Debbie Wiseman

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the composer Debbie Wiseman. Her work is wide-ranging, but her talents are most often employed in crafting lyrical, melodic scores for film and TV. If you've watched Land Girls, Judge John Deede, Haunted, Lost Christmas, and countless other productions, hers is the music woven through the storyline atmosphere and pace of the drama. Now a visiting professor at the Royal College, her unlikely introduction to music came through a bashed-up old piano sitting in the corner of a hotel dining room. Even though it was mostly used for storing the spoons, she felt aged eight an overwhelming want to discover what it could do, and was soon racing through her musical grades. She says, Seeing those little black dots on the stave and the language of it, I understood it all immediately. It was as if it had always been there. It made complete sense. So, Debbie, much of your work for films involves, of course, inevitably writers and actors and directors. I'm wondering from the point of view of the viewer how you would encapsulate the importance of a good film score.

Debbie Wiseman1:39

For me, it's everything that you can't actually see on screen. So we can see the gorgeous cinematography, we can see the actors. What we can't see is the subtext, what's going on underneath, what the actors are perhaps feeling. And often a director will say to me, Look, I've shot this scene and you know what? It hasn't got quite enough passion in it. You know, it's a love scene and there isn't enough passion there. Can the music add passion? Can it add what isn't there necessarily on the screen?

Presenter2:05

Um should we as viewers actually notice the individual component that is the score? Or should it be sort of s a kind of sensory blending? We almost are entirely unaware that we've been gathered up by the music as we've been watching.

Debbie Wiseman2:20

I think it's a mixture of the two.

Debbie Wiseman2:23

The music is not center stage. I mean, if I wanted to write a concert piece, I'd write for the concert hall. You know, the audience is completely listening to the music on its own in the concert hall. But when they're in the cinema, they need to experience the whole, and the whole is the lighting, the costume, the drama, the acting, and the score. But the score is so important. You know, I watch a film without music all the time, but most people will never see a film without music, so can't really appreciate the massive power it has over the images.

Presenter2:53

And when you're working, where does the score begin? Can it be while you're loading the dishwasher or walking the dog or at the piano, it's always at the piano.

Debbie Wiseman3:02

Yeah. The thing is, what I love about this job is that there's a film to inspire me. So I'm sitting at the piano and I'm watching images, and my job is to

Presenter3:02

Is it?

Debbie Wiseman3:13

Write music that helps that storytelling and somehow feel so seamless with it that that music was always intended to be with those pictures. They could never be apart. It's so intriguing.

Presenter3:23

Interesting that you said just a moment ago that sometimes a director will say to you, you know, I didn't quite get the performance that gave me the passion, or the lighting didn't quite dictate that scene as it should have been. You need to bring that to this scene. Are you ever stuck in a situation where you think, I mean, I'm good, but I'm not that good?

Debbie Wiseman3:38

Not that good. Well, the music can't save a bad film. You know, if a film isn't working, it's not working, and the music won't be able to save it.

Debbie Wiseman3:46

But a bad score can ruin a film, that's for sure.

Presenter3:49

Yeah.

Debbie Wiseman3:50

Some music. Tell me about your f First one then, what have you ch Josen and Why?

Presenter3:53

Yeah.

Debbie Wiseman3:53

Well, if you cast your mind back to twenty twelve when it was the Queen's Diamond Jubilee pageant, some composers were invited to write a piece of new water music, and I was included in that lovely invitation.

Debbie Wiseman4:05

And I was invited to write a piece of new water music based on the title of Handel's original water music. And the title I was given was Gig, which is sometimes called Country Dance. And then we were on the barge, I was invited to get on the Georgian barge on the day and conduct my piece. And of course, we all now know how terrible the weather was on that day. And it poured with rain and we all got thoroughly soaked. But my lasting memory of it is floating up the river, millions of people lining the river banks, waving and smiling, this overwhelming feeling of goodwill. And on that day, everyone felt so proud to be British.

Presenter5:41

The Country Dance from Handel's Water Music played by The Consort of London conducted by Robert Hayden Clark. So, Debbie Wiseman, just take me through your working day. When does it begin and end, and what happens in it?

