Stella McCartney

Presenter0:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:02

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:13

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:20

This edition of Desert Island Discs with Stella McCartney is an extended version of the original Radio Four broadcast.

Presenter0:49

My castaway this week is the fashion designer, Stella McCartney. She sells effortlessly cool in souciant style, which is interesting because building a global brand with fifty-odd stores and a multi-million pound turnover must have taken quite a lot of effort on her part. She has now stretched well beyond her beginnings in women's wear and expanded her empire to include collections for men and children, fragrance, handbags, and sportswear. Indeed, she even kits out Team GB athletes for the Olympics. She always wanted a life a la mode. At twelve her first ever design was a fake swede bomber jacket. By fifteen she was doing work experience with Christiane Lacroix in Paris. And by twenty-five the fashion pack's perfectly plucked eyebrows were raised in astonishment to see her replace the legendary Carl Lagerfeld at Chloe. But she triumphed. Her collections of skinny trousers, silky lace trimmed slips and spiked stilettos increased turnover there by 400%. She says, I was drawn into fashion because I'm really interested in serving women and providing women with solutions, trying to figure out what we need and why we need that and why we wear stuff, how it makes us feel.

Presenter1:58

And how is what you're wearing today influencing how you're feeling, Stella McCartney?

Stella McCartney2:02

Ah.

Stella McCartney2:03

Well, I'm wearing a jumpsuit, and they always make me feel quite confident, I have to say.

Presenter2:07

Do you know, it strikes me that you're one of those designers, there aren't many of them really, who sort of you're like Tom Ford, you are the embodiment of what it is, of the style that you are selling. When they buy his clothes, they want to buy a bit of him, and when they come into your stores, they want to buy a little bit of you with your brand. And that's quite a pressure on you. I mean, what what happens if you're just having one of those days where you think, you know, I don't want to get all togged up, I don't want to look cool, I just want to put on my uggs and my fleece and have a normal day?

Stella McCartney2:36

I think comfort is a big part of how I design. I mean, I don't use.

Presenter2:39

I mean, I don't know.

Stella McCartney2:41

leather or fur and you know I'm a a pretty sustainable designer so my uggs are are not part of the equation. But I definitely understand the idea of just being yourself and not trying too hard through what you're wearing, you know.

Presenter2:46

I definitely don't know.

Presenter2:52

That seems like a contradiction, though, to say not trying too hard through what you're wearing, because surely.

Presenter2:56

You know, buying expensive clothes is it is about trying hard. It is about trying to get it.

Stella McCartney3:00

No, I think that you have to wear the clothes, not let the clothes wear you. I think it's really important for you to take control of your wardrobe. You know, women choose to buy my clothes. I don't make them buy them.

Stella McCartney3:10

I've always sort of thought, you know, it it takes a lot to buy something that's made well and that is sort of mindful in design and in manufacture.

Stella McCartney3:19

You have to make those decisions, I think, based on who you are and have them bring something else to your life, make your life better, but not make your life not your life.

Presenter3:27

Your life. If you go out and about and you see somebody wearing a jacket or a pair of trousers that you designed ten years ago in a collection, do you think that's a triumph then? If she is still wearing them ten years later, that's a sign you're doing your job.

Stella McCartney3:36

But that's just

Stella McCartney3:37

Definitely. I'm really embarrassing. I go up to people in the street and I'm like, oh, nice bag, even if they don't know who I am. And actually, it's funnier, there was some somebody I saw in the street actually only yesterday that had a bag of mine that was about ten years old and she looked at me and I looked at her and I thought this is awkward and I was really chuffed. For me it's a real achievement. You know I'm not interested in landfill. I'm interested in reuse and and continuous design. I think

Stella McCartney4:02

Staying power on in every sense of the word is really important.

Presenter4:06

Tell me about this first choice this morning then. It's been agonizing for you this. I get the feeling.

Stella McCartney4:10

I get the feelings, press.

Stella McCartney4:12

I think, you know, it's just music is a massive part of my life. It's been there from day one. Then it's continued to be there in a different way. The first song I chose is by Nirvana, Teen Spirit. And I think it's interesting for me. I wanted to be a fashion designer from such an early age. And I was observing fashion through my parents' wardrobe, which was obviously sort of 60s, 70s, 80s, you know, very flamboyant in some places.

Stella McCartney4:42

And then I I left home and I became a fashion designer. I went to college and and I would always refer to musical moments and I still do. So for me the punk rock movement, for example, in Great Britain was such a massive part of fashion.

Stella McCartney4:56

And out of that came so many great designers. And I think for me, this moment was my equivalent to see, you know, Grunge and to see what was happening in America at that time and being

Stella McCartney5:08

A student in St. Martin's in the 90s. It was the first moment that we had a musical movement that was creating also a fashion movement.

Stella McCartney5:15

And you know, I'm half American, so for me this is is a song that I really kind of the grid of it and it's just it's a powerful song and a powerful moment in music and fashion, I think.

Speaker 45:38

Put up all guns, bring your friends, fun to lose, and to pretend she's overborn. Self for sure, no, no, the dirt.

Presenter5:55

That was Nirvana and smells like teen spirit. Memories for you, Stella McCartney, of those days at Central St. Martin's. And we'll talk a bit more about that later, the college you went to to learn your trade. You touched on this, the idea that, you know, the fashion industry and the fashion world can be a dubiously disposable one these days. This idea that we go onto the high street and we buy something for thirty quid and it doesn't matter if we only wear it three times and throw it in the bin and buy another thing. As consumers, what would be your advice as to how we can best negotiate that disposability that that seems to be just routine these days in fashion?

Stella McCartney6:29

You know, I think it's not only fashion, it's the world we live in. I think be conscious in your consumption, I guess is all I can say. And I think that we need to ask more questions, write more letters, you know, say do you really need to wrap all of that in plastic and what is the plastic you're using? And, you know, if you care about that stuff. If you don't care, then, you know, that's allowed. Just being accountable and asking questions and trying to make investments, I think, is a good idea. You know, instead of spending X amount on ten things, maybe spend that X amount on one thing that will last you longer, that will have more meaning to you.

