Matt Smith

Speaker 40:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:03

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young. Welcome to Desert Island Discs, where every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, the book and the luxury item that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away on a desert island.

Presenter0:16

For rights' reasons, the music on these podcast versions is shorter than in the original broadcast. You can find over two thousand more editions to listen to and download on the Desert Island Disc's website.

Presenter0:29

This is an extended edition of the original broadcast.

Presenter0:53

My castaway this week is the actor Matt Smith. Depending on your viewing preferences, he's either the best Time Lord there's ever been or as close to a young Prince Philip as humanly possible without actually being His Royal Highness. He's played plenty of different parts on stage and screen, but without doubt the BBC smash hit Doctor Who and the hugely acclaimed Netflix series The Crown have to date provided him with his two defining roles, the significant critical success of both making him an international star.

Presenter1:21

Yet if everything had gone to plan, he should by rights, at the ripe old age of thirty five, be heading for retirement. He was going to be a footballer, and had signed to Leicester City's youth team but a devastating back problem put paid to a sporting career. And so he'll have to make do with competing for BAFTAs rather than the FA Cup. He says

Presenter1:38

There are great disciplines from being a sportsman that you can transfer into being an artist, the preparation, the sacrifice, the constant desire to improve. Welcome, Matt Smith.

Matt Smith1:48

Thank you for having me.

Presenter1:49

You're a ball of energy.

Matt Smith1:50

Oh god, I know it's because I'm excited to be here.

Presenter1:53

Interesting, that the preparation, the sacrifice, the constant desire to improve. I might add to that maybe the spotlight, the adulation.

Matt Smith2:01

I would agree with you. Yeah, there's a touch of the Eric Cantenar in every actor, I think.

Presenter2:05

I'm interested in in the degree of preparation you do. I mentioned there His Royal Highness Prince Philip in your portrayal of him.

Presenter2:11

In the crown, which, you know, you weren't obvious casting for that. When I saw that you'd got the part, I thought, really?

Matt Smith2:18

Yeah,'cause I'm completely the wrong class, actually, for Prince Philip, but

Presenter2:22

But you d you don't look like him and then yet somehow you do. How did you do that physical thing?

Matt Smith2:22

But you d

Matt Smith2:27

Great wig. And you know, you watch and you kind of pay attention to as much video footage and you read as much and you immerse yourself in the history and the context and the world of those people. For me, there's usually a physical thing, one physical thing, and one vocal thing that I just repeat, repeat, repeat. And for him, he had his hands behind his back, so I would always walk with my hands behind my back. And then the other thing, which I've kept to this day, which makes Claire laugh, is I go, oh no, yes, absolutely, oh no, no, no, absolutely, fine. Or I'd say, um, Olympic, because he says Olympic in a very sort of perfect way.

Presenter3:02

I saw a little snippet of a quote from you when you were talking about playing the part, and you said, He's a cool cat.

Matt Smith3:07

He's a rock star. You play him like that. Well, thank you very much. And that's how I saw him because he did what he wants, when he wants, how he wants. He didn't ask permission, and his wife was the queen. And in this day and age, in the current climate, with all the conversations that we're having about being a man and maleness and being a woman and you know what it is to be empowered as a woman and be respected as a woman, I just found that thrilling really. And also I kind of sided with him, which is controversial. Like I kind of felt, yeah, I wouldn't really want to kneel to my wife.

Presenter3:41

Did it take Cahonies to play him? Did it did you sort of wonder if you

Matt Smith3:44

I questioned it, but then I questioned everything. I mean, I questioned my list, as you well know. Yes, this is quite a tortured process for you, this list. But most things are.

Presenter3:53

Is that to do with what feeling that you can be honestly creative or authentic? Why where's the torture coming from?

Matt Smith3:58

Probably. I don't really know. I think most of it's self-inflicted. I can't really make decisions very well.

Presenter4:04

We must of course talk about Doctor Who. I'm going to ask you a lot about it later on, but I want to ask you about the next Doctor Who is of course the female Doctor Who, uh the first female Doctor Who, a Jury Whitaker. It was from some quarters viewed as a very controversial decision. What was your reaction when you found out? Because I'm guessing you just found out at the same time as the rest of us.

Matt Smith4:21

Yeah, well no actually. I phoned up my great friend Piers Wenger who's who's head of drama at the BBC. I pursued him for months about it. Tell me, tell me, tell me. And the day before, he said, okay, I'll tell you. And then it'd be nice if you rang her and you know, said good luck and stuff. So he told me. And I mean, A, I think it's a brilliant choice because I think that show, a bit like Shakespeare actually, sort of relies on big, broad, creative brushstrokes, you know. And also when it's controversial, it's sort of alive, that show. Because if it's too safe and too sane, that's not what he is inherently. And he's such a brilliant part of the Doctor. His energy is completely mercurial and unpredictable and wild and really selfish, actually, or hers now. Anyway, so then I rang her, but she wasn't there. So I just sang the Doctor Who theme tune once. And I said nothing else. Because I know the panic that sort of exists around keeping that secret. I kept it for like five months and it was a nightmare. Yeah, and then she rang back and she was like, oh man, who is this? Who is this? I was like, Jody.

Presenter5:25

Man who

Matt Smith5:29

But I think it's brilliant and I think it's high time and I think she'll be sensational because she's got real humanity and she's funny. There's a northernness to her that I think's gonna translate really well to his humanness.

Presenter5:43

And did you give her any little nuggets of advice? Or did you say, be ready for?

Matt Smith5:48

The same as I gave Peter, which a director, a crazy Texan director, gave me after my first play at the Royal Court. And he looked at me and was like, Hey man, Matt.

