Biddy Baxter

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the T V producer Biddy Baxter, a broadcasting legend. She was in charge of Blue Peter for twenty three highly successful years.

Presenter0:44

Responsible for the coveted Blue Peter badges, multi million pound charity fundraising appeals, and a nationwide lust for something called sticky backed plastic, her master stroke was getting the young audience involved, although the programme's weekly post bag of around seven thousand letters must have given her a few headaches.

Presenter1:02

In spite of some early careers advice that no one from Durham has ever got into the BBC, her determination to make a career in broadcasting won out, and across the decades her steely reputation kept the show at the top of the ratings and steered it through quite a few mishaps and the odd spot of scandal. She says simply, it was an exercise in trying to make children feel as if they belonged.

Presenter1:26

So, Biddy Baxter, you make that idea sound very simple indeed, but as we know, there are entire corporations dedicated to that ideal these days. What was your strategy?

Biddy Baxter1:35

Oh. The beginning of the strategy was a symbol.

Biddy Baxter1:38

I got in touch with Tony Hart, young up and coming designer, and he designed the galleon. I mean it's now everybody has logos, but it didn't happen then. And we said that this ship has got to be on absolutely everything, the writing paper, the fan photographs, in the studio. So the programme is synonymous with the ship. And I suppose you could make the analogy if you wanted to, that the programme was going off on a voyage of adventure, but it was just a very good symbol.

Presenter2:09

Your name is synonymous with Blue Peter, so much so that when I told people I was coming to speak to you today, they said she still does it, doesn't she?

Presenter2:17

Many, many years since you've done it. We're going to talk about what you brought to the programme in some detail later on, as you would expect. But I'm wondering what.

Speaker 12:17

Many, many years since you

Presenter2:25

The programme gave you

Biddy Baxter2:27

I just felt very, very, very lucky, and doubly lucky, well, trebly lucky, really, I mean, the viewers who made it.

Biddy Baxter2:34

No point in not using their ideas. It had to be their programme. Absolutely terrific production teams. And the presenters, we've had some brilliant presenters. So all together, that I think that's the answer.

Presenter2:48

And of course they had to be up to doing it live. Live was such an important part of the programme, wasn't it?

Biddy Baxter2:53

Enormously important. I think psychologically everybody it puts everyone on their metal. And it's it's hazardous because if disasters happen, which they they do happen, you can't go back and do a retake, but worth it because all the adrenaline is working.

Presenter3:10

Speaking of disasters happening, of course, I've got to ask you about little Lulu the Elephant, who made her presence felt. You're rolling your eyes. Do you get sick of talking about Lulu the Elephant?

Biddy Baxter3:17

No, no, I don't. But it was all I feel so sorry for poor Smithy, the keeper. I mean, Lulu was a baby elephant.

Presenter3:24

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter3:24

Of enormous strength. And Smithy, her keeper, was a tiny, rotund gentleman, and he came with this absolutely horrendous stick with a sharp metal spike on it, like a spear. I said, I'm terribly sorry, Mr Smith, but you can't have that. You know, we can't

Biddy Baxter3:42

Just have to put it away. So that was taken away from him. So, of course, when it all went pear-shaped, because they gave her water, the presenters, and first of all, she urinated, which melted the floor paint and made it like an ice rink. And then, on top of that, she defecated. And Smithy was so upset.

Presenter3:52

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter4:06

Uh

Presenter4:06

He was more than upset.

Biddy Baxter4:08

Yeah. Oh, they went.

Presenter4:08

He went skidding through it, didn't he?

Biddy Baxter4:10

Yes, of course you did. I'd forgotten. Yes, that was the coup de grace.

Presenter4:14

Did you know it was television gold, or were you worried?

Biddy Baxter4:17

I wasn't worried at all. I thought, well, you know, that's life.

Presenter4:18

No.