Debbie Wiseman5:52

It very much depends on what I'm working on at the time. But if I've got a deadline, I will start very, very early. I love first thing in the morning. So I'll get up really, really early, um quarter to six at the piano, you know, writing early. That's the piano at quarter to six.

Presenter6:07

Click on the

Debbie Wiseman6:09

The best time of the day, girls, it really is. Because there's nobody around, it's quiet, it's such a beautiful part of the day, and I love it. I love between about six and nine.

Presenter6:20

And you say writing to a deadline, g give me an extreme what's the most ludicrous deadline you've ever written?

Debbie Wiseman6:24

Well, there've there've been many, many ludicrous.

Debbie Wiseman6:28

The score for Wild I had to compose in three and a half weeks. It was about 70 minutes of orchestral music because there was a problem with the production. I was brought in very, very late in the day.

Debbie Wiseman6:37

Sometimes on films I've written about two hours of music in about six weeks.

Presenter6:41

One of your most commercially popular pieces uh I mean it went into the classical charts and did very well, as I understand it, was one that you'd written in the shortest time. Did that tell you anything about your own creative process, do you think?

Debbie Wiseman6:49

Did that tell you anything about your own creative

Debbie Wiseman6:52

But there is something about having to focus. I don't like not having a deadline. If I didn't have a deadline, I think I would waffle and I'd sit at the piano and procrastinate. But having that deadline, knowing that you're going to be in the studio on Friday with an 80-piece orchestra, is a fantastic way of getting the compositional juices flowing. So you must be highly disciplined as an individual. Yes, you absolutely have to be highly disciplined. But most musicians are, because when you're learning a musical instrument, you have to practice in order to get better. So that discipline is very well ingrained from a very young age. Does that discipline...

Presenter7:26

Transfer into other elements of your life. I mean, you're one of those people, if I came and poked my nose round your freezer or your sweater drawer, would it all be sort of beautifully ordered and.

Debbie Wiseman7:33

No, no, completely the opposite. The only area where I am perfectly disciplined is in my music. My knicker drawer is a disaster area. My sweater drawer, my everywhere else in my life is not structured as well as it is with music. But with music, you have to be structured. It's no good going into a studio and just saying to musicians, do what you like, see what happens. It'll be a mess. Nothing will happen.

Debbie Wiseman7:59

Let's have your second piece, Debbie Wiseman. Tell me about disc number two. Well, when I was about eight, a friend of my mother's, who was a pianist and a ranger, gave me a little book of Beatles tunes, specially arranged for small hands. And I was just starting to learn the piano, so I was learning all the little repertoire handle and Mozart little pieces and scales and arpeggios. But here was a book of pop songs, and it was so exciting. All these little wonderful perfect melodies, playing them.

Debbie Wiseman8:27

Easily, because they were arranged for small hands. And the very first piece I learnt from the book was Eleanor Rigby. And if you think about the tune of Eleanor Rigby, it sits so easily: da da da da da da da da da, you know, because all the notes are very close together, there are no giant leaps or very few. And I learnt that first, and I think it just fired my imagination and made me realize how much fun it was to make music.

Speaker 38:50

Helena Rigby picks up the rice in her church where her wedding has been.

Speaker 38:57

Lives in a dream, waits at the window, Wearing the face that she keeps in her jar by the door.

Speaker 39:06

Who is it far on the lady beyond?

Speaker 39:11

Where do they all come from?

Speaker 39:15

All the merry people.

Speaker 39:18

I do they're all behind

Presenter9:21

The Beatles and Eleanor Rigby. So, Debbie Wiseman, you were born, I don't really need to tell you this, you were born in 1963. Your mum and dad, Barbara and Paul, you were born into a house in North London. A musical family? Not at all.

Debbie Wiseman9:32

No, absolutely nobody in the family had played music or was interested in it. I think there was a great grandfather somewhere down the line that was an opera singer, but it's very vague.

Presenter9:42

And your mother had at one point, before she married and had a family, had wanted herself to perform in in what respect?

Debbie Wiseman9:47

Yes, I think she would have loved to have been an actress. And when she was young, it was a rather unsavoury, slightly unstable profession. And she was encouraged not to do it.

