Lee Mack

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the comedian Lee Mack.

Presenter0:37

He writes and stars in the BBC One hit Not Going Out. His stand-up tours do great business, and his lightning-sharp comedy reflexes are also put to good use on a number of prime-time panel shows. He seems like he's just got funny bones, but in reality he is a grafter. Free association and observational comedy aren't his style. Proper jokes with wordplay and punchlines are. Takes him around six weeks to write just one episode of his sitcom.

Presenter1:03

His first ever performance was from on top of a porter cabin, doing impressions for his schoolmates below.

Presenter1:09

But it took him more than ten years to pluck up the courage to step on stage. Leaving school with two O levels and a cheeky grin, he had a stint as Red Rum stable boy, and a bash at being a professional darts player.

Presenter1:21

Having finally found his way into the nation's living rooms, he says of his comedy career.

Presenter1:26

I'm the kind of person that, if I don't think it's hard work, I worry that it's not worth while. I have to feel as if I have struggled a bit. Um, from the outside then, all good comedy I suppose looks effortless. It is genuinely a struggle for you, is it?

Lee Mack1:40

Yeah, I wouldn't say necessary for me specifically. I think it's a struggle for all comics to write. It's just the writing. I always think the writing is God's way of punishing you for having the best job in the world. Right. But it's actually the second best job in the world'cause professional footballer is the best job in the world.

Presenter1:49

Right.

Presenter1:53

That seems like just about the only job you haven't tried.

Lee Mack1:55

Yeah, that's true. And I should point out when when you say I have a go at being a professional darts player, what I used to do is I used to play in my bedroom all the time and then go and play in the local pub darts team. I wasn't very good. And I realized that because in my bedroom there was a bed between me and the board, but in the darts match there wasn't a bed. So my professional career as darts player was cut short because of the inability to bring a bed with you for a darts match.

Presenter2:16

That would be a problem. These hundred and thirty date tours then and the prime time panel shows that we see you on often and uh the sitcom, which of them brings you the most pleasure as a worker?

Lee Mack2:27

Well, you see, if you hadn't said the word worker at the end, I'd have said the panel games particularly would I like to you because we turn up and we just have a bit of fun with it. But because you added the word worker on the end then, I can't say I enjoy that because there's no work involved. So I get more pleasure out of the sitcom because it takes so long to write it that it's a sort of labour and love a bit.

Presenter2:30

Bela

Speaker 22:31

Uh

Presenter2:45

What about the demarcation then between Lee MacKillop, which is who you are in your real life on your driving licence and your passport and you know, forms you fill in for your kids at school, and Lee Mack. Why do you choose to be two different people by name?

Lee Mack2:57

Well it it started off I was actually a mobile DJ many years ago and I wanted to get a job on the cruise liners and I thought Lee McKillop doesn't sound like a name as a DJ on a cruise liner and by coincidence my great granddad was a Variety Hall comedian called Billy Mac and so it just seemed logical that I'll just take his name. So uh I abbreviated it to Lee Mac but my granddad wasn't happy because I kept the K on it and Billy Mac, my great-granddad had just this MAC.

Presenter3:22

Having been a DJ then, is music is it important to you? I mean, obviously we're going to hear your eight important tracks today, but is music central to who you are and what you do?

Lee Mack3:29

Well, I should point out when I a mobile DJ, it's it's only as important as getting them on the dance floor with your bubble machine. So I can't claim I was like scratching and doing I had a bubble machine that you had to get specific type of bubbles. It's obviously very slippy bubbles on the floor. And I it was really expensive this stuff. So I thought, surely you can just use washing up liquid. And I found out as a t waitress crossed the dance floor with a load of glasses in a tray and went flying up in the air that that's why they don't use very liquid in bubble machines.

Presenter3:36

Dude, I've had a book.

Speaker 23:43

Yeah.

Speaker 23:48

Yeah.

Presenter3:48

Mm.

Presenter3:57

Let's have some music, Lee Mac. What are we gonna hear? What's your first one?

Lee Mack3:59

Uh I'm gonna go for That's Entertainment by The Jam because I love the jam anyway. But when I bought a guitar many years ago, this was one of the first songs I learnt to play on it. I should point out I am as bad at the guitar as I am at darts, but there's not many chords in that's entertainment, so it's one of the first ones I could uh strum along to.

Speaker 34:20

A police car and a screaming siren Pneumatic drill and ripped up concrete A baby wailing, a stray dog howling The screech of brakes and lamplight blinking That's entertainment That's entertainment

Presenter4:43

That's the jam and that's entertainment. So, Lee Mac, what makes you laugh?

Lee Mack4:48

Well, it's a cliched answer, but it is my kids. If my kids find something funny on the telly, that immedi immediately becomes my new favourite show.

