Steve McQueen

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the artist and director Steve McQueen. These days his talents are well recognised. His art has won the Turner Prize and his most recent movie, Twelve Years a Slave, scooped an Academy Award, a BAFTA and a Golden Globe for Best Picture. He wasn't always as lauded. At school in West London he was at one point shoved to one side in the belief that the best he could hope for was to earn his living as a manual labourer.

Presenter0:59

Instead he chose art, portraying the extremes of what human beings put themselves and others through, what he has called dancing with ghosts. Along with reaching the top of two professions, he has also managed to meet the divergent demands of his parents. His father wanted him to get a trade his mother, on the other hand, urged him to do what you want to do.

Presenter1:19

He says, I want to make films that are essential. We're all going to die and we haven't got a lot of time on this planet. Life goes very quickly, so we might as well make films that people will go to see because they need it or want it. And I think, Steve McQueen, that is a really interesting and wonderful phrase, films that are essential. What's essential to you in a movie?

Steve McQueen1:40

Truth, um whatever that is.

Steve McQueen1:43

And there are many trues, of course.

Steve McQueen1:46

You could smell it. You know, there's a sort of um

Steve McQueen1:49

Universality to it. That's the kind of films I'm interested in. That's the kind of art I'm interested in.

Presenter1:54

I'm an Oscar winning film director, as we know then, for Twelve Years a Slave. At the same time that Twelve Years a Slave was released, you also made an artwork called Lynching Tree, and that depicted a tree in New Orleans that had served as a gallow for slaves.

Presenter2:08

It seemed to me that it was very important that both of those things were happening at once and that the the art is everything. You know, I described you as I was introducing you as an artist and movie maker, but I but actually it's all the one thing. You're putting things out there and it all has equality, does it?

Steve McQueen2:23

Yes, absolutely. There's no sort of the differentiation of

Steve McQueen2:27

film or art or, you know, for me, you know, being sort of, you know, first sort of being a a so called a an artist and then sort of now being a f a sort of sort of filmmaker it's it's it's just art, it's one thing. I mean

Steve McQueen2:40

film being as if film was the novel and and art, fine art being poetry. It's the same thing, but saying it in different ways. One is narrative, linear and the other one is abstract and fragmented. It's all about ideas for me. But the ideas

Steve McQueen2:56

Ask for the form

Steve McQueen2:58

You know, you're led by the idea and what it wants to be, how it wants to represent itself.

Steve McQueen3:03

And sometimes it wants to be, you know

Steve McQueen3:06

Photograph, sometimes it wants to be a um uh uh an artwork as as within film or whatever, sometimes it wants to be a narrative feature film.

Presenter3:13

In the eighty-six-year history of the Academy Awards, it was much commented upon that you were the first black director whose movie won Best Picture.

Presenter3:22

But is th was that important to you, or was it just important to other people?

Steve McQueen3:26

No, it's not important to me at all. There's nothing I don't think black people can't do, so that's of no consequence to me. I mean, so what, as Miles Davis says?

Presenter3:34

Speaking of Miles Davis, then we're not going to hear him first, but we are going to hear some music. Tell me about your first track of the morning then. What is this and why particularly have you chosen this track?

Steve McQueen3:44

Well, the first track is Rock With You by Michael Jackson.

Steve McQueen3:49

I think it's one of the my dad had this brand new stereo, you know, in the late 70s, early 80s. What did it look like? Oh man, it was just this beautiful silver record player with the beautiful massive speakers. Me and my sister was like, oh my god, this is amazing. And of course, my dad was, you know, West Indian, the Sunday would blare out Jim Reeds. And of course, when their mom and dad went away, and also my dad had bought this one Michael Jackson album. I don't know why, I think my uncle was a drummer, gave it to him. And when they were out, we would play this record. Oh my God, we would dance, we would sweat. And of course, at the time, Michael Jackson being this sort of black superstar, it was just, yeah, great times.

Speaker 34:31

Girl, close your eyes, let that rhythm get in.

Speaker 34:40

Don't try to find it.

