Baroness Newlove

Baroness Newlove0:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:03

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Welcome to Desert Island Discs, where every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, the book and the luxury item that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away on a desert island.

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For rights' reasons, the music on these podcast versions is shorter than in the original broadcast. You can find over two thousand more editions to listen to and download on the Desert Island Disc's website.

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My castaway to day is Baroness Newlove. She's the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. Her role? Well, to make sure that the criminal justice system, which so often in the past has seemed weighted in favour of the accused, no longer ignores the reality that, at the heart of every appalling crime, are the survivors whose innocent ordinary lives are left devastated and destroyed.

Presenter1:14

A passionate advocate, she speaks from personal experience.

Presenter1:17

In 2007 Gary Newlove, her husband and adored father of their three daughters, was brutally murdered by a gang of drunken, rowdy youngsters just yards from the family's front door. At the end of the trial my guest's heartfelt statement struck a chord across the nation and sparked an outpouring of support, propelling her into the public arena. She says whatever I'll go on to do, I'm still going through it. We've still lost Gary, and we're still going through the criminal justice system. And if there is anything I can do to make it better for the next person, I will. So welcome, Baroness Newlove.

Speaker 41:56

Thank you.

Presenter1:56

You're now in what your second term as Victims Commissioner, appointed in 2012.

Speaker 41:59

As victims

Presenter2:03

Um what changes

Presenter2:05

Have happened? What concrete things are different since you began campaigning and you began in your role?

Baroness Newlove2:10

I think once I began my roller, it was getting that voice for victims heard. We heard the line they're in the centre of the criminal justice system. They are not. The system isn't in favour of the victims, it's more about the rule of law and right to a fair trial, which I totally agree with. But at the same time, every victim I speak to, they just want somebody to listen. So, when my office picks up the phone or answer an email, they're absolutely flabbergasted. So, for me, compliance of the victims' code is very important.

Presenter2:40

What's just tell me a bit about the victims case?

Baroness Newlove2:41

The victims' code is what victims are entitled to from the criminal justice agencies, such as information, knowing when the court trial is going to be done, making a victim's personal statement, and it's very important that these entitlements should be followed. So that's why it's very important in this role to ensure that I look at the compliance of agencies doing that.

Presenter3:02

People who go through a crime or are on the receiving end of crime are themselves victims. They do have these people called family liaison officers from the police force. Surely they've always helped.

Baroness Newlove3:11

Yes, my family liaison officers, which you only get in in homicide cases, were my rocks, I have to say. And I appreciate it was a high profile case. And they helped my three daughters who were the witnesses. So for me, they've always been that advocate that I think everybody should have.

Presenter3:17

Yeah.

Presenter3:27

Sh

Baroness Newlove3:27

But not everybody gets that service, unfortunately, and we've got to ensure they do.

Presenter3:32

Mr President, how far do you think we've come then in the years that you've been campaigning for the justice for victims? I'm thinking now particularly when it comes to the preparation for potential release of people who've committed very serious crimes. At the moment, victims, as I understand it, have to apply for permission to attend parole hearings and then when they are there, if they are allowed to contribute, they can only read out prepared statements. Is that good enough?

Baroness Newlove4:01

Well, just recently there's been a huge case, War Boys, about victims, and they've had to crowdfund for the Supreme Court judgments.

Presenter4:08

And this is the man who was found guilty of late who wore a black taxi driver.

Baroness Newlove4:09

There was a black tax. And it's sad that the victims had to crowdfund for it on social media. But they've really changed the landscape. So for me, it has to be more open and transparent, which now is the this government has said they're going to do. And I'm still working with the Secretary of State for Justice.

Presenter4:28

So Helen, you love, time now for uh your music. It's a very very uplifting list.

Baroness Newlove4:33

Yes, the first one is The Commitments. I loved the movie and Gary and I both watched it and I have Irish family background and it's about working class and people with talents. It's just got the comedy and it's such an uplifting song when you hear him sing it, you know, he's got this really grainy voice. It's got everything.

Speaker 34:52

All you wanna do is ride and ride and tell it.

Baroness Newlove5:00

Uh Uh

Presenter5:00

Are you

Presenter5:01

Uh

Baroness Newlove5:03

Yeah.

