Julie Bentley

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:33

My castaway this week is the Chief Executive of the Guide Association, Julie Bentley, or, more accurately, Girl Guiding the name change a clue, surely, to the evolving nature of an organization determined to be relevant and useful to girls in the twenty first century.

Presenter0:50

Indeed, being relevant and useful is pretty much how my castaway has spent her entire working life.

Presenter0:56

From her early efforts at an HIV charity to running the Family Planning Association, she says her passion lies with helping young people develop confidence and direction.

Presenter1:06

Never a brownie or a girl guide herself, she was brought up in what she describes as a happy working class family in Essex, and it took her a little while to find her own self assurance and sense of purpose. A painfully shy little kid who was bullied at primary, she later went on to be head girl, but left school with very few qualifications. In her thirties she used a bequest from her mother to fund her master's degree.

Presenter1:31

She says of the Girl Guides

Presenter1:32

It's not about itchy brown uniforms and sewing and baking. It is a modern, contemporary, vibrant organisation. And so, Julie Bentley, um, both personally and professionally, it seems to me that you are very big on relevance. Is it important to you that things have a sort of practical, life enhancing force behind them?

Julie Bentley1:52

Yes, it really is. Many, many years ago, I reached the conclusion that what I really, really wanted to do was to work with young people. And more importantly, I wanted to work in the not for profit sector because I was brought up with a really very strong sense of personal responsibility.

Julie Bentley2:09

but also responsibility to the wider world. And I have sometimes faced some criticism for some of my choices, working in the field of drug and alcohol addiction, working in the field of sexual health. But actually I was brought up with a very, very strong moral compass which said to me that you don't turn your back on people because they're vulnerable or because they've got problems and you certainly don't turn your back on people who are being discriminated against. What you do is you stand by those people and do what you can.

Presenter2:37

And so baking and backstitch then, that's what it was about when I was a girl guy, thirty years ago, it's not about that anymore.

Julie Bentley2:43

doesn't have a place to go. There's still some baking, there's still some stitching, you know, never say never to anything, frankly. But one of the things that I have actually discovered since taking up the post at Girl Guiding is that this organization is incredibly relevant.

Julie Bentley2:56

Over one hundred years Girl Guiding has been going and in that time it has evolved. And as the lives and needs and aspirations of girls and young women have changed, so has girl guiding changed in order to meet the needs of those girls and young women.

Presenter3:08

Yeah.

Julie Bentley3:08

Yeah.

Presenter3:08

made headlines when you were appointed at the Girl Guide Association a few years back. One of the reasons was because you called it the ultimate feminist organization. You said the F word, which of course a lot of people get their knickers in a knot about. It's an organization obviously specifically for girls, but why then is it the ultimate feminist organization?

Julie Bentley3:26

Uh I think the first thing to say is what do I mean when I say the word feminist? Because actually I think many people see it as a hugely negative word. When I say I'm a feminist, all I mean by that is that I believe that there should be parity between men and women, socially, politically and economically.

Julie Bentley3:42

And you know, some people like to interpret this as, you know, she hates men or she's angry with the world. I'm actually pretty happy with the world and actually really love men. But the fact remains that we still don't have that parity between men and women, and therefore the job isn't done, and it isn't time to stop talking about that yet. You were named by Women's

Presenter4:00

Early in the year as one of Britain's game changers.

Presenter4:04

People who make a difference, who who shift policy that stuff of of changing the world, of incrementally moving things on, takes a heck of a lot of energy. Do your spirits ever flag?

Julie Bentley4:13

Uh

Presenter4:14

Uh

Julie Bentley4:14

Of course. Doesn't everybody sometimes have those days where their spirits flag? But I really do have a strong sense of, you know, we have one life and, you know, I need to be the best person that I can be. And I know that sounds cheesy, I guess, but I really do think that. And, you know, sometimes I get credited with, you know, Julie Bentley's Made Girl Guardian Call. And I haven't done that. I've only been there two years.

Julie Bentley4:35

What I have done is very, very proudly shine a spotlight on this incredible charity. It is a phenomenal organisation. Let's go.

Presenter4:44

With the music, Julie Bentley, tell me about your first disc this morning.

Julie Bentley4:48

What is it So my first diss this morning is Sisters Are Doing It For Themselves and this was in the charts when I was about 16 years old but at the time I didn't understand what feminism was, I don't think I've even heard of it. But actually this song which very powerfully said women don't have to always just be behind a man for success, they can be successful in their own right was something that really resonated with me and I really took away from that. Okay, there is all sorts of potential and it's just a really cracking tune isn't it?

