Bill Gates

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

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For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

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My castaway this week is Bill Gates. He is known principally for three things Microsoft making money and now giving vast sums of it away.

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The first part of his life saw him found, build, and run a software company so successful it's made him the richest person on earth.

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Now he's turned his formidable drive and intellect to funding and running the world's largest independent charitable foundation.

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with the simply stated aim of dramatically improving the quality of life of billions of people.

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All this from the world's most celebrated college dropout.

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His father says his son has never done things by halves. Aged eleven, he was a boy who appeared to gain the intellect of an adult almost overnight, reading anything he could get his hands on, including a full set of encyclopedias cover to cover.

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Forty years ago his early ability to work on code, the very architecture of computer technology, and to so readily grasp its profound implications

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has indelibly shaped both his life and ours.

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He says It's pretty amazing to go from a world where computers were unheard of and very complex, to where they're a tool of every day life. That was the dream that I wanted to make come true, and in large part it's unfolded as I expected.

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So, Bill Gates, welcome to Desert Island Discs. In this fast moving digital age, I think it would be fair to say that time is pretty much our most precious commodity, and I have it on good authority that your life and your appointments are timed in one-minute slots. Am I right about that?

Bill Gates2:08

Well, I'm very busy, but no, I I don't do one minute meetings and I I do leave a lot of time so I can read and think about things.

Presenter2:15

In 2014 then you stepped down of course as chairman of the board of Microsoft, the company that you had co-founded back in the mid seventies.

Presenter2:23

Over the last year and a bit, how much has your life changed?

Bill Gates2:28

Well the big transition was in 2008 where I went from being full time at Microsoft and part time at the foundation to the other way around. My primary passion, all my travel, most of my reading is about the work of our foundation which I do together with my wife.

Presenter2:47

I suppose I'm wondering if there is a part of your heart though that is always in technological innovation. I mean are there things happening in that world that you're no longer full time in that really excite you right now?

Bill Gates2:58

The digital revolution, which keeps moving at an incredible pace, not only do I try and stay up on that, it's also part of how we're going to lift up the lives of poor people, like doing digital banking on phones. That's my original career, but now applied not just to people willing to pay for software, but for those in the world who are worst off.

Presenter3:18

You've already mentioned today, I think, two or three times, reading. These days, what piques your interest. How much do you read?

Bill Gates3:24

I try and read a book most weeks. I read the Economist cover to cover. I get lots of friends sending me book ideas and articles. I also watch a lot of lectures. There's a company that, whether it's science or history or economics, get the best professors and record their lectures. So often when I'm flying around, I'm watching those DVDs.

Presenter3:46

Bill Gates, I don't know how much you know about our little island here that we're going to cast you away to, but but of course you're going to be all alone. How does that prospect suit you?

Bill Gates3:56

Well, I'd be disappointed because first, you know, the time to read and think and write stuff would be great, but then say I have an idea about malaria eradication. I do I get to tell somebody, do I get to go out and actually go do it? So I wouldn't be long before I'd be trying to get off the island.

Presenter4:14

Okay, we're gonna go to your music, then. Let's hear about the first one.

Bill Gates4:18

This is David Bowie and Queen doing Under Pressure. In my twenties and thirties, I worked a lot, but a few Fridays and Saturdays we'd go out and dance. So this kind of reminds me of those disco days with a little bit of weekend freedom.

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Listen down on you, no man has fallen

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Under pressure

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Burns a feeling down, switch a family into what's feet.

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But Uh

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Uh

Speaker 24:54

Back.

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Beat it up.

Speaker 24:59

That's okay. That's the terror of knowing what this world is about. Watch you some good friends.

Speaker 35:08

I took my

Presenter5:11

Under pressure, David Bowie and Queen. So the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has to date spent thirty four billion dollars on projects in around about, I think, one hundred countries.

Presenter5:23

Of the many areas that it works in, which are the ones that really grab you, that sort of set you alight?

Bill Gates5:29

Well, a big thing for us is getting rid of the diseases that kill children under five. And over the last twenty-five years, we've gone from having twelve million children a year die to now less than six million a year.