Presenter9:53

Might be on st

Debbie Wiseman9:58

And so she got married and had kids and she poured all everything into us. And I think she really at the beginning she wanted me to be an actress. Did you ever want to be? No, well, no, but there you know, I tried when I was little for her. And there was a great moment when the school play arrived and uh

Presenter10:05

Did you

Debbie Wiseman10:15

Yeah, I don't think it went terribly well. It was a great school play. There was a king, a queen, and a couple of princesses. And then on the day of announcing the parts, I went and had a look to see what part I'd got. There was the king, there was the queen, and it went down Iron Shirt 1, which is a kind of guard, Iron Shirt 2, Iron Shirt 3. That was me. I'd got Iron Shirt 3. Right. So we're not the great start. But then the day of the performance came, and I had one line, which was Enter the King. And I was standing at the gate saying, Enter the King. No King. Looked over to where the King was supposed to enter, and there was this poor girl, because it was an all-girls' school and we all played all the parts. There was this poor girl, obviously got terrible stage fright. We've all been there. We've all been there, and she didn't come on. And instead of being rather professional and carrying on with the play, I just collapsed into this terrible fit of giggles, which started off the rest of the cast. And I think my mother was probably sitting in the audience at that very moment thinking this girl will never be an actress.

Presenter11:12

What about this bashed-up old piano that I mentioned in the introduction then? You were on holiday with your parents and you just saw it in the corner of the dining room and

Debbie Wiseman11:18

Yeah.

Presenter11:18

What what happened when you saw it?

Debbie Wiseman11:19

Well, I just was fascinated by it, and I must have been the most annoying little girl in that hotel because every time there was an empty dining room, I would sneak in and try and play.

Debbie Wiseman11:31

I think it was just wanting to discover the sound it made, you know, and and the look of it, the black and white keys, everything about it I absolutely loved. And this poor piano was used as a as a cutlery drawer, you know, they kept teaspoons in it. It was so bashed up, it must have made the most horrendous sound.

Presenter11:47

But presumably yes, given that it would have made a horrendous sound even if you'd been a sort of Mozart prodigy type did you get any tune out of it?

Debbie Wiseman11:52

Yeah.

Debbie Wiseman11:54

Probably not. I mean, my mother that this may be a a sort of lovely mi memory now, but I th she she thought that I was making little tunes at the piano, but I probably wasn't. I was probably just bashing it like any kid does.

Presenter12:05

And your father was a a businessman. He trained as an accountant himself.

Debbie Wiseman12:09

Yeah.

Presenter12:10

He didn't want you to get a piano at home, did he?

Debbie Wiseman12:12

Oh, there was a big family row which went on for months actually because, you know, he was very practical, a great businessman, but not creative. And, you know, he brought out all the all the usual excuses, we haven't got enough money, we haven't got any space, it's going to make a noise, all those sort of things. But my mother had this big personality and she wouldn't give up. And in the end, after months of big arguments,

Debbie Wiseman12:36

My father had to give in and they compromised and they said, Okay, we'll hire a piano but then of course the minute it arrived I never wanted to leave it. Yeah.

Presenter12:44

Let's have your next piece of music. Time for your third. Tell me about this. What are we going to hear now, Debbie?

Debbie Wiseman12:48

Well when I auditioned for Guildhall I had to prepare a piano piece and I prepared Mozart's piano sonata in Bb major, which was probably a slightly crazy thing to do because it's hugely difficult. But I would listen over and over again to Horowitz's performance, which I absolutely love. I think if I spent my entire life trying to learn this piece, I would never get anywhere close to that just the mastery of his performance. I think I've listened to this piece so many times, immersed myself in it so much, I honestly think I began to believe that I'd actually written this music, which was obviously just completely delusional, wishful thinking.

Presenter14:16

Part of Mozart's piano sonata in B-flat major, played there by Vladimir Horowitz. Debbie Wiseman, as you were sort of wheaking your way through the music grades, it must have been clear to not just your piano teacher, but to your parents as well, that here was a girl who really had something going for her in terms of talent. Just give me an indication of how quickly you managed them.

Debbie Wiseman14:37

Well, I think I got to about grade eight when when I was about ten or eleven, something like that. Ridiculous, really. But that's because I was completely obsessed with it. I did nothing else. My French, my my English, my maths at school.

Debbie Wiseman14:52

Went by the board a little.

