Pinky Lilani

Pinky Lilani0:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:03

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:14

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:39

My castaway this week is the businesswoman Pinky Lilani. She grew up surrounded by people and food, and it's proved a lifelong recipe for success, with her well placed position on power lists and networking forums giving a flavour of her dynamism and flair. Born and brought up amid privilege and luxury in India, when she married she swapped Calcutta for Croydon, and left behind not just her family, but the help, too, and so she had to learn how to cook.

Presenter1:07

Her working life outside the home began by teaching her recipes in night classes, progressed to advising big food companies on how to create authentic Indian pickles and sauces, and culminated in her setting up the Asian Women of Achievement Awards. These days, in her own kitchen over Jeera chicken and parathas, she holds team-building workshops, believing the food we prepare and share together can help foster a more cohesive world. She says.

Presenter1:34

I cook from the heart. Actually, I do everything from the heart. So, Pinkie Lilani, welcome. What's your signature dish?

Pinky Lilani1:41

I think it is, um, spicy bombay potatoes because I make that more often than anything else. Because I travel with my wok and make spicy bombay potatoes.

Presenter1:49

You travel with your wallet.

Pinky Lilani1:51

I actually take it everywhere and um it's great fun. It's a great way of getting people involved in what you're doing and enjoying your food and what you bring to the table. And if anything goes wrong, I just add lots more coriander and it's actually safe the dish. So it's no, it's not intimidating at all.

Presenter2:08

You once said that the positive energy from the tips of our fingers transfers to the food. It's no good cooking in a bad mood because it will show. Now, I think that's a charming thing to think, but I'm not sure it's entirely true. I mean, some of our very best chefs seem to be constantly grumpy and people still enjoy their food. Do you really believe that's true?

Pinky Lilani2:25

I do. I think, you know, when you whenever I cook in a bad mood, my food never tastes good.

Pinky Lilani2:30

So for me it works really. I think it really is important. I think mothers cook really well. So a lot of children will say my mother cooks really well and because she's cooked from the heart.

Presenter2:40

Tell me about your first piece of music then. What what are we going to hear now, and and tell me the reason that you've chosen it?

Pinky Lilani2:45

I've chosen Over the Rainbow, and that's because I grew up in Calcutta, where my father had a wonderful voice, and we would go on drives. That was the way we entertained ourselves. We'd go on a drive, and he would love singing. And the songs he really sang were things like Kesara Sara and Somewhere Over the Rainbow. And I always loved it. It always reminded me of him. And I remember also the first time that I sat next to Dame Vera Lynn in London. I was so excited to be sitting next to her. And because my dad also liked White Cliffs of Dover, I kind of got all mixed up and told her, Oh, I love your song, especially Somewhere Over the Rainbow. And she kind of looked at me very benignly and said, I think you found that actually it was sung by Judy Carlin. So I've chosen that because my father.

Speaker 43:34

Uh

Speaker 43:35

Where over the rainbow

Pinky Lilani3:44

Yeah.

Speaker 43:50

There's a land that I heard of once.

Speaker 44:01

In a lullaby.

Presenter4:05

Judy Garland singing Over the Rainbow. At Pinky Lilani, you set up the Asian Women of Achievement Awards back in 1999.

Presenter4:12

Over the past seventeen years, what changes have you seen in the type of professions that are represented in that gathering each year?

Pinky Lilani4:20

I think we've seen a huge amount of change. We've got women now in property and construction, in technology. In the beginning we just had women who were from the charity sector, very much lawyers maybe, or had their own small businesses. But there's been a huge shift for the kind of women we're getting now.

Presenter4:38

I'm sure you will have paid attention to the recent report by MPs that said that Muslim women are the most economically disadvantaged group in British society, and that those looking for a job are three times more likely to be unemployed than other women looking for a job.

Presenter4:55

Why do you think that is?

Pinky Lilani4:57

I think Muslim women are fairly insular in the sense that their parents are very protective. A lot of them don't really want them to go out and work. They don't encourage them to. I think they don't have enough role models and I think that's so important because I think your aspirations change when you see someone that you want to be like. I think Muslim women are really held back by their families, by people who really don't want them to leave their culture and do something different.

