Davina McCall

Davina McCall0:00

This is the BBC.

Presenter0:04

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:14

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:39

My castaway this week is Davina McCall, a queen of prime time for a long time. Her glamour, warmth, and willing are ideally suited to the small screen. Big Brother, Comic Relief, Million Pound Drop, Long Lost Family, her T V shows span the channels and the choices of millions of viewers. She stands out from the immaculately quaffed pack for her ability to talk to real people like they are.

Presenter1:03

Real people. Her sheer bloody-minded gumption's interesting, too. A couple of years back, she completed a 500-mile triathlon, raising well over two million pounds for a charity helping the disadvantaged. She herself knows that life can be tough as a little girl. She rarely saw her mother and would go on in her teens and twenties to fight drug addiction. She says.

Presenter1:25

Being famous has its downsides in the same way as not being famous has its downsides. I'm very, very grateful that I got famous after I got clean and after I was twenty five, which meant I'd worked in the real world and struggled to pay my rent. So welcome to Vena McCall, an important feature of your life.

Presenter1:43

These days is, and we get the selfies of the flat stomach. And you came bouncing in here today. You look like you've already done a workout, have you?

Davina McCall1:51

I haven't, no, it's okay. Don't worry, Kirsty. I'm not that amazing. People always say to me, Oh God, do you work out every day? Do you know, because I have a job and I've got three kids and trying to crowbar it in is really difficult. And I got up at six thirty this morning to get the kids breakfast and then came in here and I sure as hell wasn't going to wake up at five.

Presenter2:14

Well, I'm going to need a little relief to hear.

Davina McCall2:15

Yeah, you see it's the yeah, it's good.

Presenter2:17

The work that you do, and of course one of the things that you're best known for is for a decade presenting Big Brother. You know, a lot of it does scrutinize people's lives. You talk to people about the minutiae, the intimate, the difficult moments of their life.

Presenter2:30

The quid pro quo of that is, of course, you then get asked about those moments. And you've been very open about your life, but is there any part of you that feels a little bit uncomfortable with revealing yourself? Because we all have the right to a private life.

Davina McCall2:44

The thing that I

Davina McCall2:45

I have to tread really carefully with, which often I just want to blur about, is my husband and my children. And, you know, I'm the one that's famous. I'm out there. Everybody knows about me. But I do run things by Matthew. If I'm going to talk about something, we went to marriage guidance counselling and I said, I think it would be amazing if I could talk about that. But how do you feel about it? If he'd said no, I would have not talked about it.

Presenter3:08

And all of your three children have September birthdays. And I read once that, you know, Davina's children were born in September because Davina had commitments to Big Brother and it was.

Davina McCall3:11

Yes, and I read one.

Presenter3:19

This is true.

Davina McCall3:19

I love Big Brother so much, and the idea of somebody else presenting it, it was like over my dead body. So I said to Matthew, We are not trying for a baby until after December.

Davina McCall3:32

And so there we are. Three birthdays in September. Good to hear that.

Presenter3:36

Good to clear that one up. Tell me about the first one. What is it and why have you chosen it, Davina?

Davina McCall3:40

Oh, the divine comedy. Neil Hannan.

Davina McCall3:44

There's something about his phrasing and his musicality and the way he orchestrates a piece and the way that he can sing really searing love songs but use very comedic lyrics but make them sound terribly serious. He's just a genius. I love the lyrics in this song. It's quite romantic and naughty and saucy and then quite heartbreaking. And it's called Our Mutual Friend.

Speaker 44:09

No matter how I try

Speaker 44:13

I just can't get her out of my mind.

Speaker 44:19

When I sleep

Speaker 44:21

I visualize her.

Speaker 44:25

I saw her in the park.

Speaker 44:29

I met her later at the nightclub.

Speaker 44:35

Mutual friend

Speaker 44:38

Introduced us, we talked.

