Rt Hon Theresa May

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the Right Honourable Teresa May, MP, the longest serving Home Secretary in fifty years. For those who think her political lineage seems directly descended from the Iron Lady, Theresa May's mettle has certainly been stress tested in the past few weeks. She's apologised in Parliament for having failed twice to appoint a suitable head to lead the historical child abuse inquiry. A minister in her department resigned, claiming working with her had been like walking through mud.

Presenter1:02

Then the controversy over the non vote on the European Arrest Warrant, and, to top it all off, news this week that one in five crimes go unrecorded.

Presenter1:11

Just as well, then, that she has a reputation as a woman who knows her own mind and is willing to speak it. She famously said the Conservatives were perceived as the nasty party. Her excoriating speech to the Police Federation dealt head on with long term corruption and incompetence in their ranks, and was received with stunned silence. And at this year's Tory Party conference she bravely chose a passage from the Koran to make a point about tackling extremism. So, unflinching, resilient, driven, and, if a recent poll is to be believed, a very popular choice among Conservative voters to be the next PM, she has so far remained tight lipped on any ambition to lead her party.

Presenter1:53

She says, I think you have to believe in what you are doing. That's key.

Presenter1:58

If you do believe you're doing the right thing, that gives you resilience. So welcome, Theresa Maid. The workload of any minister, of course, is substantial, but by all accounts, to be the Home Secretary, you range across so many important facets of our life. There is, of course, day-to-day responsibility for policing, for immigration, for counter-terrorism, for drugs policy.

Presenter2:21

I wonder which part of your work you find the most challenging.

Presenter2:26

Hello, Kirsty. I think it's difficult to say because at any point in time a particular aspect of the work can have a particular focus on it. I think the key thing about all the issues that the Home Office deals with, though, is that they really matter to people. And the Home Office's raison d'ete since it was set up has never changed really. It's about

Presenter2:47

The safety and security of the British public. You look pretty well rested today, but I'm wondering what keeps you awake at night.

Presenter2:53

Well fortunately I'm somebody who can sleep quite well, although I don't get as many hours sleep as I might. On average what then?

Rt Hon Theresa May2:59

Yeah.

Presenter3:00

Well, you're probably talking about five or six hours, but there's a lot of work to do. You had an advanced party today, not surprisingly, coming to the BBC, security, close protection officers, as you walked up the corridor. How much of your life do you feel is taken over by the job? By just those practicalities. Well, you get used to the practicalities, of course. I mean, it's quite a shock at first. You know, when I was in number ten Downing Street and David Cameron had asked me to take on the role of Home Secretary, and I walked out of the cabinet room, and virtually the first thing that somebody said to me was, Your protection team is waiting for you. And of course, I hadn't thought about that at all. I haven't driven a car since I became Home Secretary. So it does change various aspects of your life. You've been at frontline politics now for around about 15 years. And yet, when I was attempting to research for today's interview, very little of the personal... I mean, people have said, with the knowledge that you were coming on here today, are you see now? It's all part of a plan. Theresa May has decided that this is her moment to state her case as a potential leader. Her popularity is at something of a height, and this will perfectly weave in something of the personal to the political. No, it is genuinely about a huge opportunity to do a programme that sadly I don't get to hear these days as often as I might have done in the past, but I think has become just an integral part of British life. And, you know, not everybody gets invited onto Desert Island Discs, and I certainly wasn't going to turn down the invitation. When you eventually do have more time on your hands, we have a huge archive of podcasts that you can download. Something of a plug. Tell me then, Home Secretary, about your first choice of the morning. What are we going to hear?

Rt Hon Theresa May4:35

Finally something.

Presenter4:41

Well, we're going to hear something from what I think is a fantastic show. My husband and I went to see it a few years ago. It's The Jersey Boys.

Presenter4:48

Frankie Valley and the Four Seasons. It also reminds me of because there's a group of friends in the village that we live in who this means something to as well. And it will remind me of many happy evenings in the Pearson Hall, which is the Village Hall, with friends.

Speaker 35:09

Oh how you tried Let me down to Ziya Tellin' dirty lias to my friends My own father So give her up, don't bother The world isn't coming to an end

Speaker 45:15

Run, run, run.