Presenter7:07

When I try to think of the fashion industry and the women in it, I mean I've got plenty fingers left on one hand when I think about the women and I think about well there's some Donna Carron, obviously for many years, there's now Sarah Burton, Alexander McQueen, there's Mucia Prada and there's you, and I can't think of many others at that level, at the very top of design.

Presenter7:27

Why is that the case?

Stella McCartney7:29

That's a historical one. I think that, you know, when I came into fashion it was even less probably. I think it was always that idea that the men in the boardroom chose the men in the design room, possibly, and and maybe historically women felt comfortable with men dressing them. I I think it's changed. I think women

Stella McCartney7:48

Designing for women is really powerful and really important. There are very few of us, not enough of us. I've always said that behind every great man there are many, many, many great women. The majority of of I have nearly eighty percent women in my company. You do? Yeah. I mean, it is rare. We again, it's slightly, slightly rare, but um.

Stella McCartney8:09

There's a lot of very impressive women working in the fashion industry behind the scenes.

Presenter8:14

One of the very successful parts of your current business is your sportswear. Range, you've been doing it for a while now and of course famously you've been designing, I think, for two Olympics now, the Team GB.

Stella McCartney8:24

Working with athletes was incredible. Very different requirements, very different needs, very technical. But I had to work with Paralympians, I had to work with many, many different disciplines, thousands of garments. And um the trunks were very small. The little trunks, yes. Um it was an amazing challenge because also I wanted to unify the team. It was the first time that Ever

Stella McCartney8:48

A designer, a little and a woman designer, had

Stella McCartney8:51

designed an entire Olympic teams kit. For me, it was really important to unify everyone. And when I spoke to the athletes, they wanted to feel like a team. And so to get that artwork and to try and sort of place it onto a variety of scales, it was really amazing and a real challenge.

Presenter9:10

I would hate to seem preoccupied with this, but did the trunks have to be that small?

Stella McCartney9:14

You know, he wanted them that small.

Presenter9:15

This is Tom Daily.

Stella McCartney9:16

Yeah, Tom Daly likes this

Presenter9:17

He likes a small short, it seems.

Stella McCartney9:18

It seems. Mm-hmm.

Presenter9:19

I blame him.

Presenter9:21

Let's have your next piece of music, Stella McCartney. What are we going to hear now?

Stella McCartney9:24

You're going to hear talking heads, and this is a funny one for me because I

Stella McCartney9:31

Basically, I was at school, I was sort of in my teens, and there was a competition on some crisp packets that meant that you could win vinyl, you could win LPs. And I thought this was a great challenge, and I felt that I should set it to myself to eat as many packets of crisps as possible and get as many records as I could. So I did. And so, this was the first single that I got via a crisp packet that I will not name.

Speaker 410:06

Well

Speaker 410:07

He loves children.

Speaker 410:10

We know

Speaker 410:12

What we want and the future is certain.

Speaker 410:18

Give us time to

Speaker 410:21

Work it out.

Speaker 410:27

Yeah.

Speaker 410:34

On the road to nowhere

Presenter10:40

That was Talking Heads and Road to Nowhere. We've done pretty well, Stella McCartney. We are, I don't know, maybe about fifteen, sixteen minutes into our recording and we haven't yet mentioned your incredibly famous father and that must surely be a record I think in the interview with you. The reason I bring him up right now is it is notable to me that you said that you got that uh single because you saved up Chris Packets and sent them off.

Stella McCartney10:52

Yeah.

Presenter11:01

That's unusual for somebody in your position, I would say, for somebody who whose whose father had changed the face of recordings. You're not just given free funds all the time.

Stella McCartney11:11

Tons and tons and tons.

Presenter11:12

No records. Records.

Stella McCartney11:14

Well, I was given records, yes, but mostly predominantly by by my dad, not by um talking heads.

Presenter11:18

It's not like

Presenter11:21

I always ask Castaways about their parents, and of course you're going to be no different from anybody else. What are what are your earliest memories of life at home?

Stella McCartney11:27

just love and energy and

Stella McCartney11:31

Just really tight family. You know, we grew up in the countryside, really. We moved from London when I was about five. And we literally moved to a round house in the middle of the forest with two bedrooms in the roof. So there were four of us kids. A lot of my memories are sibling related.

Stella McCartney11:50

But a lot of travel and a lot of life experiences.

Presenter11:54

And was there music in the house? Were you always were were people playing instruments?

Stella McCartney11:57

Tons of music, always. I mean that was the the driving force in every moment of our childhood. You know, my mum loved Neil Young, a lot of Harvest Moon and Bob Marley and Talking Heads. They loved a lot of their music. And you know, obviously Dad would come home every day from working in the studio and we'd listen to what he'd he'd created that day in the office.

Presenter12:18

And did he want your critique on that? Was he interested in what the family thought?

Stella McCartney12:21

You know, he always jokes that he literally can't get arrested. You know, he'd sit and pick up a guitar and be jamming out and be like, Dad, shut up I'm gonna watch Telly You know, he was always like, God, I can people would die to hear me play and my children are telling me to shut up.

Presenter12:35

It's a very interesting thing. As I as I read through, you know, the the notes on your life, I thought, well, here is somebody who you know, I look at Mullive Kintyre, and I mean, obviously, I know it's a place in Scotland, I've been there, but to me it's a record, but to you it was where you used to escape with your family. That's a sort of strange paradox in your life, that we kind of have public ownership of parts of your life that are intensely private memories.

Stella McCartney12:58

I struggled with that a lot growing up. I mean, yeah, the Mull of Kentyre for me is where we would escape and where we lived for a while. And it still is, actually. And then, of course, I have the memories of them creating that video there and all of the bagpipers turning up and mum and dad leaving and sort of going to shoot a video. And it's like, where are you going today? We're all just hanging out, you know, bareback on horses. Where are you going?