Presenter14:54

And you have said that there was a time when you were a child that writing songs particularly was you described it as an escape when you were younger. What what were you escaping from?

Debbie Wiseman15:04

Everything. I mean, anything that was difficult, anything that was tough, anything that was sad. Music is a great.

Debbie Wiseman15:11

It's a great escape. I mean, all through my life, whenever I've had to face anything that's been difficult, music has been there as the answer to it.

Presenter15:20

So when when some of us might go and pour ourselves a la a large sort of glass of red wine or or open the biscuit tin, y you go to the piano, do you?

Debbie Wiseman15:27

Yes, I do. I go to the piano or I write. It's so all consuming. When I'm writing, I can't c consider anything else. I can't think about anything else because I'm so involved in the music. So any pain, any upset that that's happened I mean, after my mother died, it was a it was a terribly sad time.

Debbie Wiseman15:44

And the one thing that that kept me going was writing music, because I I knew that in a way that that that was her gift to me and that I could I could release any tension, any anything, through the writing of the music.

Presenter15:59

So as you were beginning to develop your skills and your articulacy as a musician, one thing that was fundamental in that, as I understand it, was this Saturday music school that you attended. What what was it that happened there?

Debbie Wiseman16:13

Well, on a Saturday morning I'd go to this wonderful Saturday Junior course at Trinity College of Music, and we'd do everything that you wouldn't do at school in a piano lesson. So we'd do improvisation and singing and harmony and playing in groups. It was so exciting. I used to live for those Saturday mornings, getting up to the college and just loving every second of it.

Presenter16:35

Tell me about your next disliken. What have you chosen?

Debbie Wiseman16:37

Josen and Y.

Debbie Wiseman16:38

Well, when I started music college, we were encouraged to write quite experimental music, avant-garde music.

Debbie Wiseman16:45

And although I could understand that kind of music academically and and theoretically, it didn't draw pictures for me. It didn't draw me in emotionally. So I was struggling. It was a big stumbling block when I started. And then my brother

Debbie Wiseman16:59

brought me home a recording of Messian's Tarangalila symphony and suddenly a whole new world opened up because here was music that was modern and contemporary and exciting and vivid. I mean Messian calls this piece a hymn to joy and it is an absolutely jubilant piece and hugely importantly for me it just paints these vivid vibrant pictures.

Presenter18:19

Part of the tenth movement of Olivier Messian's Terengelila Symphony, played there by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Kent Nagano. Tell us a little bit more then, Debbie Wiseman, about life at the Guild Hall. I mean, I'm sure you arrived there, thrilled to have gotten in, full of you know, you seem a very enthusiastic, positive character. Was it a positive environment? It was.

Debbie Wiseman18:39

was it was magical. You know, I thought I'd walked into fame, you know, or something like that,'cause there was the drama department and the music department, they were putting on musicals and shows and

Debbie Wiseman18:48

What I loved was going into the college and then walking down the corridors and in every rehearsal practice room you'd hear somebody playing a different type of music. You'd hear a flautist playing something gorgeous and then you'd hear a a big band and then you'd hear a drummer and then you'd hear a percussionist and it was the most exciting place to be. I felt hugely privileged to have got a place there.

Presenter19:10

Um Buxton Orr was was one of your um tutors there, the composer. How did you get on with him? What sort of character was he?

Debbie Wiseman19:18

Well, very badly to start with, because he he was very clever and quite stern and quite pedantic about the way he expected music to appear on the page.

Debbie Wiseman19:28

And of course I was so green when I arrived at at college. I I had no idea how to write music. I I very quickly discovered that being able to write a tune does not make you into a kind of fully rounded composer. So it was a very difficult first six months because everything I brought him he didn't like. He would, you know, put a red pen through it. Ev everything. Pretty much everything, yes, because it was all rubbish. You know, it was all terrible. Can I just ask you, what was rubbish about it? What was wrong with it? Oh, it wasn't written well for the instruments. It was badly orchestrated. He was pedantic about orchestration.

Presenter19:45

Every

Debbie Wiseman20:00

When you write for an instrument, you must know how to write for it. Don't write out of its range, don't write stupid things that they can't play, which is perfectly sensible, but you have to learn how to do that.

