Judy Murray

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is Judy Murray. A tennis coach since she was seventeen. She's the current British captain of the Fed Cup, the premier team competition in women's tennis. She was herself at one time ranked eighth in Britain.

Presenter0:47

Achievements worth celebrating. But of course what she's best known for is being the ultimate tennis mum. Both her sons have reached the top flight of the game, one as Wimbledon Mix Doubles champ, the other becoming the first Brit to win the men's singles in seventy seven years.

Presenter1:03

In the moments after Andy Murray's heroic win on Centre Court last year, it was to her he turned, pumping his fists and roaring, as if to say, We have done it.

Presenter1:14

If you're one of her many followers on social media, you'll know how she spends her time, countless hours trawling up and down the country, coaching and working to inspire children to take up the game.

Presenter1:25

She says, I've always been competitive. I'm like Andy, or maybe he's like me. I wear my heart on my sleeve, and when something is great, then, yep, I am right into it. And so, Judy Murray, we have watched you countless times on the television, being right into it. You know, like there you are, you know, the the the fists are clenched, and you look like you are just.

Presenter1:46

Sweating every moment of it. How does it actually feel to be in the moments watching one of your sons play?

Judy Murray1:51

Yeah, it hasn't got any easier. In fact, it's probably got worse as the level of expectation ha has increased. But the best I could describe it.

Presenter1:52

Yeah.

Judy Murray1:59

is a kind of a mixture of a heart attack and severe nausea all going on at the same time. But I do try not to show it because your kids pick up on everything f from you. So you will never see me be anything other than positive. I might look like I'm terrified and I'm really serious and I probably am, but that's just how I am and I don't think that will ever change now.

Presenter2:20

Let's just for a moment then luxuriate in those moments when it was a straight sets win against Novak Djokovich. Andy first of all looked as though he couldn't believe what had happened to him, and then the cameras were on him, and he crouched down on the ground. What were you doing at that point?

Judy Murray2:33

Oh crying.

Judy Murray2:34

Yeah, I was sitting next to Leon Smith, he's the the British Davis Cup coach, and uh we've worked together for years, so he kind of gets me and when I watch the boys playing, I don't want anybody to talk to me. I'm just totally focussed on on what they do, and uh I really just turned to him and put my head on his shoulder and I couldn't look. And he was saying, You gotta look, your son's just won Wimbledon, you've gotta look and then uh, you know, I did manage to look, but you know, by that time he was starting to come up towards the the player box, which was lovely.

Presenter3:05

And he was just leaving when it suddenly occurred to him. I haven't seen my mum.

Judy Murray3:09

I don't think it occurred to him at all, Chris. Well, he turned shouting at him saying, What about you?

Presenter3:10

Well he turned round.

Presenter3:15

You were very restrained. You gave him just one embrace and you encouraged him to head back down onto the court.

Judy Murray3:17

You gave f

Judy Murray3:20

At all of the other slams you're usually at opposite ends of the court, w one s one set of supporters to the other. And at Wimbledon you're mixed in together and there is nothing worse than sitting there with the opposition's supporters breathing down your neck and shouting against your child.

Judy Murray3:38

So I can't stand it. So I moved myself out of that area. So when Andy came clambering up on the kind of flimsy canvas roof, I was too far away from him, I think, to for him to see where I was, but yeah, he got called back down by the crowd.

Presenter3:50

Let's have your first choice this morning, then, Judy. What are we going to hear, your first disc?

Judy Murray3:53

We're going to hear The Killers singing Human and it's one of those songs, I just love the tune of it, and I'll play it over and over and over again in the car, just press the repeat button.

Speaker 44:04

You gotta let me go. Are we human?

Speaker 44:09

Oh roll with dancer

Speaker 44:13

My sign is vital

Speaker 44:16

My hands are cold.

Speaker 44:19

And I'm all in love.

Presenter4:31

That was the killers in human. And here's the interesting thing about your family. Not just have you grown these great champion tennis players, but I understand that your mother, who's now in her eighties, runs the tuck shop at Dumblaine Tennis Club every weekend.

