Angela Hartnett

Speaker 30:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:03

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young. Welcome to Desert Island Discs, where every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, the book, and the luxury item that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away on a desert island.

Presenter0:16

For rights' reasons, the music on these podcast versions is shorter than in the original broadcast. You can find over two thousand more editions to listen to and download on the Desert Island Disc's website.

Presenter0:48

My castaway this week is the chef Angela Hartnett. A Michelin-starred cook, she's a businesswoman too, running four busy London restaurants. She herself doesn't seem that fussed about gender politics, but in truth, a woman in charge of a high-end kitchen is still about as rare as a white truffle in the forests of Alba. They do exist, but you have to look really hard to find them. Her exceptional professional skills were forged among the copper pans and blistering heat of the country's fine dining mecca. She trained under Gordon Ramsay. But the heart in her cooking comes from home. When her beloved Italian grandmother brought out the big wooden board and pasta cutters, it was little Angela who would help her make the anolini stuffed with braised beef and veal. Decades later, as head chef at the swanky Connaught Hotel, she would cook its discerning diners that exact same dish. She says, I always knew how to cook, but I didn't see it as being a job. I saw myself running a business, opening my own small cafe, maybe. I never expected to be doing what I'm doing now, so welcome, Angela. Thank you. These days in the catering industry, you know, young people choose it as a path that they want. It is seen as somewhere with distinct steps and a hierarchy.

Speaker 31:54

Thank you.

Speaker 31:58

As a

Presenter2:04

I think at the time that you were going into catering, it was sort of where often a lot of misfits who didn't know where else they were going to work ended up. Would would that be fair?

Angela Hartnett2:11

Fair? I think it probably was fair. I mean, my mother came out with a brilliant quote once where she said about my brother and I. She said, yes, Michael's got the brains. Angela's good with her hands. You know, it's like, thanks, mum. But I think Katrine was, there was an actual article that said, I've gone into it because the building course is full up. And now you're right. It's an absolute career choice and people are fighting to get into it. I never thought when I first started, God, 30 years ago, that cooking and chefing and restaurants would be at their peak the way they are now.

Presenter2:40

Um when you are not in your professional kitchen then and and you are at home, can you be bothered to cook? I mean we hear obviously the stories of chefs saying it's basically beans on toast while I'm at home.

Angela Hartnett2:47

Sure.

Angela Hartnett2:48

Yeah, I do like cooking at home. It's far more relaxing in a sense. You have a glass of wine, you have radio four on, it's fantastic. We're in a great neighbourhood in London. We've got fantastic friends and neighbours, and I love having people around. And we always do a thing that I always call a freezer party. I empty my freezer and just cook what's in it. And I'll text me, I'll say, Right, I'm emptying the freezer, come round anyone.

Presenter3:08

But do they ask you to theirs? Because I want it's quite an intimidating thing, isn't it, to have a Michelin star chef round for supper?

Angela Hartnett3:13

Start chef round for supper. I'd come to yours, Kirsty. Uh yeah, they do actually because I'm I'm a good house guest. I bring nice wine. I'm very polite about the food. You don't go to judge. I love being invited out to eat and I love it. And generally speaking, I have some great meals when I go to my friends.

Presenter3:29

Time to listen to your first choice, then, Angela Hartnett. Tell us a little bit about this track. Why is it on your list?

Angela Hartnett3:33

It's The Killers and it's Mr. Brightside. I started getting into The Killers when I first became a head chef in London when I was running the Connaught restaurant. So I had an iPad and I said to one of my chefs, I said, right, just download all your music and I'll just delete what I don't like. And the Killers were on it and it was just a brilliant, brilliant track, brilliant album. And then since then, I've followed them.

Speaker 33:54

Jealousy, turning snakes into the sea, turning crucifies, joking on your alibis. But it's just the price I paid. Destiny is calling me. Open up my eager eyes.

Presenter4:22

That was the killers and Mr. Bright slide. So Angela Hartnett.

Presenter4:26

Molecular gastronomy, dry ice, visual puns. We won't see any of that in any of your restaurants. Why is that, then?

Angela Hartnett4:31

Any of your restaurants. Why is that then? Listen, there's a place for it. I'm not going to totally diss it. You know, it's not my style of food. And I think my style of food very much comes from the heart, comes from my roots, you know, Irish-Italian background, and just keeping it simple. I want to see skill, don't misunderstand me. I want to be able to know that my chefs can cook chicken properly and, you know, make proper puff pastry and stuff like that. But I don't want style over substance.