Matt Smith6:00

listen to no one. So that's what I pass on to people. You know, because it it kind of has to be so idiosyncratic to you and it's your blood and your bones and I don't think it's something you can sort of pass on that part.

Presenter6:14

Let's go to your. I was going to say tortured list, but actually it's a fabulous list, but it's been a lot of torture for you to get it down to eight. Tell me about this first one then. Explain yourself.

Matt Smith6:18

Yeah.

Matt Smith6:20

Yeah.

Matt Smith6:22

Well, my first track is Oasis and I've chosen them first because to me these are the greatest rock and roll band in the world. And I say that for many reasons but firstly because I was there and I think for me this band captured the 90s and I went to watch them twice on the trot at the Milton Keynes Bowl and I just went woof, whatever that is, I'm having it. And there was a sort of a courage and a defiance and a rock and rollness and a footballness. Also, I came to the second album first.

Matt Smith6:58

And there was a battle between Blur and Oasis. I also love Blur, but.

Matt Smith7:03

Oasis is my heart and there was a battle for number one and my mum had uh like an old tape cassette thing and it was when the top ten actually mattered and we got to two and it was roll with it and I was gutted and blur country house was number one but my first song is Oasis, the greatest rock and roll band in the world and it's roll with it.

Matt Smith7:24

You gotta take it some you gotta

Presenter7:27

Gotta say what you say. Don't let anybody get in your way. Cause it's all too much for me to take.

Presenter7:38

Don't ever stand aside, don't ever be denied. You wanna be here you be

Speaker 27:44

If you're coming with me, I think I've got a feeling I've lost inside. I think I'm

Matt Smith7:50

Gonna take me away and hide. I'm thinking things that I just can't

Presenter8:00

That was Oasis and roll with the chosen Matt Smith, you said harshly, for the rock and rollness and the footballness. That's my favourite new word of the day.

Matt Smith8:06

Yeah.

Presenter8:08

What were you if this is what you're like as an adult, which is incredibly energetic, I get that from you this morning. What were you like as a little boy?

Matt Smith8:13

What would my

Matt Smith8:15

Quite bizarre as a child. I had a speech impediment and I had all these like habits and I sort of broke out of them but um What what habits? I used to well, I didn't I used to blink a lot.

Presenter8:27

Pa

Matt Smith8:27

I was quite twitchy, but I was good at football, so that gave me that gave me something. I think now I'd be diagnosed with like ADHD or something. But I was happy, you know, because I had great parents and great friends.

Presenter8:42

What was the speech impediment? How did it manifest itself?

Matt Smith8:44

It was um and it it came back see there it's c it it creeps in sometimes it came back once on stage and it was like the worst I I nearly quit it was so bad doing a play called swimming with sharks and it was every night on stage and I I would come on and go It was a dear old Christian Slater who was very kind about it and I'd come on and go and I I was playing American I'd be like oh hey hey hey is um s and bear in mind this is in front of a thousand people a night is um s

Matt Smith9:14

Stella there and it was S T and I don't know why, but my mum, God love my mother, she used to give me the day off school when they had like the kind of big school assemblies and you had to stand up and say, My name's Matt and I like green plants or whatever it is. Good old mum.

Presenter9:31

Your mum, Lynn. You were born in 1982. Lynn and David brought up in Northampton. In it.

Matt Smith9:34

Look.

Matt Smith9:37

Yeah, till I die.

Presenter9:38

Tell me first about your dad.

Matt Smith9:41

My old man, he's a legend, he's the greatest influence on my life, Bar Nam.

Matt Smith9:47

I kind of often think all of my truest moments as an actor are somehow impersonations of him, if that makes sense.

Presenter9:54

It does.

Matt Smith9:57

Yeah, because when I impersonate him emotionally or even his voice, he's from Blackburn, Blackburn, Kook and Book and as a kid I'd impersonate him a lot and if I can be sort of half the dad, it sounds a bit kind of sentimental, but he's put his family first. With my sister he sort of remortgages the house to put her through dance school and he never missed anything. He would drive me up to Forest or up to Nottingham twice a week. and you know get a business to run as well and he was working for the plastics company at the time but he would kind of sack that off he'd pick me up from school he'd drive me up we'd get back at 10 11 at night and then i'd go to school the next day and then when i was at leicester so it was just it was just constant kind of dedication but also he was he was quite tough on me

Presenter10:42

Your your grandfather had played for Knotts County and your father was a great footballer but hadn't ever played professionally. Was there a sense of I mean, given how well you got on with your dad, was there a sense that pleasing him was very important to you? You want yeah, yeah.

Matt Smith10:46

Yeah.

Matt Smith10:52

Yeah, probably, but he never pushed that on me, and you know, and he always did that thing, which I would hope that I would do to my son. That if he had a bad game, he'd go, You've not played very well today. But when I got released from Leicester because of my back, it was my history exam the next day, and I looked back on it, and it was one of the lowest moments that I've had really in my life. And he just said, Look, right, in life, you'll get knocked back, and now it's how you react to this moment, and this is going to define.

Matt Smith11:23

who you are and and there's just kind of little moments where he's been he's been there in a brilliant way, you know.

Presenter11:28

Much more in just a moment, Matt Smith. But for now, tell me about this second disk. Why is it on your list?

Matt Smith11:33

Well actually it's because I'm an old man. We would go up to Nottingham and on the way up we'd listen to an Oasis album or an album of my choice but on the way back we'd listened to one of his and it was often Sergeant Pepper's. It's difficult not having the Beatles on here and we listened to Dark Side of the Moon which as like a 13 year old kid is quite a mad album. It's a stretch isn't it? Yeah yeah it is and you love the opening with the bells and the clocks.