Presenter4:23

I'm sorry for laughing so much, but just the memory of it makes the tears run down my face. Um you haven't chosen Barnacle Bill, which was of course the theme tune, still is the theme tune to Blue Peter. You you're a a passionate music person. How have you gone about choosing your list?

Biddy Baxter4:35

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter4:36

I've chosen with huge difficulty, but I'm sure all the castaways find it hugely difficult. And it's really music that's meant a lot to me, and that's why my first choice is the Ceremony of Carols and then Temple Britons. We sang that at school. I was in the first the junior choir and then the senior choir, and we had the harpist Maria Kuchynska.

Speaker 14:49

Also

Biddy Baxter4:59

Who was very, very talented and well known in those days, who accompanied us. And it was just magical.

Speaker 45:08

Yeah.

Speaker 15:11

Dell bronze.

Speaker 45:14

I just live under the bottom and in the ball

Speaker 45:18

Fast winter, forgive us.

Speaker 45:21

Teo craziers, teon crazinos.

Speaker 15:24

Television

Speaker 45:27

It almost for an apple, an apple that he took, a spark as fire, blazing in apple.

Speaker 45:35

Deon Gracios, Deon Gracios.

Speaker 15:35

Tell Grant's, Tonkranz.

Speaker 45:40

Nehati apple ticker bee, the apple ticker bee, the cat and the far lady, a bee-hippy queen, there should be no time that level ticker was never waiting.

Biddy Baxter5:45

Fuck a brazen A beef and be queen, there should be no time The level digger was never made the same

Speaker 45:53

Wait, what's it

Speaker 45:54

We are Sunday Second, something

Presenter6:13

That was your first choice, Biddy Baxter. It was Deo Gracias from Benjamin Britton's Ceremony of Carols, sung by the choir of St John's College, Cambridge, conducted there by George Guest. I said in my introduction, I used the word scandals, and I used that sort of in quotation marks, really, because during your time there weren't any huge scandals, but there was a fair kerfuffle when you had the presenter, Janet Ellis, on, and she became pregnant and she wasn't married. Were there actually complaints to the BBC?

Biddy Baxter6:39

Yes, there were absolutely no complaints from children. It was um adults oh, and a few rather snotty elderly teenagers who were being a bit holier than thou but I mean, the programme wasn't intended for adults anyway, so it didn't really matter.

Presenter6:56

Uh I think that people when they think of Blue Peter back in the sixties and seventies, they do think of it as being rather stuck in a time warp, and in no sense is that true. Blue Peter was actually pioneering in very many ways. At one point you had a a little the Blue Peter baby on, I think was that at the beginning of the seventies, and the people who were charged with looking after the Blue Peter baby were very much the boys.

Biddy Baxter7:16

Oh, certainly. It would have been fatal to have um given the baby items to the girls I mean, eight year olds and nine year old boys would have switched off in their millions. So no, that was deliberate, and quite right, too.

Presenter7:28

Were you always conscious of that, of of of pushing the barriers forward?

Biddy Baxter7:32

No, not particularly. Really, first and foremost, was using their ideas. And we had this correspondence unit. All people who won badges were done on an index, and then all incoming badge worthy letters were checked against the index, so we could say, Oh, dear Kirsty, the last time you wrote to us was in nineteen so and so and so and so your guinea pig had a bad paw, you know, we do hope he's better now. And it was very, very important because I'd had this a dreadful experience with Enid Blyton. What had happened with Enid Blyton? Well, I wrote to her when I was I must have been about six, I suppose.

Biddy Baxter8:12

And I had a reply absolutely wonderful and best day of my life and so, of course, typical small child. About three weeks later I wrote again

Biddy Baxter8:23

I had the identical reply.

Biddy Baxter8:26

And I remember bursting into tears and going and going to see my mother and saying she doesn't remember me. So that was something that I was so aware of with the Blue Peter badges. And we had this correspondence unit and we tried to not send people duplicate letters. It's time for your second disconnect, Biddy. What are we going to hear? Well, we're going to hear an excerpt from the Saint Matthew Passion.