Bill Gates5:45

And we'd like to cut that in half again in the next 15 years. So that means we've got to go take malaria, which is still killing over 600,000 kids a year. We have to get rid of it.

Presenter5:56

And your approach when you started, am I right in saying that you looked at the world map and you wondered where you could most effectively spend money in projects where we knew how to cure things, it just wasn't being done, either because governments didn't have a mind to do it or didn't have the cash to do it?

Bill Gates6:14

Yeah, I knew that the

Bill Gates6:16

the wealth I had from Microsoft, Melinda and I wanted to give it back in the most impactful way. And so after a trip to Africa, we really started learning about disease, which I hadn't known a lot about. I was so focused on computers and all the the miracle there. And we were stunned to realize that

Bill Gates6:35

For each thousand dollars we gave, if we did it the right way, we could save a life.

Presenter6:39

You say we wanted to give it back all this money that you had made. Wh why did you want to give it back?

Bill Gates6:45

What do you

Bill Gates6:45

Don't have many choices. I mean, you're not going to spend it on yourself.

Bill Gates6:49

And we think only a small portion should go to our kids so that they can have their own careers and make their own way. And so that leaves most of it for Melinda and I to work on how should it be spent for the most needy in the world.

Presenter7:04

Combating malaria, HIV, AIDS and polio have been three of the areas of concerted effort for your foundation.

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I imagine visiting the projects in the field. The the human suffering you see first hand.

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Must be enormous.

Bill Gates7:22

When you see the

Bill Gates7:23

The cost of the diseases, or even the malnutrition, where the kids who survive don't grow up to achieve their full potential. It does bother you that there's not more generosity, or there's not more creativity, that we're not drawing in the best scientists. Of course, you not only see how tough it is, but you also see the improvement. I was just in Nigeria last week, and everyone thought we'd never get rid of polio there. Now we've gone 18 months without a single case, not only in Nigeria, but all of Africa. We're down to just Pakistan and Afghanistan as the only countries with any polio. So we're hopefully very close to making it the second disease ever after smallpox that has been completely eradicated.

Presenter8:09

Time for some more music, Bill Gates. Tell me about our second, then.

Bill Gates8:12

Well, my wife Melinda and I love Willie Nelson, and so as a surprise gift for her, I had him show up the night before we got married. We were on a beach in Hawaii, and he kind of walked down the beach with his guitar, and I said, oh, here he is, let's have this guy sing some songs for us. And it was kind of dark. It wasn't until he kind of got up on the stage and started singing that everybody realized, oh, Willie Nelson had come to sing. And, you know, one of our favorite songs is this one.

Speaker 28:24

Nice at all.

Bill Gates8:37

Look sky.

Bill Gates8:39

Smiling at me.

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Nothing but blue sky.

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Do I see?

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Blue bird Uh

Bill Gates8:51

Singing song

Bill Gates8:54

Nothing but blue sky.

Bill Gates8:57

From now home.

Bill Gates9:00

I never saw the sun

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Shining so bright, never saw things go in so light Noticing days hurrying by When you're in love, mind how they fly by

Presenter9:14

Memories of the night before your wedding, Bill Gates. That was Willie Nelson singing Blue Sky. So you were born into a family, it has to be said, with a pretty distinguished uh pedigree in business, politics, community service. Your great grandfather had been our state legislator and mayor.

Bill Gates9:14

Memories of

Presenter9:28

Your grandfather was the vice president of a national bank, and your father was a successful prominent lawyer. And what was he like as a dad when you were a little boy?

Bill Gates9:37

My dad was pretty busy. He'd uh go early in the morning off to work, come back at dinner time.

Bill Gates9:43

Um my mom did a lot of the the family stuff, but at dinner we would talk about my dad's lawsuits, and so my older sister and I got an exposure to the world from a pretty young age.

Bill Gates9:56

And our grandmothers both were big readers, and so they both read to us and taught us reading a lot of books. Is it true that your mother?

Presenter10:03

His nickname was Giggles.

Bill Gates10:05

Yes, apparently when she was young they uh called her that. She was very energetic, wanted to make sure we were serious about our work and did our chores.

Presenter10:14

I I read also that she was intensely competitive.

