Kelsey Grammer

Kelsey Grammer0:00

This is the

Speaker 10:01

B B C

Presenter0:03

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Welcome to Desert Island Discs, where every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, the book, and the luxury item that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away on a desert island.

Presenter0:16

For rights' reasons, the music on these podcast versions is shorter than in the original broadcast. You can find over two thousand more editions to listen to and download on the Desert Island Disc's website.

Presenter0:48

My castaway this week is the actor Kelsey Grammer. His definitive role was as the rictus-jawed pedant Fraser, most famously in the long-running sitcom of the same name, and it made his reputation as one of the finest comedy actors of his generation. A producer, director, and writer too, he's won so many awards it is, frankly, almost embarrassing. He has spent decades then filling our lives with laughter. But all this comedy exists alongside profound personal tragedy. He has said sorrow and loss very nearly destroyed him, for while drink and drugs and chaos were his close companions. These days he seems a good deal more settled, living in upstate New York with his fourth wife and three young children, and regularly taking to the stage on Broadway and now in London's West End to exercise his performing muscles. He says, I like telling stories that are about good people who make mistakes or decent behaviour in a world filled with indecency. I don't proclaim to be an arbiter of good taste or conduct, I'm not a saint, but I like to tell stories that are clean and good that your kids can see. And so welcome, Kelsey Grammer.

Presenter1:55

Emmy, Tony, Golden Globe winner, when I introduce you as somebody who is not just the the actor, who is such a household face, but but also as a producer and a writer and a director, do you see all those things equally? Or is there one that sort of stands out as what you consider to be your main job?

Kelsey Grammer2:11

Well, I'm I'm o a person who likes panic in a weird way. I like to be in a in a position when I direct or produce it. I'd like to be doing something that I have never done before. I like it to be a little bit over my head so that I can rise to it. So I set myself up for, I guess, failure and then hope to find triumph.

Presenter2:28

Part of the

Presenter2:30

And this famous character that we know you as, of course, Doctor Fraser Crane, started in Cheers and then went on for eleven series for this incredible sitcom that that people around the world enjoyed. What was the biggest joy of playing Fraser? If it continued to be a joy in

Kelsey Grammer2:45

Sure. It was a joy always.

Kelsey Grammer2:47

The beauty of playing Fraser was you could pretty much do anything. I mean, I could pull out every trick I've got in my bag and it would still fit on Fraser. He was loud and big and boisterous and then subtle and beautiful and touching and you had all the notes that you can play. It was almost as though all of creation was sitting there in the middle of Fraser's stomach, churning and ready to come popping out at any time.

Presenter3:10

I mean, now you you're on stage every night playing in front of a live audience. Are you somebody who is very adaptive in their performance depending on how the audience is responding to you?

Kelsey Grammer3:19

You know what? That's part of the reason you keep doing it, is because it's a muscle that is kept most supple by the idea that you keep working it and that there's a a different energy every night in the audience.

Kelsey Grammer3:29

Each performance depends upon who's watching.

Kelsey Grammer3:33

I mean, I've always said it's not art until somebody looks at it.

Presenter3:35

Tell me then about music. I mean, you play piano pretty well. What was your criteria for the music we're about to hear?

Kelsey Grammer3:38

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer3:40

Well, some of it is based upon the love of my family. Some of it's based upon stuff that just meant something to me when I was young. And uh some of it's also based upon the fact that I'm on a desert island.

Presenter3:51

So tell me about this first choice. Why are we going to hear this?

Kelsey Grammer3:53

Frank's Natra, Fly Me to the Moon, is just one of the great recordings from one of the great voices, one of the great performers of all time.

Presenter4:00

You knew him a bit, didn't you, Frank Sinatra?

Kelsey Grammer4:02

Well, we met once. I was sort of on the list that I could go play at his golf tournament. I was invited to his seventy fifth birthday party because I guess I got on the list. But what was great was once at the golf tournament, Frank walked by

Kelsey Grammer4:15

And he just sort of had the, you know, had the little hairpiece on back then that became sort of a signature look, you know, in his later years. But he looked at me and he said, you're doing good, kid. You know, I said, that's enough.

Presenter4:25

Uh

Speaker 24:25

That's enough, isn't it? That's enough.

Presenter4:25

Uh

Presenter4:26

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer4:26

That was just fantastic.

Speaker 24:29

Fly me to the moon, let me play among the stars.

Speaker 24:37

And let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mars.

Speaker 24:45

In other words...

Speaker 24:48

Hold my hand.

Speaker 24:53

In other words

Speaker 24:56

Baby, kiss me.