Speaker 34:43

Ain't nothing that you can

Speaker 34:48

He lets your mother

Speaker 34:52

Ebenezer

Speaker 34:55

Come on, you got a f

Speaker 34:57

Heat and a weekend ride the boogie Share that heat alone

Presenter5:06

That was Michael Jackson and Rock With You. I wonder, Steve McQueen, if you've come down yet from that huge, almost ludicrous wave of hype that surrounds winning Academy Awards. It was in it was in March of this year, and it's a storm of interest in you. Du d when it subsides, what does life feel like?

Steve McQueen5:18

This year

Steve McQueen5:24

Well, it it hasn't y it the the plane has just landed right now, so it it's kinda nice to sort of um have your feet on the ground and um yeah, there's still a buzz.

Presenter5:35

Twelve Years a Slave, of course, t tells the true story of Solomon Northup. He he was a free black man who was captured and taken to the Southern States, where he then literally spent twelve years as a slave. It was your partner, the historian and cultural critic Bianca Stitker, who unearthed the book. I heard that she wouldn't let you read it until she'd read every page. When you began reading Solomon Northup's words, and they were precisely his words, he had written that book. Can you remember the sensation?

Steve McQueen6:06

Wow.

Steve McQueen6:08

I couldn't believe it.

Steve McQueen6:10

I mean, I was at the same time reading it and being amazed by it. I was kind of angry with myself. How did I not know this book? How did I not know it?

Steve McQueen6:19

And how how wasn't Solomon Northrop's name known throughout the world? And that's when I decided I had to make this in into a film. I mean, you know, ninety seven years after the book was made, there was a girl, you know, who who who lived in Amsterdam.

Steve McQueen6:32

And Frank, who wrote this book, and Frank's diary. And it was just amazing to me that it echoed that.

Steve McQueen6:38

And obviously, I knew her name, but I didn't know his. And yeah, I wanted to sort of let the world know about it, really.

Steve McQueen6:43

Yeah.

Presenter6:43

Horrific and beautiful. The film is both of those things. I mean, it was shot.

Steve McQueen6:46

Things, you know.

Presenter6:48

With such majesty that that, of course, the hodder was magnified.

Steve McQueen6:54

Well, the fact of the matter is I am not interested in.

Steve McQueen6:58

um manipulating people.

Steve McQueen7:01

Complete opposite. I'm interested in.

Steve McQueen7:03

A truth. Now, the funny thing is that the most horrific things sometimes happen in the most beautiful places.

Steve McQueen7:10

For example, in the film The Beating of Patsy.

Steve McQueen7:14

You know, I wasn't making a horror film. Therefore, I wasn't gonna tell my D P, Sean Bobbitt, Sean, we're doing the whipping scene, can you put a dark lens on on that? Could you, you know, skew the angle in a bit?

Steve McQueen7:25

No, I cannot put a filter on life.

Steve McQueen7:29

And you know, it's about n not blinking. It's easy to make something uh look ugly because it makes it comfortable for the audience. It's worse when you make tell the truth and that you have it.

Presenter7:40

Let's have some music, Steve McQueen. Um, your second one. Tell me about this.

Presenter7:44

Boom.

Steve McQueen7:44

Okay.

Presenter7:44

Yeah.

Steve McQueen7:45

A bit of light in the darkness. Raspberry Beret by Prince. No, it's Joy. I mean, I was a huge Prince fan growing up, of course. It was as if James Brown and the Beatles had a baby. And, you know, and this song is beautiful. It's sexy. It's fun. It's all about being young, you know. It's fantastic. Joy.

Speaker 38:11

My boss is Mr. McKee

Speaker 38:15

He told me several times that it didn't like the kind.

Speaker 38:19

Cause I was a bit too leisurely

Speaker 38:24

Seemed that I was busy doing something crazy

Speaker 38:32

In the summer

Speaker 38:34

I saw she walked in through the outdoor, outdoor, she wore a rest.

Presenter8:41

That was Prince and Raspberry Berry. Steve McCune, it would be I wouldn't be doing my job properly if I didn't ask you to repeat what you just told me during the playing of that record. Tell me what happened after the Academy Awards this year.

