Ray Winstone

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the actor Ray Winston, nil by mouth, sexy beast, Vincent the Sweeney. He's probably best known for totally authentic tough guy geezer parts, but in truth his work has far more range and nuance, encompassing roles as varied as Henry the Eighth, Mag Witch in Great Expectations, and the leading Beowulf.

Presenter0:54

Beyond the screen the man himself almost seems to come from a bygone era, when a fellow worth this salt always wore a dapper three piece suit and was handy with his fists. In his youth as a boxer he won eighty of his eighty eight fights, and it seemed, for a while at least, that a whiff of menace had followed him out of the ring and on to the streets. However, he says I'm not like the geezers I play. Loads of things can scare me in everyday life.

Presenter1:18

But you have to hide a bit and put on a front. I cry at movies, I cry at scripts. I cried when West Ham got back into the Premiership. I'm even frightened of spiders. Welcome, Ray Winston. I'm wondering how you are as an actor sitting in front of a microphone without a script, just chatting about yourself. Is that comfortable?

Ray Winstone1:35

It's comfortable when you're having a conversation. It depends what the questions are and it depends who's asking them. When you're in a situation of being asked questions

Presenter1:37

Right.

Ray Winstone1:44

You get deja vu like you've been asked the same question again. It's much more comfortable when it's just a discussion.

Presenter1:50

Right. Let's do our best with that today then. What do you think people's um biggest misconception about you is? And people by people I mean you're you're sort of viewing public.

Ray Winstone1:51

Do I

Ray Winstone1:52

Yes.

Ray Winstone1:59

I I think the tough guy thing is is probably what it is, but that doesn't wor worry me because I kinda came to the conclusion that if that's what the public think I am when I'm playing those characters, then I'm playing the character right.

Presenter2:13

These days it seems that you're sort of in with the Hollywood bricks, you know, you've got uh Scorsese and Spielberg and Aronofsky directing you. How big is your Winnebago?

Ray Winstone2:22

On the departed it was pretty big. Beowulf was the biggest one. In fact, when they first showed me the the Winnebago on Beowulf, I asked the the girl, I said, Have you got a map?

Ray Winstone2:31

And she said, Oh my god, I love LA and I said, No, the uh Winnebago, because I'm gonna get lost and it's bigger than my flat.

Ray Winstone2:39

It's a bit embarrassing sometimes when you turn up when you're But

Presenter2:41

Yeah.

Ray Winstone2:41

Uh

Presenter2:41

Thank you.

Ray Winstone2:42

Yeah, I I you know, because you hear all the stories of people demanding this, demanding that. I've I've very rarely come across that, I've got to be honest, but

Ray Winstone2:49

But uh you kind of feel like you're being treated a bit precious, you know?

Ray Winstone2:54

And you don't really need that.

Presenter2:56

What's your criteria these days for work? Because I imagine you are constantly in demand. Is it the director? Is it the script?

Ray Winstone3:03

I've never really worried about the uh what the director is. The scripts is everything. I've probably worked with more first time directors than anything. What I love about them is they they don't particularly know the rules, so they break'em. And when you break rules you invent things.

Presenter3:17

Um the music today you're a good singer, aren't you? I seem to remember.

Ray Winstone3:19

I think so.

Ray Winstone3:21

Ask the rest of the family who might have something to say about that.

Presenter3:23

I'm sure I saw you sing and carry off beautifully well on a church show once. You've got a good voice.

Ray Winstone3:27

Uh it's all right, but I I trouble is I smoke too much. I've gone from being a like a Frank Sinatra Crooner now more to like a someone who's got a bit of a gravelly voice. So I'm a bit more bluesy now.

Presenter3:38

Tell me about your first choice of the day, then. What are we going to hear, first of all?

Ray Winstone3:41

It is Francis Albert's Sinatra.

Ray Winstone3:44

This is my party piece and uh I guess if I was alone on a desert island this is what I'd be singing to myself before I went crazy. It's uh I've got you under my skin. And I kind of sing this to my wife, you know, when I'm a little bit inebriated at parties. Probably sang it to her from the first time I met her, you know.

Ray Winstone4:03

And she did, she got on the more skin.

Speaker 44:06

I've got you under my skin.