Presenter4:43

You in some sort of ecstasy then. I honestly, I'm in raptures. I should tell our listeners that was our mutual friend, the divine comedy. Let's talk a little about the early days then, the very early days. You were born in 1967. Yes.

Speaker 44:44

I honestly

Davina McCall4:47

So

Speaker 44:48

Uh

Davina McCall4:48

Friends

Presenter4:54

Uh your dad Andrew, your mum French Florence. Yes. Um how did your parents meet each other?

Davina McCall4:59

I think they met on a boat going between France and the UK and.

Davina McCall5:05

They both sat in the corridor, stayed up all night talking.

Davina McCall5:10

And fell in love and that was that.

Presenter5:11

Yeah.

Davina McCall5:11

Uh

Presenter5:12

You've written of her that she was eclectic, naughty, impish, funny, irreverent, and captivating. Tell me more about her.

Davina McCall5:20

She was born to Pierre and Olga, and I think they were very loving people.

Davina McCall5:26

But they were incapable of kind of loving her in a a a nurturing parental way, so they just threw money at the problem.

Presenter5:32

And throughout her life, then, and and let's concentrate on her early life when she was a young mum, she she had alcohol and drug problems and

Davina McCall5:37

Yeah.

Davina McCall5:38

Problems

Presenter5:39

How did that affect her behaviour as a mum? From what you can remember early, early.

Davina McCall5:44

My first recollection would be that she just would forget me. When I was about eight or nine, I nearly drowned. I was hit on the head in the sea by a little boat, you know. I choked and I came up. A woman saw it and waded out to me and lifted me up out of the water and just hugged me. And I remember hugging her really tight and calming down. And I remember standing on the beach thinking, Shall I go and tell Mummy? and then thinking, Well, there's no point because she won't mother me. She always kind of came first, so her feelings and her worries and her life was always more important. We always sort of worked around her.

Presenter6:21

And I suppose to any anybody who's been the offspring of an addict, that is a very, very familiar thing because they have their primary relationship and it's with their drug of choice, and it's so it's not going to be with with the kids. So when your mother and your father

Davina McCall6:27

Because they

Davina McCall6:29

friendship and it's with their drug of choice and

Presenter6:34

Divorced, it was your father who was granted custody, as people were in those days, granted custody of you.

Davina McCall6:36

Yeah.

Davina McCall6:38

Drive.

Presenter6:39

How much was explained to you about what was happening in

Davina McCall6:42

I mean nothing actually. And I knew that my mum had gone somewhere and I didn't know why she hadn't come back and I didn't know why I was living with my granny and I felt a bit guilty because I loved my granny so much but I thought I've overstayed my welcome. Like poor granny, she probably doesn't want me here anymore. But actually she loved me and she was desperate to have me there but I didn't know. So it was very confusing.

Presenter7:02

You did spend a little bit of time with her now and then.

Davina McCall7:04

Yes, I mean, in the holidays. Do you have memories from that time? Yes, I mean, it was pretty it was chaos. I mean, thank God I was my sister.

Presenter7:07

Yeah.

Davina McCall7:12

Who was born when my mum was 16. So, my mum was 15 when she got pregnant with my big sister. And she lived with her French grandparents, so my mum's parents.

Presenter7:23

So, this was really exactly the same situation repeating itself in France. Yes.

Davina McCall7:25

It's actually repeating itself. In France. Yes. And so thank God I went to stay with them when I was in France, so they were actually pretty solid.

Davina McCall7:32

But my mum would kind of come and go in in chaos. And f I mean, I don't want it to sound like I'm complaining about it because

Davina McCall7:39

I thought she was kind of brilliant, but also leg crossingly embarrassing but exciting, and she had no boundaries for me, so I could go out whenever I wanted, wear whatever I wanted, wear high heels, wear make up, do anything. I mean anything. And I thought at the time that was great, but I know I look back now and it was so destructive.

Presenter7:56

Yeah.

Davina McCall7:56

So on the

Presenter7:56

The subject of your mother leaving when you were very young and not coming back and not being present, you said.