Presenter4:54

Do you make them laugh?

Lee Mack4:56

Hopefully they would say yes to that answer, but it's always been the thing in my family anyway, that my parents and even my grandparents, that that was the sort of bonding thing, doing gags and messing about. There isn't a photograph of my parents where they haven't got cigarette up the nose or taken their false teeth out.

Presenter5:10

And that's your mum.

Lee Mack5:12

Yeah, he was. Yeah, I knew I did. My mum had no edit button. That's what I loved about her.

Presenter5:13

It really was.

Presenter5:17

And what about to your wife? Is she your audience at home?

Lee Mack5:18

Your audience at home? No, she used to be that. When I first wrote the sitcom I'd I'd I'd say to her, Can you just listen to me read this script act? and she'd listen to it. And then we had another child and then it became, Well, can you just listen to one script a series? Have you got time for that? And then it became we had three children and now it's well can you at least sit down and watch it on the telly when it's broadcast?

Presenter5:31

Mm.

Presenter5:37

Um, I read that you have been diagnosed with ADHD.

Lee Mack5:40

Well, when you say diagnosed, in my book I went to see a psychiatrist and during those interviews she said, meeting you, I think there's a very good possibility that you've got ADHD. My wife's not having it. She said, I haven't got it. I just can't multitask. Or the opposite. I'm multitasking too much, a bigger of a million things. But yeah, I don't know if I've got it or not, but it sort of makes sense now that it's been described to me what it is.

Presenter6:01

One of the most interesting bits about it, I think, because of course it's attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, is that you also, given this condition, would have the ability to what they call hyperfocus, which is there's only one thing going on. Are you like

Lee Mack6:12

Good morning.

Lee Mack6:13

Well, that's the thing,'cause I said to the psychiatrist, Ah, now you've got the wrong one there, I'm afraid,'cause I have to focus very much on one thing for a long period of time. She said, That's a classic symptom. And I felt like whatever I said, you're just gonna say that's a classic symptom, aren't you? But it's it is true apparently. You see that your mind's all over the place or you're completely focussed on one thing. But it's a very beneficial thing in some areas to create ideas, your mind's flitting all over the place. Um, the biggest symptom for me is when I go to the supermarket and I see all the things on the shelf, it feels like they're literally falling on me. I can't handle that amount of information.

Presenter6:14

Because I

Presenter6:44

Let's have some music, Lee. We're on your second. Tell me why you've chosen this and what it is.

Lee Mack6:48

Well, my dad used to love doing impressions, not professionally, just embarrassing me in front of my friends. He'd always pop out and say, I'll just come make a cup of tea, and then he'd come back in his underpants and pretend he was Freddie Mercury and hold a broom as the mic. And he would always do Adam Faith. He'd always sing this song. And it sort of got so ingrained in my head when I wrote Not Going Out, this was the theme music for The Pilot, which when we actually did the series, it never made it. But this was the original theme music. And it just reminds me of my dad coming in and the volume. Dad, leave it out.

Speaker 37:21

What do you want if you don't want money? What do you want if you don't want gold? Say what you want and I'll give it your double and Wish you wanted my love, baby

Speaker 37:35

What do you want if you don't want honey? What do you want if you don't want house? Say what you want and I'll give it you, darling. Wish you want in my love, baby. Well, I'm up.

Presenter7:48

Adam Faison, what do you want? Tell me more, Limac, about your dad. I think he might have been very good company.

Lee Mack7:54

Yeah, he was very good company. That's why they got a pub, I think,'cause me and my brother Darren grew up in a pub and uh I think if you if you want to be a comedian but you sort of haven't taken the move to become one, next best is to run a pub I think. And you've got twenty regulars and you can entertain them and I think that was his attitude. He's a very sociable person, you know, he was

Presenter8:12

The family, though, I mean relatively unusually had a theatrical background. As you say, was it your great-grandfather?

Lee Mack8:17

He was my great-grandfather. But it wasn't until I started doing stand-up that my grand said, Oh, your great-granddad was a variety of and he g she gave me some pictures of him. One was where he was dressed as in a drag act thing or dressed as an old woman and another one where he's dressed as a toff. And then there's another p picture that this only bit of evidence I've got of what he used to actually do on stage, which says, Come and hear Billy Mac sing his amusing song ab about cabbages, carbines and carrots.

Presenter8:18

But it

Presenter8:38

Right. But your father then thought it wasn't for him, but he had this sort of a bullion personality that liked a bit of attention.

Lee Mack8:45

Yeah. I was very proud of the fact that when I was about nineteen or twenty I knew that if I brought my mates to go and see me dad, he would be more like them than a dad. So he was always a bit more like a degenerate older brother.

Presenter8:57

Please.

