Sandi Toksvig

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons, the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:33

My castaway this week is the writer and performer Sandy Toxvig. She is exactly as she should be. That is to say that given her father was a well-known, witty, endlessly curious broadcaster and journalist, and her mother a BBC pioneer and inveterate globetrotter, their offspring's work, passions, interests, and abilities make complete sense. Her first television appearance was at the age of four. She would later ditch the big white hairbow and embrace a working life that has taken in children's books, T V comedy shows, travel programmes, stage plays, novels, and, of course, her hugely successful chairmanship of the News Quiz here on Radio 4.

Presenter1:09

Having been busy primarily with making us laugh, she now seems intent upon making us think a little more by helping to set up the Women's Equality Party. She says

Presenter1:19

I think life is endlessly interesting. There isn't the time to do all the things I'd like to do. I've got a million novels in my head. I've got a million plays in my head. So welcome, Sandy Toxwig. Is it true that before any stand-up gig you your warm-up is to conduct an imaginary orchestra doing uh performing Beethoven's Ninths? It is. I haven't a musical note in my head, sadly. Um but I do love music and it makes me feel good. Uh and I sometimes get an entire audience to stand up and conduct the very end of Ode to Joy. And we all feel good. It's a wonderful feeling, isn't it? It's about being Mickey Mouse in charge of an orchestra. You once said that your ambition was to stop showing off and to make more jam. How's that working out for you? I haven't made any jam for ages. I have just knitted a rabbit. I enjoy it. In fact, I had to say to you, can I knit during the show? We decided maybe it was best to pay attention. That clicking would be irritating, wouldn't it? You took note of my disapproving stare when you asked that.

Sandi Toksvig2:09

Pay attention.

Sandi Toksvig2:13

Why do you ask that?

Presenter2:14

Rumours abound that you're going to stand for London Mayor next year. Is that true? How did these rumours get started, do you suppose? Can you imagine anybody more inappropriate to be mayor? Oh, yes, with the current mayor. I it's it is absolutely not my intention. I am helping to found a political party, the Women's Equality Party, but I do not wish to be a politician. I'm too busy and it isn't my skill set. Oh, that was quite a politician's answer that we had. It's not happening. From me, it's a no. I am not going to stand for Mayor of London. Oh, you see, that is that's annoying, because my next question I planned it to be that given that you're now immersed in politics, has there been a spin doctor at your list of eight discs this morning? But I'm guessing that's a no. No, that's a no too as well. I wouldn't know what to do with a spin doctor.

Sandi Toksvig2:40

Oh.

Presenter2:54

Your list is chock full of joy. Yeah. I like life. I'm not going to be able to stroke the warm underbelly of your depression throughout this interview then. Every comedian has a dark side. I always say to people, if you're going to have a dinner party, don't invite comedians, because they'll sit around saying, Oh, isn't the world terrible or isn't it awful? But on the whole, I take an optimistic view of life because I'm endlessly thrilled by new music I hadn't heard before, or books I haven't read, or people new friends that you make suddenly that you weren't expecting to make. You said once that you had never had a moment of boredom in your life. I mean, is that entirely that's not entirely true, is it? No, it is absolutely true. I'm just interested in the world.

Sandi Toksvig2:57

I like life.

Sandi Toksvig3:01

Okay, so

Sandi Toksvig3:27

I mean

Sandi Toksvig3:29

The noise is absolutely.

Presenter3:33

And in people and in stories. And I think you could walk down the shortest street in the blandest town and find a million stories on it. So I'm afraid I am a bit pollyannerish about life and not being bored. Tell me about your first piece this morning, Cindy Toxvick. What are we going to enjoy? So this song is so critical to me because it is the song that I sang every morning that I woke my three wonderful children. I don't know whether they like it or not, I think they do. And it's from Singing in the Rain. It's Good Morning. And if I was on my own, I would think about the lovely, shiny faces of my three children who I love beyond all measure.