Stella McCartney13:19

It has always been something that I've tried to get my head around. This idea that people know a lot more about me than I know about them from the outset.

Presenter13:30

Or they certainly think they know a lot.

Stella McCartney13:31

Yeah.

Presenter13:31

Yeah.

Stella McCartney13:31

Yeah.

Presenter13:31

Cool.

Stella McCartney13:32

I always would go under a different name actually. I would always be Stella Martin at school and that was always a bit confusing for people. Did people at school know? Yeah, no, they knew. But when I, for instance, when I started college, I sort of tried to do it under a different name. And then I would never tell anyone. And then the discovery was always a bit painful when you could tell people in the corridor were kind of looking at you differently or, you know, it was always a bit, oh God, they know. I mean, I had it once, I was doing a a fashion foundation course. We were meeting the year ahead and I was sitting with a couple of classmates and this girl came in and she said, oh, you know, did I come on then? Where is she? Where is she? And I was like, oh, no. She's like, come on, where is she? And they were just, it was so painful. I was like, oh, I'm here. I think you're talking about me. I'm here.

Stella McCartney14:13

Yeah.

Presenter14:13

Is that sensation the sensation that people want something from you, or they want to or why are they being nice to me, or are they actually interested in me? What is what's the sensation? Yeah.

Stella McCartney14:23

You just don't have a completely clean slate, I don't think. You you're always questioning things a little. I think it might be part of my drive and my desire to prove people wrong and and to

Stella McCartney14:35

you know, I think there's a little bit of that in there, and a little bit in in my career of sort of saying, look, you know, I can do this and um it's both really positive, obviously. It's it's an incredible asset to have. It's weirdly in the day and age that we live in. And at the same time it it's um

Stella McCartney14:53

You know, it can be a little bit of a

Stella McCartney14:55

A hindrance at ti at times. But it's I you know what? I'm the most blessed human being on the planet. I'm good.

Presenter15:00

And the bareback horse riding. I mean, there's a lot you know, a lot of parents would have their head in their hands at the thought of that. Yeah, it was it was encouraged, was it, in all of you, a sort of adventurousness and a a kind of free spiritedness.

Stella McCartney15:04

Uh

Stella McCartney15:07

Yeah, sort of

Stella McCartney15:10

Yeah, my mum was a huge horse rider, as is my dad, and um

Stella McCartney15:16

We were pretty much left to our own devices in Scotland. Very the opposite of parenting now. You know, I question we're all well I'm sure I'm not the only one. We're way too hands-on, way too involved in our children's lives, way too cautious. And we were the opposite. We were literally left to roam the fields of Scotland, fall off our horses and our horses would end up back at the stable and we'd be walking for miles home.

Stella McCartney15:42

They have incredible freedom. And they're the best memories of my life, though. You know, those moments of.

Stella McCartney15:49

looking at clouds and just your freedom, you know, and my mum and dad were in the studio making Ram.

Presenter15:54

Tell me about your next piece of music. What are we gonna hear?

Stella McCartney15:57

Well, talking of my dad and his musical talents, it would have been a little bit odd had I not have chosen one of his songs. And I have to say this is the biggest struggle of of doing a show like this for me.

Stella McCartney16:09

Because all of his music has some kind of meaning on a really personal level and I obviously really love it all.

Stella McCartney16:16

I think I chose um Blackbird by Dad because

Stella McCartney16:22

I number one, I love the song. I find it incredible how contemporary this song feels. It just has never aged, which I find shocking. And I'm really proud of this song. I'm so proud of Dad that he wrote it, that at such a young age he had

Stella McCartney16:38

This sort of incredible vision to understand politics, to understand poetry.

Presenter16:43

'Cause he said it was about the civil rights stuff.

Stella McCartney16:44

Yeah.

Stella McCartney16:47

Voice on that, the Beatles. You know, they refused to play segregated gigs. They were the first probably to do that. And, you know, these are guys from Liverpool that had a whole different set of skills, you know, and I think it's astonishing this song for so many reasons. You know, I've always watched my dad on tour from birth. And he didn't have Blackbird in his set list for many years. And I was like, Dad, you've got to put Blackbird in. Like, it's such an amazing song. And he looked at me and he was like, that is a hard song to play, Stella. Like, that is a solo. It's a really pressurized moment for me. And I was really happy that he put it back in.

Stella McCartney17:25

And so now I watch him on stage singing this song and I he has his grandchildren there, you know, my kids watch him and

Stella McCartney17:33

I understand the confidence that he has to have in order to even deliver that to hundreds of thousands of people. And so, yeah.

Speaker 417:42

Blackbirds singing in the dead of night.

Speaker 417:46

Take these broken wings and learn to fly.

Speaker 417:51

All your life

Speaker 417:55

You are only waiting for this moment to arrive.

Speaker 418:05

Blackbirds singing in the dead of night.

Speaker 418:10

Take thee, sunken eyes

Presenter18:12

Is learnt to see

Speaker 418:13

Yeah.

Presenter18:13

As perfect a couple of musical moments as one could wish for. That was the Beatles and Blackbird. You you told me there, Stella McCartney, that your dad tried to teach that to one of your kids. How did it go?

Stella McCartney18:16

That was the beat.

Stella McCartney18:22

Yeah.

Presenter18:24

Yeah.

Stella McCartney18:24

Uh, it went well, actually.

Presenter18:25

Quite difficult.

Stella McCartney18:25

Quite difficult. Yeah, it's a hard song to play on the guitar. You know, he did it. He had the first bit for a while and then, you know.

Presenter18:33

Did you take music lessons? Were you given lessons by your dad when you were growing up or you're

Stella McCartney18:36

Oh my god, no. It's pretty hard to take music lessons when you're in McCartney, I think. I mean, my dad's completely self-taught. He can't even read music.