Lee Mack8:58

And I already had one of them, so I didn't need another.

Presenter9:00

Yes, I do you know what? That's a great line, and it is really funny, but it's also true that you you don't really need your parents to be your friends,'cause you have friends and you have siblings. Were there times when you wished he was a bit more like a dad?

Lee Mack9:06

Yeah.

Lee Mack9:10

I suppose so. I mean, my mum and dad split when I was quite young, so th I was only sort of eleven or twelve when he sort of left home, so I went to visit him regularly over the years from that age.

Presenter9:18

You were on holiday when they actually physically broke up.

Lee Mack9:21

Yes, uh there w there used to be a thing called Pontinental, which was Pontin's, on the continent.

Presenter9:26

Is that true though?

Lee Mack9:26

It really was. And it was seen as the slightly upmarket Pontons. So we thought, Yeah, we'll do that. We own a pub. Yeah, we've got a bit of money. We'll go Pontinental now And uh four of us went and three of us came back because when we were out there my dad, I think the pressures of the the pub and also their own personal problems just came to a head at that point and he on the last night he just he went off. He says, I I can't handle it so he went.

Lee Mack9:51

As is always the case in our family, it would have been quite comical. I know it sounds terrible, but my mum said, Your dad's had a few drinks and he's probably lying by the pool. Go and find him. We've got to get on the coach in a minute. So we had to go and look for him. And then it became like, He's not by the pool. Well, have a look on the beach. He's not on the beach. So we had to fly back without him, but there was a real sense of, Oh, he'll get on the next plane, but no, he's he stayed away.

Presenter10:10

And was there a degree of chaos in the house and was it a household where things were a bit chaotic?

Lee Mack10:12

Bring it.

Lee Mack10:14

Oh, totally. Yeah, we had a we had quite a a wild upbringing looking back. My mum and dad let us do things I would never dream of letting my kids do.

Presenter10:20

Play one.

Lee Mack10:21

Well, in the old days, pubs used to close in the afternoon at at like two or three o'clock, didn't they? And then open up again at six. But some of the regulars were allowed to sort of stay around as a an afternoon lock in. And they would do seances and things.

Presenter10:24

Yeah.

Speaker 310:25

Uh

Presenter10:25

Yeah.

Lee Mack10:32

But yeah, it was just that slightly chaotic, drunken seventies way of being. Didn't I just thought everyone was brought up. I thought everyone in the world was having lock-ins and doing seances.

Presenter10:40

Let's uh have some music now, Vima.

Lee Mack10:42

Yes, now this is my f the first single I ever bought. So I'll have been about thirteen and uh it was 79p from Woolworths. I remember saving up in the days when you saved up for things. And I bought the single and it went immediately out of my hand and flew under the space invading machine. And the woman said we have to buy another one. I said well I haven't left the shop yet. And I remember that thing about you know if you if you shoplift you can't be accused of shoplift till you've left the shop. I'm not this isn't a tip. I'm not giving advice to the kids if they're listening. So I quoted that. I said so if that's the case then surely if I've not left the shop I've not bought it.

Presenter10:44

Yeah.

Presenter10:47

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 210:52

For things.

Speaker 211:09

I'm not this isn't

Lee Mack11:18

She just looked at me blankly, said, Do you want to buy another one or not? And so in the end I did. I had to go home, I had to save up again and buy this single again. So uh yeah, it's it's Adam and the Ants. Now the first thing was Stand and Deliver, but even I haven't got the confidence to go on Desert Island Discs and play Stand and Deliver as one of my top eight songs. So instead I'm gonna play the the much cooler Punky B-side, Beat My Guest.

Speaker 311:36

What time are you panicking with anything?

Speaker 311:39

Me, beep.

Speaker 311:42

Yeah, it's a choice and I have so brave. Yeah, be please give me a go

Speaker 311:48

Oh, yo, oh

Speaker 311:51

Oh, you know, I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 311:58

There's so much happiness behind me still. Beat me, feed me.

Speaker 312:04

I pray I'm fifty for ten thousand, yeah

Speaker 312:10

Yeah.

Presenter12:12

Adam and the Ants and Beat My Guest. So, Lee Mac, your parents broke up and that meant that you moved back to Southport, having had sort of lots of different homes when your parents had lots of different pubs. Um do you think that made an impression on you, moving around so much?

Lee Mack12:25

Oh, without a doubt. I worked out, I think, by the age of eighteen, I'd lived in sixteen different houses.

Presenter12:31

Yeah.

Lee Mack12:31

We were moving all the time.

Presenter12:33

And so changing schools a lot as well. Some people do find that a problem, and other people just sort of.

Lee Mack12:35

Do fine.

Presenter12:37

Yeah.