Presenter4:45

The charm in what you seem to have pulled off as a family is that you are very much the family who does what they always did in spite of the fact that you've got these two top flight players. How do you manage that?

Judy Murray4:58

Yeah, I mean when I was small my mum was the the the person who did the Saturday morning coaching at our tennis club. She did it with her best friend and we were always brought up as part of the community. So whether that was the golf club or the Babington Club or the tennis club, my mum and dad were always very involved and very community focussed people and I think that's kind of probably made me how I am.

Presenter5:18

And what about your dad? He seems too to be somebody with his feet very firmly planted on the ground. What sort of character is he?

Judy Murray5:24

Yeah, very much so. I mean he was a former footballer, turned optician. He opened his first shop in Dumblane fifty years ago and now my brother runs it. So we we're very into the whole fabric of the town. My dad's been retired for about twenty two years. He still works as a volunteer in Dumblane Museum. He still fundraises for the local hospice by running uh golf events.

Judy Murray5:46

And he's a very dry sense of humour, but he's a very fair man, never gets up nor down about anything. He's he's great. My mum's just like a human dynamo.

Presenter5:55

You were the big sister to two little brothers were you a bossy big sister?

Judy Murray6:00

I kinda tended to side with my youngest brother against the middle one because the the two of them were always fighting. The the middle one uh

Presenter6:03

Because

Judy Murray6:07

He was living in uh in the States for about thirteen years. He's just come back. He's a he's a golf pro. So we're we're we're just a very sporty family, but I think that sport playing together as a family can bring you can bring you very close.

Presenter6:18

You travel Britain, indeed. You travel the world evangelising about tennis. Do do you have much time?

Presenter6:23

To play yourself. And if if you do, are you ever able to play these days for pleasure, or have you always got to play to win?

Judy Murray6:29

I haven't played competitively, I think, for about eight years now, but I'm very competitive. I'm a very, very bad loser. And my sons will both tell you stories about me playing mixed doubles with them when they were very young in kind of fun family tournaments and how I used to swear under my breath and at the back of the court. They they tell everybody that with great pleasure. But, you know, they are also competitive. I say I got it from my dad, they say they got it from me.

Presenter6:53

I think they're right. Let's have some more music, Judy Murray. Your second disc. Tell me about this.

Judy Murray6:58

Well, this is Bay City Rulers singing Shang Alang, and this reminds me of my school days.

Presenter7:03

How would you have looked when you were singing Shangalang?

Judy Murray7:05

Oh, I would have the dreadful wide tartan trousers that were above the ankle, the bobber boots, maybe a Harrington, and a dreadful mullet. I mean, I looked like a boy when I was young, and I had to beg my mother to let me get my ears pierced when I was fifteen because the bus

Presenter7:09

Yeah.

Judy Murray7:21

Driver on the school bus used to call me son all the time.

Speaker 47:33

Shake

Speaker 47:35

We were breaking up

Speaker 47:37

Rock into the shaggy sound of the music

Speaker 47:42

Hey, welcome to the music

Speaker 47:47

Music

Speaker 47:58

Do what we do with the way

Presenter8:01

You can sit down there, Judy. That was the Bay City Rollers and Shang-Alang. Let's talk a little bit more, Judy Murray, about your tennis career. 64 titles in all. You were ranked first in Scotland, eighth in Britain.

Presenter8:12

Tell me something more about what being on that circuit was like as a teenager.

Judy Murray8:17

Well I think the first thing to say is that tennis was and probably still is a very small sport in Scotland. About one percent of the population played tennis and it wasn't really so difficult to be the best in Scotland at tennis because actually the pool of players was very, very small. But you didn't have coaching in those days. I learned a lot from just from playing the game in tournaments and in club and county competitions and from playing with my dad.

Judy Murray8:41

But when I finished school I wanted to have a go at playing tennis. I was one of the best juniors in Britain and I was ranked I think eight and uh the top six girls were selected to be part of a squad that was based at Queen's Club and got all the opportunities. So I kind of just missed out on that. So anything that I wanted to do I had to do on my own. But I wanted to try and I think you know looking back because I didn't last very long at it.

Judy Murray9:06

when I did get the chance to become the Scottish national coach.

