John McEnroe

Speaker 30:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:03

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:14

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:42

My castaway this week is the tennis player John McEnroe. The sporting world isn't short on hyperbole, but in his case the word legendary fits. At a time when our tennis champs so often come wrapped in the suffocating packaging of marketing endorsements and image spin, his character, playing or passing comment, has always brought a welcome spritz of tangy reality. He blazed onto the circuit in the late seventies, irascible, petulant, and utterly brilliant. A Grand Slam champion many times over, he spent four consecutive years ranked world number one.

Presenter1:14

These days he's not only got a better haircut, but has matured into a wry, witty, and wise commentator on the sport that has so dominated his life. He says, There was always a devil inside me whom I had to fight, and the devil was fear of failure. So welcome, John McEnroe. 156 tournament titles in all, seven Grand Slam singles titles, nine Grand Slam Doubles titles. You spent a total of 170 weeks, ranked world number one. And I wonder, are you over the fear of failure now?

John McEnroe1:46

I don't think anyone ever gets over that fear, but

John McEnroe1:50

It's been a wild ride. I mean, 40 years ago was my first time here in London, and I can't believe that I'm sitting here talking about music, so this is awesome.

Presenter1:59

You said that you've been coming to the UK now for forty years, and I know from from stuff you've said your relationship with the UK has not always been the easiest. Do you enjoy it here now?

John McEnroe2:09

A lot better than ever for reasons unknown to me. BBC years ago decided that they wanted sort of a change of direction in their commentary and they wanted to bring me on board and let me do my thing, be myself, which I found surprising that the BBC who to Americans seem a bit stiff and you know they expect a certain type of behavior. And that's turned out to be to my benefit as well because people see me in a different light than they saw me when I was ranning and raving on the tennis court.

Presenter2:41

You say B yourself, you've certainly been making your thoughts plain in the last few weeks. You you said about Serena Williams and her ranking that she would be about seven hundredth if she was ranked in the men's game. She wasn't entirely pleased with that comment. Do you have anything else to say about that?

John McEnroe2:54

Well, first of all, I'm a fan of Serena. You know, people pick things out. I've been known to put my foot in my mouth in the past. The question was: who's the greatest female tennis player ever? And I think Serena Williams, without question. And then the interviewer said to me, Why don't you just say she's the greatest player that ever played? And I said, Well, wait just a second here. I mean, in essence. But if people are so interested, go out and have a circuit where the men and women play together, and then you'll see what happens. I mean, Serena Williams is a magnificent athlete and a magnificent player.

John McEnroe3:30

I mean, what do you think should be ranked?

Presenter3:32

I have no idea, but I'm not an expert, and you are.

John McEnroe3:35

Yeah. So I gave an opinion that has exploded. So in retrospect, I probably would have been better off just saying it's apples and oranges and there's no number needed.

Presenter3:45

How many times in a day do people shout or say to you you cannot be serious and how do you deal with that?

John McEnroe3:51

Probably seven to ten. I deal with it sometimes better than others. At the immigration, when I came into England, the guy said that to me after I'd waited over an hour in line. And so I wasn't as amused as I normally am at this point. But it's incredible that people say that to me all the time. Either say that or don't get mad at me, John. So I suppose if I hadn't played as well as I did, at least for a period of time, that no one would have remembered any of this. But nonetheless, I find it sort of somewhat pathetic, but mainly positive that people still bring it up right there. And then he asked me, are you tired? Are you in a bad mood? Why are you asking me these questions?

Presenter4:35

On behalf of the British people and the Immigration Service, I'd like to apologise for his mistimed comment. I'd like to ask you then to go to your list of eight discs, and I want you to tell me about the first one, about why you've chosen this piece of music.

John McEnroe4:46

Well, first of all, the first one, The Suffragette City by David Bowie. I mean, I've long been a David Bowie fan, in particular, because he's passed away not long ago. But there's a quick little story. When I started to learn how to play guitar, I was here in London getting ready for Wimbledon, and it turned out that we were staying in the same, it wasn't a hotel, but a hotel-like facility. So I'm playing, as it turns out, Suffragette City. I'm butchering it very badly. And after a period of a few minutes, I get a knock on the door, and I open the door, and it's David Bowie. Oh, good gracious. And he looks at me and he says, Hey, John, I heard you were here. Great to meet you. Would you like to come up for a drink?

