Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Eight records
It was played in its heyday when I was with Grenadier Guards and went after the end of the 1418 War when I was 17. The Gaz Band played it. He's played everywhere being played since and it's significant that I happened to have won on the ERA car, the Grand Prix of Picardy on two occasions, therefore it means a lot to me.
Love Will Find a WayFavourite
Because that means a terrific amount to me. I was taken to see Josie Collins when I was a schoolboy by my parents at Daly's Theatre. She made a terrific impact on me with a sensational appearance, the black hair, the flashing eyes. The superb voice went sent shivers down my spine. And during the run of the maid of the mounds, I might add, from my school days through my days in the gardens and my days at Cambridge, I saw it eighty-four times.
That song was written by a fellow called Paul Rubens, you obviously know of, Roy, who wrote many musical plays. And he wrote that song dedicated to Phyllis. And it brings back very happy memories of the tune and the person I know.
That too means a lot to me personally, brings a lot of sentimental memories back to me and also I was so impressed when I first saw the picture of the Wizard of Oz. I'm afraid I rather like these dreamy fantasies and all this floating through the clouds. And hearing Judy Garland, when she was very young, sing this song. Again, it impressed me, I think, forever, and I shall always remember it, always pleased to hear it.
I think I can give you the starlight as the most lovely tune, lovely members, lovely melody and lovely words. And uh when I used to go to Drury Lane, to hear this, uh Mary had sent view various numbers to sing. Sometimes this was cut out, but whenever I went I sent a little note round to her dressery room to say I'm in the audience, could she possibly sing it? and she always did.
Doretta Morrow and Richard Kiley
It's a tune that I loved. I love Kismet. I love the singing of Doretta Morrow and Richard Kiley. Uh I like the melody. I like the words. And uh it's often played, as you know, throughout the world on orchestras. And if it isn't played, I think wherever I am, I often ask them to play it, and it's one of my favourites.
This again brings back many memories to me by a very very favorite artist of mine Benny Hale
I love the Merry Widow music. And I adore June Bronhill's singing of the of the Meadow Widow Waltz. And I think Lahar is my favourite composer. I saw him once. ... I adore his music and I shall always adore the Merry Widow.
The keepsakes
The book
Gaiety: Theatre of Enchantment
W. MacQueen-Pope
without being conceited, motor racing is in my brain and I know it from when I started right up to today. Theatre I know and love, but I mean I still like reminding myself of it and looking who played in what in what year. And I think I should take a book called Gaiety, a theatre of enchantment, for I'm a queen pope.
The luxury
Not recorded.
In conversation
Presenter asks
Are you a musical person?
Yes, I am a musical person. I'm very fond of music. I don't play any instrument. I play the piano a little once, but never having had time through my career, I don't play, but I love music.
Presenter asks
Your father was a motor racing man before you?
Yes, Roy, he was. My father was a pioneer motorist, so I think that probably set the seal on my keenness, but I was always mad about motor cars. I leave when I was in school at Arnold. Uh I didn't pay enough attention to work. I waited for the autocar moment to come out to read about the races.
Presenter asks
What happened to you when you came down from Cambridge?
Well, officially I started my father's business'cause I had to earn a living. Uh but at the back of my mind I was determined to motor race somehow or other. And finally I managed by hook or by crook to buy a Bugatte, which was then a very fine racing car. And it was on that Bilgatti and another one that I sort of really did make my name in motor racing.
The recording
Timestamps play the recording from that turn
Speaker 1
Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a download from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 1
This is a recording as it was being broadcast rather than the studio recording, and for that reason you may hear some interference and some degradation in the sound quality.
Speaker 2
As usual, the castaway is introduced by Roy Plumley.
Speaker 2
Uh castaway the
Presenter
This week, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Presenter
is the ex-racing driver and builder of racing cars, Raymond Mays.
Presenter
Right.