Presenter5:25

But in the case of women who are actually out seeking a job, and that was particularly the figure there that I chose surely the rest of us, if you like, have to bear responsibility for maybe how we see people when they walk through the door, what it is we see.

Pinky Lilani5:39

I've actually seen how Muslim women have changed. Last year in the Asian Women of Achievement Award, three of our winners were actually Muslim women. And they've broken a lot of ground. They're actually making a lot of ripples out there.

Presenter5:52

In your years of working behind the scenes as you do and watching particularly successful women from all different walks of life.

Presenter5:59

Have you noticed a key common attribute? Do you when you think yes, of course, mm she was going to be like that. If if you do, what is it?

Pinky Lilani6:07

So many of them are so collaborative. They really want to make a difference. They want to change the landscape. And I think for the women I meet, there's so much of kindness. I find that's been a huge factor in their success.

Presenter6:21

Let's have some more music, Pinky Lilani. We're going to listen to your second disc of the day. Just tell me a little bit about this and why it's on your list.

Pinky Lilani6:28

I've chosen Strangers in the Night because when we were growing up in India, Frank Sinatra was obviously huge at that time. And we'd very often go into restaurants. You know, that was the one outing we had where we'd go. You didn't go that often because most people ate at home and invited you to their home. So going to a restaurant was really important. And they used to have a crooner there, and we used to like to go when the crooner was there. And Strangers in the Night was one of my most favourite numbers whenever we went. And also, you were allowed to dance sometimes. And so therefore, this was really quite a nice number to get up and dance to with someone.

Speaker 37:02

Strangers in the night

Speaker 37:05

Exchanging glances, wandering in the night.

Speaker 37:11

What were the chances we'd be sharing love?

Speaker 37:16

Before the night was through

Speaker 37:24

Something in your eyes was so inviting.

Presenter7:30

That was Frank Sinatra and Strangers in the Night. So, Pinky Lilana, you were born in Calcutta in the mid nineteen fifties to a wealthy Muslim family. How important was religion in your upbringing?

Pinky Lilani7:43

I think religion was very much part of our lives. Um it wasn't something that we went to the mosque every day, but it was very much central to our lives the way we led our lives about and I was a Muslim, so it was very much about compassion, about being good to those less fortunate than us.

Presenter8:00

Pinky is a great name, but it doesn't sound traditionally Indian. Where where does the name Pinky come from?

Pinky Lilani8:05

Actually it's my nickname. It's a very common nickname in India. My real name is Nusrath, which is a Persian name which means victory. Everybody started calling me Pinky. Because? Because I was slightly, I guess, fairer and pinker than the general population, so Pinky kind of stuck.

Presenter8:20

Ugly

Presenter8:22

And you went to a Roman Catholic school in Calcutta, how come?

Pinky Lilani8:26

Well, that was the best school in Calcutta. It was run by the Loretto nuns and my mother had been there too. So very much a lot of Muslim people and, you know, sent their children to Catholic school.

Presenter8:38

And how did that actually work? I mean, if you say b you know, being Muslim was an important part of the family identity and yet you're at a Catholic school in the nineteen sixties, I imagine the rules, regulations were pretty uncompromising in terms of its adhesion to the Catholic values.

Pinky Lilani8:53

Most of the people actually were not Catholics. There were six Catholics in our class, and so most of them were Hindus, and there were some Muslims. So really, it was a secular school in many ways, but of the nuns were there. And we had to go to mass in the first, you know, five years when I was there. After that, they kind of did away with that. You didn't have to go if you weren't a Catholic. But it was very much the kind of ethos that my parents wanted us to have.

Presenter9:17

Tell me a bit more about your parents then. They had had a very grand society wedding when they got together. I mean, the Aga Khan had been at their wedding. Do you know much about it? Do you see the pictures?