Speaker 35:22

He said, Walk like a man, talk like a man, walk like a man, my son. No woman's worth, falling on the earth, to walk like a man.

Presenter5:37

From the original Broadway production of Jersey Boys, based on the story of Frankie Valley and the Four Seasons, that was Walk Like a Man. So, Theresa, may you were born then, right bang in the middle of the fifties, 1956, to Zadie and the Reverend Hubert Brazier. A vicar's life, your father was a vicar, uh is a very busy one and a busy household. What are your early memories of of life at home?

Presenter5:58

Well, I suppose early memories obviously everything did revolve very much around the church, but early memories of, I suppose, a father who couldn't always be there necessarily when you wanted him to be, but who was around quite a lot of the time at other times when other parents weren't normally. And I have one memory, for example, of being in the kitchen I think I might have been helping my mother do some cooking or something and looking up and up the uh the the path to the back door were a whole group which was a family who'd come to complain about an issue around the church you know just knock on the door and that's it. They expect to see the vicar. You know some people would say sometimes life as a vicar's daughter isn't can have its ups and downs. But I feel hugely privileged actually in the the childhood that I had. And you an only child then? What would we have found you doing to pass the time?

Presenter6:47

Reading quite a lot. Probably at quite an early age started arguing, discussing with my father. And I think part of being an only child was being exposed to much more of the adult world at an earlier age. And when you were sitting round the lunch table with with your parents and, you know, arguing the toss with your father, did you take issue with the church? You know, that's quite a natural thing for us to do, isn't it, as children, especially when we're eleven, twelve, thirteen, to start to say, well, actually, the way you see the world isn't the way I see the world.

Presenter7:15

It's interesting because I I didn't at no stage did I take issue with the church. And I think that was partly because it was never really imposed on me by my parents. Obviously in the early days I was very much brought up in the church and going to church, but it was always understood that if I didn't want to I could make that decision.

Presenter7:35

And so I think precisely because of that I didn't feel the need to kick the traces at any stage. And so today, now, how important is your faith to your day-to-day existence?

Presenter7:45

Well, it is important. I'm still a a practising member of the Anglican Church. I don't get as involved in church activities as I have done in the past. But as I say, I'm still a regular communicant. American politicians are very upfront about where God is in their lives. And many people in politics in Britain feel that it is purely for the private sphere. Where do you stand on that? I mean, do you see your faith not directly influencing your politics, but playing a role in your general approach to life?

Presenter8:14

Well, I think the point is that it is part of me.

Presenter8:17

It is part of who I am and therefore how I approach things. I think it's right that we don't sort of flaunt these things here in British politics, but it is a part of me, it's there, and it obviously helps to frame my thinking and my approach. And your mother had multiple sclerosis. How did that affect the daily life for your family? That was towards the later years, and that was largely when I moved away from the family home. But multiple sclerosis is one of those things that can plateau for quite a period of time and then

Rt Hon Theresa May8:45

Alright.

Presenter8:52

You know, can condition can deteriorate. So at the end, and in fact, by the time of my wedding to Philip, she was a wheelchair user. Let's have your second piece of music, Theresa Maiden. What are we going to hear? Well, this is going right back to my childhood and very much to that link with the church. It comes from a hymn which sometimes, if my father, mother, and I were just alone in the church, we would just kneel down and sing, particularly the last two verses of this, therefore we before him bending this great sacrament revere.

Speaker 39:23

Come to her saka men.

Speaker 39:30

Even the motives.

Speaker 39:36

Ver can tie con bour pour men.

Speaker 39:42

No, what's he that wait for me?

Speaker 39:48

Blessed feebles of their own Santa won death.

Speaker 310:09

The house that you did not see old

Rt Hon Theresa May10:09

The love is hit.

Speaker 310:16

Aros homor metos coquer si tet menedim sio.

Presenter10:28

The Pange lingua sung by Capella Gregoriana, and I should ask for your forgiveness, I suppose, Theresa May, and that we could only find the Latin version. I'm sure there will be a desirous listener somewhere who will tell us there is a recorded English version, but goodness me, we couldn't find it for today's recording. You started getting involved in politics, as I understand it, when you were just twelve. You were stuffing envelopes for the local Conservative Association. Why were you interested?