Bill Gates10:17

Is that true? Oh, we did a lot of family games. Uh I learned a lot of different card games. And when we had people over to the house we would do different games. Outdoors, things like capture the flag, volleyball, charades.

Presenter10:30

And your mother started off as a teacher. She sounds to me like somebody who was very

Presenter10:34

highly socially engaged. Uh you know, she wanted to be out there in the community doing her thing. Did she bring that to the dinner table?

Bill Gates10:40

Right, so she uh i as women were more drawn in uh to different activities, first she did volunteer things, eventually she went on to some corporate boards. So she also, along with my dad, had lots of interesting things like United Way is a charitable organization, uh Planned Parenthood, volunteering, um Planned Parenthood.

Presenter11:00

That would have been quite controvers I mean, it still is controversial in parts of America.

Bill Gates11:04

That's right. But my parents were both big believers in it. My dad was the head of that. So they set a very good example of being engaged in in giving back.

Presenter11:14

Your father said of you when you were a little boy, you know, that often he would be kind of shouting up the stairs, Belle, it's time to go and he would say, What are you doing? and you would say, I'm thinking. As a little boy, you know, did it feel busy in your head?

Bill Gates11:26

Well, there were a lot of uh mysteries about how things worked, you know, why some people succeeded, other people didn't. I read tons of biographies of people.

Bill Gates11:37

to get a sense of different careers.

Presenter11:39

Did you have a sense quite young that success was important?

Bill Gates11:43

Mm, I knew I wanted

Bill Gates11:45

to work on hard problems.

Bill Gates11:49

Uh so something like being a lawyer looked interesting, but being a scientist looked even more interesting.

Bill Gates11:56

And then the computer came along and kind of surprised me as none of those biographies I read had people been involved in computers'cause that was completely new. And so it it answered my question of what I was going to work on. So you know, all that worrying about it, thinking about it, you know, the the solution appeared magically.

Presenter12:13

More of that to come, of course. For now, let's listen to your third choice. Tell us a little bit about this one.

Bill Gates12:18

Well, my kids, who are 19, 16, and 13, refresh my musical taste by tuning the radio or calling up songs on their phones. And so this is one that my 13-year-old Phoebe happens to like. Ed Sheeran has lots of good songs, but we picked this one to sing.

Presenter12:37

I need you, darling, come on separate tone. If you feel the falling, won't you let me know?

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Oh

Speaker 312:53

If you love me, come on, get involved.

Speaker 312:57

Feel it rushing through you from your head to toe.

Speaker 313:04

Oh

Presenter13:15

That was Ed Sheeran and Singh. Just as we were going into that, Bill Gates, you said that computers came along and solved the problem of what this young boy was going to engage his very active, able brain with. I had read that although you were brought up in this very nurturing and loving home, when you were 12, your parents were worried about you. I mean, they were worried enough to send you to a child psychologist. What was the problem?

Bill Gates13:37

I was a bit disruptive. I I started early on sort of questioning were their rules logical and uh always to be followed. So there's a tiny bit of tension there as I was kind of pushing back. And the person they sent me to was very nice and, you know, got me reading a lot about psychology and Freud and stuff like that. And he'd convinced me that

Bill Gates14:01

that you know it was kind of an unfair thing that I I would challenge my parents and it really wasn't proving anything. So by the time I was fourteen I got over that, which is good because then they were very supportive as I started to really engage in

Bill Gates14:18

writing software and learning different computer things.

Presenter14:21

We're around about, as you say, fourteen when Lakeside School got a computer. Tell me, please, about the first time that little Bill Gates met a computer.

Bill Gates14:31

The teachers found it very baffling and so there were a few of us who were very good at math and just sat around there playing with the thing, ended up figuring it out. They even had us teach programming to some of the other kids as well. And then companies eventually came and said, hey, come and help us with some software problems.

Presenter14:52

And so, Paul Allen, who was a couple of years ahead of you at Lakeside School and would, of course, become your co founder of Microsoft, is it true that both of you worked out a way of manipulating the school software in order that you were the only two boys in classes full of girls?