Presenter5:03

I'm Sailor.

Presenter5:05

Uh

Baroness Newlove5:06

That's right.

Baroness Newlove5:08

All you wanna do is ride around Sally.

Baroness Newlove5:14

Tell me that.

Speaker 35:17

Uh

Baroness Newlove5:17

Uh

Speaker 35:17

Uh

Speaker 35:21

I'm gonna be wiping those we

Presenter5:29

Mustang Sally, Andrew Strong, and the Commitments from the original motion picture soundtrack. So, Helen, you love a little bit of family background then. You were born in Salford at the beginning of the sixties, nineteen sixty one, to Terence and Rose. Your memories as a little child in the family? What did did both your parents work? What did they do for a living?

Baroness Newlove5:48

Both of them worked, very hard working. My mum met my father when she was a cook, a housekeeper for a priest, and she carried that on right through her life of being a cook in a canteen. My father used to work with cloth make material in the old days, and then they both worked in the same company, which was car parts. So very working class and came from very humble beginnings. I have an older sister who's five years older, and they were really loving parents. When you were very young, you were ill, weren't you? I was. I was born with a hole in my lungs, so I was very, very poorly. I was in an oxygen tank, and it was very, very, you know, touch and go. What age was.

Presenter6:25

What age were you when that happened?

Baroness Newlove6:26

I think I was just under two.

Presenter6:29

Uh

Baroness Newlove6:29

Uh

Presenter6:29

Uh

Baroness Newlove6:29

And so the doctors had said that obviously sulphur was very damp as it was, so they suggested that perhaps we could move to clean air.

Presenter6:29

And so

Baroness Newlove6:37

So the doctor said, Well, about Sweden And um and my father told me this many, many times through my life and we went to Urlham instead and I said but why didn't we go to Sweden?

Presenter6:47

Which is how many miles up the road?

Baroness Newlove6:49

Oh yeah, I said, Dad, why did that go wrong? And he said, Blame your mother. Your mother didn't want to go and leave the family, so we I could have lived in Sweden.

Presenter6:52

Yeah.

Presenter6:53

Uh yeah.

Presenter6:57

So you were the second daughter, right?

Baroness Newlove6:58

I was, yes. My sister Marie is five years older.

Presenter7:03

And were you similar? Did you play together? Did you get on?

Baroness Newlove7:05

Well because w yeah, I mean, we're siblings rivalry as usual, but I have to say I do have to give her credit when I lost Gary, she was my rock and uh she really did give me the strength to carry on.

Presenter7:16

Let's have your second piece of music, Helen. You love it. Tell me about this. Why well, it sort of speaks for itself. Tell me a bit about it, Helen.

Baroness Newlove7:21

Speaks for itself.

Baroness Newlove7:23

Well, I have to say, Donny Osmond, yeah, he was my first idol.

Presenter7:27

But you have posters on the wall.

Baroness Newlove7:28

I did. So Puppy Love it just melts me even now. And I could see his smile. I was swooning. My sister actually liked the Osmonds as a group, but I actually loved Puppy Love and I still do.

Presenter7:40

Did you do that thing of kissing the poster? Yes, I did.

Baroness Newlove7:41

Yes, I did. I used to say goodnight and maybe, you know, you've not met me yet.

Presenter7:46

Nice.

Presenter7:48

And they called it Poppy Law.

Presenter7:55

Oh, I guess they'll never know.

Presenter8:02

How a young heart really feels.

Presenter8:09

And why I love her so

Presenter8:16

And they called it Puppy Law Just because we're in a

Baroness Newlove8:19

Bela

Presenter8:27

We are drowning in 70s nostalgia there, Helen Newlove. That was Donnie Osmond and Puppy Love.

Baroness Newlove8:30

You love that was Donny Osman then

Presenter8:33

Tell me a little bit about school. You went to a secondary modern in Eccles. How did you get on there?

Baroness Newlove8:37

I did. It was St Patrick's High School. I absolutely loved it. But as we hear about today, there was bullying because I wore glasses. And I wasn't one of the popular girls. I was very studious. But at the same time, when I was told I could take my glasses off, I cried at the optician. Take your glasses off? Yeah, I had an operation that made my eye better.