Presenter11:53

Yeah, it's a massive stretch, yes.

Matt Smith11:59

And he like used to let me open the sunroof and put the heaters on, which sounds like quite a stupid thing, but I used to love it for some reason. And then this song particularly, I always just thought, what the hell is that? And I just, you know, I owe this album and I owe Pink Floyd to my old man.

Presenter12:55

That was Pink Floyd and the Great Gig in the Sky. As you mentioned, Matt Smith, you were playing for Northampton Town when you were a junior. Just give me a sense in which you you know, you had this bad speech impediment and that would inhibit you talking very much, but you loved to play. What was the sensation when you were on the pitch and expressing yourself in that way?

Speaker 213:02

Yeah.

Matt Smith13:13

Well, it was it was without fear. I mean all I did was play football ten hours a day.

Matt Smith13:20

And it sort of came easily, I suppose, and it came very naturally. And I liked sort of learning about it. And also, I just think the drama of sport always appealed to me. When Sergio Aguero scores against QPR on the last day of the season, and Martin Tyler goes, Aguero! Or if you're an Olympic athlete and you've been training for four years to lose by a hair, that sort of thing. And I would dream about football a lot. I was imagining myself doing well. I was imagining myself as the best. I suppose that's the thing.

Presenter13:52

And so you felt you felt li like most of us, I guess, but for you it seems to have been stronger. You felt most alive when life was vivid.

Matt Smith13:58

Yeah, I'm sort of practising at being better at the bits of life that aren't vivid. I find relaxing quite a sort of I'm not very good at it. Even reading a book, I'm only good at reading books on holiday. My idleness isn't very interesting.

Presenter14:11

Um you suffered then this really debilitating back condition, spondylosis, what was it, I think?

Matt Smith14:16

Yes, wow, that's impressive. I always forget what it's called. My lumber five was getting thinner, basically.

Presenter14:22

Basically.

Matt Smith14:23

Yeah, it's a pain in the ass and had I kept playing would have basically got thinner and thinner and thinner. And then in my early twenties I would have had to have had a sort of metal plate essentially put in it. I mean kind of Leicester were like we just can't take a chance on this but it was tricky because I was captain there and I was doing really well and I was injured for 13, 14 months.

Presenter14:42

And that was your identity, so tell me about losing it.

Matt Smith14:46

Very difficult actually. It was very difficult for me to tell people that I had been released because the vain part of me was like I am that and I'm the footballer. You know and that's and at school I was the footballer and suddenly I wasn't that and you know fortuitously there was a drama teacher, Jerry Harningham, who said you were never meant to be a footballer. I always thought you were really great at acting.

Presenter14:55

Sure.

Presenter15:11

How did he know that? Have you been in Soul Productions?

Matt Smith15:13

I did it for G S C and he put me in a drama festival and I said I'd do it and then I just didn't turn up and then he did it again and I didn't turn up and he rang my mum and said look Matt's not turned up twice but I'm going to give him one more chance and put him in a play. Twelve angry men.

Matt Smith15:28

And my mum said to me, You should do this and then I went back and I did it.

Presenter15:33

I'm going to ask you a little bit more about that in a second, but I'm interested. It occurs to me as I say you sort of lost your identity. But then for your dad, he was father of Matt the footballer. He was the guy that ran him everywhere. He was the guy on the touch line. He was the guy that shared the albums on the journeys back when it was just the two of them. He was. That's a that was a must have been a great loss for him too.

Matt Smith15:41

Yeah.

Speaker 215:41

But

Matt Smith15:50

I know. It was, but you know, I mean.

Matt Smith15:54

When I got Doctor Who, I rang him like two months in and I said, I can't, I can't do this.

Matt Smith16:00

And he said you can. The hardest thing in life is to adapt and you will adapt and you've got to adapt. And you know, I did. I adapted.

Matt Smith16:10

And you know, he'd always said it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you enjoy it.

Matt Smith16:14

But it was tough. It was a tough time. It was a tough time because I was just

Matt Smith16:18

I, you know, I was just uncertain. I just felt unfulfilled.

Matt Smith16:22

To be honest with you, I felt like I was so certain that that was what I was going to do. Because I got fit just towards the end, and this is just towards the time when they're picking all the boys that were going to play for the YTS. Because then you go in and you spend three years as like a YT then. You know, I'd been out for a year and I was trying to get fit, but playing in all these games where they were deciding, you know, who was going to, and it was just the love of it. I ran away from home once, the night before a match. We were playing Sheffield Wednesday, and I climbed out the window, stole 20 quid out of my dad's wallet, got a taxi, I got on a train, got to Houston, phoned my sister and said, I'm in Houston. How old can you pick me up?

Presenter17:05

Help you?

Matt Smith17:06

fifteen and um I I think s sublimely I didn't want to play. I said my mum and dad were having an argument. So Laura had to tell Dad, he drove up.

Matt Smith17:17

And it's it's the only time he's ever, ever swore at me. He drove up, picked me up, he drove me from London up to Sheffield'cause we were playing Sheffield Wednesday.

Matt Smith17:27

And then he didn't say a word, not a word to me. And then I played the game and actually played right, funny enough. And then I got back in the car. I got in.

Matt Smith17:35

And I closed the door and he said, You f ⁇ ed.

Matt Smith17:39

Idiot.

Matt Smith17:41

And that was it. Drove home, didn't say a word, and that was it.

Presenter17:45

Let's take a break for some music, Matt Smith. Tell me about this third one.

Matt Smith17:48

Mercy Mercy Me, Marvin Gaye. I mean look, it's difficult which songs you pick. I wanted so much to play a radiohead song in this slot, really.

Presenter17:55

I know, it's killing you that they're not on your list'cause you play them so much and they're a big part of your musical life.