Steve McQueen8:46

But

Steve McQueen8:52

Well, um, after the Oscar ceremony, um, um I went to Madonna's after party every year. She has this sort of um Oscar party, which is which is amazing because there's no press, there's no phones or cameras allowed, so everyone's themselves. And Paul McCartney, Bonno, um, you know, think of an artist, Leonardo, I mean, everyone was there. And then I'm there with my mother and my sister, we're having a great time, and you know anyway, and in comes Prince, and Prince is walking in with his cane and his wonderful, perfect round afro.

Steve McQueen9:23

And these bodyguards, but also sort of framing him either side are these two identical, beautiful women. And these black women are amazing, look great. So I print hello, Steve. Oh, congratulations, amazing. He doesn't say too much, but he just says, well done. And we look at each other kind of awkwardly and he goes, introduce yourselves. So he wants me to introduce myself to one of the women. I said, oh, my goodness. Hello. And he goes, hello, Chuck. I thought, oh my God, the Visa just came down.

Steve McQueen9:52

It was these two English girls that was amazing. So, you know.

Steve McQueen9:56

Pass Hollywood, baby.

Presenter9:58

You said on that night in your Oscar acceptance speech for Best Movie Oscar that your life has always been full of strong women. Tell me about your mother.

Steve McQueen10:08

Oh, she's great. I mean, she's

Steve McQueen10:10

She's strong. I mean, she's she's strong and goodness gracious, I mean, without her I wouldn't be sitting and talking to you now, I'll be honest. Um, obviously there's a lot of black women.

Steve McQueen10:21

out there who are similar to my mother and I just sort of uh

Steve McQueen10:25

I'm very lucky. I'm very lucky to have a mother like that. She always told me do what you want to do.

Presenter10:29

You were born in 1969 in Shepherdsbush and then you moved to Ealing with your family. That am I right in thinking that was a house that she had bought without telling your dad?

Steve McQueen10:31

Except

Steve McQueen10:38

Yeah.

Presenter10:39

Yeah, how did that go?

Steve McQueen10:39

Yeah.

Steve McQueen10:40

Not well, but look, you know, the situation is this. My mother wanted to get out of a certain area. And, you know, I mean, basically, when we moved to Ealing, it was sort of middle-class living, baby. So their environment was amazing. The possibilities were huge because you could, you know, you use your imagination because you had this massive, massive park where you could make stuff up. You had the space to make stuff up. When you're living in a situation where you're, you know, it's concrete and you're in an estate. I was living at that time, the White City estate. You know, what is there?

Presenter11:14

And what about in the home environment? I mean, w were your mum and dad interested in art, were there pictures on the wall?

Steve McQueen11:19

No, I think my father was more of a person to, you know, get a trade. Work was about making money, you know, and that was it. You know, I remember taking to the Turner Prize with my friend John and him saying to John, John, John, what's that all about? Do you know what this is all about? And he's sort of high-pitched, sort of, when he gets excited, West Indian voice, say, What's it all about?

Steve McQueen11:39

Even up to then he he wasn't really buying it. And my mother was just very, very proud.

Presenter11:43

And when you were growing up, in those early stages, who were your. Did you have.

Presenter11:48

Probably not role models because we don't think of people like that when we're children, but heroes. Who did you look at and think, well, that's cool, I'd like to do that.

Steve McQueen11:55

No, um no. I could draw, so I got lost in drawing. Heroes.

Steve McQueen12:02

Uh yeah, it's kind of funny. I imagine the first people I really uh looked up to in a way, or was really a a huge fan of was the specials.

Steve McQueen12:13

I remember uh seeing them on top of the pops and the way they looked, you know, Terry Hall being like so this kind of Buster Keaton.

Steve McQueen12:21

And these two black guys, you know, just really jumping around and having fun, and it was just so cool.

Speaker 312:27

Too much too young.

Speaker 312:30

You're done too much, you're much too young, you're married with a kid.

Speaker 312:35

We have a Godwell day today.

Speaker 312:39

No more big thing.