Presenter8:49

And why have you chosen?

Biddy Baxter8:50

Yeah.

Presenter8:50

Uh

Biddy Baxter8:50

I've chosen that because when I was a child, when I was growing up in Leicester, they had a marvellous bach choir.

Presenter8:50

Hi.

Biddy Baxter8:58

and every year they put on the Passion in a church that has now become Leicester's Cathedral. And I always used to go, and it was just a magic moment of growing up.

Speaker 49:13

Fourth is

Presenter10:10

The final chorus from Bach's St. Matthew Passion, sung by the King's College Choir, Cambridge, conducted by Nicolas Arnancourt. So, Biddy Baxter, I think it could fairly be argued that throughout your career you demonstrated an instinctive understanding of what it was that children wanted to see and be involved in. I'm wondering when you were little, how did you see the world? What what sort of little girl was Biddy Baxter?

Presenter10:33

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter10:33

passionate about nature and the countryside and animals. We always had a dog. We started off, I think, when I was born. We had this black spaniel called Bess and she was very sweet. She she she let me brush her paws and and then throughout the rest of growing up we had a a a m marvellous mongrel.

Biddy Baxter10:54

And that's one of the reasons why I was very keen to have animals on Blue Peter.

Presenter10:59

So smart, because of course not every child can have a puppy. Exactly. Yes, through Blue Peter, they could, really.

Biddy Baxter11:03

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter11:04

A dog a dog

Presenter11:05

Uh

Biddy Baxter11:05

Talk for everyone. Tell me about you

Presenter11:06

You are mother and father, then?

Biddy Baxter11:08

What what were they like?

Biddy Baxter11:09

They were, I suppose, typical of their era. My father had a a lovely voice, and my mother was a very accomplished pianist, so they would sing and play together, and my mother was

Biddy Baxter11:21

quite deaf and was told that you know by the time she was in her forties she would be very very deaf indeed and um she always used to say to people i'm hard of hearing you know and they would for about one minute or two minutes speak up and then of course they they wouldn't and so she really took refuge with with the piano and when she went to uh social evenings people always said oh will you play for us so she sat at the piano and played and um that was good

Presenter11:51

Being the child of somebody who has a disability can make children very resilient and also quite empathetic. Do you think it had an impact on your character?

Biddy Baxter11:59

Dim.

Presenter11:59

Bye.

Biddy Baxter12:00

have done. It was useful thinking of the Blue Peter appeals, and we did do a very successful appeal for deaf children, and I did think of my mother a lot then.

Presenter12:09

You always used to alternate your appeals, didn't you? You had one that was based on a need at home and then one that was based abroad. And so many charities today, television charities I'm thinking of especially, seem to have learned a lot from that.

Biddy Baxter12:21

Well, I hope so. It was quite deliberate, because you know, we we just felt it was important to hammer home charity doesn't begin at home.

Biddy Baxter12:28

And we always ask for rubbish, not for money.

Presenter12:32

Yes, milk bottle tops is the one I always remember.

Biddy Baxter12:34

Yes, oh yes, they're very, very good indeed. We didn't want to discriminate against children who weren't well off. And then we had to work out the statistics for the amount of the rubbish we were collecting that could be sent for the minimum postage. Let's have some more music, Biddy Baxter. What's next? I was the last year of school certificate and the English exam. We were doing travels with a donkey, Robert Louis Stevenson, his journey in the Cevenne. And he started off with this donkey from a little village called Le Monastier. And I went to stay with a family at Saint-Étienne.

Biddy Baxter13:10

who were quite pleasant, but they weren't the slightest bit interested in L'Homonastier and Robert Louis Stevenson, so, big adventure, I went on my own, on three different buses, to this tiny little village,

Biddy Baxter13:24

And lo and behold, it was exactly just as it had been described in the book. And I took photographs, it was lovely. But it was such a tiny village. There was nothing now. There was nowhere to eat, nowhere to have a cup of coffee, and the only bus, there were two buses a day, and so I had to wait for the whole day to get the bus back to civilisation. But I'd been there.