Presenter10:53

I don't know. Politics captured me and I think it was because I wanted to make a difference to people's lives. That sounds terribly trite, but it is. Being involved in politics, being a Member of Parliament and particularly being a government minister, is a huge honour, a huge privilege, but it also carries with it significant responsibilities. So I wanted to make a difference. I wanted to be part of the debate. My father was very clear, though, that as far as he was concerned, he was the vicar for the whole parish, and so I shouldn't be out on the streets sort of parading my politics. It was important to him that I could be involved, but do it in that sort of behind the scenes sense.

Rt Hon Theresa May11:28

Yeah. Yeah.

Presenter11:35

You're famed these days for your mastery of your brief. Um were you a conscientious schoolgirl? I can only imagine the answer to that is yes. I'm afraid it was. I need to apologize.

Presenter11:47

Yes. You know, I enjoyed reading. I I did my homework. I was that sort of schoolgirl. And when you were a teenager then, in in the in the early seventies, what was your favorite outfit? If you were going somewhere special, what would you be picking from the wardrobe?

Presenter12:00

Oh my goodness me. Um well that was the era of uh flares and tank tops, I'm afraid, I think was probably the time back. But it would have been sort of flare trousers and blouses used to have more sleeves in those days. Oh it was all of them. Voluminous sleeves. I had a yellow blouse which had huge voluminous sleeves, I remember. The reason I ask about what you're wearing is is because today you've turned up in a really exquisite I think it's a black watch tartan suit. It looks to me like it's been made to measure. Has it made to measure? No. Is it not? Oh you wear it very well. You do have a very pulled together look and I would say often quite fashion forward if I can use that phrase in the clothes that you wear. Do you do you have a stylus or a personal shopper that helps you with your clothes?

Speaker 312:12

Oh.

Rt Hon Theresa May12:12

But it's all about humanists.

Rt Hon Theresa May12:14

Yeah.

Presenter12:43

No, I have a particular shop that I go to and they know the sort of thing that I like to wear. So they will sometimes ring me up and say there's something really nice. And there are some designs that I do wear particularly, but I enjoy clothes. Let's have some more music, Theresa May. Your third of the morning. This is a piece of music which I wasn't aware of until I passed my A-levels. And the local GP and his wife actually said when I passed my A-levels they'd like to give me a present and the present they gave me was a recording of Elgar's cello concerto and I think it's a wonderful, wonderfully haunting piece of music.

Presenter14:25

That was part of Elgar's cello concerto being played there by Yo-Yo Ma with the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Andrei Preven.

Presenter14:33

So after school then, Home Secretary, you read geography at Oxford. You were active then, I read, in the Debating Society. Had that started earlier on at school? Well, funnily enough, despite the fact that I was quite used to, as I said, discussing things with my parents at home, when I was at school we had a history teacher who decided he'd set up a debating society. The school didn't have one and he called a number of us he suggested a number of us went along one lunchtime into a classroom, which we all did. And he had some pieces of paper with little subjects on, you know, literally in a hat, and everybody had to go up and pick a piece of paper and speak for two minutes. And I went up to the front and I picked a piece of paper and I turned round and I couldn't think of a single thing to say. So my career in debating started with silence. What was the subject?

Presenter15:23

I should have known been able to think of something to say about it. It was school uniform. Yes, you should I should have been able to yes. And the performance, of course, is a big part of it too. Developing that skill and understanding how to to hold people in the moment of an argument before you hit them with the kicker and all that sort of stuff. Did you develop that as you went? Because surely in the chamber these days that must come in useful.

Presenter15:42

I suppose it is. I mean, I think having been at Oxford and having the opportunity to debate in the Oxford Union Society is a very good preparation in a sense for the House of Commons for politics. But the interesting thing about the Chamber of the House of Commons is that you never quite know when you walk into it what the mood of the Chamber is going to be.