Bill Gates15:08

Yeah, Paul did the computer scheduling with me. Unfortunately for him, he was two years ahead of me, but he was off of college by then. So I was the one who benefited by being able to have the nice girls at least sit near me. It wasn't that I could talk to them or anything, but they were there. I think I was particularly inept at talking to girls or thinking about, okay, do you ask them out? Do you not? And did you? Did you pluck up the courage? A little bit, but not much. Then when I went off to Harvard, then I was a little bit more sociable. But I was below average on

Speaker 215:16

And he was

Bill Gates15:47

talking to girls.

Presenter15:49

Between the ages of thirteen and sixteen, typically how many hours a day do you think you were spending programming and and working it out with a computer?

Bill Gates15:58

Yeah, I got pretty obsessed skipping gym class and going over to the computer center at nights a lot. You know, I I spent at least four or five hours a day working on programming things. It it was my big thing, and my grades weren't suffering because of it.

Presenter16:14

When you were engaging in it, at that age, did you feel like somebody with a kind of great privileged secret?

Bill Gates16:22

Absolutely.

Bill Gates16:23

And then at one point Paul found the magazine that showed that they were putting computers, which were gigantic, putting them all onto a chip, which was called the microprocessor, and that every couple of years it would double in power. And so when Paul showed me that, we realized not only did we have this magic world that we were having fun with, but that it was going to explode and change everything.

Presenter16:46

I want to know all about that in just a second, but tell me about this. We're going to listen to your fourth.

Bill Gates16:50

Well, Paul Allen was far more into music than I was. And the musician that he loved the most was Jimi Hendrix. And because I was younger, he would sometimes taunt me with the title of the song, Are You Experienced? because I hadn't gotten drunk or other various things. So this is one of our favorites.

Presenter17:11

But first, are you it?

Bill Gates17:15

Very interesting

Bill Gates17:19

Have you ever been experienced? Well, I am

Bill Gates17:29

Yeah.

Speaker 217:29

I know, I know, you probably scream. Human cry That your little world won't let you go

Speaker 217:41

But who in your measly little world are you trying to prove that you're made out of gold and a

Presenter17:50

Jimi Hendricks and Are You Experienced? Um the company uh Microsoft, the Windows Operating Systems, the subsequent Gates Foundation, maybe none of them would have existed if it hadn't been for Paul Allen's discovery of this little kit computer. It w it was on it was on the front of what they called then the Hobbyist magazine, wasn't it?

Bill Gates18:08

Yeah, well Paul had seen that the microprocessor was coming, but then in uh December 1974 Paul got the magazine, brought it to me and said the thing that

Bill Gates18:19

we had talked about was starting to happen and it might happen without us. So we needed to call up that company and go down there and help them write software. In fact, they were pretty naive about software so they were actually quite enthused when we said we had software for the machine. So I left Harvard at that time and we started Microsoft.

Presenter18:37

You were ninety.

Presenter18:40

When you said to your parents, Uh, Mum and Dad, I'm leaving Harvard, how did that conversation go?

Bill Gates18:46

Well, and better than you might think because

Bill Gates18:48

If the company had failed, it's not like Harvard wouldn't have taken me back. And they knew that I loved college. It was only that this one thing seemed like it was happening. We wanted to be at the center of it and really drive it forward was even more exciting than college. So they saw it as some side thing that maybe had a low probability of working out, but that it wouldn't damage me.

Presenter19:11

And so Microsoft I think it had a hyphen when you began the company and how did you start it?

Bill Gates19:15

Well, Paul and I had done enough programming things, including our high school scheduling, that we've saved some money. So we just funded it ourselves and had enough to hire a few people. The company with the kid computer was our first customer, so we licensed the software to them. And then many other companies came along to make these personal computers. So in 1975, we write the basic. By 1977, you've got Apple Computer with the Apple II, Commodore, Radio Shack, a number of machines coming out, almost all based on our software.

Presenter19:49

And this sort of frantic feeling, just briefly, that you say you had, we've got to start this because other people are going to get there if we don't, actually, that was vital to the company's success.