Speaker 113:47

Advent, Milor, vous à soir, matab, il faç for tablese, et vous père, milor, et pour né biè vous, vou pè nonsur mon cœur, et baux piè sur nouches, je vous connes milor, mune ma veja, mais vous, jeansu que ne pie du por, punom bour de la rue.

Presenter14:17

Edith Pieff, Anne Milard. So, Biddy Baxter, you were around about six, I think, when war broke out. Can you remember what impact it had on you and your family?

Biddy Baxter14:27

The war was absolutely wonderful.

Biddy Baxter14:31

I was too young to be frightened.

Biddy Baxter14:34

At the bottom of the garden we had this awful air raid shelter that my father had built, duckboard, it was always full of water, and getting up in the middle of the night, putting on my little siren suit, and we put on me and friends, you know, we did bring-and-buy sales for the Spitfire Fund and for the Red Cross. And it was just very exciting. And I remember I made the headline, not headlines, but I made a piece in the Leicester Mercury. I never liked dolls, I liked teddy bears, and it wasn't a sacrifice. One of my dolls I put out as a raffle, prize in a raffle, and I went round loads and loads of houses, knocking on doors with this doll, saying, Will you buy a raffle ticket? I mean, can you imagine doing it nowadays? Anyway, the Leicester Mercury wrote this absolutely soppy piece saying I'd sacrificed my favourite doll. And it was my first disillusionment with the press, because I said to my mother, It's not true. I don't like her. I'm glad she's going.

Presenter15:40

It was useful. You learned early, I imagine. What about school? How did you get on?

Biddy Baxter15:44

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter15:45

Um I was absolutely hopeless at maths. I mean, really hopeless. And I think I mystified the staff because there I was getting sort of ninety eight per cent in my English exams and three per cent in maths.

Presenter16:00

Uh

Biddy Baxter16:00

Uh

Presenter16:00

The ones that are

Biddy Baxter16:00

But

Presenter16:00

Watson Crow

Biddy Baxter16:00

Yeah.

Presenter16:00

And those sort of things.

Biddy Baxter16:02

I was very interested in the f

Presenter16:03

Interested. I couldn't, sadly, I couldn't draw. The reason I ask, of course, is I mentioned the sticky back plastic. That was a central part of the appeal of Blue Peter, was imagining that you could make these I mean, they were terrifically accomplished, the little models and things that you were making out of squeezy bottles and so on. But do you think that partially that came out of that childhood that was lived through the war, of the sort of you know, you make, do and mend?

Biddy Baxter16:17

We're making out of

Biddy Baxter16:19

And so on.

Biddy Baxter16:26

Well, it's a lovely thought, Kirstie, but I'd think perhaps not. Oh, Damn. I think I.

Biddy Baxter16:32

No, I think we we had the most amazing stroke of luck on the programme. Out of the blue a parcel arrived for Valerie Singleson. It was from a lady called Margaret Parnell.

Biddy Baxter16:44

And she'd made some absolutely beautiful dolls dresses.

Biddy Baxter16:49

And they were a great success, and Margaret became our Blue Peter makes lady. And journalists would never believe me, but those makes were equal tie with all the action films. They really were. Children are amazingly creative, even if they grow up to be ham-fisted.

Presenter17:09

Yeah.

Presenter17:10

Um, you left school then and went on to Durham University. At that point, I mean, it.

Presenter17:15

Women going to university, that was uh hovering around the six percent mark. How did you find it? Oh, wonderful. Oops.

Biddy Baxter17:23

Absolutely wonderful. I was so lucky to go to Durham because I was reading social studies.

Biddy Baxter17:30

And it was a very interesting cause.

Biddy Baxter17:33

But in the long vacation you were meant to go and do, you know, work in a factory or work in a in a in a hospital. I went to work.

