Malorie Blackman

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the writer Mallory Blackman. A prolific and multi award winning author, she has powered her way to success not just through talent, but dogged determination and perseverance too.

Presenter0:46

From the Careers mistress, who told her black people don't become teachers, to the eighty two rejection letters she received before she was published, significant parts of her life seem to have been spent proving people wrong.

Presenter0:58

A technology whiz, her first career was in computing. As a writer her books have tackled challenging themes bullying, teenage pregnancy, racism, and terrorism.

Presenter1:07

Currently children's laureate, her own formative years were spent in South London, where, as a little girl, she went from thinking everyone was her friend to feeling, as a teenager, that the world was her enemy.

Presenter1:18

She says Good stories made me reassess the world and people as I thought I knew them. Great stories made me reassess myself. So Mallory Blackman, assessing ourselves.

Presenter1:28

I think that's a very tricky thing to do. What would you have put in the introduction that I didn't?

Presenter1:33

I think that was a beautiful introduction, thank you. In terms of an assessment of who you are, how would you sum yourself up?

Malorie Blackman1:40

I'm still working that out. You know, there's certain things I think, oh, I'm not sure how I feel about that. So I think it's an ongoing process, but I think that's the way it should be, really.

Presenter1:49

Children and particularly teenagers are who you specialize in writing for, and I would say that teenagers are are just about as tough as it gets in terms of an audience. As a readership, for them, how do you judge the right subjects in the right tone?

Malorie Blackman2:03

I go for first and foremost, I go for the subjects that I would have been interested in as a teenager, all the topics I'd love to have read about as a teenager. I hated it when people would say, Oh, but you won't understand that and or they'd patronize you. So I desperately try not to do that in my books. And what were you reading as a teenager?

Speaker 12:19

And

Malorie Blackman2:21

Well there were very few books for teenagers when I was growing up, quite a while ago. And so I went straight from the age of 10, 11 I went straight on to reading adult books. And I was lucky because I had a really good librarian because I was down the library so often and she gave me Jane Eyre when I was 11 and the first couple of chapters I was thinking hmm and then I got hooked and I loved it so much and then I read Rebecca and then I've devoured George Eliot and so many others and I and then I got into Shakespeare and I'd read Shakespeare's plays for myself and I read some highly unsuitable things for 11 year olds like Jacqueline Suzanne and Dennis Wheatley and Harold Robbins and so on.

Presenter3:00

Are you one of those people who can't give a book away once you've read it? Do you have all your books?

Malorie Blackman3:05

I am afraid I do, yes. We have uh fifteen thousand odd books in our house.

Presenter3:09

What?

Malorie Blackman3:11

That's one big house. It's not actually. They're just piled up all over the floor and um bookcases back to back and we're in the attic and every room apart from the bathrooms have has bookcases in it.

Presenter3:12

That's one big hope.

Presenter3:23

I've read that you're one of these people who likes to learn something new every year. What what are you learning this year?

Malorie Blackman3:28

Well, actually I'm continuing with my Chinese. I started Chinese for a term two years ago and last year it was drumming. I kind of dabble in things. It's a bit dilettante of me, but but I do like to kind of do things that stretch my mind, my imagination, stretch my abilities.

Presenter3:45

Speaking of your imagination, I would think, being the sort of writer that you are, you've imagined your island that you're going to be cast away onto, have you? Yes.

Malorie Blackman3:50

Yes. What are you picturing?

Malorie Blackman3:53

A tropical island

Malorie Blackman3:55

White sands, blue skies, blue sea, and absolute peace and quiet.

Presenter4:01

Okay, let's listen then to some of the music that's going to accompany you on this rather idyllic sounding island. Tell me about your first choice this morning. What are we going to hear, Malory?

Malorie Blackman4:08

We're going to hear Uniting Nations Together by Lady Smith Black Man Bozzo. Joseph Shabalala is the the lead singer is such a brilliant songwriter. And I just love the sentiment of this and I love the a cappella sound and I love the message in this song as well.

Speaker 44:40

I am not a man of the world.

