Rankin

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:33

My castaway this week is the photographer Rankin. He started out doing fashion shoots and is certainly very good at making pretty young things look even prettier. But his work and influence have spread well beyond the glossy pages of style Bibles. From Congolese war widows to canoodling pensioners, his skill is capturing a moment of spontaneous and often surprising truth.

Presenter0:56

He should really be doing people's tax returns. He went to college to study accountancy, but his head was turned in his halls of residence when the art students seemed to be having all the fun. Within a few years, Kate Moss was posing for his camera in nothing but a fedora and high leather boots. However, his reputation for raunch was put on the back burner the day he photographed the Queen. His picture of a serene and smiling monarch now hangs in the National Portrait Gallery. Photography is, he says, like a seduction. It's a relationship compressed into a moment. I can't imagine, Rankin, that there was much seduction taking place the day you photographed Her Majesty, was there?

Rankin1:32

It's so hard to talk about the Queen because everybody has such preconceived notions of what she's like and she's one of the the only people I really researched before I met her and I had this immense amount of respect for her as a person. And then the day that I was at the palace to shoot her, I saw her walking down a really long corridor with a very tall footman and they were laughing.

Rankin1:55

And I thought, that's exactly what I wanted her to be like. So when I actually took the photograph, I had five minutes to shoot. And so I've got to get this. So I really just started pretending almost like I was Austin Powers and saying, Ma'am, can you smile, ma'am? Please, can you smile, ma'am? And eventually I got that one big smiling shot, and that was it.

Presenter2:17

Just to put this in into context, I mean, you are somebody who's used to photographing very, very well known people, um Daniel Craig, Madonna, Kate Moss, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Helena Christensen, Heidi Clum, Tony Blair, and on and on and on and on.

Rankin2:28

From then on.

Presenter2:29

Where is the power balance when those people walk into a studio? Because it's a funny thing, isn't it? Even if they've had their picture taken hundreds or maybe even thousands of times, you're the person who has the power to make them look bad.

Rankin2:34

They've had

Rankin2:36

I'm making that.

Rankin2:40

I do. And it's funny because my dad always said to me, Everybody's the same. Imagine it's the Queen. She has to do all the normal things that every other human being has to do. So

Rankin2:51

That was what I was going to say, but I don't think you can say that.

Presenter2:53

I can't say

Rankin2:54

But um but my dad in you know in Scotland that was like normal like everybody should be equal.

Presenter3:00

And the time constraint that you have, you only had five minutes to take the picture of the Queen that was to hang in the National Portrait Gallery. I mean, you know, that's that's a pretty uh tall order. You shot covers for Vogue and L and Playboy and Vanity Fair and Q and so on and so on. How long does it take to get the shot? Somebody who has to be in a studio for sort of eight hours to get the one shot.

Rankin3:18

No, y I think David Bailey actually once said to me, It's an hour, isn't it? You know, half an hour to chat to them, half an hour to shoot them and if you're any good at it, you'll you'll get that

Rankin3:29

picture within an hour. But you have to learn that skill. It took me lots of going to hotel rooms to photograph terrible bands and being given ten minutes and that training of actually having to think on your feet and to be able to go and do the queen in five minutes or anybody in five minutes.

Presenter3:45

Do powerful people want you to make them look powerful? Do beautiful people want you to make them look more beautiful. Do people just want a sort of bigger version of themselves projected through a photograph?

Rankin3:54

I think the best people want you to find something in them that hasn't been seen before, even if it's just a silly thing. Like blur, I said to Damon Alban, is they wouldn't photographed you blurred? And he said no. And I just thought, Oh, that'd be a really funny photograph.

Presenter4:10

Plenty to talk about, Rankine. We've got your list sitting here. Tell us what we're going to hear, first of all.

Rankin4:14

This song is It Had to Be You by Frank Sinatra. It was in a film called When Harry Met Sally. If anybody knows the film, it's about a couple that can't quite connect. And then towards the end they do connect. So when it's the real thing, the real love, Frank Sinatra.