Davina McCall7:58

Uh

Davina McCall8:00

Yeah.

Speaker 48:00

Can not be

Presenter8:02

I'm quoting directly here, you said, I don't think she found it easy.

Speaker 48:05

Mm.

Presenter8:07

I'm wondering what evidence you have for that that she didn't find it easy.

Davina McCall8:10

I haven't really got any evidence of that.

Davina McCall8:13

I just I would like to think that my mum found it difficult. Otherwise otherwise that's really depressing.

Presenter8:22

Let's have your second piece of music, Davina McColl. Tell me about this and why particularly you've chosen it.

Davina McCall8:27

Well this is

Presenter8:27

See?

Davina McCall8:28

And Ode to my dad. And he introduced me to jazz and Pippi, his mum and he are jazz fanatics, but my dad in particular loves Duke Ellington. And obviously everybody knows the Nutcracker Suite, but Duke Ellington did just the most brilliant swing big band version of it. And this is the overture.

Speaker 49:23

Mm-hmm.

Presenter9:56

That was part of the overture from the Nutcracker Suite composed by Tchaikovsky, arranged by Ellington and Strayhorn, performed there by Duke Ellington and his orchestra. Davina McCall, then, as we know, you said you went most of the time well, a lot of the time in your early childhood to live with your grandmother and grandfather. Your dad was working in London. Tell me about home life then with your grandparents.

Davina McCall10:16

So home life was amazing'cause my granny looked after her mother in law, grandma, she was just called grandma. My life in France was always pretty chaotic and mad. I really appreciated the roots that Pippi gave me.

Davina McCall10:30

And she was always cooking. I mean, it was perfect, you know, she was in the garden, she grew her own veg, she grew her own fruit.

Presenter10:35

And did you have an abiding sense as you were growing up of difference, of separateness from other people? Because if you were picked up from the school play, it would be by your grandma, not by your mother. You had a sister, but she wasn't with you. Was that something that sort of built in you incrementally as you grew up?

Davina McCall10:52

Mostly the thing that made me feel slightly apart from was the fact that I couldn't really talk about what was going on in France. I had these two lives and I in some way wanted to protect my mum because I was worried that people might not let me go back if I told them what was happening.

Presenter11:07

Oh.

Davina McCall11:07

Because I wanted to see her.

Davina McCall11:10

But at the same time I knew what was going on was pretty mad, and that if I mentioned it I might not be allowed to go back. I guess only people that are have experienced it or are experiencing it will know what I mean, but it was weird. I wanted to be with her.

Presenter11:23

Well, of course you do,'cause you're hotwired to love your parents. That's the way we're built, is to have that attachment. So that's the the deepest thing you can have. Is there a particular moment when you think

Davina McCall11:24

Duho

Presenter11:33

Wow, she really did that, she really just did that!

Davina McCall11:36

I mean, there's a lot. But um, let me think. It's etched into my mind, this electric blue floor length fur coat. And we were out once and she wasn't wearing anything underneath it and she would just flash people'cause she thought it was funny. And I was just dying inside.

Davina McCall11:51

Get guys giving her interest and her loving the interest, but me hating the interest that these men are giving her, and feeling protective, but feeling vulnerable, and needing protection myself, and not knowing where to get it, and seeing people pity me. How old are you?

Presenter12:10

For example, with the fur coat.

Davina McCall12:10

With the fur coat.

Presenter12:15

Let's have some more music to hear McCall. Um tell me about your third. What's this?

Davina McCall12:19

Sireta, I mean, nobody's really heard of her. This was the famous track, but the whole album is amazing because it was produced by the.

Davina McCall12:27

Inimitable Stevie Wonder, and he was married to Sarita, and it really reminds me of my mum, she came back to live in London after she'd split up with my dad. She met another Englishman. My sister used to come over and visit sometimes. This was her third husband. And this was the album from that time in our lives, and we danced to it together, me and my sister. But this song in particular, it's a cool car.