Presenter4:56

print articles that I've read with you, it seems that when people ask you about being a woman in your industry, it sort of slightly gets up your nose. Am I right in saying that? Yes, it's a bit of a dull question. But you see, the truth is, here's the thing. As I said in the introduction,

Angela Hartnett5:02

Who said my

Angela Hartnett5:05

But you

Presenter5:09

I'm still left with fingers on one hand when I count the amount of women who are at your level in your industry.

Angela Hartnett5:11

And then I c

Angela Hartnett5:14

Uh

Angela Hartnett5:16

I've always set thought it was hours, but I don't think that's the case anymore because I think the hours have got much better in our industry. I think pay has changed a lot. You know, we're better working environments. I could probably name you twenty.

Presenter5:28

But I'm talking about at the very upper echelon.

Angela Hartnett5:29

Yeah, probably true. At the Bury Appalachians, you're probably right. But um, I si I don't know whether it's just because historically it's always been a male dominated business or people just don't want to get into it because they want to have families or children. I'd like to think not. It's antisocial. You know, if you get in the wrong kitchen, which some people have, can be mentally draining on you.

Presenter5:48

Marcus Waring, who also came out of Gordon Ramsey's kitchen himself, of course, a Micheland starred chef, very well known, he described you once as a true grit chef.

Presenter6:00

So what characteristics do you think you have that have enabled you from your generation to make it to the top?

Angela Hartnett6:05

I think because I came into it later. All my friends went off to college and stuff. So I did that. I took a year out and I went to Italy. Then I took three years out and went to college. Then I had a year out afterwards to pay my debt. So by the time I actually got work was in my early 20s, you know, a proper job in a kitchen. And then you come in from a different perspective. You know, I worked for Gordon. He was two years older than me. So he was like my older brother. And when he used to do mad things, I would just laugh. I just couldn't take him seriously. And I think you do have to sort of think it is just food. Let's be honest. It's a plate of carrots. Let's keep things in perspective.

Presenter6:37

But when you went to work for Gordon Ramsey, then it was a a restaurant called Aubergy that was very well known in the capital and he was the next bright young thing and people were very effusive about the food that was being made in that kitchen. Is it true that when you went to work there in the beginning, the other chefs and people working in the kitchen took bets on how long you would last?

Angela Hartnett6:39

And it was

Angela Hartnett6:43

He was the next bright young thing.

Angela Hartnett6:54

Yes, yeah, apparently they all did. They all did.

Presenter6:56

How long did they think you would last?

Angela Hartnett6:57

I think Gordon always says, I knew you would last, but I don't believe him. Marcus, I think was two weeks, some of them were two days, you know. And then when I made it till Christmas, you know, they're all like, God, she's done a couple of months I mean, to be fair, I only did a year at the Open Gene, you know, that was enough for me. I mean, I went down two dress sizes. It was the best sort of, you know, place to go and sort of lose weight.

Presenter7:16

That was enough.

Angela Hartnett7:17

For you.

Presenter7:17

Uh

Angela Hartnett7:17

But

Presenter7:17

Mm.

Angela Hartnett7:18

Well, because it was a hard kitchen, which means in the sense that we were in work at seven, so we were up at six o'clock to get to work. We were working till midnight most days. We had an hour break if we were lucky, and that was six days a week. That is exhausting on your body and on your capacity. And, you know, I would wake up feeling stressful, thinking at the weekend on a Sunday, which was our weekend, by the way, Gordon would always say to me, Have you had a good weekend? I think, what weekend? I had Sunday off. This is not a weekend, you know. And I would think, have I done that? Did I put that in the freezer?

Presenter7:20

Which means

Presenter7:24

Come up.

Angela Hartnett7:49

But, you know, I I love Gordon and I think what he did for me for my career, you know, is brilliant.

Presenter7:54

Let's have your second track, Angela Hartness.

Angela Hartnett7:56

I got into Bobby Momack quite late in life actually, and since then I've been an avid follower. You know, I love his music. Unfortunately he passed away a couple of years ago. But it's just a fantastic track to sort of listen to, to mellow out to. It's just a brilliant song as much as anything.

Speaker 38:12

I was the third brother of five.

Speaker 38:15

Doing whatever I had to do to survive.

Speaker 38:20

I'm not saying what I did was alright.

Speaker 38:24

Tryna break out of the ghetto with a beta bay fight.

Speaker 38:28

Being down so long, getting up didn't cross my mind But I knew there was a better way of life and I was just trying to find

Speaker 38:37

You don't know what you do until you put under pressure.

Speaker 38:41

Cross 100 James Street of a hell of a test out.

