughter to grow up believing she can be whatever she wants to be, and I want her to have bundles of confidence that I didn't have when I was her age and when I was growing up.

Jacqueline Gold30:36

An

Jacqueline Gold30:37

I don't know. The idea came out of nowhere. I was just doing the speech, and they're normally predominantly men at these events.

Jacqueline Gold30:45

And I wanted Scarlett to see Mummy onstage and think this is normal, this is not just something men do.

Jacqueline Gold30:53

And uh that's why that's why she came. And I, you know, I'm glad really glad I did it, and I know she's proud of her mummy.

Jacqueline Gold31:02

And, boy, is she confident.

Jacqueline Gold31:05

Time for some more music. Tell me about your eighth disc to d Oh, my eighth disc is a real danced number, Uptown Funk by Mark Ronson. And it reminds me of twenty fifteen and actually I received it in twenty sixteen, my CBE in the New Year's Honor, which is the probably the most memorable time in my career. And it just reminds me of celebration

Jacqueline Gold31:27

And it was so fantastic because for me, I was recognized for all the things that I feel passionate about, enterprise, women in business, social enterprise and entrepreneurship. It makes me very proud to hear this.

Speaker 231:44

This shit, that ice cold, Michelle fight for that white gold. This one for them hood girls, them good girls, straight masterpieces. Styling, wild, living it up in the city. Got Chucks on with Saint Laurent. Gotta kiss myself, I'm so pretty. I'm too ridiculous.

Speaker 232:02

Caught a police and the fireman are too hot

Speaker 232:06

Make a dragon wanna retire, man, I'm too hot

Speaker 232:10

Say my name, you know

Presenter32:14

Uptown Funk Mark Ronson featuring Bruno Mars. Jacqueline Gold, I know you love a beach break. How do you think that you will get on on our island? Because this time your girlfriends won't be present with you.

Jacqueline Gold32:27

Well, I'm very resilient and I would definitely be thinking, right, I don't want to be here on my own, no matter how beautiful and hot it is. What's my strategy for getting off this island?

Presenter32:39

So straight away you'd be planning

Jacqueline Gold32:39

Totally. I'd make a good Tom Hanks.

Jacqueline Gold32:44

Uh

Presenter32:44

Now I'll give you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take another book of your own. What will yours be?

Jacqueline Gold32:49

Okay, well I'm going to take The Secret by Rhonda Byrne simply because I need lots of positive energy and I need to be able to see the vision that I'm off at the end. As you're weaving your escape raft, that will be what you're reading. And a luxury item too? I'm very grumpy if I don't have a good night's sleep.

Jacqueline Gold33:09

So my luxury item would be a feather pillow.

Presenter33:12

Uh

Jacqueline Gold33:12

It's yours.

Presenter33:12

It's yours. And finally, if you could only save one of the tracks that you've chosen today, which would it be?

Presenter33:18

Ah, it would be Wishing on a Star by Rose Royce.

Presenter33:22

Jacqueline Gould, thank you very much indeed for sharing your desert island discs with us. Thank you.

Presenter33:37

I hope you enjoyed that interview with Jacqueline. A whole host of other businesswomen are currently plotting their next ventures on their desert islands. Australian businesswoman Janet Holmes Accord was Sue Lawley's guest in 1996. Kirstie Young spoke to Joe Malone in 2015, to Hilary DeVay in 2012 and to Karen Brady in 2008. In 2010, Kirstie cast away retail consultant extraordinaire Mary Portis. Kirstie asked Mary about her spectacular window displays at Harvey Nichols, including a particularly standout creation featuring old car bonnets.

Presenter34:14

What I did was I drove out to where these car derelict cars are, where they

Jacqueline Gold34:18

Scrap metal yards, and they thought all their all their Christmases had come at once because I just bought all the scrap metal. And I said, Right, guys, but I want you to spray it pink.

Jacqueline Gold34:28

And then I sprayed them with pictures of different stars. So one was Michael Caine, one was George Best. And the George Best one I also piled up footballs and sprayed part of his picture onto. So I made the sculpture of these car parts. And one day I came out from work and I saw George Best standing in front of the windows having his picture taken.

Speaker 234:49

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold34:49

Stick. And did you talk to him about it? I did. I did, because Best was my father's hero. You know, the Man United sixties footballer that I remember just being stuck in front of the T V.

Speaker 235:00

All of this creativity that's in you, all of this originality, this ability to think beyond the norms of what most people do.

Jacqueline Gold35:02

Sinew

Speaker 135:06

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 235:08

Do you not feel in a way that you are short changed by channelling it into retail? Do you not think you should be there creating an incredible work of art that has a sort of purity in it that isn't tied to, in the end, earning a buck to send the the share price up or or whatever else?

Jacqueline Gold35:24

Well, you know, the the thing is, d do I do I worry that it's a commercial ve you know, vehicle in the end? No, because I actually genuinely don't even think that way. What turns me on is that I think when someone wants to come to this store, I want them to go

Jacqueline Gold35:39

You know, this this inspires me. This is fantastic. I want to be in this place. I call it being and buying. The first thing is create a place where I want to be.

Speaker 235:48

Yeah.

Jacqueline Gold35:48

And it's a given people will

Speaker 235:50

And you know it's always worked. Tell me, Mary Portis, how it came to be that that you ended up seeing both Mohammed Ali and David Dimbleby in their pants. Oh, that was

Jacqueline Gold36:00

Harrods. I was working at Harrods and I was working on the back windows. And um you the the the windows used to back on to the men's changing rooms and I came out, stepped out and Ali is just standing there in his box of shorts and literally in the cubicle. So there's he and Arlie.

Speaker 236:17

Uh

Speaker 236:18

Uh

Jacqueline Gold36:18

About

Speaker 236:19

Two foot by two foot cubicle and it was Ali. I mean, what did you say? What did he say? I said, I'm so sorry. He just burst out laughing. I don't think he gave a monkey.

Jacqueline Gold36:26

I was standing there. He was massive as well, I do remember. And those really big cotton boxer shorts, you know, none of those huggies.

Speaker 236:35

And what about David Dimpleby?

Jacqueline Gold36:36

Yeah.

Speaker 236:36

Oh, I don't remember his pants too well, but I do remember it was him and I think he lost.

Jacqueline Gold36:41

Well, I mean, God, you know, what was I? A twenty two year old girl getting going all purple. I was all flustered and left everything in the windows and just ran.

Presenter36:50

Crikey, you never know what you're going to hear on Desert Island Discs, do you? Mary Porters speaking to Kirsty in 2010. There are over 2,000 more delightful people in the programme's back catalogue just waiting for you to find them. And you can download and listen to all of them wherever you want. Next time, I'll be casting away the photographer, Van Lee Burke. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 137:13

Hello, it's me, Mae Martin. I hope you enjoyed the podcast you just listened to. Can I recommend another podcast that you might enjoy? It's called Grown Upland, and it's a podcast for people who find the adult world a bit much. Every week, me, Bishop K. Ali, and Ned Sedgwick, and tons of other guests try to get our heads around stuff that confuses us, like sex. Very confused by sex, fear, food, and friendship. I'm running out of time for this ad. Ned, how would you sum up the podcast?

Speaker 237:41

Um, I said it's like a guidebook for people who don't really know where they're going or where they've been.

Speaker 137:46

Great. Thanks, Ned. That's Grown Upland, and you can find it on BBC Sounds.