Alexandra Shulman

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the editor of Vogue, Alexander Shulman. Think of a fashion-forward deadpan stick-thin couture-clad style, Maven.

Presenter0:43

And then think again. In spite of being in charge of our leading style Bible for more than twenty years, she has built her reputation on being well, normal. She thinks designers cut clothes too small. She refuses to let superstars have photo and copy approval. Indeed, when she was first appointed editor, she'd never even been on a fashion shoot. Yet during her tenure, Vogue's circulation has increased. Her first job as editor was with the men's magazine GQ, and she's had spells at Tatler, the Sunday Telegraph, and writing a weekly column for the Daily Mail. She says Vogue is not my personal taste, really. I think of it more as a kind of newspaper, reporting on what's out there. So, Alexander Shulman, if style is a simple way of saying complicated things, what are you saying to me today with what you're wearing?

Alexandra Shulman1:32

Well, I've got a rather kind of vivid sort of lime greeny top which is saying hey it's sunshine out there and well I'm quite a kind of smartly dressed woman'cause I'm wearing a kind of knee length skirt and I've got a bit of a kind of modern heel rather than too much of a kind of kitten heely look on so I've got all kinds of messages in my clothes.

Presenter1:52

And do you subscribe to that notion that actually when particularly a woman getting dressed in the morning, but I suppose a man too, is sending subtle signals to people who understand the language about who she is and what she stands for?

Alexandra Shulman2:03

Oh, completely. I mean, I had a lot of thinking about what I was going to wear today, even though I'm on the radio. I think that people make very conscious decisions about the way they want to portray themselves. And even if that's to say I don't care about my clothes, you're still saying something.

Presenter2:21

When you came in to day you saw you were full of joy. Are you looking forward to this?

Alexandra Shulman2:24

Yeah, I'm so excited. I've been waiting fifty-five years for this.

Presenter2:26

Well, your time has come. I mentioned in the introduction that you upped the circulation. It is interesting to note, though, that the circulation is relatively small. It's around about 200,000 copies, is it, a month that you're running. The money that you make is made on advertising.

Alexandra Shulman2:37

Month 2005.

Presenter2:41

What do you tell your advertisers the typical reader is like?

Alexandra Shulman2:45

Well, I think one of the great things about Vogue and a lovely aspect of editing it is there isn't a typical reader. And we are kind of an industry newsletter. We're a magazine that a girl of fourteen will buy and a woman of eighty will buy who want to feel that they know what's in fashion, that they know what contemporary style is. And it's a magazine that I think has survived for its 97 years because of that kind of breadth of appeal.

Presenter3:19

What do you do to relax when you're not looking at photographs, deciding about graphics, having conversations about advertising? When you're at home, what do you do?

Alexandra Shulman3:27

Well, I find relaxing incredibly easy. I run, I spend a lot of time with friends, cooking for them or going out with them. I read a lot, play a lot of music, I can compartmentalise and I'm able to think I'm not going to think about this problem until 8 o'clock in the morning and then I will give it my total attention.

Presenter3:53

What a useful skill. We're going to turn to the music, Alexandra Schulman. Tell me about your first disc today. What is it, and why have you decided to put it on your list?

Alexandra Shulman4:01

Well, I think anybody of my generation really has to have a David Bowie going with them to any desert island and drive in Saturday.

Alexandra Shulman4:11

Reminds me really of being about 15 and just starting to know boys in London and it was kind of the soundtrack really to that summer.

Speaker 44:20

It was always funny, and strong ass to stay. She'd sigh like Twinkle Wonder Kid, and turn her face away.

Speaker 44:33

She's uncertain if she likes him, but she knows she really loves him. It's a crash course for the Ravers. It's a drive in Saturday.

Presenter4:57

That was David Bowie and Drive and Saturday. So let's find out a little bit, Alexandra Shulman, about the atmosphere of working in a place like Vogue, indeed being in charge. We think we know it from the Devil Wears Prada. I imagine that is nothing like your day to day working life at the office. What what is the atmosphere like?

Alexandra Shulman5:13

Well, it's hard if you're if you're running the show, you don't really know what the atmosphere is like, you have to talk to the interns really. But I think on the whole, given that I do talk to them.