Baroness Newlove9:01

And he said, You no longer need to wear them. And I just broke down crying. And I said, I can't possibly, because it was like a shield.

Presenter9:06

Did you talk to anyone about the bullying?

Baroness Newlove9:08

No, in them days you didn't. You it was one of them, you know, chin up, get on with it. And as my daughter say today, it's twenty four seven in them days you you just waited for the weekend, you could get silence. And I and my mum and dad, it wasn't that they weren't interested. It was just something that you didn't bring home like you do today.

Presenter9:24

And you said you were studious. Um what were your favourite subjects?

Baroness Newlove9:26

Hmm.

Baroness Newlove9:28

I wanted to be an artist, so I absolutely loved art. I hated PE. I wanted to be an animator.

Baroness Newlove9:37

My reports were very good, but I remember one year which wasn't. I think it was my second year in high school. I dipped. And I do remember, you know, coming home my parents were absolutely mortified. And so I think I was grounded for a week.

Presenter9:50

You said a moment ago you had ambitions to be an animator. So did you when you went for your careers talk, I presume you went for a career's talk?

Baroness Newlove9:56

I dared, I remember them.

Presenter9:57

Did you tell the careers teacher?

Baroness Newlove9:59

I did, but that was well out of my league. I wasn't wealthy enough. I wasn't really clever enough. It was merely being a nursery nurse or an admin going looking job centres. It wasn't really that creative.

Presenter10:12

So what did you do then? You left school at sixteen and you went to work at what?

Baroness Newlove10:15

I left school at 16. I actually went on the dole, which was £10 in them days, which was a lot.

Presenter10:20

But you said that.

Baroness Newlove10:21

And looking for jobs. And my mum used to work in a chip shop at night and she got me working at lunchtime. I was very shy. So, of course, having to meet people coming in ordering fish and chips and mushy peas and salt and vinegar. So it took a lot. I don't know where it came from. But I did it because I respected my mother and father. You know, there was no ifs and buts in saying I don't want to do it.

Presenter10:41

Let's have some more music, uh Baroness New Love. Tell me about the third one, then. What are we gonna hear?

Baroness Newlove10:45

My third one is the Gap band Oops Upside Your Head. It reminds me of my next stage in life when I met Gary, and also, even now, looking down at the title, it reminds me of the fun side of Gary. He was very, very, very sociable. He loved music, he was a DJ himself. And if he went to a party and that was played, nobody could sit down. He would get everybody on that floor and would lead them.

Presenter11:12

Did he get them sitting down? Did he clean up the city?

Baroness Newlove11:13

He did, he knew all the actions and then you can't get them up. We're all struggling to get up. But actually, it was good fun at the time. So, this is really touching inside for me.

Presenter11:22

Have a little fun Stupid again forget a pill And now they got a son

Presenter11:32

Yeah.

Presenter11:33

Uh

Speaker 311:33

Side.

Speaker 311:34

Same.

Speaker 311:36

Science is

Speaker 311:38

Yeah.

Speaker 311:40

Up the slide your head, say oops up the side your head

Speaker 311:44

Save me.

Speaker 311:45

Such a situation.

Speaker 311:49

I can't believe that I wanna dance.

Speaker 311:53

No colour.

Speaker 311:56

James McGrew, watch out

Presenter11:59

That was the Gap band and Oops Upside Your Head. You said a funny thing during that, Helen You Love. You said that Gary used to take you on dates to what did he do on a Saturday?

Baroness Newlove12:06

On a Saturday we used to go to the record shop in Berry shopping precincts.

Presenter12:10

What an old romantic.

Baroness Newlove12:11

Oh, he really wooed me, didn't he?

Presenter12:13

Nineteen eighty two, then, when you met Garry. When you very first clapped eyes on him, what occurred to you?

Baroness Newlove12:19

His sense of humour actually I've never laughed so much in all my life. My jaws were aching.

Presenter12:25

And you were about twenty at the time.

Baroness Newlove12:27

I was twenty.

Presenter12:27

So where were you working by then?

Baroness Newlove12:29

I was working in the courts in Manchester. I was a copy typist at the time and then went on to be a committal court assistant, basically taking evidence down in courts for trials before they went to Crown Court.