Stella McCartney18:45

And he plays every instrument, so

Stella McCartney18:48

I did have piano lessons for a while, but it was just sort of the conventional piano lesson situation that didn't really resonate with me.

Presenter18:56

I read that y you would often go on tour with your parents. What's that like from the kids' point of view?

Stella McCartney19:02

I think it depends what age you are. When I was younger, you're oblivious, and it's great fun, and the most incredible thing.

Stella McCartney19:08

is you get to travel the world and you see that the world

Stella McCartney19:13

Is varied and vast, and I think that's been a big part of how I approach my work.

Stella McCartney19:19

But when we were when I then went onto her again, I was seventeen and so I was just kind of doing my own thing a little bit. We were we were allowed to stay in places. I remember

Stella McCartney19:28

Um my sister and I, Mary, stayed in New Orleans for the Jazz Fest when dad played New Orleans and they went on to the next gig and we were afforded to stay to to go to the jazz fest and saw Fats Domino and Patty LaBelle and Toots and the Mattels and the Neville brothers and oh, it w you know, it was amazing.

Stella McCartney19:45

And the gospel tense and stuff. So we were given a certain amount of freedom, yeah.

Presenter19:51

Um your family has a reputation for, as they were bringing you up, trying to make you and your siblings as sort of normal as possible, and you've touched on that. You went to comprehensive school.

Presenter20:00

What do you make of that decision by your parents now? Because you you're a parent yourself. When you look back on it, what do you think?

Stella McCartney20:05

I think it was an amazing

Stella McCartney20:08

Privilege to go to a comprehensive school for me personally. It, um,

Stella McCartney20:13

I think it's shaped a lot of sort of who I am and how I look at things.

Presenter20:17

Please.

Stella McCartney20:18

You have a an understanding of of of other people. You know, I d it worked for us. We went to the local comp and it worked for us and it's not what, you know, my kids don't. So I can't sit and say that I have an issue with either way of educating people.

Presenter20:33

Is it true that as a little girl you sat on David Bowie's knee?

Stella McCartney20:36

I will have done that.

Presenter20:39

And you just kind of know that that happens. It's likely, is it?

Stella McCartney20:42

You know, the th it is mad actually, and one of one of my song choices that you're coming to is is reflecting on on, yeah, my extraordinary varied life and and the people that I met growing up, from Quincy Jones to Michael Jackson to Bowie to yeah, I mean

Stella McCartney20:58

I mean, I met everyone and they had a they were an incredible influence on on me.

Presenter21:03

I mean, I know as you're going through it, Stella, it's it's just your childhood, and it is normal because those are the people you're meeting. But now.

Stella McCartney21:09

Yeah, it's mad.

Presenter21:10

When you look back on that, w how do you think it it it has shaped you into the person you are? What influence do you think it had on you?

Stella McCartney21:11

How do you

Stella McCartney21:16

You know, I would go at a weekend I'd be hanging out with, I don't know, Peter Gabriel or, you know, John Lennon, and then I'd go back to school on Monday and I would not tell a living soul.

Stella McCartney21:28

So that was interesting, that kind of idea that um you know, that doesn't look good. Hey, yeah, you know, me and Neil Young were doing this on Wednesday. You know, it's not a good look. So that was one side of me that was aware of the the people's judgment on me.

Presenter21:37

Yeah.

Stella McCartney21:44

And then you'd be also wanting to enjoy that experience. And obviously, they're human beings. For me, they're people.

Stella McCartney21:50

Though then I got to a stage where

Stella McCartney21:53

They were people, but they were great people. I'd be like, oh my god.

Stella McCartney21:57

I love hanging out with Michael Jackson. Who wouldn't want to do that? So, you know, as you get a bit older.

Stella McCartney22:02

you'd start to try and sort of understand that character and their talent and I wanted to do something in the creative arts so

Stella McCartney22:11

You start to then look at them in a different way.

Presenter22:15

the most significant impression upon you.

Stella McCartney22:18

I couldn't pinpoint one of them. I couldn't. They're just too magnificent, all of them. But, you know, you can't say, well,

Stella McCartney22:26

For me, something that George Harrison might have said to me as a child, or something that

Presenter22:29

Or something

Stella McCartney22:31

Bowie might have said they're all they're just incredi you know, Dylan, it's too much. They're two magnificent creatures for me. How on earth you got this down to eight? I'll be right back.

Presenter22:40

I know, that's tell me about your fourth. Yeah.

Stella McCartney22:44

Yeah.

Stella McCartney22:45

My fourth is David Bowie.

Stella McCartney22:47

For me, doing this process, it was about the kind of memories as a kid and then also trying to bring it into the now.

Stella McCartney22:54

And for me, Bowie did it in a way that, you know, we'd go to parties as children and get shoved in the room and Bowie and Iggy Pop and everyone was outside and mum and dad were like, You're right, let's just stick the telly on. You know, it was a bit of an iPad situation. And so I had that memory of him. And then when I started designing, I got this award in New York, which at the time was by Vogue and it was Anna Winter and it was the VH1 Fashion Awards. And I won Designer of the Year, which was a big, big deal. And David gave it to me.

Stella McCartney23:26

And my dad, but dad was a surprise and David sort of was the the one I knew about presenting me with the award.

Stella McCartney23:34

And it just blew my brains really that David Bowie was giving me an award.

Stella McCartney23:39

and he'd seemed to know me since I was a baby.

Stella McCartney23:41

A few years later he asked me to give him an award at the G Q Awards and so I was just like wow, you know.

Stella McCartney23:47

I just think his his music is incredible. What an amazing talent and so modern again, so relevant and so modern and so individual, what an incredible individual voice he had.

Speaker 424:01

There's a starman waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet us, but he thinks he'd blow our minds. There's a starman waiting in the sky. He's told us not to blow it, cause he knows it's all worthwhile. He's home. Let the children lose it.