Speaker 25:01

Fill my heart with song, And let me sing forevermore.

Speaker 25:09

You are all I long for, All I worship at the door.

Speaker 25:17

In other words.

Speaker 25:20

Please be true.

Speaker 25:25

In other words, I love you.

Speaker 25:32

Yeah.

Presenter5:32

The joy, the joy. That was Frank Sinatra. Fly me to the moon. When we were listening to that, we were probably both thinking the voice, the voice. And I think people think that about you, of course. You've done a lot of wonderful voice work in The Simpsons sideshow Bob Toy Story 2 as Stinky Pete. You're currently singing. You're in Big Fish, the Musical. Do you take care? It is even magnificent to hear it through my headphones. Do you take care of the instrument? Are you conscious of the instrument?

Kelsey Grammer5:55

You can

Kelsey Grammer5:56

I have become a little bit of a, I'm trying to think of the nicest word to say. Sissy, I suppose you could call it. I do wrap my voice up a bit more now because I used to sort of make fun of opera singers. I'd see them walking around with the scarves on all the time, and I'd think, oh, come on, just go use your voice, just go sing. I have discovered that when you do eight shows a week, it wears out.

Speaker 16:11

Yeah.

Presenter6:11

Think oh come

Presenter6:18

So what are you doing? You're spritzing the air.

Kelsey Grammer6:19

I do a little bit of spritzing. I do a little bit of steam. I I'm I'm trying to sort of slip and slide toward my own way of maintaining my voice as best I can, but it's a little tired.

Presenter6:19

Yeah.

Presenter6:30

You said you once heard Jack Benny say, I think you were watching him on a talk show actually, say, I always play up to my audience. And for you, that was a moment of absolute clarity.

Kelsey Grammer6:35

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer6:38

That was a yes, a a crystallizing bolt of lightning that hit me in the head. I was in love with Shakespeare at that point and I thought, Well, that's how you need to play Shakespeare, is to never play down to the audience. Now, of course, most people that perform Shakespeare, and and even some of my British friends, do play down to the audience'cause they make an assumption about the audience is they're dumber than they are.

Kelsey Grammer6:58

And they don't know what they're saying.

Presenter7:00

So they have to proclaim and

Kelsey Grammer7:00

They have to yeah, and so they get a little bit teachy about it and lose the action, the the action of the mind thinking through those words, and that's and and no one was better than at that than Shakespeare.

Presenter7:11

Let's hear your second disc, Kelsey Grammar. What are we going to hear? And why have you chosen this?

Kelsey Grammer7:16

Uh this is uh Jimi Hendrix playing All Along the Watch Tower. Now this is a Bob Dylan song. This is an indelible recording of an extraordinary song I saw him play live about a month before he died.

Speaker 17:27

Right.

Kelsey Grammer7:29

And it was almost a religious experience. I don't want to sound trite about it, but.

Kelsey Grammer7:34

This guy just had that thing. All of his being was connected to that guitar and that music and

Kelsey Grammer7:41

It projected out over thousands of people in a single evening.

Kelsey Grammer7:46

He's just magic and this recording is magic.

Speaker 27:55

One of the watch towers.

Speaker 28:00

Bruce Cat loves you.

Speaker 28:04

While all the women came and went Bemplates to bless

Speaker 28:12

Outside in the cold distance

Speaker 28:16

A wildcast did browse Two riders one approach And the wheel he begins to hop

Presenter8:28

All along the watchtower, Jimi Hendrix Kelsey Grammar. Let's go back then to when you were a little boy. What what mattered to you when you were a little boy?

Kelsey Grammer8:36

My granddad.

Kelsey Grammer8:37

To spend a time with him was the best thing in the world. We chopped wood together.

Kelsey Grammer8:41

We would go visit a friend sometimes and do some target shooting, you know. I mean, I I grew up a kind of a traditional old American style childhood. We went to church and uh we loved our family and Gordon my granddad always called him Gordon

Kelsey Grammer8:55

was the light of my life.

Presenter8:56

Your mother and father had split up when you were quite young.

Kelsey Grammer8:58

When I was young, I didn't really know my dad. Uh we got to know him a little bit after Gordon died, but yeah, so my mom, my grandmother, my grandfather and my sister and I that was my sort of family of origin.

Presenter9:08

And you were living where's a little girl?

Kelsey Grammer9:09

Living in Colonial New Jersey was a little town. Then we went to Florida when I was twelve.

Presenter9:14

Tell me a bit your mother was a singer. She was a professional singer.