Speaker 34:30

It had to.

Speaker 34:39

It had to be used.

Speaker 34:47

I wandered around and I finally found

Speaker 34:54

The somebody who

Speaker 35:01

But make me be true.

Presenter5:06

That was Frank Sinatra and it had to be you. So, Rankin, you are famous for lots of photographs, and if people were to sit and look at your photographs today, they'd think, oh yeah, he took that and that and that and that. And one of the things that they would recognize is the Dove campaign, which was shot in 2004 and differentiated itself from all the other ads that bombard us every day by the fact that it was, I mean, supposedly real women shot in the white underwear against looking very, very, very beautiful. They were real women, were they?

Rankin5:30

Yeah.

Rankin5:33

They were real women, were they? They were real women, yeah. They were all cast through putting ads in newspapers and they really focused on the women being, you know, like the girl next door and also really pushed for different shapes, sizes, ethnicities, which is unusual in advertising.

Presenter5:50

Very unusual. And at the time it caused a huge stir, and certainly you know, taking, I suppose, a pretty unrepresentative straw poll among the women I know. We all loved it. We loved seeing women like us in the pages of magazines. Why on earth do we not see more women like us? Because women do respond positively to it.

Rankin6:00

People make

Rankin6:05

Yeah, that's a very good question. It's hard to answer sometimes because it's like a vicious circle. If we don't see it, we don't know we want it. I think it's seeping into the normal every day more and more. But sometimes we do like to just use the good old luxury sexy photograph.

Presenter6:11

If we don't see it, we don't

Presenter6:23

I think that's a very interesting point because untypically you are a photographer, but also you are somebody who's been a publisher, you're an editor of magazines. You could put more of these women into magazines.

Rankin6:32

More of these women. And I do do that more, but it's not part of my raison d'être to change the world of fashion. If you just had all of that type of person

Presenter6:44

That type of person being what you mean real people.

Rankin6:45

Yeah, real people in fashion magazines, it would be difficult for me to actually sell advertising. I mean, I take responsibility for it and I'd definitely add to it, but um at the same time I've done projects on on real people constantly throughout my career to keep myself normal. I

Presenter7:01

I I mentioned the canoodling pensioners there in the introduction. That wa that is a very arresting photograph of of two people. I don't know how old they were, but certainly in their later years I mean, I can use the word snog, I think, properly, having a snog.

Rankin7:03

To get the

Rankin7:06

Two people.

Rankin7:11

Yeah.

Rankin7:13

I just thought the thing about kissing is we don't look at it because we're also a bit embarrassed by it. So I did a project called Snorg where I asked people to come in and kiss each other and then took very close up photographs of them. But most of them are quite funny, especially the pensioners. And they were a couple, they were just a couple.

Presenter7:29

They were

Presenter7:30

Very many clearly, they were from the photograph. If they weren't when they came in, they certainly would.

Presenter7:35

Yeah.

Presenter7:36

But

Rankin7:36

But you make it so I mean it could sound really horrible. It's a wonderful photograph. It's a joyous photograph. They're quite funny photographs. And I think kissing's such a safe and lovely thing to do.

Presenter7:36

The em

Presenter7:39

It's a wonderful photograph.

Presenter7:43

Great.

Presenter7:47

Very many of your portraits are taken in very, very close proximity to the subject. You're right. It seems like your camera lens must be almost right up against them.

Rankin7:51

The subject

Rankin7:54

Yeah.

Presenter7:56

How do people feel about that? How do they respond to that?

Rankin7:59

I think as long as you've washed and you've brushed your teeth it's okay. I think that most people do find photography uncomfortable, including most celebrities. They do feel like they're under a microscope.

Rankin8:10

And it's my job to make them feel comfortable and make them feel confident about themselves so that they'll give something to the camera.

Presenter8:17

Um, you once said uh you like the sex of taking photographs.