Presenter5:19

I think

Alexandra Shulman5:22

It's quite a collaborative, friendly atmosphere. Having said that, it's very intense. Most of the people that I've hired there are really talented and you don't get really talented people all working together without quite a lot of, in quotes, creative tension. So there's a lot of voices, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of kind of debate about everything.

Speaker 45:41

Yeah.

Presenter5:41

Yeah.

Presenter5:48

And is it full of sort of racks of couture that's been flown in from Milan and shoes from Jimmy Chu and peop do people all look rather sort of racks, that's for sure.

Alexandra Shulman5:55

Well there's a lot of racks, that's for sure. There's a lot of racks everywhere. Too many racks. I'm not enough space. But yeah, you know, they're incredible clothes, bags, jewelry. The girls are mainly girls working there, women. They do look pretty fantastic, I have to say. They've all got great style and taste.

Presenter6:15

And there really is, is there a dressing up cupboard where if somebody's going to a fancy party they can go into and say, I will have that Hermeea's bag and oh, look, there's a little Chanel jacket.

Alexandra Shulman6:22

It's back in the

Alexandra Shulman6:23

Delicious. No, no, no, there's no dressing. Is there not? No, absolutely not. Nobody's allowed to borrow stuff off those rails. How very disappointing.

Presenter6:30

Of course, we know that as much as it is very glossy on the outside the fashion industry, it is also plagued by what seems like a rather tarnished underbelly at times. You know, sweatshops being used to supply the great big chains on our high streets, models we occasionally read dying from anorexia, rumours that drug taking is rife. What do you make of that dark underbelly?

Alexandra Shulman7:00

I think everybody is really very aware of trying to look at these issues and to improve the situation. I mean it's something that I don't see. I've never been on a shoot and seen millions of drugs or indeed any drugs there actually. I'm not even drinking a glass of wine for heaven's sake. But I also think that fashion is a very easy target because as soon as somebody wants to talk about eating disorders, what will they do but put a picture of a model on a catwalk show on their front page? Because a beautiful girl in fashion sells papers.

Presenter7:32

that you mentioned anorexia because of course you're constantly asked about it, but it is relevant in so far as the images that young women are fed are relevant to their sense of self, to their mood about their self, to their idea of what it is they're aspiring to.

Alexandra Shulman7:47

Well, it's interesting you should bring that up because I'm literally at the moment working on a short film that we're going to send out to schools to make young women understand that we are creating a wonderful imaginative construct but we are not photographing reality and it's six hours of hair and makeup, thirty thousand pounds worth of lighting and styling and photography and post-production work that turns her into this image. I mean the issue comes if some people, vulnerable people, can't look at those pictures and then see it as that, but try and judge themselves. That that is a problem.

Presenter8:34

Let's have some more music, Alex. Um we're on your second. Tell us about this choice.

Alexandra Shulman8:38

Bongo Bong by Manu Chao. I first heard on holiday when my son was young and just the second we heard it we were like dancing up and down and it's always been a song that I've associated with Sam who is my most precious thing and I'm very very pleased that he still likes it now even though he's a totally cool and very music savvy 18 year old.

Speaker 49:04

Hear me when I come, baby

Speaker 49:11

Hear me when I come They say that I'm a clown making too much dirty sound They say there is no place for little monkey in this town Nobody like to be in my place instead of me cause nobody go crazy when I'm banging on my boogie I'm the key mother

Speaker 49:30

Hit me when I come, baby.

Presenter9:37

That was Bongo Bong by Manu Chow. So, Alexander Shulman, you were born at the end of the fifties, 1958, and you lived in London's Eton Square. Sounds quite posh, was it quite posh?

Alexandra Shulman9:48

Eton Square was and is very posh. Uh the flat we lived in was a two bedroom flat which my parents kind of carved up in order to have three children and a living nanny. It's all to do with my father. My dad was Canadian. He came over as a member of the Canadian Intelligence in the War.

Alexandra Shulman10:07

and never really went back to Canada, and he arrived somewhere in the centre of London.