Matt Smith17:59

A big part as a band, you know, they're incredible, but it's often about characters for me, music, and about people. And I sort of wanted to play a soul song and I listened to this a lot in Brazil. And I sort of fell in love with Brazil. And my mum got me into Motown and soul music. And this is Marvin Gaye. Mercy, mercy, me.

Matt Smith18:21

Whoa.

Matt Smith18:23

Oh mercy, nursing me.

Speaker 218:28

All things ain't what they used to be now.

Speaker 218:33

Where did all the blue skies move?

Speaker 218:37

Horizon is the wind that blows From the North and Santa Sea Oh mercy, mercy, me

Speaker 218:49

All things ain't what they used to be

Presenter18:53

That was Marvin Gaye and Mercy, Mercy, me. Part of the reason you chose that, Matt Smith, was because of your mother, because she introduced you to a lot of Motown. We've heard a lot about your dad, and it's interesting that it was your mother.

Matt Smith18:59

Yeah.

Presenter19:04

And mister Hardingham lets cheer three times for him that may

Matt Smith19:06

Yeah.

Presenter19:08

That made sure that you took up drama. They both kind of strong-armed you into it.

Matt Smith19:08

That makes sense.

Matt Smith19:13

Yeah, I just thought it was a bit girly, to be honest with you, which sounds reductive, doesn't it? But it was such a sort of big departure for me. And the first play I did, my friends came to watch it and were just like, What is he doing? And then the second one I did was The Pirates of Penzance, and I came out and I sang.

Presenter19:21

Uh

Matt Smith19:28

And they were just like, What are you who are you, Smithy? It was such a U-turn, but and I kept it secret for a bit.

Matt Smith19:36

But I got the same sense of freedom doing that.

Matt Smith19:40

Which is really difficult now as an actor that I did play in football.

Presenter19:44

What do you make now of mister Hardingham? Because you hadn't done much, and yet he said you're an actor.

Matt Smith19:51

And you should be acting. It changed my life. He sat me down and said you should apply for the MIT.

Presenter19:55

National Youth Theatre.

Matt Smith19:56

Yep, and he filled in the forms with me and I did that and then that was the the next big catalyst in my journey as an actor. That changed my whole life really and he's been to see every play I've ever done. My mum and him are still she's really brilliant at keeping in touch with people, my mum, which I'm not. But he uh whenever he comes to see a play we go and have a drink and catch up.

Presenter20:18

Interesting to talk for a moment about your mum, because you you were saying your sister Laura is a professional dancer. She is. I mean, it's unusual to have the two kids in the family both going on to be performers. What was it, do you think, about the household and maybe about your mum that meant that that was encouraged in you?

Matt Smith20:32

Well, she worked for a newspaper and then she worked uh in promotions, you know, she'd dress up as a banana and sort of hand down flies. Sorry, mamma. And then she worked at a newspaper and it wasn't like we were a creative family in that way. But again I look back and my sister did the pantomime.

Matt Smith20:49

And I went like twenty times and I sat in the Gods and I'd go with my best mate and we'd eat fruit gums. And then she was in Saturday night fever and I went twenty four times'cause my mum would take all her friends and that's what she's like. Now, God love her, like she's a nightmare. I'm not on Facebook or anything, but she's

Presenter21:05

Your mum is on the Twitter.

Matt Smith21:07

Oh, do you know what I mean? She loves it. I'm like, mum, she's always trying to tweet photos of me, but I'm not on any of that, you see.

Presenter21:12

I saw a particularly charming one of you and your girlfriend and I think your grandfather's in there too, all wearing Christmas jumpers on Christmas Day. I mean you look happy in it. Are you sort of forced into that?

Matt Smith21:18

Yeah, yeah.

Matt Smith21:21

Yeah, he sort of

Matt Smith21:22

I was. Yeah, of course I was forced into it. Definitely. But that's my sister who makes Christmas. And I was gonna put a Christmas song on here, by the way, which because I thought on a desert island it's gonna be Christmas.

Presenter21:32

Which one would it have been if it had been on?

Matt Smith21:34

The only Christmas song that should be there and it's George Michael Last Christmas, the greatest Christmas song of all time.

Presenter21:40

I think I might agree. We're not going to hear that now. Tell me about your fourth disc then and w and why you've chosen it.

Matt Smith21:42

Yeah.

Matt Smith21:44

Well, controversial this really. Again, this was um a moment in time I suppose. I listen to it on vinyl sometimes. It's Paul Van Dyke featuring Rachel McFarlane. Sorry, Radio 4. It's called For an Angel and it was because about 18 or 19 I got into decks and music and stuff and particularly garage and house and trance and dance music. And I'd go to this record shop called Spinner Disc and spend like 12 quid on a white label record. And I used to love it. And this is one I bought back in the day. And then I used to try and get into this nightclub called Time and Envy when I was young, 17, 18, and go and listen to Brandon Block and Pete Tongue and all those sort of people.

Presenter22:22

And where were you D Jing with your decks?

Matt Smith22:24

Well, here's the thing, I was head boy, so I used to have this amazing thing on a Tuesday morning called the school council and I spent all of the money that was meant to be for the yearbook on the social fund and we threw three parties, all of which I DJ'd out. Me and my mate Nick Kingsnorf, who's one of my best pals, we used to go up in my room and we nicked his little sister's karaoke machine because we don't have any speakers and we used to just practice up there and then I'd play at these parties. Yeah, but I'd play songs that everyone hated, Hard House, Trance, and Garage was a bit more popular back then, but this is a sort of lighter version of some of it.

