Jo Malone

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the businesswoman Joe Malone.

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If her name automatically conjures the citrusy scent of lime, basil, and mandarin, or the spicy notes of amber and lavender, then you are doubtless one of the customers who flock into the eponymous stores to buy the fragrances, candles, and skincare that have made her a household name.

Presenter0:54

Aged just nine, she would grind sandalwood and strain juniper at the kitchen table. Seventeen years later, a who's who of fashionable London flocked to her discreet little salon in Chelsea, to be massaged with bespoke oils and ungents. Later still she took the brand International, and by the end of the nineties fragrance had made her fortune. She sold her business to the beauty behamoth Estee Lauder.

Presenter1:19

If this all sounds like a fragrant little fairy tale crisply wrapped in a signature black grograin bow, it isn't. Severely dyslexic, she left school at fourteen. Her dad was a talented painter, but a chronic gambler, too, and home life was often a pretty hand to mouth existence.

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Much later, and at a time in her life when she should have been enjoying her success, not to mention her toddler son,

Presenter1:42

She was diagnosed with a very aggressive form of breast cancer.

Presenter1:46

Finally, fully recovered, she decided to start again from scratch. She says I love sharing my story, and I'm not frightened of people seeing the cracks as well as the strengths. I think the things that are sad and difficult are just as important. And no doubt, Joe Malone, we might come to a few of the cracks later. But in terms of strengths One of your obvious talents is you have a well, the French call it the naz, you have the nose. Are you I mean, how important a part do scents play in your life? Are you always sort of on the on the sniff? I think'cause I'm dyslexic, my nose is like my paintbrush and it's my means of communication. So I look at colour in fragrance. I look at

Presenter2:26

Everything revolves back to these little ingredients that are in my head, and I piece together. And it's a game I think I play mentally with myself, but my nose is the thing that governs all my emotions, without a doubt. So often, when I'm reading about my guests before I talk to them, I read something I think that can't really be true, can it? With you, it happened to be that you were in a hotel once and you smelled that your husband had arrived. Is that true? That is absolutely true. Right, just take me through that. I was in New York City. I'd been on a long trip, and he had flown in, and I walked in.

Speaker 42:50

Yeah.

Jo Malone2:50

Yeah.

Jo Malone2:53

Yeah.

Presenter2:58

And I could smell Amber Lavender. I could smell the fragrance I'd created for him. So I looked at James, who was there, and I said, Gary's here. And he said, no, he's not. It was all a big surprise. And I went, yes, he is. And I got into the lift and I could smell him again. And then I got up to the room, and sure enough, he was there. So absolutely true. How have you gone about choosing your music today then? What were the basis of the choices? They're all songs that I would absolutely want on a desert island. And I feel these songs and the words within a lot of them, they're emotions of me, parts of my life, always with a positive ending though.

Presenter3:37

Tell me about the first one then, Joe Malone. What are we going to hear? We're going to hear Rock the Boat by Hughes Corporation, one of the very first records I bought as a young child. I used to dance in my bedroom to this. And I think this is depicts my personality. I am someone that will always get in a boat and rock it.

Speaker 43:54

So I'd like to know when

Speaker 43:56

You got the notion Said I'd like to know when You got the notion

Speaker 44:03

Rock the boat, I don't rock the boat, baby Rock the boat, I don't jet the boat over Rock the boat, I don't rock the boat, baby

Speaker 44:17

Ever since our boy Jeff Love began

Speaker 44:21

Yeah.

Presenter4:21

Your touches thrill me like the rush of the wind

Presenter4:25

Hughes Corporation and Rock the Boat. So, Joe Malone's scent so often captures memory. That's what it seems to be tied up for most of us with. What was the sm the fir is there a first smell that you can remember?

Speaker 44:32

Uh

Presenter4:37

I can remember the fragrance my mum wore. She wore Juravienne by Wirth and Margrife by Carvin. My father wore Au Sauvage, and he would have these lovely white crisp shirts, and the collar always smelt of Christendur Au Sauvage. Your dad was a colourful character. He was. He was a

Jo Malone4:42

Bye.

Presenter4:56

A talented watercolourist, but also a gambler. Um tell tell me more about him. He was part of the magic circle, so he's a magician.