Bill Gates19:57

Yeah, being first helped a lot. I mean, we got to make a lot of mistakes'cause it was all new. You know, how do you go do business in Japan? You know, I'm hiring people who are older than me. I can't even rent a car because I'm not twenty one years old. So it it was really frantic. You did drive with a license, didn't you? I had I lost my license at one point because I sped a little too much. I'm I'm well over that. But back then, my first car was a Porsche 9-11. One of my few indulgences was that at night to think about our strategy, I'd go out and drive my Porsche up in the the hills.

Presenter20:33

How old are you? Uh, nineteen. I don't even want to think about the insurance on that. Um, let's go to your next piece of music then. We're on your fifth.

Bill Gates20:40

As the foundation was getting going around 2000, Paul told me that I should meet Bono. And I didn't prioritize it because I thought a musician isn't going to really understand this global health stuff. But we finally did get to meet. And I was amazed at how he had thought about it, read about it. And so it started a partnership. And he's been absolutely amazing.

Bill Gates21:06

Will it make it easier?

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Easier on you.

Presenter21:09

Now

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You got someone to blame

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You say

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Warm blood.

Speaker 221:19

Won't lie.

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When it's born me

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Night

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Won't let me go.

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Get to share it.

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Leaves you, baby, don't care.

Presenter21:40

That was you two and one. So, Bill Gates, by nineteen seventy nine you were running Microsoft. The company was crossing around about two point five million dollars. You were only twenty three.

Presenter21:50

In those first, let's say, ten years of building Microsoft, what was going on in the rest of your life?

Bill Gates21:57

I was quite fanatical about work. I worked weekends. I didn't really believe in vacations.

Presenter22:04

If the boss doesn't believe in taking vacations, then sure as hell the people under him shouldn't be taking any vacations. You've got a very broad smile on your face. Did you find that, you know, you had to drag people along with you or were they all as equally invested?

Bill Gates22:17

See you.

Presenter22:17

The

Bill Gates22:17

Okay.

Presenter22:17

Yeah.

Bill Gates22:17

Yeah.

Presenter22:17

Yeah.

Bill Gates22:17

No, I had to be a little careful not to try and uh apply my standards to how hard they worked. You know, I knew everybody's license plate, so I could look out in the parking lot and see, you know, when did people come in, when were they leaving. Uh now ev eventually I had to loosen up as the company got to a reasonable size.

Presenter22:35

I want to just spool forward a little bit. The operating system Windows ninety five sold around about forty million copies in its first year, so a huge success.

Presenter22:46

With success came this string and very well documented string of Federal Trade Commission US Justice Department investigations into alleged unfair marketing and so on and so on. Ruthless was a word that was very often used.

Presenter23:00

To describe your business practices. And of course the concern was that this company was so phenomenally successful that it would end up being a monopoly, and a monopoly is not healthy. Would you say you were ruthless in business?

Bill Gates23:12

No, only if you define having super low prices as ruthless. It's hard to compete with somebody who's betting on the volume and saying, hey, we're going to have share by having these super low prices. That's very intimidating. And in that sense, yes, we were aggressive.

Presenter23:28

Let's talk for a moment about the relationship between you and the late Steve Jobs of Apple. It is one that has fascinated business commentators and people in the tech world for so many years. Can you tell me about your relationship with him in the early days?

Bill Gates23:45

Well, Steve really is a singular person in the history of personal computing in terms of what he built at Apple. And for some periods we're complete allies working together. I wrote software for the original Apple II. Sometimes he'd be very tough on you. Sometimes he'd be very encouraging. And he got really great work out of people.

Bill Gates24:07

Yeah.

Presenter24:07

Yeah.

Bill Gates24:07

Die.

Presenter24:07

Of course, in twenty eleven, just uh fifty-six years old. As I understand it, you saw him a few months before he died. Uh when you spoke to him, what did the two of you speak about?

Bill Gates24:17

Well, in the early years

Bill Gates24:19

The intensity had always been about the project. And so then, as Steve got sick, it was far more mellow in terms of talking about our lives and our kids. In fact, he and I gave a joint interview together. You know, I talked about how I envied his incredible design skills. Steve was an incredible genius, and I was more of an engineer than he was. But anyway, it was fun that it was more of a friendship that was reflective, although tragically then he couldn't overcome the cancer and died.