Presenter16:01

Mr President, describe to me how it felt a few days ago when it seemed that the whole of the the chamber was dissatisfied with the conduct of the Home Office and indeed with you yourself. We saw you being rebuked by the Speaker. This was about the European arrest warrant, the non-vote on that, and we saw your own backbenchers criticising your conduct. Did you think I tried to well, maybe not pull a fast one, but I tried a bit of smoke and mirrors there and I'm paying for it now. Well I certainly wasn't trying smoke and mirrors. There was no sense in which I was trying smoke and mirrors. I was very clear. Technically the only thing the House had to vote on that would be binding on the Government were the regulations that didn't cover the European Arrest Warrant, but

Rt Hon Theresa May16:28

No.

Presenter16:42

I was very clear that Government was saying we will be bound, nevertheless, on the European Arrest Warrant and other measures. If I was starting it again now, would I do it in a different way? Given the understanding of how Parliament felt, then perhaps I would. What would you do differently?

Presenter16:59

Well, I think Parliament was very clear that they wanted a vote on the European Arrest Warrant, and maybe if we were starting again, we should look at that. When you went home that evening.

Presenter17:09

Did you feel bruised and battered? Did you pour yourself a large one and sort of sit and lick your wounds? Yes, I mean the debate had gone in a slightly different direction from the one I was in expecting it to. I felt that like uh that politics is a world of ups and downs and uh you know the votes had been won. By way of a change of gear and only on Desert Island discs, Theresa May, I will ask you to tell us about this next piece of music then. Well, I thought when I was preparing this sort of list that I'd actually quite like something to perhaps jig up and down to or dance to a bit on this Desert Island. And my husband, Philip and I, are sort of the ABBA generation, so it is a piece of ABBA and it's I've chosen Dancing Queen.

Speaker 417:49

Anybody could be that guy

Speaker 417:54

Light is young and the music's

Speaker 317:59

Music, everything's fine, during the Moonford Band.

Speaker 318:07

And when you get the chance, you are the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeen.

Presenter18:21

That was Abba and Dancing Queen. So, Theresa May, you were in your mid-twenties and you'd not been married very long. It was at the very beginning of the 80s, I think, 1981, when tragedy struck profoundly in your family. Your father was killed in a car crash. And then, within a matter of months, your mother, who as we know, had been suffering from multiple sclerosis by this time, also dies. As an only child.

Presenter18:48

When you find that the thing that has always been there is suddenly not there any more, can can you describe to me how you how you coped during that period?

Presenter18:57

Well, I think uh crucially um

Presenter19:00

I had huge support in my husband.

Presenter19:03

And that was very important for me. I mean, he was a real rock for me. He has been all the all the time we've been married. But particularly then, of course, being faced with that the loss of both parents within a relatively short space of time.

Presenter19:18

And you um you had met at Oxford. I now I've read you were introduced by Benazir Bhutto to the man we were. You were indeed yes. Tell me the circumstances of that.

Rt Hon Theresa May19:25

We were indeed US.

Presenter19:28

Oh dear It was actually an Oxford University Conservative Association disco of all the things, and um I remember I was sitting talking to Benazir and uh Philip came over and and she said, Oh, you know, do you know Philip May?

Presenter19:42

And the rest is history, as they say. I mean, you've been married now for thirty four years, but what what what was your first impression of him?

Presenter19:48

I think I quite liked it.

Presenter19:52

Are you going to give me more than that, or is that it?

Presenter19:54

What did you I mean what did you bond over? Well I suppose you know we we were jointly interested in politics, we were meeting at the Conservative Association, so we had some sort of common interest to start off with. In terms of your working life then, you started off at the Bank of England after you had graduated and by the time you were in your thirties in the 1980s you were working as a financial consultant and you were also by that point a local councillor in Merton. 1997 then, Labour won with a landslide in 1997 of course, but it was a very good night for you. How did you celebrate that night, given that it must have been a bit of an odd night for you? Because there you are, your party's turfed out of power.

Presenter20:32

But after, you know, after trying for quite a while you win your seat.

Presenter20:36

Indeed, I mean I celebrated because I'd fought two parliamentary seats previously. And we should say it was Maidenhead, was it? It was Maidenhead when I was won the seat.