Speaker 44:13

I've got you

Speaker 44:16

Deep in the heart of

Speaker 44:20

So deep in my heart that you're really a part of me.

Speaker 44:27

I've got you under my skin.

Presenter4:35

That was Frank Sinatra and I've got you under my skin. You were saying during that Ray Winston that you know it just conjured up for you smoke-filled rooms and listening to that in a small sort of jazz club. There's something about you that does always evoke a kind of old school style of living. You know, you're often incredibly well turned out in three-piece suits and the crombie coat and the silver tie pin and the that's is it true that you have a you commission a suit to be made twice a year?

Ray Winstone4:50

That's really cool.

Ray Winstone4:53

Yeah.

Ray Winstone4:58

Yeah, I d I do. I always have a suit with Christmas it goes back from when I was a kid, you know, my dad used to take us to a a place in Dalston. Christmas is the time you you know, you may have a suit made if you're lucky enough to be able to afford to do that, you know. But we'd done it when we weren't.

Ray Winstone5:13

You'd save up, you know, you'd get the money and you'd you'd find it some way. There's no good being poor and looking poor, you know, and it was that kind of mentality.

Presenter5:21

Uh you were born in in Hackney in nineteen fifty seven and and both sides of your family had lived in the East End as far back as the seventeen hundreds.

Ray Winstone5:28

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter5:28

What are your very first memories of of life at home? As a a real a little titch?

Ray Winstone5:33

Sunday mornings we had a pink and white pie record player and it would be Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra, Jack Jones, Tony Bennett and that you'd wake up on a Sunday mornings to that and dad had already been out and got the Bigels and the paper and you know, it was just the way of life and you'd be listening to Judy Garland somewhere over the rainbow or Tony Bennett. So it was a house of of music. It was a loud house. I mean you know there it there'd be rows but the making up would be wonderful. There's always someone coming in and someone going out and and my street was kinda like that, you know. We walked about as kids. You're six, seven years of age. You'd be walking around the corner down the road, you know, and everyone would kinda keep an eye on you.

Presenter6:12

Tell me about your grandparents, um, Toffy and Nanny Maud?

Ray Winstone6:15

Yeah, yeah. What were they like? Grandfather was a real old gent.

Presenter6:16

Yeah, what would they

Ray Winstone6:19

He was a tic-tac at the races.

Ray Winstone6:22

He had a big influence on my life.

Presenter6:23

In what aspects? What did you

Ray Winstone6:24

In in a way of just the the moral code and uh a respect for someone else. And uh Nanny Moore was we used to sch you know, she was known as the school teacher. She had a kind of way of speaking which old London did in those days. They they didn't talk like me. My accent's totally different to what I remember Londoners talking like. Even Dockers when I was a kid, you know, they had a kind of a nicer way of talking.

Presenter6:48

You lived um with your grandparents for a year when you were a teenager. How did you pick that? What what happened?

Ray Winstone6:52

For a teenager.

Ray Winstone6:54

Oh, I had a my mum and dad went on holiday and uh I had a they told me not to have a party and I had a party and the place got wrecked and and they came home and I was kicked out and uh I went and lived with granddad for a year.

Presenter7:06

And was grandad strict? Did he sort of bring you into line with it?

Ray Winstone7:10

I don't know what it is with grandparents, but sometimes grand you you can listen to your grandparents where you can't listen to your mum and dad, you know?

Presenter7:17

Tell me about your next piece of music, Ray Wednesday.

Ray Winstone7:18

Yeah, my my next one is uh Doris Day K. Sarasura and my my mum used to sing this to me when I was a little boy. So this is this holds great memories for me.

Speaker 47:28

When I was just a little girl, I asked my mother, What will I be?

Presenter7:35

Will I hide

Speaker 47:38

Will I be pretty? Will I be rich? Here's what she said to me. Kay said all, set off, whatever will be, will be.

Speaker 47:53

The future's not ours to see Que sera, sera.

Presenter7:59

That was Doris Day and K. Sarah Sarah and Memories for You, Ray Winston, of the song that your mother would often sing to you.

Ray Winstone8:04

Yeah.

Presenter8:05

Um the leading roles that you play are often these highly damaged, brutalized, and brutalizing men. And I imagine that as you were growing up in the East End when things were tough.