Speaker 44:47

Omenan, for me to salvage,

Presenter4:57

Lady Smith, Blackman Bazzo and Abazizwe Uniting Nations Together. So, Mallory Blackman, you have p well, I've got down here, you've published over sixty books now. How many exactly do you know? I think it's about sixty sixty one now. Okay, I'm not gonna say that.

Malorie Blackman5:09

Not but I stopped counting after fifty to be honest.

Presenter5:11

I'm not going to listen all because obviously that would take too long, but I think probably it would be fair to say that you are best known for the Knots and Crosses series. It is, for those who haven't read it, a sort of dystopian fantasy that is centered on discrimination and racism, and very cleverly it's all in reverse. It is the whites who are discriminated against in the Western world. How much did you mind your own experience for the heart of that book?

Malorie Blackman5:35

Far more than for any of my other books, actually. Callum, The White Boy in it, some of the things he goes through are based on real experiences I had. Like the first time I travelled first class on a train, and the ticket inspector accused me of stealing the ticket. And that was kind of quite fraught because everyone's looking at me, and I was so embarrassed. But I thought, I've bought this, and he was going, where'd you get this ticket from? Where'd you get this ticket from? Did you stand up to him?

Malorie Blackman6:01

I did in that I said I bought it I bought it but it was it was

Malorie Blackman6:05

It was one of those things where I was absolutely mortified and felt totally humiliated and Neoni kind of and walked off.

Malorie Blackman6:15

And things like sort of saying to my history teacher, How come we never talk about black scientists and inventors and achievers in history? And she said, Because there aren't any and I didn't know enough at the time, this was when I was sort of thirteen, fourteen, um to come back at her and sort of mention a few names.

Presenter6:31

Um talking about history, let's talk for a moment about recent history. The third book in the in that series called Checkmate caused a very uh big stir when it was it was published. In two thousand five, it was just a I think it was a week ahead of the London terror attacks. A female character in your book is being groomed by her uncle to become a suicide bomber. You showed extraordinary prescience there. What what occurred to you at the time of the bombings, knowing that you had just published this book with that in it?

Malorie Blackman6:58

It's one of these shocking things. When I was working in computing and I worked in the city, it was around the time of the IRA mainland bombing campaign. And I just remember how terrifying that was, where you'd kind of go to work because you had to. But it was one of those things where you thought, is this the day where I sort of catch a bomb? So of course when this happened, there were calls from various MPs who'd never read the book naturally that the book should be banned and I was trying to cash in, etc. And I just thought, cash in, I wrote this. This has taken me two years to write.

Presenter7:29

But in terms of using your imagination to create that scenario, did you feel that you were in touch with something that was possible and likely to happen in Britain? Because so many people felt a sense of extreme shock that we could home grow our own suicide bombers here in Britain at the time it happened?

Malorie Blackman7:45

I think so, I mean with I did that with Norton Crosses because Callum does join what he calls freedom fighters, but what what sort of society at large calls terrorists.

Malorie Blackman7:55

And it was very key to me to present both points of view in that book. And it is this idea of if you don't feel that you are part of society, that you have a stake in society, it's very fertile ground for extremists to say, well, come on to our side and let's do something about it.

Presenter8:10

More music then, Malory Blackmun. Tell me about your second disc of the morning. What's this?

Malorie Blackman8:14

Well, this is Redemption Song by Bob Marley, and I love Bob Marley. I love the way it's arranged. It's just him and his guitar, and the words I feel are so moving.

Speaker 48:23

How long shall they kill our prophets, While we stand aside and look? Some say it's just a part of it, We've got to fulfill the book.

Speaker 48:40

Won't you hear to sing?

Speaker 48:45

These songs of freedom.

Speaker 48:48

Cause all I ever have.

Speaker 48:53

Redim Jean Song

Speaker 48:57

De Sean Song

Presenter8:59

Bob Marley and Redemption Song. So Mallory Blackman, you have said that when you were a young child you thought the world was your friend. Tell me about where you were born.

Malorie Blackman9:08

I was born in Clapham and then we moved to Beckenham so um I went to school in Beckenham

Presenter9:12

And what do you remember?

Malorie Blackman9:13

Yeah.