Speaker 312:49

This song goes out to all you fellas who think your kisses are as sweet as candy, but I ain't got you beat by a million miles. Yo, kiss is sweet.

Speaker 313:00

As sweet as candy?

Speaker 313:02

But honey, beach your kisses by a million lives

Speaker 313:07

Your kiss is sweet.

Speaker 313:10

As sweet as candy

Speaker 313:12

But honey, beat your kisses by a million miles

Speaker 413:15

I'm very happy.

Presenter13:16

Uh

Presenter13:17

That was Syrisa and your kiss is sweet. You can still do the moves to that, David Pole, still got it. You went to live with your stepmum and your dad in London when you were how old? I was just turning thirteen. And the perfect mix then for a race.

Speaker 313:20

I can't remember.

Davina McCall13:30

The perfect mix then for our reciting. Yes. Tell me what you got up to. We lived in Shepherd's Bush and I absolutely loved Shepherd's Bush. It was so different to Surrey. And I loved the mix of music suddenly opening my eyes to

Presenter13:34

And

Davina McCall13:48

Like loads of reggae. There was loads of sound systems happening out in the streets. It was so.

Davina McCall13:54

Exciting and it felt like being reborn. Unfortunately, I think I was already slightly careering off the rails when I went to go and live with my dad and my stepmum. You know, I was already smoking, I was already sort of drinking thirteen, started smoking at twelve. How did you get on in school? I was pretty smart.

Presenter14:07

He seems dreaming.

Davina McCall14:14

Back then, I'm pretty sure most of my brain cells waved goodbye in the late eighties in the rave scene. But I was a smart kid and I I got nine O levels then and I got pretty good grades. But by the time it got to my A levels, I I just got two A levels. I flunked out. I did I was doing maths. You know, I'd be up in my room and they'd think I was studying, but I wasn't studying. And I'd go round to people's houses under the guise of studying, but I wouldn't be. I'd be at my boyfriend's or I mean, I was pretty naughty. And I feel quite sorry for my kids because

Davina McCall14:49

I just know what they're going to be trying to get out to, so I'm I'm ahead of it all the time. And when you got those results, did your dad sit you down at the kitchen table and say, Oh, okay, let's what's happened here then? My dad was amazing. He just said, What do you want from life and where do you want to go?

Davina McCall15:05

He said, Because you can do anything.

Davina McCall15:07

But you just have to really want it.

Davina McCall15:09

And at the time, I was like, I don't really know, I just love music.

Davina McCall15:14

And I sort of fell into a job at Models One on the men's desk representing male models, which at nineteen years old you can imagine was just the best job ever. And I did that for a few years, but all the time I was trying to either sing or

Davina McCall15:29

or do something musical. I was running nightclubs at the weekends, which again was all about the music and live bands and

Davina McCall15:36

Clubbing

Davina McCall15:37

So everything was kind of pointing towards I was trying to either get a career in music and then MTV launched, and then that was my shining beacon. I want to work there.

Presenter15:47

Hold that thought. Tell me about this piece of music, Davina McColl.

Davina McCall15:51

Funkadelic is really from the late 70s, and it was when I started really beginning to really enjoy music. And it was the track that used to play quite a lot at the Camden Palace, which is now Coco in Camden. And I was about 14. I mean, nobody ever looked at ID. We were all drinking. It was mad. And this is Funkadelic, One Nation Under a Groove.

Speaker 416:15

Please oh no.

Speaker 416:20

So high, you can't get over it. So high, you can't get over it.

Speaker 416:28

This is a chance. This is a chance.

Speaker 416:32

Dance away.

Speaker 416:35

I'll go for constructions!

Speaker 416:39

Die.

Speaker 416:40

Damn shook!

Davina McCall16:42

Yeah.

Presenter16:42

I was one cadillic in one nation under a groove. You told me during that convenient call you were that

Davina McCall16:46

Uh Stage dancer. I was so embarrassing. But, um, also I just wore the most amazing clothes because I used to go out in next to nothing. I went out once in a body glove swimming costume and a pair of timberlands, and that was it.