Biddy Baxter17:43

in Leicester's huge uh psychiatric hospital. And really, th they were terribly short staffed. And I was sent out there I was, totally ignorant trainee, still at university. I was sent out to visit patients who'd been discharged and write reports on how they were coping with life. And these reports went to the doctors.

Biddy Baxter18:08

How completely fascinating. Were you shocked by anything that you found? I think I took it all in my stride, really. I was so excited that I was doing it. I certainly wasn't frightened.

Biddy Baxter18:20

Yeah.

Presenter18:20

Let's have some more music, Biddy Baxter. Tell me what we're going to hear next. We're on your fourth choice of the day.

Biddy Baxter18:25

Ah.

Biddy Baxter18:26

Carmen, a film was made.

Biddy Baxter18:30

called Carmen Jones.

Biddy Baxter18:32

And I thought it was one of the most thrilling things I'd ever seen on a sc on a screen. It was dynamic, it was exciting. I think it would be very good for me on that island because it it might even make me get up out of the sand and do a bit of dancing myself.

Speaker 418:53

I'll tell you why I wanna dance. It ain't the sweetness in the music. I like the sweetness in the music. But daddy, why I wanna dance? It's something thumping in the bass. I'm bumping underneath the music. That bump, bump, bumping under music is all I need to start me off. I don't need nothing else to start me off. Beat up, dad, rhythm on a drum. Beat up, dad, rhythm on a drum. Beat up, dad, rhythm on a drum. And I don't need no tune at all. Big day by Brother Mother Rum, Big Lazar, Brother Mother Run.

Speaker 419:46

I don't need no survival.

Presenter19:54

Beat out that rhythm on a drum from the original Broadway cast recording of BZ's Carmen Jones. So, Biddy Baxter, tell me, um, under what circumstances were you told no one from Durham has ever got into the B B C?

Biddy Baxter20:08

Well, that was the appointments officer, Mr BEQ Smith, at Durham University, and it was the first time Durham had had any one like that. Anyway,

Biddy Baxter20:20

You had to go to see him in your last year.

Biddy Baxter20:24

And all the men in my year were being sent on exciting assignments to industry, read the arts, and if you're a girl, he had two suggestions. One was a secretarial course, and the other was teacher training.

Biddy Baxter20:41

And I didn't despise either of those, I just didn't want to do them. And I was mooching around his office one day and I saw this incredible advert for the B B C went Are you interested in the arts? Do you like people? Do you like

Biddy Baxter20:55

I said, Oh, Mr Smith, I'd I'd this is really what I'd want to love to apply for this and he looked absolutely shocked Oh, Miss Baxter, nobody from Durham has ever joined the B B C And I went immediately and applied.

Presenter21:11

You became a radio producer. You were in charge of programmes like Listen well, producing programmes like Listen with Mother, um, programmes for school radio, and then you joined Blue Peter as a television producer. I'm wondering why they thought that you had the experience to be a television producer.

Biddy Baxter21:27

I didn't have the experience. I mean, it was miraculous. But, again, luck plays such a great part in one's life. The head of the department said at a departmental meeting, well, this person's coming from the radio, and I didn't know, but practically the whole of the department had applied for this job and were not at all pleased that some ignoramus from the radio had got it. Anyway, he asked a very experienced member of the department called Edward Barnes if he said he said, You'll have to look after Biddy, you'll have to show her what to do, because she doesn't know anything about television. And Edward was absolutely furious, but bless his heart, he decided you might as well go along with this. And he showed me the ropes. And then.

Biddy Baxter22:13

He said, Well, I've got a friend who's been assistant formerly, Rosemary Gill. I'll get her seconded to the programme, and the three of us stayed together working for many years.

Presenter22:24

Let's have some more music, Biddy Baxter. We're on your fifth. Tell me about this.