Sandi Toksvig3:57

No other face

Speaker 44:11

Good morning. Good morning. We've talked the whole night through. Good morning. Good morning.

Presenter4:17

Martin

Speaker 44:18

To you Good morning, good morning

Speaker 44:23

It's great to stay up late. Good morning. Good morning to you.

Speaker 44:30

When the band began to play, the stars were shining bright.

Speaker 44:34

Now the milkman's on his way, it's too late to say good night. So good morning, good morning, sunbeams will soon smile through. Good morning, good morning to you and you.

Presenter4:47

Good morning, performed by Gene Kelly, Debbie Reynolds and Donald O'Connor from the original film soundtrack from Singing in the Rain. The lyrics are by Arthur Freed. The music was composed and arranged by Lenny Hayton and orchestrated there by Wally Heglin. So I'm talking to you, it seems to me, Sandy Toxvig, at quite a significant time in your life, a time of sort of transition and change. You've just stepped down from the news quiz after nine years. You are helping to start this new political party, forming a new political party, which must seem a very big job indeed. Concers. And you have lost recently four stones in weight. And I am wondering, how would you rate those in order of importance? And are they interrelated? They are interrelated. I would not be able to keep going at the pace that I do if I had continued at the weight that I was. I'm 57. I was beginning to get issues with my feet, possible high blood pressure and so on. And I decided I've lived in my brain for so long, I needed to live in my body as well and connect somewhere at the neck. And I feel so much better.

Sandi Toksvig5:20

I don't know.

Presenter5:48

I eat better, I sleep better, I actually enjoy exercise. And it was partly because there's still so much that I want to do. And uh change in the world, that would be on my list. And I am really tired of the battle between the left and the right. I'm bored now. And I wanted to start a non-partisan political party. So we're not from the left, we're not from the right. And the idea is to focus on equality in this country. Let's all have our children on a level playing field. Let's stop having a gender pay gap between men and women. Only ten percent of men take paternity leave. Let's have a look at that and find out why more of them don't feel able to give up their job even for two weeks to be home with their new baby.

Sandi Toksvig6:03

Um

Presenter6:29

Here's the thing, the Women's Equality Party, I can immediately relate that to the news quiz insofar as showing other women that it can be done and done well is one of the most important things to do. When you step down, although it's being fronted now by the hugely capable Miles Jupp, when you step down, did you for a moment worry about letting down the sisterhood? Isn't that the weirdest thing that you can't just be a broadcaster or a writer in your own right? You somehow represent all womanhood. That's an odd position to find yourself in. What I like to think is I'm still doing a million things. I still present shows on television and I still write novels and I still try and do my best to be out there. But yes, you do think about it. And they always go about, we should add more women on panel shows. And I always give the same answer. Have more female hosts.

Sandi Toksvig6:48

Isn't it?

Sandi Toksvig6:55

I'm not sure.

Presenter7:14

That's the answer. And then automatically, the women on the panel feel more relaxed. And somehow the boys behave better. One of the things I instituted when I started as the host of the new squeeze was when I introduced everybody to the audience, they came on and they got a hug from me. That was the very first thing that happened. And automatically, everybody's friendlier at the table. Your wife, Debbie, is a psych, she's a psychotherapist. What is her thumbnail analysis of you? She does it with love. People often say to her in the street, oh, it must be such fun living with Sandy. And she goes, Yes. It's a very long, drawn out. Yes. She and I have a new rule.

Presenter7:49

Which is I'm not allowed to have a new idea until she's had her first cup of tea in the morning. I'm not allowed to say. Do you know, I was thinking, wouldn't it be wonderful if we have to have at least fifteen minutes of quiet before I'm allowed to get overexcited? Tell me about your piece of music then. What are we going to hear next? Well, you should have a song for your partner. Debbie and I are married, which is lovely. We've been together nine years. And we were researching for a novel that I was writing. We were driving across America.