Presenter9:13

Perhaps

Malorie Blackman9:13

About those very early years. Going to the park and playing and school, and I remember in my primary school learning French and loving that. And we used to have a piano in the back room, and I used to love sitting there and just sort of tinkering away. My very earliest memory is of my dad buying me a walkie-talkie doll, and he pulled the cord, and this thing came towards me, arms outstretched, going, Mamma, mamma, and I went screamed my head off, picked it up and threw it in our open fire. And my dad was just staring at me, not knowing whether to laugh or scream at me.

Presenter9:44

Your parents had come over from Barbados. Your mother worked here as a seamstress, your father was a bus driver. What what was their plan in coming to Britain?

Malorie Blackman9:51

A better life, the same as all the sort of windrush generation it was, coming to England for a better life and more opportunities for their children.

Malorie Blackman10:00

And I think it was one of these things where you come across and you think it's going to be a certain way and it's not, and it's a struggle. But that said,

Malorie Blackman10:08

Even with all the things I went through, I think I had it easier than my mum and dad when they came over here, and my daughter certainly has it easier than with me. So with each generation I do feel things get better.

Presenter10:17

And they had they had you here. Your mother gave birth to you here, but you had siblings who had been left at home and where the plan was, quite commonly, as it often happened, to bring them over. And indeed they did come over when they were, I think, eight and ten brother and sister. That must have been a massive change for them.

Malorie Blackman10:20

Geek was

Malorie Blackman10:25

Hmm.

Malorie Blackman10:30

That's right.

Malorie Blackman10:33

It was, I mean my sister says now that she all she remembers is how gray it was, how cold it was and how much she hated cornflakes so you know and I was so excited coming back from Heathrow and I'm sitting in the car and talking to them and they said they couldn't understand a word I was saying so I was talking really quickly and obv obviously they weren't kind of used to my accent so um

Presenter10:54

So you would have been about three years old?

Malorie Blackman10:56

My sister's ten, so I'd have been five.

Presenter10:57

And you mentioned their sort of tinkling on the piano and enjoying French in school. You you were a very engaged little girl, were you? You you liked learning.

Malorie Blackman11:04

I did. I must still do. That's why I do all these different courses every year. And we had a set of Encyclopedia Britannicas, which were kind of ubiquitous for black families at that time. And we had books on science and nature, all kinds of non-fiction books. My dad wasn't a fan of fiction books. He thought they were complete and utter waste of time. And his attitude was, Well, it's not real. It's not true. You need to live in the real world, Mallory. And so he refused to buy fiction books. But his thing was education, education, education and read the newspaper and learn facts. And I think he was wrong in that I think I learnt more about people and being able to walk in someone else's shoes and see through someone else's eyes from fiction books than I ever did from non-fiction.

Presenter11:44

Let's have some more music. We're on your third. Tell me about this disc.

Malorie Blackman11:47

Well this is Right Said Fred by Bernard Crivens and I chose this one because this is the first song I remember listening to on the radio that made me laugh, howl with laughter. And even now I defy anyone to listen to this song and not have a smile on their face.

Speaker 112:03

Right, said Fred, both of us together, one each ending steady as we go.

Speaker 112:10

Tried to shift it, couldn't even lift it, we was getting nowhere And so we had a cup of tea And right said Fred, give a shout for Charlie Up comes Charlie from the floor below

Speaker 112:24

After straining, eating and complaining, we was getting nowhere And so we had a cup of tea and Charlie had a

Presenter12:33

That was Bernard Crivens and Wright said, Fred, you knew every single word to that melody but

Malorie Blackman12:39

I'm hugely impressed. Well actually we have a playlist. When we have a dinner parties at our house, we have a playlist and it's kind of soulful music and a eclectic mix of music, but we always put burning quibbons in there somewhere and put it on shuffle.

Presenter12:51

Now, you've said that when you're about ten you realized that the world was not happy ever after. Why was that?

Malorie Blackman12:58

I think my mum and dad were going through um difficulties with their marriage. I mean, they split up when I was thirteen and it was a very acrimonious split. Um

Malorie Blackman13:07

But it was also things that were happening to me, I'd kind of walk down the road and I'd be either spat at or people telling me to go back to where I came from or and I'd think, well, Clap'em, give me the bus fare then. So, you know, it was a hard time. Before I'd kind of think most people were friendly and then I kind of went to the opposite extremes and thought that most people weren't. And I didn't believe in happily ever after. I wasn't seeing it reflected in my own home life.