Ray Winstone8:14

But

Presenter8:15

Those sort of men were men that you inevitably would have come across tough guys.

Ray Winstone8:20

Yeah, I think that's the case today, you know, and it's the case in any city or any

Ray Winstone8:25

Kind of Dockland area.

Presenter8:27

Was it true that when you were really very tiny you met Ron Ronnie Cray came to visit the house?

Ray Winstone8:31

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter8:32

What happened?

Ray Winstone8:34

Bowler can't stop he he came round to see my dad and there was a few people there and uh he picked me up and I weed all over his raincoat, he had a brand new raincoat and everyone kind of went quiet and uh then Ronnie laughed and everyone laughed and I guess he went off then and had his raincloak cleaned. But he he actually I visited him years later when I was at one time gonna do the Cray film and this was back in um God, it must have been in the early eighties at Broadmoor.

Ray Winstone9:04

And uh he mentioned that to me. So I you kind of know the story's right then,'cause I'd heard it for years, you know.

Presenter9:10

What was Ronny Crae doing round your house?

Ray Winstone9:13

I have no idea, baby. I was about six months old.

Presenter9:15

Yeah, you might but later on you might have been interested in the mm-hmm.

Ray Winstone9:18

No I'd have to kill you for if I told you I'd have to kill you. No, he I my my dad had boxed with Ronnie and Reggie at the Lansdowne Club in Hackney because they started their boxing there. And they got all brought up in the same area, you know, and at seventeen, eighteen years of age everyone kinda knew everyone. My dad was never part of any gang or anything like that with them, you know.

Presenter9:38

And was your dad uh I I understand entirely what you're saying, he wasn't involved in any of their nefarious activities, but was he a hard man?

Ray Winstone9:42

Yeah.

Ray Winstone9:45

No, he was a family man, but the the m the moral things were very different in those days. You know, you'd take care of your family and if anyone messes with your family then you deal with that.

Presenter9:54

So how would he have dealt with it, you know?

Ray Winstone9:55

Well, any for anyone would it go and sort that, you know. Whatever needed to be sorted.

Presenter9:59

Oh stop talking you

Ray Winstone10:00

So what it means is that you're not. I'm just I d I don't know. If someone give me a clump, then as a kiddie give them a clump, you know, so you know, there you go, you know. And that that's how it was dealt with in them days. D these days, you know, the police are involved and everyone's taken to court and you're both bound over for a year and a day to keep the peace. What a waste of taxpayers' money.

Presenter10:06

Is it kidding?

Presenter10:08

There we go.

Presenter10:21

You helped your dad on your dad had a fruit and veg stall. Did you you helped him on the stall? Absolutely. What do you remember about that?

Ray Winstone10:23

Yeah.

Ray Winstone10:24

Absolutely. What do you remember about that? Just fun. It was like, you know, three o'clock in the morning going down to Spiltfield's Market wasn't much fun at first, but then you met so many characters in the market. I mean, I remember seeing a fist fight in Spiltfield's Market. And I don't exaggerate, it went on for 15 minutes. That is a long, long, long time. One man would fall down, the other man would pick him up, and, you know, then they'd have a rest. It was almost like that film The Quiet Man, you know, where they'd stop at a bar and have a drink and they'd go in and have a cup of tea and then they'd go off again and at the end they'd shake hands and it was it was kind of a it was something quite

Ray Winstone11:02

Beautiful about it in a way. There was these two tough men who had some kind of respect for one another.

Presenter11:09

Tell me about your third piece of music then. What what were we thinking at?

Ray Winstone11:11

My third one is um is a band called Lois and the Love. And th this is close to my heart'cause this is my daughter's band. So I'd want to take a bit of my Lois with me, as I will all my daughters. This this is called Pinocchio.

Speaker 411:37

To my heart.

Speaker 411:41

Let us see who we are.

Presenter11:53

That was Lois and the Love with Pinocchio there. As you say, that was chosen because it was your daughter. You were London Schoolboy Boxing Champ three times. As I said in the introduction, you won 80 out of your 88 fights. That I mean, that's a percentage that Oscar De La Hoya would be happy with. That isn't that.

Ray Winstone12:01

Uh

Ray Winstone12:04

That

Ray Winstone12:08

That's it.