Lee Mack12:37

Yeah, well I think that was probably my way into comedy really because I went to another school and I had a very strong Lancastrian accent and in Southport it's a very soft accent in terms of it's not a strong Lancashire accent. And they used to say this, you sound like Bobby Ball from Cannon and Ball. So trying to ingratiate myself with my new friends I thought well I'll play on that and do impressions of Bobby Ball so that's what I did. I had all the catchphrases rock on Tommy, you've got me skin. I was even gonna get a permanent grow moustache but my dad genuinely had got that so I thought don't look too much like your dad at that age do you plus I couldn't grow a moustache at thirty.

Presenter13:05

Yeah.

Presenter13:06

What was making you laugh at Thirteen apart from Cannonball? The young ones and that's

Lee Mack13:10

The Young Ones and Saturday Night Live and the comic strip, all the stuff that it was the sort of comedy equivalent of punk, and I was fascinated by it. I thought it was absolutely amazing.

Presenter13:14

Bolt.

Presenter13:20

What about seventies comedy though? I mean, were you watching things like Rising Damp? Were you watching Morecambe and Wise and Samaroni's Porridge?

Lee Mack13:25

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I my appreciation of all that c kind of stuff I think has come later on though. I mean I remember liking them, but I didn't it wasn't a life changing thing for me. I didn't watch that and go, One day I want to be a comedian. It wasn't any of that. It wasn't until nineteen eighty and

Presenter13:35

It was then.

Lee Mack13:37

An alternative comedy started that that got me interested in thinking, I would like to do this one day.

Presenter13:42

Um, being a jockey then, were you a keen rider?

Lee Mack13:45

Not at all. I was thrown out of college at sixteen because I'd failed on my O levels and then I went back to resit my O levels and lasted like six weeks until I realised I was still just a kid who was messing about at school. So I left and I went home thinking, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? And I put the telly on as I was thinking it and horse racing was on. And I'd had a mild interest in in it because my granddad liked to bet. I used to watch the Grand National. But that was it. But I thought, well, I could just turn up at 16, right, if I'm small and skinny, which I was.

Presenter14:12

Had you had you even been on a horse?

Lee Mack14:12

I do I

Lee Mack14:13

Never. I'd been on like Blackpool Beach on a donkey, and I think I'd been on pony trekking rides in Spain, but I'd not had any horse history whatsoever. But by coincidence, in my hometown, they trained Red Rum, and he was still alive. So I thought, I'll do that then. So, having turned the telly on to phoning up the stables, was probably about 60 seconds. And I said, Yeah, I'm thinking of becoming a jockey. Do you need anyone?

Speaker 214:25

Mm.

Presenter14:35

So did you actually ride horses at the stables as well as mucking out?

Lee Mack14:39

Well funny enough the first horse I ever rode was red rum. He'd retired and he was he was this you know he'd go around he'd open betting shops and supermarkets and things and my mate said to me at the time he was working there he said right it's about time you sat on a horse I said all right so I jumped on a horse and he said you know who that is don't you and I hadn't sort of they all looked the same to me he went that's red rum I went oh so I thought that's amazing first horse ever rode was red rum I wish I'd got a photo that's the only thing I should have done was got the photo so my job was to occasionally take them for walks so I'd take him for a walk around the roads and took him to my grand's house and knocked on the door went you're not going to believe who this is she went who I went it's red rum she went I don't care who it is get him off my lawn no interest at all just get him off my lawn

Lee Mack15:19

I thought it should be like, It's Red Rotten. Didn't couldn't kill us. Did you enjoy it? I hated it. I don't know why. I realized within an hour of being there that I was terrified of horses. But I thought, Well, what what am I gonna do if I don't do this? This is this is my new career, isn't it? I thought I'll l I'll learn to like them. But as soon as they sat me on a horse, I was like, These are quite high up and

Lee Mack15:37

You know, race horses are really big. You know, it's terrifying. Absolutely terrifying.

Presenter15:42

Let's have some music, Leemac. We're on your uh fourth.

Lee Mack15:45

Yes, now when I was a kid, because I've got a slightly obsessive nature, my mate introduced me to Queen, the band, not the monarch. And I liked the album he played me. So I thought, right, well, I'll buy a record player. So I bought the album and the record player. So I now own one album and one record player. And thought, well, I'll go and buy another album now. I thought, well, don't mess with the system. You like that? Buy another Queen album. And in the end, I had about 12 or 13 Queen albums, but nothing else. So it would feel right that I have to choose one of my 13 Queen albums from all those years ago. And also, I suppose, given that the nature of sitcom writing, I'm under pressure. Is that right to do an album party? Yeah, so that's why I chose this one.

Presenter16:21

Yeah.

Speaker 316:25

I'm burning.