John McEnroe5:29

And I thought, oh my God, David Bowie's asking me upstairs for a drink. And I said, yeah, I'll come out. He goes, don't bring the guitar.

Speaker 35:38

My school is insane, you heard that

Speaker 35:42

My work's down the train, bam, but she's a total bam-bam. She said she had to squeeze a duchy, and then she, I don't mean on me, man, cause you can't afford the ticket. Back from Suffragin City, I don't mean on me, man, cause you ain't got time to check it. No, my Suffragin City was out of sight. She's alright.

Presenter6:10

That was David Bowie and Suffragette City. You didn't jam with him then, John McEnroe, but you have jammed with Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana, among others. When and where do you play now if your guitar doesn't come around the world with you?

John McEnroe6:23

In my home, you know, I actually have a music set up on the top of my apartment and trying to jam with friends, but I can't get anyone to play with me. That's my wife who was in a pretty big band in the States, and he made a scandal, and she's a great singer, so I had this crazy idea that we'd play in a band together. We've been together about 23 years now, so she looked at me and said, Oh, yeah, we should also play mixed doubles at Wimbledon.

Presenter6:36

Yeah.

John McEnroe6:49

And I go, You don't play tennis. And she goes, Exactly.

John McEnroe6:53

So that was a bit of a downer. Was it difficult to take? The more I listened to tape recordings of what I was playing, the less difficult it was because I didn't really want to be the singer. She would tell you otherwise probably if she was here with me, but I wanted to sort of be like Carlos Antana if I could, you know, get a great singer and maybe sing a little background and play the guitar. But it's tough to find singers. There weren't singers knocking at my door, hey, I want to be in the John McEnroe band.

Presenter7:21

And I I said in the introduction, you know, that that tennis of course has so dominated your life, but there is the music and also I remember reading in the past art, you had an art gallery, do you still have an art gallery?

John McEnroe7:31

I still have an art gallery. It's by appointment only. I'm busy with a lot of things, mainly around tennis. I have six kids total. They were a lot younger then, so it made it difficult because you have to be all in anything you do, whether it's music, art, obviously, sports. I love art and I relate to artists a lot because they're out there on their own and you're exposed and naked and you could lay an egg and it's a horrible feeling, although the other side of it could be the greatest feeling in the world. I mean, I'd always love to collect art at this point. What do you like to collect? Well, I'm very eclectic. I'm all over the place. And I mean, I prefer, I guess, contemporary, even though it's riskier in a financial way. But the idea of knowing living artists and sort of getting in their heads and what they're into and why they're doing what they're doing. Because, you know, 500 years ago, Tinoretto made art that was arguably impossible to top in terms of the quality, how great a draughtsman he is, how well he was able to draw. And so it's not like sports. I thought at one stage, hey, you know, Borg and I and Connors, we're the best of the best. And now you look at Roger Feder and Raphael Nadal, you're like, whoa, the game's at a whole new level. It seems like people get better and better. Whereas in art, that's not necessarily the case. You have to invent something different, which is extremely hard to do.

Presenter8:47

Let's have some more music, John McInroy. Tell me a little bit about this.

John McEnroe8:50

On my second, well, I mean, Chrissy Hahn is an old, old friend of mine, and the reason I picked the song Precious off her first record is because live I played that song with her, which is amazing. I played in six or seven different venues in New York where I played this song. I played a couple other ones, but this is the one that I love and get a kick out of.

Speaker 29:23

I like the way you cross the street, cause you...

Speaker 29:27

That's it.

Speaker 29:29

Moving to the Cleveland Heath. Precious.

Speaker 29:34

You're taking action all that kicks you so

Speaker 29:39

China's shittin' bricks, cause I ain't

Speaker 29:42

That's it.

Presenter9:46

That was The Pretenders and Precious. John McEnroe once uh wrote, The question interviewers always work round to asking me is how did you get that way? And the first thing I tell them is, I'm a New Yorker. I burst out laughing when I read that.

John McEnroe9:59

But why is it true? What do you what do you mean you're a New Yorker? I mean more the energy and the insanity of it in a good way, hopefully. You drive from the airport, there's eight people and you ask all these shake it out of here. So when I first came to London, I was in for quite a shock to see how much different it was here.