Judy Murray9:10

I was really driven to create opportunities for the Scottish kids.

Presenter9:14

For tennis young tennis professionals these days there are a lot of well, they seem like almost non stop obstacles to overcome. You know, things like could be injury, could be lack of sponsorship, it could be the relentless tour diary. For you at that time it was something very different that it that ended up scuppering you.

Judy Murray9:31

Yeah, I was in Barcelona and I was on my own and in those days you didn't have mobile phones or credit cards or things and I went to pick some money up at the post restaurant.

Judy Murray9:41

And I'd been going back up to the hotel and the bus was crowded. And when I got off the bus, my bag, which had been over my shoulder,

Judy Murray9:49

was open.

Judy Murray9:50

and when I looked inside my purse had gone. And it was one of those moments where

Judy Murray9:55

I remember putting my bag down on the pavement and closing it and opening it up again and thinking.

Presenter9:59

Maybe it'll be the

Judy Murray10:00

It'll be there. And of course, it wasn't. And it had my passport in it, it had all my money, it had my ticket home. Anyway, it was a real challenge, but I've always been one of those people that when there's a problem or an obstacle, I like it. So I had this challenge of finding a policeman who could speak a bit of English. They got me to the embassy, explained what had happened, all this. And when I eventually got home, my dad made the decision for me and he said, Look, it's impossible. You know, he was running his own business. My mum was at home with my two brothers. There was nobody to go with me. And you can't really do that on your own at that age. It was very, very tough. Has that stayed with you? You're very sort of self-reliant. I don't think you never forget what it was like, you know, what a struggle it was, trying to make ends meet and trying to make things happen. And, you know, for me now, I will still travel economy in a plane and I'll always take the tube rather than a taxi if I have time, even if I'm carrying a bag. And I never let anybody carry my bag. You know, you'd be pulling your pull a long suitcase, you know, one of those things like you've been fired from the apprentice. And people will say, Can I help you with that? And I always say no, because it's like I do things myself. But yeah, we stay try and stay as grounded as possible.

Presenter11:12

Time for your third, Judy Murray. Tell me about this. Why have you chosen this one?

Judy Murray11:15

Okay, this is Bruce Springsteen Born to Run and this reminds me of when I was at Edinburgh University. I studied French and business studies and in my first year there I would go over to the Union at T V at Row and I would have the same thing to eat every night which is quite sad and it was chicken chasseur and chips which the lady behind the thing always called chicken chasseur and chips and I would put Bruce Springsteen Born to Run on the duke box.

Speaker 411:41

Wedded out on the streets of a runaway American drink

Speaker 411:47

That night we ride to Mansions of Glory and Suicide Machines.

Speaker 411:53

Sprung from cages on highway nine, throne wheel human checking, and stepping out over the line.

Speaker 412:02

Oh baby, this sound rips the bones from your back. It's a death trap, it's a suicide rap. We gotta get up while we're up.

Speaker 412:13

Cause trans like us, they know we were forced

Presenter12:19

That was Bruce Bringstein and Born to Run. As you were telling us just before that, Judy Murray, then, that would be part of your evening ritual before or after. I think you went to your business studies lectures. It was part of your course at Edinburgh University. You read French and Business Studies, and you were training at the same time to become a coach. As you left university, did you have an idea of how you wanted to make a living, what you wanted to do?

Judy Murray12:39

When I left university I wanted bizarrely to go into fashion and I started to work for Miss Selfridge and I worked as a trainee manager for them for a while but I got bored of that quite quickly and then I became a sales rep with a confectionery company and became a national account manager with them right up until I had Andy so I never thought I was going to be a tennis coach.

Presenter13:02

You said a really interesting thing once about that period in your life. You said, I've been on the women's professional tennis tour, I've been through a divorce, I've watched both my sons win and lose major tennis matches, and still I would say that Andy's first eighteen months this is as a baby were the toughest I've ever known. Y your your kids were only fifteen months apart. By then you were married to Willie Murray. What was it about being the mother of two toddlers that drove you round the twist?