Presenter8:46

That was Bobby Womack across one hundred and tenth Street. Um so Angela Hartnett, no surprise, I suppose, that you learned a lot about cooking from your family background, as you say it was this Italian Irish uh background, particularly from your Nona, your Italian grandmother. What sort of things did you cook with her?

Angela Hartnett8:55

What's the

Angela Hartnett9:02

Everything from making bread to making all the fresh pasta, from doing a roast. The one thing Nona wasn't great at was desserts, bizarrely enough. But my mum's always been brilliant at puddings and desserts.

Presenter9:13

What stands out in your memory?

Angela Hartnett9:14

So we always make anolini. We still do that now as a family for Christmas. Braised down beef and veal. You take the juices from the cooking, you mix it with bread and parmesan, you make the filling, the rimpiane as we call it, and then you make these little pasta shapes, you know, literally circles. And then on Christmas Day we have it in broth.

Presenter9:31

Here's what I'm wondering. How did you get the ingredients in the 19 what nineteen seventies?

Angela Hartnett9:32

How do

Angela Hartnett9:35

Khmiza and Sun, the oldest deli in um Soho, was where they sold it. And so my grandmother would send my uncle to buy the certain stuff like the parmigiano or the you know, the ricotta, he'd bring it home to Upminster and then we'd make it. Or we smuggled stuff. When I went back and forth to Italy, you never came back with an empty bag of your clothes. You had a salami in there, a piece of parmigiana, olive oil, you know. So I remember my grandma opening my bag and taking out clothes and just putting food in them.

Presenter10:03

And the family business, and this occurred and reoccurred throughout the extended family, was running fish and chip shops. It was totally.

Angela Hartnett10:06

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett10:07

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett10:09

Mm-hmm.

Presenter10:10

Why that instead of a little chattoria?

Angela Hartnett10:13

I mean, you tell me, honestly, I've asked that question how many times, you know, this whole community, you had people going up to Scotland, you had the London Italians, you know, we were Bardi, which is in Emilia-Romagna, near Bologna and Parma. This little part of it, they all went to South Wales, they all went to Ronda Valley. The next valley across, Bolgottaro, they went to London. Piacenza, they all went to Scotland, you know, and all of them had cafes, ice cream parlours occasionally. That was the one thing, ice cream, the nod to the Italians. They cooked at home Italian food, but they did not serve it. And I've never, for the love of me, understood whoever that first Italian was that went over there and said, you know what, we're going to fry fish in butter and chips. So it was good business, I guess. Very good business. They weren't trying to convert people. They were giving them what they wanted. Even the Bernie family, which were the big family from Armville, you know, they did steakhouses. We all remember the Bernie grills from the 70s and the 60s. You know, they were steakhouses and stuff.

Presenter10:55

Very good, but

Presenter10:58

Giving them what they

Presenter11:08

Let's have some more music, Angela Hartna. This is your third.

Angela Hartnett11:11

So, my third track is Simple Minds, and don't you forget about me. First band I ever saw. I thought they were brilliant bands, still do. My father passed away when we were young, so my mum had three children under 10. And as teenagers, we had quite a lot of freedom. You know, my mum was great like that and trusted us. But I did want to go and see this band, and she was adamant I wasn't going to. Don't be ridiculous, far too young, you're 14. But my brother, Fair Play to Michael, said, Come on, mum, she's sensible, she's not going to do anything stupid. And so, my mum gave in, and I went to see Simple Minds, and they were brilliant. Thanks, mum.

Speaker 311:44

Yeah.

Speaker 311:46

Forget about me.

Speaker 311:50

Don't, don't, don't, don't.

Speaker 311:55

I don't know about you.

Speaker 312:00

Will you stand above me? Look my way.

Speaker 312:07

Whoever loved me, rain keeps falling, rain keeps falling down.

Presenter12:15

That was Simple Minds and Don't You Forget About Me. So, Angela Hartnett, you were only seven when your father passed away. What do you remember of that time in your life, in your family's life?

Angela Hartnett12:20

When you

Angela Hartnett12:23

We lived in Kent at the time because my father was in the merchant navy. My brother, who was nearly nine, my sister had just been born, she wasn't even one years old. And I do remember going to the hospital. We looked at everything attached to dad, and he said, You go, Dad's got to be really ill. You know, look at all the things that attach to him. And then we came up to Essex, where both sets of grandparents lived. He was becoming worse, and they obviously knew he wasn't going to survive and live. And we were sent with my auntie, and it was my dad's sister that told us he'd passed away. And it, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's great for any child. It was horrible. I suppose it made us incredibly close as a family. Yeah, I mean, yeah, sorry, you sort of think about it now, you get emotional and stuff. I do remember sitting on my grandmother's stairs with my brother and him putting his arms around me. Those sort of moments, you know, it's horrible. Yeah, not great for a kid. Him and my mum, I think, were brilliant. You know, they both got married a bit later for their generation in their 30s. So they both lived their life. He was a great bachelor in the Navy and he did this amazing album, my father. He loved taking photographs. And the last page but one, there was a picture of his wedding. And he always put comments and he put the comment, he put the end, and then he flipped the page. There's a picture of my brother, and he goes, The living end. And that was the end of the album. That's my bachelor life. Now I'm married, you know.