Speaker 25:25

And an honorable feet.

Speaker 25:28

Bring it on the whole day

Speaker 25:42

Fare-free.

Presenter5:46

That was Aretha Franklin and the Eurythmics and Sisters Are Doing It For Themselves. There's a sense in which, actually Bentley, the media representations of young people, both boys and girls, constantly tell us that they seem to be in a state of crisis right now. You know, there are more youngsters taking antidepressants, there are more youngsters, both boys and girls with eating disorders, and so on and so on. When you're out there meeting your guides, what do they seem like to you?

Speaker 15:59

Speaking anti

Julie Bentley6:08

Well, they're a very varied group of people. We've got over half a million members, so there's a lot of difference. But actually, one of the regular narratives that we do here is the pressure that they feel in terms of what they're meant to look like and what they're meant to behave like. You know, when I was a child, I loved playing with my Pippa dolls, but I also really, really loved being Robin Hood, playing with my bow and arrow that my mum made me.

Julie Bentley6:30

And both of those things were perfectly fine.

Julie Bentley6:33

But increasingly it feels like actually our children and our young people are being more pigeon-toed based on their gender about what a girl is meant to be like. So I think we've got a lot of work to do.

Presenter6:42

Recently, you decided within the organisation to survey your sixteen to twenty five year old membership, and you asked them about the subject of this campaign called No More Page Three, and how many of them said that they would agree to sign up to that campaign? Eighty eight percent of respondents said they thought we should sign up. Right, okay. Now

Julie Bentley6:55

I checked.

Presenter6:59

Politics and Sexual Politics with with a small P.

Presenter7:03

Some people might be made rather uncomfortable with the idea that guiding gets involved in that sort of area. They might say, in a way, you're almost asking them to think about things that are.

Presenter7:12

not about what the purity of guiding should be about.

Julie Bentley7:16

How would you reply to that? I would say what guiding is about is what is relevant to girls and young women today. And actually, this is how the society is, and our girls and young women are very aware of these issues. So we're not exposing them to things they aren't aware of. What we're doing is we're creating a safe space for them to talk about them and express their views about them.

Julie Bentley7:35

If you were signing up to be a guide right now, what badges would you go for? Well, actually, I probably could do the baking badge because I'm pretty rubbish at cooking and I can't sew either. I would certainly have signed up when I was younger to the Body Confidence badge, I think. And also, we have a badge called Be the Change, which is about helping girls and young women understand about having a voice and how to articulate that voice. So I think that would have been helpful. You don't need that badge. Well, I don't need it now, but certainly when I was a child, I was painfully shy. Tell me about your second disc then, Julie. So the second disc is MM Lose Yourself, and the narrative is around somebody who comes from

Presenter7:55

You don't need that p

Julie Bentley8:09

A place which was very difficult, but having some potential and seeing an opportunity and going for it.

Julie Bentley8:16

I grew up in a very working class family. It was quite a poor family. I was very unsuccessful academically at school. I wasn't expected to be professionally successful, but I had an incredibly loving family system around me. You know, the messages I got as a child was do your best. That's all anybody can ask of you. And if actually your best at school isn't that brilliant, that's okay as long as you've tried really hard.

Julie Bentley8:40

And those things, coupled with having a really great couple of role models through my early career, have really helped me to move from that place of being a very, very shy, not very bright child to being the adult I am now.

Speaker 28:54

Lose yourself in the music the moment you own it, you better never let it go You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow Cause opportunity comes once in a lifetime Korea Lose yourself in the music the moment you own it, you better never let it go You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow Cause opportunity comes once in a lifetime Through this hole that is taping This world is mine for the taking Make me king

Speaker 19:09

You only get one

Presenter9:22

That was Eminem and Lose Yourself. So tell me more then, Julie Bentley, about, as you describe it, this happy working-class family in Essex. What did your parents do?

Julie Bentley9:30

Do for living.

Presenter9:30

Yeah.

Julie Bentley9:31

Before I was born they run their own taxi company. I have seen some great photos of my brother and sister who are both quite a lot older than me. Actually probably health and safety probably wouldn't allow it now on reflection, but they were both sat on top of my parents' taxis in the local carnival procession. But when I was growing up my mum was a cleaning lady and my dad was a manual labourer.