Presenter24:50

And so tell me then about this next piece of music. What

Bill Gates24:53

When we did the interview, Steve was really into music. He loved the Beatles and so did I, and he actually mentioned this song The Two of Us, saying that was kind of like this journey we'd been on where we'd been competing and working together, that only we understood how intense and what great memories came out of that.

Speaker 325:13

Memories along the land A road that stretches a lot ahead

Presenter25:25

The bus wearing raincoats.

Speaker 225:28

Stop.

Presenter25:28

And it's so low.

Speaker 225:31

In the song.

Speaker 225:34

You and me chasing Lee

Bill Gates25:38

Getting nowhere on our way.

Presenter25:48

The Beatles and Two of Us from Memories of Euro.

Presenter25:52

Can I call him your good friend? Steve Jobs your good friend?

Bill Gates25:53

Steve George, you're a good friend.

Presenter25:56

So, Bill Gates, uh, you've been married to Melinda since 1994. Can you remember the very first time you met her?

Bill Gates26:03

Yeah, we were there was a Microsoft meeting in New York.

Bill Gates26:10

And I was the second to last one to come. And I sat down and she was the last one to come. She s sat down next to me. And I asked her if she wanted to go out dancing that night. And she had some other people she was going off with. So then a few weeks later, I saw her in the parking lot and I said, Hey, could you go out in a couple of weeks? And she said, Well, that that wasn't spontaneous enough for her.

Presenter26:35

Goodness knows how many magazines listed you as the world's most eligible bachelor. Was she slightly giving you the run around? Was she slightly making you run around?

Bill Gates26:42

Neither of us started out thinking that it would turn into you know I was still being fanatical but then after the first big trip we went on we watched the videotape of the sound of music which we both loved and that's when it really started to get kind of serious because on that that trip we talked a lot about our dreams for for the future.

Presenter27:05

Do you think she ever had doubts that she could deal with you and the way you lived your life? I mean, it sounds like such an extreme life of such devotion to business. Well, she changed that.

Bill Gates27:16

And I wanted her to change it. I was willing in my twenties and most of my 30s to say the job was the center of my life. And therefore I wasn't going to get married or have kids. But I knew that eventually I wanted to. And she arrived at kind of the perfect time. And we fell in love. And I had to think about it a little bit. And I said, Yeah, I want to change my priorities. And now we actually take quite a few vacations. I'm sure myself in my 20s would look at my schedule now and find it very wimpy indeed.

Presenter27:53

And so aside from family life, you have set up the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and along with all the work you do, of course, comes a huge amount of attention. You will be aware, I'm sure, very recently of the Campaign for Global Justice criticising your organization because they say they are worried

Presenter28:09

that the Foundation's relationship with big business, with pharmaceuticals, with the promotion of genetically modified crops is not in the best interests of some communities. Personally, what do you make of that sort of criticism?

Bill Gates28:22

Well, it's important that big institutions be subject to criticism. I want the foundation to do the best job possible. There are some things like we believe in in giving women contraception and the use of science, including GMO seeds. We think that's very important because we're trying to stop malnutrition and that the safety's been proven.

Bill Gates28:45

You know, the criticism is important because we're out there working on big, big issues. And.

Bill Gates28:52

To whom much is given, uh much is expected. Uh that's something that my mom, who died just a year after we got married, said to us on the the day we were we were married.

Presenter29:04

Let's have some more music, Bill Gates. We're now on your seventh. Tell me about this.

Bill Gates29:10

I mentioned Melinda and I both loved the sound of music. And later, as I met Warren Buffett, another amazing person, he and his first wife Susie sang a song from the sound of music. And in fact, this is one we'd never heard of because it was in the Broadway Musical and not in the movie. And it's kind of a cute song. So Melinda and I think of this as one of our favorites. It's called How Can Love Survive.

Speaker 229:37

No rides for us on the top of a bus in the face of the freezing breeze

Presenter29:41

Uh

Speaker 229:45

You reach your goals in your comfy old roles or in one of your mercedes

Speaker 229:53

Far, very far off the meme only.