Sandi Toksvig8:05

That

Sandi Toksvig8:06

Well

Presenter8:16

And we were in Lexington, Nebraska, outside a Super Walmart, when we suddenly realized it was our wedding anniversary. We'd both entirely forgotten. And this song came on. It's a classic country and western. And right or wrong, this is our song.

Speaker 28:34

Hey guy gotta do to get a girl in this town Don't wanna be alone when the sun goes down Just a sweet little something to put my arms around What's a guy gotta do to get a girl in this town?

Speaker 28:47

Well ask anybody, I'm a pretty good guy And it looks decent wagon didn't pass me by There ain't nothing in my pass that I'm trying all to hide And I don't understand why gotta wonder why What's a guy gotta do to get a girl in this town I wanna be alone when the sun goes down Just a sweet little something to put my arms around What's a guy gotta do to get a girl in this town?

Presenter9:10

What's a Guy Gotta Do to Get a Girl in This Time, written and performed by Joan Nicholls. So, Sandy, your childhood was spent in Africa, in Europe, in the USA. Why was there so much getting about? Ah, my father was foreign correspondent for Danish television. I say that like we had many, he was the foreign correspondent.

Sandi Toksvig9:20

Uh my

Presenter9:27

He was it. And he wasn't always a big fan of formal education. He believed that we could learn a lot by being on the road with him, and indeed we did. So, aged uh four and my brother was six, it wasn't uncommon for the two of us to be in a hotel room ordering room service and um having the phone there in case we got into any kind of difficulty. And my dad would expect us to participate, so I think from about the age of eight, if you hadn't read the first three pages of the New York Times, you hadn't really got anything to talk about at dinner. Is that true? You were actually expected to read the first three pages? Just I don't he treated us not so much as children, as small adults.

Presenter10:01

with views and he what was what was so great about my dad was that he took us seriously and he wanted to know what we thought about things. And I think maybe it was a a European thing of the time, but we were often given a little bit of wine at dinner. It was quite you'd get it watered down. And I remember being at a meeting of lots of his colleagues, we were in Texas.

Presenter10:20

And I took a sip of the wine and I pulled on my dad's sleeve. I said, Dad, the wine's corked. And he went, shush!

Presenter10:26

And I said, No, Dad, really, seriously, the wine's caught. He went Shush and he took a big sip of wine, and then he stood up, and in a very formal way, which he could do sometimes, he clicked his heels and tapped the wine glass, and said, Ladies and gentlemen, I just wish to apologise formally to my daughter, who told me the wine was corked, and I failed to listen.

Presenter10:42

And I never forgot it because it was taking a child very seriously. But, you know, today, weird, right, that a child of eight or nine knows the wines caught. So you were a precocious child. Bright, bright as a button. Well, you can't say that about yourself, but I've always read beyond my years. Well, not now, but presumably, but I read beyond my years. I remember coming home from school, I must have been about ten, and I said, Dad, I found the most brilliant author. And you absolutely have to read him. And he's called Somerset Morn. And my dad very sweetly said, I will certainly check that out. Thanks. You have said, I don't know where I came from, and children like familiarity. And I'm wondering, you know, there wasn't a lot of familiarity apart from your parents as your anchor, which of course is the most essential one.

Presenter11:28

What long-term impact do you think that has had on you? Well, I'm a cultural mongrel, I think they call it now. And I think it means that I am able to find comfort in almost any place that I settle down. I like to think I could live probably anywhere. What my father instilled in us is a very strong sense of our Danish roots. So wherever we were in the world, we celebrated Danish Christmas. We ate Danish food. And there was a strong sense of the homeland that carried with us. Tell me about your next piece of music, Sandy Tox. Well, it's a Danish song. Danish Christmas has been one of the steadying forces in my life always. We're not a religious family, but this is a very important festival for us. We celebrate on Christmas Eve. It's black tie. Everybody dresses up. We have real candles on the tree, accompanied by my mother's usual worry about where the fire extinguisher is. We turn all the lights out and we hold hands and we sing together as a family. And that night is hugely, hugely important to me. And even my children who've been brought up in England, we sing a Danish song.