Presenter12:09

Yeah.

Presenter12:13

But within your class you were really

Ray Winstone12:15

Yeah, you know, and uh and I enjoyed every moment of it, but I didn't have that kind of killer instinct or that the training bit of it I enjoyed and until a moment in my life where I said I've had enough of this, you know, and uh I was never good enough to be a pro and I knew that, you know. Were you scared? I was scared every time I got in the ring, yeah, of course. And I think most boxers are. And the thing is you look across the ring and you look into the eyes of your opponent and you know whether you can beat him or not. But it's boxing taught me you you have to dig deep and you have to find a way of winning that situation, you know. It stood me in good stead for the things that were going to come at me for the rest of my life.

Presenter12:51

So the obviously the fitness and the focus and the determination are all things that you can take forward. Do you I mean, when you're you know, when you're in a situation where you're acting with other big heavyweights and you've got Scorsese on the sidelines and you know they're spending

Ray Winstone12:57

Do you

Ray Winstone13:01

Yeah.

Ray Winstone13:02

Yeah.

Ray Winstone13:03

Yeah.

Presenter13:06

$25 million a day just shooting the movie.

Ray Winstone13:07

Damn.

Ray Winstone13:10

Yeah, I think so.

Presenter13:10

The colour of the

Ray Winstone13:13

Well, sometimes they are. But they all get you. The focus is is that and you you you have to take a deep breath. It's I I remember my my wife said to me, Why do you when you walk into a room, do you look like you want to kill somebody? And I and I said, I don't. I'm d you know uh when you walk into a room and you've done a film, everyone's going to look at you and it's uh quite daunting, you know, you got everyone's staring at you and you

Presenter13:14

But the focus of the

Ray Winstone13:34

And so you have to take a deep breath before you go in, put your chest out and walk in like you should be there.

Ray Winstone13:40

But in that way I project it like I want to kill someone.

Ray Winstone13:43

And and I had to think about it, it's quite right, you know, and I had to think, Okay, all right, I've got to calm that down, I c I can't put my chest out like walking I've got to do it a different way. You try and be as normal and as natural as possible.

Ray Winstone13:56

But my normal being natural, I look like I'm about to jump on someone and strangle them and I don't mean it to be that way, you know.

Presenter14:03

In something like the movie written and directed by Gary Oldman, Neil by Nice, I think it was really the sort of turning point rule for you, the moment at which people really sat up and took notice.

Ray Winstone14:07

Yeah.

Ray Winstone14:10

Oh, the moment

Presenter14:13

This is a man in the grip of addiction, it's a dysfunctional family. There are moments with Cathy Burke, who plays your wife, when you meet out extreme. Violence, and it looks as horrible as indeed extreme violence is.

Presenter14:27

Where do you go on a set just before they roll the cameras to get to that place?

Ray Winstone14:35

It's a very good question. For me, I mean it's different in every film, whatever you do. It's obviously something you can't take home with you. Some actors need to live the part all the time. I I'd find that impossible. I think that I'd go crazy. The the thing with that is, I I found that I had to go to the other side the other end of the scale and laugh.

Ray Winstone14:55

And really like mess around and then just before you're gonna do it, bang, just go from one end of it to the other really quick. When you make a film like that, for me, I had to enjoy it, I had to have fun doing it. So for me it was like literally talking about football, talking about anything but what we were about to do, and then just go whomp.

Ray Winstone15:17

And it's the same if I'm playing something funny. I go really miserable before.

Presenter15:22

Let's have your next piece of music. We're on your fourth of the morning. Tell me about this, Raywind.

Ray Winstone15:25

This is a beautiful piece of music. Um I remember going to see this film, The Raging Bull, with a mate of mine and we're supposed to be tough guys and uh we sat and watched this film which is actually not about boxing in a way, it's about people. It's probably one of my favourite films of all time, but it's a film we we cried to, you know. It meant something to us and this music just about tops it off.

Presenter16:48

That was part of the soundtrack to the film Raging Bull, and we heard there the intermezzo from Pietro Mascani's Cavaliera Rusticana, played by the orchestra Lirica, e coro della Cetro di Torino, conducted by Arturo Buzzeri. That's the one.

Presenter17:02

Have I got that right? Probably only just. Um, why did you want to act way back in the beginning, Brian?