Pinky Lilani9:25

Well, the wedding was actually held in the Nizam of Hyderabad's palace in Calcutta. And ca weddings in India are always huge. I mean, you invite everyone to come. So even now, when you go to a wedding in India, a thousand people is the norm. So that time, you know, it was really, really big. It was a big wedding. The Aga Khan and his wife came along to it. My grandfather used to be the sheriff of Calcutta. He was the port commissioner. He was a very well known person. It was a very, very grand wedding. And my mother, I remember her saying the kind of gifts they got. That time everybody brought you boxed gifts. Nowadays people tell you don't bring unboxed gifts. But in fact, she said it took years for them to actually give them away. Years. And what were some of the grandest gifts? I remember these wonderful silver, absolutely pure silver pieces of art that came to them. And she said they also got something like a hundred lemonade sets.

Presenter10:20

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Pinky Lilani10:21

I've chosen Lagja Gale Sefir, which is by Latham Mangeshkar, who I think is often known as the Nightingale of India. And this song is particularly a favourite of ours because it's very romantic and sad, because it's all about lovers who are together and embracing for perhaps the last time and don't know when they'll meet again. But every time I've played it, my sons who actually don't know any Hindi really love the melody, and it's really for them that I've chosen this number.

Speaker 411:10

Mula haulaho Lovely John Dale E pil khasira

Presenter11:26

That was Leta Mangeshkar singing, Well, what's the Hindi pronunciation? And I will give the English translation of it.

Pinky Lilani11:31

Um Lagja Galesi fir.

Presenter11:33

Which means sort of come and embrace me. Yes, absolutely. So Pinky Lilani, the man who cooked for your parents, whose his name was Hassan. Yes. You've described him in books as the the best cook in Calcutta. What was he like?

Pinky Lilani11:34

Yeah.

Pinky Lilani11:39

Yeah.

Pinky Lilani11:44

He was an amazing person because he was dressed very humble, but at the same time really wanted everything right. So he had a status in the you know hierarchy of staff because he was the top there and everybody else was below him.

Presenter11:58

And as a little child were you allowed into his kitchen?

Pinky Lilani12:02

He didn't like us being there too much, so I would love to go in and if the food was ready, I'd say, Can I taste it? He never allowed us to taste it because he felt that if he did that, it takes away something from the dish, so he would only serve it to us when it was totally ready. So I actually over the years I kind of, you know, used to curry favours with him, and then he'd let me taste a little bit.

Presenter12:22

What were his best dishes? What do you remember? His biryani.

Pinky Lilani12:25

His biryani was absolutely legendary. My mother, who's eighty eight, was telling me just yesterday how somebody rang her up from Calcutta and was telling her that it was the best biryani she has ever eaten. So she he still remembered. And was he very protect?

Pinky Lilani12:40

So he would never share them. I mean, he wouldn't let you into the kitchen. I think he felt sorry for me when he learned that I was here trying to cook. And he let me into the kitchen to actually watch him make some food.

Presenter12:52

And your mother was, as it would have been characterized back in those days, sounds a bit old-fashioned now, a sort of accomplished hostess.

Pinky Lilani12:59

She was very social. She loved having people over. Whoever came at whatever time would be welcome given something to eat.

Presenter13:07

What were the components of having and hostessing a very grand and brilliant evening at your parents' house?

Pinky Lilani13:14

We didn't serve alcohol in our house, so there was no way that that was going to be there. But it was really about getting the food right. And my mother set the best table, so she had this amazing linen and silver that she really used. She loved using her good dishes all the time.

Presenter13:31

And what was your parents' expectation for you, their daughter, and what was your expectation for yourself as you were growing up into a late teenage years?

Pinky Lilani13:40

I think they've just wanted me to marry a nice man. That was it. I don't think they had any expectations for me to work and um they didn't really want me to be too clever and go out and do some work.

Presenter13:50

You had studied educational psychology, then you'd done some post-grad studies in Bombay.

Presenter13:56

What did you want?

Pinky Lilani13:57

To be very honest, I didn't have any huge aspirations. I thought I'd be I would like to work a little bit, but I would like to be like my mother and be able to have people over and go to the club and have a good social life.