Speaker 424:24

The Children Beauty said belong to Children Blue Games

Presenter24:32

That was David Bowie and Starman. At Stella McCartney, tell me about this pink bomber jacket and fake suite that you made when you were twelve.

Stella McCartney24:40

I'd never have told anyone about that. It was just the first thing I actually got to make. You know, I knew I wanted to be a designer.

Stella McCartney24:47

I'm I'm sure around six, seven, eight, you know, very, very early. But it was the first object that I made. Where did you get the fake pink suede?

Presenter24:53

But

Presenter24:55

Yeah.

Stella McCartney24:55

Luckily my parents were half in real life and half on the stage and so my mum had um a lovely lady called Pammy Keats.

Stella McCartney25:04

Um, who would help her with her wardrobe and so I think she helped get the fabric.

Presenter25:08

As work placements go, you have had some quirkers. When you were fifteen, and I'm guessing this is very much the upside. You know, you you worked in in Paris with Christian Lacroix, and I think this was the time at which he was just starting his couture. It was his first ever couture. So it was highly embellished, Baroque, very, very sort of sensual materials. And then you also did work placement a little while later with Betty Jackson, which seems to me, of course, she's the very antithesis of Lacroix in that she's that sort of pared down minimalist quiet beauty in her clothes. What did you learn from those people when you worked with them?

Stella McCartney25:13

Yeah, so

Stella McCartney25:15

Yeah.

Stella McCartney25:20

It was his first.

Stella McCartney25:21

So this is

Stella McCartney25:33

And that she's with

Stella McCartney25:41

Well, I mean, I was fifteen when I worked for Lacroix. Yeah. And so I was petrified. It's sort of my first memory. I was in Paris. I'd never been away from home. And it was opulence. It was glamour. It was drama. I mean, it was everything you'd think of. It was his first it was couture as well.

Presenter25:43

Yeah.

Presenter25:59

Yes, and just to explain the difference between sort of high-end designer wear and couture, couture is different because.

Stella McCartney26:05

Oh, it's just deadly posh and, you know, costs a lot, a lot of money. Um, no, couture is you have to have it made in Paris. It has to be handmade. But I don't think there's much machinery involved. It's it's it's extraordinarily

Stella McCartney26:19

particular and incredible really.

Presenter26:21

What were you given to do as a fifteen-year-old in his

Stella McCartney26:23

A lot of tea, a lot of coffee, a lot of running around. I l I was lacing the shoes. I got to be around him. I was in some of the fittings actually, which was extr a real honour.

Stella McCartney26:33

I wouldn't let an intern into my fittings now at fifteen. So I was there pinning and a lot of the fittings on the models the night before the show, late night. There were these caverns. So I was it was a real I have very theatrical memories o of that moment. And then I worked with Betty much later on when I was sort of I think around eighteen, nineteen. It was my year out and I I it was really sweet actually because I asked her for advice and she gave me great advice. She said that

Stella McCartney27:00

You know, yes, you think you want to be a fashion designer, but you should really take this moment to look at all different areas of fashion and as a business and see if that if you really still come out of that process wanting to be a fashion designer. So I did. I went and worked for Vogue and I went and worked in a PR department. I worked in a shop for a little while.

Stella McCartney27:21

And so I got all-round sort of experience and still came away wanting to be a designer.

Presenter27:26

When you were at Central St Martin's, in the evenings I I've read that you would go and learn tailoring in Saville Row with Edward Sexton. What what was the most useful thing that you learned, wa watching those people ply their incredibly skilled trade?

Stella McCartney27:37

Incredible.

Stella McCartney27:38

It was funny. Edward was a pattern cutter for the late, great Tommy Nutter, who was really for me a massive influence on my tailoring.

Presenter27:42

He was

Stella McCartney27:48

You know, I used to I did tailoring in my degree show and I I think I'm you know quite known for that side of my design. And it was this idea of men's tailoring on women, very British, bespoke, the kind of equivalent of couture really in tailoring. And so I went and worked in my my hours off from St Martin's because I was learning one side of life at college which was the sort of extreme creative side which I loved.

Stella McCartney28:14

But I wasn't learning the technical side that I really wanted to learn. I wanted to learn how to make a British suit, you know, the best suit in the world. And so I would go.

Stella McCartney28:23

Down to Edward, and it was great because it was the absolute opposite of fashion. And so everything I'd experienced.

Stella McCartney28:31

at at Lacroix or in St Martin's where everyone was very sort of dramatic and and fashionister, I went there and they were literally just drinking ale, smoking fags and you know telling dirty jokes and they could have been bricklayers really for all I knew and it was just this idea that it took you know I I was there for three years and I barely learnt to set a sleeve in in into a suit head and and just this craft.

Stella McCartney28:57

that is dying sadly and um it was one of the greatest learning experiences of my life.

Presenter29:02

Your degree show at your graduation at Central St Martin's caused a mini sensation. I mean, it I don't know if it was front page, but it was certainly page three or four or five. You had just to remind people, you had modelling at this degree show and this is where all the graduates show the stuff that they want to sort of showcase their design talent.

Stella McCartney29:10

Three or four or five.

Presenter29:20

There was Kate Moss, Yasmin Le Bon, and Naomi Campbell. Have I missed anyone out?

Stella McCartney29:23

I mean there were more, but you've you've done the higher guesses there.

Presenter29:26

I think that's bad.

Presenter29:27

Um plus of course your your mum and dad were there in the front row.

Stella McCartney29:31

Yeah.

Presenter29:31

What did you think when you saw the coverage the next day?

Stella McCartney29:34

I look back on that moment and just feel a bit embarrassed that I was so naive. They were my mates, and that's who I was hanging out with when I was at college.

Stella McCartney29:44

And um I mean Kate was living with me for a period of time. We were w that's what I was engaging in outside of you know my college life.

Stella McCartney29:53

So when it came to choosing the models for my degree show,

Stella McCartney29:57

I kind of thought, well.