Ray Winstone17:04

Um

Ray Winstone17:07

Uh

Presenter17:07

Uh

Ray Winstone17:07

Uh

Presenter17:07

Fuck.

Ray Winstone17:07

I don't think I did actually. I um at my school they were put on a school plan. It was a girl in a play I fancied. And so I went and done a school plan. I quite enjoyed it. It was Emmy one of the detectives and I was a newspaper boy. It was great.

Ray Winstone17:21

And then I think my mum and dad saw it and thought, Oh, hold on a minute, it's a way of keeping him off the streets and keeping him a good boy And they found out about a drama school and I went to a drama college, which was great.

Presenter17:31

Was that a private college? Yeah.

Ray Winstone17:33

Yeah, it was £900 a term. And my mum and dad, you know, just working people, found £900 a term three terms a year in 1974, I think it was. That's a lot of money. A hell of a lot of money, you know. Did you like it? Well, I was a lot of fish out of water at first because it was a whole different world for me, you know. I mean, 75% of the guys in my school were gay. I'd never come across that in my life, except with one of my uncles. So it was kind of a weird, but that meant all the girls were free. You know, it was like. So I had a ball, you know, I had a great time. And

Ray Winstone18:05

I was lucky enough that at that time people like me were getting into films and in T V, you know, you had the great play for today and the fifties, late fifties you had the kitchen sink dramas, you know, uh Carol Reid films and it where you had Albert Finneys. It's the first time uh r uh Richard Harris. These were people who who who actually sounded and looked like where I came from.

Presenter18:26

Your first important role then, it was a BBC play called Scum and it was about Young Offenders Institution and it and it was it was judged to be so controversial that at the time it wasn't actually broadcast, but it was remade by the same director two years later.

Ray Winstone18:31

Mm-hmm.

Ray Winstone18:33

Sure.

Ray Winstone18:39

Yeah, but

Ray Winstone18:41

Yeah.

Presenter18:42

But you know, by all accounts, it was a very convincing performance of this disturbed young guy. Had you learned enough at drama school to

Ray Winstone18:48

I just didn't think of the camera. I just said, I'm beating him up, I'm beating him up. And when I made the film, I had no idea what I was doing technically. The performance is from Alan Clark, without any shadow of a doubt there. It's him getting it out of me. What happened was, I remembered everything Clark had taught me, and I've used it since. What made it difficult for me was when I came to do things with a different genre, as they say, you know, this is slightly a black comedy or something, I'd play it really truthfully and from the art. Sometimes it don't work.

Ray Winstone19:20

Because I didn't know how to go into that genre, and sometimes I still don't to this day.

Presenter19:26

Time for some music, Bay Winston. We're on your fifth. Tell me about this.

Ray Winstone19:29

This is Johnny Cash.

Ray Winstone19:31

And it's called The Man Comes Around. It kind of reminds me of Do unto others as they do unto you. You know, what goes around comes around. So at the end of your day, when you sit back and you can say, Well, you know what, I was alright, I wasn't too bad. So this song kind of reminds me of that. And it's a song I've played quite a bit. I like this.

Speaker 319:50

There's a man going round taking names.

Speaker 319:55

And he decides who to free and who to blame.

Speaker 320:01

Everybody won't be treated all the same.

Speaker 320:05

There'll be of golden leather reaching down.

Speaker 320:12

When the man comes around.

Speaker 320:18

The hairs on your arm will stand up.

Presenter20:23

Uh

Speaker 320:23

At the

Presenter20:23

That was Johnny Cash and the man comes around. You were in Cold Mountain with Nicole Kidman and Rennie Zelbiger. You played a Confederate captain in that sort of part of the the love interest. Were you surprised when you watched

Ray Winstone20:29

Do you

Ray Winstone20:35

Well no, it was love interest was from my point of view. Yeah, it was from you. It was interesting. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it didn't come back. There was no comeback there, wasn't it?

Presenter20:37

Yeah, it was reviewed.

Presenter20:40

I just heard that in that you there was a there was a point on set and you were on a horse and you decided to do not quite what was planned in the scene. Yeah.

Ray Winstone20:48

And they were rehearsing and they built this western town in Brashoff up in the mountains of Romania, you know, and I'm sitting there and I was the first time I sat on my horse, George.