Presenter9:33

Yeah.

Julie Bentley9:49

And you have described your mother.

Presenter9:50

As an emotionally literate person, I think that's a great phrase, and I'm very interested in it. Tell me more about this mother of yours.

Julie Bentley9:57

So, my mum was, for a period of my childhood, my parents were separated. So, I was brought up pretty much in a single-parent family. And my mum was an incredible woman. She wasn't educated, she wasn't academically bright, but she was incredibly bright in life. And she dealt with having an incredibly shy little girl on her hands with a huge amount of compassion, but also with a really good balance of determination that this wasn't going to define who I was. It's difficult.

Presenter10:26

For people to understand, it's always interesting to speak to people who've been really shy as kids. Can you describe to me a bit more what that felt like? What does it feel like?

Julie Bentley10:34

I just recall feeling like just a little bit scared of the world around me and just always feeling at my happiest when I was next to my mum or actually next to my big sister as well. And I've been asked many times why I wasn't in the guides. And actually, the thought for me, I was so shy, the thought of going and taking part in something like that would have been very, very scary. And I read that you.

Presenter10:55

Your dad lost his job in his early fifties, which uh strikes me as a particularly cruel time, both practically and emotionally, to lose your job. Do you remember the impact of that on the family?

Julie Bentley11:06

The thing that I remember most was his absolute determination to get another job.

Julie Bentley11:12

He would leave the house every day and he would walk for miles and miles and miles and he would go in every shop, every factory, and he did that until he got a job.

Presenter11:22

But I'm sure there must have been very significant money worries. Some families are pretty open about that and some families protect their kids from that. What what would you be doing?

Julie Bentley11:30

No, I was aware of that. We were a very, very open family. Communication was very, very open between us about any subject when you see that.

Speaker 211:39

Yeah.

Julie Bentley11:41

I'm smiling because, yeah, any subject is up for grabs within my family system. So, yes, I was very aware of it. And of course, you know, we were fortunate that my brother and sister being so much older were both earning.

Julie Bentley11:51

Time for your third. Tell me about this.

Julie Bentley11:53

My third song is Tiger Feet by Mudd and this is homage really to my big brother and sister. My sister's 11 years older than me and my brother's 13 years older and so I was brought up really on a diet of their music but they used to dance to this song and they danced to this song so much that they actually wore holes in our carpet in the living room which my mum wasn't very impressed about actually.

Speaker 212:17

All night long, sweet looking.

Speaker 212:21

No you know you're your boss I'm curious about to be

Speaker 212:26

Oh I love you, living in the town. You got your hips swinging out of bounce. And I like the way you do what you push in. Alright, well that's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. You're in it of your tiger life. And that's neat, that's neat, that's neat, that's neat. You're ridden up your tiger feet.

Presenter12:48

That was mud and tigraphy and memories, Julie Bentley, of your big brother and big sister much older than you and wearing a hole in the in the carpet carpet in the city room dancing to that. Your big brother gave you good advice, I understand, about being bullied at school because you you got it in the neck from the bullies. What what did he tell you to do?

Speaker 212:54

Carpet in the system.

Julie Bentley13:04

to deal with them. His advice when I would come home from primary school upset because someone had been unkind to me would be if there's more than one of them, stand with your back against the wall because then you can deal with them one by one. I'm not quite sure what he thought I was going to do to deal with them one by one, given I was incredibly shy.

Presenter13:21

Yeah.

Julie Bentley13:22

Yeah.

Presenter13:22

Now putting together the jigsaw pieces of somebody's life is sort of what I try to do when I talk to them. And there you are, you know, a shy little girl who's sort of hanging behind our her mother's skirt and never really comfortable unless she's with her big brother and her big sister and her mum.

Presenter13:36

She's head girl at seventeen. And now there's a big missing chunk right in the middle there that I just want to know about.

Julie Bentley13:42

Oh, do you know what? I I'm really not sure.

Julie Bentley13:46

Um so by the time I was in my teenage years, I had formed a lot of really good friendships. So I was much happier and I and I had more confidence and I wasn't as painfully shy, although I was still quite insecure.

Presenter13:52

Do you

Julie Bentley14:00

And you have to put yourself forward for headgirl. And I had to stand up in front of the six-woman and make a speech about why I wanted to be headgirl.

Julie Bentley14:07

And um and I was chosen, which was

Julie Bentley14:11

Total shock. And and I went home and said to mum,

Julie Bentley14:15

I'm I'm gonna be the head girl and sh she was totally shocked.