Alexandra Shulman10:12

And basically once he saw Eton Square, that was where he wanted to be and where he insisted on staying. And it mattered very much to him. He was a theatre critic, and it meant that it was very easy for him to get to the West End every night.

Presenter10:28

And you said he was a theatre critic. He was the theatre critic. He was Milton Shulman, who wrote for very many years for the Evening Standard. Um he was seven minutes from the West End. Did the West End come to you? Did you have all sorts of glamorous people coming through the door?

Alexandra Shulman10:42

Yeah.

Presenter10:42

No, we didn't have

Alexandra Shulman10:43

Glamorous people coming through the door. Both my parents worked extremely hard. You know, my mother was one of the first women ever to work in Fleet Street, worked full-time and was a mum. My father worked full-time and he'd go to Alvino's in Fleet Street and then he'd go out to the theatre and then he'd have to come home at 10 o'clock, have something to eat, and he would file overnight. Did he write it in the newsroom or did he come and write it in the middle of it? No, he came home. So you would hear that.

Presenter11:12

So he came home. So you would hear that, would you, on the typewriter in the small flat?

Alexandra Shulman11:15

Oh, I well, we were brought up to the soundtrack of the typewriters. Both my mum and my dad were always on typewriters.

Presenter11:22

Yeah.

Alexandra Shulman11:23

Yeah.

Presenter11:23

And your mother is Drusilla Bafus. Um, as you were growing up, did you even notice that mummy went out to work and that was different from other girls' mummies, or was it just that was just life?

Alexandra Shulman11:33

Oh, I completely noticed that my mum went out to work and not only did I notice, but I actually said to her endlessly, which I now see must have been so annoying. You know, I'd always say, I can't understand why you've created this life for yourself that's sort of so difficult. You know, you get up in the morning, you go out and you get food, then you come back, then you rush off to work, and then you come back, and then you do more work, and then you cook us dinner. You know, why do you do it? And now, of course, I do exactly the same thing.

Presenter12:02

What did she say to you when you said that as a little girl?

Alexandra Shulman12:04

She kind of said, well, it's just the way it is. For instance, I forget which one of us it was after, but literally two days after she'd given birth, she was typing an article in her hospital bed on a typewriter. And she absolutely felt, you know, you couldn't expect to keep your job if you kind of made a fuss about having had a baby. But I would say that she would be the first person to say that not for an instant would she have not wanted to be a working woman.

Presenter12:31

That's a

Alexandra Shulman12:31

That's the

Presenter12:31

For music.

Alexandra Shulman12:32

It's

Presenter12:32

Two.

Alexandra Shulman12:32

Your third One

Presenter12:33

Tell us about this. Yeah.

Alexandra Shulman12:34

Chips With Everything by Barbara Kay

Alexandra Shulman12:38

We had a gramophone in the sitting room at home, and my sister and I.

Alexandra Shulman12:45

used to play it all the time and Nicky and I are

Alexandra Shulman12:48

I should think literally the only two people probably in the whole world that can sing every word and I haven't heard it for at least 45 years.

Speaker 412:59

Can't find me caviar, can't afford a jaguar He don't smoke a baked cigar Buys me half pints at the bar But he makes me feel so good I forget about my food and it's chips

Speaker 413:20

Chips

Speaker 413:22

Chips with everything.

Presenter13:28

That was barbarquet and chips with everything. Never mind chips with everything, Alexander Shulman. Is it true that in uh assembly you were once told, in front of the whole school, that you weren't allowed potatoes with anything?

Alexandra Shulman13:38

Is that right? It wasn't assembly, it was lunchtime. Right. But it was true. What happened?

Presenter13:42

What happened?

Alexandra Shulman13:43

My mum, I think I must have been about ten, was worried that I was getting really podgy, and so she said to the headmistress of our school,

Alexandra Shulman13:54

Uh can you make sure that Alexandra doesn't have potato? Because we'd have the most delicious mashed potato. I can still see it now in a Pyrex bowl with that pool of butter soaked into the middle of it. It'd be on the table at school. And um I loved mashed potato. Anyway, for some reason best known to themselves, they thought to announce this fact um in front of everybody in the dining room rather than just quietly to me. But I've survived.