Kelsey Grammer9:16

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer9:17

Yeah, my father and mother were both musicians and

Kelsey Grammer9:20

My mother's stage name was Sally Sullivan and uh my dad, uh I've been told used to play taps at Arlington Cemetery when he was in the army.

Kelsey Grammer9:30

And his favorite instrument was the bass trombone, but he could play the bugle and

Presenter9:34

As a little kid did you watch your mum perform?

Kelsey Grammer9:36

Yes. I saw my mother uh do several plays and and she was good. My mama taught us an appreciation for performing. So, I mean, I I used to go to Leonard Bernstein's concerts for children at Lincoln Center when I was I think we started when I was six. And my first Broadway show that I saw was Hello Dolly with uh Carol Channing, and that was that was great.

Presenter9:57

And so Gordon, your grandfather, died when you were around about twelve.

Kelsey Grammer10:00

We are.

Presenter10:00

So did you then have to s sort of

Presenter10:03

Step up. Was there a space? You know, the man of the house no longer

Kelsey Grammer10:05

Yeah, he even told me I was going to have to when we were driving down to Florida. It was the only real hint that.

Kelsey Grammer10:12

Gordon maybe knew he was dying.

Kelsey Grammer10:14

He said, I'm retiring.

Kelsey Grammer10:16

And Gordon got us to Florida, bought a house.

Kelsey Grammer10:18

And we were gonna do a lot of great things together. You know, we were gonna go see the New York Yankees do spring training and we were gonna get a boat and go fishing and that was the promise of what our move to Florida was for me as a a young boy, was to be closer to him.

Kelsey Grammer10:33

And of course then he was gone and we got to Florida and he d he was dead in a week. Uh that was pretty disruptive. But then it was I was the only man in the house at that time, so I had to just

Kelsey Grammer10:45

You know, bite the bullet, show up.

Presenter10:48

Let's have some more music, Kelsey Grammar. We're on your third disc of the morning. Just tell me a little bit about this choice.

Kelsey Grammer10:55

This one most people my wife said, What Beethoven, what are you doing? I said, Well, he's arguably the greatest music writer that ever lived. But this particular movement, the second movement of the Seventh Symphony by Beethoven,

Kelsey Grammer11:11

Just connected with me. I saw this

Kelsey Grammer11:14

Wacky movie called Zardaz years ago starred Sean Connery and Charlotte Rampling. I had a thing for Charlotte Rampling after having seen her in the night porter. I was like, wow, who is this? And it is a weird movie, but there was one great thing in it where they defined what life was and what a diamond was. And it was sort of the same idea. Infinite refractions of infinite reflections. Or is it the other way around? But either way, it works. I thought, that is fantastic. It's infinite. So the performance of this movement of the symphony, it is the scoring of the whole film. And it has a tension.

Kelsey Grammer11:52

And a build to it that is just breathtaking. And all of this is in context of having no other music for the rest of my life, stuck on an island somewhere. I would not want to live without this one.

Presenter13:09

That was part of the second movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. Seven performed by the Royal Koncerterbauer Orchestra of Amsterdam, the conductor there was Eugen Joachim.

Presenter13:18

It's very interesting to me, Kelsey Grammar. I get in my job or to meet lots of very famous people, very accomplished people, but there is a difference sometimes between

Presenter13:27

People who are able to be in the moment. You were listening to that and you were almost moved to tears.

Presenter13:32

By that, you go through life in that way.

Presenter13:36

That must be hard work.

Kelsey Grammer13:38

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer13:40

Yeah, I'm about my emotions are pretty available most of the time.

Presenter13:45

Do you have to guard yourself against that? Do you have to protect yourself against that?

Kelsey Grammer13:48

Yeah. T Get it.

Presenter13:49

Have to not listen to Black.

Kelsey Grammer13:50

I have to listen to my family ridicule me most of the time. Oh, there he goes. There he goes, Dad again. I'm just.

Kelsey Grammer13:59

You know, I stuffed so much emotion through my early years, my childhood and everything that, uh

Kelsey Grammer14:05

Especially after Gordon was gone. That I I guess I just

Kelsey Grammer14:09

Part of my being able to

Kelsey Grammer14:11

become a whole human being was to just express my emotions.

Presenter14:16

And so that began when you could get up on stage and do it?

Kelsey Grammer14:19

You know what? I've gotten better and better at it as I've gotten older. It was always available to me.

Presenter14:22

Right, okay.