Presenter
Are you a musical person? Yes, I am a musical person. I'm very fond of music. I don't play any instrument. I play the piano a little once, but never having had time through my career, I don't play, but I love music. You play records a lot? Yes, a lot.
Presenter
What would you want these ape records to do for you on a desert island? To bring back memories through the years.
Presenter
Uh of all sorts of incidents, sad ones, pleasant ones, and all the rest. That's why, really. What's the first one? Well, the first one is Roses of Picaday, and that means a lot to me because uh
Presenter
It was played in its heyday when I was with Grenadier Guards and went after the end of the 1418 War when I was 17.
Presenter
The Gaz Band played it.
Presenter
He's played everywhere being played since and it's significant that I happened to have won on the ERA car, the Grand Prix of Picardy on two occasions, therefore it means a lot to me. Yes. Who's playing it on this record? Uh well Fred Emley, superbly in his own uh initiable way and uh talking the words very sweetly.
Raymond Mays
Frozen
Raymond Mays
Abstaining
Raymond Mays
In the hut
Raymond Mays
Of the silvery
Raymond Mays
The roses
Raymond Mays
A flowering.
Raymond Mays
Yeah.
Raymond Mays
But there's never
Raymond Mays
Neil Road.
Presenter
Redim
Presenter
Watch your second record.
Presenter
Uh Love Will Find a Way from The Maid of the Mountains sung by Josie Collin.
Raymond Mays
Yeah.
Presenter
Mm-hmm.
Raymond Mays
Yeah.
Presenter
What?
Presenter
Oh, because that means a terrific amount to me. I was taken to see Josie Collins when I was a schoolboy by my parents at Daly's Theatre.
Presenter
She made a terrific impact on me with a sensational appearance, the black hair, the flashing eyes.
Presenter
The superb voice went sent shivers down my spine.
Presenter
And during the run of the maid of the mounds, I might add, from my school days through my days in the gardens and my days at Cambridge, I saw it eighty-four times.
Presenter
So I know if I could tell you today the opening bars and the end bars, I think, of the Maid of the Mountains, I saw Josie in it every time, and later in the latter year she became a great friend of mine.
Presenter
uh right up to when she died, and I'd all be a terrific admirer of hers.
Raymond Mays
If before the girl, my friend, I'll stay. No fate could turn me with a dismay.
Raymond Mays
Love holds the key to set me free.
Raymond Mays
Boom below.
Raymond Mays
We'll fall on
Presenter
Josie Collins.
Presenter
Ray, I believe your father was a motor racing man before you. Yes, Roy, he was. My father was a pioneer motorist, so I think that probably set the seal on my keenness, but I was always mad about motor cars.
Presenter
I leave when I was in school at Arnold.
Presenter
Uh I didn't pay enough attention to work. I waited for the autocar moment to come out to read about the races. But my father did. He ran uh he had a Napier, which was a great car those days, and a vauxhall.
Presenter
and he ran these in in local competitions in Grimthorpe Park.
Presenter
You were racing at Brooklyn's as a as an undergraduate. Yes, I was an undergraduate at Cambridge when I first raced at Brooklyn. I had my first win there, which meant a lot to me. Yes.
Presenter
What happened to you when you came down from Cambridge?
Presenter
Well, officially I started my father's business'cause I had to earn a living.
Presenter
Uh but at the back of my mind I was determined to motor race somehow or other.
Presenter
And finally I managed by hook or by crook to buy a Bugatte, which was then a very fine racing car.
Presenter
And it was on that Bilgatti and another one that I sort of really did make my name in motor racing.
Presenter
Well the motor racing scene in the twenties and thirties was dominated by the Continental Company.
Presenter
Yes, in the 20s and 30s it was dominated by the Italians and the Germans when they came back again after the war when they were allowed to race.
Presenter
And right up of course in 39 when the Germans really did dominate and I mean they knocked the Italians out by then. They had the best drivers and of course they were subsidized by the German government vast sums of money and it was used apart from anything else as a propaganda weapon.