Speaker 114:06

Uh

Speaker 414:06

Oh.

Speaker 114:06

To be on the

Presenter14:22

So you you went from your primary school to St Paul's School in London. How did you get on, not in the dining hall, but elsewhere?

Alexandra Shulman14:30

Well I went to St Paul's having got in from the mashed potato primary school as being one of the sort of successful people in the class there and arrived at St Paul's where there were seventy very bright girls from schools all over London and was kind of promptly relegated to kind of third division in everything which didn't play very well I suppose looking back with my kind of psychology. And I wasn't an academic success there and when my parents went to one of the sort of parent teachers evening and my mum asked my English teacher what she would recommend you know I did as a career she said she thought I might just about get a job if I worked in a kindergarten which is no offence to people working in kindergartens but it wasn't at all what my mum had thought she was going to get out of this very kind of high powered girls school.

Presenter15:26

And you said that it didn't really um fit with what was your kind of psychology. Tell me more about that.

Alexandra Shulman15:33

I think I'm somebody who flourishes on success, but if I feel that I'm a non-starter, then I'll just give up and move on. I'm also probably intensely competitive and therefore won't compete at things that I don't think I stand at least a chance of winning. But I now realise that my intolerance of not being successful at something that I want to be successful

Alexandra Shulman16:01

is is very slight. Uh

Presenter16:03

Let's have some music, Alex Shulman. Tell me about the next one. We're on your fourth choice of the morning.

Alexandra Shulman16:07

This track here combines two of my favourites. It's Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, sung by Joan Byatz but written by Bob Dylan. And this song I first heard in southern Italy. It was one of the first holidays I went on where we were kind of children and adults and everyone was all kind of meshed together.

Alexandra Shulman16:31

Every time I listen to it, it reminds me of the feeling of future, I think.

Speaker 416:37

My weist, my ravi.

Speaker 416:51

Should I put them by your gate?

Speaker 416:59

Said I, Lady, should I wait?

Presenter17:08

Joan Baez, singing Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands. So, Alexandra Shulman, I need to know more about how you looked when you were younger.

Presenter17:16

If I'd met you when you were eighteen.

Presenter17:19

What would I have seen?

Alexandra Shulman17:20

You'd see a sad-eyed lady of the lowlands and definitely a bit of Joan Byers because I had very long hair and I was always in a kind of

Alexandra Shulman17:31

Moo Moo or kind of Kaftan-y thing, you know, sort of relatively hippie-looking. So I was definitely channeling Joan at that point. Yeah.

Presenter17:41

You went to Sussex University, you read social anthropology, did did you have a good time?

Alexandra Shulman17:44

I was forced by my dad and my mum actually to go to university because my mother hadn't been to university and the one thing that they were absolutely determined to do was for us to have a very good education. Did they never say to you you should do what we do because we love it? No, they both wanted us to be journalists. Did they? Really, yeah, yeah. My dad, you know, literally on his deathbed, his last thought was, you know, what better life could you have than being a journalist? And I'm very aware that I've lived through a fantastic period of being a journalist. That ability to experience and gain information and then impart it to others is, I mean, it's a great privilege. You might be reporting from a war zone or you might be reporting from a fashion show, but you know, what a luxury to be able to experience something and tell other people about it.

Presenter18:06

Did they

Presenter18:38

Your first job in publishing, I think, was as secretary. And you worked your way up gradually through the ranks and you ended up at Tatler in 1982, and that was the same time as we really had the birth of the Sloan Ranger. So when you pinned on your Butler and Wilson Diamante brooch and you went out for the evening, what sort of evenings out did you have?

Speaker 118:54

Yeah.

Alexandra Shulman18:54

Yeah.

Alexandra Shulman18:55

I had that new yes.

Alexandra Shulman19:00

I went out a lot when I was in my twenties and now I just think, you know, how did I get into work the next morning? Because you'd kind of, you know, you'd go off, you'd go off to a private view in London, be a gallery that would be opening. And then you'd go maybe to a book publishing party, you know, and you'd have a couple of glasses of wine there. And then if you were.