Julie Bentley14:19

But actually, I think that experience was one of the pivotal moments for me because what it did, it evoked in me a sense of actually I think something's important and I think I probably should step forward.

Julie Bentley14:31

And as I went through that year,

Julie Bentley14:34

which was a brilliant year. I mean I was academically useless, but I was a really good head girl.

Julie Bentley14:39

You know, we did great charity stuff, and it was great fun.

Julie Bentley14:42

I found confidence in that year and I also realized that I was good at something and that other people saw good in me and I don't think that had occurred to me before.

Julie Bentley14:51

Let's hear your fourth. Tell me about this. I was a teenager of the 80s. I was very much into my pop music, and I've chosen this next song because Frankie Goes to Hollywood were so different when they came onto the scene from anything we were hearing. And so, whilst I have some great memories from the 80s altogether as a teenager, some terrible fashion choices when I think back to what I was wearing, for me, this song kind of summed up that sense of wow, this is new and nobody else knows what this feels like. And of course, quite a lot of adults disapproved, which is always very exciting to a teenager.

Speaker 215:25

Shooting stars never stop, even when there is time. Shooting stars never stop, even when there is time. There goes the supernova, what up for sure, yeah. There goes the supernova, what a push over. We're a long way from home. Welcome to the pleasure dome, on our way home. Going home where lovers won't long way from home. Welcome to the pleasure dome.

Presenter15:58

That was Frankie Goes to Hollywood and welcome to the pleasure doom. I should tell our listeners, Julie Bentley, that during that we were swapping tales of boiler suits and perms and Deirdre Barlow glasses. We don't have time for all of that, but you did conjure a wonderful image. Let's talk about your first job then as an apprentice police photographic technician, to give it its full title. You were 18 when you left school and got that job. Tell me about your first few days in work. How did it go?

Speaker 116:04

There's a n

Presenter16:22

Yeah.

Julie Bentley16:22

Well, it wasn't the best first few days in work. Um in the interview one of the questions they asked me was if I was squeamish.

Julie Bentley16:29

And I didn't consider myself to be squeamish, so said no. But it became very clear very quickly that this was beyond squeamish because I was exposed to the most horrific of images, you know, um people that had died in car crashes.

Julie Bentley16:43

people that had killed themselves, children that had been starved to death.

Julie Bentley16:48

I think I knew on my very first day that I had made a terrible mistake because I was actually physically sick. And I said, you know, I really don't want to be a person that can see these images and not feel physically sick at them. So I resigned and actually left without another job to go to. Was that the time also that your father passed away? My dad died two days after I left. Two days after.

Presenter17:08

Two days after. So how did you I mean, a v a very you know, we're young, we're eighteen, we're full of optimism. How did you deal with such horrendous circumstances of your f

Julie Bentley17:18

Father passing away.

Presenter17:18

Yeah.

Julie Bentley17:18

Well, obviously it was a very difficult time. Dad died very, very suddenly and very unexpectedly, just literally dropped down dead of a heart attack at work. So there was no warning.

Julie Bentley17:29

And what I well, what I did was, I decided I needed to get a job quickly to help with family finances. And so I just did, I suppose I took the example of what my dad had done, which was I started to walk around looking for places that had jobs, and the local post office was advertising for postmen at the time. And so I applied and got a job as a postie, and I loved it.

Speaker 217:45

But

Julie Bentley17:49

It was a very social job, and I had the same post-round for five years. And I learned quite a lot about people in that job.

Julie Bentley17:56

Some people did look down on me because I was just the person to live in the post and they made lots of assumptions about me that I must be really quite thick and obviously I couldn't get another job if I was supposed to. But I also met some amazing people and if it was pouring with rain and I was drenched through to my undies I'd have you know Mrs X waiting for me at the front door with a cup of tea, you know, saying, You look perishing love, you know, have some tea before you go on. So actually I saw some real kindness.

Speaker 118:00

I know.

Julie Bentley18:24

Let's have some more music, Julie Bentley. We're on your uh your fifth.

Julie Bentley18:27

The next song is a reminder of my first full paid youth work role. As a postlady, I had decided that I wanted to be a youth worker, so I started to do lots of volunteering in my home town and then eventually applied for my first full time job as a youth worker, and it was in South East London.