Presenter20:10

How did you

Debbie Wiseman20:10

Good. Take off.

Presenter20:11

All this criticism because, you know, to get you there, you obviously were somebody who had been praised and admired for the fact that you were this, first of all, little girl and then, you know, young teenager who could do it. You get to the guild hall and suddenly you're telling, well, you can't do anything.

Debbie Wiseman20:26

You're starting from scratch. Absolutely. I absolutely felt like that, that I was starting from scratch. So, how did you deal with the criticism? Do you take it? Very badly, very badly at the start. I was very upset, as you would be, and it felt very difficult those first six, seven, eight months. But the thing that drove me was that I knew everything Buxton was saying was right. I just couldn't implement it. I knew that the way he was teaching me was brilliant, but I just couldn't do it. Can you remember the first time he gave you a positive comment and didn't put the red press? Absolutely vividly. And I took him a piece, it was a little string quintet.

Presenter20:33

Very badly.

Presenter20:55

And didn't put the red p.

Debbie Wiseman21:02

He just sort of half smiled, and I'd never seen him smile before in any of our lessons. And after that I think he he could see that some of what he'd been teaching me and saying had sunk in. But I honestly think that without his persistence I would never have had a chance of a career as a composer.

Presenter21:17

Techn

Debbie Wiseman21:17

Yeah.

Presenter21:17

Of your next piece of music. Tell me about this. What are we gonna hear?

Debbie Wiseman21:20

Well this is actually a piece by Buxton Or.

Debbie Wiseman21:23

What I love about it is it reminds me of his kind of Scottish roots. It's unmistakably Celtic in its feel. It reminds me of the sort of twinkle he had in his eye when he talked about things that he was passionate about. And also importantly, it reminds me of his sense of humour, which I only discovered about two years into getting to know him. And this piece reminds me of everything that was great about Buxton. I just wish his music was played more on radio and performed more, so that more people could enjoy it and appreciate it and love it as much as I do.

Presenter22:55

The Allegro Legero from the third movement of the Caledonian Suite composed by Buxton Orr and played there by the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama, Wind Orchestra and Academy Brass. So tell me, Debbie Wiseman, clearly you had this wonderful training, you had great talent and skill. How did you end up playing a band that was doing covers at weddings in Barmit?

Debbie Wiseman23:14

Weddings and Bar Mitzvahs. Well, it's not nobody advertises for a composer, you know, it's not the sort of job you can just go and audition for. So when I left college I knew that I wanted to write music for pictures, but it was how do you go about it? And I didn't know anybody in the business, so

Debbie Wiseman23:30

My husband, who I met at Music College, has a great singing voice, and we decided that the best thing to do would be to form a band, and that way we could work in the evening playing for weddings and permits for some parties. And it would leave a day free for writing and for trying to get a little break in composing. And I had lots of music that I'd recorded when I was at college, so I would just send it out to every director, every producer that I knew, and see if they would listen to it. And eventually, after a couple of years, I got a break. So, what is it like?

Presenter23:59

Like when you are working with a director, as you must do, you know, week in, week out, throughout the year, and th they sort of know what they want, but they do not understand the building blocks of

Debbie Wiseman24:12

Why why would they? They're not composers, they're not musicians, in the same way that I don't understand camera technique or editing skills. But they're creative people, and I always get them to talk to me in terms of the story and the characters and what they want the music to bring to the film, rather than quavers and semi quavers and instruments.

Presenter24:30

And do they ever sit there sort of nodding and listening and then it finishes and they say, No, we absolutely definitely don't like that.

Debbie Wiseman24:35

Yeah, absolutely. My first film that I did, Tom and Viv, about T. S. Eliot, the director came over, I'd written about twenty minutes of music, absolutely everything he said no to first time. And I was heartbroken afterwards because I thought I I've got to start again. Where do I start again?

Debbie Wiseman24:53

But again, it's something that comes with more experience and I I wouldn't find it difficult to do that now. But then I had to completely throw away twenty minutes of music and start again. And was it a moment of confrontation? Or did you just quietly and meekly slope off and start? Yes. I mean, it was my first film. I wasn't in a position to argue.

Presenter25:06

I I quietly amuse.

Presenter25:11

Uh

Debbie Wiseman25:11

Uh

Presenter25:11

Do not

Debbie Wiseman25:11

Yeah.