Presenter
You became the number one works driver for the ERA, the English racing automobile. That's right, yes. This was a a light car. This was what they call a voicherette class, yes. It's one and a half litre. Yes.
Presenter
But this little ERA just set the seal on motor racing and we raced all over the world and we did very, very well on it and it created a great impression I think for England this little ERA did. Yes. And at the outbreak of war you were the number one racing driver in the country and you had a dream of a British Crand Prix car that would
Presenter
Wipe the ball.
Speaker 1
Yes.
Presenter
It sort of brought home in full force to me when I did a motor racing tour of South Africa in the RA and the Grand Prix were Johannesburg, East London and Cape Town.
Presenter
and I followed the German Auto Union team which had been there the year before.
Presenter
And uh as I say, it frightened me and shattered me the impression that had been left behind of the might of Germany in engineering. And of course the Germans, the days of Hitler, they used that to the full. They were trying to intimidate, without any question of doubt, and the motor racing weapon was a weapon was a very good way of doing it.
Presenter
And they sold
Presenter
Everything connected with engineering ran the successes of their motor cars. And that made me more keen than ever to say that we to do something. Well, the war came along and stopped you doing anything about it for a few years. At this point, I think we'll break for your third record.
Presenter
What makes?
Presenter
The third record is I Love the Moon.
Presenter
Well now that's a record which means a lot to me, because I love the tune, I love the words, and it all reminds me of Phyllis Dare, a great musical comedist who is a has been for a long while and still is a great personal friend of mine.
Presenter
And their song was written by a fellow called Paul Rubens, you obviously know of, Roy, who wrote many musical plays.
Speaker 1
Many new
Presenter
And he wrote that song dedicated to Phyllis.
Presenter
and it brings back very happy memories of the tune and the person I know.
Presenter
I Love the Moon played by Russ Conway. Now, Ray, the war was over, motor racing was starting up again. What happened?
Presenter
Well, uh Peter Vertham, who had been with me for many years, who designed the RA, had worked with me since he came out of the Air Force at the age of nineteen.
Presenter
He had in the meantime sketched during the war designs of what we would like to build after the war if we could find the money.
Presenter
And his idea really turned out to be what was the V sixteen BRM, which was the uh origin which was the original BRM. How did you get the money? Oh, that was a nightmare. I repaired a sort of a white paper.
Presenter
And I got the names of various industrialists royal all over the country, people I thought might be interested.
Presenter
And in this paper I said the shawl in eye is the time to wave the British flag, to show what we can do.
Presenter
Well I had letters back
Presenter
Some rather despondently saying that now wasn't the time, rather to feed a statue, which upset me, but equally equally I had two very nice letters back, one from
Presenter
The person is now Sir Alfred Owen, who then was Alfred Owen, boss of the vast Rubarain organisation.
Presenter
And the other one was from the late Oliver Lucas, with an equally big firm. They wrote me letters that cheered me up.
Presenter
And they said I could go and see them, put my case to them, and they were the first two people to support this all-out British effort. Yes. Now, were there the right people in the country with the right experience, designers, engineers? Oh, yes, I think that, because I'd had quite a bunch around me in the RA days and my motor racing career. I had every faith in Peter Burfam.
Speaker 1
Oh we
Presenter
And also with engineers with the caliber of Harry Mundy helped us who is now a big boy Jaguars, Walter Hassan who's a big boy Jaguars now, people like Eric Richter and Frank May, all first-class head draftsmen and engineers. I'd no question in thinking we could not do it from that angle. Yes. Now this wasn't just a matter of one chap at a drawing board. I was amazed to read in your book that there were 25,000 hours in the drawing office went into that cost. Yes, it's quite fantastic, Roy. One doesn't believe it.
Speaker 1
Well
Speaker 1
Good.
Presenter
It originated through in Peter Bertham's house in London with having two draftsmen plus Peter and we got collected them together when we started at Bourne and they sweated blood day in day out with the drawings of this B16, this very complicated bit of machinery. How did it do with its first race? Well it was called a fiasco. It was very bad luck. We had a great driver, French driver Raymond Sommer.