Speaker 114:23

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer14:26

Once I kind of got through the first blush of realizing that, you know, there was tragedy in life and profound tragedy and after my sister died, I I actually shut off for a long time. I spent about three years pretty much in just an angry mode and I spent a lot of time walking the streets of New York City

Kelsey Grammer14:43

And doing my best to make a living. I was working as a waiter and trying to get a job as an actor, but uh there was an anger in me that was just percolating and cooking and I'd walk through the park, you know, during the years when you really shouldn't walk through the park. But uh it was either God or just good sense from people that

Kelsey Grammer15:00

They just avoided me.

Presenter15:02

Your sister Karen died in horrific circumstances. She was murdered. You were very close to her. What age were you when it happened then?

Kelsey Grammer15:10

When I was twenty.

Presenter15:13

Are you still working it out or do you feel like you've

Kelsey Grammer15:16

I think you always carry it.

Kelsey Grammer15:18

Because

Kelsey Grammer15:19

What you miss about them is

Kelsey Grammer15:22

them in your life.

Kelsey Grammer15:24

and as long as I'm alive I will miss her.

Kelsey Grammer15:26

And that's uh that's the way it is.

Kelsey Grammer15:28

So you carry that.

Kelsey Grammer15:31

Um

Kelsey Grammer15:32

Have I

Kelsey Grammer15:35

Embraced it. Probably not. I've I've I've learned to forgive. I've even told a guy that

Kelsey Grammer15:41

Is it still alive that killed her?

Kelsey Grammer15:45

that I do forgive him, although I don't

Kelsey Grammer15:47

Advocate for his freedom. I don't think that's.

Kelsey Grammer15:50

Reasonable.

Kelsey Grammer15:52

But uh

Kelsey Grammer15:57

Chip.

Kelsey Grammer15:57

You're just left with it.

Kelsey Grammer15:59

So I cherish her memory and and a great love that we had.

Kelsey Grammer16:05

And uh

Kelsey Grammer16:07

I continue to carry the joy that I felt in knowing her with me.

Kelsey Grammer16:11

and I continue to care the loss of it.

Kelsey Grammer16:14

I just don't let it.

Kelsey Grammer16:16

Um

Kelsey Grammer16:17

Disrupt me, or

Kelsey Grammer16:19

Destroy me.

Presenter16:22

When, and I know this because it's in the public domain, when the parole hearings come up, you try to attend and you say, these are the reasons that this person should not be a free man.

Kelsey Grammer16:24

When the

Kelsey Grammer16:30

I mean, I've I've written in a f one of the letters to the parole board, I said, you know, it does seem that the

Kelsey Grammer16:36

The punishment shouldn't be worse for the family than it is for the guy that actually killed the person.

Kelsey Grammer16:40

And that's what this feels like sometimes. So we've been we've been helping to push a a law that actually uh involves victims' families in all the states in the United States, involves them and gives them a right to speak, because sometimes they don't have that right and

Kelsey Grammer16:53

That's a horrible moment when suddenly you're

Kelsey Grammer16:56

Loved ones killer is standing in a restaurant and you're there.

Kelsey Grammer17:00

You know, that is the kind of stuff that happens sometimes with our justice system and I don't know if that's justice.

Presenter17:06

Let's have some more music, Kelsey. We're going to hear your. This is your fourth. Tell me a bit about this choice.

Kelsey Grammer17:13

This is Joe Cocker, and it's a song that was originally written, I think, and recorded by the Boxtops. I think I was shooting a commercial, and at the end of shooting the commercial, the production team and I all went to one of those rock and roll hotels in LA. And after a few drinks, I decided I'd play the piano a little bit. So we were sitting there, and who walks in but Joe Cocker?

Speaker 217:32

Boom.

Kelsey Grammer17:33

And we actually did play together for a while and he sang a th a song. He was so he said, I'm working on this song. It was called Can a White Man Sing the Blues? Should a Blue Man Sing the Whites? And it was just so silly. But he was obviously lit up. And we

Kelsey Grammer17:47

Kicked it around for a while. That was one of the great joys of my life. And this recording, I think I'm past the statute of limitations on this. So every time this would come on in my car, I'd be driving 20, 30 miles an hour faster than I was when before it started.

Speaker 218:03

Give me a ticket for an airplane

Speaker 218:09

I ain't got time to take no fast train

Speaker 218:13

Oh, the lonely days are gone

Speaker 218:16

I'm coming home.

Speaker 218:33

I'm gonna find my way.

Speaker 218:35

We back home again.

Speaker 218:38

Oh no.

Presenter18:40

That was Joe Cocker and the letter. It seems rather incongruous, Kelsey Grammar, to come out of something that sounds like that and ask you to talk about the rather spic and span sounding Pinecrest School in Fort Lauderdale. But take me there for a moment. That was the first place you performed, was it?