Presenter12:43

So you married in 1986, you had your first daughter, Zoe, in 1989, then Danielle in 1992.

Presenter12:51

That same year something seismic happened within the family.

Baroness Newlove12:56

Yes, Gary had suffered from heartburn a lot and we'd been on holiday and got back. And I said, you know, you really are not well. You need to go and see a doctor. My mum was saying you need to get the doctor. He was very stubborn. And I eventually called the doctor out. And he was taken into hospital and diagnosed with stomach cancer.

Presenter13:14

And a very aggressive form of

Baroness Newlove13:15

Very aggressive, and they had to get a team together to do this operation. So it was a complete shock.

Presenter13:20

And of course he beat it, he survived.

Baroness Newlove13:22

He did. He had it. The operation was just under six hours. He was in intensive care for about four or five days. And actually, he heard somebody crying at the time. Gary wore glasses. And he said, Is that you crying? Is it bad news? And I'm saying, No, it's not me. He said, I want you to put your face to my face so I could test that you weren't crying. And I said, No, I'm not crying. It's not me. He was really a strong person. And to learn to eat again, he survived on two crackers a day. But he was back in work about seven months later. He was determined to go back and provide for his family.

Presenter13:58

Something really remarkable happened two years later that is pretty unusual. You had another baby.

Baroness Newlove14:03

Yes, in nineteen ninety four we had Amy, which was a complete surprise. You would have thought it was the first child, no disrespect to my other daughters, after what he'd been through. It was something really nice and warm.

Presenter14:15

Describe give me a sense of your family life at the time then, these three gorgeous little girls, a husband who's got through a very tough set of circumstances,

Baroness Newlove14:23

Yeah, we were like anybody a working class family. You know, we were very close. We went to the dentist, the doctors, the hairdressers together. Well, you went as a family together. Yeah, we went as a family, booked everything in together. He absolutely adored his daughters. His saying was, you know, when I come home, it's bath time, bedtime. On a Saturday, you get up every morning, turn the music on, really blasting to get them out of bed. But yeah, and the most thing he, you know, which really gets to me is that he was looking forward for them to growing up. And then he said, they're going to spoil me rotten. So, you know, he did adore his daughters. They were his life.

Presenter14:32

Some of the

Presenter14:58

Let's have some more music, Helen. We're going to listen to your fourth, another blast from the past, tell me about this.

Baroness Newlove15:04

Grease the movie. I saw it three or four times. And to see John Travolta and Eliven Newton-John sing at the end, you know, you're the one that I want. I just wanted to be Olivia Newton-John. Yes, it's never happened. Them leggings, that leather jacket, just that look in the fairground. Even though you can just watch it even today and you want to be here again.

Presenter15:16

Yeah.

Baroness Newlove15:26

And the f

Baroness Newlove15:29

With affection.

Baroness Newlove15:32

The Auto Shah!

Baroness Newlove15:34

Too great.

Baroness Newlove15:36

Meditate

Baroness Newlove15:38

My direction.

Baroness Newlove15:42

Anyway

Baroness Newlove15:45

Peter shit by

Baroness Newlove15:48

Won't you deep babe?

Baroness Newlove15:51

Uh Get you.

Presenter15:51

Even satisfied.

Presenter15:54

Friendship My

Presenter15:57

Fuck them through.

Presenter16:00

My faith is justified. If I show down deep inside, you're the one that owns your mother.

Presenter16:10

John Travolta and Olivia Newton John, you're the one that I want from the original film soundtrack of Greece. It was June two thousand four, I think, Helen New Love, when you moved your family to Fernhead in Warrington. Just give me an idea of what it was like living there. What sort of place was it?

Baroness Newlove16:25

We moved to Fernhead because my mum and dad lived round the corner, so to speak. They were great neighbours where we lived. We had barbecues. Everybody knew everybody, so it was a good community spirit. You know, the sad thing was that there was a lot of antisocial behaviour started to come through after a couple of years, and that was the worry about where we lived.

Presenter16:44

And you were conscious of it escalating, appearing to get worse over the months?

Baroness Newlove16:47

Yes. You know, when you work hard and you've got a nice car and a garden, when people urinate or throw cams or damage your car, it it gets very, very wearing. So.