Presenter10:15

Does

John McEnroe10:18

It was a family of yellers, you said. A family of yellers, which seemed normal. If you don't know any other way and you're in an environment where that happens all the time, and you've got to sort of basically outshout other people, or they'll walk all over you. It was amazingly surprising to me to come here and suddenly I was like, they think I'm weird?

John McEnroe10:42

And your parents, John and Catherine, what were they yelling about? What was the subject? It didn't matter what it was. They just sort of liked to raise their voice. My father would always say to me, he'd say, John, you don't need to do this type of behavior. You know, you're better than them. Just go out and play. But the way he'd say it, like, you don't need to do this.

Presenter10:47

So

John McEnroe11:01

You're better than them. Like, take it easy. So, there was an intensity from him and an expectation from my mom. You know, I used to tell the story that my dad went to law school and he finished second out of 450 people, and my mom was like, Why didn't you finish first? So, there was this expectation of success, I suppose, that was from a very young age, that my mom and dad expected me to do well.

Presenter11:27

Um there is a thing with Americans, I think it'd be fair to say generally, and particularly with New Yorkers, is they are incredibly and refreshingly straight talking. Would you say your mother was the absolute example of this? Yeah.

John McEnroe11:38

I was

Presenter11:38

But

John McEnroe11:38

It's

Presenter11:38

Uh

John McEnroe11:38

Say that both of them were. Yeah. You know, my dad passed away a couple of months ago, and he was saying it like it is literally. Two days before he passed away, my son came with me to visit him, and he said something to the effect of, did you see me and dad at the Nick game, this basketball game, the other day? And my dad was, you know, barely there. He says, your father and I. He's correcting his grammar. And I didn't know at the time that he was going to pass away two days later. But what I was absolutely amazed at is that, to the absolute bitter end, was going to be the person that he was as long as I knew him.

John McEnroe12:15

Yeah.

Presenter12:15

Tell me about when you very first picked up a tennis racket. What was the sensation?

John McEnroe12:19

Well, I'm going to be truthful and honest here, but I don't remember picking up a tennis racket. I don't remember learning how to play. I just remember knowing how to play. You know, I mean, I know I went and hit against a wall and that I was starting to play at a club at eight and a half years old. And so for whatever reason that I don't know, but if you believe in sort of that outliers theory by Malcolm Gladwell, if you believe in up above, some type of God wanted me to play tennis.

Presenter12:48

A lot more to come, John McEnroe. For now, let's hear your third piece of music. What about?

John McEnroe12:51

Well, this is Bring It On Home by Led Zeppelin. And Led Zeppelin was my favorite band growing up.

John McEnroe12:57

Bring It On Home is actually a cover song. It's not an original Led Zeppelin track. But I had a talk show years ago, and Robert Plant came on, who is obviously, you know, a hero. And we had become friendly-ish. And at one stage, he asked me, What's your favorite Led Zeppelin song? And instead of saying something like Cashmere or Whole Lot of Lover, you know, any number of 50 or 100 songs, I said Bring It On Home. And he looked at me like, Are you kidding me? He didn't say anything, and he tried to sort of rise above it. And I thought, Oh my God, this is one of the most embarrassing moments of my life, perhaps. And I don't think I've seen him since, and that was like 12 years ago.

Speaker 313:57

Gotta love me, baby.

Speaker 313:59

There are some of the men who play it on home.

Speaker 314:03

Bang it out the ball!

Speaker 314:06

With a little walk downtown

Speaker 314:09

Missing on Madeline, pilots get away.

Presenter14:19

That was Led Zeppelin and bring it on home. Uh, John McEnroe, by the time you were twelve years old, you were ranked seven. Seven in the country and the twelve and unders. Yeah. Um, how much of that was about you and how much of it was about your parents wanting it?

John McEnroe14:33

More about my parents then, because even when you're seven, you're losing pretty much every tournament at some stage. I wasn't a big fan of losing, and especially when you're out there by yourself, it's why I try to nurture people at my own tennis academy, because I think it's extremely difficult to be out there by yourself. Individuals.

Presenter14:54

Sporting pursuit is always very interesting, of course. What do you think the characteristics were that you either developed early on or that you had early on that enabled you to be the little guy out on the court?

John McEnroe15:03

Some narcissism, maybe.

Presenter15:03

So narcissists.