Presenter14:09

You know, when I look at your C V, you were being well educated as a young woman. Was there a sense in which

Presenter14:15

They wanted you to be

Presenter14:17

So educated, but not much further.

Pinky Lilani14:19

I think everybody, all the people I knew, had done their degrees. So when I came here and found people didn't have a degree, which was as was normal, I mean, I guess you studied, then you went on to college. And then most of the people I knew got married. All my cousins just got married. So I don't think there were aspirations in our family for women to go and work.

Presenter14:38

Let's have some more music, Pinky Lilani. Um tell me about your next one. What's this?

Pinky Lilani14:42

Simon and Garfunkel were a huge favorite of all of us when we were growing up and uh we used to hear them on our little gram phone. And I've chosen the Sound of Silence because at that time um the graduate had also come out, so it was one of our favorite numbers.

Speaker 414:58

Hello darkness my old friend

Speaker 415:02

I've come to talk with you again.

Speaker 415:07

Because a vision softly creeping

Speaker 415:11

Left its seeds while I was sleeping

Speaker 415:16

And a vision.

Speaker 415:18

That was planted in my brain.

Speaker 415:23

Still remains.

Speaker 415:26

Within the sound.

Presenter15:29

Plus

Speaker 415:29

Fine.

Presenter15:32

That was Simon and Garfunkel and The Sound of Silence. Uh Pinkie Lilani, you've been married now for about thirty-eight years, is that long? Thirty-nine years. Thirty-nine. How did you meet your husband?

Pinky Lilani15:38

39 years.

Pinky Lilani15:41

I met him in Bombay. I was actually visiting Bombay and um.

Pinky Lilani15:45

My mother was quite keen that I should get married. They'd like me to marry a good Muslim boy. And this was semi-arranged in a way because he happened to be in Bombay from London with his family. And he'd been married before, and his mother was quite keen. He was divorced, and she wanted him to marry a good Muslim girl. And so my mother knew his cousin, who said, Why don't they meet? And so we actually met for tea with everyone there. And I said, Oh, well, he's nice, but that was about it. And they said, Would you like to marry him? You can't keep going out to make up your mind. After one meeting. After one meeting, they kind of ask you whether you really want to get married to him. And I said, Could I meet him again? And they said, But all right, but you know, you can't do it more than that. So I went out again and wasn't 100% sure. And then decided, No, yes, I will go for it.

Presenter16:35

To my modern Western ears, of course that sounds terrifying.

Pinky Lilani16:40

I wasn't actually. I mean, I I think that most of the people I knew had had arranged marriages, so I wasn't that worried about it.

Presenter16:44

Yeah.

Presenter16:46

And what did you see in him on third time meeting that you thought, I think I can make this work?

Pinky Lilani16:51

Well, I thought he was so different to all the men I knew in India. He had a real free spirit about him, and he seemed to be doing some of the things that I found very exciting. Living in India I'd never been abroad, and suddenly he sounded really interesting living in London. He was a chartered accountant.

Presenter17:07

Would you have had any say at the time if you had felt unhappy, as you got further, maybe closer to the wedding itself, or after you'd been married, if you'd felt unhappy if if you had said to your parents

Pinky Lilani17:18

I've made a mistake. Would they have listened? I think they would have definitely listened. They wouldn't have been very happy, but I think they would have listened. So you got married within how many weeks? Three weeks of actually meeting him.

Presenter17:28

And when you married your husband, you travelled with him to to Britain, you left this Indian knife behind. What were your first impressions of it was nineteen seventy eight, right about then that you travelled. What were your first impressions of Britain?

Pinky Lilani17:38

And so

Pinky Lilani17:40

Oh, I loved coming here. It was so exciting. It was what I'd seen in all our books. We were very, you know, familiar with British culture and all that happens here. And I was really, really excited. And the most exciting thing for me was like we didn't really have hamburgers in India, so I wanted to go to Wimpy to have some Wimpy, which was very exciting. And I cringe when I think of that, but you know, no, I was really happy.

Presenter18:03

Is it true that the one book that you brought with you was Constance Spry's Flower Arranging?