Presenter13:33

And living through that when you were in your early adolescent years then, it it it's quite often the case that teenagers will turn it in on themselves. What did you do with that?

Malorie Blackman13:40

What do

Presenter13:42

Sense of frustration and disappointment and angst about the world.

Malorie Blackman13:46

I started keeping a diary. I didn't realize it at the time, but it was a really good way of getting into that habit of writing every day. But I I I poured all my feelings into the diary. I would write stories and poems, mostly poetry in fact, and I kind of felt

Malorie Blackman14:01

God, I I can't talk to anyone about this and some of the stuff in this full of bitterness and anger. That's how I felt at the time.

Presenter14:08

Were you encouraged to write at school?

Malorie Blackman14:11

I never got discouraged from doing it. And some of them were quite, oh, you know, you if you like writing stories, keep going and we'll we'll kind of give you feedback. So I've always had wonderful English teachers.

Presenter14:21

In class were you encouraged to come up to the front and read them out?

Malorie Blackman14:26

I wrote a poem when I was in my junior school called The Jungle and I remember the last two lines and it wasn't particularly good but my teacher liked it and she said, oh Mallory you can read this at parents' evening and she sort of got me to the front of the class and said okay read it out then and I stood there and I wouldn't say a word and she said well go on Mallory and I said I can't and she said well why not and I said I'm shy and everyone cracked up laughing and I thought I'm never gonna write another poem again but luckily I got over it but it was um a sort of horror story in that I love writing but I didn't want to I didn't want to share my stuff but it was the same when I started writing and I joined a ways into writing class and my tutor said to me I would never read my stuff out she'd go around the classroom and then she'd say okay and when it got to me she'd say Mallory do you want to read your work and I'd say no thank you not this week and every week it was no thank you not this week and after a term and a half she got fed up with me and just looked me in the eye and said Mallory do you want to be a writer and I said more than anything else in the world and she said well then you're gonna have to shit or get off the pot love and and I remember again everyone cracking up laughing and me feeling kind of thinking it was funny but feeling absolutely mortified but it was the best piece of advice I'd ever received in my life because it was one of those things about if you want to do something go for it don't don't you know do a Hamlet and dither about just go for it

Presenter15:45

Let's have some music, tell me about your fourth choice, what's this?

Malorie Blackman15:47

Oh well this is the flower duet um from Lachme by Delive. I used to do piano lessons when I was younger and I gave them up. And then I heard this and I and it made me want to take up the piano again and that it it's one of those songs that that I hear and it just brings a sense of calm and peace over me.

Speaker 416:05

Oh baby, oh wait, you're a smile.

Speaker 416:09

But I guess it is a sword.

Speaker 416:29

There's no closing on street fear.

Speaker 116:31

Feel it good, feeling.

Speaker 416:57

Yeah.

Presenter17:05

The Flower Duet from Lucknie by Delib sung there by Jennifer Lemour with He Kyung Hong.

Presenter17:11

So tell me, Mallory Blackman, this teacher, the careers teacher, she said you black people don't become teachers.

Malorie Blackman17:17

Indeed, yes. She was the one who had to write all the university references and so she said to me, Well, okay, Mallory, what do you want to do? And I'd had it all worked out from the time I was seven, eight I wanted to be an English teacher. I wanted to teach English and impart this my love and enthusiasm for English texts and and I said right I want to go to Goldsmiths College, I want to do an English and drama degree and then I want to be a teacher at the end of it and she just looked me in the eye and said well black people don't become teachers and she said well why don't you be a secretary instead?

Malorie Blackman17:46

And I looked at her and I said, I don't want to be a secretary, I want to be an English teacher. I mean, no disrespect to secretaries, but that's not what I wanted to do.

Malorie Blackman17:52

And then she said, Well, she said, I'm sorry, I'm not giving you a reference for that and she said um and besides, I don't think you're going to get your English A level, which is nonsense'cause I've never failed an English exam in my life and so I remember looking looking at her and thinking, Well, I'll show you, you old cow and if anything, actually it made me work harder.