Speaker 312:42

We've done too much, much too young and I am married with a son when I should be having fun with

Speaker 312:55

And take a look, no relief We stop another button on the wild bad

Presenter13:03

In all its glory, that was the specials and too much, too young. I said in the introduction that that you were there was a time at school before

Speaker 313:04

Oh.

Presenter13:13

You know, the drawing was really recognised as being something that you could go on and pursue when you were pretty much written off. You were put in this class where, you know, you can do manual labour. Is that true?

Steve McQueen13:22

Yeah, I mean, you know, in the third year I was I was in 3C two and there was a three C one which was for people who were sort of you know fairly bright and then there was a three X above that these were people going to Oxford and Cambridge. Below all of that there was a three Y which is kind of self explanatory where people dump people who they didn't think are very bright at all. And I was in three C two so it was sort of manual labor kind of situation. And that was it. That was my future tied up when I was uh thirteen years old. End of.

Steve McQueen13:54

Where you are you dyslexic?

Steve McQueen13:56

Yeah.

Steve McQueen13:57

Yeah.

Presenter13:58

You're very dyslexic, Louise.

Steve McQueen13:59

Uh

Presenter13:59

Uh

Steve McQueen13:59

Very dyslexic. I don't know what very dyslexic thing is.

Presenter14:03

Well you can be my

Steve McQueen14:04

Mildly dis

Presenter14:04

I guess I

Steve McQueen14:04

I c I c I could read. Um I'm slower. Um uh I have a hard time spelling sometimes. Right. So I have addictophone. I mean I would say it's it's severe, but it's one of those things where um I'm I'm aware of and I've sort of compensated in the way of how to sort of do things to sort of, you know, deal with it. And sometimes it it's it's a burden and often the oftentimes it's it's it's a real it's a real help.

Presenter14:27

Well what was going through your head? Can you remember when you were in that class and you were pretty much being told, Well, you know, manual labor's the thing, that's a decent way to to live your life and earn a living?

Steve McQueen14:36

I I don't they I don't think they they they didn't actually didn't come out with that. They would never do that, of course. But I just had a belief in in myself and what I wanted to do. It's one of those things where you just have to there's a feeling. And art was one of those things. Art was my salvation. My foundation course in Church School of Art was the first time I I could breathe.

Steve McQueen14:56

Ideas, stupid ideas, daydreaming, falling asleep, not going in sometimes, you know, finding a book, you know, oh, what do you got? What's that? Wow, possibilities, sharing. I had this wonderful friend of mine, he was from Sri Lanka called Indica, who used to go through life drawings class every night. I mean, he was just this robot. And I would just sort of, okay, I'm going with Indica to sort of draw people who influence you, encourage you. And it was just wonderful. It was discovery, freedom.

Presenter15:26

Have you kept any of those pieces from like the life drawing classes and so on? Do you look

Steve McQueen15:30

Somewhere my love my mother's love somewhere, I suppose. Yeah.

Presenter15:33

You want to sign those and frame them, I'm thinking.

Presenter15:37

I do think. And what did your dad say about about you going to Chelsea School of Art and pursuing that?

Steve McQueen15:43

I listen, my dad, I think he would have been happy if I l I was a I was a mechanic or work for London Transport. I think he would have been happier. You know, when you when you

Steve McQueen15:51

Grow up a certain way or are sort of institutionalized a certain way, you obviously don't think certain things are possible.

Steve McQueen15:57

For for your children, possibly.

Presenter15:59

Let's have some more music, Steve McKing. Tell me about your fourth disc of the day.

Steve McQueen16:03

Miles Davis, blue and green. Um wow.

Steve McQueen16:07

I remember being first giving uh a tassette of a kind of blue by a guy called Adam Thorpe and he said, Oh, you don't know jazz? I said, I'm not so I don't really know jazz very well. Oh, well, take this. This is like introduction.

Steve McQueen16:21

I listened to this.

Steve McQueen16:23

album and and it was just

Steve McQueen16:26

I can't tell you, and this has stayed in my heart. I mean, this is, you know.

Steve McQueen16:31

Forgive me for not being morbid. When I die, this is going to be played at my funeral. Absolutely. Um, just beautiful, beautiful.