Julie Bentley18:43

It was a bit of a shock to the system, frankly, because I came from quite a nice twee little

Julie Bentley18:47

Rural place in Essex, I hadn't seen the level of deprivation and disadvantage. And we developed a project working with young people around drug and alcohol issues. And one of the songs that we used to use to help kind of prompt their thinking was this song, which is White Lines by Grandmaster Flash. Lots of people think this is a song promoting drug use, but actually it isn't. And whenever I hear this song, it really reminds me of being a 24-year-old youth worker in a really tough part of London and about what I learned about different life experiences at that time.

Speaker 119:17

Right.

Speaker 119:20

Vision dreams of passion.

Speaker 119:24

And all the while I think of you.

Speaker 119:28

A very strange reaction.

Speaker 219:30

Always do underwater

Speaker 119:32

The more I see the more I deuce.

Speaker 119:36

Baby.

Presenter19:48

Crandmaster Flash and White Lines. There is an increasing awareness, Julie Bentley, of the particular problems that teenagers face. We're increasingly aware that youngsters at those vulnerable stages in their lives are targeted by potential abusers, it could be drug users and so on and so on. As somebody who's worked in the field,

Presenter20:07

and who sees things changing now. What do you make of all those years?

Presenter20:11

when lots of people in positions of authority and responsibility who were supposed to be there to help children appeared not to want to know and swept it under the carpet.

Julie Bentley20:22

I think it's very difficult, and I think we are far more acutely aware of some of the risks to young people in a way that wasn't the case many, many years ago. I mean, the world has changed so hugely, hasn't it? You know, when I was a teenager, there wasn't even a mobile phone, let alone internet and social media. So, what we have to do now is focus on how we adapt the support that young people get. One of the things that I've often been challenged for in the past is my support for sex and relationships education, for example. But actually, you know, information is a thing that helps us.

Julie Bentley20:54

And we need to make sure that our young people have the information that they need in order to understand how they need to protect themselves in terms of all walks of life. Yeah.

Presenter21:02

Do you think it's the case that we just need to abandon ideas of innocence? Because I might think back to when I was twelve or you were twelve and think, well, we just didn't know about these things. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't talk to kids about those things, if they were children for just a little bit longer? Do you think

Julie Bentley21:18

I think we need to forget that.

Presenter21:19

Yeah.

Julie Bentley21:19

That notion of, you know, by talking to young people about the realities of some things you are taking away their innocence, that presumes that young people didn't know about and weren't aware of the things. The fact is most young people are aware of a degree of life in the big wide world that we certainly weren't aware of. So we can't hold back. The fact is they know. So when I was a t teenager, I wasn't aware of pornography.

Presenter21:35

So we can't hold back that touch.

Julie Bentley21:43

Actually, pornography

Julie Bentley21:45

regretfully, is so easily accessible nowadays on social media. And so my view on this is it isn't going to help them by pretending it's not there. If they're accessing it and seeing it, then we have a responsibility to help them understand that that is not a true representation of a relationship between two people.

Presenter22:02

Let's just wind back a bit from that then. When did you first realize that sexual health was an area you wanted to work in and it needed to be addressed?

Julie Bentley22:10

I first became aware of the whole um area of sexual health when I was in my late teens and I volunteered with a charity in Essex that supported people that are HIV positive. And obviously back then HIV was big news and it was the time when you know it was very scary as well, the big tombstone advertisements, etcetera.

Presenter22:27

Yeah, and it was stigmatized highly. It was the really plague and incredibly stigmatized

Julie Bentley22:29

Incredibly stigmatized. And I volunteered as a buddy supporting an HIV positive woman. And that really opened my eyes both to the challenges of sexual health but also to that issue of stigma and discrimination. And I think probably that led to me being interested in the Family Planning Association.

Presenter22:47

Many years later, when you ran that organisation, you headed up notable campaigns to do with disabled people having fulfilling sex lives and that to be a reasonable expectation of a healthy life of a disabled person. You also spoke about the increase in sexually transmitted diseases for the over sixties. Both of these campaigns received a lot of publicity, and you went out batting for them. It strikes me you somewhere along the way you stopped being shy.

Presenter23:12

If you can sit in a a radio or a T V studio and talk about those things, you know, which British people can often find rather squirming.