Speaker 316:27

I'm bothered.

Speaker 316:30

Bye, babe, bad.

Speaker 316:33

Let's uh

Speaker 316:35

Pushing down on me, pressing down on you, no man has fallen.

Speaker 316:41

Under breath of war

Speaker 316:43

Where's your feeling down to family and two?

Speaker 316:48

But speech of streets

Lee Mack16:54

We got it.

Presenter16:57

That was Queen with David Bowie and Under Pressure. So, Lee Mac, you did go on at one point, among the variety of pretty unusual jobs that you had, to be a Pontin's blue coat. Did that feel like it was on the way to something that might approximate to showbiz?

Lee Mack17:11

Well, people have said to me, Oh, so that was your way in, was it you became a blue coat? Couldn't be further from the truth. The decision to become a jockey was about 60 seconds. The decision to become a blue coat was even quicker. I was working in a bingo hall. There was a guy there that decided to get an entertainment agency going. I just popped in to see how he was getting on into his office. He was on the phone, chat, chat, chat. He put the phone to and said to me, Do you want to be a blue coat at Pontin's? I went, Yeah, alright. And that was it. I went for the interview. I thought, That sounds fun. I'll just do that. What were your duties? Well, my friend also joined me, Saul. We were the ones that couldn't perform.

Speaker 217:33

What's it?

Presenter17:42

You weren't allowed to or you weren't able to.

Lee Mack17:44

Do anything. We had no skills. These kids were all seventeen, eighteen. They were dancers, singers, sort of showbis, wannabes. And me and my mate, I'd gone to be the sports organiser. His speciality was to dance with old people. And the g the rest were also on the Friday Night Blue Coats show, they'd all perform. And me and my mate had to stand at the back and hold a big American flag and wave it,'cause that's the only skill we had. And then the flags didn't turn up, so we had to wave. It was very indignified. Did you?

Speaker 217:53

Right.

Lee Mack18:09

Watch them

Presenter18:09

See

Lee Mack18:09

I could do better than that. I mean, I'd obviously at this point, this was 1988, so I'd my the alternative comedy revolution had happened. And so.

Presenter18:09

Uh

Lee Mack18:17

It did feel a little bit dated at the time, what they were doing. And it was my first go at stand-up comedy because the host of the night, the entertainment manager, said, I don't want to run tonight's show. Will you host it? And I'd done a bit of mic work. It's a blue coat. I'd done a bit of hello, welcome to the Knobbly Knees competition type thing. But I'd never actually done comedy. And so I thought, right, I'll give it a crack. I've always wanted to do it, but I didn't have any material. So I did what all the other comics did at Pontians and just did a bit of their act. You know, they're all shirning it round and.

Lee Mack18:44

And I can't tell the story on this lovely radio show, but it involved me swearing at the audience and being sacked. Um, so I was on the next train back up north. But they gave me my job back, but I had to go to Morecambe.

Presenter18:53

You have got a touch of the Eric Morecambe's about you, I think. Have I?

Lee Mack18:56

Have I? I think so. I've always thought you'd have a touch of the early wisest, so we make a good couple.

Presenter18:56

I've always thought you'd have a touch of the

Presenter19:00

What the

Presenter19:01

Let's have some music.

Lee Mack19:03

Okay, so the next one is Joy Division. I've always been a bit obsessed with Ian Curtis. But the reason I've chosen this particular song, Atmosphere, is because I've trained for the Marathon a couple of years ago, and I used to listen to this song a lot when I was training for the Marathon, which is the most unrunning-friendly song you could get. It's slow and it's miserable. But to me, that was part of the struggle. I thought, if I'm having a miserable time when I'm training for the running, it's almost romanticised the effort. Do you see what I mean?

Speaker 319:28

I did

Speaker 319:32

Inside alone

Speaker 319:36

Don't walk away

Speaker 319:41

In silence.

Speaker 319:45

See the day

Speaker 319:49

Always dangerous.

Speaker 319:53

And the first one

Speaker 319:56

Life rebuilding

Presenter20:01

Walk away.

Presenter20:03

Joy Division and Atmosphere. So do you say you were training for for the marathon when you listened to this? Did you actually you ran the marathon then?

Lee Mack20:09

No, no, I didn't. I got to about thirteen or fourteen miles in the training and I got severe pain in my leg and I went to see uh the doctor and he said, You can't run because your legs are different lengths. So I had to end my marathon career there and I have to say it was one of the greatest bits of news I'd ever been given because now I had the get out clause. I can't run the marathon. I was hating it. It's just that someone I'd set myself

Presenter20:28

So there came a time then, Leemac, where you decided you wanted to move to London.