Judy Murray13:29

Well, we'd moved back from Glasgow to Dunblane, so I'd left all my friends behind and and the tennis club that I played at, which was part of my social life. I had no car, and uh I was like, I'm stuck here with these two little kids and it was, oh we had no money in those days, so you know, you know how expensive it is taking your kids out for a day out, and especially if you've got no car, you're limited in what you can do with them. So I became quite an expert in making up games that we could play in the house. And I think because I played with them so much, and so did their dad and so did their grandparents, they became very well coordinated at a young age.

Presenter14:05

Was it true that you turned the sitting-room into a tennis court?

Judy Murray14:08

Oh, the kitchen as well and the and the hall. The living room, they would hit sponge balls over the sofa, so we had sponge ball marks all over the the windows and all over the walls. And the kitchen would be the kitchen table or the lino, a row of cereal boxes, a couple of biscuit tin lids, and a ping pong ball.

Presenter14:25

How early did you think I'm onto something here?'Cause they're gifted us.

Judy Murray14:28

No, it was it was never like that for me. I just I just loved playing with my kids. But I I I enjoyed sport growing up. I loved playing with my family at home. Um and so when I had my kids, it's just like second nature to to do it.

Presenter14:43

Let's have some more music, Judy Murray. Tell me about the well, perfect. Tell me about this.

Judy Murray14:47

Uh

Judy Murray14:48

I bet you've never had this on Desert Island. Well, you're gonna get a bit of the Singing Kettle. And the Singing Kettle is a collection of great fun

Presenter14:50

Never. I can honestly tell you.

Judy Murray14:59

Very Scottish songs for kids. And uh I had a tape that we took in the car, so whether it was football training, rugby training or their tennis tournaments ultimately, this would be the tape that we would put on. But it kept them entertained for hours, and this was probably the favourite, the the Geely Peace song.

Speaker 315:16

I'm a skyscraper win, I live on the nineteenth flare But I'm no gone, who to fly on a mayor Cause since I moved to Castle Milk, I'm wasting away Cause I'm getting one less meal every day Or you cannot fling pieces to twenty-storey flat

Speaker 315:39

700 Hungry Wings will testify to that If it's butter, cheese or jelly, if the breed be play or pun, The odds against it reaching Earth in 99 to 1.

Presenter15:48

Yeah.

Judy Murray15:49

Yeah.

Presenter15:53

That was the singing kettle and the Jealy Peace song. So, Judy Murray, in 1996, the place that you yourself had been brought up and that you've chosen to go back to to bring up your young sons faced a shattering event. As everybody will remember, a gunman went into Andy and Jamie's primary school in Dunblane, and Thomas Hamilton shot dead sixteen children and also a teacher there. And you have said that one of you feel that one of the most significant things about Andy's career and his fame is that now when people think of Dumblane, they think of Dunblane as the place that Andy Murray comes from.

Judy Murray16:27

Yeah, I uh yeah, I d I do. And I think that what's happened both with Andy and Jamie in the tennis world has brought so much excitement into the town that it's really helped, I think.

Presenter16:40

As I understand it, Andy's class was due to be the next one in the gym. The gym was where the shootings took place.

Judy Murray16:48

Yeah, it's um well, I think that, you know, the the the day that it happened, um, I ran a toy shop in the town with with my mum.

Judy Murray16:58

And my mum came running through the door and said that there's been a shooting at the primary school and

Judy Murray17:06

I just she said, You need to go and I picked up my car keys and just ran out the shop. And um, like many other parents who were trying to get to the school, eventually you come across a jam and uh I I remember swearing.

Judy Murray17:22

absolutely swearing at the top of my voice and get out of my way and eventually I abandoned my car and ran to the school. And uh obviously you could see

Judy Murray17:32

that something had been going on because of the police presence and the ambulances and so forth. But we were many, many hours later this was around half nine, quarter to ten in the morning before we discovered what had actually happened and which class had been affected. So, you know, those four or five hours

Judy Murray17:49

Waiting to find out were terrifying because you didn't know if you were ever going to see your children again.

Judy Murray17:56

So um

Judy Murray17:58

The other thing that I remember so clearly about that day was that.