Alexandra Shulman19:20

lucky you'd meet up with some people and they'd all say, you know, let's go to Zanzibar or

Alexandra Shulman19:26

the Groucho Club or whatever, and you'd all end up in a huge table there and, you know, at midnight you might go home or you might go on to one of the kind of one night clubs that were popping up all over London and dance and and drink more. And I do remember that I was one of the few people that I sort of hung with at that moment, the few women.

Alexandra Shulman19:47

who actually had a job to go to the next morning and I do remember always being one of the first people to leave, you know

Presenter19:53

You were features editor then at Tatler. What sort of pieces would you be commissioning and writing?

Alexandra Shulman19:57

I got a lot of articles, big, big features to write, not about world famous people, but more about kind of figures around the London scene. And then I'd commission pieces that were social observation really. You know, what was everyone eating, drinking, wearing, talking about and make a story out of it. And in fact, that's still really the kind of journalism I really quite enjoy doing.

Presenter20:23

Let's have some more music, Alex Shulman. What are we going to hear? Your uh your fifth?

Alexandra Shulman20:27

Chelsea Hotel number two by Leonard Cohen. I love this one because, as he says, it's about the workers in song and it kind of always makes me think of that still slight desire to be part of the music industry.

Speaker 120:41

You were talking so brave and so sweet

Speaker 120:47

Getting me head on the unmade bed

Speaker 120:52

What a limousine.

Speaker 120:54

Wait in the street

Speaker 120:58

Those were the reason.

Speaker 121:00

That was New York, we were running for the money and the flame.

Speaker 121:08

And that was called love.

Speaker 121:11

For the workers in Sa

Speaker 121:14

Probably still is for those of them left.

Presenter21:18

That was Chelsea Hotel number two, sung of course by Leonard Cohen. So, Alexandra Schumunn, the twenty one years then that you've been in charge, um, you're always when you are written about in the same article, in the same breath, Anna Winter is written. I mean, you smiled even before I said that, you knew what I was going to say.

Presenter21:37

You are sort of regarded by people as the Auntie Winter. You know, she is famous for being this rather certainly flinty looking character. You know, she's in these tiny little Oscar de la Renta outfits. And does it cheese you off that her name is always brought up alongside yours?

Alexandra Shulman21:52

Um

Alexandra Shulman21:54

It makes me laugh more than anything else. Sometimes I've thought that maybe I'll write a book called Would Anna Do This when I'm sort of doing something like feeding the cat or something. I've actually found Anna incredibly supportive and I like her. And I find it odd that having been editor of the magazine for twenty one years that people still look at me and say

Alexandra Shulman22:15

How can you manage to be editor because it's like, well, I am what editor of Vogue in London looks like now.

Presenter22:22

Do you think that's what they think?

Alexandra Shulman22:24

Oh, whenever people come in and interview me, it's always the thing that they always start saying or or write about. But, you know, everybody does their job in their own way and you know, we all have our shtick.

Presenter22:34

What about the power that you wield? I mean, every super star wants to be on the cover of Vogue. Do you have stars kind of oiling up to you and you think, Oh yes, I know what this I know what they're after here?

Alexandra Shulman22:45

Um no, I mean I'd love to say that um Angelina Jolie is constantly on the phone begging to be on the cover, but no it's not like that and I think that the cover has become a kind of endorsement and all kinds of people feel quite strongly about who's on the cover. When for instance I first put Victoria Beckham on the cover there was quite a lot of kind of fuss about the fact that Victoria Beckham was deemed to be an appropriate person to be on the cover, whereas now she's been on covers of Vogue all over the world. And I mean that's what's the sort of glory of editing the magazine because you do have that power and people do pay attention to you and you can use it but you're also trying to use it to make statements about what you want to do with the magazine and intent and you also use it because if there's a very popular actress who's coming out in a movie you're going to try and get them because that's going to sell copies. So you're sort of trying to do different things with each issue really. Does it feel good, the power? Yeah, power's great.

Presenter23:51

Let's have some music. What are we gonna hear now? We're on your sixth.