Stella McCartney29:59

might as well ask my my friends. I can understand why it was obviously headline news and why it probably pissed my fellow students off a tad, but it was a very brit moment. It was you know, it was a moment where

Stella McCartney30:12

Brit was flying and it was you these girls were traveling the world representing Great Britain really. And so when I asked them, I mean it's not like I do think had another person have asked them, I think they might have done it also. It was a moment where they were like, yeah, we'll do a degree show for Britain. You know, of course they were doing it for me because I think it's nice to think that, but yeah.

Presenter30:31

I think it's nice to think that, but yeah. Okay, who is that? Yeah, these are girls who wouldn't get out of bed, as they famously said, for less than $10,000.

Stella McCartney30:34

Yeah, who am I signing for?

Stella McCartney30:37

Yeah.

Presenter30:40

Um let's have some more music sitting in the party. So we're going to hear your fifth disc. Just tell me a little bit about this choice.

Stella McCartney30:46

This is a song that was written by George Harrison, who again, you know, sorry to keep falling back on my my heritage in music, but um he was a big part of of my life growing up too. And it's just for me one of the most beautiful songs. It makes me want to cry every time I hear it. But this is a version by somebody really random called Phyllis Dylan, who I discovered this version of this song when I was in Jamaica because as a child we would always

Stella McCartney31:15

go there for our New Year's holidays, and we would religiously go down to all of the record stores and my mum and dad would just collect reggae. And so I started doing it when I was a little bit older and I came across this version of something.

Speaker 431:34

Something in the way he moved

Speaker 431:42

Attracts me like no awful lover

Speaker 431:48

Something in the way he moves.

Speaker 431:55

I don't wanna leave it now

Speaker 431:58

You know I don't leave at home.

Presenter32:06

That was Phyllis Dylan singing something written by George Harrison. The fashion world, Stella McCartney, isn't known for its warm heart, but I have to say that Karl Lagerfeld's quote when he took over from him at Chloe in 1997 was quite something. I should remind people. These are his direct words. Chloe should have taken a big name. They did, but in music, not fashion. Let's hope she's as gifted as her father.

Presenter32:30

You were j yeah, nice. You were just

Presenter32:34

You were just twenty-five years old.

Stella McCartney32:35

Yeah

Presenter32:37

How did you approach the task in hand?

Stella McCartney32:40

Well, I didn't respond to that.

Presenter32:42

To know.

Stella McCartney32:42

Aldum

Presenter32:44

You know what, I just got on with it. It was actually fivefold for heavy.

Stella McCartney32:50

At the time I was honored that he even knew my name, and he's been very gracious since, and I don't think it was um something he he feels proud he he said probably.

Presenter33:01

So fashion, of course, like show is a business. You don't famously use leather or fur or feathers in any of your collections and you never have. These are very popular materials in the fashion world. Since you went into partnership with a big luxury conglomerate, have they ever tried to convince you that actually now, Stella, is the time when you need to embrace the bigger fashion world and appeal to as many customers as possible?

Stella McCartney33:28

I mean, I've had that many times in my career.

Stella McCartney33:31

It's never going to change for me. It's in my DNA. And actually, it's the one thing I think that makes my fashion brand modern and relevant and current. And I think it's the one thing that makes the others not. I don't use any PVC. All of my Viscos now is from Sustainable Wood. It's such an exciting way for me to approach my business.

Presenter33:55

Yes, I w because I wanted to ask you about that. I had a a feel that some of you are not leather shoes, and they do really feel like leather. And I was wondering what is the impact environmentally of the chemicals that you are using to get those shoes to feel like that? It might be equivalent to the problems that we have with the amount of

Stella McCartney34:09

The hit?

Presenter34:13

cows that were using for beef and leather.

Stella McCartney34:14

Good point. Well, it's not. One thing I do that has the biggest impact environmentally, I do my environmental profit and loss, I do those numbers. I'm one of the few businesses to do that in fashion. And the biggest impact I have positively on not hurting the environment is not using leather. The chemicals we use that we actually avoid that. We use a lot of vegetable oil coatings and we're really trying our best. At the same time, we're not perfect. Does it use more water than conventional cotton? You know, these are all questions that we ask. And I think it's important to ask them. I think the luxury fashion industry does not ask these questions enough. And I think that young companies will and are.

Presenter34:57

Your mother, Linda, of course, had built and grown a business with her own brand vegetarian food line. She she was a real pioneer in her way doing that in the beginning. Did she ever give you any advice as you started out in business as to how to how to run a small business?

Stella McCartney35:12

Sadly she wasn't alive when I started my own business, but um she was just always really encouraging, really warm and loving and and really I think

Stella McCartney35:25

the person in my life telling me to believe in myself.

Stella McCartney35:29

She was incredible, the way that she brought um vegetarian food to this country and you know, alternatives like veggie burgers, veggie sausages, and giving people an option if they didn't want to eat meat. It was so ahead of its time.

Stella McCartney35:44

I think the the courage you have to have to be the wife of a beetle and to try and save animals unapologetically and to not wear a load of makeup and to not, you know, compromise.

Stella McCartney35:57

It's extraordinary. I think that those are my biggest lessons that she gave me, even indirectly. And she got a lot of stick.

Stella McCartney36:04

She wasn't conventional. She wasn't one of those wives.

Stella McCartney36:08

of one of those guys for people.

Stella McCartney36:10

And she was comfortable in her own skin.

Presenter36:14

Did she talk to you about the stick she got?

Stella McCartney36:16

You could tell that it upset her. I think it's not human to to be told those things and not be upset.

Stella McCartney36:23

But I think she had enough love in her life with her family, you know, with us kids and dad and there was enough love there.

Stella McCartney36:31

to replace any kind of discomfort.

Presenter36:34

Tell me about the next piece of music then. What are we going to hear?