Kelsey Grammer18:49

But

Kelsey Grammer18:51

Okay.

Kelsey Grammer18:53

Yeah, it was a preparatory school. Um what was unique about it was in eighth grade this man named Richard Mitten he walked into every class and said, All the boys in here, you're gonna sing for me And we were all like, Yeah, right He says, Oh, no, no, you're not going home until you sing for me

Kelsey Grammer19:09

So we all went?

Kelsey Grammer19:11

Sang?

Kelsey Grammer19:12

Most guys sang uh

Kelsey Grammer19:15

Blackbird, I think. You know, blackbird singing in the dead of night. And uh.

Kelsey Grammer19:20

He said, Okay, well, you're a you're a lyric tenor, you're a bass, you're a baritone. And he said, Tomorrow, show up for chorus. I'm gonna teach you some music.

Kelsey Grammer19:29

And we all started singing?

Kelsey Grammer19:31

And uh it was an extraordinarily positive thing for all of us to have this personal relationship with music.

Kelsey Grammer19:39

He was a a a phenomenal influence in my life, and it was a few years after that

Kelsey Grammer19:45

Eleventh grade when a new English teacher came and listened to us all singing, and I sat down next to him as part of this meet and greet for the new teachers of the year, and he looked at me and he said,

Kelsey Grammer19:55

I want to talk to you. And he said, can you smoke a cigar?

Kelsey Grammer20:00

I said, Well, yeah, probably. I think he was asking if my parents would let me. But um, I actually had already I was a pipe smoker at that time, beyond any known pretension in history. Uh I was uh sixteen.

Speaker 120:03

Yeah.

Presenter20:03

Go ahead.

Presenter20:12

And my mother

Kelsey Grammer20:12

And my mother had bought me some pipes because I liked it and she didn't want me to be a cigarette smoker, so I said, Okay, fine So I acquired this artistic pipe habit. So as it happened I could actually smoke a cigar and I was pretty good at it and uh we did this play and

Kelsey Grammer20:28

Little Foxes, Ben Hubbard. It went very well. And that was actually the first play that made me think I could do this for a living.

Presenter20:34

And the feeling of being on stage was hot at that young age.

Kelsey Grammer20:37

Absolutely comfortable.

Kelsey Grammer20:38

Fraying

Kelsey Grammer20:40

Unedited

Kelsey Grammer20:41

And I guess that's what you look for.

Presenter20:43

And so you won a scholarship to Juilliard school in New York. After your second year, did you leave or were you kicked out?

Kelsey Grammer20:50

I was kicked out. Because well, I wasn't going to acting class. We had an acting teacher that I didn't really like very much. Okay. So I didn't go to class.

Kelsey Grammer20:59

And then they said, well, if you don't go to class, what's the point of being here? And I said, I agree completely.

Presenter21:04

Before we go to the music, I just need to fact-check something with you. Is it true that because your hair was so long you wore a wig to school?

Kelsey Grammer21:10

Oh yeah, yeah, that was true, yeah.

Kelsey Grammer21:12

In tenth grade I'd been on the student council and we had passed a rule that said there was no more hair code. Well, a new dean came in the following year and he said, No, hair code's back. It's above the collar. That's it. So I said, Well, I'm buying a wig. It was a Jane Fonda wig.

Presenter21:27

This story only gets better.

Kelsey Grammer21:29

that I cut the back off of.

Kelsey Grammer21:31

I put my hair in a ponytail, put it on top of my head, put the wig on. Did you ever

Presenter21:35

Did you ever smoke the pipe with the wig on?

Kelsey Grammer21:37

No, he'd never smoke with a wig on.

Kelsey Grammer21:39

But

Presenter21:39

It's a safety thing. It's a safety thing. Let's go to your music. Let's hear your fists.

Kelsey Grammer21:40

This is not

Kelsey Grammer21:45

This is a song I just loved. It's a singular recording by a singular artist, Glenn Campbell, singing Wichita Lineman.

Speaker 222:00

I am a lineman for the county.

Speaker 222:09

And I drive the main road.

Speaker 222:14

Searching in the sun for another overlord

Speaker 222:23

I hear you singing in the wire

Speaker 222:29

I can hear you through the wine And the witch of tall enemies

Speaker 222:41

Is still on the line.

Presenter22:48

That was Glenn Campbell and Wichita Lynman. Kelsey Grammer in I don't need to tell you this, but I should tell listeners. You you auditioned successfully for the Globe Theatre in San Diego in the mid seventies, about nineteen seventy six. And you wrote

Speaker 122:58

Excellent.