Presenter16:58

You know, it's a very cool sounding teenage life and you started to do what many people do. You used drugs recreationally and thought, I can handle this and it's fun. And then of course it did what it very often does, which is the fun turns into something else. By the late teens, what was the reality of your drug use?

Davina McCall17:16

Yeah.

Davina McCall17:17

I thought I had it all under control, but it was very much sort of white knuckling.

Davina McCall17:22

Right, I'm definitely not going to do anything until Friday night. And then Friday night would turn into Thursday night just to see me through. And the weekends were getting longer and longer. But really, I got bad in my early twenties.

Davina McCall17:34

And the thing was, was that I used to look at people in my early twenties when I went out clubbing, and I started meeting a few people that were clean.

Davina McCall17:43

And I'd think, how is it that I'm so out of it, but I'm not having a good time, and yet you're not drinking or taking any drugs, and you're much happier than me. And I just couldn't quite get it. Taking drugs is like Russian roulette. Some people can take drugs and then put them down and walk away and have an adult life, never having touched them again. And some people pick up the drugs and they can't put them down, and that was me. And I'd really quite carefully stayed away from alcohol because I could see that my mother was an alcoholic. So I thought I was being quite good because I didn't really drink that much. So I'll just take a few drugs instead. I mean, what kind of common sense is that? Ridiculous.

Davina McCall18:24

So I did end up in a complete mess.

Davina McCall18:27

And when you were in a cl complete mess, what did your life look like?

Davina McCall18:31

until the last year

Davina McCall18:33

You wouldn't have known that my life was a complete mess. I mean, I had a job. I mean, I was never on time, ever. I didn't steal. I didn't inject. These are all things that made me different from other awful drug addicts over there. I'm not as bad as them, so it's okay. I'll carry on. I would have been absolutely destroyed if I thought other people thought I had a problem with drugs.

Presenter18:55

And what was the turning point?

Davina McCall18:57

When I realized that other people knew I had a problem with drugs, and my best friend Sarah.

Davina McCall19:03

Said to me, you know, you're the topic of every dinner party I go to. What an absolute mess you are. And that you're lying to me. I know you're lying to me. I know you're taking heroin. And I know, you know, so just just, I can't talk to you anymore. I can't be with I can't hang out with you anymore.

Presenter19:19

Immediately, what did you do when she said that?

Davina McCall19:20

So I was like really angry, swore at her tons, you know, what kind of a friend are you? Like, just got really attitudey, really in her face, and then left, and then just cried non-stop for about eight hours and thought, I've this is it, I've got to stop. I had nowhere to go except for to stop. So I did, and I went to a meeting that day, and that was it. But do. Yep, I went to take a bunch of flowers to my friend. I was feeling really, really terrible at that point.

Davina McCall19:53

quite sick and awful and uh I went to see her and I said, I'm really sorry, you're absolutely right, I'm a mess and I'm gonna change And I went to a meeting that night at six o'clock and out and everybody talked to me.

Davina McCall20:06

I thought they were all gonna go, oh, junky scum, get out. But they were really nice, and that was it.

Presenter20:13

Let's have your next piece of music, Davina. Tell me about this. We're going to listen to your fifth. Why have you chosen this?

Davina McCall20:18

If you talk about sort of euphoric recall about a time of my life when.

Davina McCall20:22

I was clubbing all the time, and this was the track that they would put on, and they could turn on every single light in the club, and everybody would have their hands in the air.

Davina McCall20:34

And

Davina McCall20:35

There was kind of a collective energy.

Davina McCall20:38

that went to this song that anybody that was around at the time

Davina McCall20:42

Will feel it again when they hear it. It's a weird thing, it's like a button, a switch that switches on when you hear this song. It's called Can You Feel It? I certainly can when I listen to this track. It's by Todd Terry.

Davina McCall21:26

Could you feel it?