Presenter5:04

He was a brilliant, brilliant watercolourist and he was a huge gambler. On a Saturday my jobs were to be the magician's assistant so I knew how white rabbits appeared out of hats and I would sell the paintings with him in the markets on a Saturday. You know we would get to the market and he didn't want to sell his paintings and I knew my mum had said if you come home and there's no money there's nothing to eat. So it were I think I was probably older than him.

Jo Malone5:32

And came

Presenter5:33

even at the age of eight.

Presenter5:36

You know what, you can't change who people are. You have to love them where they are and who they are. And I loved my dad and my mum for who they were. And you say you felt older than him. Were you conscious that he was somebody who didn't take to responsibility well and that you you were the one who sort of had to be responsible? I wouldn't just say my dad. I had two unbelievably creative talented parents.

Jo Malone5:46

Conscious.

Presenter5:58

But both of them, I think, just lived in a different time and place, to to say the least, and she was very sick for a big part of my childhood.

Presenter6:08

She had kind of anxiety issues and things, and then she had um a blood disorder as well, when I was very, very tiny. She was a strong woman. She used to work incredibly hard.

Jo Malone6:10

Distant.

Presenter6:18

You know, we were loved as children, just you know, oodles and oodles.

Presenter6:24

But the actual practicalities of running I mean, I was the one that would change all the bed sheets, I was the one that had to clean the house, I was the one that had to make sure the uniform was done, and she was off work and he was he'd sometimes be working and he'd sometimes be travelling off and doing other things.

Presenter6:40

But I accepted it. Your mother, when she was working, worked for a woman who styled herself what was it, Countess Levibati? Countess Levibati. Tell me about Countess Levibi. Oh, I loved her. She was six foot tall, blonde, blonde hair, white fishnet tights, blood-red lipstick. She was like a storybook brought to life. And I would say she was my first really best friend. And she was in her 80s, and I was a very, very little girl. And my mum worked with her in Montague Mansions in West One. They had an apartment. And in the apartment was this white room.

Jo Malone6:49

Yeah.

Presenter7:15

Which was just a laboratory with big glass jars full of things. And I would go with my mum on holidays and weekends when mum was working, and I would sit in the corner of this room and watch her. And while my mum was off working and doing faces, I would watch this woman. And I, because I'm dyslexic, I would memorize exactly what she did. And one day she said to me, Do you think you can make this slippery old mask? And I said, I know exactly how to make it. And mixed it and gave it to her. And she said, perfect. And she said to me, Remember, Joe, if you can't do something perfectly, don't bother doing it at all. Joe Malone, tell me about your second piece of music then, Disc Two. What's this? This is Live Like Horses by Elton John and Pavarotti. Every year I go to Montana to ride horses. You ride out on your horse all day, and as the sun's setting, you stand on a mountainside.

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and two hundred horses. They just run up to the mountain for the evening.

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And it's a moment that every time when I watch it says, I want to live my life like that. I love to have that feeling at the end of the day when you sit down and you pour yourself a glass of wine.

Presenter8:20

And you go, I did it today.

Speaker 48:24

I step down two.

Speaker 48:27

The moving stairs

Speaker 48:31

Before I could tie my shoes

Speaker 48:35

Right a hop out the finger

Speaker 48:38

Operana gay

Speaker 48:41

Who lived and died?

Jo Malone8:44

The blues La promesano fuquiar Sera solo impressime

Presenter8:54

Yeah.

Presenter8:59

Live Like Horses, Elton John singing with Luciano Pavarosi, and you were lost in the music during that Joe Malone. It it definitely obviously means something really quite deep to you. When did you uh when were you diagnosed as being dyslexic?

Jo Malone9:04

But they definitely have

Presenter9:12

Not for a long time, not for a really long time at school. So I couldn't tell my left from my right. I still can't tell from my left from my right actually. And I couldn't tell the time until I was about 13, 14. And even now, if somebody asks me the time and I look at a clock, it just takes me a few seconds to register where it is. So it wasn't really diagnosed, and I really, really struggled, which is why I came out of school with no qualifications at all. You were 14 then? I was about 14. It's really funny.

Jo Malone9:37

I was about four.

Presenter9:41

I thought I'd left school at thirteen fourteen, and one night I had this dream.

Presenter9:46

And I was dri I dreamt I was in a common room drinking a cup of coffee, and I woke up from this dream.

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And I thought, that was real. That happened to me. And what I just, for some reason, I blocked a whole lot of my life out. I don't think I was desperately unhappy, but I don't think it was a very happy time of my life either. I felt very.