Baroness Newlove16:56

There was a community club set up to go and speak about this with the police, and I went with my neighbour and Gary stayed at home with the girls. Everybody was absolutely tired, and at that time, the police, you know, it was just a whiteboard. What's really irritating you? And I think the pinnacle of it all was when they'd set a fence on fire, these young people, and the fire service were inside this meeting. So when Eric and I, my neighbour, we walked back.

Baroness Newlove17:22

I said, you know, nothing will be happening until somebody is murdered and then we'll get everybody. Little did I know that this would be my husband Gary.

Presenter17:30

So it was um the middle of August, tenth of August, a Friday in two thousand seven, and as I was describing in the introduction, Gary went outside to check on what was happening. There was a bit of noise, a bit of disruption outside your house. There was a group of, as I understand it, fifteen youths who attacked your husband very viciously.

Presenter17:49

All of your three daughters witnessed that attack. Your husband was taken to hospital extremely badly injured in a very bad uh way. And two days later, you were told by the medics who had done their very best to take care of him that there was absolutely no hope of him recovering and the decision was left with you to switch off the life support machine.

Presenter18:11

Absolutely brutal facts and and as you say

Presenter18:14

You're living your life, you're a family getting on with things, life's pretty good.

Presenter18:19

Challenges here and there.

Presenter18:21

In the immediate aftermath of that seismic shock that exploded in the middle of your family life.

Presenter18:28

How did you how did you cope in the weeks and months right after?

Baroness Newlove18:33

It still feels very surreal. It still feels a blur. I call it my La La Land. There were so many people coming in and out of the house.

Baroness Newlove18:41

And I was on sleeping tablets because it was just as if this wasn't happening.

Baroness Newlove18:47

It was just had no feeling, no attachment. My emotions are completely shut down.

Presenter18:54

And your daughter's also being at the centre of the investigation.

Presenter18:57

I imagine you must have wanted only to bring them close.

Baroness Newlove19:02

Yes, you know they were twelve, fifteen, and eighteen.

Presenter19:04

Right.

Baroness Newlove19:04

And having to

Baroness Newlove19:07

Take them to the hospital to see their father for one last time.

Baroness Newlove19:12

And knowing what they saw.

Baroness Newlove19:15

You want to be a mum, you want to get everything right, and you want to take the pain away. And so then having to.

Baroness Newlove19:21

To listen to his heart stop beating.

Baroness Newlove19:24

Um will never ever

Baroness Newlove19:27

leave me. But then

Baroness Newlove19:29

Having to go home and look at my three daughters sitting on the sofa.

Baroness Newlove19:35

and having to tell them their Dad is not gonna come home again.

Baroness Newlove19:39

Um the girls were just they were besides themselves in a sense, and yet they had to go and do interviews, and that's why I call them my heroines today, because to have to work on your father on the ground, to pull his tongue out because he was choking on his blood.

Presenter19:55

This is one of your daughters' mindset.

Baroness Newlove19:56

This is Zoe and Danielle and Zoe's boyfriend to have to do CPR. I don't know how you ever get over that.

Baroness Newlove20:05

And

Baroness Newlove20:06

And to you know, to feel their teardrops and their what they'd been through is and I just can't put into words and it never leaves you.

Presenter20:16

To have some music, Helen. Let's do that. We're going to listen to your fifth track. Just tell me a bit about why it's on your list.

Baroness Newlove20:24

You know, I was with Gary for twenty-five years and for him not to be around

Baroness Newlove20:31

This makes me upbeat, think about them times. This is the real thing and you to me are everything. I used to sing this in the car'cause it's the only words I can remember of a song. I used to drive the girls the notes

Baroness Newlove20:46

Though you're close to me, we seem so far apart Uh

Baroness Newlove20:50

Uh

Presenter20:50

Maybe given time you have a change of heart

Presenter20:55

If it takes forever to go, then I'm prepared to wait.

Presenter21:00

The day you give your love to me won't be a day too late. For you to me are everything The sweetest song that I can sing or late

Presenter21:11

Oh baby

Speaker 321:14

To you I guess I'm just the clown who picks you up each time you down all day.