Rankin8:23

You're gonna make me sound like I'm some sort of pervert. No. It's an exchange. I mean, I think it goes back to the thing about the fashion. I don't just do fashion, I do portraiture. But I'm seduced by fashion. And if you don't fall in love with the subject on some level, I don't think you take great photographs. And I don't, for me, it's like about empowerment. I don't want it to be all about kind of perfection. And I don't actually look at that.

Presenter8:48

It's time now for your second choice. Rankin, what are we going to hear? Why have you chosen this?

Rankin8:51

This is a Bring Me Sunshine, and I love it because my wife and I, instead of having any hymns, we had our friends sing it at our wedding. And because my parents and my sister and I used to watch it on a Saturday night, the Morkin Wise show was something that we always loved.

Speaker 39:07

Bring me sunshine.

Speaker 39:11

Ain't y'all smile.

Speaker 39:14

Bring me laughter.

Speaker 39:16

All the while.

Speaker 39:19

In this world where we live, There should be more happiness, so much joy you can give To each brand new bright tomorrow, make me happy.

Speaker 39:34

Through the years.

Presenter9:36

That was Morecambe and Wise and Bring Me Sunshine. So, Rankin, you were born in 1966. What's the name on your birth certificate?

Rankin9:43

Don't

Presenter9:43

Yeah.

Rankin9:44

Right.

Presenter9:44

Uh

Rankin9:44

Ankin Waddell.

Presenter9:44

And why you not call John Waddell the photographer?

Rankin9:47

There's a family tradition where my father was called John Roy Waddle and my grandfather was called John Ramage Waddle, and um you would call my dad Roy, so I was called Rankin.

Presenter9:56

And did you decide was there a point uh in your photography where you started to become known that you thought actually the one word thing is a cracking piece of branding?

Rankin10:04

Yes, right at the beginning. That was almost one of the first decisions I made to drop the waddle. Some photographers are known by one name, like Bailey or Penn, and that I think that came from just the way they were credited in the magazine.

Presenter10:18

And so you were brought up in the west of Scotland at home then? Were there pictures on the wall, books? Was was it a sort of artistic household in that respect?

Rankin10:25

No, I mean, you would probably call it um a working class house kind of done well. My dad learnt everything from Reader's Digest and had left school at fifteen and my mum was fairly similar in her upbringing and there wasn't any kind of art in the house.

Presenter10:41

Y you've said that you don't remember your childhood clearly, only moments of it. And I think lots of people sort of feel like that. If if you had to go back into your mental album and pull out a few snapshots, what what are the bits you do remember clearly?

Rankin10:52

I remember things like the last time my father hugged me.

Rankin10:56

Was when I got into trouble for messing around. That was the last time you hugged me'cause I was, you know, I was being told off.

Presenter11:01

So he was in your corner.

Rankin11:02

He was always looking out for me, yeah, always. A tough man? Not really, kind of a soppy man, very loving, but very difficult when I went to photography because he really I think he really saw me following in his footsteps into business and

Rankin11:17

But then I'd never have been able to do it if he hadn't kind of told me I was brilliant.

Presenter11:21

And your dad w was doing well in business. As you say, he worked his way through the banks r from you know from the bottom up. Were you a child who was sort of given gifts? Were you on the chopper before anyone else? Were you you know one of those kids who had a you know a pretty sort of cosseted upbringing in that respect?

Rankin11:25

Yeah.

Rankin11:37

No, not at all. I mean, it really we didn't have a record player in our house till I was about fourteen and I was the kid that didn't have the chopper, and that's been a really brilliant thing for me because I don't need to have

Rankin11:50

The glitziest news things. My wife says I'm the hardest person to buy for because I'm not a possessions person.

Rankin11:58

Not really. I've been looking through those recently. We just didn't take that many photographs and it's quite strange for somebody who's come from that background to become a photographer because there was nothing like that at all. And really it was only when I got to about sort of sixteen and I started going out with a girl at school. She was into fashion and I started to think, Oh, that's an interesting thing.