Presenter10:06

When I'm not in control of things, I tend to block them out. Was that round about the time that your father left your mother, then?

Presenter10:13

Uh he left several times. City. Yeah, he left several times, so whatever time that was, and then she left. Yeah, she and she took me and n my sister with her.

Jo Malone10:16

Yeah.

Presenter10:23

And it was just, yeah, it was an unhappy time. Not so much that it destroyed my life, but I think I just shut the door and thought, you know what, that didn't happen. Dyslexia or not, you managed to read this book called Harry's Cosmeticology. And when I looked at it, I thought, is that a J.K. Rowling title? That sounds absolutely extraordinary. Yeah, it is. And it's like a big doorstep kind of book. Because I can read, but it just takes me a long time to do it. But all the things that I had learnt, so I'd watched my mum in the kitchen.

Presenter10:56

I'd watched Madame Lubati do that, and then I sat with this book and managed to figure out that basically cosmetics are either oil into water or water into oil. I mean that's the long and short of it. And it's what you add in between that makes them either luxury or not. And did you have an idea of what you did you think, well I'd I'd like to I'd like to be a beautician? Was there something formulating in your head by this stage? I wish, no, I don't think I've ever lived my life like that.

Presenter11:23

I do remember sitting in my bedroom and looking out the window and thinking, I don't want to live my life like this. I want to get myself out of here. I wanted to be self sufficient even from a very, very, very young age. Let's have your third disc then. Tell me about this.

Presenter11:40

Um All of Me by John Legend. Why have you chosen this one? I'm married to the most incredible man in the world, Gary. I've been married to him for twenty nine years, and he and I have built businesses together, traveled, had amazing adventures.

Presenter11:57

And eighteen months ago, he fell desperately ill with something called acute adrenal failure and very, very nearly died. And I could feel this man slipping through my fingers, and there was nothing I could do.

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And there was an incredible doctor who saved his life. And Gary had eight months crawling back to life, and he plays the guitar. And one afternoon

Presenter12:23

I came in to the house and he was sitting on the terrace and he hadn't played his guitar for a very long time and he was playing this song.

Speaker 412:31

Cause all of me loves all of you Love your curves and all your edges

Speaker 412:42

All your perfect imperfections, give your to me, I give my all to you, you're my end and my beginning.

Speaker 412:57

Even when I lose, I'm winning. Cause I give you

Presenter13:02

That was John Legend and all of me and really extraordinary memories for you, Joe Malone, of seeing your husband sitting on the balcony playing that and you knew that he was well on the roads to recovery from a very serious illness. A shot of Thai lime over mango is one of your sounds like a cocktail, doesn't it? But it's one of your bath oils. Yes. Tell me about the very first one you made. It was it what was it nutmeg and ginger, your first one? I had a little a little tiny little flat in Chelsea where I rented, which had no furniture in it, no curtains. And I had one massage bed where the elite of London would just walk up three flights of stairs and

Speaker 413:09

And playing that and you

Jo Malone13:12

Mm.

Jo Malone13:17

Is one of you

Jo Malone13:26

Yeah.

Presenter13:40

I would treat their faces with those ice creams that I taught myself to make. Would you take me through your client list? No. No, I know, I knew that was going to get me nowhere. But we're talking here I mean, uh, you know, I we're talking here about royals, society, ladies, we're t all of those people.

Jo Malone13:46

No, I knew that

Jo Malone13:48

But which

Jo Malone13:53

Leave.

Jo Malone13:54

Yeah.

Presenter13:55

And one of these rather swanky clients decides that she's throwing a grand ball or a dinner party or something anyway, an event for a hundred people, and she wants to leave, as a little memento of the evening, to give her guests to take away with them, little bottles of this oil that you use to massage her.

Jo Malone14:07

Yesterday.

Presenter14:12

Is it fair to say that was a a sort of crucial turning point? That was the crossroads. That was where my feet left the ground for a very long time. Right. Because suddenly, everybody wanted to buy this product.

Presenter14:28

And there would be you know, I'd have people calling with their private jet saying, We're here for forty eight hours. Can we have forty bottles? And I was in a little kitchen that was no bigger than your arms spread out. My arms spreading out with three little plastic jugs. I've still got those three plastic jugs, by the way.

Jo Malone14:40

Your arms spread.