Speaker 321:21

Oh please

Presenter21:24

You to me are everything. That was the real thing. So, Helen, it was three months after your husband Gary was killed that five young men were put on trial. Three would be convicted a nineteen year old, a seventeen year old, a sixteen year old.

Presenter21:40

You had gone through every single painful day of that trial.

Presenter21:45

How do you think the legal system treated you and your family at the time?

Baroness Newlove21:50

Without the family liaison officers who were there from day one in fact, they were there at the hospital when they said they'd arrested so many people.

Baroness Newlove22:00

I think without them, I would have thought the criminal justice system is appalling for victims and families. I used to work in courtrooms and

Baroness Newlove22:11

I had the utmost respect, so I didn't expect to feel like I did all them ten weeks.

Presenter22:17

Your daughters were were witnesses. They had to be in the same spaces as the people who were accused. And one of your biggest campaigning issues, and something that struck you at the time, was that these rules that were there for your family did not equally apply to the defendants.

Baroness Newlove22:35

No, that's the whole point of all this. You are shown round a courtroom to have a look at what the spaces are like. Told at that time that there is no family rooms, and we spent ten weeks moving from one room to the other, and the toilets are all the same.

Presenter22:51

So you could bump into anybody who was involved in this horrific crime.

Baroness Newlove22:53

You could walk into anybody and the courtroom we were in had one door for entry and exit.

Presenter22:59

So three of the five accused were convicted of your husband Gary's murder. That was in January of 2008. They were given life sentences with minimum terms of seventeen, fifteen and twelve years. There was a police press conference the following day and you spoke about the impact of Gary's murder on you and your family. You spoke very eloquently, you spoke very passionately, you talked about parents should take more responsibility for their children, you were talking about the fact that alcohol was a very big issue and that people, not just parents but communities, had to take a stand against young people in that culture of drinking far too much.

Presenter23:40

The immediate response from the public on hearing you then was what?

Baroness Newlove23:44

Well, I have to say I was saying it, but didn't really recognize who I was saying it to. I'd sat for ten weeks and I couldn't say anything. And this was really for Gary.

Presenter23:48

Right.

Baroness Newlove23:53

I he wasn't a murder victim, he was Gary and my daughters would be watching. And the next day on Sky News, they were talking about gang violence. They had an American person who was in gangs and was trying to re-educate people. And it asked you to email in.

Presenter24:08

Yeah.

Baroness Newlove24:10

And my sister said, why don't you email in and just say, you know, I totally agree with him, which I did. And it became breaking news. And so.

Presenter24:17

Your email.

Baroness Newlove24:18

My email. The strap was the widow of Gary Newlove, and then Cheshire Police Communications Jackie Hanson.

Presenter24:18

Along the strap along the bottom.

Baroness Newlove24:26

who was brilliant at helping me, said, What have you done? And I got thousands of letters from people. So I had fantastic support from everybody.

Presenter24:36

So you found yourself articulating

Presenter24:39

The voices of lots of people who, up until then, felt that nobody was really telling it like they felt it. Would that be fair?

Baroness Newlove24:46

Yes, I think it is fairer and I'm very honored to do that. But as a parent, I think you have a duty to show your children that you're accountable and responsible. And so that's where I came from. You have to have rules and regulations to give them a safe future.

Presenter25:03

Let's have some more music, Baroness Nulova. Tell me about this next one. It is your sixth of the day.

Baroness Newlove25:09

It's another wonderful movie, Dirty Dancing, where you can get lost. It's romantic. I absolutely love it. Patrick Swayze, God rest his soul, he just had it and I think every woman would love to be whisked off and lifted up in the air. I could break so many backs today, but yes, I would love to Patrick Swayze to lift me up in the air.

Speaker 325:29

So we take each other's hand, cause we seem to understand the eternity

Presenter25:37

Just remember

Presenter25:40

You're the one playing.

Presenter25:43

Thank you.

Presenter25:48

So I'll tell you something

Presenter25:53

It's gonna be hard.

Presenter25:55

Become

Presenter25:57

I'm there.

Baroness Newlove26:00

Uh

Baroness Newlove26:03

Bell and Belmont is waiting for.