Presenter23:00

Once in your biography, that what you enjoyed about it was you said you functioned as a full, healthy human being. Was it the parameters of that, of knowing where you had to be when to land? Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Kelsey Grammer23:09

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Sort of my first job. I didn't make a lot of money, but uh gosh, I don't know, I think I did fourteen plays in two years and I'm you know, did sets for some, wrote music for another. I directed a piece. Uh I starred in several of them. My very first award was a Golden Globe Award. It was for Arms and the Man. I played Blanche Lee in Arms and the Man.

Kelsey Grammer23:29

I had a great dog, and I had a motorcycle, and I lived in a garage, but I could open the door at night and sleep. It was just.

Kelsey Grammer23:36

It was a perfect time in my life.

Presenter23:38

That moment when cheers made it onto our screens. I mean, I can still remember it. It was a golden ensemble piece where every character seemed as.

Presenter23:47

taught and as beautifully executed as the next.

Kelsey Grammer23:50

Well, you know what? It's funny. I'd sort of seen it. I thought, I don't know, I don't know if I like that. When I came into the show, all my friends said, Oh, that's a fun, cool show. My knowledge of it before that was pretty limited.

Kelsey Grammer24:02

But my knowledge of liv you know, working in a bar, it wasn't. So, I mean, I had some experience, but uh it was funny and I liked the guy, the the guy I was playing. And of course, that was the birth of Fraser.

Presenter24:13

And what about uh Fraser being picked out as the person, as the character, as you, the actor, that was going to be the singular? The anointed one, yeah. Yes, yes. Tell me about that process.

Kelsey Grammer24:21

The Anointed One, the Antoine. About three years before Cheers ended, the folks at Paramount came to me and said, We want to develop a show for you.

Kelsey Grammer24:31

That was the tap on the shoulder, you know, that said something new is going to happen for you, and that was great. And so three years later, we started to construct what would be the next show.

Kelsey Grammer24:41

It wasn't going to be Frazier originally. The president of Paramount at the time, John Pike.

Kelsey Grammer24:46

Read the script and he said, I want to take you to dinner. So we went to dinner and he looked at me across the table and he said, Kelse, read the script.

Kelsey Grammer24:56

I think a sitcom should be funny.

Speaker 125:00

He's on to something there. So is it okay?

Kelsey Grammer25:02

Yeah.

Speaker 125:05

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer25:05

And then he said, I want you to play Fraser.

Kelsey Grammer25:10

So it was it was John Pike that did it. My next response was, Well, then you just gotta change everything about his life.

Kelsey Grammer25:16

I said, it's it's Fraser in a new in a new world.

Kelsey Grammer25:19

And he said, okay. And that was the birth of the dog.

Presenter25:23

And so thirty-seven Emmys in total. I mean, astonishing figures. It it was on

Kelsey Grammer25:28

Yeah, we just got past, I know. I think it was uh Game of Thrones, I think, picked up another Emmy that

Kelsey Grammer25:33

That one one more than us. It's not really a comedy though, is it?

Presenter25:35

Uh thirty-seven Emmys, eleven years it ran for, and the famous piano on set.

Kelsey Grammer25:40

Mm-hmm.

Presenter25:41

What happened to that? Because it was at the center of the apartment.

Kelsey Grammer25:44

There was a friend of mine actually used to run Steinway, and when the show was being put together, he said, Well, we'll put the piano on the set. Let us send it out to you. So when the show was over, they wanted it back, but they wanted the cast to sign it, and then they would auction it somewhere. So I just bought it. I said, No, it's too precious. I have it at home.

Presenter26:03

Tell me then about this next one. What are we going to hear now, Kelsey?

Kelsey Grammer26:06

The next two are sort of

Kelsey Grammer26:09

Um, My Life with Kate. Todd Rundgren was somebody I always really respected. I I think he's just a fantastic artist.

Kelsey Grammer26:15

But this one really spoke to me and when I met Kate kinda came back into my brain. She's much younger than I am, the youngest person I've ever gone out with in terms of, you know, age difference, but she is wonderful.

Speaker 226:33

Baby, won't you say you will make death for as long as it's my last?

Speaker 226:41

You're mated, why else would you be here right now?

Speaker 226:48

And you know you'll still be here tomorrow. I hold you in my arms. Cause we're mated in a very special form. We are mated. Why else would I be here right now?

Speaker 227:07

And you know I'll still be here tomorrow.

Presenter27:12

That was Todd Rundgren and Mated. And as you said, Kelsey Grammar, you've chosen that for your wife, Kate. You've been married, what, seven years now? Seven years, yeah. You have three young children. Is it true you had five different marriage ceremonies with Kate?