Pinky Lilani18:09

Mother used to do a course on Constant Fry and we really always loved the flours that she did. And so I brought that book along with me. And it was very helpful for a few years.

Presenter18:20

And were you ready for British weather? I mean, did you have a good sort of big parka coat and a scarf and a bobble hat and all that stuff?

Pinky Lilani18:25

So I had nothing. I had to go and buy a coat and that was the first thing we did. And I remember I used to feel so cold that when I'd come inside the house, and I was living at that time for the first three weeks with my in laws, I'd keep my coat on. But I was just so cold all the time.

Presenter18:42

Some more music now, Pinky Lilani. Um tell me about your fifth.

Pinky Lilani18:45

I've chosen Lovey and Rose because it was one of the songs we used to hear constantly in in India. Whenever wherever you went, it was just the instrumental that we would hear when you went into the cinemas and so many places. It was very popular when you went to big events too. But I've chosen Edith Piaft because when I first came to England, I'd never heard of Edith Piaf. And my husband loved the number General Regretrière, and he said he sang it when he divorced his wife. And he can't really sing very well, but he said that was one of their favourite. And then I actually became very interested in her and did a lot of research on her. And so I've chosen her number because I think she sings so beautifully.

Presenter19:13

And then he's

Speaker 419:34

Desiu for designers, a rirque celebrity, and the soul.

Speaker 419:43

De l'Omoquel, la Paul here.

Presenter20:00

La Vian rose, Edith Piaf, singing there. And you have said that there were three things in those early weeks and months and maybe even years that people would say to you when you had arrived in Britain. What were the three things that you would constantly be asked?

Pinky Lilani20:13

They would tell me, Oh, you speak really good English, you know, but you've only been in England three weeks. But I I actually Engl English was my first language. And the other questions I used to often be asked was that you walked three steps behind your husband, being a good Mr. Mohmann. I actually say, No, I walk ten steps behind him, so he doesn't know what I'm getting up to. And I think that's increased with the years. And the other thing is, you know, people would always ask you if you could cook. And I absolutely really didn't know how to cook. And I think the first dishes I did were so awful. How did you learn to cook? Every time I went back to India, I would go into the kitchen and our cook would show me some more dishes and I would see how he did them. And he would share his recipes with you. He did. And he'd tell me that I shouldn't. There's one particular recipe he does which I just love, which is where you give a barbecue flavour to chicken by heating a charcoal on the cooker and then putting it into the chicken and pouring some oil and this makes it all smoke. So you cover it up and that smoke goes into the chicken. Do you put the charcoal inside the chicken or next to the chicken? No, just on top of the chicken. So if you have chicken pieces you just put it on top and you pour this oil and it really smokes when you put the oil on this hot charcoal and it infuses the flavour and it's a very old kind of technique and he asked me not to ever share it and I actually did it on television. Well you've just done it now haven't you? Absolutely. I I think you know he would be turning in disgrace but I think he'd be really happy because it's an amazing party trick.

Presenter21:43

And word got around, and you were approached locally to start teaching people how to cook Indian food at evening classes. That was at a local sort of adult education centre. And then you went on to be subsequently a consultant for big food companies like Sharwoods and so on. At the time, when you went in to try the recipes that were being made by these Western-based companies, how did it taste?

Pinky Lilani22:08

They didn't taste good at all. They had too many tomatoes and and kind of garlic, too much of stuff that wasn't really authentic. And for me, you know, it was how do I tell them how to do it really authentically? So I told one group that will you come to my house to learn how to do it with your clients and they said, Clients never come into people's house, you have to cook the food and bring it and teach it. And I actually convinced them to come. And that was the start of this whole era of actually getting people in to come and learn how to cook.

Presenter22:39

You have now got twenty percent of your hearing. You wear um hearing aids. That's a significant problem to have. You're a communicator by nature. Has it ever got in the way?