Baroness Newlove26:06

Uh

Presenter26:09

Film Eddie and Jennifer Warren singing Time of My Life from the original soundtrack of the film Dirty Dancing. Uh Helen, nine months after the trial ended you set up an initiative called New Love Warrington, and that had come out of this feeling that you had that it

Presenter26:25

This awful, the worst thing you could imagine had happened in the middle of your life and you wanted to make a difference for other people.

Presenter26:33

What was it you wanted to do for young people in the area?

Baroness Newlove26:35

We wanted to give them a radio station, we wanted to do music, go into schools. This was where they could learn a skill, they could create what they wanted. I wanted them to have fun and feel safe. For me, it was a pure celebration of Gary and not a murder victim. The girls could celebrate their dad by acting silly, having dancing, and that's what I wanted for the young people of Warrington.

Presenter26:59

And because of the work you did, and how noticeable it became not just in your local community, but in the country beyond, and the fact that you became a figure of national significance in articulating what you felt was wrong with the system, you found yourself taking up a seat in the House of Lords in twenty ten.

Baroness Newlove27:17

Yes, it's a bit surreal, isn't it?

Baroness Newlove27:20

You get an indunction and I went in there to say I felt like Hilda Rogdon, which a lot of people were. What do you mean?

Presenter27:25

What do you mean?

Baroness Newlove27:25

I just felt, you know, I was very working class and this was an establishment that had very eloquent, clever people and I didn't think I was that person. And so it took a lot to go there. But what I have to say is, while I thought these people wouldn't speak to me, they're the most warmest people I've ever known. And you have to make your maiden speech. Yes. And it's an introduction about yourself.

Presenter27:51

Yeah.

Baroness Newlove27:54

I introduced what Gary was as a person, what we'd been through, and the work I wanted to carry on.

Baroness Newlove28:00

And, you know, you could hear a pin drop.

Baroness Newlove28:03

My line was, well, I came here'cause my husband was murdered, and I have a great mentor, Baroness Morris of Bolton, and she said I'm going to slap you if you keep saying that. You're here because of the work that you have done and the work you will carry on to do in memory of your husband. So it's been quite a journey in the House of Lords.

Presenter28:15

Yeah.

Presenter28:22

Let's hear your seventh. Tell me about this, Baroness Newlove.

Baroness Newlove28:26

This really, I suppose, sums up when you just want to go to that Zen place. It's Sting Fields of Gold. And it just, for me, it's sometimes where your head is full of things and you want to just be left in a space and float and you can feel your arms just going over the cornfields and getting away from everything and just having that space to yourself.

Speaker 428:51

When the West Wind moves upon the fields of party

Speaker 428:59

You forget the sun.

Speaker 329:01

Uh

Speaker 429:01

Yeah.

Speaker 329:01

In a jealous sky As we walk in fields of glue.

Speaker 429:15

So she took her love for two days a while.

Presenter29:20

There was sting and fields of gold. So, Helen Newlove, you sit as Baroness Newlove on the Conservative benches of the House of Lords. I wonder when you look at specifically at things like austerity and you hear people saying, well, you know, youth services are being cut and if we do that, you know, that's going to mean that these kids have nowhere to go on the weekend or in the evening. What's your answer to people who criticise the Tory Government for the cuts?

Baroness Newlove29:49

I think we had to make cuts. We were in trillions of debt. But I don't think I'm the typical politician because I'm not a yes minister and I think my face shows that I'm not one of them that could pretend. And when you're on the front line of, you know, there's nowhere to go and no safe spaces, if you're cutting youth services and the local authorities are cutting down as well, where do young people go to feel safe and have a future? And that's why I'm very passionate about on-site youth zones. If you don't have a good community and have a good upbringing and we help people, you know, young people who don't have a good upbringing and there's nothing for them to do, we're not going to create that safe community.

Presenter30:34

Your tenure as Victims Commissioner comes to an end next year. What about the rest of your life? What about your personal life?