John McEnroe15:06

Selfishness, wanting everyone to do everything for you. The perks of succeeding are a lot higher in individual sports. You said earlier to me that you were shy. When did you lose your shyness? I lost that. I'm not sure I've totally lost it, even though I've done a pretty good job of faking it. But certainly not until, I don't believe, my mid-20s. Because my life changed 40 years ago completely. So it was a process that took a number of years until I sort of felt more and more comfortable in my own skin. Uh

Presenter15:39

And of course, by reputation, the outbursts on courts, that aggression that you showed, you know, often very physical aggression. Were you as a young player aggressive off court?

John McEnroe15:48

No, I don't think so at all. I think that I was uh someone that you would wouldn't have expected that from. We didn't have umpires. You know, when you play junior events, there's no umpires, no one to yell at. I definitely played with a lot of intensity and definitely wanted to win, but it wasn't like I was going nuts when I was twelve, fourteen.

Presenter16:08

And so you were eighteen when you came to your first Wimbledon tournament, June of nineteen seventy seven, still an amateur. Um wha what did you make of Britain? What was it about Britain that you thought was so

John McEnroe16:19

They had extremely good manners. The beer was very warm. It tasted terrible. And there was no ice in the entire country. So.

John McEnroe16:28

It appeared, at least to me. Actually, it was a great experience for me to be here because I was totally anonymous here my first year. That was maybe in a way my most enjoyable Wimbledon.

Presenter16:38

Yeah, and what did you actually make of Wimbledon itself, of the of the place of the people, of the term?

John McEnroe16:42

I didn't understand it. I was really taken aback by how tradition-oriented they are. Now I understand that some of that is great. At the time, I thought, these guys are a bunch of stiffs. You know, I don't understand this at all. But I could tell pretty quickly they didn't understand me either. Until I got to the quarters where they moved me into the gentleman's A locker room, did suddenly I get sort of an inkling of what was to come. Which was that when I played the quarterfinals against Phil Denton. I court number one at the time. Court number one, the first time I'd been there, I lost the first set. I took my racket. I put it under my sneaker. I thought, I'm going to snap this damn thing. I can't believe I lost this first set in a tie break. And it's the first time that I recall being booed. And I thought, what are they booing me for? I'm the one that should be upset. You know, why do they care so much? So just as to test them, I decided to kick my racket and kick it to where I was going to sit down to see if that would cause a reaction, which it did. I thought this was the funniest thing. They don't get it. They're missing the joke. And then when I ended up going back to the States, they're like, hey, you're that brat kid, super brat. And all of a sudden, I was, oh my God, even my 18-year-old friend started looking at me sort of weird. It reminded me of that line that Jacob Dylan says, I haven't changed, but I know I ain't the same. And my life.

Presenter17:15

Talk about number one.

Presenter17:53

Yeah, yeah.

John McEnroe18:07

took a complete turn at that moment.

Presenter18:09

Click.

Presenter18:09

Time for more music, John McEnroe. Tell me about this then write on Q, Disc Four.

John McEnroe18:13

Well, it is right on cue because actually this was what was happening big time. And now that Steve Jones, over the course of the last 10, 15 years, has become a friend of mine and I respect him as a person, even though he's completely nuts. But then again, maybe so am I. But this was right at the time where I was, you know, totally anonymous, walking the King's Road and seeing these people. I was like, God, these people are freaks. And then I started thinking, those are the people that really sort of, in a way, rally behind me. And this is just a classic anthem. There's no question about that.

Speaker 318:47

But tweet!

Speaker 318:49

The fascist regime!

Speaker 318:53

It made you a moron!

Speaker 318:56

Potential life!

Speaker 318:59

Dots in between!

Speaker 319:02

She ain't a human being.

Speaker 319:06

There is no future!

Speaker 319:09

And I guess to remember

Speaker 319:17

To need up, there's no future, no future, no future my name

Presenter19:25

That was the Sex Pistols and God Save the Queen. John McEnroe. By the end of the seventies then you were ranked in the top five players in the world. Those above you were of course Bjorn Borg, that was Jimmy Connors, Vitas Geralaisis, Guillermo Vilas. You said that when you were watching Bjorn, of course you you more than admired his considerable playing skills, but you know you saw the girls. When did the girls start to come? When did you get them hanging outside the locker room waiting on John McEnro?