Presenter13:17

Set

Presenter13:34

It was the end of the album.

Presenter13:37

When you look back now and you think of your mother, you say her youngest child was not even a year old when her husband died.

Angela Hartnett13:42

No.

Angela Hartnett13:43

Uh

Presenter13:44

What do you make of how she coked at the time? Because that is an extraordinarily difficult set of cards to be dealt.

Angela Hartnett13:50

Absolutely. I think what she did do is she made us fiercely independent quicker than we probably would have been. When we moved up to London, we would get the tube up to town. We would go up to Soho and we were eleven, twelve, you know, and whereas a lot of people these days won't do that. My mum trusted us and had to trust us. Otherwise, you know, how do you cope with three kids?

Presenter14:08

Did you have jobs then as a youngster, you know, thirteen, fourteen? What did you do to earn a lot of things?

Angela Hartnett14:11

Team

Angela Hartnett14:13

I was uh I had everything. I did a paper round, I worked in McDonald's. Did you work in the fish and chip shop? I worked for my mu my grandmother's one just before they sold it. I used to do it on a Friday night. I'd leave school, get the tube to Becon Tree, do the chips. That's was my job was basically taking the chips, putting them in the chipper and then bringing them to the shop.

Presenter14:16

Did you work?

Angela Hartnett14:31

They're not frozen chips, right? No, no, yeah, yeah. You had, you know, you had the potato peeler that would peel all the potatoes, go into a bizarrely a bath. What a bath bath. Literally a bath bath, the weirdest thing ever. And then I'd pick them out of there and then put them in the chipping machine. From the chipping machine, take them into the fish and chip shop.

Presenter14:32

No, no, these are yeah, yeah, you have

Presenter14:38

A bath bath.

Presenter14:41

Where do you see?

Presenter14:48

Your next track, Angela Hardhouse. What is this? This is your fourth.

Angela Hartnett14:50

Please stay.

Angela Hartnett14:51

So my fourth track is Blur Country House. Again, it's not necessarily about a major part of my life. I suppose this was the 90s, was it Blur and Oasis? And I was always a Blur fan. I loved Damon. I thought he was very attractive, still do. And loved seeing them playing gigs. You know, saw them at V Festival. You know, they're Essex boys. I like them.

Speaker 315:09

House, very big house in the country.

Speaker 315:13

Watching after me relates and after the eights in the country

Speaker 315:19

He takes a banner of pails and plies a banana spells in the country

Speaker 315:24

Oh, it's like an animal farm, that's a real charm in the country.

Speaker 315:30

He's got morning glory and life's a different story. Everything's going jack and jory In touch with his own talents

Presenter15:40

That was blur and country house. Uh Angela Hartness, after you had finished school, you went to Italy for a year, is that right? You worked as an au pair?

Angela Hartnett15:47

Yeah, I worked in uh Torino for an as an au pair for a year. They spoke no English, I spoke no Italian, although I'd been brought up no, we didn't speak Italian growing up, my mother never spoke it to us, my grandmother would say the odd words and stuff. So it was great actually. It's where I learnt Italian.

Presenter16:01

You then went after being an OPER to study history. Did you have an idea of how you were going to make a living at that point? You know, why history and and what did you think would come after it?

Angela Hartnett16:05

It did

Angela Hartnett16:10

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett16:11

I did sort of at that stage say, I want to be a cook, mum, I want to run a restaurant. You know, I did want to go into the business.

Presenter16:15

You know, I did want to

Angela Hartnett16:17

And my mum said, well, go to France or do a Cordon Bleu course. You know, what on earth are you going to do? History. And I said, well, if it all fails, I can then use that degree to do something. You know, I thought I could, I don't know, be go in a library or be a teacher, whatever. I just thought it was important to have a degree behind you. And also, I didn't want to start work so young. And all my friends were at college. You know, my brother was at college. You know, you didn't want to be the one not doing that. I was at Cambridge Poly. And then after I sort of finished studying, I stayed in Cambridge for a couple of years, was going out with someone, worked in local restaurants, and then started to get serious, a bit more serious about being a chef.

