Tom Daley

Presenter0:00

This is the BBC. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. This is an extended version of the original Radio 4 broadcast and, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:43

At just 24, my guest today is one of our younger castaways. However, his age belies his experience. He has already amassed more than one lifetime's worth of achievements. And who better than a diver to fit a lot into a short space of time? Anyone who can squeeze three and a half somersaults plus a twist into the 1.9 seconds between leaving the 10-metre board and hitting the water below at over 30 miles per hour knows how to make the most of every moment. Tom Daly first learned to dive at seven. By 10, he was a prodigy, the youngest ever under 18 UK champion. At 14, he represented Britain at the Beijing Olympics. Ten years later, he is a two-time world champion and also has four Commonwealth golds and two Olympic bronze medals in his trophy cabinet. Frequently described as mature, he's had to do his growing up in public, dealing with bullies at school, losing his beloved dad Rob just a year before the London 2012 Olympics, his relationship with his husband Lance and the arrival of their son Robbie Ray have all been front page news. And with the Tokyo Olympics in 2020 next on the horizon, the scrutiny and expectation aren't letting up any time soon. So welcome, Tom. Thank you. I want to start at the edge of the 10-metre board. Now we all have those edge-of-the-diving board moments in life, but for most of us, of course, they are metaphorical, the moment before we make some kind of figurative leap. I want you to talk me through your literal version. What's it like standing up there staring down at that little sparkling blue square of water?

Tom Daley2:12

I want you to

Presenter2:19

Yeah.

Tom Daley2:19

It is terrifying. And I remember the first time that I went up onto the 10-meter platform, and I was about eight years old. And I felt like I literally had to crawl on my hands and knees to the edge because it feels like when you're that high up, it feels like the diving board narrows and narrows and narrows, almost like you're on a balancing beam that you could fall off at any moment. So I figured that getting my center of gravity as low as possible to the diving board was going to be the safest bet for me. But when you stand up there, there's this overwhelming feeling of adrenaline and all of your senses are completely heightened and you become so hyper-vigilant to everything that's going on around you. The light, the noises. It's a really weird, almost out-of-body experience to stand up there. Because if you actually think about what you're doing, no sane-minded human would actually do it. So you have to really be in the moment and focus on process.

Speaker 12:43

Lowest

Presenter3:14

And you dive with your eyes open, which I found fascinating. Does everyone? Is that unusual?

Tom Daley3:16

Yeah.

Tom Daley3:19

Yeah, so just like a ballet dancer might, you know, pirouette and spot a wall as they're spinning, we do exactly the same thing but with the water. So if we don't know which way's up and where we are in the air, there's no chance really of landing vertical in the water. So yeah, you have to learn to dive with your eyes open and shut them just before you hit the water so that you don't get an eye full of water.

Presenter3:41

And what about landing? I mean, I know obviously it can hurt when it goes wrong, but what about when it goes right?

Tom Daley3:43

It goes

Tom Daley3:47

It hurts when it goes wrong and when it goes right, if I'm being completely honest. Obviously, it hurts a lot more if it goes wrong. I've broken ribs, coughed up blood, you know, instant bruising. Some people even split skin when they hit the water, spinning at the right speed and at the wrong angle. Whereas when you hit the water vertical, all of the pressure and all of the impact goes from the palms of your hands through to your shoulders, through your triceps, through your back. And sometimes when you hit the water and you have the cleanest of entries, when you have that rip entry and all the splash gets sucked under, that impact goes.

Tom Daley4:21

Like pretty pretty hard through your shoulders and your spine. So after a while, it's definitely a young man's sport.

Presenter4:27

So the rip is it sounds like a piece of paper to the

Tom Daley4:29

Tearing, exactly. Their aim is to when you hit the water, you split your hands as fast as you can and it creates a vacuum that sucks under the water so that you don't have the big, you know, cannonball effect.

Presenter4:40

And tell me a little bit more about the sensory experience because you said that it is this very kind of heightened experience to dive. And I read that sometimes while you're in the air, you can actually feel like you have quite a lot of time.

Tom Daley4:53

Yeah, it's this weird thing. You have to make so many decisions in fractions of seconds. So it almost feels like everything goes into slow motion. You know, like in a Matrix movie, all of a sudden everything slows down and you have so much more control than you actually could ever imagine. And when I take off and I jump into the air and I'm spinning, I see so much and my brain comprehends so much that I can't imagine it being only 1.8, 1.9 seconds.

Presenter5:19

Now, you know I'm going to cast you away, and I know that some listeners are going to be hearing this thinking that you must be a very strong swimmer and that you will escape from the island in ten minutes flat. Are they right? Will you try?

Tom Daley5:21

Yeah.

Tom Daley5:26

Yeah.

Tom Daley5:29

Are they right? Would you try? I'm not I'm not that strong a swimmer. Believe it or not. I s can swim to the edge of the pool, but doing like a fifty meter length of a pool, I am absolutely knackered by the end of it. I'd prefer to be out of the water and diving into it rather than swimming in it.

Tom Daley5:44

Yeah.

Presenter5:44

Okay, let's get to your track choices. Why is this one of your eight?

Tom Daley5:48

Well, this is one of my eight choices mainly because it resonated with me so strongly in the build-up to London 2012, a song that still to this day puts goosebumps on my arms and on the back of my neck and just thinking about how I was feeling going into London 2012 and how much I wanted to make my friends, my family and my country proud.

Speaker 26:12

What have you done today to make you feel around?

Speaker 26:18

Get some

Speaker 16:18

Never too late to try. What have you done today to make you feel alright?