Presenter14:46

But what happened was it suddenly just, it was just, it just took off. How were you getting labels printed? I mean, that must have been suddenly a big operation, was it? Pronai print.

Presenter14:57

On sheets.

Presenter14:58

I covered them all over in cellophane. And I mean, when I look at it now, I think, oh my goodness, how on earth? You were doing it, as you say, out of sort of three plastic jugs in your kitchen. At what point did you think, actually, this is a gore? We're going to go up a gear? I didn't really. I think that after that first Christmas of those little bathrolls going out, it just it we couldn't do it.

Jo Malone15:07

Yeah.

Speaker 415:07

Uh

Jo Malone15:07

Yeah.

Presenter15:19

All by ourselves. And we were still, you know, we still had no children or anything like that. So it was just he and I. And he said to me, Look, we need a shop. What about we give ourselves the next year? I leave my job. And if it doesn't work out, then I'll go back and find myself a job in the building industry. But let's just see. And I think a lot of people look at the success of this business as just me. What they don't see is

Presenter15:44

Gary was the was the physical backbone to everything. He was the one that got in the van and drove round for forty eight hours round the country delivering all the bottles and the oils wherever they needed to be. He was the one that found the factories and sat in the meetings while I said, That's not how you do it. It doesn't smell right.

Presenter16:03

And these poor men looking at me saying, Well, can you just give us the formulation? And all the formulations were in my head. But Gary was the one that first found the first shot, and he was the one that physically made all the bits happen. Let's have some more music, Joe Malone. Tell me about your fourth. What are we going to play now? We're going to play Price Tag by Jesse J. I want you to tell our listeners what your son said to you when you made this choice. Tell me what Josh said. Well, I love this song because it's a dancey song, and I was going through all the songs, and Josh said to me,

Jo Malone16:25

I

Jo Malone16:29

Tell me what Josh said.

Presenter16:37

Num.

Presenter16:38

Can't have price tag with the price of your candles.

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But if you listen to the words, it's not about price tag josh. It's about creativity. And this song really speaks to me.

Speaker 416:51

Seems like everybody's got a price. I wonder how they sleep at night. When the sale comes first and the truth comes second, just stop for a minute and smile. Why is everybody so serious? Acting so damn mysterious. Got shades on your eyes and your heels so high. That you can't even have a good time. Everybody look to the left.

Speaker 417:16

Everybody look to their rights. Can you feel that gay? We're paying with love tonight. It's not about the money, money, money. We don't need your money.

Presenter17:26

That was Jesse Jay and Price Tag. Let's talk about your very first little beautiful shop in Chelsea. Is it true that somebody walked into that store on the first day and said they would offer you a million quid for the business? It is. It is true. He came in with a big fat cigar and it was just after a really big piece in the Financial Times and British Vogue.

Presenter17:45

And he said

Presenter17:47

I've been instructed by somebody to come and offer you a million pounds, but to sell today.

Presenter17:51

And I remember walking up Wharton Street thinking, I've worked really hard to open. And I was suddenly, I'd fallen in love with being a shopkeeper. And I said, thank you very much, but no, thank you. And I never saw him again. Along with creating these fragrances and oils and creams and so on, it seems to me part of the experience in those days of going into the little Joe Malone store was that people would walk out with this beautifully tied, it was a black.

Speaker 418:13

People would

Presenter18:16

Still is, grow grain bow at the top of it, black tissue paper, a lovely heavy sort of cream bag to put their goods in. The box that had the black outline.

Speaker 318:16

Yeah.

Speaker 418:16

Still a

Presenter18:25

Where did that idea come from? I was sitting with a great friend called Isabella Tedgwee.

Presenter18:30

in the little apartment that I worked in and I'd put a little box together and I still had the little sticky labels going over everything.

Presenter18:37

And she said, let me help you sort of pull this together. Do you know what? I love that woman. Without her, the packaging probably would never have been what it is today. And it is iconic. Yes, would you explain that the packaging is as much of the deal as whatever people are spending? I think it's always as much of the deal. It's the love letter that wraps something. You know, you want to feel.

Jo Malone18:52

I think it's always

Jo Malone18:53

Yeah.

Presenter18:58

Pride when you walk out and hold a bag. At the end of the nineteen nineties, then, Estee Lauder, that enormous cosmetics company, came knocking at your door. They weren't offering you a million pounds, as far as I gather. But you know what? Whatever I read, and God knows I've tried hard, Joe, I can't work out what they did offer you. Are you going to take it?