Presenter21:29

Just about. Um that was Can You Feel It by Philippe B and Todd Terry. Many millions of people watched you in twenty fourteen do this I'm going to use the word horrific because it was.

Davina McCall21:42

It was.

Presenter21:43

It was a five hundred mile triathlon. You were going from Edinburgh to London. You were doing it for sports relief, to raise money. You raised a very significant sum, over two million quid. What possessed you to say yes?

Presenter21:56

Yeah.

Davina McCall21:56

I whistle to think.

Davina McCall21:58

Oh no, I can't do this, I can't do this.

Davina McCall22:00

But I've got such low

Davina McCall22:02

Sort of expectations of myself. And then actually, I do do it. And I think, God, I'm capable of so much more than I give myself credit for.

Davina McCall22:11

So sometimes I think, oh, I don't think I can do this, but I'm going to say yes, because.

Davina McCall22:16

Maybe I will do it and at the end it'll make me feel amazing.

Presenter22:19

And does it?

Davina McCall22:20

Yeah, that sport relief challenge. I achieved things that I literally didn't think were humanly possible of myself. I mean, I mentally.

Davina McCall22:29

I'm stronger than I ever imagined I would be.

Presenter22:33

One of them was swimming Lake Windermere and you you had you had a sort of morbid fear, really, of deep dark water of and lots of people will understand and share that fear indeed, but they wouldn't put themselves in Lake Windermere at God knows what temperature and at God knows what time in the morning and say, I'm going to swim across it. You did that, and you became at one point, certainly from the documentary I watched

Davina McCall22:35

And then you

Davina McCall22:38

Uh

Davina McCall22:39

Yeah.

Presenter22:52

Hypothermic, or you were on the edge of hypothermic. I was hypothermic. You were hypothermic.

Davina McCall22:53

I was hypotenic. You were hypotenic. I mean, I am.

Davina McCall22:58

I kept going. I don't know what kept me going. At one point it was so painful. Sarah, my best friend, was there, and she said it was the most painful thing to watch ever.

Davina McCall23:08

Because at one point I was doggy paddling. I couldn't lift my arm out of the water any more. I was just shutting down. And I was just desperately trying to get to the other side.

Davina McCall23:19

The temperature for the water was five degrees. The shock of putting your face in that kind of water, it's like somebody's ripping off your face with a claw.

Davina McCall23:27

But you could have quietly

Presenter23:28

You turned that down, and nobody would have ever known that you had a conversation where you said, Do you know?

Davina McCall23:31

You had a conversation

Presenter23:34

I've done a lot and no yes

Davina McCall23:34

Why did I say yes? Well, that's what I'm asking. I don't know, Cass. It's really weird.

Presenter23:36

Well that's what I'm asking you.

Davina McCall23:40

Mentally it took me a year to get over.

Presenter23:43

Didn't

Davina McCall23:43

Yeah. I mean I'd cry every time I thought about it for a year. I saw some footage of um Anne and she'd gone to school. This was a girl that I'd visited before she was working in a quarry and there she was in her school uniform and they showed me that on Support Relief Day. I was an absolute wreck after that.

Davina McCall24:00

Time for some more music. Vivian McColl, tell me about this, you're sick.

Davina McCall24:04

What can I say about Kate Bush? This woman I went to see her in concert last year and howled through the entire concert. Every single track, every breath she takes is magic. And this is from Hounds of Love, which is my favourite Kate Bush album, and this is Jig of Life.

Speaker 424:23

Hello, David.

Speaker 424:28

Know your face well

Speaker 424:33

I know anywhere else she says na na na na na na na na I'll be sitting in your mirror now is the place where the crossholds meet when you look into the future never say goodbye to my heart of your life

Speaker 424:47

Oh no no no no no

Speaker 424:50

Let me live.

Presenter24:56

That was Kate Bush and Jig of Life. That was Jig of Life. Davina McCall, you're a mother of three, as we know. How has, well, we all.

Davina McCall24:58

Good game.