John McEnroe19:48

Well, I never had it to any degree like Mr. Borg or Mr. Geraltis. I tell a story in the book where in Studio 54, which was like the spot where everyone went, and I was five or six in the world. I'd be like, I'm five in the world. Let me in. And they'd like, get out of here, kid. So I'd try to be in touch with Vitas because they rolled out the red carpet for him. I'd say, when did you say you were going? Do you mind if I tag along? I mean, I went to Stanford. This was after I played my first Wimbledon.

Speaker 320:18

Yeah.

John McEnroe20:19

I was ranked, I believe, when I went to Stanford University 21 in the world, which is pretty good. And so I thought, all right, you know, the girls are really going to be impressed by this. And no one gave a rat's ass. So I thought, oh my God, I got to get a lot better than this because this isn't good enough. So that was an incentive. You know, you get things that push you.

Presenter20:41

Your next piece of music, John McInro, let's hear your fifth choice.

John McEnroe20:44

Well, this is a little bit of a sadder one. You know, Nirvana obviously changed music in the early 90s. Kurt Cobain, I had met a couple times, but I was actually in Argentina playing an exhibition, and I was going on stage with a friend of mine who was Argentinian. We were going to maybe play with a couple other people when word came that Kurt Cobain had killed himself. And I think that was probably one of the most down moments I ever felt, just feeling so bad that this had happened. And I went on stage, it was like the white stripes. Me and the drummer, we played easily the worst rendition of Come As You Are in his memory. Hopefully, there's no tapes of this. I'm just praying that you don't click that on and it's me playing in Argentina, that it's Kurt Cobain playing Come As You Are.

Speaker 321:32

Oh, as you were, as you were.

Speaker 321:37

Yes, I want you to be.

Speaker 321:41

Yeah, that's a friend.

Speaker 321:43

Yeah, it's a friend

Speaker 321:45

There's a no leaf. Take your time, hurry up.

Speaker 321:53

Choices, you don't be late.

Speaker 321:57

Take a rest as a friend is unknown.

Speaker 322:04

Uh

Presenter22:07

That was Nirvana and Come As You Are. Um in 1980 of course we should remind people then that you made it through to that Wimbledon final. It went down in history such was the quality and the intensity of the tennis. Indeed Nelson Mandela even said that he was listening to the commentary on the radio while he was on Robin Island. That must have been extraordinary to hear that. To imagine that this match that you were playing that was so personal to you reached out way beyond.

John McEnroe22:33

Well, the bigger thing was the time I met him and he told me the story after he'd gotten out and become President. And this is the most extraordinary handshake I'd ever felt in my entire life. I have goosebumps just thinking about it. And him telling me

John McEnroe22:47

It's an honor to meet you, and I'm looking back on what I should be saying that obviously to him. And then it really put in perspective that he told me he was listening to this match on the radio, which later I figured out, okay, he's talking about when he was in prison for twenty seven years of his life and I'm sitting there whining about a line call.

Presenter23:06

Yeah, I mean we should remind people who haven't seen it recently you won a tie break eighteen sixteen to take the match to a fifth set and you must have thought at that point it's mine.

John McEnroe23:16

Yeah, he had won four in a row. I thought he's going to let down Borg, Bjorn Borg. I thought he'd be discouraged because he had let it slip away, and I had it. And he taught me something. He dug deeper. He showed greater resolve, more will. He was incredibly fit. He was like the Nadal of today.

Presenter23:19

Yeah.

John McEnroe23:34

And in a way, he wore me down. I still thought I had him. And it made me realize after that match, even though I had gained a lot of respect from the players, the fans, the media, everybody, that I needed to improve and I needed to want it more. I needed to get hungrier. I needed to get fitter. So it was a great lesson. And I was very proud to be part of that match, even though I lost it.

Presenter23:56

At that time in your life, and as you were you know performing then at Wimbledon and many other courts around the world, you know, you were haranguing umpires, you were breaking rackets, you sometimes turned the air blue. What was all that about?

John McEnroe24:09

That was about being spoiled, I suppose, and knowing that you could get away with it to a large degree and absolute frustration and anger, not handling myself very well at times. A lot of the time, I believe, it helped me because it got me into it, it got the adrenaline pumping, it got me more energized, and perhaps if that was all it took to throw off someone, that's too bad.

Presenter24:37

Was that a kind of punk sensibility? Was it something about the time that you were playing tennis in, or was it more about you?