Presenter23:36

Radio 4, The Home of Heavy Trump. That was Paul Van Dyck featuring Rachel MacFarlane for an angel. Matt Smith, you travelled a bit, you had a gap year, and then you went on to the University of East Anglia. You read drama and creative writing. It's interesting, anything that I read about you, it doesn't particularly give me any indication that that university was a significant time for you in terms of the university itself. You know, some people really it defi it almost defines the rest of their life. That doesn't seem the case with you.

Matt Smith24:02

No, absolutely not.

Presenter24:03

Absolutely not.

Matt Smith24:05

I didn't really like going to lectures. I didn't like the sort of academia of it. And listen, I met some lovely people there. I met three Brazilian kids who remain three of my closest friends and I went to Brazil sort of several times. And then I met a girl there and then it was like three or four years really on and off. And that was something that I will always remember. But I think my curiosity was in London. And so uni just became about booze and chicks and you know missing stuff. And then I left early because I got this play at the Royal Court. You know, I tried to finish my degree and they weren't going to let me leave. But I was like, it's a play at the Royal Court. I have to go and do it.

Presenter24:48

It happened relatively quickly for you, uh your career, Matt. As you say, you'd been doing professional gigs when you were still at university. You graduated two thousand five, then you appeared in the National Theatre's touring production of The History Boys.

Presenter25:01

You were then nominated for Best Newcomer at the Evening Standard Theatre Awards for your role in The Face, and you also appeared in the BBC Two series Party Animals. It was very highly regarded at the time.

Presenter25:13

Then, in 2008, David Tennant announced that he was stepping down as the doctor, and I'm wondering, did you immediately call your agent?

Matt Smith25:21

Mo, no. Again it was m it was my old dear. I had a scarf on and she was like, You should be the next doctor who, no word of a lie, and I used to wear it at uni.

Matt Smith25:29

And um, she's always said she's a bit psychic, my dear. And um, yeah, she said it. And then my agent rang me one day and said, How would you feel about auditioning for Doctor Who? and I thought,

Matt Smith25:42

Mm, yeah, alright. I'd never seen it. I'd never seen an episode, not one.

Presenter25:46

Not one.

Matt Smith25:46

Not one episode in my whole life. I walked into the audition, I did and I read it and I thought, whoa, this is brilliant, what the hell is this? And it was the 11th hour.

Matt Smith25:55

And I just thought there was something about this, I love him basically. Sort of and also it's all secret. It's in a hotel. It was in a travel lodge in like South London. You can't tell anyone, and it's like they're literally like if you tell anyone this, you know, it's all so secret, which makes it sort of amazing and illicit. And in the audition, there was a fish in the room.

Matt Smith26:16

A live fish in the corner of the room. And for some reason I just went straight to the fish. And I sat down and I I was wearing a tweed jacket'cause I thought I wanted him to be a professorial. And then

Presenter26:29

I want this to be a story in two parts. I've got to fit the music in. Tell me why you've chosen this fifth one, and we're going to come back to that, of course.

Matt Smith26:35

RK Fire, keep the car running. Look, RK Fire was such a huge banner for me in London when I was young and I was an actor around about this time and seen them live loads. But I was in Chicago, I couldn't get a hotel room. Anyway, I came out the hotel

Matt Smith26:50

Me and my girlfriend. The actress Lily James. Yeah. There was a big silver bus there. And I was like, that has to be a band. And this woman was sort of looking at me because I was looking at the bus. And then the woman came up to me. She says, Can I have a photo? I was like, yeah, cool. I was like, who's in the bus? And she said, Arcade Fire. And I was like, no way. She says, yeah, I'm their manager. Do you want to come and see him tonight? I'm like, yes. And then she says, do you want to go on stage for the finale? So that night, me and Lil's went and we watched Arcade Fire. And then at the end, we went on stage, went and met them. And then they're like, we're playing in Toronto next week. So we changed all our plans. We drove to Toronto and we watched them again there and did the same thing twice.

Matt Smith27:33

There's a steer, said.

Matt Smith27:38

Who attends practical ski?

Presenter28:10

Arcade fire and keep the car running. Right, Matt, let's cut right back to your audition. You've got the little tweed blazer on, your idea.

Speaker 228:15

See you.

Presenter28:19

There's a fish in the corner of the room. You are not sort of known other than to casting director, so you're not a you're a jobbing actor who's doing fine, and this is the biggest role in British television that you're auditioning for.

Speaker 228:20

Yeah.

Matt Smith28:21

Um you are

Matt Smith28:25

Of yet.

Matt Smith28:30

Yeah.

Presenter28:31

What happens?

Matt Smith28:33

I get in, I do it, and it sort of went alright, and then I do it again. And then they asked me what my favourite episode was, and I was like, look.

Matt Smith28:41

Doctor Who's on at seven o'clock on a Saturday night. I'm in a boozer then.

Matt Smith28:46

And I'm like, oh, right. Anyway, and then I went away and they asked me back.

Presenter28:51

Do you know, I I've read this uh intriguing uh little quote from Stephen Moffat, who had taken over from Russell T. Davis as the showrunner, of course, by the time that you were auditioning. He said that as he was watching you in this casting session, he said he was like a young man built by old men from memory.

Matt Smith29:07

Yeah.

Presenter29:07

Isn't that fascinating?

Matt Smith29:08

I know, and then you just tell jokes about my chin and my ears and all sorts of things. God bless the man. Yeah, well, because I look a bit, you know, I look sort of.

Matt Smith29:17

Old, I suppose, essentially. Even when I was young I looked a bit sort of craggy.

Presenter29:21

So, you know, the doctor's 900 years old, you've got some way to go. But there was that moment, early January 2009.

Presenter29:27

The Eleventh Doctor was announced. Really, this is a life-changing moment for an actor.