Presenter
We'll drive it to Silverstone.
Presenter
But very unfortunately the pot joint which is part of the drive shaft of the back broke through faulty material and it never started in that first race. In fact you had hard luck for a season or two. We did have hard luck but you must remember Roy it was a very very ambitious design and even to this day it still could be called futuristic. We probably aimed too high too soon with too little money. When did the car eventually justify itself? Well uh
Presenter
The formula ended too soon. Quite frankly, I think the Italians were a little afraid that we were going to succeed.
Presenter
We had to run it in what I call the form of the Leabe races, but the great day when it justified itself was when, to my mind, the greatest driver in the world drove it, and that was the great Fangio and the Grand Prix of Albay, which was a big race then. And even this was nineteen fifty three, the year of the coronation.
Presenter
And we he put up an epic performance.
Presenter
And I mean, he's just definitely quicker than Ferrari.
Presenter
Quicker than anybody, he lost the race.
Presenter
Having won the heat through the terrific speed of the cars and tires giving trouble,
Presenter
Uh but I mean anybody who saw that race will always remember it. And to this day people talk about that race, showing what the BIM could do. That must have been a good day for you after what, seven years of hard work. Oh, absolutely. I mean it lifted us up into heaven almost.
Speaker 1
Oh, absolutely.
Presenter
Let's have another record.
Presenter
Uh over the rainbow, yes. Well now that too means a lot to me personally, brings a lot of sentimental.
Presenter
Memories back to me and also I was so impressed when I first saw the picture of the Wizard of Oz.
Presenter
I'm afraid I rather like these dreamy fantasies and all this floating through the clouds.
Presenter
And hearing Judy Garland, when she was very s young, sing this song.
Presenter
Again, it impressed me, I think, forever, and I shall always remember it, always pleased to hear it.
Raymond Mays
Some day I'll wish upon a star And wake up where the clouds are far behind me Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops
Raymond Mays
That's where you fall.
Raymond Mays
From where?
Raymond Mays
Run around.
Presenter
Pure degard.
Presenter
Now the BRM eventually won the World Championship Series. That's right, Roy, in 1962.
Presenter
And of course with great joy for everybody with Graham Hill.
Speaker 1
From Hill
Presenter
Yes, let me say this. Graham Hill I think helped us to win the World Championship and we helped Graham Hill to become the great driver that he is still.
Presenter
Now looking back on your own driving career, which race do you think back on most?
Presenter
It's awfully difficult, uh this, but I suppose uh you always have a favourite race to think about.
Presenter
Yes, I think possibly the one that uh I look back upon is when I won the Eiffel Renner, the Nürburg Ring in Germany.
Presenter
And as you will know, the Muhrrburg Ring is one of the most exacting and exciting and difficult circuits in the world.
Presenter
Fourteen and a half miles round in the Eiffel Mountains with every type of corner.
Presenter
And I ran the as number one driver on the RA and I managed to win this race after several battles with the late Dick Seaman, foreign drivers on Maseratis.
Presenter
And to receive the checkered flag before a crowd of something like 600,000 people, Roy is always a thrill.
Presenter
Let's have record number five.
Presenter
Mm.
Presenter
I've got the hair. I can give you the starlight. Well, now there's another thing that's bringing back memories to me just before the war with Ivor Novello's dancing years.
Presenter
Ivor I knew and admired. I loved his plays. Mary Ellis I knew.
Presenter
In fact, sometime my mother in the days during the war used to send eggs to Mary Alice when she couldn't get any. I remember that.
Presenter
And I think I can give you the starlight as the most lovely tune, lovely members, lovely melody and lovely words.
Presenter
And uh when I used to go to Drury Lane,
Presenter
To hear this, uh Mary had sent view various numbers to sing. Sometimes this was cut out, but whenever I went I sent a little note round to her dressery room to say I'm in the audience, could she possibly sing it? and she always did.