Speaker 16:28

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 16:31

You could be so many people

Speaker 16:35

If you make them crack for freedom

Speaker 16:40

What have you done today to make you feel proud?

Presenter6:45

That was Heather Small singing Proud. Tom Daly were born in 1994 in Plymouth to Debbie and Rob, and when you arrived the midwife declared that you were a water baby.

Tom Daley6:56

Yes, I my mum was telling me that apparently because I had such big hands and feet that the midwife was like, oh, this one's definitely going to be a water baby. And yeah.

Presenter7:06

They are

Presenter7:07

Big hands, big feet, is that a good thing?

Tom Daley7:09

I think it's good for balance. So I've noticed with diving, and I feel like I should have been taller than I am. You know, I feel like maybe sport stunted my growth in some way. Maybe I was. But you're tall for a diver, aren't you? I'm tall for a diver. I'm just under 5'10. Most of the divers I compete against are like 5'4, even 5'3, maybe 5'5. But big hands help with balance when I'm doing my handstand. And then big feet help with being able to stand right up on my tiptoes on the edge of the diving board. I feel like I'm secure and have a good base to stand on.

Presenter7:18

Oh, you talk for a diver, aren't you?

Presenter7:38

So your mum and dad were quite young parents, weren't they? What was family life like?

Tom Daley7:42

I only have amazing memories from growing up down in Plymouth with my mum and dad, and they were so awesome all the time. And, you know, it's really, I now realise, being a parent, how supportive my family were and how different they were to lots of other sporting families that I've come to know because my mum and dad were supportive, they were never pushy. And if anything, I was the pushy child trying to get everyone out the door quick enough for me to get to the diving pool and being able to get to training.

Tom Daley8:15

Just being able to be surrounded by such love and you know support every single day makes me feel so incredibly lucky.

Presenter8:21

Maybe

Presenter8:24

So that's a perspective that you've come to recently. Tell me a little bit more about that, you know, looking back and maybe thinking again about the sacrifices that they've made.

Tom Daley8:32

Yeah. I mean, my dad used to work as hard as he could to be able to pay for me to be able to go to training and go to all these competitions that I had to go to in the very beginning, sacrificing all of his evenings to come and sit and watch me train and just spend hours and hours at the pool for me to do something that I love doing.

Presenter8:52

You do have two younger brothers. Yes. What were the dynamics between the three of you like?

Tom Daley8:53

Well

Tom Daley8:56

Well, we were all very sporty. I mean, there's lots of banter, put it this way. Like for example, when I won bronze in London, my brothers, the first thing they came up to me and they're like, ha ha, third place, third place I'm like, okay, thank you. Reassuringly normal sibling dynamic. Yes, absolutely. And we are all very competitive.

Presenter9:11

Yeah.

Presenter9:14

And how would you describe yourself when you were little? What were you like? What did you like doing? Um.

Tom Daley9:19

Apparently I was very driven and knew what I wanted and quite a creative kid. I loved to draw, love to s you know, cut things up and stick things back together. And in our garage my dad built this little seat with like a work table, if you like, and had all his these different shelves which had different colored pieces of paper, different kinds of glues, glitters and stickers that I just used to spend hours in there at the weekend in the evenings just creating something or another.

Presenter9:47

Would this be the garage that later would become home to his collection of press clippings?

Tom Daley9:51

Yes, exactly. My dad absolutely loved to keep press cliffings, whether it was an online article or a newspaper article. He would collect one copy of the actual thing, so he would keep it in like a little plastic wallet, and then he would laminate a copy. So he always had two copies of everything so that one was a bit more robust to be able to get out and have a look while keeping the original. And he ended up doing that for all the way up until he passed away. Yeah, now looking back on it, it's like a lot of hard work and effort that went into creating those folders.

Presenter10:24

You were a very confident swimmer from a young age, but when did you first become interested in diving itself?

Tom Daley10:30

Yeah, I just loved being in the water. I loved going to water parks. And one Saturday, my dad took us to, me and my brothers, to a Saturday, you know, fun session at the pool. It was a different pool that I'd been learning to swim in. And I saw people diving off the diving boards. And I was like, whoa, that looks fun. And then, you know, the next week on the Saturday morning, I went to the diving pool and I started diving myself. So it was just by luck that we had the facilities there to be able to do it in the first place.

Presenter10:59

Tell me about your second disc.

Tom Daley11:01

My second disc, haha. Well, I used to dress up as Elvis as a bit of inspiration from my dad, who also used to dress up as Elvis. We used to go camping every weekend down at Watergate Bay in near Newquay. And my dad would literally go to the caravan and he'd dress up in his full Elvis jumpsuit, glasses, wig, you name it, he had it. And he got me to start doing it because he was like, why don't you just do some karaoke? It's fun. You know, sing whatever you like. And I started off singing S Club 7 Reach for the Stars. And then it slowly transitioned into me dressing up myself, singing with my dad. And that's where Suspicious Minds was my karaoke song of choice.

Speaker 111:57

Can't see the tears of real life pride

Speaker 112:04

We can't go on together.

Speaker 112:09

Mr. Spices

Speaker 112:13

We can feel the dream

Presenter12:22

That was Elvis with suspicious minds. Tom Daly, you won your first trophy when you were nine and you were still at primary school, obviously. Did diving set you apart from your classmates?