Malorie Blackman18:09

But then she said, I'll tell you what, I'll give you a reference to go and do business studies at Polly instead.

Malorie Blackman18:14

And because that's the only thing she would give me a reference for as far as higher education was concerned, um that's what I ended up doing.

Presenter18:21

How do you look back on it now?

Malorie Blackman18:24

For years, for about three, four years, I wasted my life hating her because I thought she'd ruined my life.

Malorie Blackman18:31

I look back at it now, and if I met her, I would thank her, because she did me a favor, because she taught me.

Malorie Blackman18:39

That if somebody stands in the way of what you really, really want to do, you don't stand there arguing with them and you certainly don't let them stop you. What you do is you find a way to go round them.

Malorie Blackman18:49

And so I and I I went to college and I did my I did business studies for half a term and then I was ill and I was rushed to hospital and had to come back down to London to recuperate.

Malorie Blackman18:58

So I gave up my place at college and then I got into Goldsmiths. I applied off my own bat and I got in. And for one reason or another I never went. But the point is it proved to me that actually I could do it. I could get into university.

Presenter19:11

You've talked so much, Mallory, about books and school and I had this idea from when I was seven. What about a social life? Were you were you were you a gregarious teenager? Did you have boyfriends? Did you enjoy discos?

Malorie Blackman19:20

Did you enjoy?

Malorie Blackman19:22

Not really actually. My first serious boyfriend was when I was 19 and he was 24 and he's my hubby. So we've been together 30 cough, cough years. You know, but I lived in my head and I was always getting told off for having too much imagination and for daydreaming. One really embarrassing thing I did when I was sort of 11, 12 is I'd go to school with a leotard and tights and slipperettes in my bag, sort of a sort of black outfit. And I had this special belt which I'd adapted, which I called my utility belt. And the idea being that if kidnappers ever came into the school, I would run into the toilets, don this leotard and this outfit, and I would come out and I would do some action, kind of Bruce Lee style, and save the day. And for two years, I walked with this uniform in my school satchel. I wish you'd been my friend.

Presenter20:09

Oh.

Malorie Blackman20:12

Right.

Presenter20:13

She said, You were always weird. Let's have some more music, Mallory Blackmun. We're on your uh your fifth choice of the morning.

Malorie Blackman20:20

Well, this is What's Going On by Marvin Gaye, and I love what it says, and it's about.

Malorie Blackman20:25

You need to walk in someone else's shoes to really know them, but talk to them, don't assume things. And God knows we need some of this today because there are so many assumptions made about other people or other religions or other races or cultures or whatever.

Malorie Blackman20:40

And it seems to me we're talking less, and we should be talking more.

Speaker 420:45

You know we've got to find our way.

Speaker 420:49

To bring some love and gift here today.

Speaker 420:55

We could lie

Speaker 420:58

Tickets are

Speaker 421:00

Don't punish me without brutality.

Speaker 421:06

So you can see what's going on.

Presenter21:11

What's going on, Marvin Gaye? So there you were with your leotard and your specially adapted utility belt, and you decided, Mallory Blackman, that for all your English exams that had been passed, and passed with flying colours, you wanted to go into a

Presenter21:25

Computing, why was that?

Malorie Blackman21:27

When I was rushed to hospital and had my appendix out, I came back down to London to recuperate and I gave up my place on this business studies course because it was not for me. And I applied to Goldsmith, so I had an exam an exam, I had an interview.

Malorie Blackman21:41

And I got in and I thought I'll defer entry for a year and I'll go and work and make some money and then I'll start at Goldsmiths.

Malorie Blackman21:47

And I started working at the software house, and I'd never even touched a computer before I started working there.

Presenter21:53

And when

Malorie Blackman21:53

When would this have been

Presenter21:53

Yeah.

Malorie Blackman21:54

How big were the computers?

Presenter21:54

This

Malorie Blackman21:59

They were huge, absolutely huge. And I just loved it. And I gave up my place at Goldsmiths and I stayed in computing for nine years. Were you secretly writing? Poems, not stories. And again, for my own amusement. But then I when I was in my mid twenties I had enough of computing.