Lee Mack20:34

Yes. Well, I just visited and I was walking around with a mate, just split with my girlfriend at the time and just not knowing what I was doing in my life and I just wandered into the comedy store, not really knowing what it was. I recognised a few faces on the wall from Friday Night Live and stuff, but I didn't know what what it was about.

Presenter20:35

Well that

Lee Mack20:49

And it really was like a, for want of a better phrase, it was a life-changing moment. I thought, this is incredible, I want to do this. But I was convinced to get up on stage and be that funny, you have to be.

Speaker 220:53

Normal situation.

Lee Mack21:00

uh have no insecurities, you have to have you have to know everything about life. They were almost like mythological creatures in my head. I thought, I want to be like those kind of people. So what I'll do is I'll travel the world and become worldly wise. Yes. So I did. I well, I got as far as Australia for a year.

Speaker 221:08

So what'll

Speaker 221:11

Yes.

Lee Mack21:14

I thought, right, I've had enough of this travelling the world, Malarkey. I'll go back home and I'll do stand-up comedy. But I still didn't have the guts to do it, so I thought university is the nearest thing to um uh a world of performing. If I can do a some sort of drama or film or television degree, which is what I did, drama, film and T V that was the nearest thing on the list to stand up comedy.

Presenter21:35

I can't imagine doing your drama degree at Brunel University that you did much stand up. Were you in a unitard pretending to be a train?

Lee Mack21:41

There was a little bit of dressing in black and rubbing walls. But actually Brunel massively helped me because what they did was they said, Do what you want. If you want to run a comedy club at the university, we'll count it towards your degree. So I did a module in stand-up comedy. I ran it. I booked the acts, put my own money into it, I put the posters on the wall and brought in people from the circuit to perform. And then I was the MC.

Presenter22:01

It was also very important because it was the time that you met the woman who would go on to become your wife. When did you tell Tara that you wanted to be a st-

Lee Mack22:08

I'd never told anybody really. I'd kept this, it was like a dirty little secret I never told anyone about. And I was plucking up the courage. We we got together and I thought I've got to tell this person. So I said, Look, the thing is, I want to be a stand-up comedian. She went, Oh, yeah, good idea, you should do that. So very casually, didn't think anything of it. I'd spent ten years harbouring the'cause it sounds silly now though, but uh honestly in the early nineties, no one wanted to be a comedian. There wasn't that many comics around. But at the time it was a bit nerve-wracking in case she went, You can't do that, you're not funny.

Presenter22:36

Let's have some music.

Lee Mack22:37

As you said earlier, I did a hundred and thirty night tour and I don't know what it is, maybe it's to do with this A D H D. But after every gig I listened to this song.

Presenter22:47

Every gig.

Lee Mack22:47

Every night, I have to wear the same suit on stage. I should point out I wear a different shirt because they get quite sweaty. But I don't like to think. So, first night, the road manager said, What would you like to dinner? And I said, I'll have spaghetti bolognese. So, the next night he said, What do you want for dinner? I thought, Well, that worked, so I'll have that again. And then the third night, I thought, This show's going well, I don't break it, I'll have the spaghetti bolognese. So, I had spaghetti bolognese every night for 130 nights on tour. I'd wear the same suit, and when I come off stage, I'd always listen to the same song as the sort of I'm winding down after the gig music. I like things to be exactly the same. Very rock and roll, isn't it? Comedy spagball on the same song every

Speaker 323:25

Are you waking for the play?

Speaker 323:30

That's okay.

Speaker 323:33

Word initial.

Speaker 323:39

Are you waking for the grey?

Speaker 323:44

That's okay.

Speaker 323:47

Weren't sure?

Speaker 323:53

We're getting away with it all, missed up Getting away with it all, missed up

Presenter24:02

That's the lily.

Presenter24:04

That was James and getting away with it all. So, Lee Mac, it must of course be the case that it is your uh significant presence on T V now that drives the people who buy the tickets to come see you when you do these big stand-up tours. Do you think people are ever surprised that the person that they see on television who is a more sort of gentle family viewing character can really get pretty etchy?

Lee Mack24:21

Um fair.

Lee Mack24:24

I get a bit worried about it, that's the truth. I mean, I started off as a stand-up comedian and still see myself as one. And then I had a little side step into a sitcom panel games where obviously the nature of T V is you tone it down or you don't tone it down but you're edited in a way that looks like you've toned it down. Then you go back out on tour and you look down and you suddenly see a man and a wife and their two children sat in the front row and you go, You haven't seen me do live stuff before, have and you get worried that they don't know what to expect. And so I always make it absolutely clear on the posters, you know, this there will be some bad language and if you don't want to come I understand so please keep away.