Judy Murray18:03

When it was my turn to go and get Jamie and Andy out, all that they knew uh was that um

Judy Murray18:11

There had been a man in the school who had a gun.

Judy Murray18:14

and they didn't know anything else. They'd been in the classrooms, they had been fed in the classrooms, and I had to stop the car and explain to them what had happened. And when when I when I told Jamie and Andy what had happened,

Judy Murray18:29

Bec they were very, very quiet.

Judy Murray18:32

Andy asked some questions. Jamie to this day never speaks about him. But they knew Thomas Hamilton because they used to go to his boys' clubs and he lived in Stirling, he didn't have his own car, and occasionally I would run him back down to the train station, and he was definitely was odd, but you wouldn't have thought that he was dangerous. But because the boys knew him in that context made it

Judy Murray18:58

very tough for them to understand, but I really am very grateful that they were young enough to not really appreciate the enormity of what had happened.

Presenter19:09

And what about you? Because at the time you did understand what a huge thing it was.

Judy Murray19:12

Yeah, it was um.

Judy Murray19:14

It was impossible to accept I remember going down to to get some milk, I think, from the high street, and there were just journalists all over the place and everybody was just looking for somebody to ask for a comment or whatever. So w we we left town after that because I thought just don't want to be anywhere near that. I still find it hard to believe that it did happen, but very, very grateful that the town has recovered.

Judy Murray19:40

So well from it.

Presenter19:42

So last year when the

Presenter19:44

when the post boxes were painted gold, the colour of the Wimbledon Trophy, and when Andy came back into the streets, and when those streets were filled with cheering people, it must have been quite a moment.

Judy Murray19:52

With J

Judy Murray19:54

Yeah, that was an amazing day. It wasn't a very nice day. It was it was a wee bit wet. The turnout was incredible and I was doing okay until we got to the tennis club.

Judy Murray20:04

And then, like, for me, that was like you know, we had about two hundred children on the tennis course. They'd been waiting for ages. And I was thinking, wow, you know, this is where it all started. And we were just an or a normal

Presenter20:13

It's

Judy Murray20:16

Absolutely average family from Dumbling, and this is where we started, you know, this tiny little tennis club, and uh it's still the same, you know, the four artificial grass cores.

Judy Murray20:26

And it and the rain. So it was.

Judy Murray20:29

And and that was when it really got to me.

Judy Murray20:31

Because you're kind of back to your roots and back to where it all started.

Presenter20:35

Well, let's take a break and have some more music then. Tell me about this next disc, your Fifth of the Morning.

Judy Murray20:40

Okay, this is uh one of my favourite songs, and it is sung by Amy MacDonald, who is a fabulously talented young Scottish singer.

Judy Murray20:49

It's just everything that I feel about Scotland.

Speaker 420:52

So I've been telling old stories and

Speaker 420:55

Singing songs that made me think about where I came from and.

Speaker 421:03

That's a reason.

Speaker 421:05

Why I feel so far away

Speaker 421:09

Today

Speaker 421:11

And let me tell you that I love you.

Speaker 421:16

That I think about you all the time

Speaker 421:21

Caledonia's been called.

Speaker 421:25

Now I'm going to go Ho and no.

Presenter21:28

That was Amy MacDonald singing Caledonia. So, Judy Murray, being a young mum was in many ways, I'm sure, very rewarding, but you needed more in your life and as a result, you got your qualifications, your qualifications to coach. Around about 1994, you reached the point where you were doing well enough there to be appointed the Scottish Lawn Tennis Association's national coach. At that point, in your little stable of people that you were coaching were your sons, of course, Jamie and Andy, Elena Beltacher, and also Colin Fleming. People remember that he won a gold, went on to win a gold at the Commonwealth Games.

Presenter22:05

You didn't have any money. You didn't have many facilities. How on earth did you manage that?

Judy Murray22:09

I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Presenter22:10

Through sheer force of will, I'm wondering.

Judy Murray22:12

Yeah, I think um for me it was a big thing to take on because obviously my children were quite small.