Julie Bentley23:18

Yeah, I guess so. Although you noticed earlier I was chuckling when I referred to the fact that there was no subject was off limits within my family system. And sex was one of those. My mum had a fantastic approach to sex education, which was if I asked a question, she answered it straightforwardly and honestly. So I grew up with an expectation that, you know, of course, sensible, grown-up, mature people talk about sex in a sensible, mature way. And then I got out into the real world and realised that that wasn't always the case. One headline once said.

Julie Bentley23:46

Teaches five-year-olds to put on condoms, which of course is ridiculous. That is never what happened. But actually, some of the things that we did, as you mentioned, I'm very, very proud of. Time for some more music. You're sixth. The next song is about Sean, my partner. We had our wedding nine years ago, and we asked our guests to suggest a song that they felt summed our relationship up. And I have to say, it was brilliant. We had some fantastic, some fantastic song suggestions. But we chose this one, Queen, You're My Best Friend. And so we had this song playing as we walked back down the garden path, which was our version of the aisle. And it's absolutely true. Sean is my very best friend.

Speaker 224:23

Will you make me live now, honey?

Speaker 224:27

Who you making me live?

Speaker 224:31

Oh you're the best friend

Speaker 224:35

I don't go hell.

Speaker 224:37

Been with you such a long time. You're by sunshine.

Speaker 224:42

And I want you to know that my feelings are true and I really love

Speaker 224:50

Oh, you're my best friend.

Presenter24:54

That was your my best friend by Queen. Um Julie, as we know then, you run this organization with thousands of teenage members. How much time do you actually spend in their company?

Julie Bentley25:03

Haha.

Presenter25:03

Yeah.

Julie Bentley25:03

Yeah.

Presenter25:03

Uh

Julie Bentley25:03

Uh

Presenter25:03

Uh

Julie Bentley25:03

Yeah.

Presenter25:03

Yeah.

Julie Bentley25:03

I try and get out to visit our units and our events and our activities as much as possible. It never feels like work when I'm out visiting the girls and the units. And one of the first things I did when I took up the post was I went along to our big gig, and it basically is a gig just for girl guides with all of the top pop bands. And we filled Wembley twice over in one day. And my colleague said, Okay, Julie, just stand here and we're going to open the doors in a minute. And I stood in the pit and I opened the doors, and from every direction, Wembley filled up with nothing but girl guides.

Julie Bentley25:39

And the noise was phenomenal. And actually it brought a tear to my eye because I just stood and looked at this incredible sight of these girls having the most fantastic time and thought, and this is just a tiny, tiny percentage of the girls and young women that we reach through girl guiding.

Presenter25:54

You don't have kids yourself, and I'm wondering if being able to go home and shut the door and have peace and quiet away from all of the demands is actually something of a relief for you.

Julie Bentley26:05

Well, I think having a bit of peace and quiet is a relief for everybody. I don't think so. Not everybody gets it, especially the teenage people. I don't feel like I get much peace and quiet. It's mainly because I choose to have a life that involves a lot of being at work. But home is my sanctuary actually, and one of my very favorite things to do

Presenter26:08

Yeah, but not

Presenter26:09

I can't do it.

Speaker 126:10

Uh

Speaker 126:12

Do you not smell?

Julie Bentley26:21

It is to actually just come home and sit on the sofa with my PJs with Sean and a cup of tea. I'm glad to hear that you do that.

Presenter26:27

That because I read that to celebrate your 40th birthday, you and Sean went, you didn't put your feet up, you decided to cycle from Land's End to John O'Groats. And I'm wondering.

Presenter26:37

To what extent was that a a sort of test of your relationship as well as your Physical events.

Julie Bentley26:41

Yeah.

Julie Bentley26:43

15 days together, just the two of you, on your bikes, was a high-risk scenario for any relationship. But I'm very pleased to report that our relationship endured and proved to be very resilient. And thankfully, in the peaks and troughs of the emotional roller coaster that is cycling from Lansing to Johnny Groats, because trust me, it is a huge emotional roller coaster. We saw each other through it.

Presenter27:03

Would you like to

Presenter27:06

I mentioned in the introduction that you funded your master's degree in your thirties by a legacy left by your mother in her will.

Speaker 227:14

Copper

Presenter27:14

What do you think she would have made?

Julie Bentley27:16

made by the use of the money. Oh, she would have been absolutely delighted. Well, she wouldn't have known what an MBA was actually, in all honesty. But once she had understood what it was, she would have been very, very proud of that.