Tom Daley12:35

Yes. I mean, I think it started off, everyone was so happy and excited about the fact that I was a diver and it was like kind of cool and like I could do somersaults and it was like an interesting skill to have. But it wasn't until like I went to the Olympics in Beijing that then

Tom Daley12:54

How my classmates saw me were started to be a little bit different, let's just say.

Presenter13:00

Tell me more about that.

Tom Daley13:02

I would have been, yeah, 14 and I was going into year nine at school. And I had had the most amazing experience at the Olympic Games. And then lots of media wanted to be there to witness my first day back at school. And there were lots of people in year seven. They'd never met me before. And it started to become really weird, like having to signing autographs at school and having photos with people at school. I was thrown into this whole different world that I had never experienced before. And

Tom Daley13:32

People used to throw things at me, call me name. I mean, I had scissors thrown at me, I had rolls of tape, and in the field at lunchtime, these guys would come like rugby tackle me to the floor and think it was like funny. And to the point where, like, I would start getting injured, and I just didn't feel safe anymore. And I felt scared and worried about going to school. It got to the point where I.

Tom Daley13:56

had to move school.

Presenter13:58

And you were offered a place, weren't you, at Plymouth College, a scholarship?

Tom Daley14:01

Yeah.

Presenter14:02

How did that change things?

Tom Daley14:03

I honestly, I think to this day, it was one of the best things that have happened in my life. Obviously, there's been lots of amazing things, but the way that it changed the course of how I felt, and I automatically felt safe and at home, and there was a completely different environment. And people understood what it was to be a sports person because there were lots of sports people at the school. I remember just feeling so much happier that my diving took a completely different turn. By that point, I was 15 and I went to my first world championships in a completely different headspace than what I had been the last few months. Felt so happy. And as my coach would say, I was like Peter Pan that could fly again. And I won my first world title.

Presenter14:47

At Plymouth College you weren't just excelling at your chosen sport. I mean, you were a straight A student. Were you a perfectionist? You know, this exceptional drive and kind of singularity of mind and focus that you're describing, that's that's unusual for a teenage boy, isn't it?

Tom Daley15:03

Yeah, I think I definitely was, I still am, a perfectionist, but I think there is something as well of growing up feeling slightly different and not feeling like the rest of your classmates and not feeling like you fit in and there's something that's so different about you, but you can't quite put your finger on it and there's something that's eating away at you that you want to do everything that you can to impress and be the best that you can be so you don't feel too different and alone. I also had it in the back of my head: what happens if diving goes completely wrong and I break my leg or I break my back and I can't dive anymore? I need to have something to fall back on.

Presenter15:43

I'm very interested in the idea of you sensing something different about yourself and thinking, right, okay, I need to get everything else right so that there's no chink in the armor, there's no kind of vulnerability that is visible there.

Tom Daley15:53

So that there's

Tom Daley15:57

It's visible there. Yeah, exactly. Because, you know, as I was growing up, you know, I just figured that everybody, you know, liked everyone. Going through primary school, you know, boys would hang out with boys, girls would hang out with girls. I didn't realize that it wasn't socially acceptable, if you like, to, you know, like boys and girls. And it was a weird period of time for me. It wasn't until I went to secondary school that I started to realize, and oh, not everyone else is like me. And why am I different? Does that person think the same that I do, but is just better at hiding it or not showing it? And you feel less than. And I think, you know, to this day, those feelings of feeling less than and feeling different have been the real things that have given me the power and strength to be able to succeed in the other things that I've done because you want to prove that you're not less than and you want to prove that you are something and you are someone and that I'm not going to disappoint everyone when they eventually were to learn my truth.

Presenter16:59

Job done there, I think. Tell me about your next disc, Tom.

Tom Daley17:03

So my next disc is it's quite a bit of a funny story. Well, I think it's funny. It was after the first national championships that I'd won and I had beaten people that were eight years, ten, twelve years older than me. And we were on our way home and this particular song came on and one lyric, dry your eyes, mate, came on in the car and my dad... burst out laughing, thinking it was absolutely hilarious, thinking about all of the older people that I had beaten and if they were crying. And we had this whole private joke about, you know, dry your eyes, mate, it'll be alright. Don't worry. It's only someone 10 years younger than you just beaten you. Yeah. And that song then forever resonated with those moments with my dad where we had won.

Speaker 217:48

Dry your eyes made, I know it's hard to take, but her mind has been made up.

Speaker 217:56

Plenty more fish in the sea

Speaker 218:00

Dry your ice make

Speaker 218:02

I know you want to m

Speaker 218:08

To walk away now, it's over So then I move my hand up from down by my side Shaking, my life is crashing before my eyes Turn the palm of my hand up to face the skies Touch the bottom of her chin and let out a sigh

Presenter18:24

The streets with dry your eyes. Tom Daly, in two thousand six, aged twelve, at an international competition in Aachen in Germany, you'd completed two of your three dives from the ten metre board, but on the way up the stairs to your third you froze. What happened?