Presenter17:38

Miles Davis and Blue in Green. I'm wondering, Steve McQueen, what what was the first ever film you made? First piece of film?

Steve McQueen17:45

Yes.

Steve McQueen17:46

Chavinga

Steve McQueen17:48

from Goldsmiths Hot College back home on a SuperA camera.

Presenter17:52

And while you were at Goldsmiths, I mean, I imagine sort of part of the process must be breaking you down in order that you can build yourself back up as an artist. How did you respond to that? That was wonderful.

Steve McQueen18:01

Wonderful. That was wonderful. Because what happens, you know, you're told you're free to do what you want to do, and it's cool. Your your first response, reaction is, Yabi, fantastic. Oh my God, this is amazing. But of course, after a while,

Steve McQueen18:13

You have a bit of a nervous breakdown, you know, because you've never had that freedom before. And then somehow you learn through your own devices to build yourself up, to make in some ways your own language in order to sort of produce, to sort of navigate yourself within, and in what you want to do within art. And it's crazy. It's wonderful. And what? It's scary.

Presenter18:35

And what you believed you wanted to do then at that point with with your discovery and love of film and with all you learned at Goldsmiths was to go to film school and you got yourself to film school in New York. And then it didn't it didn't work. After four months you left.

Steve McQueen18:49

Well it was very difficult in MYU MYU was very competitive film school. And no, it didn't work.

Steve McQueen18:55

You know, I came from a space in the art school after Goldsmiths of experimenting, of finding, of developing, of discovering. And I got to NYU and it was a place which was very um narrow. I mean, of course it was teaching you sort of, you know, how to make film in a way. But it felt like almost like a Chinese sort of circus where you come out and you do the splits and everything. But then again, everyone's the same. I remember lying in bed on on the phone with my mum and the sensation of having tears come out your eyes and roll into your ears.

Steve McQueen19:23

And I said, Look, Mum, I I have to I have to leave, I have to come back.

Presenter19:26

Immediately what I'm thinking when you tell me about that is how somebody like you and now you know you you are the goose that lays the golden egg within the Hollywood structure. You know, if you make a movie that works, what the Hollywood structure wants you to do is make that movie another five times. So how do you think you'll manage to thrive professionally if you want to keep moo making movies that are distributed and that people see?

Steve McQueen19:47

Easy. It's it's e easy. I don't need money.

Steve McQueen19:51

When you don't need money, you're free.

Steve McQueen19:53

You do what you want to do.

Steve McQueen19:55

Tell me to make an offer you.

Steve McQueen19:57

is money. If you don't need it, you don't want it. But

Steve McQueen20:01

There's nothing there. There's there's no there's no enticement.

Presenter20:03

When you sit with those steely-eyed, hungry executives, as I'm sure you must have done, sat in meetings with those Hollywood people.

Presenter20:11

When you look back at them as you're looking back at me now, with that very certain look in your eye, what do you see in their eyes?

Steve McQueen20:17

Yeah.

Presenter20:17

Uh

Steve McQueen20:17

Fear.

Presenter20:18

Oh boy, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Steve McQueen20:19

Yeah.

Presenter20:20

Uh

Steve McQueen20:20

Uh

Presenter20:20

They must be very scared of you.

Steve McQueen20:20

Yeah.

Presenter20:23

Because you can deliver, but you don't want them.

Steve McQueen20:28

I just think that, um

Steve McQueen20:32

You know, it's difficult for them to trust because they want a sure bet.

Steve McQueen20:36

They want a sure bet, and nothing in life is sure.

Presenter20:40

Let's have some more music, Steve McQueen. Um your fifth. Tell me about your fifth choice of this morning.

Steve McQueen20:46

Uh yeah, tricky.

Steve McQueen20:48

I just think when he came out it was just a phenomenon.

Steve McQueen20:52

He again, from all the artists that we've seen until now, was trying things out, was experimenting.

Steve McQueen20:58

And of course they will facilitate it.

Steve McQueen21:02

By the record companies. But you know, we believe in you, let's go for it. It's about belief. Again, that we talk about the movie industry and trust. And I think when you trust people, or you believe in people, or you have faith in people, this is what happens. Genius.