Julie Bentley27:27

Tell me about your next choice then. So my next choice is dedicated to my mum. My mum died 14 years ago and she was very ill with cancer for a few years before she died, which was a very difficult time, but it was a huge privilege to have that time with her. But because she knew she was dying, she decided that she wanted to plan her funeral, because that's where I get my organisation skills from. Very organised, the Bentley women.

Julie Bentley27:52

And she said, I really want this song played at my funeral.

Julie Bentley27:56

And the song is, I believe, by Harry Seacombe, so I went off to find the song, and couldn't find it anywhere.

Julie Bentley28:03

And so I wrote to Harry Seacombe, and

Julie Bentley28:06

Extraordinary, I got a reply, and he said your mum's right, she did hear me singing the song, but I haven't actually recorded it. But I hope the enclosed is helpful.

Julie Bentley28:15

And in the package was an old cassette tape of him singing the song. And so I

Julie Bentley28:21

Went to mum and she was just beside herself because firstly she was beside herself that I would write to Sir Harry Seacombe. I mean that's not the sort of thing we did in our family, write to celebrities.

Julie Bentley28:31

Um but even more, of course, taken aback by the fact that

Julie Bentley28:34

There had been a response. So

Julie Bentley28:38

It was very poignant at her funeral when the song was played, and I still have that old tape.

Speaker 228:48

Baby France

Speaker 228:51

Or touch a leaf or see the sky that ain't a war

Presenter29:15

That was Harry Seecombe, and I believe as we know then from talking to you this morning, you've worked with people who are HIV positive, you've worked with alcohol and drug abusers, you've promoted better sexual health. I'm wondering now if Heading Up the Girl Guides is in a way, although it doesn't really in the beginning seem like it, but somehow part of that continuum. The idea that if you can get

Presenter29:38

youngsters and engage them and offer them alternatives to all of the sort of

Presenter29:43

Less salubrious things that are out there, that actually you might be helping to stop the problem before it even begins.

Julie Bentley29:51

Well I think there might be a degree of that. The thing is, often the narrative around young people is a negative narrative. You see far more stories about young people that are negative stories than you see about young people that are positive. Actually, the fact of the matter is, most young people are fantastic and you know it's a real privilege to be able to work with the next generation.

Presenter30:11

Yeah.

Julie Bentley30:11

Fine

Presenter30:11

I know you camped a lot as a family. You went on camping holidays. I don't know if you've got your advanced camper badge.

Speaker 130:16

Perhaps

Presenter30:18

Which is available, I learned, from the guiding website. How do you think you might say?

Julie Bentley30:22

Survive on the desert island? Practically, probably not that well, thinking about it. But actually, I don't think I'd survive very well on the desert island in general because I'm not very good at being isolated. I think I would be very lonely, but I am a bit of a sun worshipper, so as long as it could be an island that had a nice beach and lots of sunshine, then I might be okay for a little while. But if possible, I'd like to be brought back from it quite quickly. We'll see what we can do, but I'm not guaranteeing anything. Tell me about your final piece of music, then, Julie. My final song is 500 Miles by Sonny and Cher. A version of this song was used as a theme tune to the iconic film Cathy Come Home, which following that film, the charity Shelter, was started. I became a trustee of Shelter because when I worked with people with drug and alcohol addictions in my earlier career, many of those people were homeless as a result of their problems. And for me, it is impossible to flourish in an environment like that. So the work of Shelter is absolutely crucial, and I'm incredibly proud to be a trustee of the organisation.

Speaker 231:25

We're here to find me.

Speaker 231:30

I can go.

Speaker 231:46

It's so

Speaker 231:48

Okay.

Presenter31:51

Sonny and Sher and Five Hundred Miles. I'm about to cast you away then, Julie Bentley, as we know. You get to take the Bible.

Presenter31:57

And the complete works of Shakspeare, and one other book too, what's it gonna be?

Julie Bentley32:01

Yeah.

Presenter32:01

It's got

Julie Bentley32:02

It's going to be If Nobody Speaks of Remarkable Things by John McGregor. Right, that's yours and a luxury.

Julie Bentley32:08

I am going to take my photo albums because actually, you know, my family and my friends are the world to me, and if I've got to be there on my own, then I at least need to be able to look at their lovely faces frequently.

Presenter32:20

Right, that's yours then. And finally, if you could only have one of these eight tracks, which one disc would it be?

Presenter32:27

It would have to be You're my best friend so that I could keep Sean close. It's yours. Julie Bentley, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter33:16

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter33:18

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4