John McEnroe24:44

I think it was a combination, but the sport was exploding. There were a lot of personalities in tennis. Connors was, you know, he seemed to misbehave pretty well. So I didn't think I was that bad compared to him or Nastasi. And then people started going, whoa, you know, how could you do this? But it was just such an exciting time to be in tennis. And I suppose, in a way, dare I say, I was coming into my own.

Presenter25:09

We know how closely tennis players these days are monitored in their contracts. Did anybody come and say to you, John, pipe down? This is not good for our brand.

John McEnroe25:16

This is not good for our brand. Phil Knight, who owns Nike, would call me after I would get into some bad situations or misbehave, and he'd say, John, just keep doing what you're doing. Don't change anything. And they'd actually have campaigns that they'd work around that. Tell me about your next piece of this. This next one is.

Presenter25:36

This now

John McEnroe25:39

This reminds me, because this was before my life changed, this makes me remember when I lost my virginity.

John McEnroe25:46

The first unfortunate soul that had to put up with me.

John McEnroe25:51

Love Stevie Wonder, and Stevie Wonder is one of the magnificent musicians and talents in the history of music. And she opened my eyes and ears to a whole sort of different type of music. And so it got me going and thinking, wow, there's a lot more to music than I know.

Speaker 326:07

As we round the sun, the earth never seems revolving.

Speaker 326:12

Rosebuds know the bloomin' early May

Speaker 326:17

Hate knows love's the cure You can rest your mind assure That I'll be loving

Speaker 326:24

Always

Speaker 326:27

Now Cat revealed the mystery up to tomorrow.

Speaker 326:31

But in passing we'll grow older every day.

Speaker 326:37

All that's fun is new. Don't know what I say is f

Speaker 326:41

And I'll be loving you always

Presenter26:47

That was Stevie Wonder and as. It would of course be 1981 then, John McEnroe, when you did finally beat Bjorn Borg to win the first of your three Wimbledon singles titles. And you said being world number one is like the summit of Everest, weird territory, impossible to understand. I'd love to try to sort of understand it. Can you give me a window?

John McEnroe27:07

Well, it's an unbelievably satisfying feeling. And you are sort of the road to number one is a lot more fun than when you actually get on the summit. I think that people that climb Mount Everest, I respect the people that do it, but when you get up there and they take the pictures, and hey, guess what? You got to go back down.

Presenter27:17

Yeah.

John McEnroe27:28

And that's sort of what you feel like at the top. You don't feel that comfort, or I didn't feel it. Well, I was always looking over my shoulder, and what's going to happen next? Can I enjoy the moment? And I wasn't able to as well as I would have liked. That's why I struggled with it at the time and even struggle with it now. I mean, I'm better now, but I'm also 30 years over the hill.

Presenter27:49

One of the most difficult things for people who are in the public eye for a long stretch of time is of course that their life is is scrutinized in every possible way. And when they have their difficult times, they're as scrutinized as the happy times. When has been the most difficult time for you when you've wished that people the press would just butt out?

John McEnroe28:05

Well, at the end of my first marriage was uh extremely difficult and I stopped playing and I tried to just sort of more or less go away. That's really where I got into music. But it was extremely difficult. Unfortunately, it continues to be difficult. That has nothing to do with the press. I can't blame the press for that one. But that's you know

Presenter28:23

Your first marriage, of course, I should remind people, was to Teza M'Neil, who herself was incredibly famous. She was the youngest person at the time who had ever won an Oscar for Paper Moon, and you had three children together. You say now you've got six children in all. Six total, yep. You talk about a loud dinner table.

John McEnroe28:30

Still is still.

Presenter28:39

Uh

John McEnroe28:39

How's it working out for you with six children? Well, it's been, you know, the toughest thing in the world is to be a successful father and to parent kids, especially, I guess, kids that have come from situations where both their parents have some notoriety and some fame and some success, all three, me and both my present wife and my ex-wife. And if you guys aren't on the same page, it makes it extremely tricky and difficult. So I hope and pray every day that my kids will just be happy and healthy and be able to have successful lives.

Presenter28:41

Do you know?

Presenter29:14

Tell me about your seventh choice, John McEnroe. What are you gonna do?