Judy Murray22:17

And I didn't really have any experience to do it. I didn't really have any right to be a national coach. But we used to pack all the kids in the mini bus and we'd stick the Scottish flag in the back and say we're off to conquer England. So it was a lot of fun and we didn't get really caught up into that who's better than who, and we were all just in it together.

Presenter22:34

There came a point then when it was clear that you were two uh sons, that Jamie and Andy had great skills, and Andy ended up going to Spain and uh Jamie went to France.

Judy Murray22:44

Mm-hmm.

Presenter22:45

Was that difficult or was that just sort of part of the plan?

Judy Murray22:48

It was just kind of what what what had to be done. Um

Judy Murray22:52

You know, Andy, when he was 14, he had to make a decision between whether he was going to do football or tennis. And him going to Spain was as a result of him playing a game of racquetball against Rafa at a junior tournament. And Rafa was telling him about how he trained outdoors on clay. He didn't go to school. He hit with Carlos Moya, who was the world number one at the time, who was also based in Majorca. And Andy came on the phone, which was very unusual for him to phone when he was away. We were always sort of one of those no-news is good news things. So he comes on the phone. I went, What's the matter? And he said, Oh, this is what Rafa does. And he was shouting down the phone. He's going, All I've got is you and my brother at the university. And part of me was secretly delighted because I knew that if he was going to have any chance to kind of maximise his potential or see how good he could be, he was going to have to leave the country. How did you afford it?

Judy Murray23:40

That was a tough one. We got some help from the Lawn Tennis Association, some help from Sports Scotland, some help from Tennis Scotland, some help from the family, a little bit of private sponsorship, and at one point had to borrow some money. So that was my stressful period because actually what it cost for Andy to train in Spain was more than my salary.

Judy Murray24:01

And then a couple of years later, Jamie finished his hires and he wanted to go and train somewhere because he wanted to be a tennis player as well. And his game is completely different from Andy. You know, I have a left-hander and a right-hander. I have one who plays doubles, whose skills are all around the serve and the net, and one who's a right-hander who's a baseline scrapper. So they're never going to train at the same place or on the same surface. So I had to find somewhere different for Jamie. And that brought its own challenges financially and logistically because you've got.

Presenter24:26

Yeah.

Judy Murray24:26

Two of them in Different places.

Presenter24:27

Yes, and two of them, as you say, very different players. When it became clear to both you and the coaches that Andy's game, his type of game, was much more suited then to him being a singles player and maybe one day a singles champion

Presenter24:41

How difficult was that to deal with? You know, you're the mother of the two boys, you love them both equally, but you know probably that the prospects for one of them in the singles game and the prizes and the glory is going to be greater than for the other.

Judy Murray24:54

Yeah, I think I mean, the way that I always saw it was that you create the opportunities for them. It's up to them to take the opportunities. At the time, I wished that the LTA had

Judy Murray25:06

Been able to help us more, but looking back, I'm glad they didn't. I'm glad it was a struggle because.

Judy Murray25:12

you know, if if it's a struggle, you work hard. I and also there's part of me that wants to prove people wrong. I I mean every time somebody told me that I was crazy or you'll never do that or you shouldn't do that or this is the wrong way or whatever, I just wanted to prove them wrong.

Presenter25:24

Let's have some more music, Judy. It's your sixth.

Judy Murray25:27

Tell me about this. Oh my. This is Michael Bobley singing Beautiful Day, and this reminds me of Andy's Wimbledon win, because a couple of days after Wimbledon I went to watch Michael Bobley in concert at The O Two, and when he opened the show, he said

Judy Murray25:45

Two nights ago I stood up here and I told you you've been waiting seventy seven years for

Judy Murray25:51

Wimbledon champion, I know you have one, and he said

Judy Murray25:54

Sadly, Andy can't be with us tonight, but behind every good man is a good woman, and I've got his mother, and my picture was up on all the screens at the side of the stage, and I was in an absolute dream thinking, I do not believe this is happening There was twenty thousand people in the O two and I felt like a complete

Judy Murray26:12

But it was just one of those moments where you never ever would have dreamed that something like that would happen to you. Michael Bibley bowing to you. I mean, my word doesn't get much better than that.

Presenter26:20

It does.