Rt Hon Theresa May20:42

Who's an agent had

Presenter20:45

So there was celebration for that, but huge sadness, of course, for what had happened overall. Um I read about you in the in the F T, an article in the F T somebody described you as a non ideological politician with a ruthless streak, and I want to know what you make of that.

Presenter21:04

Well, you see, I've I don't think I've got a ruthless streak. I don't have an ism other than Conservatism. But I do believe in certain principles. I believe in that principle of individual freedom, of people being able to make better decisions than the government, of aspiration and opportunity. But as a politician, you also have to be pragmatic.

Presenter21:25

I just want to get on and do the best that I can. I mean, that was something my parents very much brought me up to believe in: that whatever you're doing.

Presenter21:34

Try your hardest, do your best. And do you think that is enough? I mean, one of the other things that people sometimes say about you is, well, you know, Jesus Maybe terrifically efficient, not very clubbable. Does that not interest you, all that sort of, you know, drinks in the bar after the vote and all that sort of stuff? It's not me. And going back to one of the songs I picked earlier, the Jersey Boy songs, Walk Like a Man, I'm very clear that women in politics, in business, in whatever field they're in, should be able to do the job as themselves and not feel they've got to walk like a man.

Presenter22:06

Tell me about your next track, Theresa Mayor, on your fifth of the morning.

Presenter22:10

Well, this takes me back to the 1992 general election when I was a candidate in North West Durham. And it was the Conservative Party's theme tune for that general election, a piece of Purcell. And I remember one night particularly, I'd been speaking at a public meeting in part of the constituency, and I had to drive through the pitch-black night. And as I drove through on my own, I put the tape of this music on, and it lifted my spirits.

Presenter23:38

That was the rondeaux from Purcell's Abdelaza Suite played by The Taverner Players conducted by Andrew Parrott.

Presenter23:45

Once you were elected an MP Theresa May, you made pretty rapid progress. You served as shadow spokesperson for education, then for women. You were appointed to the shadow cabinet as Secretary of State for Education and Employment. That was in nineteen ninety nine. Then Iain Duncan Smith appointed you as the first Woman Tory Party Chairman.

Presenter24:03

Bringing us bang up to date to Home Secretary and being in power, in late May, as I mentioned in the introduction, in late May of this year you addressed the Police Federation conference. As you stood at the podium, you calmly listed instances of gross misconduct, of racism, of incompetence, of corruption within the force spanning back over the last twenty or so years.

Presenter24:25

It was interesting to me that the Daily Mirror, hardly, I would imagine a natural ally of yours, called it one of the bravest, most astonishing political speeches for years, concluding that you had obliterated them.

Presenter24:37

Your speech famously was met with total silence in the auditorium from the delegates. What were you thinking as you left the stage?

Presenter24:47

Well, the reason I'd made the speech is because I believed there was an important message to give to the Police Federation.

Presenter24:54

When I left the stage, I suppose I was wondering what the next step for them was going to be.

Presenter24:59

because they were looking at whether or not they were going to reform. And of course, following that speech that afternoon, they did indeed vote to reform, and those reforms are now going through. We're recording this programme before the Rochester by-election, and David Cameron's promised an in-out referendum in twenty seventeen. I wonder if

Presenter25:18

Do you consider yourself a European?

Presenter25:20

Well, that's an interesting question because geographically, of course, we are part of Europe in the United Kingdom.

Rt Hon Theresa May25:26

In the United States.

Presenter25:29

What will you campaign for, happily in or happily out of the EU, when it comes to 2017? Well, what I campaign for will depend on what package that we have managed to negotiate with the European Union, because what the campaign will be about when it comes to that referendum will be about the Europe of the future, not the Europe of the past. And there are some specific issues, like free movement, which I think should be a part of our renegotiation and a key issue for us.

Presenter25:54

In 2013 it was noted by the media that you appeared to be losing weight and they speculated that ah yes, this was part of your slimming down bid to take over the Tory party. In fact, it was the very bad news that you've been diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, a very serious condition indeed. One of the symptoms includes chronic fatigue, and I am wondering how on earth you managed to carry on with such a demanding job at the time and to cope with this condition, understand it, begin to regulate it and at the same time do your job.