Speaker 419:09

It's like

Speaker 419:14

Yeah.

Jo Malone19:14

Are you going to tell me?

Presenter19:19

No, I'm not. But

Presenter19:21

It made me very comfortable in my life. I didn't have to worry about could I afford Chinese food at the end of the week again. But when we sold our business, we were still sleeping on a sofa bed. Can you believe it?

Presenter19:33

And when we bought our first bed I remember that night.

Presenter19:36

Climbing into bed, and Gary went to me, Oh, so this is what it feels like.

Presenter19:41

have to put it away or roll it up. Typical of those sort of deals, you stayed on as I think was creative director, was that your title? How difficult was it to walk into your business each day and to know that you weren't really in charge?

Jo Malone19:50

And you're tight.

Presenter19:57

I was, and I felt I was, and yeah, I really did. And for.

Jo Malone19:59

Yeah.

Presenter20:01

You know, those those years I of

Presenter20:04

of staying as founder and creative director, I was in charge. You know, no one could change a ribbon, no one could create a fragrance but me, unless my little tick was and I worked with some incredible people. I never forget the first moment with an amazing man called Joe Gubenek, who helped create Clinique.

Presenter20:23

And sitting with

Presenter20:24

bunts and burners and jars and all of the magical things that go with it. And he would say to me, Well, how much vitamin E oil? and I went, I don't know, until it feels right and I saw him put his head in his hands, lovely Joe And I don't regret that decision for a second.

Presenter20:41

Joe Malone, tell me about your next piece of music then. We're we're on your fifth. Why have you chosen this?

Presenter20:45

This is a song called Fix You by Cole Play. I was thirty seven years old when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and a very, very aggressive form. And I was told that

Presenter20:58

I should get my life in order, because they didn't know how long.

Presenter21:02

And I remember flying to New York and meeting a man called Doctor Larry Norton, and for the next year

Presenter21:08

I put my life in his hands, and I'd like to dedicate this song to him and his team and all the amazing people across this world that fix people who are in that position. And this is for you, Larry, and I love you very, very much because you fixed me. Thank you.

Speaker 421:29

Lights will die.

Speaker 421:31

I cheer home.

Speaker 421:36

And ignite your bones, and I will try.

Speaker 421:46

A fiction.

Presenter21:56

That was Cold Play and Fix You and dedicated by you, Joe Malone, to Dr Larry Norton and his team. How did you end up at Sloan Catching? I mean, given that you were living in London, you're a Londoner, presumably that was where you were diagnosed. How did it happen? I came home that night. It was the night of the Serpentine party. And I'd gone. Which is a big social event. And I was dressed, ready to go to the party, and I thought the lump.

Jo Malone22:13

Which is a big social event.

Presenter22:19

in my breast was a cyst, and it wasn't. And I remember coming home that night knowing that I had a very, very aggressive form of breast cancer, and I picked up the phone and spoke to the amazing Evelyn Lauder, who was climbing a mountain at the time, and she found a phone and called me.

Presenter22:38

And I said, I've got cancer, Evelyn and she said, Honey, remember you make lemonade from lemons and I was on a plane to New York within twenty four hours.

Presenter22:49

If you hadn't had such

Presenter22:53

Stellar, well-connected support. I mean, that was an incredible opportunity that you were given because of your friends and colleagues at work.

Jo Malone22:58

That you would

Jo Malone23:00

Yeah.

Presenter23:01

Um do you think you would be here today? Yes. Do you? Yes, I do. Yeah I do.

Presenter23:07

I would have found another way.

Presenter23:10

Um I don't know how, but I would have done.

Presenter23:13

You were thirty-seven when you were diagnosed, as you said, and at that stage Josh, your son, would have been, what, about two years old? Yeah.

Presenter23:21

So in those formative years, uh, you know, he all he knew was mummy coming and going and mummy not feeling well, and mummy being very tired, and mummy being sick a lot, and

Jo Malone23:25

It was my

Presenter23:30

You know, how did how did you cope with all of that?

Jo Malone23:32

How about

Presenter23:33

I felt very nauseous. When I was pregnant I had that awful thing of hyperemesis as well. Hyperemesis is when you're so sick you have to be sort of admitted to hospital and put on a trip, is it? I was seven stone two when I had Josh. I couldn't hold anything down at all. And chemotherapy had a very similar effect.