Presenter12:19

Let's have some music. Number three, what are we gonna hear?

Rankin12:21

Well we're gonna hear Monkey Man by the Rolling Stones and the reason I chose this song was because I went to see the Rolling Stones when I was 16. My dad let me go and see them and I missed an exam at school and I queued up at Wembley Stadium to see them live. And then 20 years later I got the chance to photograph them and it was a brilliant shoot, it went really well and they were so enthusiastic and so young and so vibrant. And after the shoot they said come down and listen to us rehearse and Mick Jaggers sang Monkey Man to me.

Speaker 312:54

I'm a pre15 mom

Speaker 313:04

Cold Italian pizza

Speaker 313:07

You've a lemon squeezer. What do you want?

Speaker 313:13

But I've been bitter and I've been toast to ram here Cause she red in the town

Speaker 313:24

Yeah.

Presenter13:26

That was The Rolling Stones and Monkey Man and memories there for you, Rankin, of you getting your very own solo performance from Mick Jagger of that song. Um, you were meant to go and study accountancy at college, but it all sort of well, it went wrong. What happened?

Rankin13:38

Well, I ended up in Brighton Polytechnic doing accountancy. And as I said, I'd kind of been into fashion a little bit, but it was just through girlfriends and friends and

Rankin13:48

I was sort of dumped in this halls of residence and

Rankin13:52

Nearly every single student that I was in the halls with was an art student. And I just thought, wow, these guys are having a brilliant time And also they questioned me a lot on my tastes and

Rankin14:04

Why I like Robert Palmer and, you know, things like that, which I don't think is a bad thing, but

Rankin14:09

You know, they said he's, you know, that video's a bit sexist, isn't it? And I was like, not that I didn't know what sexist meant, no, they just questioned me.

Presenter14:14

No.

Speaker 214:14

Uh

Rankin14:16

And it was hard actually because I had to go back to my parents who were very, very happy that I'd.

Rankin14:22

decided to study accountancy and I was doing quite well.

Rankin14:25

But after the first term, I was like, this is crazy. I can't, I shouldn't be doing this. And I really believed that I'd made the wrong decision.

Presenter14:31

So you came out of college. What was your father's response to that and your mother?

Rankin14:33

To fall as a

Rankin14:34

He wouldn't draw it to me. It was a difficult year, the year that I was off and I worked in lots of different jobs. But I did, you know, I I grafted, I did cleaning jobs. And then I went to do uh B tech and photography at Barnfield College in Luton.

Presenter14:47

There is an astonishing photograph of you. I think it's one of your first photographs, and you used it indeed in your coursework, I think, for this college course, which is you standing in the front garden of this very nicely kept, generous-sized suburban home, and your father's there, interestingly with no shoes on. I don't know if that's important, but in his socks, his stocking feet, and your mother's there, your sister's there, your girlfriend's there, a couple of friends in the background.

Rankin14:54

Yeah.

Rankin15:00

Precisely

Rankin15:09

Yeah.

Presenter15:11

Hmm. Mm.

Rankin15:11

Uh

Presenter15:11

Yeah.

Presenter15:12

You're naked.

Rankin15:14

Well, yeah, I mean I I'm naked but I've got my hands I'm covered.

Presenter15:18

Yeah, but everybody else is we

Rankin15:19

Yeah, but it was it was a self portrait project that I was doing at Barnfield and I had to persuade everyone to come into this image, but it was about sort of how you saw yourself. And if you look at the photograph closer, you'll see

Presenter15:19

Oh yeah.

Presenter15:31

There's a Jean-Paul Sergeant Boolean.

Rankin15:31

It's so pretentious and studenty.

Presenter15:35

Bud

Rankin15:35

To be with

Presenter15:36

Yeah.

Rankin15:36

Yeah, it was brilliant. I mean, I really, I remember that. I remember that. What were you trying?

Presenter15:39

What were you trying to express?