Presenter26:28

Well, I suppose it's about the attitude that I take to most things, which is just get on and deal with it, get on and do the job. I'm on an insulin regime, so I'm injecting insulin four times a day. So basically, when I have a main main meal, I inject, and then there's another base dose that I inject as well. And you just have to get into a routine. Time for some more music, Theresa May. Tell me about this then. You're sixth.

Presenter26:52

Yes, well I don't think anybody can go through life without listening to a bit of Mozart. And the piece I've chosen, I've chosen because it's from The Magic Flute, which is my husband's favourite opera. And I think I'd like something that I can try to sing to. I can't sing, but on a desert island, on my own. It's not going to matter how I sing. But hearing somebody else sing this well is just sensational.

Speaker 427:27

Why don't you?

Speaker 327:47

Hey, brother.

Presenter28:19

Part of the Queen of the Night aria from Mozart's magic flute sung there by Sheryl Struder, performed by the Academy of St Martins in the field, conducted by Sir Neville Mariner. And good luck, Theresa May, with learning how to sing that on your desert island. I didn't say I'd succeed. No, no, you're fine. I want to ask you about any potential bid for the leadership, and I can sort of feel your heart sinking as the question comes from my lips. I know you're I'm probably going to get nowhere with this, but I'm going to give it a good try anyway, because

Rt Hon Theresa May28:32

No, not every time.

Presenter28:45

When and if indeed it will come to pass that David Cameron at some point, for whatever reason, steps down, people say that they think you would make a very good leader of the Conservative Party.

Presenter28:57

Will you consider it at some point, if the situation is right? Look, my view is very simple. David Cameron is a first-class leader of the party and a first-class Prime Minister. I hope he's going to be doing that job for a very long time. And you say, my heart probably sinks when you ask the question. It is interesting. I can't think of any other aspect of life where somebody would be elected to the number one position, and almost immediately the journalist starts speculating on who might be trying to take over. But I'm not asking you if you're plotting. I'm not asking you if there are secret machinations going on. I'm simply asking you that if the opportunity presents itself whereby

Rt Hon Theresa May29:27

If a ranch is

Presenter29:38

The party needs a new leader. Is it a job you would like to do?

Presenter29:42

And I'm saying that I hope that David Cameron is going to carry on being the leader of the party for a very long time.

Presenter29:48

Apart from being good at avoiding very direct questions on occasions, what have you learnt as you have been Home Secretary, and what has it taught you about yourself, about people?

Presenter29:58

I think one of the aspects of being Home Secretary, of course, is that you tend to see some of the most difficult aspects of life. And in a sense, that's been brought home to me in most recently in a couple of issues, the work we're doing on modern slavery.

Presenter30:13

and the whole question of child sexual exploitation.

Presenter30:17

incidents of child abuse that have taken place in the past and haven't been properly resolved, the perpetrators not being brought to justice, but also more recently, as we've seen in the Rotherham case, child sexual exploitation taking place on the streets of our towns and cities today.

Presenter30:33

And I think this is an issue where we have only just begun.

Presenter30:39

to even start to recognize the enormity of this question.

Presenter30:44

And of course for many people understanding.

Presenter30:47

Mr. President, how historical abuse managed not just to take hold but to go unchallenged at the highest level for so many years is fundamental to the success of moving forward, and we know that you have appointed two people to head up this historical abuse inquiry. Both of these women have had to step down. It does not surely reflect well upon you that thus far you have failed to find a suitable person to lead this inquiry. Indeed, you

Presenter31:15

You had to apologise in the House of Commons for that. Yes, and I am sorry that we've had two attempts to appoint a chairman, and both of those have ended in the individuals feeling that they had to resign. But it is, I think it is, hugely important for us that this inquiry does its work. These are issues, both the degree to which this has taken place, but also this question of a cover-up. And why was it that in some cases in the very institutions that were there that should have been looking after children, that these abuses were allowed to take place, and the people who were abusing these children got away with it. And as you are well aware, the survivors of abuse, some of them indeed very, very angry, what they say is, why should it be up to us to point out the deficiencies in these chairs? Why is it not the Home Secretary taking enough care and showing enough judgment to do it herself?