Jo Malone23:43

My

Presenter23:50

So I lost a lot of weight. I obviously lost all my hair. And I just felt I was, I'd lost half my body as well. I felt like I was stripped.

Presenter23:58

of this person of who I was. I didn't know who I was any more.

Presenter24:02

And I was just going through the day-to-day routine, and I couldn't create fragrance. And at the time we were creating a basil collection of candles and you know what, even if I smell that smell today, it takes me back in a second to what it felt like. I can't go anywhere near those smells. And I just couldn't do it. I could not create fragrance. And I had this continual metallic taste and metallic smell in my nose. And it was the first time in my life that I wasn't able to smell.

Presenter24:36

Let's have some more music, Joe Malone. Um tell me about your sixth choice of the morning. Why why are we gonna hear this?

Presenter24:42

I heard this song quite a while ago now by Miley Cyrus The Climb. And as an entrepreneur, I know what it is to climb a mountain. And this song is the voice of every entrepreneur I know that as they're climbing, there are moments where you want to quit and give in. And my advice is stand still, the storm pass, and carry on and get to your destination.

Speaker 325:05

There's always gonna be another mountain. I'm always gonna wanna make it move. Always gonna be an uphill battle. Sometimes I'm gonna have to lose. Ain't about how fast I get there. Ain't about what's waiting on the other side.

Speaker 325:29

It's the clock

Presenter25:35

That was Mighty Cyrus with The Climb, and that was dedicated by you, Joe Malone, to all of Britain's entrepreneurs, of whom of course you are one. Following your recovery then, you came to the conclusion

Jo Malone25:40

Yeah.

Presenter25:45

In two thousand six, that it was time for you to part company with Este Lodge. As you say, it had been a very happy union, and they let you get almost running your company, but but at the time felt right for you.

Jo Malone25:51

Happy union and they let you

Presenter25:56

As part of your deal with this, dear Lauder, it's a very common thing when people are bought out of the companies they've created. It's something called a non-competition clause, where you are not, with all your skills and creativity and the thing that's built your business, when somebody buys it, you're not then allowed to go and set up Joan Malone Mark II a couple of doors down. I'm still not. Yes, I'll say that. You're still not.

Jo Malone26:00

Yeah.

Jo Malone26:01

The trade

Jo Malone26:06

Utility.

Jo Malone26:14

Yes, absolutely.

Presenter26:16

As far as I understand it, the clause that you were subject to meant that you could have nothing to do with the cosmetics industry in general. So you couldn't create a lip gloss, you couldn't create an eye cream, you couldn't do anything like that. For somebody whose whole life had been about that, how on earth did you have to do that? That's my one regret. Yes. Actually, five years as well, it was a long, long time. Five years, I wasn't allowed to endorse anything. I wasn't.

Jo Malone26:26

Mm-hmm.

Jo Malone26:32

That's my one regret.

Presenter26:40

And I got to the point where I couldn't even walk through a cosmetic floor, not because I was prevented, but the emotional torment I would put myself through.

Presenter26:48

And, you know, Kirstie, I'm not good at a lot of things in life. I can't drive, I can't swim.

Presenter26:54

I can't tell the time properly all the time, but I can create fragrance. And I got to the point, I was making a TV show with BBC One called High Street Dreams. Which was all about entrepreneurs. Which was all about entrepreneurs, exactly. And I was standing in a garden shed filling chili sauce into bottles. And life just said to me, It's time to go back and try again. But I'd lived through those five years. Those five years, then, what were you?

Jo Malone27:04

Which is all about entrepreneurs.

Presenter27:18

Were you grouchy? Were you getting at Gary? Were you walking jogging round the park and swearing at people's dogs? I mean, what what was happening? He played his guitar a lot. I walked the dog a lot and I moaned a lot and I was pretty horrible to be around, I know that.

Jo Malone27:20

Yeah.

Presenter27:34

I was miserable because I had no purpose. I actually wrote myself a C V.

Presenter27:39

To try and get myself a job, I would have done anything. I would have gone and worked in a supermarket. I would have done anything to do a day's work. And I looked at my CV and it had no qualifications, hobbies, making fragrance, built a global brand, and that was it. And it was like, oh no, I can't send this to anyone. Let's talk about building a global brand because you can't walk down any high street, walk through any airport or any shopping centre without seeing the Joe Malone stores. And they're not yours anymore. And you built them from scratch. You gave birth to them. What does that feel like when you pass them? It's a question I'm asked all the time. And this is how I feel. You have two children who you love equally. Joe Malone was who I was as a young woman.