Ray Winstone20:57

It was Russell Crow's horse in Gladiator. But uh George told me that I rode him better, so there, Russell. And uh and I I had all the gear on, the the western gear and the hat, bent hat.

Presenter21:08

That great sort of tail for the

Ray Winstone21:08

I had the sword and the gun and all that. And I was sitting on the horse and down in the High Street which they built there was Jude and Nicole rehearsing with Renee and there was Anthony up on the hill who used to look at me as if I was mad. Lovely Anthony, right? But he used to look as at me as if I was mad anyway.

Presenter21:22

Anthony Mangella.

Ray Winstone21:27

And I went, I've always wanted to do this. I'm a cowboy, you know. And I took the gun out, I said, Boys, put some slugs in that for me. I want to have a look at how that works. You're not allowed to do it, really. And they put it in. I said, Right, so what do I die cocktail? I knew what to do with it. And I went, Get out of the way. And I stuck the old ills in up, galloped down the street, and I shot the gun off.

Speaker 421:48

Eeeeha!

Ray Winstone21:49

And they all turn round in the middle of this rehearsal and just with their jaws open look at them as he would say, What is he doing? And I had to go back to explain. I said, I've always wanted to do that since I was sort of five.

Presenter22:00

And did it feel as good as you thought? Absolutely.

Ray Winstone22:02

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely it did, yeah. But I see, you know, it's kind of making your mark, you know, I'm here, all right, don't forget about me, I want to rehearse the two, you know.

Presenter22:11

Let's have your next piece of music, Ray Winston.

Ray Winstone22:12

Yeah, this one is I've been singing this with my my little girl since she was a little baby. And it's Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush and it's called Don't Give Up. I don't know, it's just it's just a great memory of my my oldest girl growing up.

Speaker 422:27

Fight left or so it seems I am a man whose dreams of all deserted

Speaker 422:34

I've changed my face, I've changed my name.

Speaker 422:39

No one wants you when you lose.

Speaker 422:46

Don't give a

Speaker 422:48

Cause you have a friend.

Speaker 422:55

Don't give up, you're not me.

Presenter23:00

That was Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush and Don't Give Up. Um I have to say, Ray Winston, every time somebody in the entertainment business is married for more than ten years, people say, you know, it's a long and happy union. You and your wife, Elaine, have been together thirty five years, so I don't know how happy it

Ray Winstone23:10

People

Ray Winstone23:15

Yeah.

Ray Winstone23:16

It's been, but it's certainly a very good thing.

Presenter23:21

Rob is

Ray Winstone23:21

No, no, it's great.

Presenter23:23

So thirty-five years you've been uh together. So she has seen you out of work, in work, not famous, really famous, flavour of the month, come get arrested.

Ray Winstone23:24

You've been

Ray Winstone23:28

You know

Ray Winstone23:32

Yeah.

Presenter23:32

How have you weathered those very I mean, very tricky storms when you're an actor?

Ray Winstone23:36

I don't know, it's just normal, isn't it? You know, we only hear about people splitting up. There's millions of people who don't.

Ray Winstone23:43

Again, it's the old fashioned way, you know, nothing's easy, you gotta work at it and you gotta want to be there. I love her, she's a great girl, she looks after me, you know.

Presenter23:52

She is, I have to say, terrifically good looking. Are you a.

Ray Winstone23:56

Yeah, I I I she had to be. I mean, I told her she didn't stay good looking, she left to go.

Presenter24:01

Are you a jealous husband, I wonder?

Ray Winstone24:03

No, I'm not.

Presenter24:04

But I've read that over the years, and I'm delighted to hear you're not a jealous husband,'cause I was worried that, you know, there were in your younger, headier days, you have been very handy with your fists. You know, you've been you've got like a bit of bottom of

Ray Winstone24:12

Uh

Ray Winstone24:15

It's kind of a bit of a I don't think it's any more than anyone else. If s if it's on you, it's on you, you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. I've had many clumps as well, you know, I've had black eyes and I've you know, you you don't win all the time.

Presenter24:29

But I don't know.

Ray Winstone24:29

Perhaps you need younger ties.

Presenter24:30

Yeah, it was your younger days.