Malorie Blackman22:18

And I thought, okay, what can I do? And I tried acting classes for a while and I was a dead loss. Absolute rubbish. But I used to come up with sort of scenarios for our improvisations. And after a while, it was now Mallory, what do you think we should do? So at the end of the course, the tutor said to me, Mallory, have you ever thought about writing some of your ideas down?'Cause you come up with some really good ideas. And that's how I started on my writing classes and kind of tried to get into it. So then when you wanted to do

Presenter22:44

take that step out of a I'm sure a pretty well paid job in the being a financial markets analyst and in full time into writing. Did you worry about the cash? Did you think, How will I pay the gas bill?

Malorie Blackman22:55

Yeah, it was. And I mean, but I I was so unhappy. I mean, w it was taking its toll on me physically and mentally. I started having really bad nightmares. Um, nightmares where I'd wake up screaming.

Malorie Blackman23:06

And I was so desperately unhappy because I wanted to write. I didn't want to work in computing anymore. And so, in the end, because Neil, my hubby, could see how unhappy I was, we made a deal that I would take a year off and I would try and just write solidly for that year and see if I could make a go of it. But if I couldn't, then I'd have to go back to computing. So I'm right.

Presenter23:27

Samai, it was eighty-two rejection letters.

Malorie Blackman23:30

That's right, for about eight or nine different books.

Presenter23:32

When letter eighty three sudded onto

Malorie Blackman23:35

To the doormat.

Presenter23:37

Uh

Malorie Blackman23:37

Ha ha.

Presenter23:37

Uh

Malorie Blackman23:37

Uh

Presenter23:37

Uh

Malorie Blackman23:37

Uh said Yeah.

Presenter23:38

Yeah.

Malorie Blackman23:38

Yeah.

Presenter23:38

We quite like what you've written. Tell me about that day.

Malorie Blackman23:39

Yes.

Malorie Blackman23:40

Oh wow, I still remember that because every time the postman arrived I'd go charging down the stairs and it was always dear Mallory Blackman, not suitable for our list and no thank you. And then I heard the post and I went charging down the stairs, tore open the letter and it was dear Mallory Blackman, we would love to publish your story. And I just stood in the hall and screamed my head off. I was so thrilled and my hubby came charging down the stairs going, What's the matter? What's the matter? And I said, Oh my god, oh my god, and I just freaked out. And it was one of the best days of my life. And after my third book was accepted for publication, that's when I gave up my job.

Presenter24:15

There was a very notable author, I think, who gave you a little bit of encouragement when you went along to have your book signed. Tell me about that.

Malorie Blackman24:20

Book sign

Malorie Blackman24:22

The Colour Purple by Alice Walker was the first book I read by a black author that featured black characters, and that was when I was twenty two. That's a hell of an age to get to before you see yourself reflected in the literature you're reading.

Malorie Blackman24:34

And I remember she was doing a signing at the Silver Moon bookshop. And I thought, I don't care if I have to queue up all night. I'm going to meet this woman. So I stood there with my hardback book, finally got to the front of the queue and I said, Could you write Don't Give Up in It? And she said, I can't write that. What does that mean? And I said, Well, I really want to be a writer, but I'm getting so many rejection letters. And she just looked at me and she said, Don't you dare give up. And she wrote to Mallory, Don't Give Up, you know, Alice Walker. And I thought, Well, I can't give up now. Alice Walker's told me not to. So, you know, thank you, Alice Walker.

Presenter25:03

Let's have some more music then, Mallory Blackmun. What are we going to hear now? We're on your uh sixth.

Malorie Blackman25:07

Yes, this is the best thing that ever happened to me by Gladys Knight. And the reason I picked this is because it's for my hubby, Neil, and that's what he is. He's the best thing that ever happened to me.

Speaker 425:20

For whatever reason there might be.

Speaker 425:27

Oh, you'll be there between each land of pain and glory.

Speaker 425:39

Cause you're the best pants

Speaker 425:41

Here we go.

Speaker 425:43

That ever happened?