Sandi Toksvig11:59

Uh

Sandi Toksvig12:31

B

Presenter13:02

Uh

Sandi Toksvig13:02

Uh

Presenter13:02

That was Gustav Winkler singing well, it's sort of we wish you the merriest of Christmas.

Sandi Toksvig13:08

He is

Presenter13:11

I've read and I feel like I've heard a lot about your father, and yet I feel like I've read and heard very little about your mother. Tell me more about your mother. I think it's partly because my father died a very long time ago. He died at 59, and I miss him very much. My mother's still hail and hearty. She could outrun me, frankly. She's in her 80s. She's extraordinary, and she's amazing. She's done.

Presenter13:33

I think it's two university degrees since my father passed away. She's very artistic and she was a BBC pioneer. She came as a secretary, which was the common practice in the early 1950s, and became one of the very first female studio managers. As well as studio managing, she would announce for the World Service in all sorts of languages. She would announce it Russian and other languages. And she spoke fluent French. She was on her way to becoming a brilliant broadcaster. And when she married my dad, my dad trained at the BBC because there was no training in Denmark. She had to stop her job because married women were not allowed to continue work at the BBC, which seems extraordinary. That's 1954. She got married to my dad. I think my mother, along with a lot of women of that generation, had fantastic talents which were untapped, and which she then, of course, assisted my father with his career and is still the person. If I've got a new novel out, she's the person I want to hear what she thinks about it. You were asked to leave a couple of schools in America. Yeah, that's bad.

Sandi Toksvig14:31

Yeah.

Presenter14:33

So what happened?

Presenter14:35

So this is a guy doesn't reflect well on me.

Presenter14:39

I found a lot of school boring. So I remember, for example, one particular school in the United States, the teacher, Mrs. Baxter, she said, this year class we're going to do Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger. And I went home and read it, prepared to come in and talk about it. I had no idea that Mrs. Baxter was planning for us to read it one word at a time all year. And I thought I'd go out of my mind. So I conceived a notion that I would come back when they'd read it. So I started playing a lot of what the Americans called hooky. I started not turning up in class. What did you do in those hours that you were playing hooky? I did several things. I hung about in the school theatre. I just loved the feeling of being backstage. And once or twice, and this is very, very bad, we lived in a suburb of New York City. I took the train up to New York on a matinee day and said to the ushers that my parents had already gone in, feigned tears, and then I just found an empty seat and watched a show. And there were three schools in a row where I didn't pay full attention. And so it was decided to send me to boarding school in the UK. I want you to tell me about your teacher, Regina, your drama teacher. Regina Frye. Oh, she was extraordinary. I mean, I've been blessed with a very small handful of teachers who.

Presenter15:51

Who probably changed things for me. And she was the person who first thought that maybe I could do something on the stage and thought that I could be funny. Let's have your fourth of the morning. Tell me what this is. Well, there's no question that my life in New York is one of the driving forces of why I wanted to go into show business. When I was very young, I saw the genius Ben Vereen do the musical Pippin. And there's an opening scene, which is just fantastic. It was a completely black stage with a single tiny falsepot light in the middle, and there was a red handkerchief. And I remember Ben Vereen went over and he pulled the red handkerchief up off the floor, and the entire Arabian Palace appeared up from the floor. And I still think that show business is magic, and the song that he sang is magic to do. And then I saw it recently with Pettina Miller playing the part. And I thought, wow, just have a woman in charge of the show, and it's even better.

Sandi Toksvig16:01

Well

Speaker 416:42

Doodly do, journey, journey to the spotic, exciting, mystic and exotic. Journey through our anecdotic review. We've got magic to do just for you. We've got miracle plays to play. We've got parts to perform, hearts to warm, kings and things to take by storm as we go along our way.