Rankin15:41

Just this is what I am, this is where I come from, this is I was very proud of my family, I've never been someone that's my embarrassed by my my working class background.

Presenter15:50

You went on to start something that was small but highly influential with Jefferson Hack, the publisher. You met him when you went on to the London School of Printing and you started a magazine called Dazed and Confused. It was described at the time, I think, as painfully hip. I mean it's one of those things that in a news agent it sort of had a force field around it. You could only come near if you were somebody who was properly fashionable.

Rankin15:56

The publisher

Rankin16:05

It's one of the

Rankin16:12

If you wore the right skinny jeans. It was a good time.

Presenter16:14

Exactly.

Rankin16:17

for Jefferson and I because

Rankin16:20

We went to the college at the point when desktop publishing was taking off. So

Rankin16:26

What was impossible probably ten years before, unless you had some formal training in publishing, became something.

Rankin16:34

that anybody could do

Presenter16:35

And were you yourself painfully hip at the time?

Rankin16:38

No, I think probably Jefferson was more painfully hip than than I was and still is. I'm the least fashionable person. I always wear the same thing, so I don't have to think about fashion. I think we were never really about being hip. If you look at the early copies, we were inspired by the DIY nature of Malcolm McLaren and the punk ethos of that. And then we loved Andy Warhol's interview. That was the magazine that we looked to as our kind of inspiration. And the magazine was a lot to do with art more than kind of fashion. But yeah, I think it was something that people gave us as a name.

Presenter17:12

Let's hear your next piece of music. What is it?

Rankin17:14

Awasis are one of those bands that I think everybody gives a bad rap. They were such a massive part of my life in the nineties and it was very much about yourself and feeling like you could rule the world and this song really summed it up for me.

Speaker 317:28

I need to be myself

Speaker 317:33

I'm not in no one else.

Speaker 317:38

I'm here to superside, give me dinner time.

Speaker 317:43

You could have it all, but how much do you want it to make me laugh?

Speaker 317:52

You're on the ground Now I know what

Presenter17:58

That was Oasis and Supersonic. So tell me then, Rankin, about your nineties. Tell me about the kind of Oasis Kate Moss Rankin arc that defined that period.

Rankin18:08

I think people look back at it like they look back at the sixties, you know, and I don't remember quite a lot of it because I spent most of it going to parties and having a great time. Kind of one part was building the magazine and then the other part was kind of enjoying the success of it. But I never had three day benders or anything like that. I always used to go home, whether it was at midnight or

Rankin18:30

Six in the morning, or I'd go straight to work. So, Jefferson and I would also be in by nine o'clock. You'd be in work at nine o'clock. So, even if you'd been out.

Presenter18:30

Six in the morning

Presenter18:36

You'd be in work at 9 a.m. So even if you'd been out till 6 a.m. you'd be in.

Rankin18:40

Yeah, always.

Presenter18:41

But but that can be a false comfort, can't it? I mean, I think in the business it's called what is it, a high-functioning addict, where people still they think I'm fine because I was at work.

Rankin18:46

Still they think I'm fine because I was at work. Yeah, I don't think I was ever an addict. My drug of choice was always work and still addicted to that. I don't know if that's a healthy addiction or not. I don't know it I mean, it's definitely not been great in terms of family and my first marriage failed completely.

Rankin19:04

I I look back on it now and you believe your own hype.

Rankin19:08

It affects your work, I think, because there was a lot of stuff that I did in the late 90s that wasn't very good.

Presenter19:14

Let's just talk a little bit about believing your own hype then. What do you do? You you read what how somebody reviews stuff or you you you feel that every time they pull back the the VIP rope and let you in with your fashionable friends that somehow you're elevated.

Rankin19:16

Yeah.

Rankin19:24

Yeah.

Rankin19:26

Absolutely. I mean, you think I always thought I was a rock star and we hung out with people like that, so you can't help but get kind of swept away in it. But I think it's healthy to have it and then

Rankin19:38

to realise, you know, to wake up one morning and look in the mirror and go,

Rankin19:41

You're not a rock star.