Presenter16:53

So when you first worked in a professional kitchen and you were making your living as a I guess not a chef, but a cook, what sort of stuff were you cooking?

Angela Hartnett16:56

Good to see you.

Angela Hartnett17:00

Yes.

Angela Hartnett17:02

Club sandwiches, we were doing burgers, all that sort of fast food. Then I went to work in a fantastic pub called The Free Press run by this American lady and her husband. And she really believed in good, honest cooking. And she, you know, made homemade pies, fresh soup. To me, that was one of the first gastro pubs I felt. And then eventually ended up working for Gordon when I really started taking it seriously.

Presenter17:23

And why did you start taking it seriously?

Angela Hartnett17:25

By that time, I'd worked abroad for a bit, and then it was like, Do I stay abroad or do I come back to London? And yeah, my family were all in London. I didn't want to live in Cambridge anymore. I went and did lots of what we call starges, where you go and spend a day in a kitchen. I went to the Aubergine, and I just loved it. I loved the adrenaline. I thought he was amazing. The food was incredible. And then it wasn't until, you know, after as I started my first day, I think it was nine o'clock, I came in. And then that night as I left, Marcus said to me, he goes, You know, it's seven o'clock, you have to start. And I was like, oh, okay, seven o'clock.

Angela Hartnett17:57

I'll see you at seven tomorrow. Excellent.

Presenter18:00

Let's have some more music, Angela Hartness. We're going to listen to your fifth now. Why have you chosen this?

Angela Hartnett18:05

The Jackson Sisters, I believe in miracles. I suppose it's for all my friends. I love this tune. I love dancing to it. It's probably one of my best dance tracks ever. And my friend and I, Lara, when we were at college, we always used to go to

Angela Hartnett18:18

It was one of the Cambridge colleges and we were at the Polly but we they always used to do these dance nights on a Monday night and we'd always go to them and sort of dance the night away. I mean that's why I had no money. I was dancing on a Monday night. Who one else did that? And this was one of the tracks I loved so it really reminds me of sort of Cambridge days.

Speaker 318:45

They say the day is ending. Let's watch the sun go down and plan a holiday for two

Speaker 318:54

For all eternity, ride a cloud so you can see the world I've created just for you.

Presenter19:03

That was the Jackson Sisters and I Believe in Miracles. Memories for you, Angela, of your dancing days, Cambridge.

Angela Hartnett19:08

Cambridge.

Angela Hartnett19:09

Do you have time to dance still? I do still love going to gigs. I still love going to things like festivals, the Isle of Wight, and stuff like that. I love dancing.

Presenter19:17

Both you and your partner are are professional chefs. Is it a case of sort of do you fight over the kitchen knives at home of who who gets to cook?

Angela Hartnett19:25

No, we've learnt early on not to not to try and cook together. We used to do that a bit, and then Neil makes so much mess. He's a brilliant cook and he's got a great palate, but God, he's messy, and it drives me insane at home.

Angela Hartnett19:38

How did you meet? We met. Neil used to work with me. He started at the Connault when I was running the Connaught.

Presenter19:45

So he worked for

Angela Hartnett19:45

He worked for me, yes. And we always were good friends. You know, even though he was my employee, we always got on very well. He always made me laugh. He's quite a lot younger than me. And then he went off to France. And I used to go and see him. I'd go out for, you know, see where he was working. We'd go out to eat and stuff. And just towards this end of this time in France, we sort of got together, shall we say. Then it felt right. It hadn't felt right up until then. Even though I think we probably both admit we had feelings for each other, he felt too young for me. And then I was his boss. So now we didn't work together. It felt the right thing to do.

Presenter20:19

And so the Connaught, we should remind people, this very old established dining room of one of London's grandest hotels. You took it over in 2002.

Angela Hartnett20:20

Uh

Angela Hartnett20:23

Uh

Presenter20:28

There was great, so I think, I think it'd be fair to use the word outrage. Outrage.

Angela Hartnett20:34

It is the idea that

Presenter20:34

They hated the idea that there would be a female chef. Is it fair to say that? Yeah, definitely. And also that she was going to cook Italian foods.

Angela Hartnett20:38

Yes, yeah. Is it fair to say that? Yeah, definitely.

Presenter20:45

I know. Were you ready for the amount of disgust that was on display? I certainly wasn't.

Angela Hartnett20:48

I certainly wasn't. I'd say I probably won about ninety percent of them over. Some are still customers of mine today that come to me at Murano. But there were some that would ring up and go, She's still there? Is she still cooking? And Lilia, who was the receptionist at the time, would go, Yes, Angela is still here.