Speaker 425:45

To make the best thing that ever happened to me

Presenter25:49

Best thing that ever happened to me, that was Gladys Knight there. So, Mallory Blackman, how did your mum feel about you marrying, I'm presuming, a very white Scotsman, because he was a Scotsman.

Malorie Blackman25:57

Yes, indeed. Um, I'm so lucky because my mum and Neil's mum, they judge people by who they are, not the colour of their skin or religion or whatever. It's kind of, you know, take people as you find them.

Malorie Blackman26:08

And so, you know, Molly, bless her soul,'cause she died a few years ago, she was wonderful. And my mum's saying was always, as long as he makes you happy and he's good to you, then that's all that counts.

Presenter26:18

And you have said that you refused to live out the cynicism that would have actually would have been understandable and easy to adopt given the treatment that you'd been on the receiving end of, you know, in the street and at school. Did you feel that then sort of being embraced and absorbed by this uh Scottish family in some ways helped you to deal with the idea that not everybody in the world had a horrible strain of racism running through them?

Malorie Blackman26:40

I felt I dealt with it before that. When I was 13, 14, 15, I was a very angry teenager.

Presenter26:42

Right.

Malorie Blackman26:47

And I kind of felt I'm not going to live like that. I was becoming the very people I despised, quite frankly. I mean, um, and your anger was stoked by the racism.

Malorie Blackman26:55

It was partly the racism. It was also when I was I think I was thirteen at the time, twelve, thirteen and and part of it was because I I was watching a film, I went to the cinema, sat by myself, because I used to go to the cinema a lot by myself, and it was Disney's Robin Hood of all things, and um three guys came up behind me, three white guys, and two of them grabbed my arm so I couldn't move and the other one sexually assaulted me.

Malorie Blackman27:19

And I and I was so traumatized. I mean, they were laughing and they thought it was a big joke. I kind of managed to get away and ran ran away with floods of tears and absolutely traumatized.

Malorie Blackman27:29

And it was kind of they were

Malorie Blackman27:32

Horrible, and then it was all white men were horrible, and then it was all white people were horrible.

Malorie Blackman27:38

I it it got to the stage where I thought, Do I really want to live like this, hating people because of their colour? This is the very thing that I object to when people do it to me. And the thing that brought it home to me was there was a song I really loved called What You Won't Do for Love by um I think his name's Bobby Caldwell.

Malorie Blackman27:54

And I love this song. And then I thought, I'm going to go and get his album. And I went into the record shop and I found one of his albums, and he was a blonde guy. And I remember staring at this LP thinking, oh my god, he's white. And then I thought, are you really going to stop liking this song just because this guy's white? And that's when it hit me, how far I'd fallen. And so that's when I kind of caught myself and thought, no, this is silly. And it sort of taught me a lesson about you you judge people based on

Malorie Blackman28:24

How that person is, and you don't generalize and describe their behavior to like all white people, or all black people, or all Chinese people, or whatever. That's just ridiculous.

Presenter28:33

Let's have some music, Mallory, then. Tell me about your seventh choice.

Presenter28:36

Uh

Malorie Blackman28:36

Well, this is Sing by My Chemical Romance, and thank you, Lizzie, because she was the one who introduced me to this. I love this song because it says, you know what, you have a voice, and don't let anyone ever take that away from you. And don't be afraid to stand up for what you believe in. And even when you're speaking and people hate you for what you're saying.

Malorie Blackman28:57

Then, if you believe that you have something to say, stand up and say it. And I love that message.

Speaker 429:05

Let's see it.

Speaker 429:07

Girls, every time that you lose, I sing it for the world. Sing it from the

Speaker 429:19

It's up!

Speaker 429:22

Say

Speaker 429:25

Not single f.

Speaker 429:31

The world, singing on the wall.

Presenter29:34

My Chemical Romance and Sing. So, Mallory, um, just over fifty years then on this earth. As you look back at your half century, are you satisfied with your achievements so far?

Presenter29:45

Uh

Malorie Blackman29:45

I don't think satisfied is the right word. Um

Malorie Blackman29:49

I still feel I have more to do. I still feel there's plenty of things I want to do. I want to.