Speaker 224:38

It's a

Presenter24:56

And what about the thorny issue of women in comedy? You do all these panel shows and the the current mood right now is that well why are there not more women on panel shows? You know, we turn on our televisions and there are six guys sitting there, and sometimes

Lee Mack25:06

Yeah.

Presenter25:09

There are five guys and a woman. Sometimes, not very often, there are

Lee Mack25:13

Two women. You're right. Well, I'm glad you asked this question because I actually joined my drama, film and television degree. I did a thesis on women in comedy. And for me, what I think is the problem isn't that there's not enough women in panel games. The problem is there's not enough women in comedy in general. If 20% of comedians out there are female, then it makes sense that 20% of people on panel games are female. And the conclusion that my thesis, and this is people who've only quoted in other scientific reports on it, is that when men sit around together and talk, they're very competitive. One person will tell an anecdote, then the next person will try and top that with another anecdote. When you get six women in a room together, they share a lot more. They'll be far more interested in what the other person has to say. So the conversation is broken up a lot more and it's more interactive and less about individually showing off. So obviously when you start doing stand-up, if you've been trained in showing off because you're a bloke, it's going to be more conducive to your style of humour. So it's actually a compliment, I think, to women that there aren't as many female stand-ups because they're far more interested in what each other has to say than standing there on their own and showing off. But it does mean there's probably less of them starting in the first place.

Presenter26:18

Do you think it might also I mean, obviously, we know women can be funny. Women have been funny since Lucille Ball on telly and onwards. Do you think it's maybe got something to do with the construct of a panel show that allows men to do what they do and feel comfortable and doesn't allow women to go on and be funny and do what they do and feel comfortable?

Lee Mack26:24

And one

Lee Mack26:34

It depends on the panel game. I think that if a panel game is based around doing your bit of material, doing your stick, then yeah, it's more conducive to blokes who like showing off. If it's about interacting, which I hope that we do on Would I Lie to you because it's a game, then it's more about actually talking to the person, listening to what they have to say and less about you individually doing your bit of material. But then you get asked the question, why is there more men on Would I Lie to you? And I'd have to give you my producer's email address. So can we move on before I get into trouble?

Speaker 226:48

Yeah.

Presenter27:02

Let's have some music. Okay, we are on your uh seventh disc of the morning, Limac. What are we gonna hear?

Lee Mack27:03

Okay, we

Lee Mack27:06

Now I'm gonna do something maverick for this show. I've chosen a song that I I really don't like. This song is uh Now That We Found Love by Third World, and I used to like it, but the reason I've chosen it is because

Lee Mack27:18

We've had three children and for some reason this is the song that gets my children asleep when they're young and they're babies. So this song has been played in my car or in my house sometimes up to 30 times a day for all three kids and I'm now sick to death of this song. I can't tell you how sick to death I am. But my theory was if I'm on a desert island on my own then I'd miss my kids and this would remind me of the kids. So I will love it again when I'm on the island but for now I can't stand it.

Speaker 227:47

How bad we found the border we gone.

Speaker 227:55

Now that we found love, what are we gonna do?

Speaker 328:02

Make that you shook, make that it shook, make that it shook, make that you shook, make that it shook, shake, shook, shake. All over the place I say. Come on, baby, when the music's playing, I wanna see you dance, dance, dance. Come on, baby, sell me.

Presenter28:21

That was third world and now that we've found love. Could you mentally have a little baby on your shoulder?

Lee Mack28:23

I can

Lee Mack28:25

I can almost smell the babysick.

Presenter28:28

Um, tell me about your parents then. Your parents now are both passed away. Did did they live to see any of your success as a stand-up?

Lee Mack28:32

Yeah.

Lee Mack28:35

Yeah, they both lived long enough so that I was I'd already started doing a bit of telly. Not much, but a little bit, so they were they were aware that, you know, I was gonna make some money out of it, so at least I had a job.

Presenter28:46

And y your father, who we know, as you say, sort of maybe somewhere deep inside had something of the performer in him.

Lee Mack28:52

In him? Oh, yeah. I mean, he would absolutely love it. He lived longer than my mum, so he saw even more of my telework. Did he come along?

Presenter28:57

Did he come along and watch?

Lee Mack28:59

Oh god, no, I couldn't uh I'd be too like I say, that's that would be too odd, having your family there. I've had it happen. It's so stressful. The extra pressure of having family members in there, because they know Lee McKillop rather than Lee Max, you know, that's it's it feels like the wrong relationship for me. So that's why they have to sit right at the back. And if I know anyone in the front row, oh forget it. Hate it.

Presenter29:20

What happens? Do you lose your bottle?

Lee Mack29:22

It's not that I lose my bottle. I just I've been when I said game over, don't get me wrong, if you come to one of my tour dates and someone I know is in the front row, I won't just go forget it and walk off stair. But I don't know why, I just have two versions of of my life. I have the version where I'm at home and I'm the normal person, then I have the version that works in telly and does stand up tours and so

Presenter29:25

And someone I know is in the front row.