Speaker 227:17

Uh

Kelsey Grammer27:17

Yeah.

Speaker 227:17

I

Kelsey Grammer27:18

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer27:18

Seven years, yeah.

Kelsey Grammer27:26

Yes, we're still racking them up. I'm planning another one. I think I needed an English one.

Presenter27:29

I'm planning another one.

Kelsey Grammer27:33

Well, it just became uh something fun for us.

Presenter27:37

This is unusual.

Kelsey Grammer27:38

But it's it's lovely. And I'm I propose in a garden, in a vegetable garden, naked. That was our first romantic blush. And

Presenter27:50

Is there any bit of the naked proposal in the vegetable garden you can tell me about, or do we just

Kelsey Grammer27:55

It's all good. It's all clean and wonderful. We just happened to be naked. It was as though we were in the garden. So it was beautiful. It was absolutely great.

Presenter27:59

So it was beautiful.

Speaker 128:03

Fantastic.

Presenter28:03

You know, I had planned to ask you just before we hear the next bit of music if the crazy days are behind you, and I but I want to make it clear I'm talking about the, you know, the drugs and the drink and that you look very healthy. Oh, yeah, no.

Kelsey Grammer28:13

Oh, yeah, no.

Presenter28:15

Oh, it's fine.

Kelsey Grammer28:16

Honey, um it's been what it's been twenty-five years since I've done any

Presenter28:19

Has a

Speaker 128:19

Dead.

Kelsey Grammer28:20

that stuff. But I mean, I I still enjoy a cocktail, but I

Kelsey Grammer28:24

I I had to end that relationship and find a new one, which was, you know, a healthier one, that's all. You just have to sometimes give them up. It's a great line. I d I it was one of these guys I was talking to who said, So there's a cruise ship going by. You've you've been marooned for a year on a a raft. You've been floating on a raft and you're hanging onto a rock because you think it's somehow important to you. And the only way you can get to the ship that can rescue you is to throw away the rock.

Kelsey Grammer28:53

So, you just throw away the rock. Eventually, you just got to get rid of it and say, okay, that doesn't work for me anymore. So, that was a good thing.

Presenter29:01

So you have seven children. It's difficult for people I know to answer this question, but what kind of a father do you think you are? What kind of a father do you want to be?

Kelsey Grammer29:10

I want to be fair. I want to hopefully have enough time to impart the things I think are important, which are basically just common decency.

Kelsey Grammer29:17

loving people for who they are and

Kelsey Grammer29:19

Not judging prematurely. Judgment without knowledge is the greatest of all crimes.

Kelsey Grammer29:24

I've been carrying that around for a long time, but I I think that's actually true. And if you judge after you have knowledge, then you're kind of a jerk.

Presenter29:34

Let's have some more music, Kelsey. Tell me about this. This is your seventh.

Kelsey Grammer29:37

This song is for my children and for my wife. When Faith was born.

Kelsey Grammer29:43

We asked him to put on a track, and as Faith was taking her first breath, the next song that came on was this song, Bad Companies.

Kelsey Grammer29:51

Shooting star. Every one of our kids since has basically been born into the same song.

Speaker 229:58

Johnny told his mama, hey mama, I'm going away.

Speaker 230:03

I'm gonna hit the big time, gonna be a big star someday, yeah

Speaker 230:09

Mama came to the door with a teardrop to her eye.

Speaker 230:15

Johnny said, Don't cry, mama, smile and wave goodbye.

Speaker 230:19

Don't you know

Speaker 230:24

Don't you know that you are a

Presenter30:28

Yes, you think strong

Speaker 230:30

Uh

Presenter30:31

That was bad company and shooting star. Once upon a time, Kelsey Grammer, you used to talk about entering politics, or at least or at least the possibility of it. Is that st am I interviewing a a future president of the United States?

Kelsey Grammer30:37

At least the possibility of that.

Kelsey Grammer30:41

Well, gosh, I don't think so. Um, you know, it's it's just too nasty now.

Kelsey Grammer30:46

Well, I guess you can always rise above it. I don't know. I mean, I just don't think it's really cut out for me anymore.

Presenter30:51

You say it's too nice. It's a very some would say interesting, some would say odd time in politics. You're a Republican. You voted for Mr. Trump, now President. How do you think he's doing?

Kelsey Grammer30:57

Yeah.

Presenter31:02

Well

Kelsey Grammer31:03

I think he's doing what he said he was going to do, which is he's a bit of a loudmouth and he does shake things up. He promised a few things that I thought, well, well, maybe you can get that done. Maybe you can't get that done.