Presenter25:12

Very possibly.

Presenter25:14

Right, time for your next piece then. Tell me about this. Your sixth?

Debbie Wiseman25:18

Well, when I was a teenager, I went to the cinema with a group of mates and we saw On Golden Pond. And actually, thinking about it now, it's quite a weird film choice for a teenager because it was about aging, enduring love, starred Catherine Hepburn, Henry Fonder. And it was at a time when opening titles in films were unhurried and they allowed you to be drawn into the story.

Debbie Wiseman25:39

And this did exactly that, and the opening titles was images of water and ducks on the pond and birds.

Debbie Wiseman25:45

And then there was this gorgeous Dave Grusen piano piece, which started at the very start of the film, completely drew you into the mood of the film in such a delicate, expressive way. And I remember sitting in the cinema thinking,

Debbie Wiseman26:01

Wow, writing music for pictures, this has got to be the best job in the world.

Presenter26:55

The piano theme from the film On Golden Pond, composed and played by Dave Grusin. You're working right now, Debbie Wiseman, on the BBC T V adaptation of uh Wolf Hall. I have to Hilary Mantel, of course. It will be hotly anticipated. The pressure must be great to get it right. Have you been in since the very beginning?

Debbie Wiseman27:14

I have on this particular project because it's I'm working with a director that I've worked with many times before, Peter Kosminski, and he brought me in right at the very, very start at script stage. I've tried out all sorts of different things on him, all different orchestrations, all different instruments. We're going to use some Tudor instruments, some Western instruments, some modern, a whole mixture of stuff.

Presenter27:35

As I listen to you talk, I mean, your enthusiasm is clear and obviously the talent and the hard work you've put in has paid off and will continue to do so. I'm wondering throughout all these years, what have been the sacrifices for you?

Debbie Wiseman27:48

Quite a lot of sacrifices. I mean, not having such a wide and varied social life. You know, a lot of the time I have to call up my mates and say, sorry, I just can't make it this evening. Luckily, I've got a hugely supportive husband who I love being with. And we share the same passions. He loves music. We have the same values. The only thing actually we don't share is a love of football because he is crazy about football, particularly his beloved Leeds United. And what do you do to relax that's not related to music? I go swimming. I love swimming. And it might surprise you to know that I love snooker. And I play snooker, it has a lot of similar characteristics to music in that you have to completely immerse yourself in the game when you're playing snooker. And the sound of it, the sound of the balls and the accuracy and the precision of it I love, which is not a million miles away from that sort of practice makes perfect kind of mentality you have to have as a musician.

Presenter28:27

Plat does surprise me too.

Presenter28:49

Time for your next piece. What are we gonna hear now, Debbie Wiseman?

Debbie Wiseman28:52

I love the sea, I love being by the sea.

Debbie Wiseman28:55

And Debussy's La Mer for me is just a masterpiece of conjuring up images of the ocean. And he finished it at Eastbourne.

Debbie Wiseman29:03

At the Grand Hotel.

Debbie Wiseman29:05

Not looking out at the Pacific or the Mediterranean as you might expect, this was the English Channel.

Debbie Wiseman29:10

And my mum and dad loved Eastbourne and we used to go there a lot and I would go with them with my husband and we'd go on family weekend breaks. And so this piece reminds me of all the lovely times we had together with my parents in Eastbourne. And I think musically these are probably the most shimmering, luminous, glistening waves that you'll ever hear in a piece of music.

Presenter30:28

Play of the Waves The second movement of De Bussy's Lamaire played by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Daniel Barrenboyne.

Presenter30:36

Debbie Wiseman, we know that your father wasn't keen in the beginning for you to get a piano. I wonder, as your success built and you had this very solid career, um, did your parents uh come and watch premieres of your work? Did they enjoy watching

Debbie Wiseman30:48

By watching. Yes, they absolutely loved it. And my father couldn't have been prouder at the end. I mean, he was hugely proud, as was my mum. So they yes, the great thrill for them to come and listen to a performance or a concert or come to a premiere of a film.

Debbie Wiseman31:01

Yeah.

Presenter31:01

You've won plenty of awards, lots of nominations too, for your scores. You're recipient of the Gold Badge of Merit from the British Academy of Composers and Songwriters. Is is public recognition important?