Ray Winstone24:31

I guess that don't everyone I know do they not? No. They don't know what they're missing. It's fantastic. You don't you you don't do it anymore though, you sort of calm down. Of course, of course. Listen, I'm fifty seven years of age. I don't think I could.

Presenter24:35

I remember.

Presenter24:46

I had wondered if you'd been getting stick for doing the betting ads, because some people have given you stick about that. You're doing the the directions.

Ray Winstone24:52

No, it's not rectors who give you a sticker pair as if it's something you shouldn't be doing as an artist.

Ray Winstone24:57

What?

Ray Winstone24:58

Well, I don't do bank commercials or insurance commercials where people have no choice. You have a choice to bet.

Presenter25:04

There was a time when you got into financial difficulty. It was quite a long time ago. Te can you tell me w what was it that happened?

Ray Winstone25:07

It's quite a long time.

Ray Winstone25:10

I was skinned, you know, I couldn't get a job and uh I hadn't paid my tax and I had two choices, either go and sign on, right, and get my house paid for, or my flat at the time paid for, or go to work. And I I chose to go to work and I paid all my debts off and actually legally I ain't bankrupt anymore, never have been.

Presenter25:30

Because of paradigm.

Ray Winstone25:30

Because I paid it all yeah, I I was, but I paid it all back.

Ray Winstone25:34

And that's what you gotta do. If you wanna be a member of society, you pay your tax, you know? And I have no problem with that now. It was a part of growing up. You know, I was I thought I was half a daily.

Ray Winstone25:44

Really, you know.

Presenter25:44

What would you tell the young you, given the lessons you've learned about getting in a fight and paying your taxes and this and that, what would you say to that?

Ray Winstone25:51

Crack on kid, do exactly what you've done because it was all right, it was all part of you growing up and it was life.

Ray Winstone25:57

I got n I got no reg the one regrets I've got is losing my mum.

Presenter26:01

Let's have some more music, Raymond's time. It's your seventh. Tell me about this.

Ray Winstone26:05

Well, uh, it's the verb, the drugs don't work. And I thought it was just about a song about a junkie, you know, and then I started listening to the words probably.

Ray Winstone26:13

And it just reminded me of, you know, of watching your mum pass away. Um, I I watched my mum for a c a couple of years, you know, through cancer. And I was lucky enough to have the last day with her, you know, and have a chat with her.

Ray Winstone26:27

But you know, it just there was nothing you could do. There was there was no drugs.

Ray Winstone26:31

That could on this planet for it doesn't matter if you're a multi multi-millionaire could have could have changed this, you know?

Ray Winstone26:38

And it's although it's a very sad song, it's a beautiful song.

Ray Winstone26:41

In a funny way it kind of remo reminds me of good times as as much as it does

Ray Winstone26:47

I don't know, the uh

Ray Winstone26:50

The disappointment of it all, I guess, you know. Of a a woman passing at such a young age who never saw her grandchildren grow up.

Speaker 426:58

And I hope you're thinking of me

Speaker 427:03

As you lay down on your side

Speaker 427:09

Now the trucks don't work, they just make you worse But I know I'll see your face again

Speaker 427:21

Now the drugs don't work, they just make you worse.

Presenter27:28

That was the verve, and the drugs don't work. You you you were only in your late twenties, I think, when your mother died, Ray Winston. What on earth, I wonder, might she have made of just how successful you've been?

Ray Winstone27:34

Yeah.

Ray Winstone27:38

I have no idea. I mean she used to sit at home uh when she was quite ill and she couldn't go to Ascot for Ladies' Day. In the end the mates used to come to her and they used to get dressed up in the garden and bring the telly out in the garden and have champagne and strawberries and cream in the garden. But she that was that was mum. I I came home once and there was a tape of scum.

Ray Winstone27:59

And there was her and a couple of my aunties watching Sky and I went, please don't.

Ray Winstone28:04

It's not the sort of film you want your mum and your aunties watching, I guess, in a way, but they oh no, it's all right, boy, it's alright, we know what that's all about.

Presenter28:12

Um you epitomize a sort of Englishness. I kind of hinted at this in in my introduction to you today. You are refreshingly politically incorrect. You you know, you you say things that people would enjoy to hear, but they wouldn't have the nerve to say themselves. Do you do you sort of like that? Do you like the old kind of two fingers up at the bottom?