Presenter17:18

Magic to Do, sung by Katina Miller and the players of the new Broadway cast recording of the musical Pippin with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz. I need to tell our listeners, Sandy Toxvick, that during that piece of music you took off your glasses, rubbed your eyes, almost put your head on the desk and said, Am I being insufferable?

Presenter17:36

What are you worried about?

Speaker 217:36

Read about

Presenter17:38

It just seems um

Presenter17:39

Well, it seems very narcissistic for us to talk all this time about yourself, and there's so many more interesting things in the world.

Presenter17:46

And anyway, that's I've noticed your discomfort so far when I've asked you about being first in class or being clever, or did you find that easy? You don't you don't want to take on your own intellectual capacity in a public sense. Do you know what? It may be a very female thing. And that is a worry. So I was talking to a friend of mine who's very senior in news, and he said to me, Do you know, if I'm looking for an economics editor and I ring a woman journalist who's very capable, she'll say to me, I don't know if I know enough. I could ring the most junior man and he'll say, That'd be lovely, and he'll go out and buy a book on economics. And I think it is an issue. I do think that not many women put their hands up and go, Actually, I'm I am quite bright. And you won't find me doing it either.

Presenter18:31

It was 1972 then when uh Queen Margaretha of Denmark acceded the throne and Sandy Toxwig started boarding school in in uh in England. What do you remember of that that year and those early weeks at boarding school? It was hideous, um to be honest. Um I uh didn't know very much about British life and I didn't know anything about the shibboleths, the nuances of uh the culture, even though I had uh been here many times to visit my uh grandparents. And you would have had an American accent? I had a very strong American accent and I remember arriving at boarding school and Matron opened the door.

Sandi Toksvig18:55

At a

Presenter19:01

And I said, Hi, I'm Sandy. And she said, Oh, hello, I'm Matron. I said, Oh, what is that? Like your first name, your last name? How does that work there? And uh, the girls.

Presenter19:10

Charming as girls can be, because of my accent, immediately sent me to somewhere I'd never heard of, which is Coventry. And nobody spoke to me for the first six weeks that I was here. And it was it was devastating, actually. And we were not allowed the kind of freedoms that I had been used to. It is appreciably advantageous for a comedy writer and performer to be on the outside. It is not for a thirteen-year-old girl. How did you how did you turn things around? I changed my accent.

Presenter19:41

Uh on purpose. So when people think I sound posh, it's just pretend. Uh we it's this absolutely true story. We occasionally were allowed to watch film where we were watching Brief Encounter with the wonderful Celia Johnson.

Presenter19:52

And I thought, oh, I'll talk like that. And that's why I sound like I'm trapped in a black and white film. I couldn't possibly have a Scandinavian accent. We didn't live in Denmark long enough. But the American thing, that doesn't leave me. I still talk about getting gas instead of filling up with petrol. Let's have some more music, Sandy Toxvig. Tell me about your fists. So, there's a very strange thing when you're a gay woman. People are sort of binary in life. They think, well, that must mean you hate men.

Presenter20:17

And I love boys. I just don't want to share their body fluids. And if I was on a desert island and the entire Royal Navy, who I'm very fond of and have spent many a happy evening with, if the entire Royal Navy turned up, I would be thrilled. So I want to have this song to celebrate all the glorious boys in my life.

Speaker 420:36

Hallelujah, it's a waiting man.

Speaker 420:39

I'm bad.

Speaker 420:41

I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna let myself get

Speaker 420:45

I don't know that so many ways

Speaker 420:49

It's a rainy mess.

Speaker 420:52

Hallelujah, it's a waiting man.

Speaker 420:55

Every special man, tall, blind, gardenly, growth and just feel strong and fair.