Tom Daley18:39

Uh

Tom Daley18:40

I had learned lots of new dives, and I had pushed myself to learn some of the hardest dives in the world at an age that was probably six or seven years younger than what I should have been doing. And there was a couple of times in that period, because at 12 years old is when you start growing. And I started to grow, and all of my arms and my legs are starting to grow in weird ways. And like when I was getting into my tuck shapes and things like that, my legs wouldn't be where they used to be. The center of gravity is changing. Yeah, like my whole spatial awareness was thrown off. And in the build-up to that competition, there was a couple of moments where I went completely wrong, landed flat, hit the board. And I just got to a point where I was just so terrified and so freaked out. And I was going up to the board, and I just like, I can't do it. There's no way that I can actually make myself jump from this board. And I come down, and my coach at the time wasn't there. So it was the high-performance director. And I went to him, I was like, I can't do it. And I was crying. And I think they thought that I was just being dramatic. So he was like, well, if you're going to pull out, you have to pull out yourself. And in this pool, I had to go up to the recorder's table and they were like, and representing Great Britain, Thomas Daly. And I went up to the recorder's table just crying. And I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. And they pulled me out of the competition. And I remember like walking over and going up to the stands where my dad was and my mum and just sitting there like crying. And he was like, don't worry, it's okay. There's going to be more competitions. You're absolutely fine. It's all good. But little did I know that, you know, my dad had recently been given his cancer diagnosis just before going over to that competition. And yeah, that was where.

Presenter19:12

Yeah.

Presenter19:13

Yeah.

Tom Daley20:27

The beginning of a very tough five years in my life.

Presenter20:32

How much did you understand about what was going on with your dad at the time? Because you were just twelve.

Tom Daley20:37

I had no idea what was going on with my dad, if I'm being completely honest. When we got home from that competition, it was like, oh, Tom, I'm doing a charity thing down the pub. I'm going to shave my head for charity. And I was like, oh, that's what you doing? You can't shave off all your hair. That's crazy. But okay, this is something my dad would do, something nuts. And remember, he shaved his head and I thought he looked hilarious and like an egg. And I was like, oh my goodness, this is funny, but whatever. And then one day, my dad didn't come home from work. And my mum sat me, William, and Ben, my brothers, down, and was like, We're going to go and visit your dad now. And I was like, what do you mean visit my dad? Like, you know, he's going to come home from work, surely. Like, where is he? And then my mum explained that he was poorly. Didn't tell us exactly what, but I remember walking into the hospital and seeing my dad in a hospital bed with these massive big bandages around his head and looking really sick. And I was like, wait, I saw him yesterday. He just shaved his head for chat. Like, what's going on? And, you know, I was old enough to start putting things together of like, okay, we're on a cancer ward. I was like, but my dad doesn't have cancer. Like, well, that's really like, what? And I remember speaking to my grandma about it, and I was like, does my dad have cancer? And she didn't know what to say. She cried. And then that was an answer enough. And later on, I started asking the questions. And it turned out he had had a brain tumor the size of a fist removed from his brain. And, you know, then it was the whole journey afterwards of recovering, the chemotherapy, the radiotherapy, and the five years that were to come afterwards.

Presenter22:31

And you were, of course, still in competitions, still training and diving very hard. At just thirteen, you qualified for the two thousand eight Beijing Olympics. That is an adult sized achievement, but one experienced by a child. How do you remember it?

Tom Daley22:33

And you dog.

Tom Daley22:41

But one

Tom Daley22:45

Now, looking back, qualifying for those Olympic Games, you know, they say things happen for a reason. But if I hadn't have gone to those Olympic Games in Beijing, my dad never would have seen me compete at an Olympic Games because he passed away before the London Olympics. So it was, again, one of those moments when I'd qualified that I remember looking up into the crowd. And whenever I would compete, my dad would have this big Union Jack flag. You would just know exactly where he was at any moment. And he'd come over to Beijing and he was bursting with pride and so excited about the fact that his little boy had, you know, we had achieved our dream, you know, four years earlier than I ever thought that I was going to be able to get there. I was going to go to the Olympics.

Presenter23:28

Tom Daly, it's time for your fourth. Tell me about this disc.

Tom Daley23:32

Well, this song in particular really is something that I had on so many different road trips on the way to training competitions that my dad would always play. And it really does remind me of the World Championships in 2009. It was a song that my dad said, one day you will win a World Championship or an Olympic Games and you'll be on top of the world.

Speaker 223:56

Everything I want the world to be

Speaker 224:00

He is

Presenter24:00

Now coming true especially for me And the re

Speaker 124:06

He said it's clear, it's because you are here. You're the nearest thing to heaven that I've seen. I'm on the top of the road.

Speaker 124:19

Down on creation and the only ex

Presenter24:22

Explanation I can

Presenter24:25

That was the Carpenters with Top of the World, reminding you Tom Daly of when you became world champion in 2009.

Presenter24:33

It's very interesting to watch footage of you and your dad together, which I've done in the build up to this, because while you can see the relationship between you and how incredibly close you obviously were, you were also very different.

Tom Daley24:45

Yeah, we were very different, and I think that was where we were able to balance each other out. I would, you know, overanalyse things and be worried about things, and my dad would be able to rationalize things and make it seem like it was no big deal. And the way his outlook on life, and especially since his cancer diagnosis, I think he just decided that, you know, what life's short, and I'm just going to live my life, be me, and I don't care what anyone else thinks about me as long as my family and friends love me. And after the 2009 World Championships, when we went into the press conference, my dad, like, I don't know how the security managed to allow him in, but he got in pretending to be a journalist to ask a question. And his question was if he could have a cuddle. And I remember I felt like I was dying inside. I was like, oh my goodness, my dad's come in. He's crying. It was embarrassing. But now, looking back on it, I can't even imagine what it would be like to have your son.

Tom Daley25:45

compete in such a high level and, you know, be going through what he was going through with his health. And, you know, those lessons of like not worrying about what anyone else their opinion of you and just being you is something that is such a valuable lesson.

Presenter25:59

Your dad had gone into remission after his operation and treatment in two thousand six, but in twenty eleven another tumor was found, and this time treatment wasn't possible. And he passed away when he was just forty. I mean, so young. A heartbreaking experience. How did you cope with it?