Speaker 131:12

Or mommy maybe

Kelsey Grammer31:15

Donald Trump just won in a way in a world where nobody thought he would. And so there's just anger. It's just it's filled with anger now.

Presenter31:19

But he

Presenter31:22

But it's very interesting because you are, you know, a self-declared Republican and, you know, in Hollywood. It's a very

Kelsey Grammer31:28

It's a little bit more.

Presenter31:29

Very left-leaning constituency. Do you feel the opprobrium personally when you're among your own people?

Kelsey Grammer31:32

Do you

Kelsey Grammer31:37

Um

Kelsey Grammer31:38

You know, I'm respected in the industry. I am.

Kelsey Grammer31:43

probably reviled in some of the back channels.

Presenter31:46

Let's talk for a moment about your faith. I read you said it's it's more important to you than ever.

Kelsey Grammer31:51

Yeah, it's a growing tide in me, yeah. It sustained me when I was younger. It sustained me through my grandfather's death.

Kelsey Grammer31:58

I I went through a a great relationship for years with the sense of God all around me at all times. I lost that when Karen died.

Kelsey Grammer32:07

And then I found it again. And yeah, it is really apparent now. And I do think there's almost no problem that doesn't have, you know, a God solution in it. And that's been.

Kelsey Grammer32:17

Wonderful for me.

Presenter32:18

You know, Kelsey Grammar that

Presenter32:20

I'm leaving you alone on this island. How will you be at surviving?

Kelsey Grammer32:22

Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer32:24

I'm I'm fairly practical. I know how to build a fire and I know how to build a shelter and I was a Boy Scout.

Presenter32:29

Gutterfish, catch a bird.

Kelsey Grammer32:30

Like I know how to catch and cut a fish.

Presenter32:32

You'll be okay.

Kelsey Grammer32:33

Okay.

Presenter32:33

Tell me about your your eighth piece of music. What are we going to hear?

Kelsey Grammer32:36

We're going to hear.

Kelsey Grammer32:39

Every song on this list answers some part of me that I know I would want to deal with should I be stranded.

Kelsey Grammer32:46

And then this one just gives me a hoot because

Kelsey Grammer32:48

You know, when I'm feeling not so great about myself or whatever, if there's a tough day, all I really need is to get my bullets back.

Kelsey Grammer32:58

Leonard Skinner is giving back my bullets.

Speaker 233:00

Can I hear ya?

Speaker 233:02

Life is so strange when it's changing, yes indeed.

Speaker 233:07

Well I've seen the hard times and the pressure's been on me.

Speaker 233:13

Laugh people working like a workin' man

Speaker 233:20

Together on the one I will

Speaker 233:23

I back my bullet.

Speaker 233:28

But I'm back with a room.

Speaker 133:33

That's Lynn Skinner.

Presenter33:34

Skinner, and give me back my bullets. So, Kelsey, I give all of my castaways some books to take with them to the island. They get the Bible, they get the complete works of Shakespeare, and also you're allowed to take another book of your own along.

Speaker 233:40

Uh

Kelsey Grammer33:44

I would have chosen something from W.H. Orden, but Shakespeare Orton, okay, fine, I can wrestle that one out. Okay. Um.

Presenter33:50

Okay.

Kelsey Grammer33:53

My favorite novel is

Kelsey Grammer33:54

Passage to India

Presenter33:55

Okay.

Kelsey Grammer33:56

By E. M. Forster. There's just something about that book that caught my imagination. I think I read it when I was sixteen and

Kelsey Grammer34:03

The Mystery of India and uh

Kelsey Grammer34:06

I just thought it was fantastic.

Presenter34:08

Okay, well we shall give you that book. You're allowed to take. You're welcome. You're allowed to take a little luxury, or even a big luxury. What will yours be?

Kelsey Grammer34:10

Thank you.

Kelsey Grammer34:15

What will yours be? A magnifying glass, because I could read and I could start a fire.

Presenter34:20

Okay, that's yours. And finally, if I were to ask you to save just one of these disks, if they were threatened to be washed away by the waves, which would be the one you would run to save?

Kelsey Grammer34:30

Interesting. Mated.

Presenter34:33

Okay, it's yours. Kelsey Grammer, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. My pleasure.

Presenter34:58

I hope you enjoyed this edition of Desert Island Discs. You'll find more interviews with artists, musicians, scientists, sports stars, comedians, and more at bbc.co.uk/slash desert island discs.

Kelsey Grammer35:26

This is the BBC.