Angela Hartnett21:03

How can I help? I'd like to book a table. She said, Do you really want to book a table? You know, you don't like her, you don't like her food. And, you know, but they loved the conaught, so they would come back and back. And actually, those sort of customers, not the ones that didn't like me, but the ones who did eventually come around and love the food, because we weren't, we didn't become a trattoria. You know, we had Italian influence on the menu, but we weren't suddenly a pizza parlour. They loved the food and then would come back time and time again. And they are your ideal customers, you know, because they'll be loyal to you for years. And so.

Presenter21:32

You and Neil have have been together for a good long while and I I hear that is it true you're getting married?

Angela Hartnett21:35

And I

Angela Hartnett21:37

Yes, we're getting married this year.

Presenter21:39

And

Angela Hartnett21:39

And

Presenter21:39

I'm hoping that he took you to a three-starred Michelin restaurant and got down on one knee to propose, did he?

Angela Hartnett21:44

No, not at all, Kirsty. In his underpants in our bedroom. That was it. And every man since has said, brilliant, we don't have to do any of that nonsense of, you know, three star Michelin and all the rest of it. But that's Neil. He's just himself.

Presenter21:56

He's just himself.

Angela Hartnett21:57

Yeah.

Presenter21:57

He was involved in a a really very serious accident about five years ago. Um you you you had everybody's nightmare, the police knocking at your door

Angela Hartnett21:59

Smooth.

Angela Hartnett22:04

The police

Angela Hartnett22:06

ungodly are in the morning.

Presenter22:07

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett22:07

He came off his uh bike and bizarrely the one time in his life he didn't wear a helmet. Came off his bike one in the morning and he was in uh police on the door. They said, Do you and oh incredible how they did it'cause his last phone had been to call in me, so they managed to open his phone and could dial my realize where I was and where I lived.

Angela Hartnett22:25

And they said we have to take you to the hospital. And obviously, the policy is they don't tell you anything. So you're in a police van going to the hospital and they can't tell you whether he's alive or dead. And I was there at the hospital for two, three hours. He's lying there in a coma. They put him into an induced coma because the pressure on his head. And that's what they just didn't want anything to happen. And then he was there for seven days on these really huge, strong, strong painkillers, drugs, etc. And then they had to operate that to open up his head because the pressure was so much he would have hemorrhaged. Then he was obviously in recovery for the next six, twelve months. And still to a level, it will be with you for his life, you know, because brain, as they say, the biggest thing is rest, rest, rest. And it takes years to have full recovery.

Presenter22:44

Uh

Presenter23:12

Let's have some more music, Angela Hartness. We're on your uh your sixth.

Angela Hartnett23:16

So I suppose this track is for Neil. You know, I was going to do the proclaimers because we do love that and we'll probably play that at the wedding. But it is Burt Bacharat. It's a great song. What the world needs now is love. And, you know, Neil and I, I do like listening to music at home and I always have a little boogie and we do love. He's a great dancer. You know, he's got rhythm, Neil, he's a great dancer. So we do love a little boogie together.

Speaker 323:41

Please.

Speaker 323:43

It's love, sweet love.

Speaker 323:47

It's the only thing that best just

Speaker 323:53

Judilla, what the one

Speaker 323:56

This now

Speaker 323:58

It's love.

Speaker 324:00

Sweet laughter

Speaker 324:02

No, not just for some, oh but you

Presenter24:08

What the world needs now is love, Burt Bacharach. We are I mean we're swimming in rarefied waters today when we talk about all these things be because of course you know we have record numbers of food banks in Britain and many people struggle to do even a weekly shop within their budget.

Speaker 324:14

Damn.

Angela Hartnett24:15

Uh

Angela Hartnett24:18

Food banks in Britain are many

Presenter24:24

What do you make of that, this apparent two tier culture, whereby predominantly, I would say, in London and in some other big cities, you have these very fine restaurants where diners will pay up to one hundred and fifty pounds a plate to sit and have lunch.

Speaker 324:30

Mm-hmm.

Angela Hartnett24:31

Come on.

Speaker 324:31

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett24:37

To sit and have lunch.

Presenter24:38

And the rest of the country is very much not doing that.