Speaker 221:15

I stand firm for a soil Liquor I confused the legitimate juicy Dress me dress me stitzy Hens round the corner where I shelter Is everything a schism But living out the starter if you believe or deceit Common sense says shit deceives Let me take you down the corridors of my life And when you want to you fall to your frequency

Presenter21:48

That was tricky, and hell is round the corner. Let's talk for a little moment, Steve McQueen, about this phrase that you used, and it keeps coming back into my head, both when I look at your art and when I watch your movies, which is dancing with ghosts.

Presenter22:01

This idea that there's a moment when you touch a bit of history or a bit of reality, and it's where a sort of

Presenter22:09

Visceral magic is spun. Is that a phrase you remember seeing? Because I remember you saying it.

Steve McQueen22:14

I'm saying it.

Steve McQueen22:15

I mean, I think we were definitely doing that in Hunger, we were definitely doing that in a Toy V as a slave, working with the environments of actually what happened at at those particular places at at that time.

Presenter22:25

Hunger told the story of the IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands.

Steve McQueen22:29

Yes, with hunger. Everyone who were involved in making the film had a history involving the Didi protests and and hunger strikes and H blocks. Fathers or uncles were w you know on both sides of the um

Steve McQueen22:45

Of the bars as such. And they were, for them, was amazing because it was cathartic because they could actually do something about it by actually making the movie. You know, again, you are sort of, it's the past and the present in one. And of course, in cinema, what's so beautiful about it is then you get something, you know, you have a situation of the audience looking at the piece which is projected, but you have that thing, that third dimension as such.

Presenter23:09

Quite often communities that are tied to these places where traumatic and terrible things have happened I'm thinking of Belfast, I'm thinking of America's Deep South for very understandable reasons want to move on from their history, want the world to see them differently. Have you ever, when you've been in Belfast or the Southern States of America making your movies, had

Steve McQueen23:16

I'm thinking

Steve McQueen23:18

Mm-hmm.

Presenter23:28

I had an antagonistic reception from the locals, from people around who said, you know, this is not who we are now, this is not where we are. Why are you coming back to do this?

Steve McQueen23:37

Well, it's not about this, it's not who we are now, it's about where we are now. And

Steve McQueen23:43

For me, slavery was something that no one wanted to talk about. And I remember our first Q and A we were promoting this film in Florida, half an hour from where Trayvon Martin was killed.

Presenter23:56

This is the young boy who was shot.

Steve McQueen23:58

Sure, yeah. And this woman stand up, she stood up and said, I thank you for making this movie. Um, I just want to share this with everyone here. You know, my father I I've discovered this ten years ago, but I never actually s spoke about it, really. My my father in in in in the fifties was poisoned for teaching kids how to read.

Steve McQueen24:17

And the movie was a platform to allow people to have those conversations which have been buried very deep inside. And in order to go forward, one has one has to sort of go back in order to sort of make that foundation and move on and be stronger and and stand taller.

Presenter24:36

Let's have some more music, Steve McQueen. Tell me about this, your sixth choice of the morning.

Steve McQueen24:40

Oh my goodness. Yeah, um this is beautiful again. This is Glen Gaul.

Steve McQueen24:45

Uh Goldman variations Bach um just

Steve McQueen24:49

What can I say, what can I say about this piece of music?

Steve McQueen24:53

Is it there's a truth?

Steve McQueen24:55

It's like a scent, a smell.

Steve McQueen24:57

I don't know. It it I know it.

Steve McQueen25:00

It's so kind of personal, but then again, so sort of foreign. I'm going on, but play.

Presenter26:19

That was Glenn Gould playing part of Bach's Goldberg Variations. You've said you've said that you one of the things that propels you is that you can't stand injustice. Many of us as adults going about our business feel that way too. Most of us are not moved to do something about it or don't put ourselves in a position where we can.

Presenter26:39

Is it very exhausting? Is it a great drain on you?

Presenter26:43

To follow through on that sensation of not being able to stand in justice.

Presenter26:48

Because it's not an easy path you've chosen artistically.