Rankin19:44

And you're never going to be a rock star.

Presenter19:46

What made you wake up and look in the mirror and say that to yourself? Was it looking at the work and knowing it wasn't as good, or was it just suffering one too many come downs or one too many hangovers?

Rankin19:55

Um, it was a little bit of both, but I mean, it was I had I had my son Lyle when I was thirty, and I think by the time I was thirty four, thirty five, I started to realize that

Rankin20:09

Being a father

Rankin20:10

was really important and what he would think of me

Rankin20:14

As a person, and I mean, he saved me in a lot of ways from being an idiot.

Presenter20:19

Did people who had known you before, and I'm thinking probably principally of your family here, but really close friends maybe from way back, ever call you or sit you down or say, you know, just hold on a minute.

Rankin20:23

Meaning close.

Rankin20:29

No, and I probably wouldn't have listened to them if I'm honest. I I was enjoying it and

Rankin20:34

I really don't regret it. I'm glad I went through it because it makes me very clear.

Rankin20:41

Now that I would never want to do that.

Presenter20:43

Drugs and drink, of course, run amok through people's careers. You know, you could have been an accountant and going through the same thing, but certainly in the world that you occupy, the very you know, the high-end fashion world, studios are full of people who are altered in some way when they walk in and think it will make them better in front of the camera or indeed behind the camera. When you're working with people now and you can see that in them, what's your reaction?

Rankin20:48

But that's

Rankin20:52

Yeah.

Rankin20:56

They walk

Rankin20:58

More and

Rankin21:04

I think it's changed a lot actually the business. But I remember, you know, I photographed a girl who was apparently on heroin when I was probably about thirty four and I didn't even know. I don't know if I was a bit naïve about it, but now I don't I don't really see it as much. You know, it's definitely not part of the culture.

Presenter21:22

Let's have some more music. What's next?

Rankin21:25

Okay, so this actually comes back to the night my wife and I got together, we played this on a loop and when we got married it was our first song and we danced to it and then we did a thing for Oxfam and the band played for us and we got on stage with them and it sounds like I live this amazing life where everything that I want happens but it's the only time I've ever been on stage with a band playing my favourite song.

Speaker 321:48

Morning's eleven, the feelings are severed, I can't feel it at all. But I wouldn't die for you.

Speaker 321:58

Oh, I would die for you All that I've ever seen, all that I've ever been, all that I ever was I would die for you

Speaker 322:13

Oh, I would die for you.

Presenter22:18

That was the magic numbers and morning's eleven. So Rankin, you're married now for the second time to Tule, who is a model and is frequently described as your muse.

Rankin22:27

Is that fair? Um she's my soulmate, really, and definitely has saved me from myself. But yeah, I photographed her a lot. I actually get her to do things that most other models go, No, I wouldn't do that for you.

Presenter22:40

Yes, I did wonder about her private parts covered in hundreds and thousands, photographed close up.

Rankin22:45

If you see the image, it's really pretty. A lot of people don't know what it is when they see it.

Presenter22:50

I did.

Rankin22:50

I mean, of course I take photographs to get reactions from people. And also saying, you know, it's not right to be nude. Every we talk about it as if it's like something terrible.

Presenter23:01

You have said in the past that you believe in giving something back. You have travelled to places that are nightmare places, and particularly I'm thinking of the Congo, to take photographs there. Was it an experience that aside from taking the photographs of the survivors of this horrendous conflict and hoping that people take notice, personally, how did it affect you?

Rankin23:07

Yeah, I'm thinking of

Rankin23:19

I always say it was probably one of the most selfish things I did because

Rankin23:23

I went across there with as many good intentions as any human being that wants to help has. When you go to somewhere like that, you feel like your your life's amazing. You can't even describe the poverty. You can't imagine twelve members of a family living in a hut with one bag of seed a week. It's painful to be there.

Presenter23:45

Did it feel like an intricate?