Angela Hartnett24:41

When people sit there and say we're a foodie nation, we have a food culture. I genuinely don't think we still do. I don't think we're like the Italians or the Spanish, that everyone from the person who just lives in one flat will go and buy a chicken, and then the one who lives in the villa will go and buy a chicken, and everyone can afford that chicken. Our food culture is about money. People who have money can afford good food in this country. You think when you haven't got any money, you're living on a low-income. To patronise and sit there and say you've got to have an organic chicken is wrong. And I think there's such disparity between low-income family. I mean, I did a TV programme where this mother was living off hot tea. That's what she lived on to feed her daughter. And what she fed her daughter was one pound meals. And then everyone sits and goes, Well, God, it's terrible. There's horse in there. But what else is going to be in there for you making something for one pound? Of course it's going to be. And that's what's wrong. And, you know, we've lost home economics in a lot of schools. You know, people aren't taught to shop. People don't have the time to shop and the time to cook. Everyone says we're a more unhealthy nation than ever. And yet we're not doing anything about it. It almost sounds.

Presenter25:46

Like too big a problem to fix as you describe it. It is it is an absolute root and branch.

Angela Hartnett25:48

We describe it.

Angela Hartnett25:52

John's cultural problem

Presenter25:53

Problem that we

Angela Hartnett25:53

And also we're such a consumer society. You know, like, you know, your iPhone breaks, you get another one. And there's a bit of that in food as well. You know, I remember my grandmother, you went into her fridge and everything was covered with a saucer. She threw nothing away. And it's my big bug bearer. You throw anything away. You don't throw anything away. It goes to staff food. You use it up. You know, there's no waste. You know, and we're a bit lazy like that these days.

Presenter26:20

Let's have some more music now Angela. We're on your uh your penultimate disc, your seventh. What are we gonna hear? Why have you chosen this?

Angela Hartnett26:26

So it's Nessendorma. There's probably two reasons. One, I'm a bit of a football fan, and I think when Italy won the World Cup, I was able to go. So I went to Germany and I saw Italy beat France in the World Cup. And I suppose it's a great thank you to my family. I have an incredibly loving family, incredibly good family. Everyone seems to get on. Yeah, we have our moments and me and my mum will argue and everything and all the rest of it. But, you know, I don't think I could do my job without them. You know, the amount of times in London that I'd miss the night bus home and I'd ring my uncle and say, Can I stay the night with you? and those sort of things. Or I'd live with my aunt for the first year at the Aubergine. You know, she used to have a taxi, wake up the whole house at six o'clock when I was going to work. So it's a sort of a bit of a thank you to all of them.

Presenter28:09

Nessen Dormer from Puccini's opera Tour and Dot, sung there by Luciano Pavarosi, with the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Zubin Mehta. I'm sure you are asked all the time to give young aspiring chefs advice. What what do you tell them about your business? Because, goodness knows it is a very harsh mistress.

Angela Hartnett28:28

It's not a life for everyone. I think you've got to love it. I think the moment you decide actually, God, why am I doing this? Get out. Because it will show in your food, it will show in your service, it will show in your restaurant. It will show you don't care. And I think we've all been to restaurants where we see they've stopped caring. I think it is quite an emotional business and I think you have to really want to believe in it and love it. And I say to any young cook, decide what you want to do and stick with it. If you want to do burgers, nothing wrong with that. do the best burgers. If you want to be a pizza chef, make the best pizza. If you want to do fine dining, stick with it. Find out in the early days what you want to do and stick with it. And train. Don't leave somewhere so quickly. You know, there's lots of people. I stayed with one guy for 17 years. I don't think you have to do that, but a lot of people now it's six months, six months. Stick with a kitchen for two years because you see the seasons. You've got to see a kitchen through the year.

Presenter29:21

What do you think, for all your success and profile and achievements, what do you think your biggest sacrifice has been?

Angela Hartnett29:29

Um

Angela Hartnett29:31

There probably is an element of family. Yeah, I d I never consciously said I'm not having children. And then when I wanted to have children, it was too late and realized that I couldn't, if I'm absolutely honest. Cars on the table. And by then I'd I'd got to my mid forties and it was like, Well, actually, you can't. And if you want to try, it's going to be really difficult. You know, we did try, we did all the IVF and everything and it just didn't work. And if I'd realized that early on, it probably would have happened. But I was working and working and working. And I don't wake up every morning going, Oh, I wish I've had a great

Angela Hartnett30:01

extended family. But I sort of look at my nephews and I've got, you know, nieces and I sort of think it'd be great for them to have cousins'cause we had really lovely cousins and we were very close. So that's one regret, unfortunately. But other than that, I think I'm very happy with what's gone on.

Presenter30:15

And it's a terrible cliched question to ask a chef, but I just can't resist it. What's what's your desert island dish?

Angela Hartnett30:21

Yeah.

Presenter30:24

One meal again what would that meal be?

Angela Hartnett30:27

Analini. My grandmother's Annolini.