Speaker 229:57

Quaint and bill Bizarre as it Team of

Presenter30:01

Two millionaires with a drum

Speaker 230:03

Dream are we, we're keeping romance alive. Two millionaires with a dream are we, we'll make our own Sam I

Presenter30:18

Can Love Survive? from the Broadway version of Rogers and Hammerstein's The Sound of Music, sung there by Kurt Katzner and Marion Marlowe. Um Bill Gates, the tag of the richest man in the world, reputed net worth seventy nine billion dollars. Um you give huge amounts of your personal wealth away. Do you have a guilty pleasure?

Bill Gates30:39

Well, you know, I buy all the books that I want, but that's not a lot of money. Oh, come on. I'd say that being able to fly.

Presenter30:42

Oh, come on.

Bill Gates30:46

in my own plane is the most guilty thing I do. But it allows me to get out to Africa and to Asia, travel a lot more than I would otherwise. It's a real luxury.

Presenter30:59

The famed industrialist and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie once said, Whatever I engage in, I must push inordinately.

Presenter31:06

Something about that reminded me of you. Have you ever wondered?

Presenter31:11

Why you are the way you are.

Presenter31:13

Why it is that when you do something, you have to do it the way you do it, which is to the nth degree.

Bill Gates31:21

Oh, a little bit, sure.

Presenter31:22

Ah, and what have you come up with?

Bill Gates31:25

I think if you're in science, you learn to be good at being self-critical and questioning your assumptions.

Bill Gates31:36

I've always thought being intense about things is kind of a young, fun, energetic way to go about things. And I hope in the decades ahead as we're trying to do these ambitious goals, I keep that kind of intensity. I can't answer exactly why I'm a l a little more intense than other people.

Bill Gates31:56

I'm no more intense than Steve Jobs was, I'll say that. Well, that's quite the comparison.

Presenter32:00

Comparison. Let's have your eighth disc of the morning then. What's the final one?

Bill Gates32:04

Well, I love plays, including musicals, and one of absolutely the best I've ever seen is this Hamilton that's now on Broadway. And this is one of many great songs from it, but it's about a young person saying, Hey, I'm going to take a risk. I'm going to get out there and try and do something new and different. So, this song in particular appeals to me. It's called My Shot.

Speaker 332:26

I am not thrown away my shot. I am not thrown away my shot. I'm just like my country. I'm young, scrappy, and hungry. And I'm not throwing away my shot. I'ma get a scholarship to King's College. I probably shouldn't brag, but dagger amazement astonished. The problem is I got a lot of brains, but no polish. I gotta holler just to be heard with every word. I drop knowledge. I'm a diamond in the rough. A shiny piece of coal. Trying to reach my goal. My power of speech, unimpeachable. Only 19, but my mind is solder. These New York City streets get cold. I shoulder.

Presenter32:58

That was my shot from the musical Hamilton, composed by Lynne Manuel Miranda and sung by members of the original Broadway cast. So it's time now, Bill Gates, to do what I do with all my castaways, which is I give you a couple of books. You get the Bible, and you get the complete works of Shakespeare to take to this island.

Presenter33:14

And you also get to take a book of your own. What book would you like to take along?

Bill Gates33:18

Well, my favorite book is by Steven Pinker, and it's called The Better Angels of Our Nature. And it's a brilliant discussion of how humanity's treating humanity better. Less deaths, less slavery over time. I'm always telling people to read the book, but it's very long. So on the Desert Island, I guess I'll get to read it many times.

Presenter33:39

Okay, you get to take your copy of that then. And we allow everybody a luxury. What will your luxury be?

Bill Gates33:45

Well, I suppose asking for an internet connection is probably outside the rules. That breaches every possible rule.

Presenter33:49

That breaches every possible rule.

Bill Gates33:52

Okay, you know, I love these lectures, so I'd load up a whole bunch of DVDs of all the world's great lectures.

Presenter33:59

We shall give you that, then. And if you had to save just one of these eight carefully chosen tracks from the waves, which one would it be?

Bill Gates34:07

Well, because of the center role Melinda and Our Marriage has and all the great things going on, I'd I'd pick the uh Blue Skies, the Willie Nelson song.

Presenter34:16

It's yours. Bill Gates, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you.

Presenter35:01

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website, bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4.