Raymond Mays
And yeah.
Raymond Mays
Unchained hand.
Raymond Mays
I don't believe you
Presenter
Mary Ellis and the Dancing Years.
Presenter
What's number six?
Presenter
A Stranger in Paradise
Presenter
Uh it's a tune that I loved. I love Kismet.
Presenter
I love the singing of Doretta Morrow and Richard Kiley.
Presenter
Uh I like the melody. I like the words.
Presenter
And uh it's often played, as you know, throughout the world on orchestras. And if it isn't played, I think wherever I am, I often ask them to play it, and it's one of my favourites.
Raymond Mays
You're here.
Raymond Mays
I'm not sure if I'm waiting.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Presenter
Stranger in Paradise, sung by Doretta Morrow and Richard Kiley. You mentioned your travels. You must travel a great deal.
Presenter
Yes, Roy, I do. Uh during the racing season, uh
Presenter
You're uh constantly travelling, you see. It's nothing but packing bags and unpacking them again. The rather nice part uh from my point of view is that I go to a lot of places where I was racing myself. Now I'm going as racing director with BRM.
Presenter
Knowing the race organizers, knowing the friendly people, knowing the people in hotels, the managers, the staff.
Presenter
And it's almost like going from home to home. Yes. And of course one loves that.
Presenter
Well now you're travelling to this desert island. We know you're a good man with an engine. Have you any skills for a desert island?
Presenter
I think remarkably few put up a hut.
Presenter
Uh well, I suppose I could. I'm not very good at building anything. I have to do something, but I
Raymond Mays
Activation?
Presenter
Well, uh my father had a small firm of uh fert fertilizer manufacturers. I I suppose I know a little bit about that, but but I don't really know what I feel about growing crops.
Presenter
Fishing? Well, I don't fish either, but I just had to fish with my hands.
Presenter
Well, now, what are the chances of escaping?
Presenter
Well, I should think, knowing what I could do over there, the chance of escape would have to come first.
Presenter
Uh not being a brilliant swimmer, I couldn't swim any ocean that I should
Presenter
Of course, I couldn't have a pair of binoculars, I couldn't take everything, but I should be looking out for a boat to come as near the island as possible to get away as soon as possible, I think.
Presenter
Let's get back to music. Number seven, uh, T for Two.
Presenter
This again brings back many memories to me by a very very favorite artist of mine Benny Hale
Raymond Mays
Your knee upon your knees and your feet between
Raymond Mays
You and two for T, just me for you and you for me alone.
Raymond Mays
No punch in your empathy of
Speaker 2
Uh
Presenter
Binny Hail and a song from No Known In Ed
Presenter
And we've come already to your last record. Well, I love the Merry Widow music.
Presenter
And I adore June Bronhill's singing of the of the Meadow Widow Waltz.
Presenter
And I think Lahar is my favourite composer. I saw him once.
Presenter
Uh Josie Collins appeared in the play. One of her last music was called Frasquita by LaHar.
Presenter
And it had the most lovely music in.
Presenter
And Franz Lehar came over for the opening light and I was at the opening night at Princess Theatre. And I was remembered because LeHar was brought onto the stage with Josie Collins.
Presenter
And you could hardly see the artist with banks of flowers which went almost up to the top of the curtain.
Presenter
My only glimpse of Laha, but I adore his music and I shall always adore the Merry Widow.
Presenter
June Bronhill in The Merry Widow. If you could take just one of the eight records you played as which would it be?
Presenter
It's awfully difficult, Roy, but I'm afraid I should have to say Love Will Find the Way by Josie Collins, The Made of the Mountains. That means most.
Presenter
And you saw that eighty-four times.
Presenter
And one lecture to take with you.
Presenter
Estefil again, I've been thinking hard about this luxury. Well, not liking I can't bear getting wet.