Speaker 426:20

Doesn't get much.

Presenter26:20

Uh

Speaker 426:23

It's a beautiful day and I can't stop myself from smiling If I drink in there I'm buying

Speaker 426:32

I know there's no denying

Speaker 426:36

It's a beautiful day to send this up music's play

Speaker 426:42

Anybody can start a ring

Speaker 426:45

You won't hear this boy complaining Cause I'm glad that you're the one who got away

Presenter26:55

It's beautiful. That was your good friend Michael Buplet, there Judy Murray singing Beautiful Day. Inevitably, when you reach the top flight of sport, and especially tennis, it attracts a lot of attention. I'm wondering what you made of the attention that

Presenter27:08

Alex Salmond paid your son's win. Um the three set win at Wimbledon. He becomes Wimbledon champion. The cameras go to the Prime Minister, and behind him Alex Salmond, Scotland's First Minister, unfurls a saltire flag.

Presenter27:21

What did you make of that? How did you feel about that?

Judy Murray27:24

Well I I I saw him doing that and like most politicians, they they sense an opportunity and they go for it. But what I was wondering about was how he managed to get the flag in there because you're not really allowed to show sort of support for one over the other and you're not supposed to take flags or anything like that in there. So that was my kind of questioning of how did he manage that?

Presenter27:37

So you know how to do classes and you know

Presenter27:45

It's an interesting time and potentially a tumultuous time in British politics. Have either the Yes or No campaign tried to recruit you to their cause?

Judy Murray27:53

No, I can't say they have. Thankfully, no, I'm going to absolutely sit on the fence on.

Presenter27:55

They're not.

Presenter27:58

That one? A very wise thing to do, I'm sure. The public position that you find yourself in then.

Judy Murray27:58

Uh

Presenter28:04

Partly, I suppose, you have to enter into it, you have to choose to be in the spotlight, but it is your, you know, it's your sons that have been there, and it's because you're engaged with what they're doing that you've ended up in the spotlight.

Judy Murray28:11

And it's because

Presenter28:14

Are you getting more used to it?

Judy Murray28:16

Yeah, um I think uh our lives have had to adapt to everything that that's happened and it isn't something that I ever imagined you know would happen to me but you know you have to learn how to deal with the media. I went and did a PR course some years ago when Andy was getting a you know a lot of pelters in the media and I wanted to be able to understand it better but I think uh now you know I I think it's good for the boys to see that I still work hard, I still go out there, I'm trying to take tennis into areas where it currently doesn't exist and give more kids the opportunity to try it. I'm always campaigning for more courts, particularly public courts, but what what I say to them is you provide the inspiration and the role models and I can go out and handle the the grassroots side of it and hopefully build on their success.

Presenter29:04

Um, culturally these days it it's fashionable really to sort of to knock parents who want their kids to win. Um there was a time when, you know, fairly regularly people would have a pop at you, certainly in the printed media, saying, you know, this pushy mum, and there she is again and printing she didn't you know.

Presenter29:21

People got quite critical of you. Did it did it bother you?

Judy Murray29:22

Okay.

Judy Murray29:23

Yeah, it did. Um it did. I mean the whole pushy mum thing.

Judy Murray29:29

I have never been a pushy mum. You know, I've encouraged my kids and I've supported my kids, but I've never pushed them to do anything. And if you asked either of them that, they would tell you exactly the same. But yeah, there w there there were times and and I really do believe that

Judy Murray29:45

Um, as a mother of sons I came in for more criticism and more attention than if I'd been a father of sons or even a mother of of daughters. Uh something about that sort of competitive, sporty mum that

Judy Murray29:58

Particularly male sections of the media don't appear to like. And yeah, I but I never rose to any of it. I never I never spoke out about it. I never had a go about anything. And I just thought, don't get distracted. And the people who write these things, they don't know you as a person, and they don't know anything about our family or what our journey's been like. But I'd say that in the last two or three years, and I think you could, I definitely would link it to being given the Fed Cup captain's job. We've had a lot of success, we've built a great team spirit, and I think it showed many, many people who thought I was just Andy's and Jamie's mom that I actually am a coach, I know what I'm doing, and I have a lot of fun while I'm doing it, and that's given me a lot of confidence.