Ray Winstone28:29

I might think it was honesty. I just was afraid politicians were like it, you know. If you say you're gonna do something and you get into office because you say you're gonna do something and you don't

Ray Winstone28:41

Well then surely you've got to be accountable for that. And I think if you tell the truth as much as you possibly can, we all tell white lies. If you tell the truth as much as you possibly can, then you ain't going to get found out.

Presenter28:51

Has any political party ever sort of tried to co-opt you? Say, come on, Ray, you know, we'd like you on the

Ray Winstone28:55

Yeah.

Presenter28:57

Who was it?

Ray Winstone28:58

Uh both.

Ray Winstone29:00

There's only two, aren't there? Yeah, I don't even count the other mob. But, um, uh, yeah, both. Um, but I'll no, I ain't putting my name to that.

Presenter29:08

You can take care of yourself, certainly on film. As a young boy, you did take care of yourself in the ring. Um, how are you going to be with the vagaries of a desert island?

Ray Winstone29:17

It went on.

Presenter29:17

Would you?

Ray Winstone29:18

So, what would you do? On I I love going to desert islands on Ollie. I mean, yeah, you got the wife there with you and you got your kids and

Presenter29:25

You don't take those little sexy beast yellow trunks, do you?

Ray Winstone29:27

I do love a speedo, even now with the derby hanging out. I just love I'd done it in a while. We went to Hawaii, I was working in Los Angeles, I said, babe, I'm finishing soon on this job. Why don't we shoot across to Hawaii? Because we're only three hours from it here, you know, and we ain't got to travel all that distance. Go and have a look at it. I didn't like Hawaii, to be honest with you. I expected grass skirts and palm trees, which is a bit of that going on. But it it's very Americanised as McDonald's and all that going on, you know. So we were going around the pool and I put my speedos on. She went, You are not going around the pool with him on. I said, I am. I said, I'm English, I beg your pardon. I'm going around with the speedos.

Presenter30:04

So are you planning to take them to the desert island?

Ray Winstone30:07

I think no, you'd have to, yeah, because you'd want more or less an all-over ten. I might even have a G string, I don't know, on that one.

Presenter30:12

On that note, I'll ask for your eighth piece of music, then, Ray Winston. What are we going to hear?

Ray Winstone30:16

This is probably I mean there's some great singers in the world and you know like the Frank Sinatra's Tony Bennett's and all that but this is one of my favourite songs of all time and I've got about 12 people, different people singing this song but for me you couldn't be on a desert island without the velvet voice of Net King Cole so the song is Stardust which is one of my all-time favourite songs.

Speaker 430:37

And I am once again with you.

Speaker 430:43

When our love was new

Speaker 430:48

And each gift's an inspiration.

Speaker 430:55

But that was long ago.

Speaker 431:00

Now my consolation.

Speaker 431:03

Is in the stardus of a song

Presenter31:08

That was Nat King Cole and Stardust. So, Ray, I'm going to give you some books. We give everyone the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and they get to take one other book along. What's your book gonna be?

Speaker 431:08

That was not.

Ray Winstone31:19

Wo I take

Ray Winstone31:21

The Searchers by Alan LeMay. It's a wonderful book.

Presenter31:25

That's yours. And you're allowed a luxury that will make your life just a little bit more bearable. What would your luxury be?

Ray Winstone31:31

I think it would be the old pie pink and white record player.

Presenter31:35

Ah.

Ray Winstone31:35

Right, with all the records, Tony Bennett and all that, and a fishing rod.

Presenter31:40

Right. Okay. Well, you already have a record player, so we'll give you the pie one specifically, so the fishing rods can be your luxury.

Ray Winstone31:43

Fishing rods can be your luxury.

Presenter31:47

Right, okay, that's yours then. And of these eight discs, if they were to be washed away by the waves, which one would you save?

Ray Winstone31:47

Right. Okay, that's yours.

Ray Winstone31:55

I'd save my my life and the love.

Presenter31:57

Right, it's yours. Ray Winston, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island disc.

Ray Winstone32:00

Thank you very much, I've really enjoyed it, Kirst.

Presenter32:43

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.