Matt Smith29:32

Yeah.

Presenter29:33

Where you can be defined by this rule.

Matt Smith29:36

Mm.

Presenter29:36

Did you have a wobble before you took it?

Matt Smith29:39

Yeah, I said.

Matt Smith29:42

I'll never forget it. My agent rang me, I was on a cobbled street, and it was so cloak and dagger, the whole thing. Kind of before they could accept it and I accept it, there was this meal that had to happen at Stephen Moffat's house, and there were plates with David Tennant's face on. Oh, crumbs. And they picked it up and they were like, just so you know, this is what it's like. And then they're like, are there any skeletons in your closet?

Presenter30:02

And were there?

Matt Smith30:03

No, actually. I mean, I can't tell you what I said. It would be remiss of me. It would be. But, you know, tell me what you said.

Presenter30:12

Tell me what you said.

Matt Smith30:14

Well no, because you know, th it it wasn't like I was I was concealing any sort of behaviors that wouldn't be conducive with taking on that part. And when you take on that part, you're taking on a sort of headboyness. That's that's where the headboyness came in quite handy actually.

Presenter30:28

That's

Presenter30:30

Yeah.

Matt Smith30:32

Um but then I did wobble. I was like, I don't think I'm gonna do it and my agent was like, You're gonna do it. But and it's the greatest it's the greatest part of my life. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life. It was I loved every minute of it. And the hardest w

Presenter30:46

and the hardest work.

Matt Smith30:47

The hardest thing you will ever do in your life.

Presenter30:47

As an actor.

Presenter30:51

What is that? Why are the days so long? Why is it so difficult?

Matt Smith30:54

Because he's the central, he is the he's the narrative. So the line learning, you've got a minimum of seven to eight pages a night and your Sunday is and that was a really good piece of advice from David Tennant, who's a lovely man. He was like, work hard on the Sunday for the week. And I really did. And it's just such a gargantuan amount of lines.

Presenter31:17

When did you know that you absolutely were public property and that walking down the street was no longer an option?

Matt Smith31:24

Well, I still get the tube and all that. I'm a firm believer that you you have to commit to the normal day to day functions of life as much as you can. I mean, I wear a hat and sometimes a pair of reading glasses or something.

Presenter31:26

Yeah.

Matt Smith31:37

Just because I think that's the stuff that keeps you sane and I like getting a tube

Presenter31:41

Let's have another piece of music, Matt Smith. It's your sixth we've come to. Tell me why this is there.

Matt Smith31:47

Had to have a rap song from 11 or 12 and my other best mate Bondi, me and him did just all rap. My two favourite rappers are Nas and Biggie. It was a toss-up. And this is quite a commercial Biggie tune. I don't know if this is right, but I read somewhere that when Seamus Heaney was on his deathbed, and this might be rubbish, but I don't want it to be, they asked him who his favourite modern poet was and he said Eminem. And I think it's about rhythm. And weirdly, that's what made me quite good at learning lines and quite good at doing it quickly, is that I learned them rhythmically. And I would literally rap them. I love poetry as well, without sounding too, but you know. Anyway, this is the notorious BIG, Juicy.

Speaker 232:31

It was all a dream. I used to read Word Up magazine. Something pepper and heavy D up in the limousine. Hanging pictures on my wall. Every Saturday, rap attack Mr. Magic Molly Maul. I let my tape rock through my tape pop.

Speaker 232:47

Way back when I had the red and black lumberjack with the hat to match Remember rapping duke, gaha, the ha, you never thought that hip-hop would take it this far. Now I'm in the limelight cause I rhyme tight, time to get paid, blow up like the world trade. Born siller, the opposite of a winner. Remember when I used to eat sardines for dinner? Peace

Presenter32:53

Gaha

Presenter33:07

The notorious B. I. G. and Juicy. You you said just before that, Matt Smith, that you know you were saying I like poetry without sounding too what what is it you're worried about?'Cause you'cause there's a a sort of I mean this in the best sense, a kind of laddishness about you.

Matt Smith33:18

Yeah, look.

Matt Smith33:20

Yes, I think you're right. I don't want to sound too sort of um grandiose, I suppose. Too much like an actor.

Presenter33:26

What?

Matt Smith33:26

A little bit. I mean, I love acting so much, but it's my job. And what I love about poetry is that it's a bit like a song. You can keep returning to it.

Presenter33:35

When you were uh the Doctor then and when people started instead of, you know, the inf infamously the headlines, Doctor Who, when you were cast, people people shut up pretty quickly and said he's rather good at this, isn't he? Um did you take a degree of professional satisfaction in that, or were you just too busy in those quarries in Wales at sort of seven in the morning getting on with shooting the stuff?

Matt Smith33:43

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 233:44

Uh

Speaker 233:46

And said

Matt Smith33:56

too busy. But, you know, it was hard.

Presenter33:59

The criticism was hard.

Matt Smith34:00

Yeah. Like I'd walk down the street and people would say things like, Don't break it you know, but I think I'm quite good. I think I'd be quite a good boxer. Like I think I'm quite good on the ropes. If you back me into a corner, I'll come out punching.

Presenter34:13

When was the first time that you saw your face tattooed on somebody's body part? The Hoovians, they're quite a bunch, aren't they? They are a bunch of bunches. They're a good bunch. Yeah, they are.

Matt Smith34:20

They are a bunch. They're a good bunch. Yeah, they are, a dedicated bunch. Once you're in, you're in. It was probably at a convention. And I'm talking like inner thigh. I've seen me and David on both thighs.

Presenter34:32

My

Matt Smith34:35

Can you believe it?

Presenter34:36

What do you say to somebody when they show you your inner sign, your face is tattooed up and down?