Pinky Lilani22:50

It has. But I tell people this up front because I think sometimes when somebody asks me a question I give a totally doo-ally answer. And so I remember the time when somebody asked me, you know, how long does it take you to make a curry? and I heard, How long have you been in the country? and I said thirty-seven years. And she said, Well, I'm not coming to your house for dinner. And I think it's, you know, it's it's very difficult and I find, you know, large gatherings when everybody's speaking and sometimes I'll ask a question that's just been asked. And that's why I tell people up front really, because otherwise it's very difficult.

Presenter23:22

Let's have some more of your music, Pinky Lilani. We are on your sixth choice of the day.

Pinky Lilani23:27

Okay, I've chosen Ave Maria here because my youngest son, Richard, it sings really well and that's always been a huge surprise for us because we sing so badly we can't sing. And he was actually chief chorister at his prep school and I still remember going to the concerts and there was this little Indian boy singing Ave Maria and I was like singing this is amazing and I am a great fan of Pavarotti so I thought I would choose Pavarotti singing Ave Maria.

Speaker 424:10

Uh

Speaker 424:15

So rigram sevadre.

Speaker 424:26

Ah, a collionor, of my war sudden.

Presenter24:52

Ave Maria, composed by Schubert, sung there by Luciano Pavarotti, with the National Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Kurt Adler. We spoke a little bit about uh networking and the networking forums that you have hosted. There's a view among some people that there might be something

Presenter25:09

Inherently distasteful about attending an event, a meeting, where you are talking to other people and making yourselves known to other people simply for the sole advantage of advancement?

Pinky Lilani25:22

No, no, we

Presenter25:22

What would you say to doubt?

Pinky Lilani25:23

No, I think, you know, for me networking is about

Pinky Lilani25:26

Meeting people that are interesting, that you're curious about. I have an inherent curiosity about people, so I talk to people on trains and buses and wherever I go to find out more about them. If you go with the idea that I want to get ten cards and I'm going to get some business, it doesn't work that way. People can suss that out a mile list because you really just want to find out, have a relationship, and if anything comes, fine. Will you have a word with people if you see them handing out their business card? Well, I kind of don't encourage them to do that because I still remember the time when this woman was handing out her cards to everyone and telling people, Can you give me your card? And this woman was like looking on, not very happy, and so when this lady asked her, Here's my card, can you give me your card? she turned over the card and she wrote her name on it and gave it back.

Pinky Lilani26:12

And I think, you know, that's what people don't like, people who are just out there to see what can I get from this.

Presenter26:17

Let's have some more music, Pinkie Lilani. It's time for your seventh. What are we going to hear?

Pinky Lilani26:22

I've chosen As Time Goes By from Casablanca because that was such a big favourite of ours when we were growing up in India. We didn't get movies very quickly when we lived in Calcutta, and so the old movies kept coming back, and um Casablanca was such a big favourite and As Time Goes By I think is so timeless, so I've chosen Julie Wilson singing it.

Speaker 426:45

You must remember this.

Speaker 426:49

A kiss is just a kiss.

Speaker 426:52

A sigh is just a sigh.

Speaker 426:57

The fundamental things apply as time goes by

Speaker 427:09

And when two lovers who

Speaker 427:12

They still say I love you.

Speaker 427:15

On that you can rely

Speaker 427:20

No matter what the future brings as

Presenter27:26

As time goes by, from the film Casablanca, sung by Dooley Wilson with Elliott Carpenter there on piano. Pinky Lilani, you've set up these networks, as we've heard about this morning, promoting collaboration recognition for women in the working world and in business. But you're on record as saying that you don't believe in positive discrimination quotas for women at senior levels. Why is that?

Pinky Lilani27:49

I think, you know, people resent it if you're there because you're part of a quota. And I think, yeah, people are doing it, but there's so many people who should be there because they're good. So I don't really believe that you're helping the cause by having quotas. And many

Presenter28:03

Women who work.

Presenter28:06

Inevitably, you know, they they don't consider themselves to have a career. They go out and they do a job and they get paid for it because they have to go out and do a job. How much do you think the sort of upper strata of recognition and award ceremonies and people patting each other on the back and having a few glasses of champagne actually affects most women who are just going out there and grinding through it every day?