Presenter21:07

I love that song. That was The Weather Girls and It's Raining Men. And Sandy Toxvig. These days the phrase coming out seems rather antiquated. But in the nineteen eighties, isn't it great? In the nineteen eighties to be gay or lesbian

Speaker 421:17

Yeah.

Speaker 421:18

It's not great.

Presenter21:23

Was considered something of an event and for many people something of a problem. How was it for you?

Presenter21:28

Um, honestly, I I went through some very dark times. And people say, When did you decide you were gay and you think when did you decide you were heterosexual? It's not a decision. Uh it's something you gradually begin to realize about yourself. Um and it's who I am. So I didn't have a problem. Society seemed to have a problem. None of my friends had a problem. My family didn't have a problem.

Presenter21:48

Did you indeed have to tell your family, or was it just I did, but they were not remotely surprised. And I have to say, I never forget my father. My father and I used to take the the whole family would take the ferry from England to Denmark. And my dad's favourite thing to do with me was the two of us would stand at the back of the boat and watch the wake. And I remember standing there with him after I had talked to him about being gay, and he put his arm round me and said, About this about this thing. I just want you to know it's made me love you more. And that's the only time he ever mentioned it. And it was because my father was a a believer in passion.

Sandi Toksvig21:51

I did, but they

Presenter22:24

And up until then I was twenty three I seemed to have shown no signs of passion, and he couldn't bear it, and he'd much rather I was passionate about a woman than not passionate at all.

Presenter22:35

When I started on television, I was 23. There were only three channels, and you became famous much more quickly and in a much bigger way than I think maybe you do now. So I'd been in the public eye a very, very long time. And my then partner and I had the three children. And of course, the tabloid press decided to take an interest. And I was about to be outed. I heard from somebody that I was about to be outed. And I'm not prepared to live my life under threat in any way. I think secrets are a cancer of the soul. So we made the decision to come out ourselves, which we did in an interview in the Sunday Times, and rather spoil it for the tabloid press.

Presenter23:12

Well, the Tableau press went a bit uh crazy um and uh whipped up a little bit of a media storm. Th they usually pass very quickly, but when you're in the middle of them they're frightening. Um and we got uh quite a lot of death threats uh at the time um and we had to go into hiding and we were in hiding for about uh two weeks and of course during that time I was terrified that I had

Presenter23:37

Done a terrible thing to my children, my three children. I would give my life for my three children. And it was truly, genuinely.

Presenter23:45

Frightening. Was there ever a moment professionally where somebody said to you I'm talking about in, you know, in in a broadcasting organization, or your agent or your publisher said, This is going to be very bad news for you? I was told my career was over uh when I decided to come out. Yeah. I was told I had to find something else to do.

Presenter24:01

Because I've no real skill set, I didn't know what that was going to be. Who told you? By all sorts of people.

Sandi Toksvig24:01

Because I've no real skill set.

Sandi Toksvig24:05

The biological

Presenter24:06

By people employing you. Yeah, and people who I respected within the business said there was no way I would be able to come back from it. Was there a period of time then when you didn't work and the contracts were not renewed? No, weirdly, that hasn't happened to me. And they'd all known, always. I've never been.

Presenter24:24

In the closet, as it were, with the people that I work with. I was rather surprised that people thought they didn't know.

Presenter24:31

Let's have some more music, Sandy Toxvig. We're on your sixth. Tell me about this.

Presenter24:36

Sometimes you have to pick yourself back up. And so I like a song that would make you feel.

Presenter24:44

Better, that gives you energy, that that makes you think it's okay, and even though at the moment it feels like I'm leading the parade on my own.

Presenter24:51

It's gonna be alright.

Speaker 424:52

Don't tell me not to live just sitting butter Life's candy and the sun's a ball of butter Don't bring around a cloud to rain on my b

Speaker 425:05

Tell me not to fly, I simply got to. If someone takes a spill, it's me and not you. Who told you you're allowed to rain on my-

Speaker 425:14

How much

Speaker 425:17

Now, I'll be worse.