Matt Smith34:39

And they go, can you sign it?

Presenter34:41

Yeah.

Matt Smith34:42

Yeah, I'll be honest. I said, what on earth does your boyfriend think? And he was there and he was smiling away. God love him.

Presenter34:49

But they care, and they care deeply, and they care about Yeah.

Presenter34:53

Honouring what they see as the creativity and brilliance of the Doctor Who series. When you're at a convention,

Matt Smith34:57

Yeah.

Speaker 435:01

Uh

Matt Smith35:01

Mm.

Presenter35:02

I mean, you must feel almost overwhelmed by the attention.

Matt Smith35:06

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter35:07

Do you have minders?

Matt Smith35:08

Yeah, yeah, you do have a minor, but the thing is about Doctor Who fans is that it's such a sort of nice transaction and people often say to me, doesn't it feel a bit mercenary? And I'm like, well actually no, because when you're there, you see that the kind of transaction is so I don't know how to articulate it, but that moment where they meet someone that they really love is quite an incredible thing and it's only when I meet footballers that I sort of understand it. I met Jens Lehman and Patrick Vieira recently and I was just like, woof. So actually what I'm doing there is working quite hard to give everyone a moment.

Presenter35:44

What did you learn from that rule about becoming a leading man?

Matt Smith35:49

A lot. I wasn't one. And Sophia Canedo, she probably won't even remember this. This was in the second episode. She said to me, you've got to lead this show. When someone comes in, you are the front point. And then after that, you know, I really made it a point. So any actor that would come in, I'd go and I'd knock on the door and I made it my position to make people welcome and make people feel, you know, that they belonged quite quickly.

Presenter36:13

Once you stepped away from it, the choice that you made was a very interesting one. You you went on to do a musical of American Psycho.

Matt Smith36:20

Yeah.

Presenter36:21

You know, that's a real counterpoint to what you have been doing. You're standing on stage there, you know, in just your underpants and an eye mask covered in blood and singing.

Matt Smith36:27

Yeah.

Presenter36:28

How did you make that choice? Why did you make that choice?

Matt Smith36:30

Well, it's a good point. I made it reluctantly as I make every choice really, which I've got to change, I think. I made it'cause I'd never done a musical. I've always wanted to play a serial killer. The director, Rupert Gould.

Presenter36:41

Why why have you always wanted to play a serial killer?

Matt Smith36:44

I don't know, I just kind of like them. Also, I quite like finding characters that are really difficult. So with that musical, if by the end people can go, God, I feel a bit sorry for him. And there was something in that challenge that I loved and the singing and the music was really good. You know, I'd wanted to work with Reaper. He came around to my house and was like, can you sing? I was like, well, not really. And I sang an acapella version of Live Forever.

Matt Smith37:10

It was just ridiculous. And we had a beer and then he gave me the part. But I'd just come off Doctor Who and had a knee injury. I finished after four years, had the rap party on the Saturday, and Rupert the swine didn't give me the Monday off. And obviously we stayed up till like God knows when. And I had so many great friends up there, all the Welsh boys. Turned up on the Monday with the sweats at this read-through for a musical and was like the world's gonna just swallow me up and I wasn't in shape and you know I was in my pants every day.

Matt Smith37:41

Honestly, I was drawing planes. Constantly drawing planes. A means of escape. I think so.

Presenter37:45

A means of escape.

Presenter37:47

It was

Presenter37:48

Let's have your next piece of music, Matt Smith. We're going to listen to your seventh. Tell me about this.

Matt Smith37:53

It was Italia 1990, and I think this is the first time that my imagination was really

Matt Smith37:59

madly sort of stimulated by music, Nes and Dorma.

Matt Smith38:03

By Johniopa.

Speaker 238:07

What did he do?

Presenter38:11

Yeah.

Speaker 238:14

Uh

Presenter39:02

Luciano Pavarosi live at the Albert Hall singing Puccini's Ness and Dorma with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and the conductor was Koot Herbert Adler. A very significant bit of performance that, Matt Smith, and you wanted listeners to hear that interaction at the end between this magnificent moment of the high note and the appreciation of the audience.

Matt Smith39:24

Yeah, because I just think there is a rock star to me. That song and and that moment at the end of it when something's executed to that level without any apology, with total brilliance, which no one else can do quite like him. Totally singular. You can't help but just go

Matt Smith39:43

And that bit of life, that transaction. It's such a wonderful moment to share with a performer.

Presenter39:49

Totally singular. That's a very interesting phrase. Indeed, just as that piece of music came on, I was saying how long did it take you to work on the American Cycle Role and you said for eighteen weeks I didn't drink anything. I was in with a personal trainer every day. That sort of all or nothing aspect of your character. How much room does it leave for the rest of life?

Matt Smith40:06

Well, that's the, you know, I think that's the balance that I'm looking for because it's either I'm either, for want of a better sort of analogy, at A or at Z. I'm either in complete and utter head boy focus mode or in sort of complete chaos. And anything in between, I'm sort of not really interested in. Are you beginning?

Presenter40:23

Are you beginning to be interested in

Matt Smith40:24

I think so. I I guess I've always had quite a big sense of adventure, which I think is quite a good thing as an actor. I've always traveled alone, even now, and there's a sense of sort of searching for something, I suppose, or something new. And a lot of the music I like has that momentum. It's there's a sort of dynamism to it.

Presenter40:42

Yeah, the dynamism too. You alluded earlier on I mean, I I tread carefully here, but you alluded earlier on to the fact that, you know, you have an imagined future. You think about, you know, given you've had such a supportive and happy family yourself, um, in your imagined future there's there's a life with that in it, clearly. Yeah. Are you thinking about that just now?