Alexandra Shulman23:55

Leaving New York by R. E. M. This song I like because I've become a runner and there's nothing I enjoy more than plugging you know the headphones in and running. This track always does you know it's a bit of a kind of power surge when it comes on.

Speaker 424:13

Leaving New York, never he saved

Speaker 424:18

I saw the light fading out

Speaker 424:23

Now life is sweet.

Speaker 424:26

What it brings, I try to take

Speaker 424:34

But loneliness that wears me out.

Speaker 424:39

In license way

Presenter24:45

That was REM and leaving New York. So Alexandra Schulman, you were a mother to a teenage son. You've been a stepmum too to a stepdaughter. Let's talk a little bit then about your family life. How has being a mum worked with well a lot of the time actually being a single mum. How have you managed to work it in with such a high profile and high powered job as being editor of Vogue?

Alexandra Shulman25:06

Well, I think you just are a mum, aren't you? As soon as you have a child, you're a mum. It's hard for me to say how

Presenter25:14

But did it make it better in a way? Did it make doing the job better? Because did it give you a sense of proportion about the job?

Alexandra Shulman25:17

Yeah.

Alexandra Shulman25:19

Absolutely 100%. Moment I had Sam, everything in my life became better actually. Certainly work, because you were able to have this other thing that was just more important. Always, you know, I'd have a terrible day at work. Maybe there'd be some problem with some designer who hadn't liked a picture we've shot, or an article would come in and it was completely wrong, and then I'd have two people in the office ryeong with each other, and I'd come home and, you know, and there would be my child, and he wasn't interested in that. And I was able to immerse myself in him, and still actually, poor thing, still am. I also had Emma, my stepdaughter, living with me from when she was 12. So I had nice other

Presenter26:05

Life going on. Your partner now, and has been, I think, for the last uh decade, is the writer and journalist David Jenkins. Is he interested in your world? Does he like coming to all those fancy parties? Uh

Alexandra Shulman26:16

Yeah.

Presenter26:16

I'm David Just.

Alexandra Shulman26:17

Loves people. He gets what he calls a contact high.

Alexandra Shulman26:23

And he loves it. I mean, he doesn't come to everything with me. He comes to the things he wants to come to with me. And he's been...

Alexandra Shulman26:33

Really wonderful person to to have in my life and got got on incredibly well with with

Presenter26:39

Some What about the thorny subject of aging? You once said it's been a huge help to have been nice looking but never beautiful. How do you feel about the aging process, given that you are surrounded by youth and beauty, and that's what, you know, vogue is mostly. It's about the young, beautiful women.

Alexandra Shulman26:55

Well, I mean, I know people think I'm a bit kind of peculiar about this, but it sort of doesn't really bother me. I mean, obviously, you know, you know, I can get up and look in the morning and I can think this is, you know, this is tragic. You know, got the sacks underneath my eyes. I kind of see sort of, you know, that thing sometimes when you walk into a shop and you see some person in the mirror and you think it's some kind of sad old lady and you realize it's you. You know, I've had those moments, definitely. But in general, I feel quite kind of happy with how I look and I don't compare myself to the models or the young people in my office. You know what? Maybe it's to do with my mum. I mean, you know, she's 85, she looks incredible. She's never done any kind of procedure. She was never on a diet. And, you know, maybe having a mother around you who

Speaker 127:17

Some sad old lady.

Alexandra Shulman27:47

You know, seem to be relatively comfortable with the aging process themselves.

Alexandra Shulman27:52

Possibly helped. I don't know. I mean, you know, maybe it's all going to go terribly wrong soon, but.

Presenter27:58

Doesn't sound like it. Time for some music, Alexandra Shulman. We're on your seventh choice of today. What is it?

Alexandra Shulman28:04

We Three, Patty Smith. I wrote a novel which is called Can We Still Be Friends, but my working title for it was We Three, and there's a line in this which is the dice rolls so deceptively for We Three. The song isn't about three friends, but it was sort of what was going on in my head when I was writing it, and it's a great song.

Speaker 428:26

Don't take my hope away from me You say you want me

Speaker 428:37

I want another baby

Speaker 428:40

You say you wish for me

Speaker 428:45

Who's for your brother?