Tom Daley26:18

I mean, it was a horrible moment in my life. I was in Fort Lauderdale, and I got a phone call from my mum saying, Tom, we're going to have to fly you home. And I was like, what do you mean, fly me home? Dad's not very well. I was like, yeah, I know dad's not very well, but I'm going to be home in a couple of weeks. And then it was that moment of realization, like, oh, this is that phone call. And then I get home and I see my dad in a hospital bed in the living room. He hadn't even been, you know, conscious for, I don't know, I think it was 24 hours. He hadn't been conscious for. And I walked into the room and I said, Hi, Dad, it's me. I'm home. And for the first time in 24 hours, he opened his eyes, raised his fist into the air, and was happy as anything to see me. And I remember it was just before my 17th birthday, and I was sitting with him. Then all of a sudden, he would have a good day where he'd be awake and everything would be great. And then I thought, oh my God, he's going to get better. He's going to get through this. Because I was like, my dad's not going to die. He's invincible. He didn't think he was going to die. And I remember sitting next to him every day practicing for my driving theory test. And he would sit there and help me and like grunt, nod, you know, whenever he could. And as the days went by, his condition started to deteriorate. And, you know, family and friends were always around and always coming by. And, you know, I remember one of the last things he said to me was, Do we have our tickets yet? And I was like, tickets for what? And he was like, oh, the London 2012 tickets, because I want to be right on the front row. And I was like, oh, my goodness. Like, I didn't know how to say to him, like, I don't think.

Tom Daley28:14

I couldn't say to him, you're not going to be around to be on the front row, Dad. And.

Tom Daley28:20

I think it was the next day all of our family and friends were around and he had gone unconscious and I was holding his hand and, you know, we were watching his chest, making sure he was still breathing. And then, you know, I was holding his hand as his as he stopped breathing.

Tom Daley28:39

And

Tom Daley28:40

That it wasn't until he had actually stopped breathing and that he was dead that I finally.

Tom Daley28:48

Acknowledge that

Tom Daley28:50

He wasn't invincible, and life is so fragile.

Tom Daley28:54

And he wasn't going to be there to teach me to drive, to go for my first pint at the pub, to be able to watch me win an Olympic medal, to see me get married, to see me have a kid, like all those things. I mean, 40 years old is such a young age to die. And he had so much more to do. He had so much more to see for all of us of his kids. I was 17, my brother was 15, and my younger brother was 12. You know, that's such a young age to lose a parent. And yeah, like my world felt like it had come crashing down. And I wasn't, you know, it was a big, big adjustment to not have your biggest cheerleader with you anymore.

Presenter29:40

Tom Daly, let's have some music. Tell me about your next disc.

Tom Daley29:42

Your next disc? Well, my next disc is a song that I remember growing up. It would be a song that would help me get to sleep or it would be a song that my dad would play if I needed to calm down. And I think it's something that is still now, something that I use with my son Robbie, and it is a peaceful, easy feeling.

Speaker 230:07

I wanna sleep with you in the desert tonight.

Speaker 230:14

With a billion stars all around

Speaker 230:19

Cause I got a peaceful, easy feeling

Speaker 230:27

Then I know you won't let me down

Speaker 230:33

Cause I'm all within standing.

Presenter30:40

On the ground

Presenter30:42

The Eagles peaceful, easy feeling. Tom Daly, eighteen months after losing your dad, you were achieving the dream that you and he had nursed all of those years competing in the London twenty twelve Olympics, and you run bronze, an amazing achievement, especially given everything that you've been through. What was going through your mind at that moment?

Presenter31:02

Yeah.

Tom Daley31:02

Yeah.

Presenter31:02

Two

Tom Daley31:02

It was a crazy experience going into London 2012. The pressure, the expectation, the fact that it was a home crowd, thousands of people watching in the audience, millions at home. And I just remember going into that last round of dives, walking to the end of the platform, looking down at the bottom of the pool, seeing the Olympic rings and seeing London 2012 and thinking, this is everything that I have. dreamed of, everything I have worked towards from when I was a boy age nine, had drawn a picture of me doing a handstand with London 2012 Olympic rings before it was even announced as the host nation. And I just knew that this is what I had dreamt of my whole life. And I remember hitting the water after that dive.

Tom Daley31:51

And I felt like I could have been like a dolphin that had come out of the pool and like done a flip. I was so there was so much adrenaline and excitement because I knew I had done enough to get a medal. And I remember running out of the pool and then going to my coach and just going to see my teammates. And it was an amazing euphoric sensation. And when it was confirmed that I had won a medal and my teammates all picked me up and we all were in the pool and my performance director jumped in with his phone and it was a, yeah, it was a great night.

Presenter32:19

Everybody just losing their mind. So watching that footage back is just, oh, yeah, it's wonderful.

Tom Daley32:20

So the way I'm watching that flips back is just

Presenter32:24

A year later there was more happy news for you. Your relationship began with your husband, Dustin Lance Black, the Oscar winning screenwriter of the film Milk. It's interesting because you come from quite different worlds. I mean Lance he's twenty years older than you, you know. I mean how different was his world to the one that you'd been used to up till then. Plymouth to LA is quite a jump isn't it?

Tom Daley32:39

Yeah.