Presenter32:11

Well, there is a challenge to us at the Home Office that we need to look at how we are going to vet individuals who come forward. We're now receiving a lot of names being brought forward by colleagues in the House of Commons, by survivors' groups, by people just writing in and suggesting names. And we will look at how we vet people. We will look again at what the processes are that we need to go through so that we can ensure the inquiry can do its job. Time to move on, Theresa May. Let's have your seventh disc then of the morning. Tell me about this.

Presenter32:40

Well, this is something where I I suddenly thought when I was looking at uh what I should ha thinking about what I should have that it'd be quite nice to have something to laugh to um and uh to sort of enliven my mood uh on occasions. And I think probably there's nothing better for a government minister than an episode of Yes, Minister.

Rt Hon Theresa May32:59

There are in fact only three hundred and forty two administrative staff at the New St. Edwards Hospital. The other one seventy are porters, cleaners, laundry workers, gardeners, cooks, and so forth. How many medical staff? Oh, none of them.

Rt Hon Theresa May33:13

None.

Rt Hon Theresa May33:15

We are talking about St. Edward's Hospital, aren't we, Bernard? Oh yes, it's brand new. It was completed 15 months ago and fully staffed, but unfortunately, there were government cutbacks at that time, and there was consequently no money left for medical services. A brand new hospital with 500 non-medical staff and no patients? Oh, there is one patient, Minister. One? Yes, the deputy chief administrator fell over a piece of scaffolding and broke his leg.

Presenter33:40

Yes, Minister, written by Anthony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, and that was an episode from 1981 entitled The Compassionate Society. Paul Eddington played Jim Hacker, the Minister for the Department of Administrative Affairs, with Derek Folds as his principal private secretary, Bernard. Theresa May, is it true that you were once so frustrated by a civil servant's inability to answer a direct question you started banging your head on the desk?

Presenter34:06

Well, I didn't quite bang my head on the desk. It was sort of in despair that I leant forward onto the desk. And somebody said to me afterwards that it was at that point they understood that I really meant what I was talking about. Right, so that's a yes then. And I gather you have around about 100 cookbooks. If I was lucky enough to be invited round to your house for supper, I'm not expecting it to happen any day soon. But what would you cook me then? What could you rustle up? Oh, goodness me. Well, I'd have to spend quite a bit of time looking through the cookbooks to decide what mood I was in. Was it Italian? Was it Ottolenghi? Was it. Because I genuinely enjoy cooking a huge variety of types of food. And I've read Not Delia. It's so precise. So I prefer the kind of Jamie, a handful of this and a handful of that approach. So I'm about to cast you away then. No more sort of 24-7 on call, no more red boxes. She's a smiling listener. Tell me about your final piece, your eighth disc of the morning, Theresa May. What is it?

Speaker 334:59

Sir.

Presenter35:04

Yes, this is back again to in a sense the role that the church has played in in my life and I think what I would like is my favourite hymn, Sung by Congregation, so I can get that feel of being in a body of a church with the people around me.

Speaker 336:19

I suggest that

Presenter36:30

When I survey the Wondrous Cross with words by Isaac Watts, sung to the tune of Rockingham, and it was sung there by the Wesley Chapel congregation. So, Theresa May, it is time for me to give you the books. I will give you the Bible.

Presenter36:42

And the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take another book along, too, to this island. What is your book going to be? Do you know this is one of the hardest things I've found. But actually, when it comes to it, I think I'd like a novel, and I will take pride and prejudice. It's yours. And a luxury, too. What will your luxury be? Now, I'm not sure if you're going to allow this. Try it. I would like to have a lifetime subscription to Vogue. Yes, it's yours. And finally, of the eight tracks that you have chosen here today, which one would you save from the waves? I think I'd save the Mozart. It's yours. Theresa Mayhem, Secretary, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Oh, it's been a huge pleasure. Thank you very much indeed for the opportunity.

Presenter38:04

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter38:06

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4