Lee Mack29:38

That I don't like the crossover of those two things. I like to keep them separate.

Presenter29:42

No audience, of course, on the Desert Island. How do you feel about being on your own?

Presenter29:46

Yeah.

Lee Mack29:47

How do I feel about being on your own? Um, I think I think I like being on my own. I've got my wife and children always around me, so what does that feel like? Well, you've got three kids, the feeling of being on your own just I forgot that memory. How does that

Presenter29:56

Yeah.

Lee Mack29:57

What

Presenter29:57

And are you y your comedy persona is that of the sort of mild buffoon on this island? Would you be able to lash up a shelter and catch

Lee Mack30:04

In my first flat, I built a pair of shutters and that really impressed the wife. Pair of proper shutters on the window. Did you? And then I went I drove past the house recently, they'd taken them down. Yeah. I'm I'm quite practical. I've built a shed. Well, I g I paid a man to build a shed, but I ordered it from eBay. I think wanting a shed means you're practical, right?

Presenter30:16

Please.

Speaker 230:16

But

Presenter30:22

Not really.

Lee Mack30:23

Time for you.

Presenter30:23

Time for your final piece of music, then. Tell me about this.

Lee Mack30:26

Well, this was supposed to be The House Martins, because the album that's followed me around all my life is London Nil Hull Four by The House Martins. And as I was working out which track, my wife said, Which song are you playing for me?

Lee Mack30:37

And in the panic I said, Van Morrison, um, our wedding song love.

Lee Mack30:42

So uh so this is the song that because my wife has definitely given me a better taste in music since I met I would never admit that to her face but sitting on her on the radio I'll say it. She's introduced me to Van Morris and I didn't really know much about him before we we got together. I made our wedding video, I edited it and I put this on because it's my wife's uh one of my wife's favourite songs. So this is for Tyra.

Speaker 331:03

If I ventured in the slipstream

Speaker 331:08

Between the viaducts of your dreams

Speaker 331:13

Were mobile steerings cracked?

Speaker 331:17

And the dead send the back road star

Speaker 331:22

Could you find me?

Speaker 331:27

Or would you kiss on my eyes?

Speaker 331:32

To lay it down.

Speaker 331:35

Silence is aching to be born again.

Presenter31:42

Van Morrison and Astral Weeks. So I'm going to give you the books now, Leemac. I give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take another book to the island. What else would you like to take?

Lee Mack31:52

Uh well I'm going to take A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, because I haven't read it, so I figure the number one rule is take a book you haven't read. And my theory is you'd be lying around all day thinking, Well, I don't know how I ended up here.

Presenter31:55

Right.

Lee Mack32:03

And it'll start making you think, well, how do we any of us end up here? But I'm glad you get the Bible because I would read the Bible. I think it's quite odd that people like myself in their 40s, quite happy to dismiss the Bible, but I've never read it. I always think if an alien came down, and you were the only person they met, and they said, What's life about? What's earth about? How tell us everything? And you said, Well, there's a book here that purports to tell you everything. Some people believe it to be true, some people not believe it true. Wow, what's it like? And you go, I don't know, I haven't read it.

Lee Mack32:29

It'd be an odd thing, wouldn't it? So at the very least read it. So I could read that and then I could read Stephen Hawkins. I'd have hours to make my decision, then.

Presenter32:35

And the Shakespeare as well.

Lee Mack32:36

You're allowed a luxury too. Uh well, I wanna go for coffee. I'm very addicted to coffee. Uh but my wife said you can't take coffee because Kirstie won't let you have a coffee and a plunger. No, I would. Oh, yeah. And milk? Yes. And a fridge to put the milk in?

Presenter32:45

No, I would. Oh, yeah.

Presenter32:49

Yeah.

Lee Mack32:49

It's gonna take the whole kitchen. Because the juice is quite handy as well with all that fruit.

Presenter32:51

It was the dude.

Presenter32:53

No, I will give you the accoutrements to make a nice coffee.

Lee Mack32:55

Nice coffee every morning. That will do me. So uh yeah, so I'll I'll take coffee, lots of milk, the little the machine that comes with it, the fridge to put the milk in, teaspoon, I'm not using my finger. Pushing it now.

Presenter33:01

Yeah.

Presenter33:05

Pushing it now.

Presenter33:06

Um, and if you had to save just one track from the eight, which one would you save?

Lee Mack33:11

Van Morrison I love my wife very much.

Presenter33:13

It's yours, Leemac. Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert islanders.

Lee Mack33:16

Thank you for having me.

Presenter33:58

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.