Tom Daley32:43

Yeah, I mean

Tom Daley32:46

Yeah, it's true. And, you know, I've learned a lot from Lance and Lance has learnt a lot from me. But for starters, I never actually knew how old Lance was until a couple of months into our relationship because it's not something that I noticed. I never thought that I was ever going to fall in love with a man. That was something that caught me by surprise. And I just won an Olympic bronze medal. And the month afterwards, I was really sad about it. You know, didn't know if I wanted to dive anymore. I felt like I'd lost all purpose, like there was no end goal anymore. And also with losing my dad, there was that trauma that I'd been through too. And Lance had been through a similar thing, winning an Oscar and then having the downward slump that comes after it. And also, he had recently lost his brother in a very similar fashion to how I lost my dad. So we just connected. I just felt safe. I felt happy. I felt comfortable. And something just clicked and felt right. I just knew. And I think, you know, when you go through so much at such a young age, it's hard to find another, you know, 18, 19-year-old that has achieved the highs, experienced the lows, travel, and all those things. So that was where I think Lance and I really connected.

Presenter34:02

So you're teaching him new things, he's teaching you new things, are you developing new interests? I know that you were sketched by David Hockney not long ago.

Tom Daley34:10

Yes, I mean there's been lots of different things. It's been wild since then. I did a photography project at school and David Hockney was one of the people that I researched and looked up to. And one of Lance's friends is an art dealer and knows David very well. And David invited us up for lunch one day and said in passing, oh, one day I'm going to draw you. And I was like, okay, yeah, cool. Thinking he says that to everyone. And then, you know, came along after our wedding while we were on our honeymoon. He was like, do you want to do it? I was like, okay, fine. Turn up and Lance says, oh, I'll be back in a little bit. And when Lance comes back, when he walked into the room, he sees David Hockney, you know, sketching me and then hanging off the easel on my underwear.

Tom Daley34:57

He is drawing me nude and Lance's like, oh, wow, okay. David, I leave you here for a couple of hours and you've already got my husband undressed. But, you know, and David Hockney says that's how he wants to draw you, you do it. So, yeah, that was definitely an experience.

Speaker 234:57

Uh

Speaker 134:57

Here

Speaker 234:57

It's join

Speaker 134:58

Uh

Presenter35:14

Time for some music, Tom Daly. Tell me about your sixth disc.

Tom Daley35:17

Well, my next disc is a song that we knew is going to be our wedding song. We had a string quartet play while we were walking down the aisle, and also it was our very first dance.

Presenter35:31

How long will I love you?

Presenter35:35

Only stars above you

Presenter35:41

And longer if I can.

Presenter35:46

How long will I need you?

Presenter35:50

As long as the seasons need to.

Speaker 135:50

As long as

Presenter35:55

Follow that plan.

Presenter36:00

How long will I be with you?

Presenter36:04

Long as the sea is bound to

Presenter36:07

Ellie Goulding, how long will I love you?

Presenter36:11

Tom Daly, the press interest in you has been unremitting since your teens, and you have had to do your growing up very much in public. You do share a great deal of your life on your YouTube channel. What do you say to people who might accuse you of oversharing?

Tom Daley36:27

I think there's, yeah, lots of people might think that I overshare, but I don't think about social media in a way that, oh, I need to do this, I need to do that. I post things that I'm thinking, feeling, and things I think would be cool, and things that I'd love to share with my friends and family. And, you know, that's something that we've been very conscious about making a decision of, you know, privacy around our son. But, you know, at the same time, we wanted to shine light on the fact that we are a family. I think that's been the biggest thing that has ruffled feathers is the fact that Lance and I are now parents.

Presenter36:59

You chose to go down the route of commercial surrogacy in order to become parents, and some people do have difficulty with that idea. How do you respond to that criticism?

Tom Daley37:08

Yeah, there's people that don't necessarily get it. There's so many children around the world that need adopting. Why didn't you adopt? And then you ask the question to any couple that are able to have kids naturally, like, why don't they adopt? There's plenty of kids in the world that need adopting. And there's something special about having a biological connection to your child. And, you know, we've always just wanted a family more than anything in the whole world. And again, with surrogacy, lots of people think it's just for same-sex couples. And actually, like, 70% or more is straight couples that have had some kind of illness or fertility issues, and they need someone to help them create their family. And, you know, we love our surrogate more than anything in the whole world. She's so great. And we're, you know, we are in contact with her, you know, nearly every day. And she will be a part of Robbie's life because we believe that honesty and transparency about the whole process is very important.

Presenter38:12

You do have a very prominent public profile, and in April this year, at the Australia Games, you appealed to Commonwealth countries to decriminalize homosexuality. There are thirty seven where it's illegal. What made you decide to do that?

Presenter38:25

You know

Tom Daley38:25

I just felt so lucky to have just won the Commonwealth Games with my synchro partner Dan. And I was sat having lunch with my husband, my mum, and my grandparents.

Tom Daley38:37

You know, everyone was just celebrating the fact that we'd just won. And there was no worry, no fear about going back to the UK and getting thrown in prison or getting, you know, some countries with death sentences. And I think, you know, being able to just truly be me and truly be who I am, standing on that diving board with that fear of ramifications of what might happen.

Tom Daley39:04

living openly as I am.

Tom Daley39:07

I just felt so lucky and I was like, I can't believe the amount of countries that still criminalize LGBT people for being who they are. Lots of people that aren't LGB or T or Q don't understand what it's like to be born this way. You know, lots of people think it's a lifestyle choice. And it's not a lifestyle choice because if you were to choose, you would choose the easy route of not being different. You don't want to stand out like that. Whereas I love who I love and there's lots of people around the world that love who they love. And, you know, at the end of the day, love is love. And being able to share personal stories is a way to be able to change people's hearts. And I think if you can change people's hearts about an issue, that's how you can start changing people's minds and the way that they think about it.