Matt Smith40:55

Yourself here.

Matt Smith41:00

Yeah.

Matt Smith41:02

Yeah, I am thinking about kids quite a lot. I'd like a lot of them.

Presenter41:07

Well you better crack on, you're thirty-five.

Matt Smith41:08

You have 35.

Matt Smith41:11

And you know, a lot of my friends are having children.

Matt Smith41:14

And dare I say, I think I'll be quite a good dad. I guess in the sort of fantasized version of my life, I have, you know, a big family and loads of dogs and all that, but whoever knows, you know, and who knows what type of dad you're ever going to be. I mean, my mum and dad, it's their Ruby wedding anniversary in March. 40 years. 40 years. It's good going, isn't it? Yeah, just a bit.

Presenter41:36

Yeah.

Presenter41:37

Uh way back at the beginning when we started talking today, you said you know there's a little bit of Eric Cantonai and all actors. Indeed, he himself has gone on to be a pretty well regarded actor. Tell me a little bit more about what you you meant by that.

Matt Smith41:44

But yeah.

Matt Smith41:48

I love Eric Cantenau.

Matt Smith41:50

I don't really like Man United but I love Eric Cannonagh. And he scored against I think it was Wimbledon and he was in Old Trafford and he he scored and he arched his back and he turned his collar up and he turned, he did a full kind of circle. You know, it was like being in the Coliseum of the whole of the stadium and he went, Yeah, I'm Eric

Matt Smith42:14

Canton are have that, I'm that good. And I think actors, whether they want to admit it or not, somewhere in the back of their brain they've gone, I want to be that good and I want that and I know what I'll say when I pick up best actor at the Oscars. I don't, I crumble. And again, it's about a bit like Pavarotti, it's that level of execution that I'm sort of interested in.

Presenter42:30

Good.

Presenter42:39

What is it that you are trying? What's the essence of what you're trying to communicate in the roles that you're in, do you think?

Matt Smith42:46

I don't know, it's a very difficult question. Obviously you sort of want to be very truthful as an actor, but it's more there's a there's a flair and there's an honesty and there's a sort of brilliance. It's kind of witnessing the idea between the painter and the and the painting. I mean the truth is I actually don't know. I think I'm still looking for that.

Presenter43:04

Tell me about your final piece of music then, Matt Smith.

Matt Smith43:06

The last one.

Matt Smith43:08

Very controversial. I have to preface this with anyone who's interested on Radio 4 should listen to a band from Germany called Superflu. Because they nearly made it in as your 8. Very nearly. I heard them this weekend and there's a song called Maybe. It's eight minutes long, but I promise you guys, stick with it, it's great. But I've gone for L C D Sound System, all my friends, because I saw them recently and there was a touch of the cantonal about it.

Matt Smith43:37

Comes up if the sun comes up If the sun comes up Then I still don't wanna stay home

Matt Smith43:50

That is the memory of

Speaker 243:55

They bring us on our beach

Speaker 244:03

You spent the first five years trying to get with the plan And the next five years

Presenter44:12

All my friends from LCD Sound System. Matt Smith, it's time now for me to give you a couple of books. You get the complete works of Shakespeare, you get the Bible, and you get to take another book too. What's your book gonna be? God, this is tough. It's all tough.

Matt Smith44:24

It's going to be either The Master and the Margarita because it's just mental and I love stories about the devil.

Matt Smith44:31

Or Birthday Letters by Ted Hughes. I'm going to go with Ted Hughes because I love Ted Hughes. He's my favourite poet and I think I can return to it more.

Presenter44:40

Birthday letters is yours, then. You are allowed you will know a luxury on this island.

Matt Smith44:44

Yeah.

Presenter44:44

What might it be?

Matt Smith44:45

How much English breakfast tea can I bring?

Presenter44:48

An endless supply

Matt Smith44:49

Done.

Presenter44:49

Do you need a special mug and do you need milk?

Matt Smith44:52

Yes, ideally. I've thought about this, and as I'm on an island I'll construct a mug, and I thought I could start using cocoanut milk in my tea.

Presenter45:01

Oh, you're a you're a brave man.

Matt Smith45:03

Take that bear grills.

Presenter45:06

Okay, it's yours. If you and I know what a terrible task it's been for you to even get it down to eight, but now I'm going to force you I know.

Matt Smith45:11

Not beautiful.

Matt Smith45:13

Yeah.

Presenter45:13

You're gonna hate me. I can't even look you in the eye here. Pick just one, would you?

Matt Smith45:15

Yeah, I know.

Matt Smith45:16

I'm looking at the list. Do you know what I'm gonna go with? Just because I think it'll be a really weird song to be stuck with for a long time on your own. Pink Floyd, great gig in the sky.

Presenter45:29

Interesting. It's yours, Matt Smith. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Matt Smith45:33

Thank you for having me.

Presenter45:44

I hope you enjoyed this edition of Desert Island Discs. You'll find over 2,000 interviews with artists, musicians, scientists, sports stars, comedians, and more at bbc.co.uk slash desertisland discs. And I have a favour to ask, if you could rate and review the Desert Island Discs podcast wherever you download your podcasts, it'll really help other people find us. Thanks again for listening.

Speaker 446:21

This is the BBC.

Speaker 446:26

Hello, I'm Elvin Bragg and just before you go, I wanted to let you know about another podcast from the BBC that I think you might like. It's called In Our Time. And each week, three expert academics join me to discuss ideas from culture, science, history, philosophy, religion. At the end of each podcast, there's more discussion we couldn't fit into the live programme. To subscribe to In Our Time, go to your usual podcast provider, search for In Our Time, click subscribe, and you can enjoy the programme and that extra content every week.