Speaker 424:58

What the

Presenter25:05

Mother, if we do mother, influence by what's happened to us, how much has what happened to you that we've heard about today influenced the way you try to be a parent and the way you just naturally are a parent to your three kids?

Davina McCall25:16

I was constantly just trying to be perfect. I was so uptight and tense, and I thought I was being really relaxed, but in retrospect, I look back and, you know, I gave myself such a hard time about everything. I was desperate to not repeat the same mistakes and to be everything. And you can't be everything all the time. It's impossible. And also.

Davina McCall25:38

You know, Matthew needs attention and I need attention and there's life, I had to work. So just I had to just let go of the reins a bit. I became a bit of a control freak, it was exhausting.

Presenter25:50

Did your own relationship with your own mother repair at some point?

Davina McCall25:54

For a moment, for a for a nanosecond, so when I married Matthew.

Davina McCall25:58

She'd been um clean and sober for a while and we'd been speaking. She was living in South Africa.

Davina McCall26:03

And when I married Matthew, I said, Would you like to come to the wedding? I'd love you to come to the wedding. So she did. And before we went to a meeting and we sat together, we both cried and we held hands. And it felt like when you see a meeting, just to be clear, a narcotics anonymous meeting, it was what I'd always dreamt of. You know, my mum supporting me and me supporting her. It was beautiful.

Presenter26:15

When you say a meeting, just to be clear, a meeting, yeah.

Davina McCall26:26

And then we had a great time at the wedding. And then we went on honeymoon, and Matthew and I.

Davina McCall26:31

popped over to Paris on a um as part of our honeymoon to go and see my mum.

Davina McCall26:35

She went back to South Africa. Six months later, Matthew took me up to Scotland for a night for my birthday. And on the day of my birthday, a piece came out in the paper and it was like a headline of something like, Mummy, I need a meeting. And she'd sold a story about me and us going to meetings. I'd never actually talked about going to Narcotics Anonymous because it's an anonymous fellowship. And she blew my anonymity sort of right at that moment. and her own and sold pictures of our honeymoon and it was terrible. I mean it was the worst. It was like being stabbed in the heart and she twisted it hard.

Davina McCall27:17

And she did that a couple more times. She sold a couple more stories. And I kept going back and trying to build bridges again and think that this time would be different.

Presenter27:26

Did it end with an ac an acceptance by you that this simply cannot be repaired?

Davina McCall27:26

Did I

Davina McCall27:31

I was in counselling when she got s really sick at the end to try and come to terms with the fact that my mother will never mother me.

Davina McCall27:39

I got the news that she was very, very poorly, and one night in bed I just lay there with my palms facing upwards and I said out loud, I forgive you, I forgive you and then a few days later she died.

Davina McCall27:53

And my sister and I hugged each other, we cried a bit, and then she said, I feel relieved and I said, So do I. And, you know, for the first time we could

Davina McCall28:06

We could

Davina McCall28:07

Stop.

Davina McCall28:09

hoping that our mother could be anything other than what she is.

Davina McCall28:14

And we could just live with, you know, her memory and remember her more fondly.

Davina McCall28:19

Let's have some more music to view.

Davina McCall28:21

So this one is in memory of my lovely sister and we played this at her funeral which I know sounds really sad but it's always a song that makes me actually feel really happy and I am the harmonizing mother. My kids always joke about I have to harmonise to every single track and my harmonising started with this track. It's called Never Let Her Slip Away by Andrew Gould.

Speaker 428:44

I'm a little bit dizzy, I'm a little bit scared I guess I never felt this much aware that I love her

Speaker 428:55

I'm hoping that I never recover

Speaker 429:01

Cause she's good for me

Speaker 429:04

And it would really make me happy to never let her slip away.

Presenter29:13

That was Andrew Gold singing Never Let Her Slip Away. And it was chosen by you, Delina McCall, because you said you played it at the funeral. This was the funeral of your sister.