Debbie Wiseman31:13

Not public recognition really. I mean, it's it's I like working with directors and I like them to like what I'm doing and the producers to like what I'm doing. That's important to me.

Presenter31:24

Uh

Debbie Wiseman31:24

As long as they're happy, I'm happy.

Presenter31:25

When you were starting out on on you know, you've had to be pretty tenacious to to to be as recognised and as successful as you are. Is there anything that you wish you'd known back then about the the art and the work of composing?

Debbie Wiseman31:39

I'm not sure there's anything I would have known because every project is different. I always think when I finish a project, ah, you know, I've got it right now. I know exactly what I'm doing. This is the way to do it. And then I start another one, and it's almost like you're starting again. So you never can know it all. You know, you can never know what to expect. That's what I love about it, actually, the danger of the job. Because the minute you finish one job, you're kind of out of work and then you've got to wait for the next one. And I've been so fortunate that the commissions have kept coming. And I've worked with some fantastically talented people. You're a visiting.

Presenter32:10

Young professor at the Royal College of Music, as we know. What would be your advice to would-be composers?

Debbie Wiseman32:18

I would pass on what Buxton told me, which I thought was very clever and invaluable, was that write something every day, even if it's rubbish and you throw it out afterwards, write something every day, because it keeps your compositional juices flowing and you'll never run out of ideas.

Presenter32:33

So, Debbie Wiseman, tell me about your next disc then, your final one today, your eighths. What are we going to hear?

Presenter32:39

Uh

Debbie Wiseman32:39

Well, one of my favorite film composers is John Barry. I think Out of Africa Dances with Wolves. Those scores are just timeless, beautiful, haunting, memorable.

Debbie Wiseman32:50

But I've chosen a track to take on my desert island that actually is not John Barry writing for a film. This is him writing pure John Barry, just the music that he wants to write. It's from an album called The Beyondness of Things. And what's so interesting about his music is that even when he's writing away from a film, his music conjures up these images of glorious sunsets or wide open spaces or an expanse of ocean. You just sit back and you can picture these images. This piece I think is just hauntingly beautiful. It's introspective and it's pure John Barry.

Presenter34:21

John Barry's The Beyondness of Things performed by the English Chamber Orchestra. So I'm going to give you the books now to take with you to your desert island. Debbie Wiseman, I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take another book along. What's your book going to be? Uh

Debbie Wiseman34:34

I'm going to take, if I may, the Penguin Book of English Verse because it covers over 600 years of English poetry. There's Chaucer and Wordsworth and Keats and Dylan Thomas. And I love setting words to music so I could think of little tunes to suit the poetry. I could sing them to myself. And the wonderful thing about being on a desert island is that because there's nobody else around, I could sing these wonderful songs that I'm going to be writing on the island. And nobody would be around to listen to my dreadful singing voice and tell me to shut up. So it's a win-win. And a luxury item too.

Presenter35:04

Yeah.

Speaker 435:04

Uh

Presenter35:04

Uh

Debbie Wiseman35:10

Could I have a grand piano and could I also have some manuscript paper and an everlasting pencil? You certainly can. Is there a particular piano you want? No, just a lovely grand piano, because I think I've got my pictures on the island because I can look out and there's the fantastic landscape and the sea and the wildlife and the insects and the birds to inspire me. And I would be able to write music just looking at what's in front of me. And then at the end of the day, when it started to get dark and a bit colder, because I'm saying practical, I think I'd find it very difficult to

Presenter35:17

Is there a

Debbie Wiseman35:44

make a shelter, or look for wood, or tie a knot, or start a fire, so I could shut the lid of the piano.

Debbie Wiseman35:51

And then I could wriggle underneath it and it would double as a shelter. What a very splendid idea. And which one of these eight tracks would you save?

Debbie Wiseman36:00

The messian, because I could listen to that music a thousand times a day and still find something wonderful in it and something new.

Presenter36:09

It's yours, Debbie Wiseman. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island.

Debbie Wiseman36:12

Thank you. It's been great to be here. I'm a castaway now. Just tell me what time the boat's leaving, and I'm there.

Presenter36:57

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter37:00

You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.