Jo Malone28:09

Yeah.

Jo Malone28:14

Uh

Presenter28:22

Joe Loves is your brand. Joe Loves is who I am.

Jo Malone28:23

Features your new brand Joe Loves

Presenter28:26

Now. And if I hadn't built Joe Malone and I hadn't sold it, I wouldn't be here right now living this unbelievable, creative, entrepreneurial journey. I once heard somebody say that building a brand is pretty easy. It's just the first two hundred years that are hard.

Presenter28:45

What advice would you have?

Presenter28:47

What advice would you give to entrepreneurs who are listening to Dave? It's no one's responsibility but yours to make your business work.

Presenter28:55

Surround yourself with people that believe you can, not you can't.

Presenter29:00

And you need to fail as well as succeed. Great business people are not born, they're made. And not all of us are going to go on and build global brands. You might be a business that employs two people. Make sure those two people are happy.

Presenter29:16

Let's have some more music, Joe Malone. We're on your seventh. Ah, how appropriate. Yes, tell me about this then. Don't Stop Me Now by Queen. I was made just recently an ambassador for creativity to represent our country. And I'm not going to listen to everyone that tells me I can't. I'm going to be that fast car, that rocket, and that moment that changes the world again.

Jo Malone29:20

Yes, tell me about it.

Speaker 429:39

I'm a shooting star leaping through the sky like a tiger Defying the laws of gravity I'm a racing car passing by like Lady Goddiver I'm gonna go, go, go There's no stopping me I'm flying through the sky 200 degrees, you're smiling Call me Mr. Fahrenheit I'm traveling at the speed of light And wanna make a supersonic man out of you

Presenter30:12

That was Quinn and Don't Stop Me Now. So, Joe Malone, having gone through the very

Presenter30:19

difficult circumstances of being so ill and being diagnosed with that very aggressive form of breast cancer at just thirty seven. When you celebrate each birthday or each New Year,

Jo Malone30:29

Are you

Presenter30:31

Does it bring, do you think, an added piquancy to that?

Presenter30:36

I just I love every day. It's about I like Friday night for us in our home is is Friday night dinner. And when I get to Friday night and I decorate the whole house in those flowers and the candles are lit, I celebrate life every Friday. And I think so often in life we fight so hard for what we want and we forget to take it and enjoy the moment and say, well done.

Presenter31:01

I'm still here. Lying on the beach, being on the beach, doing whatever you'll do on the beach of this little desert island that I'm about to send you to then.

Jo Malone31:01

I'm still

Presenter31:09

I can't imagine it won't I mean, it must surely be somewhere that will inspire you. Will you be moved to make fragrances, do you think? I don't know. Because I don't choose for creativity. I wait for it to to happen to me. I would hope so with every you know, every

Jo Malone31:20

So how

Jo Malone31:22

I would hope so with

Presenter31:25

Cell of my body, but she'll choose to knock on my door when she does.

Presenter31:29

Let's have your final piece of music, Johnny. What are we going to hear now? The famous Whitney Houston One Moment in Time. I love this song so much. It's my wish for my life in twenty fifteen.

Presenter31:41

I want to cross that finishing line, rather like this people did in the Olympics, when she sang this song, I want that gold medal, I want to do it again.

Speaker 431:54

And sometimes I will be a lovely

Presenter32:22

That was Whitney Houston and one moment in time. And in slow-mo, you were just going across the finish line there, Joe Malone, with your grasping at your gold medal. We're going to give you the books then. I give you a copy of the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take one other book to this island. What's your book going to be? It's a book called The Hundred Foot Journey by Richard Murray. Right, that's yours then. And a luxury, too. Chanel Liplos.

Presenter32:49

Good to know you got your priorities right. Right. That's yours then.

Jo Malone32:50

Right. That's yours then.

Presenter32:52

And finally, if the waves were to threaten to wash away these disks, which is the one disc that you would run to save?

Presenter32:58

One moment in time. Is it right? It's yours then. Joe Malone, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island is. Thank you so much.

Presenter33:45

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter33:48

You'll find more information on the Radio4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.