Stella McCartney36:37

This is a Beach Boy song. I remember listening to it. We're in my dad's car, me, my mum and my siblings, and um he put this on, he had this new sound system, it was a very sort of 90s moment where they had like these amazing speakers and the the car had been completely like decked out. And he talked about the influence of pet sounds.

Stella McCartney36:58

for him as a musician and um

Stella McCartney37:00

And I remember my mum getting really emotional during this song,'cause it's just an incredible song and the lyrics are are just huge. And then I lost my mum and the words just became really um just they meant a lot more.

Speaker 437:19

I may not always love you

Speaker 437:23

But long as there are stars above you

Speaker 437:27

You never need to doubt it.

Speaker 437:31

I'll make you so sure about it

Speaker 437:35

God only knows what I'd be without you

Speaker 437:44

If you should ever leave me

Speaker 437:47

Oh life is too good, believe me.

Presenter37:52

That was The Beach Boys, and God Only Knows. And during that, Stella McCartney, you were saying that you had the pleasure of listening to Brian Wilson play that just for you. I had a.

Stella McCartney37:59

I had a party at um this incredible record store in LA called Amoeba Records, and um it was just a great night, actually. We had George's son Danny played and Pink played and um

Stella McCartney38:14

Johnny Depp and Marilyn Manson played, but the highlight was Brian played, and I got to hear that song sung right in front of me from his own lips and it was a bit of a moment, I have to say. It's the first time I've cried at one of my own parties.

Presenter38:33

Publicly. Um you're very close to all your siblings. Uh your sister Mary, of course, is an acclaimed photographer, and y you once said that between her and me, we make up one hundred percent of our mum.

Presenter38:44

That's a really interesting quote. Can you tell me more about that and what you meant when you said it?

Stella McCartney38:50

I just think that, you know, you lose

Stella McCartney38:52

A parent, and you feel you've lost half of you, and then

Stella McCartney38:58

You know, then you can look to your left and you can see your siblings and you can see your dad on your right and you can figure out the maths on it and you sort of think it's okay. There's a hundred percent is still here.

Presenter39:10

Yeah.

Stella McCartney39:11

Yeah.

Presenter39:11

You married Alastair Willis in two thousand three. It was on the Isle of Bute, and you now have four children together. He works in the fashion industry too. He runs a big fashion brand. What's the hardest thing about doing your job, doing his job, and having four kids? Because that could all end up on the floor in a bit of a pile.

Stella McCartney39:33

You know, I think the hardest thing is switching off leaving the work out of the building when we're with our family. Can you do that? Yeah, we make sure we do it. It's not effortless.

Presenter39:42

Yeah.

Stella McCartney39:45

And I think we both really love what we do. And it's creative. We're allowed to be creative so that process comes into the creative sort of side of life.

Stella McCartney39:55

In parenting as well.

Presenter39:57

And your kids are growing up, I mean, very much as you did. You know, they are the kids of your household name now. Oh, I wouldn't go that far.

Presenter40:06

Well, I'll tell you one thing. I've only met your father once, but I remember very clearly what he said to me. He said, Now when I meet people, they say, Oh, you're Stella's dad

Presenter40:15

That's his way. Because no, I don't think it was actually. I mean, he didn't look entirely delighted about it, I have to say.

Stella McCartney40:16

Because just get

Presenter40:21

So your kids are the kids of Stella McCartney, the woman who's got the shops. Do you talk to them about negotiating why it is that people might want to know them?

Stella McCartney40:30

I don't actually. I think we just get on with it. It's something they're aware of. I think they're very aware that when they open up, um

Stella McCartney40:37

their wardrobe that their mum's name is in in the majority of their clothing.

Stella McCartney40:41

You know, I think they're navigating their way through it in the way that I did. I do say to them, Look, if anyone knows how it feels, I do. You know, I've I've had it with bells on. So but I d it's not really part of the the equation yet. We just get on with it. They don't it's it's not something we really talk about.

Presenter40:58

Tell me about your seventh choice then. What are we going to hear next, Ella McCartney?

Stella McCartney41:01

Oh, my next one is by Louis Armstrong.

Stella McCartney41:06

When we got married we obviously had to do our first dance like most people do and strangely it was my husband that suggested that we took dance lessons and we did an actual dance for our our um first dance. And we didn't tell a soul. There was a choreography made specially for us to this song and so we came down after we got married and it was you know the first dance moment.

Stella McCartney41:31

And we did this dance with lifts. It was sort of a whole sort of Ginger Rogers Fred Esther moment. And the looks on our guests' faces was just priceless. You know, every mouth was open. Everyone's like, What the hell is going on? So this is our song.

Speaker 341:47

Give me a kiss to pill a dream on

Speaker 341:51

And my imagination will thrive upon that kiss Sweetheart, I ask no more than this A kiss the bell a dream on

Speaker 342:09

Give me a kiss before you leave me And my imagination will feed my hungry heart Leave me one thing before we part

Presenter42:24

Louis Armstrong A Kiss to Build a Dream On. Can you still remember the steps still on my carton?

Stella McCartney42:29

It was funny, I was finding the right version of this last night and um I tried to have a dance with with my lovely husband and we'd both slightly forgotten them sadly. But it's my mission to remember them, don't you worry.

Presenter42:42

And what about the ethics? I mean, you've talked about not using plastics and using biodegradable things and things that have a very light carbon footprint. But what about, you know, at the very top end, I was having a look online last night and I went to see what the most expensive thing I, if I were of a mind to, that one might buy of Stella McCartney. There was a dress there for 3,500 quid. And you bought it, I presume? Sadly, they didn't have it my size, Stella.

Stella McCartney43:06

Yeah.

Presenter43:08

What do you think about the morals of that, though? Isn't that fine for somebody to be

Stella McCartney43:09

Is that fine for some

Stella McCartney43:11

Yeah, I mean look at some of my competitors and that's probably fairly well priced. I mean the reality is I've always struggled with expensive clothes and yet I make to some extent fairly expensive clothes. I have I do struggle with that concept but I work really hard to have a lot of products that I think are available on a on you know on a better price point. I have things that I think are very well priced.