John McEnroe29:16

With the seven choice, just I had to bring this up just because my wife has accused me of being a white rocker. And this is a song that came around very early in my career as I was ascending the ladder towards the top of the game. And all of what was happening felt like this was just happening for the first time. And in addition to that, Mick Jones is an old, old friend of mine. As a matter of fact, he was one of the few people that was at my first wedding. So that's why I picked this particular tune.

Speaker 330:01

Feels like the very best

Speaker 330:05

I have waited a lifetime

Speaker 330:10

Spend my time so foolishly

Speaker 330:14

But now that I've found you

Speaker 330:19

Together we'll make history.

Speaker 330:23

In the

Presenter30:24

That was Foreigner and feels like the first time. Uh John McEnroe when I listen to your commentary, as I often do, you seem very light of spirit. Your sense of humor seems very close to the surface. And I'm wondering, does anything make you mad these days? Being in traffic, you know, on the way to this in

John McEnroe30:39

Interview was upsetting. But that's you didn't seem in the lightest of moods, actually, as you came in. Yeah, I mean, I feel much better now. You know, you've made me feel very comfortable. Thank you. But I get mad at things. I think that the length of the anger is not as long as it was. Generally, it takes more to get me going. That doesn't mean that something's not going to happen tomorrow.

Presenter30:44

Yeah, I mean I feel much

Presenter30:48

I'm saying

John McEnroe31:03

I don't

Presenter31:04

I don't know how much you know about this, but my intention here on this desert island is to cast you away. You're going to be on your own on a desert island, which is why, of course, you've got the eight discs.

John McEnroe31:10

I've heard that a little bit.

Presenter31:12

How do you think you'd be at entertaining yourself, at coping with the situation?

John McEnroe31:16

I'm better than I ever was at being by myself. I do enjoy some time alone, some solitude. I love the companionship of having a happy marriage. I'd love that every one of my kids wanted to speak to me every day. So, I'm not going to lie to you that I'm one of these guys that would be real comfortable, you know, playing Tom Hanks' son on Castaway 2. But nonetheless, I think I'm better equipped to handle it now than I've been. So, through fairly lengthy periods of times, I believe I could survive.

Presenter31:47

Tell me about your final piece of music, John Mackiner. What are we going to hear?

John McEnroe31:50

Well, the final piece of music is an energy song, is how I would describe it. It's one of the great songs to me of the last 20 years. And it so happens that one of my best friends is in the band Rage Against the Machine. I didn't see him in their heyday, but I saw him when they first came back about 10 years ago. And I was amazed at how athletic they were on stage and the amount of craziness that was going on in the crowd, people just absolutely going nuts and wanting to sort of jump out of their pants and skin with something I could relate to.

Speaker 332:31

Some of those that work forces.

Speaker 332:34

Are the same that bar crosses?

Speaker 332:37

Some of those that work forces

Speaker 332:40

Or the same that bar crosses

Speaker 332:43

Some of those that work forces

Speaker 332:46

On the scene that bar crosses

Speaker 332:49

Some of those that work forces

Speaker 332:52

Drama saved at birth crosses!

Speaker 332:59

Killing in the name of

Presenter33:04

Killing in the name, that was rage against the machine. So, uh, John, it's time for me I give every castaway some books to take to the island. You get the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. Oh, my God.

John McEnroe33:13

Let's keep

Presenter33:13

Going. You also get to take a book of your own. What's your own book gonna be?

John McEnroe33:14

Okay.

John McEnroe33:18

I'm gonna have to go with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which is one of my all-time favorite movies and one of my all-time favorite actors who I shared a scene with in Anger Management.

Presenter33:27

And that would make me feel good. Great. Okay, you can have that. You're allowed a luxury, too, and this is something it can't be too useful, but something to make life just a little bit more bearable on this island. What's it going to be?

John McEnroe33:37

I would have to pick an old vintage Martin acoustic guitar. I could master my craft if I had enough time. And I'd have a lot of time.

Presenter33:43

Okay.

Presenter33:45

Yeah, that's fine. You can have that. And if the disks were to threaten to be washed away into the sea, which is the one disk that you would run to save?

John McEnroe33:54

That's a tough one. I would have to pick

Presenter33:57

Come As You Are by Nirvana. It's yours. John McEnroe, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Highland discs. Thanks for having me.

Presenter34:48

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website, bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4.

Speaker 335:20

This is the BBC.