Presenter40:01

I think that we expect a lot of our sports stars. We expect them to be diplomatic, to shrug off criticism, to assess their victories and defeats quite dispassionately.

Presenter40:10

And this is something that you can do, and then you're choosing to go further and talk about your personal life.

Presenter40:16

How difficult has it been to develop the ability to do that and to communicate in that way?

Tom Daley40:22

Yeah, it can be difficult because you know that there's lots of people that are going to criticize everything or anything that you do. But I just want to be able to help leave behind some kind of because, for example, you know, I've competed in Russia and on the podium had like a rainbow pin badge on my tracksuit. And because there's lots of people in lots of countries that are growing up feeling different, feeling less than, feeling like an outsider. And feeling like an outsider can be dangerous. And I think being able to give

Tom Daley40:56

A kid that sees someone on the screen living openly as who they are and knowing that people are respectful and like happy and

Tom Daley41:06

like there is hope that people will get through it and people will be able to live life openly and happily and they won't feel the way they feel forever, I think is something that is quite powerful to be able to do.

Presenter41:22

Time for some more music, Tom. Tell me about this next disc.

Tom Daley41:26

My next song is a song that I remember from when I was a kid. It's something that my dad would sing to me. And every night um while I'm rocking Robbie to sleep, and it is a song that I definitely sing because he is he's my little angel.

Speaker 241:41

Girl, you're my angel. You're

Tom Daley41:44

My darling angel

Speaker 241:47

Uh

Tom Daley41:47

Closer than m

Speaker 241:49

My pips you are to me Baby Shorty you're my angel You're my darling Yeah.

Speaker 141:59

Uh

Speaker 241:59

Good.

Speaker 142:00

You're my friend when I'm in need

Speaker 142:05

Life is one big party when you're still young But who's gonna have your back when it's all done? It's all good when you little up here fun Can't be a fool, son, what about the long run? Looking back shot to all we are

Presenter42:18

Shaggy featuring Rayvon, Angel.

Presenter42:21

Tom Daly, you are now a dad. Yes. It's almost a cliche to ask how it's changed your perspective, but can't really avoid it because it just does, I think.

Tom Daley42:23

Yeah.

Tom Daley42:29

Yeah, it's been the most amazing magical experience. And every day I feel so incredibly lucky to wake up and see our little Robbie Ray in his little bed and he's just the cutest little thing. Going to training, I want to make sure that I do everything I can to make the most of every single second that I'm away from him because I want to make sure that I'm doing the best that I can do. You know, because if I'm going to be away from him, I want to make sure it's damn worth it. So then when I get home, I can be completely distracted away from diving because he's going to be there and he's going to be screaming, pooping, and you know, all of the above.

Presenter43:06

Robbie's named after your dad, isn't he? I wanna know how your mum's getting on though. How's Debbie enjoying being a grandmother?

Tom Daley43:08

They wanna know how

Tom Daley43:11

My mum, Nana Debs, absolutely, she's the Nana.

Presenter43:16

So she's Nana, because that's a key decision going into the process. She knew she wanted to be Nana.

Tom Daley43:18

Yeah.

Tom Daley43:19

She knew she wanted to be Nana. Yeah, she didn't want to be grandma, she wanted to be Nana Debs. So she comes all the way up from Plymouth, bless her. And she's even bought a little toiletry bag and her own toothbrush. So she's basically moving in on the weekends.

Presenter43:32

It's just gonna say, gradually.

Tom Daley43:33

That's good.

Presenter43:35

And you're at the grand old age of twenty-four now, preparing for your fourth Olympic Games in Tokyo. What's your definition of success going into that challenge?

Tom Daley43:37

Prepare

Tom Daley43:43

I think now my whole perspective on Tokyo has changed. If you know, if you had asked me last year, it was all about, I need to win a gold medal, this is the most important thing. And you know what?

Tom Daley43:54

There are bigger things than Olympic gold medals. My Olympic gold medal is Robbie.

Presenter43:59

What advice would you give to young people who watch you dive about what they need to do to be successful, what it takes?

Tom Daley44:07

I think one if I could give my younger self a piece of advice, so for also I think it would be useful for anyone in any field is pay attention to the smallest details. And you know, for me in diving, it's there's little things like I used to be really scruffy when I was little and I didn't point my feet as much as I should have. And now as I get older, I realize I need to learn to point my feet if I'm going to get the nine and a half and tens. And those little things, if I focus on the details when I was younger, it would make the me now as the granddad of diving slightly easier.

Tom Daley44:37

Yeah.

Presenter44:38

All right then, Grandad, let's have some more music. What what are you going to play us next?

Tom Daley44:42

This song instantly takes me back to London twenty twelve. You can imagine this song blasting in my earphones and the adrenaline high that I was going through when I was walking out onto Poolside for the men's Tenmetre final in the London twenty twelve Olympic Games.

Speaker 145:30

Oh, sometimes I get a gut feeling.

Speaker 145:35

Yeah.

Speaker 245:35

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 245:38

You don't feel like I never know but hey

Presenter45:42

Avici and Levels. So Tom Daly, it's nearly time for you to set sail to your island. What do you think would be the biggest challenge for you there?

Tom Daley45:50

Oh, gosh. Um, I am a very social person, so being there on my own, I think, will be the biggest struggle because I love having people around. I do a Monday night dinner club where I cook for twelve to sixteen people every week. So for me, I would definitely miss just having people around.