Presenter29:21

She died in twenty twelve. She she was young and it was a relatively sudden illness that she'd had. Tell me about her importance in your life, because anything I read or see, and going into that piece of music indeed, I get the feeling that you were extremely close with sisters.

Davina McCall29:34

I think because we shared our mother, and I mean, I've described bits of it to you, but nobody will really get it without knowing her and knowing what she was like.

Davina McCall29:49

We really only came together in my sort of mid to late twenties and became really close then.

Davina McCall29:55

What was quite brilliant about my husband is I met my husband and I was sharing a flat with my sister and then when we moved out of the flat and moved in together, he was then a boyfriend, she came with us then. And then we got married and she stayed with us. And lots of people were going, well, so so is Caroline going to move out? And I was like, n no, I don't think so. And Matthew's like, no, I don't think so. Then we had a dark period when we moved to the country and she didn't come with us because she was like, I hate the country.

Davina McCall30:21

And then she was like, I'll sod it, I'm coming.

Davina McCall30:24

And um she moved into a cottage next door to our house and it was a great time. You know, she was just in and out of our house, part of the fabric of our family. I'd almost never have a bath without her sat on the floor next to me talking.

Presenter30:37

When you reach this island all on your own,

Presenter30:40

As I cast you away. Will you have a plan? I mean, will you be getting things ship-shape? Will you be.

Davina McCall30:46

Well, I think the one thing that I've got which is great for the desert island is that I do definitely by now know that I am capable of a lot more than I think I'm capable of. I'll be planning from the get-go. Water immediately, then shelter, then I'll go about planting or getting some food. So I'm on it. I'm already on it.

Presenter31:06

Tell me, David McColl, about your final disc. What are we going to hear?

Davina McCall31:09

Sarah McLaughlin was somebody she's from Canada and she's not that well known over here. She's an artist that my husband introduced me to. He lived in New York for five years and I fell in love with her as I fell in love with him. And um this was our our music.

Davina McCall31:27

Yeah, I probably shouldn't say any more than that. What? You've got a very cheeky lithography. It was our sexy music. If you need to know, Kirsty, it was a music. I hear you. I hear you. Let's hear it.

Presenter31:29

What? You've got a very cheeky look on your face.

Presenter31:34

I hear you.

Speaker 431:41

The arms of the age.

Speaker 431:46

From here.

Speaker 431:52

From this dark hotel

Speaker 431:58

And the endlessness that you feel.

Speaker 432:05

You are pulled from the wreckage.

Speaker 432:11

Of your side.

Presenter32:15

That was Sarah McLachlan and Angel. It's time now, Devina, for me to give you the books. I give all of our castaways a copy of the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and they get to take their own book, their own favourite book, along with them. What's your book?

Davina McCall32:29

Um it's still life with Woodpecker.

Presenter32:29

Can I

Davina McCall32:33

By Tom Robbins. And it's a love story, and it's so far removed from what I normally read. I'm so shattered by the time I go to bed. I want a nice, simple book to read in bed. And so I go for sort of crime thrillers normally. But this book was a love story, and it was set on a packet of camel cigarettes. And it's so out there, but it's so beautifully written and descriptive. So I take that. That's yours then. You're allowed a luxury as well. Do you know what I'd want to take is a bath? Because I find true peace in my bath, and the children kind of know that when I'm in the bath, I'm out of bounds. I've got candles going. Do not set foot in this bathroom. This is my time.

Presenter33:19

We shall give you that bath with the bath foam and everything to go with it. If you had to save just one of these discs out of all of the eight that you've chosen, which one disc would it be?

Davina McCall33:21

And everything to go with it.

Davina McCall33:30

It would be

Davina McCall33:32

Angel, Sarah McLaughlin, because it was the beginning of a new phase of my life with Matthew and ever since I met him I've looked forward and not backwards.

Presenter33:44

It's yours, Stevina McCall. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Davina McCall33:47

Scientists

Presenter34:28

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter34:31

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4

Speaker 335:02

This is the B B C.