Speaker 425:22

Up and down.

Speaker 425:26

So, at least I didn't fake it. Hat so, I guess I didn't make it.

Presenter25:32

Barbara Streisand with Don't Rain on My Parade from the original soundtrack recording of the film Funny Girl with lyrics by Bob Merrill, the music by Jules Stein, and the musical director there was Herbert Ross. So, Sandy Toxwig, you were part of Footlights at Cambridge. Emma Thompson, Tony Slattery, Hugh Laurie, among others, were some of your contemporaries. As I understand it, you wrote and performed the first one-woman show there. Tell me what the sensation is as you stand on stage of making an audience laugh. It is just.

Presenter26:05

Joyous because, in fact, it was the first all-female review. It was Emma Thompson and Jan Ravens and myself, and Hilary Dugood very sadly has passed away. And it was the very first time that the women at Footlights had done their own show. Because we were fed up with pretty much saying the doctor will see you now. Honestly, that's the stuff we got. You stand on the stage.

Sandi Toksvig26:18

Yeah.

Presenter26:27

And having a laugh come at you is like having the most glorious wave approaching you. And you can play with it. And if you know that the thing you've just said is not as funny as the next thing you're going to say, it's like having a wonderful little secret. And what you need to do is to hit the wave as it's coming in at exactly the right moment, and it will build to something even bigger. And it's the most fun. I don't know, it's like playing a sport with somebody.

Presenter26:54

On a good night, it's like flying. On a good night...

Presenter26:58

You feel like you can take the audience off somewhere and to have a thousand people holding their sides because they're laughing so much. The endorphins in the room are fantastic and you know in that moment they've forgotten about their mortgage or their health worries. It's good for us and to hear an a live audience rocking with laughter. I always say that when I did the news quiz, the people who had the best time was the audience in the actual radio theatre because there was plenty of stuff that didn't get broadcast that was.

Presenter27:26

Eye-wateringly funny, but not broadcastable. You became very ill at university, and you were close to death. It was a very serious illness.

Sandi Toksvig27:33

See you.

Presenter27:35

Those things can be life-changing for people. Was it very important for you? Was it a significant moment after you had recovered your health? Yeah, I'm sure. It was a very difficult time. I went down to five and a half stone. I was extremely ill. And there was a moment when I didn't think I was going to make it. And I think you decide then, maybe, to come back fighting. And that is certainly what I've tried to do.

Presenter28:00

Let's have some more music, Sandy Toxvick. We're already on your seven steps. Oh, so good. This is great. Every year I take part in the Women of the World Festival and I give a concert where I gather the world's only all female orchestra, and it's a fantastic sight. And I try and seek out, with the help of my great friend Gillian Moore,

Sandi Toksvig28:01

So

Sandi Toksvig28:03

Oh, that's okay.

Speaker 428:04

Uh

Sandi Toksvig28:04

This is great

Presenter28:16

Pieces of music by women composers that have been overlooked. Florence Price so far is my absolute favourite. In 1933, she became the very first African-American woman to have a full symphony played by a classical orchestra, the Chicago Symphony. After that, I have to say, her life did not do so well. She ended up playing the organ to silent movies. I think if you don't like classical music, you will not be able to help yourself being infected by this glorious music.

Presenter29:46

That was part of the third movement of Florence Price's Symphony in E minor, performed there by the new black music repochie ensemble, conducted by Leslie B. Dunner. Sandy Toxic, you are only two years shy of the age that your father was when he died suddenly at fifty nine. You're fifty seven.

Sandi Toksvig30:00

Yeah.

Presenter30:03

Um it is very clear from everything you said this morning. You are a woman who clearly wants to leave a mark. Whenever you happen to shuffle off this mortal coil, what do you want your legacy to be?