Pinky Lilani28:30

I think, you know, the awards that we run are really for people who are part of the mainstream. We're not giving it to people who are already up there. So the Women of the Future, which is my real flagship programme just now, is about emerging leaders, about recognizing women under thirty-five. And for them, it's really important.

Presenter28:48

What advice do you give these young women when they are, you know, under thirty-five? You know, they're young, they're starting out, they're full of energy and ambition.

Pinky Lilani28:57

What do you say to them? For me it's about kindness. The DNF of all our programmes is about kindness and collaboration, because we can do nothing on our own. And all these people, they're so talented. They're supremely clever. But they have huge amount of energy. And I want them to collaborate, because that's where the real dance takes place. It sounds delightful, but it sounds wide-eyed and innocent. I don't think so. I actually think it's it's um tool that really works. Everything that all the big companies who are actually supporting us is because of the good things we do and the good things they're doing. So I really think it's a very powerful tool. It's nearly time.

Presenter29:35

For you, Pinky, to be cast away all on your own. What's going to sustain you, I wonder?

Pinky Lilani29:41

Oh, that's going to be really hard for me because I just love people. So I think it's going to be very hard to be sustained in my own. I mean, do you spend much time alone?

Presenter29:44

But I

Pinky Lilani29:49

I do spend time on my own because I love walking. So I think that's an important time. It's a great time for me to I I think, you know, to reflect on life and where I want to go and the people who mean a lot to me. I think really what I've learned from them. I think again being Islam being the centre of what I do is again that whole spirit of where where am I going will be very important for me to think about.

Presenter30:15

Tell me about your final piece of music. What are we going to hear now?

Pinky Lilani30:18

My final piece is Conte Partiro. Now um that is um actually sung by Bocelli, but it always reminds me of the time when we go to Las Vegas. My husband loves going to Las Vegas.

Presenter30:31

See a gambler

Pinky Lilani30:32

Yes, he will gamble on anything, but he really likes blackjack and horses. So whenever we go to Las Vegas, we stay at the Bellagio, which has these wonderful musical fountains. And the first time we went, quite a few years ago, it was the musical fountains would always play with this number, and so it brings back amazing memories.

Speaker 430:56

Paratiro.

Speaker 431:01

Why is he?

Speaker 431:25

Sonna vi per mari.

Presenter31:52

Conte parti roll, Time to Say Goodbye, sung there by Andrea Bocelli. It's time, Pinky, for me to give you the books. I give all of my castaways a copy of the complete works of Shakespeare, and also usually the Bible, but they can exchange that for another religious text. Would you like to do that?

Pinky Lilani32:07

Ah, I'd like the Koran.

Presenter32:08

Of course, you may have that. And the other book you're going to take is yours. What's it going to be?

Pinky Lilani32:12

I'm going to take The Forty Rules of Love by Elif Shafarque, which is one of my favorite books. It's a book on Rumi and Sufism. And I think it's very timeless because it's got some deep philosophy in it, but at the same time it's very contemporary in some ways, and it'll be a great book to think about.

Presenter32:30

You may have that. And I do align my castaways a luxury too. What's your luxury going to be?

Pinky Lilani32:35

It's going to be Darjeeling tea. Oh. Because I love leaf tea. So every morning when I get up, the first thing I'll do is make myself a pot of Darjeeling leaf tea, so I don't use tea bags.

Presenter32:36

Oh.

Presenter32:45

Is there a special pot?

Pinky Lilani32:47

Uh yeah, it has to be something that black normally in color because you have this glass bot and I have to have my tea in a particular bone china mug because that makes it taste better.

Presenter32:57

I'm in a generous mood. I think I'll give you a tray with all of those accoutrements on it to make your tea. You have to pick just one of these discs out of the eight to save. Which will your one be?

Pinky Lilani33:01

Yeah.

Pinky Lilani33:08

It would be lovely Enbrus. It's really

Presenter33:10

It's huge.

Presenter33:13

My spirits. It's yours. Pinky Lilani. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter34:00

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter34:02

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4

Pinky Lilani34:33

This is the BBC.