Presenter30:28

My grandmother's Annalena.

Angela Hartnett30:29

They're the pastor in broth.

Presenter30:31

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett30:31

Yeah.

Angela Hartnett30:32

Definitely.

Presenter30:33

And is that adorned with anything? Do you put Parmesan on it?

Angela Hartnett30:35

A little bit of parmesan, but not much. It's all in the broth. And I remember one year Neil made it, and he'd made it far too rich. And on Christmas Day, my mother just pushed it aside and said, no, no, didn't eat it at all. And the whole, that's just 30 people round this table going, oh my God. And my uncle and aunt were sneakily eating it, you know. And then the next year, Neil made it again. Although I'm the next year, Neil made it, but we didn't tell my mum he'd made it. And she said, no, it worn off. She goes, well done, Neil, well done, you know.

Presenter31:04

Angela, let's have your final track then. Tell me about this eighth one.

Angela Hartnett31:06

Tell me about this

Angela Hartnett31:08

Final track, George, Michael, and Aretha Franklin. I knew you were waiting for me. Brilliant, brilliant track. You know, I suppose it's because I'm getting older that you suddenly have lots of people that you've looked up to when you were younger passing away. And I think George died far too early. I think, you know, I think he was absolute huge talent. I saw him numerous times in concert. I saw him in Italy, it was the first time I saw him actually when I was au pairing over there and he was touring. And he was fantastic. And then last time I saw him was at Wembley with one of my best friends. And I think his music's ageless.

Speaker 331:38

River was fish.

Speaker 331:40

I didn't fall down. When the mountain was high, I still be near.

Speaker 331:47

Barry was though he didn't stop me throwing you all

Presenter32:09

I knew you were waiting George Michael and Aretha Franklin. It's time for the books, Angela. You get the Bible, you get the complete works of Shakespeare, and you will take what along with them.

Angela Hartnett32:18

Emma by Jane Austen. It's a book I studied when I did my A-levels. I did English A-level, but I loved Austin. You know, I really still do. More than the Brontys, you know, they were sort of your two female writers that, you know, the Bronte's this is, but Austin, for me, and I loved Emma. It was just, to me, it's her smartest book. Everyone talks about pride and prejudice, but I thought the way Emma was written, and even having studied it, I still can pick it up and read it again. That's yours.

Presenter32:45

What about a luxury?

Angela Hartnett32:46

Yeah, I was struggling with that one because, you know, I mean, I'd love to take a dog. You'd like to take another human being, but you're not allowed to. And actually, it sounds vain, but it's not vain. Face cream.

Angela Hartnett32:57

Just because it's the one thing. I don't I'm not somebody who's extravagant on loads of clothes and all the rest of it, but I do spend money on face screen. How much do you spend? Probably about fifty quid on a jar.

Presenter33:08

Oh

Angela Hartnett33:08

Which, you know, is expensive really because you're in a hot, hot kitchen and it's the one thing every day I put cream on. And people always say, God, your skin's good which is my mother's skin. I've inherited that from her for sure. But also I have over the years spent a lot of money on face cream. We shall give you that then for your island.

Presenter33:24

We shall give you that then for your

Angela Hartnett33:27

If you had to save j

Presenter33:27

It's one of the tracks, which one would it be?

Angela Hartnett33:30

I think it would be Jackson Sisters, I believe in miracles.

Presenter33:33

Dancing on your island. Dancing on my island, putting on my face scream. Angela Hartnett, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Angela Hartnett33:33

Dance signal

Angela Hartnett33:40

Thank you. It's been an absolute...

Presenter33:41

Pleasure.

Presenter34:03

I hope you enjoyed that interview with the chef Angela Hartnett. You'll find over 2,000 more programmes to listen to at bbc.co.uk slash desertisland discs, including editions with Nigella Lawson, Jamie Oliver, Prue Leith and Antonio Carluccio. And I've got a little favour to ask. If you could rate and review the programmes wherever you download your podcasts, then it'll really help other people find us. Thanks again for listening.

Speaker 334:38

This Is that

Speaker 434:39

The B B C

Speaker 434:42

Oh hey, fancy meeting you here. I'm Sindhu V, and if you enjoyed that, why not let Radio 4's Comedy of the Week podcast into your feed? I host the podcast, and here's what happens. I bring you comedy fresh out of Radio 4's Funny Factory. Sometimes I bring you interviews with writers and performers, and a little bit of my take on the world and what's going on.

Presenter34:48

Yeah.

Speaker 435:06

Just search for Comedy of the Week on your favorite podcast app, subscribe, and it'll be available for you every Monday morning.