Speaker 428:48

Oh the day is wrong.

Speaker 428:52

So set the fleet, hold me free.

Presenter29:06

We Three, sung by Patty Smith. So, Alexander Shulman, to what extent are you conscious of people snapping at your heels and wanting your job?

Alexandra Shulman29:15

Well, as somebody who was editor of a national newspaper women's page at I think I was 27 and then editor of GQ at 32 and Vogue at 34, you know, I'm aware that I was really lucky, you know, and it was very much a moment in time where if you were a young woman in London media, there were jobs out there and everybody wanted you because they wanted to show that they were sort of part of what was happening by having a young woman there. And it's not like that now. And of course, because we all got these jobs quite young, we've all sat there with no intention of moving.

Presenter29:57

Do you have no intention of moving?

Alexandra Shulman29:59

No, not really. No, I've sort of got my bottom firmly planted in the chair. And actually,

Alexandra Shulman30:05

I'm really enjoying the fact that the job has become so varied with all of the kind of digital world opening up, but also doing festivals and various other projects. So it's not just about putting together a magazine. So it's kind of endlessly interesting. No, I mean I guess, you know, they're going to be carrying me out.

Alexandra Shulman30:24

In a box. Fine.

Presenter30:26

I would imagine. Um I'm gonna cast you away to this island and and given that you have done the whole kind of single parenting and coping on your own, you're a coper. Will you cope on the island?

Alexandra Shulman30:26

I would imagine

Alexandra Shulman30:36

Yup, I think I will. Although it has to be said that I've never been a particular kind of traveller, Desert Island person. And there is a quite pertinent story that I remembered, which was when I was three, I think, and my mum was looking after me for an afternoon, which I hope she will forgive me for saying didn't happen that often at that stage. And she was trying to think what to do with me, and she turned a chair upside down and

Alexandra Shulman31:04

She put me on it and she said, Imagine now, you know, you're on a ship and over there in the distance, you're standing there, you can see there's a desert island.

Alexandra Shulman31:13

And there's a sign on the desert island. What does that sign say? And I said, No buried treasure here And I think I feel like that quite about things, you know. I'm not sure that I feel like there'd be that much exciting stuff on

Presenter31:27

In the island.

Alexandra Shulman31:27

And Yeah.

Presenter31:28

Some music to comfort you of course though, so let's listen to your final disc. What's it gonna be?

Alexandra Shulman31:32

Well, it's Side of the Road by Lucinda Williams and it very much follows on from A Desert Island because to my mind this song is all about what it feels like to be alone. I've spent quite a lot of time on my own, for which I'm grateful for and I sort of know what it feels like to be alone.

Speaker 431:53

No wonder about the people.

Speaker 431:56

You lived in it.

Speaker 431:59

And I wondered if they were happy and content.

Speaker 432:05

Were they children and a man and a wife?

Speaker 432:12

Did she love him and take her hair down at night?

Presenter32:22

That was Lucinda Williams and Side of the Road. So, Alex Shulman, it's time to give you the books. You get the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. What else will you take?

Alexandra Shulman32:31

Well, I want to take a specific edition of the Penguin Book of Love Poetry, and it's a book that my dad gave me with the inscription to my darling Alexandra on her 17th birthday with as much love as is inside Daddy. So I think that would make me happy.

Presenter32:51

Uh

Alexandra Shulman32:51

Uh

Presenter32:51

Right, you can certainly have that. And what luxury would you like to take?

Alexandra Shulman32:54

This was this was really hard, but I think in the end I'd like to take an endless supply of Miss Dior Eau de Toilette because I've been wearing it since since a holiday when I fell madly in love, and I just love it, and it always reminds me of that wonderful exhilaration when you fall madly in love.

Presenter33:13

Of course, an endless supply it is, and one track to save from these eight that you've chosen to day.

Alexandra Shulman33:18

It's got to be Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands by Jan Byers because one, it's incredibly long, so it would go on for longer, and two, it could take me the rest of my life to work out what she's actually talking about.

Presenter33:29

It's yours. Alexander Shulman, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you.

Presenter34:19

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc.co.uk slash Radio Four.