Presenter30:38

Time now for your seventh uh record. Tell me about this, Judy.

Judy Murray30:42

Oh, Proclaimers, uh Sunshine on Leith. My dad used to play for Hibernian Football Club. The family is all big Hibs fans and uh the Proclaimers are huge Hibs fans and this is their kind of

Judy Murray30:53

Tribute to Hibernian and the Leith area in which Easter Road is situated.

Speaker 430:58

My tears are drying.

Speaker 431:02

My tears are drying.

Speaker 431:07

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 431:14

Thank you, my tears are drying.

Speaker 431:21

What?

Speaker 431:23

What dry am

Speaker 431:26

Your beauty

Speaker 431:28

And kindness?

Speaker 431:30

May tears clear.

Speaker 431:33

My plane dead

Presenter31:35

That was the Proclaimers, and Sunshine on Leith. So we know how much you've achieved, Judy, then. A Fed Cup captain, two sons who've both become Wimbledon champions.

Presenter31:46

To what extent do you feel satisfied with what you've achieved in life?

Judy Murray31:49

Yeah, I I think what the boys ha have achieved is

Judy Murray31:54

Amazing. I have one more goal to achieve and that is to build my own tennis centre, a real community family centre where we can open up the game to many, many more people to come and play, but also for me to pass on everything that I've learned over the last, I'd say, 15 to 20 years and to create a really strong coaching workforce for Scotland.

Presenter32:18

Are you a good schmoozer? I mean, when you get in front of politicians that can approve funding, do you consider yourself somebody who can work a room pretty well?

Judy Murray32:26

Yeah, I'm world class.

Judy Murray32:29

I can be if I want to be.

Presenter32:31

Yes, and suddenly I see another glint in your eye that's a slightly different one. How do you do it then?

Judy Murray32:32

See another glimpse.

Judy Murray32:36

You talk to them passionately about your sport and what needs to be done. And, you know, that's all you can do.

Presenter32:44

Gee, when you're all alone on your island and cast away, how on earth are you gonna cope, Judy Murray?

Judy Murray32:45

We've all

Judy Murray32:49

I don't know. It's going to drive you nuts. It would drive me nuts. It would drive me absolutely crazy.

Presenter32:50

That's going to drive you back.

Presenter32:54

Let's have your final disc. Your eighths. Tell me about that.

Judy Murray32:56

Okay, final one, uh Beautiful South, Prettiest Eyes. It's a song about, you know, as you get older, it doesn't matter about all your crow's feet and all the rest of it. Your eyes don't change. Your eyes can still be really pretty and you can look gorgeous through your eyes. So I kind of identify with that.

Speaker 433:14

Now you're older and I look at your face Every wrinkle is so easy to place And I only write them down just in case That you die

Speaker 433:28

Let's take a look at these curls here

Speaker 433:31

Jessica.

Speaker 433:33

Sitting on the prettiest ice 60-25th of December

Speaker 433:41

59 Father July Not through the age of the failure, children, not through the hate of despair.

Presenter33:51

That was Prettiest Eyes from the Beautiful South. So time now, Judy, for me to give you some books. Traditionally I give everybody a copy of the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take something along to join them. What will your book be?

Judy Murray34:04

I think I'd take the Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown.

Presenter34:06

Yeah.

Presenter34:07

It's yours. And a luxury, too. What would you like to make life a little more comfortable?

Judy Murray34:13

This was a really, really difficult one.

Judy Murray34:16

But I think it would have to be my anti-wrinkle device, which is my my moisturizing cream, which is made on the kitchen table of a a lady in Fife and includes argan oil. And I think it would make me feel a whole lot better if I had that with me.

Presenter34:33

Okay, a lifetime supply of that is yours. And finally, if you had to save one of these eight tracks from the waves, which one would it be?

Judy Murray34:41

Amy MacDonald, Caledonia, definitely.

Presenter34:43

Okay, it's yours. Judy Murray, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Judy Murray34:47

Thank you.

Presenter35:28

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter35:31

You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.