Presenter
Much as I love the sun, you can have too much that I know, and I think my luck should be an umbrella.
Raymond Mays
Yeah.
Presenter
And sunshine. Yes, exactly. Definitely. And I've got a nice large one which I take motor racing, which you can hold over the bonnet to protect them from
Presenter
uh when they're changing plugs, so with a large blue umbrella. Right. And one book, assuming that the Bible and Shakespeare are already on the island. Well, that's again difficult. I shouldn't not take a motor racing book because, without being conceited, motor racing is in my brain and I know it from when I started right up to today.
Presenter
Theatre I know and love, but I mean I still like reminding myself of it and looking who played in what in what year.
Presenter
And I think I should take a book called
Presenter
Gaiety, a theatre of enchantment, for I'm a queen pope.
Presenter
Right. Gaiety Theatre of Enchantment by the Queen Pope. And thank you, Raymond Mays, for letting us hear your Dazodilon discs. No, I've loved it, Roy. I love talking to you because it always brought back lovely memories to me, too. Good. Goodbye, everyone.
Speaker 1
You've been listening to a download from the Desert Island Discs Archive.
Speaker 1
For more downloads, please visit the Radio4 website.
Presenter asks
[At the outbreak of war] you had a dream of a British Grand Prix car that would wipe the ball?
It sort of brought home in full force to me when I did a motor racing tour of South Africa in the RA and the Grand Prix were Johannesburg, East London and Cape Town. ... And uh as I say, it frightened me and shattered me the impression that had been left behind of the might of Germany in engineering. ... And that made me more keen than ever to say that we to do something.
Presenter asks
Now, were there the right people in the country with the right experience, designers, engineers?
Oh, yes, I think that, because I'd had quite a bunch around me in the RA days and my motor racing career. I had every faith in Peter Burfam. And also with engineers with the caliber of Harry Mundy helped us who is now a big boy Jaguars, Walter Hassan who's a big boy Jaguars now, people like Eric Richter and Frank May, all first-class head draftsmen and engineers. I'd no question in thinking we could not do it from that angle.
Presenter asks
Now looking back on your own driving career, which race do you think back on most?
It's awfully difficult, uh this, but I suppose uh you always have a favourite race to think about. Yes, I think possibly the one that uh I look back upon is when I won the Eiffel Renner, the Nürburg Ring in Germany. ... And to receive the checkered flag before a crowd of something like 600,000 people, Roy is always a thrill.
“She made a terrific impact on me with a sensational appearance, the black hair, the flashing eyes. The superb voice went sent shivers down my spine.”
“It sort of brought home in full force to me when I did a motor racing tour of South Africa in the RA and the Grand Prix were Johannesburg, East London and Cape Town. and I followed the German Auto Union team which had been there the year before. And uh as I say, it frightened me and shattered me the impression that had been left behind of the might of Germany in engineering. And of course the Germans, the days of Hitler, they used that to the full. They were trying to intimidate, without any question of doubt, and the motor racing weapon was a weapon was a very good way of doing it.”
“We had a great driver, French driver Raymond Sommer. We'll drive it to Silverstone. But very unfortunately the pot joint which is part of the drive shaft of the back broke through faulty material and it never started in that first race.”
“The great day when it justified itself was when, to my mind, the greatest driver in the world drove it, and that was the great Fangio and the Grand Prix of Albay, which was a big race then. ... And we he put up an epic performance. ... I mean anybody who saw that race will always remember it. And to this day people talk about that race, showing what the BIM could do. That must have been a good day for you after what, seven years of hard work. Oh, absolutely. I mean it lifted us up into heaven almost.”
“During the racing season, uh You're uh constantly travelling, you see. It's nothing but packing bags and unpacking them again. The rather nice part uh from my point of view is that I go to a lot of places where I was racing myself. Now I'm going as racing director with BRM. Knowing the race organizers, knowing the friendly people, knowing the people in hotels, the managers, the staff. And it's almost like going from home to home.”