Rankin23:46

Vision

Presenter23:46

Yeah.

Rankin23:47

I photographed the people in Goma twice, and I've never seen people respond more positively towards having the photograph taken. I made a really conscious effort to take a printer with me and go back to the camp and back to the village where we we shot and give people pictures.

Presenter24:06

One of your subjects said it was the photograph he wanted on his coffin.

Rankin24:09

Yeah, and that really was amazing for someone to say that. I've never been to an exhibition of my own work where I felt more.

Rankin24:16

Like, I've done something good. And, you know, I'll definitely be going back to the Congo.

Presenter24:20

Tell me about your next piece of music, Rankin. What are we gonna hear?

Rankin24:23

This one's a bit of a sad one. It's called I See a Darkness and it's by Bonnie Prince Billy. And I just think it's a song about men and that kind of love for a friend and to be able to talk about it and this song does it.

Speaker 224:36

Oh no, I see you don't

Speaker 224:49

Oh no I see darkness. Did you know how much I love you?

Speaker 224:58

Is a hope that somehow you can save me.

Speaker 225:04

From the star arose.

Presenter25:06

That was Bonnie Prince Billy and I See a Darkness. So Rankin, you said that it was becoming a father that sort of made you shape up and really focus yourself. Did it help to ignite your ambition? I mean, you you've said, you know, you're a workaholic and you you work every day and long hours every day.

Rankin25:14

Did it?

Rankin25:22

That's a difficult one to answer. I find one of the most difficult things for me to do is to take time off and spend time with my family because I'm my own biggest critic and I'm pushing myself harder to do better work and do more diverse work and to do work that has more depth to it. And you know, it's a bit cliché, but I'm going from the kind of the nihilistic youth to maturity with a bit more of a serious attitude. And I don't mean by losing your sense of humour, I think that's really important. Whether it's about fashion or it's about something that's more, I don't know, like death. You know, I've got doing a project on death at the moment and you're

Presenter25:57

Photographing people in stages of terminal illness.

Rankin25:59

Yeah, that's part of it. I'm calling it alive because I don't want it to just be a bad death. But the reason that I'm doing that is because of my parents passing away and me really not dealing with it very well and feeling kind of out on a limb. I'm in a really unique position and I think lots of artists are photographers or writers or poets or or, you know, painters or whatever. You you can process your emotions, you can process, you know, your experiences by by doing projects on it. So that's why I'm doing it.

Presenter26:29

And so your parents died within just a few weeks of each other, as I understand it, two thousand five into two thousand six. That is an enormous shock for anybody to deal with, to lose both parents. At the time, what did you do?

Rankin26:35

Yeah.

Rankin26:38

Yeah.

Rankin26:42

My sister and I just got on with it, and parents were brilliant in the sense that neither of them believed in God, so when they passed away, there was a finality to it, and that's a real gift for somebody that, I mean, in some ways it'd be great to have some spiritual side to it, but I just don't really believe in it, you know. And my parents said that, there's nothing, we're just gone.

Presenter26:44

Uh

Rankin27:03

And that's it. And that that allows you to

Rankin27:07

you know, to breathe and to kind of to accept it a lot more. And I really have to thank my parents for that. But um, that doesn't mean you don't miss them. Yes. And as you know, as you look at yourself in the mirror, you kind of think, well,

Rankin27:19

I'm gonna die, you know. I can see myself getting older and you better face up to this one or get to grips with it.

Presenter27:25

I wonder also about you know, you talk about the spiritual the idea that

Presenter27:29

This is final, this is it, I am gone, there is nothing left. Also, I wonder about your connections to your past, because as long as your parents were alive.

Presenter27:37

There was your very strong connection to your past and to your upbringing and how straightforward it was. Here you are now, and that connection's lost. Was that maybe also part of the disorientation of thinking that I'm not don't feel rooted any more in the world?

Speaker 327:40

Do you

Rankin27:40

Yeah.