Stella McCartney43:38

But you know, I also really struggle with fast fashion and fabrics that aren't beautiful, that don't use the best mills in Italy and in Japan and in England. You know, I I think you have to also keep

Stella McCartney43:52

those crafts alive, and I feel so lucky to be able to work with those people. You know, I don't think that good things should come really, really cheap.

Stella McCartney44:02

In order to make something that will last you a lifetime, that you can give to your daughters, that they can give to their daughters. I'm in that business, you know, and I think that is luxury.

Presenter44:12

Do you own, and indeed do you wear, anything of your mother's?

Stella McCartney44:17

Yeah, I d I'm my mum's wardrobe and my dad's wardrobe has been a massive influence to to everything that I do. And I am so lucky that my mum and dad kept a lot of their clothes. I went to um to Olivia Harrison's house a couple of months ago to look at George's old clothes for research for menswear.

Stella McCartney44:36

And, you know, he had they they she had a good amount, but she didn't have as much as my mum and dad. I'm really lucky they they kept a lot of stuff. And I do. I wear some of my mum's old dresses. She wore a lot of vintage clothes.

Stella McCartney44:48

And I used to buy a lot of vintage clothes when I was at college. So our stuff is fairly, you know, I think there's a big influence, there's a lot of similarities.

Presenter44:55

As you know, I'm going to cast you away very shortly to this island. I'm wondering, are you one of those peop I mean, could you sort of weave a a skirt out of palm fronds, and could you make sort of shoes out of coconut shells?

Stella McCartney44:58

Yeah.

Stella McCartney45:05

Absolutely. Could you? Absolutely. I'm going to do that today when I go back to the office.

Presenter45:11

For you, lady. Right, tell me about your next choice then. What's your very final disc? What are we gonna do?

Stella McCartney45:15

But we got a fake leather made out of um pineapple, you know.

Presenter45:18

I couldn't know.

Stella McCartney45:20

Now I realized when I looked at my songs, they're all quite sort of heavy and and slow. So I tried to this one is a bit more relevant to the now. I played this at the end of my last fashion show in Paris a couple of months ago.

Stella McCartney45:31

And um I played it because I'm I grew up a lot with um George Michaels' music and I thought he was great and I loved him and I wanted to celebrate him and his life.

Stella McCartney45:45

And I also feel like fashion sometimes doesn't have enough love in it and enough lightness in it. And I really want to say that in my fashion. I want people to feel the love and have some faith. So I played this song at my last show. Blanca Lee did the choreography and I had all of my models just come in and sing.

Speaker 446:07

Is my part of Akathawa?

Speaker 446:11

Oh, when that love comes down with a divorce on what it takes to stronger baby, but I've shown

Speaker 446:20

Cause I gotta have

Speaker 446:31

Baby

Speaker 446:34

I know you're asking me to stay Say please please please don't go away They say I'm giving you the blues

Presenter46:40

That was George Michael and Faith. Do you have to dance down the runway at the end of a show? Are you sort of forced to do that? Or do you saunter coolly?

Stella McCartney46:46

It is the worst moment of every one of my shows. I'm luckily not forced to do anything and I come out apologetically And I run off as quick as I can.

Presenter46:57

It's time then for me to give you the books. As you know, Every Castaway gets the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare and they get to take another book along.

Stella McCartney47:06

What's your book going to be? I've struggled with the book, I'm not going to lie. But the book I chose in the end was a book that my dad wrote.

Stella McCartney47:13

called Japanese Jailbird, and it's a book that he gave only to his children.

Stella McCartney47:20

One of which I am.

Stella McCartney47:24

I I find that in itself very beautiful, and I just think it makes me

Stella McCartney47:30

Remember Family, It Would Make Me Also Remember Freedom. It's a book written about him going to jail in Japan.

Stella McCartney47:38

I think, you know, look, if I'm on an island alone

Stella McCartney47:41

I need to not miss everybody too much and I think missing my babies and my husband and I think this book would make me remember family and freedom.

Presenter47:50

Okay. Well, that is certainly your book then. A luxury too. And I think it may be sitting there in front of you. It is. Listen, do you want to hear the jangle? I do.

Stella McCartney48:00

God f

Presenter48:00

Tell me what that is.

Stella McCartney48:00

Tell me what that is. This is a charm bracelet that my husband gave to me many years ago when we got engaged actually. And again, it's something that for me, every single charm on it is a memory and a moment in our relationship together. There's a horse on there, my horse, that he gave me as my wedding present. There's four little stalks carrying four little bundles, which are our babies. There's a button on there, a Stella McCartney button, which I think is really beautiful because he gave it to me as sort of to recognize me and my achievements, which is rare when you're, you know, when you're a mum and a wife, you can forget that stuff. And so that's precious to me. And there's just it's every single thing on there is something I can reflect on with happiness. Well, that is certainly your luxury then. I'm going to ask you which. And it's gold so I can melt it down if some like pirate ship comes and I can get off the island real quick and you know.

Presenter48:56

Don't spoil them all off.

Presenter49:01

Which one of these eight would you pick if you had to pick just one?

Stella McCartney49:04

Oh my goodness, I think I have to choose Blackbird. Ah oh God only knows. No!

Stella McCartney49:11

Can't I give you that three thousand pound dress and choose two?

Stella McCartney49:14

Just the one still on the cup. I think this is really good.

Presenter49:16

This is really awesome.

Presenter49:18

At standards, you know.

Stella McCartney49:19

Ah, I'm gonna do God Only Knows because it reminds me of everyone.

Stella McCartney49:23

that I love.

Presenter49:24

Okay, it's yours. Stella McCartney, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Stella McCartney49:29

Thank you for having me. I feel really honoured. I feel like it's an achievement to be here.

Presenter50:19

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.

Stella McCartney50:52

This is the B B C.