Steve McQueen26:53

It's a pleasure.

Steve McQueen26:55

It's an honour. It's a privilege.

Steve McQueen26:59

I can do it.

Steve McQueen27:01

Wow.

Steve McQueen27:04

I'm an artist. I try tracing through art. That's about it.

Presenter27:09

In two thousand three then, uh you spent some time as an officially appointed war artist, uh the war being the war in Iraq. Um was that productive for you? Did di was that engaging? Did you feel satisfied?

Steve McQueen27:15

Yeah.

Steve McQueen27:23

At at the time, no. When I went to Iraq and and Baja, it was very frustrating because I was embedded in with the British Army there. And it was very frustrating because I wasn't allowed to do certain things.

Steve McQueen27:34

But what I did discover when I was out there was a camaraderie of the troops. And that was amazing from all over, you know, UK. And I failed at the time because I I was thinking of filming something out there uh as an artwork, but I failed. It wasn't it di you know, it didn't add up at all. I remember sort of sitting on the edge of my bed feeling very.

Steve McQueen27:57

Frustrated. And then I had the situation of having an idea of an whole idea of making stamps with dead servicemen on it. We were very fortunate to be able to sort of reach out to the families of the dead servicemen and women to ask for permission to use the images and them to give us images of their loved ones who had died. And slowly but surely they did. We got about 93% of the people who had died at that time to give us images. And they went to the raw mail. And yeah, that's when things went.

Steve McQueen28:33

didn't progress.

Presenter28:35

The artwork itself, in 2006, I think it was produced. It was called Queen'am Country. You wanted them to be.

Steve McQueen28:37

I think it was

Steve McQueen28:39

Yeah.

Presenter28:41

properly used as stamps for them to be in circulation.

Steve McQueen28:44

Yes, I wanted them to be, you know, you know, passed through the bloodstream of of the country, absolutely. Not through the media, not through radio, not through television, not through the internet, but through the everyday of picking up a letter. And I love that idea of it going underneath the radar of media and recognizing this person who had died for this country. That was it.

Presenter29:03

And why do you think in the end it did not happen?

Steve McQueen29:06

Bro

Presenter29:06

Yeah.

Steve McQueen29:06

Uh

Presenter29:07

Yeah.

Steve McQueen29:07

What did the Romille tell you? I dunno. No. No, it was and no, and I don't know why. I'm I'm still waiting for an answer sort of uh, you know, seven years later.

Presenter29:15

Let's have some music, Steve McQueen. It's your seventh. Tell me about this.

Steve McQueen29:20

Kate Bush, this woman's work. Um, wow.

Steve McQueen29:26

I I rang her one time, okay, but I was lucky enough just to to to to to speak to her, actually a couple of times. Um it's just just she um

Steve McQueen29:37

Looking for things, searching, experimenting, you know, having the power to do that.

Steve McQueen29:42

And I imagine that, you know, especially as a woman in particular, to have that kind of authority over your work.

Steve McQueen29:49

It's pretty amazing.

Steve McQueen29:52

This is the result of it. Again, genius. Again, I always think of.

Steve McQueen29:57

Yeah, my mother and my sister and the aunts and these people who are just so so so so very strong, particularly again in in in in the in the West Indian the black community, you know, you know, they are the the the backbone.

Speaker 330:10

We got you can call

Speaker 330:14

I stand outside this woman's world.

Speaker 330:20

This one is wrong.

Speaker 330:23

Ooh, it's hard on the map.

Speaker 330:27

Now his part is over.

Speaker 330:31

No skies

Speaker 330:35

Of the farm

Speaker 330:40

And do you have a little life in you yet?

Speaker 330:44

I know you have a lot of strength left.

Presenter30:49

That was Kate Bush in this woman's work. Did that feel good listening to that? You looked like you were in the moment of that there, Stephen Queen.

Steve McQueen30:56

Too much, too much, too much, too much. Yeah, mm sort of um brings up evoke so much, huh? That's all

Presenter31:05

I have to say I have found you today to be entirely affable and giving and smiling a lot and great company. But a lot of people when I said I was coming to talk to you today and and record a Desert Island Discs with you said

Presenter31:19

Oh, I wonder what you'll be like.