Biddy Baxter22:28

Ah, now this is very, very nostalgic for me. It's from Healy Hutchinson's Carol Symphony, and it was used in 1943, Radio Children's Hour, John Macefield's Box of Delights, and it was the theme music. And we also used it in 1969 when a Blue Peter presenter, Valerie Singleton, was asked to switch on the Trafalgar Square Christmas Tree lights.

Biddy Baxter22:58

We'd filmed a tree being cut down in Norway and being carted over and so forth and putting it up. Then came the magical switch-on day.

Biddy Baxter23:06

And it was very exciting.

Presenter24:13

And ante quasi lento en catable from Victor Healy Hutchinson's Carol Symphony played by the Proarte Orchestra conducted there by Barry Rose. So, Biddy Baxter, let's talk for a moment then about finding the right sort of what's called on-screen talent. The rest of the world knows it as presenters for Blue Peter. They were utterly crucial to the programme's success. What was it you were looking for in your ideal presenter?

Biddy Baxter24:36

Well, obviously somebody who was totally competent and who was, as they say, in the theatre of quick study, because they only got the script the night before the programme was on air.

Biddy Baxter24:46

And because so much information was given out on the programme, there had to be a script. I mean, you couldn't give the audience wrong information. It had to have a script.

Biddy Baxter24:56

We didn't have um auto queue uh for years and years and years and years and years, so they had to learn them. So you had to have s somebody who who was competent in that way.

Presenter25:06

Peter Purvis once said that

Presenter25:09

Of you, Biddy Baxter. She absolutely ruled it. I didn't always agree with her views, but she was brilliant.

Biddy Baxter25:16

Good heaven.

Presenter25:16

Bunus

Biddy Baxter25:17

Did he really say?

Presenter25:18

He really did say that. That's a direct quote.

Biddy Baxter25:18

You really did say that. That's a direct quote.

Presenter25:20

Thank you, Peter. But it's interesting that he says you absolutely ruled it. That's what I'm getting at there.

Biddy Baxter25:27

Well, I mean, if you're an editor, you have to be an editor. I mean, you can't please everybody all of the time.

Biddy Baxter25:34

I mean, you you can't everything can't be done by committee.

Presenter25:37

Tell me about John Noakes, because uh for so many people he was our favourite presenter. How did you get on with him? Because he has s described you as a very, very difficult woman.

Presenter25:48

Ah

Biddy Baxter25:48

Uh

Presenter25:48

Okay.

Biddy Baxter25:48

Bus I take that as a compliment. No, he was superb. John was one of the very best presenters that we've ever had on the programme.

Presenter25:57

How did you earn your free?

Biddy Baxter25:58

Uh

Presenter25:58

Uh

Biddy Baxter25:58

Mm. Credible reputation, do you think?

Biddy Baxter26:01

I I I mean, I'm really shocked. I didn't know I had one. I mean, I can't do anything about it now. But but the point is, it worked. Whatever we did and whatever mistakes we made, it worked because we did please an audience.

Presenter26:15

I've read about you when you're talking about the programme. You seem very mindful in leading your production team that the impact of anything they did on the children had to always be front and centre of their minds. And I've heard you talk about an instance where there was the beautiful little puppy Petra, and the puppy was chosen by a vet, it seemed perfectly healthy, and within a couple of days, I'm afraid to say it had dropped dead, and you replaced it without telling the viewers, the children. Why was that?

Biddy Baxter26:42

Not a couple of days, within a day. Within a day. Within a day. Well, um it was deliberate because the little thing had only made one very brief appearance. The audience hadn't had time to become fond of it.

Presenter26:45

Brigade

Biddy Baxter26:57

and I just thought they would be upset, and it wasn't appropriate to cause them that distress, and so we scoured the country and got a duplicate, and it wasn't noticed at all.

Biddy Baxter27:11

And I'm convinced we did exactly the right thing.

Presenter27:14

You'll be aware, of course. Everybody's aware that, you know, we live in times that are highly scrutinized now. Do you think you get away with it these days?