Malorie Blackman29:56

kind of try and make my mark. I mean, this is going to sound really silly, but there was a really bad film when I was a child called The Seven Faces of Doctor Lau with Tony Randall. He was playing seven different characters, and one of the characters was someone called Apollonius.

Malorie Blackman30:10

Who was blind, but he could actually tell people's futures. And one silly woman goes in and wants her future, and she's he says, Well,

Malorie Blackman30:17

basically tells us she's a silly woman and sh she's never made her mark in this world and when she dies nobody will ever know that she even existed. She'll be just forgotten.

Malorie Blackman30:26

And she's she's never put a step out because she was afraid of putting a step wrong and so on. And it's really strange because that bit of that film has always stuck with me because I thought

Malorie Blackman30:37

Surely the point of life is to leave the world a better place than you found it, or even with a smile. You can do it with by smiling at a stranger so they feel good about their day. It doesn't have to be huge, huge things, but just about sort of treating people the way you you would like to be treated. And I kind of feel isn't that the point of being on this planet? So am I satisfied?

Malorie Blackman30:57

No, but I feel like I'm doing what I want to do. I I'm I'm writing, which is you know, I'm one of these lucky adults who's actually doing something that I love.

Presenter31:07

And only a few months into being children's laureate then, how would you like to make your mark there?

Malorie Blackman31:12

You know, at the end of my two years, if one child comes up to me and says, Well, because of what you've done, I'm actually reading now or I'm reading more than I was, then I would feel, okay, you know, I've done some good there. My campaign, my aim is more children reading more. I've always said that, and it's about encouraging more children to read and telling them that there's so many fantastic books out there. So, if you don't like reading, you just haven't found the right book for you yet. And it is about letting children and teenagers discover books for themselves. And they have the absolute right to read books more than once, and they have the absolute right to put a book down after three chapters. I really firmly believe that.

Malorie Blackman31:50

That's what will encourage them to know that books are there for them and they're friends, and it's not about, oh, we've got to read this and we've got to read that. They get enough of that when they're doing exams.

Presenter31:58

Now, you as the dreamer, you as the person whose imagination is floating away, you on a desert island, will you be in any sense practical? Will you be able to build a shelter?

Malorie Blackman32:07

Yeah, because one of the one of the books I used to carry around for years was the SAS Handbook. It's a little pocket handbook. So it was all about if you find yourself in the desert or you find yourself in the Arctic or whatever, this is how you survive. So um I hope so. I hope I'd have those skills.

Presenter32:07

Yeah, because my

Presenter32:11

Yeah.

Presenter32:21

Let's have your final piece of music then. What are we going to hear?

Malorie Blackman32:23

This is What a Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong and I've told my hubby that if I die before him I want this played at my funeral, so I love this song.

Speaker 432:34

I see skies so blue.

Speaker 432:39

And dry snow white.

Speaker 432:42

The bright blessed day.

Speaker 432:45

The dogs have ignited.

Speaker 432:49

And I think to myself.

Speaker 432:53

What a wonderful world.

Presenter32:59

Louis Armstrong, what a wonderful world So I'm going to give you the books now, Mallory. You get the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Presenter33:06

And what's your other book gonna be?

Presenter33:08

I think it would have to be Jane Eyre. It's yours and a luxury.

Malorie Blackman33:11

Ready?

Malorie Blackman33:12

My iPad? Can I take my iPad? No, you absolutely cannot under any circumstances take your iPad.

Presenter33:16

Yeah.

Malorie Blackman33:17

Bye.

Malorie Blackman33:18

Oh oh, okay. If you're gonna be harsh, um

Presenter33:20

Um

Malorie Blackman33:21

Probably something like a bicycle or something. I think that's probably what I'd take. Fine, you can have that. Okay.

Presenter33:26

Uh

Malorie Blackman33:26

Uh

Presenter33:26

And if there was one disk that you would save from the waves, which one would it be?

Malorie Blackman33:30

Louis Armstrong. Because even if I were cast away and by myself, I'd still believe that. It's still a wonderful world.

Presenter33:37

Yours, Mallory Blackman. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. My pleasure.

Presenter33:59

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter34:02

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4.