Baroness Newlove30:41

Well, you know, I've had great support. I've remarried. I've got a great man in my life who's very, very private, and my daughters adore him. And for me, that's real. I try to do the best I can. People will criticise you no matter what, but I would always say walk a mile in my shoes. It's very easy to put a duvet over your head. It's very easy at times when I was suicidal to take that bottle of pills. But my daughters don't deserve that. They've been ripped of one parent, and I'm determined to do the best. You know, we have ups and downs, they drive me nuts. I'll be working till I'm 90. I keep saying that. But I love every hair on their head. And I'm not a political speaker. I'm actually just Helen Newlove, brought up by two wonderful parents and a good sister. And that's all I see myself. I'm no better than anybody else. But what I've been given, I want to do the best and put 200% into that.

Presenter31:36

You will know of course that on Desert Island Discs we cast people away to be all by themselves. How on earth would you manage that?

Baroness Newlove31:41

Yeah.

Baroness Newlove31:43

Um well, actually I quite like some space sometimes. It's quite nice to say I don't want to talk. Yeah, I c I suppose it'll drive me nuts to a degree, but actually I think sometimes I just want to go there now.

Presenter31:55

Could be just the ticket. Tell me about your final piece of music then, Helen. What are you going to use?

Baroness Newlove31:58

My final piece is Bring Me Sunshine, Morecambe and Wise. They were the heart of what we used to do on Christmas Day with family. It reminds me of my dad, and it's just wholesome, wholesome, good, happy thoughts. And for me, that's what makes me think of these every time as a family person.

Speaker 432:17

Bring me sunshine.

Speaker 432:20

Ain't your smile.

Speaker 432:23

Bring me laughter.

Speaker 332:25

Uh

Speaker 332:26

All the while.

Speaker 332:29

In this world where we live, there should be more happiness, so much joy you can give To each brand new bright tomorrow, make me happy.

Speaker 332:44

Through the years.

Speaker 332:47

Never bring me

Speaker 332:49

Any cheers?

Presenter32:52

Morecombe and Wise Bring Me Sunshine. I'm going to give you some books now, Helen. You get to take to the Island the complete works of Shakespeare and the Bible, and then one other book that you've chosen.

Baroness Newlove33:03

Well, as I say, I love reading and uh one book I've never read is War and Peace, so I think it'd be good, but it's also got practical skills to it. It can provide our toiletry needs, it's because there's plenty paper.

Presenter33:13

Right, I see what you're saying.

Baroness Newlove33:14

See, it's not very practical. You see my girl guiding coming out of me that

Presenter33:17

Okay, it's your book, then. We allow you a luxury, too.

Baroness Newlove33:20

But I always think lipstick makes you feel good. You can put a pout on where you're lippy. And so I'm going for my lipstick.

Presenter33:26

Right, an endless supply then of your favourite lipstick. If you had to save just one of these eight tracks, which one would it be?

Baroness Newlove33:32

I think I would go Fields of Gold. You know, if I'm a castaway, I'm gonna listen to the sea, and to me, I'll be in Fields of Gold, reading my book.

Presenter33:40

You can have it then. Baroness Helen Newlove, thank you very much for letting us see your desert island diss

Baroness Newlove33:44

Thank you very much, Kirsty.

Presenter33:57

So, we'll leave Baroness New Love in her fields of gold with her Lippi and her war and peace. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. The Desert Island Disc's back catalogue features a number of campaigners including Baroness Doreen Lawrence, Wangari Matai, Jasvinder Singera and Sara Khan. You can download all of those editions from wherever you get your podcasts. Next time, my guest will be the theatre director Marianne Elliott. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 434:27

Yeah.

Baroness Newlove34:27

Yeah. Uh

Speaker 434:28

B B C

Speaker 434:30

The Infinite Monkey Cage returns with the one hundredth episode.

Speaker 334:33

And we're going to be asking what do we know now that we didn't know during our first episode back in November 2009?

Speaker 434:39

Now the one hundredth episode is very ambitious. We have more guests than we've ever tried to control before. Eric Heidel, Katie Brown, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Alice Roberts, Dave Gorman, Andy Hamilton, the Reverend Richard Coles.

Presenter34:51

Right.

Speaker 434:53

Who will be discussing gravitational waves and whether he causes more of them?

Speaker 334:58

Mm, I think he does.

Speaker 434:59

To find the podcast, just search for the Infinite Monkey Cage wherever in the universe that you're listening right now, and hit subscribe.