Presenter27:21

I hope so, because I think it's common sense.

Presenter27:24

Let's have some more music then. We're on

Biddy Baxter27:26

You're six. Yeah. Tell me about this. The Schubert. We use this as music for an absolutely idyllic film we made on Narrowboats on the Canal.

Biddy Baxter27:37

And it was also used for the obituary of one of Petra's puppies, Patch, who John Noakes looked after. So I think of the dog when I hear this music. But it was very, very beautiful indeed.

Speaker 428:09

Uh

Speaker 428:10

It's simple.

Presenter28:58

The allegro from Schubert's string quintet in C major for two cellos played by the Amadeus Quartet conducted there by Robert Cohen.

Presenter29:06

So as we've discussed, Biddy Baxter, there was um the ship, which would now be called a logo, there was the interactivity, which came via the letters, there were the star presenters. Um the programme enjoyed such huge success under your tenure.

Presenter29:20

Did you realize at any point during your time working on Blue Peter that actually you were creating and changing children's television in a fundamental way that would last for decades?

Biddy Baxter29:32

No, I didn't, because

Presenter29:34

What we were doing seemed to me so obvious. And did you ever think, well, I'm just going to trust my gut on this one? I know other people don't think it's a good idea, but I just know it's going to fly.

Biddy Baxter29:45

I mean, we'd never had any huge arguments about programme material. I mean, I would never have um included anything that I thought wasn't going to work or wasn't suitable.

Biddy Baxter29:57

The world was our oyster, but there was nothing we couldn't cover.

Biddy Baxter30:00

Or didn't cover, except politics, which was no interest for children whatsoever. So, I mean, if you can't make a magazine programme work, you're pretty dumb.

Presenter30:08

You had a reputation for being somebody that fiercely defended your patch and when it came to dealing with people higher up the tree.

Presenter30:16

Can you? I mean, I you know, you've got that look in your eyes, so you're not going to tell me, but please do tell me about what sort of confrontations you had with people, because I'm sure they happened.

Biddy Baxter30:24

No, I w I'm not certain I would tell you anything, Kirsty.

Biddy Baxter30:29

No, they were no, the bosses actually were marvellous. I mean, if they had children, I always used to give them the Blue Peter annual at Christmas. Well, they ought to know, anyway. Softening up to it. I mean, the big battles we had, the really big battles we had with programme planning, and we fought tooth and nail to have the biggest studios because there was something so dramatic about having studio spectaculars doing something within the confines of the studio.

Presenter30:39

Softening up technique, yeah.

Biddy Baxter30:59

And we had a lot of rows. But I think in a way it w it was the Chinese water torture technique won, because they were so fed up arguing they stopped arguing.

Presenter31:07

I've seen photographs of you from the time, and it is very clear that the camera loved you. You also have a beautiful voice, and you're very articulate. Did anybody ever try to persuade you to go on the other side of the camera?

Biddy Baxter31:18

Absolutely not. I would have loathed to have gone on the other side of the camera. I really, really would. I mean, I know my limitations. No, no, I I was I was incredibly happy doing what I was doing. And thank you for being so flattering, Kirsty. You've made my day.

Presenter31:33

Let's have some more music, Biddy Baxter. We're on your seventh choice. Tell me what we're going to hear now.

Biddy Baxter31:39

Ah my husband, John Hosier.

Biddy Baxter31:43

He spent most of his working life in trying to raise funds for brilliantly talented but totally impecunious.

Biddy Baxter31:50

graduates from the Music Conservatoires to proceed to postgraduate studies. And he asked me, before he died, if I could form some sort of trust to provide scholarships, which of course I did, and dear Simon Rattle, who'd worked with John, agreed to be patron.

Biddy Baxter32:09

And one of these was the classical guitar player, Milosz Karadaglic, who was a winner of the John Hosey Music Trust Scholarship.

Biddy Baxter32:18

He's now become an international star.