Presenter46:08

You don't go empty handed, of course. All castaways will find the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare waiting for them, and you can choose another book to take with you. What will yours be?

Tom Daley46:18

Well, the book that I probably have the most memories and I feel like is the biggest achievement for me was that the first proper book I'd say that I read was Harry Potter. The first Harry Potter. I remember reading it with my grandma and with my mum and with my dad and there was like a real group effort to get me through this book and then from then on I was just like a massive Harry Potter fan.

Presenter46:38

So Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

Tom Daley46:40

Yeah, I wish I could take the full works, like the Shakespeare of J.K. Rono.

Presenter46:44

You had a little bit of identification with Harry Potter because of your scar on your forehead, I believe.

Tom Daley46:47

Yeah, I picked my head on the diving board twice, once on the front and once at the top. And I used to dress up for Halloween as Harry Potter when I was younger'cause I had my scar on my head, so I only needed to add an extra like little squiggle rather than doing the full scar.

Presenter47:00

So, you can do some light cosplay on the island while reading the book. Okay, okay, got it.

Tom Daley47:04

Absolutely.

Tom Daley47:06

Uh

Presenter47:06

You can also take a luxury. What's yours going to be?

Tom Daley47:08

Well, I would like to say I'd like take my whole kitchen, including all cookware, but we can't do that. That's a little bit too much.

Presenter47:14

That's a little bit

Presenter47:15

I mean, I'm new to this. It's my first day. I've really got to stick to the rules. I think a full kitchen is a stretch. Yes. If I had my.

Tom Daley47:18

Yeah.

Tom Daley47:21

Yeah.

Tom Daley47:22

Oven with the hobs and the cooker itself, then we're good.

Presenter47:27

Okay, I can do you, Narvan.

Tom Daley47:28

Okay, great. Well we'll do an oven.

Presenter47:30

And this may be the hardest part. I'm going to have to ask you which of the eight disks you would choose if you could keep only one.

Tom Daley47:38

That's a tough one. I do think How Long Will I Love You will still be one of the happiest memories of a wedding day, so I think I'd have to take that one.

Presenter47:48

Tom Daly, thank you very much for sharing your desert island discs with us. Thank you.

Presenter48:12

It was great having Tom Daly as my first castaway, and he's actually the first diver to be sent to our desert island. There are lots of Olympians and Paralympians in the Desert Island Disc Back catalogue though. Kirstie interviewed ice skaters James Torville and Christopher Dean in 2014, American sprinter Michael Johnson in 2011 and athlete Denise Lewis in 2012. And the wheelchair racer Dame Tanny Gray Thompson was Sue Lawley's guest in 2001.

Presenter48:40

Swimmer Rebecca Adlington, like Tom, was a member of Team GB at the Beijing Olympics in 2008. Kirstie cast her away in 2015.

Presenter48:50

Yeah.

Tom Daley48:50

The youngest, as you say, of three sisters. I think that's quite an interesting place in the Pecking Order to be.

Tom Daley48:56

How was it for you?

Presenter48:57

It's one of those things that you can tell now that we're a little bit older, the different characteristic that we've all had from me being the youngest. I'm a little bit probably more laid back and a bit more carefree than my sisters. And my sisters are just, they're so protective. Whereas I think as the baby, you don't feel as protective and you're just kind of like, oh, yeah, they're my big sisters. They'll get through anything. And you kind of just have that attitude and it just makes you a bit more laid back. But they hated me beating them in swimming. We all swam. It was our family thing that we used to go to club together and we used to go at weekends and they just did not like me beating them. Are your parents sporty? Not at all. No, not at all. I'm so surprised. Yeah, no, they like watching sport, but they're not sporty people at all. We're a dead small town in Mansfield, but we were very lucky that in this tiny place, we haven't even got a hotel yet. We've got two swimming pools.

Speaker 249:33

No, not at all.

Speaker 149:33

Source

Speaker 149:34

Uh

Tom Daley49:45

The swimming pool was just round the corner. It was just a walk from your house.

Presenter49:47

Walk from your house

Tom Daley49:48

Was that why they took their three girls there?'Cause it was something to do and it was close by.

Presenter49:52

Something that you can do together as a family swimming. I think other sports, like you can't play rugby with them from three, can you? Or other sports, I think it's quite difficult for them to be active. And even when, like, my mum tried me with ballet and all that, but they couldn't get involved in that. And yet, on the weekends, mum and dad could get in the pool with us, and we could actually do it as a family and go together. I don't look back on my career and remember all the hard times. I remember times having splashing about pretending to be a mermaid with my mum and dad. Do you remember getting rid of your armbands and doing doggy paddle? Was that a moment? Remember being on holiday, and my mum says that was the most terrifying moment of her life that she was blowing up the armbands. And me being the baby, I think because you see your older sisters and they could fully swim, they were fine in the pool. My mum was blowing up the armbands that I just ran, not having any lessons, I just ran into the pool. Oh my goodness. And my uncle, who can't swim, he's terrified of water, jumped in the pool after me. And I ended up saving him at three. I was just like, I could float. I was, I was just doing it. And then after that, my mum was like, right, she's going into lessons. I just had no fear.

Speaker 150:35

Yeah.

Speaker 250:36

Uh

Speaker 150:43

Oh my goodness.

Speaker 150:52

You could just do it.

Presenter50:57

Rebecca Adlington. As ever, you can download all these programmes via your usual podcast provider and do please rate us. It really helps others find us. Next time, my guest will be the composer Thea Musgrave. I hope you're listening.

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Well, you are.

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