Steve McQueen31:21

I'm a black man. I'm used to that.

Presenter31:23

Is that what it is?

Steve McQueen31:25

Shall I say anything more?

Steve McQueen31:27

Honestly?

Steve McQueen31:29

I'm a black man. What do you think?

Steve McQueen31:32

Before I walk in the room people make a judgment.

Steve McQueen31:34

You know, I don't care.

Steve McQueen31:39

Did that?

Presenter31:40

When you hear that, does it does it make you annoyed?

Steve McQueen31:42

Totally not.

Steve McQueen31:44

You know, I wouldn't be talking to sh if it did, I'd be in jail locked up somewhere, where a lot of people are, to be quite frank.

Presenter31:53

I'm going to cast you away to a desert island, as you know. That's why you're here. Will you survive?

Steve McQueen31:55

As you know that

Presenter31:59

How will you survive?

Presenter32:01

Stricken is how you look right now, I should tell people.

Steve McQueen32:01

Strict

Steve McQueen32:03

How will I survive? Th thank God I got the music, that's for sure.

Steve McQueen32:11

I will survive through memories. I mean, that's the wonderful thing about life, huh? The wonderful thing about being with a partner or sharing your life with someone is that you could lie in bed when you're older and just talk about the past. You know, the best thing about life is sharing it, otherwise, it's it's it's it's of no importance. And I think that's that's what I would do. I pretend my wife is next to me and I would be laughing and crying and remembering people of past and remembering the good times and the journey, you know? It's cool, it's all good.

Presenter32:40

Tell me about your final choice, Steve McQueen. What are we going to hear now, or we're going to hear part of now, I have to say.

Steve McQueen32:44

See?

Steve McQueen32:46

We're gonna hear Power by Kenya West.

Steve McQueen32:51

He went to a show of mine at the Schulager in Basel. I had a very big retrospective there. And Kenny saw the show and he called me. And we just got on very, very, very well. You know, he's someone who's very, you know, I would say misunderstood. And I think he's, you know, he's quite fearless. And, you know, he's experimenting, he's finding things out. He's an artist who.

Steve McQueen33:14

is pushing the medium. And I think he's he's he's he's exceptional. And this this this song is it n it's not just about the the muscularity of it, but it's about the beauty of it and it's about the I mean, if you hear the whole song, people hopefully you hear the whole song. It's about the vulnerability as well, you know. He's very feminine. He's very feminine.

Presenter33:33

Because of some of the lyrical content, people are not going to hear the whole song, they're going to hear a very small part of it this morning.

Speaker 333:40

Oh

Speaker 333:45

I'm living in that 21st century, doing something mean to it. Do it better than anybody you ever seen do it. Screams from the 80s, got a nice ring to it. I guess every superhero need his theme music. No one man should have all that power. The clock's ticking, I just count the hours. Stop tripping, I'm tripping on.

Speaker 334:07

Uh

Presenter34:12

That was Part of Power by Kanye West. So, Steve McQueen, I'm going to give you some books. We always give our guests a copy of the Bible and a copy of the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take another book along with you to this island far away. What will your book be?

Steve McQueen34:27

Um my book will be Fire Next Time by James Borwin.

Steve McQueen34:31

You know, again, it's similar to a lot of the artists here, but we records I've played, there's a certain kind of.

Steve McQueen34:37

Or all or nothing.

Steve McQueen34:39

situation and I love that.

Presenter34:42

You're allowed to take a luxury too, and that's something that's going to make your life alone on the island a little more palatable. What will your luxury be?

Steve McQueen34:50

Compass. Give me some idea of the location of where the bloody hell I am, please. At least I can sort of know north, you know.

Presenter34:58

Okay. The compass is yours then, Steve. And if you had to pick just one of these eight tracks to save from the waves, if they were going to be washed away, which would be your one single track to save?

Steve McQueen35:08

It will be miles, it will be blue and green.

Presenter35:11

It's yours, Steve McQueen. Thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island disc.

Steve McQueen35:15

Thank you.

Presenter35:56

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.