Biddy Baxter32:21

And his Albert Hall concert in twenty twelve was a sell out, which I think's pretty phenomenal for a solo classical guitar.

Presenter33:33

The allegro from the Concerto de Aranquev, composed by Joquin Rodrigo, played there by Milos Kardaglich and the London Philharmonic Orchestra. Biddy Baxter, do you ever watch Blue Peter these days?

Biddy Baxter33:45

No, I don't see it I don't see it at all often, Kirsty, but I do keep in touch with the production team, and they're all absolutely terrific.

Biddy Baxter33:56

I I admire them very much and I th I think they do an extremely good job in difficult circumstances.

Presenter34:03

Now, how much of a practical person are you, Biddy? We know that over the years you tried to convince us from behind the scenes that we could make, do and mend, and that we could build, you know, canoes out of squeezy washing up bottles and so on. But you on this island, how will you call?

Biddy Baxter34:17

I hate creepy crawlies.

Biddy Baxter34:20

I'm just praying that the only wildlife I come across are seagulls and crabs, and not ghastly insects. I love food, and I'm sure the desert island diet will be good for my figure, but as there'll be nobody there to look at it

Biddy Baxter34:37

I don't think I'd be very good on a desert island, to be perfectly honest, and I really would miss people.

Presenter34:44

Let's have your final choice of the day then. Tell me about this, your eighth disc.

Biddy Baxter34:47

This is from the Magic Flute, and it's the Papageno duet. And this would make me laugh, it would cheer me up, it would remind me of John, and it would make me happy.

Speaker 435:04

Huh?

Speaker 435:05

Ha ha ha.

Speaker 435:08

Papa Papa Papa Papa Papa Papa Papa Papa This will be a wolf's gatekeeper my leave as fifteen you inheritance My field is fighting as fifteen

Speaker 135:12

Uh

Speaker 135:27

Please

Speaker 135:31

Yeah.

Speaker 135:34

Yeah.

Speaker 135:35

Ultra.

Speaker 135:37

Read it for

Speaker 435:42

Keep the eye.

Speaker 135:42

They are

Speaker 435:45

Kingdom I Kingdom So Kingdom Leaves Plika Tapagino Donikin Papagino On Pina Island Tapagino Dan Island Papagino Papagin Papagino Papagin Papa Gino Papa Gin

Speaker 436:07

Dingo.

Presenter36:10

That was the Papagena Duet from Mozart's Magic Flute, played by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted there by Sir Simon Rattle. So, Biddy Baxter, I'm going to send you off to your island now, all alone. Aside from the music, you'll also have the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take another book, too. What would it be?

Biddy Baxter36:27

I think

Biddy Baxter36:29

I will go for a book called Traveller's Tree.

Biddy Baxter36:32

By Patrick Lee Firmore Yeah.

Presenter36:34

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter36:34

Right, we shall give you that. And A luxury too. Well, could Can it be food?

Presenter36:39

It cannot be food.

Presenter36:41

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter36:41

I can't have dripping toast.

Biddy Baxter36:44

What I really want.

Presenter36:46

Oh gosh, now you're you're staring at me with those great big blue eyes.

Presenter36:51

Uh

Presenter36:52

Trip

Biddy Baxter36:52

Thank you.

Presenter36:52

With the jelly bit of the dripping.

Biddy Baxter36:53

Was the job?

Presenter36:55

All right, then. I'm going to get into trouble for that, but you can have it. And if you had to pick just one of the eight to save, which one would it be?

Biddy Baxter37:02

Well, that's a nightmare question, but I think probably the Schubert. It would calm me down.

Presenter37:07

It's yours, Biddy Baxter. Thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Biddy Baxter37:11

Yeah. Uh

Presenter37:11

The huge

Biddy Baxter37:12

Uh

Presenter37:12

Yeah.

Biddy Baxter37:12

Major Kirsty, thank you.

Presenter37:57

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk/radio4.