Sandi Toksvig30:11

What

Presenter30:16

Gosh, I don't know. And I worry about'cause, you know, it's only two years away. I think about it, of course. I miss my dad every day. He was the single most important influence in my life. But

Presenter30:28

I hope people will think that I that I had an energy about me and a joy of life that never left me.

Presenter30:34

Is he with you? Does he walk with you through your life? Is he present? Yes, absolutely. So many things that he said to me, um so in terms of writing I always think about him. He always said, Writing is like fishing. You need first you need to decide what fish you want to catch.

Sandi Toksvig30:37

Yeah.

Presenter30:48

Then you need to catch it, and then you need to fillet it until you serve only the very best bit of the fish. And so it's not just the writing, it's the editing, and I always think as I sit down to to edit whatever it is I'm working on, that I am filleting a fine fish for my father.

Presenter31:04

Well, find fish and all that. I I should really ask you about on the desert island, how you'll cope. I was going to ask you, it's not a case Sandy talks figure of will you build a shelter, it's how many wings it'll have and how long it'll take you, I would imagine. This is my only worry, is that the rescuers will turn up and I'll go, I have not finished the spare room.

Sandi Toksvig31:14

This is my

Presenter31:21

Stuff to do, people.

Presenter31:24

Because you're incredibly practical, I'm hugely practical, and I love DIY. I love building things, I like problem solving, I will have hot and cold running water. I'm really not worried about it at all. Not in the slightest. Tell me about your eighth disc then. I have some of the best female friends. If I'm in trouble, I have an extraordinary group that I can call on who I love beyond all measure. And I did a show some years ago with Bonnie Langford and the glorious Dilly Keene. Dilly and I wrote the show together. It was called Big Night Out at the Little Sands Picture Palace. And it's Bonnie singing a song. The show has an element in it about domestic violence, so it very much plays into all my concerns about women whose lives, frankly, have not turned out as they should.

Sandi Toksvig31:25

I'm a huge

Speaker 432:07

Such modest dreams

Speaker 432:10

So unambitious

Speaker 432:13

And so restrained

Speaker 432:19

Such fragile hopes

Speaker 432:22

Small yet delicious.

Speaker 432:26

and quite content.

Speaker 432:32

Should one demand the stars and moon and earth?

Speaker 432:40

Only to find the pittance.

Speaker 432:45

One is woo.

Presenter32:47

That was Bonnie Langford singing Such Modest Dreams, written by Dilly Keene. It's time now, Sandy Toxwig, to give you the books. I will give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and tell me what you're going to take along with those. Well, I'd like the Ashley Book of Knots, which I took with me when I made a big sailing trip round the UK for three months. I mean, pretty much anything that you need can be made with rope and skill. I'll give you that and a luxury. What would you take as well? So I'd like an endless supply of the Daily Mail. So I've been thinking about this. Years ago, the Emmanuels who made Princess Diana's wedding dress made me a wedding dress out of newspaper.

Sandi Toksvig33:10

I'll give you that.

Sandi Toksvig33:11

Yeah.

Sandi Toksvig33:18

Made me

Presenter33:21

It's fantastic for clothing. It's terrific for insulation. I could insulate the walls of my new uh condominium that I'm building. You can sleep on it. I'm also hopeless at celebrity culture, so uh this would give me a chance to catch up. And at some point I'm going to need to go to the loo.

Presenter33:35

It's yours then, a lifetime supply of the Daily Mail it is. And which of these eight discs would you save from the waves? It's gonna have to be It's Raining Men. I'm gonna be the bit l you can't come with me, can does anybody ever ask for you to come? Yes, and I can't. You can't. Oh, okay. Um, I think it's Raining Men, because at some point I'm gonna get a bit low. I will miss my wife.

Presenter33:56

More than I can say, and my wonderful children. So the only answer is to disco. It's your Sandy Toxic. Thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Do you know it wasn't as bad as I thought?

Presenter34:48

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter34:51

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4