Speaker 327:42

Memories

Rankin27:50

Yeah, don't feel rooted, and I do need to kind of find myself and also to kind of get to grips with what you're going to leave behind and.

Rankin27:59

I wanted to dedicate something to my parents and I built a building and I named it after my parents, but it didn't feel enough, so the show is, I guess, a memory of them really.

Presenter28:09

Let's have some more music then. What are we going to hear now?

Rankin28:11

Uh

Rankin28:11

This is a song by the Kinks called Plastic Man in it. It kind of feels a bit like my life sometimes, but it's very much a favorite of my son and I. We think that um he's the best songwriter in the world and we listen to him together a lot, so it's a song for Lyle.

Speaker 328:27

Plastic bag, colour grain Plastic band don't feel no pain Plastic people look the same

Speaker 328:38

Kiss shitting out chillin' space Putin is names all over the place You got this big out for disgrace Last day

Presenter28:55

That was Plastic Man from the Kinks, a shared passion with uh your son Lyle and yourself, frankly.

Rankin28:59

Yeah, I love that song and he's a brilliant musician, my son.

Rankin29:03

And um he played at our wedding.

Presenter29:05

You're keen on dogs. You're a dog.

Rankin29:06

Yeah, I've got three dogs. What have you got? I've got a little Jack Russell, a whippet and a lurcher.

Presenter29:12

They come into the studio.

Rankin29:13

Do we

Presenter29:13

Yeah.

Rankin29:13

Yeah. They do and they don't because two of them are rescue dogs, so they're always hunting around for food and there's always food around, so it's a bit of a nightmare. But yeah, they're there because I live upstairs from the studio sk

Presenter29:24

You live upstairs from the studio.

Rankin29:24

What is that?

Rankin29:29

It's a bit of both. My commute is a minute and

Rankin29:33

That gives me Ino maybe another hour a day.

Presenter29:35

As somebody with a highly tuned aesthetic sense then, is there a jumble of family portraits around is your work lying under the sofa, or are you very controlled in your environment?

Rankin29:45

Oh no, I'm very controlled. It's like a gallery. But none of my works on the wall. I've got one one of my own pictures on the wall. Which one? I do this thing called an eye skate, which is a very, very close up shot of an eye, and they're printed really big. They're just very beautiful.

Presenter29:55

Very close.

Presenter29:59

So if your house, the interior of your home, is like a gallery, if Tullie comes in with a really beautiful little cushion that she bought on the High Street and says, Can I just put it down?

Rankin30:02

Yeah.

Presenter30:09

Would that happen?

Rankin30:09

Yeah, I mean she's got her own room in the house, so she does her own thing in that room, and we've always had an agreement that

Presenter30:13

Right.

Rankin30:18

If we do buy another house that it's hers and

Presenter30:20

You see, you almost made that sound normal there. She's got her own room in the house. I mean, it is her

Rankin30:23

It is her house too.

Presenter30:24

Yeah, it's

Rankin30:24

Yeah, it's her house too, but I'd help the architect design the whole building. So the studio and the office are there and then the flats there on top.

Presenter30:33

Are you photographing the world all the time in your mind's eye?

Rankin30:36

Mind, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's one of the reasons that I kind of want to live in that kind of space. Yeah, there's so much light in it.

Presenter30:40

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

Presenter30:43

Does reality often feel like a disappointment? Would you much rather be living in

Rankin30:46

Living in a photograph.

Presenter30:46

Yeah.

Rankin30:47

No, I think that actually it's a good metaphor to the house in a sense because, you know, if you look underneath the carpet, it's going a bit yellow and nothing's really perfect. It just has this feeling of perfection as you walk into it. And I think it's like my photographs, you know, if you look beneath the gloss, there's something a bit dirty and something a bit honest underneath it all, so it scrubs up well maybe.

Presenter31:10

I imagine you will have imagined your island. But I'm going to cast you away too. What does your island look like?

Rankin31:14

I have I've always wanted to retire to a Scottish island. But mine no, mine is a a tropical island and it's quite large. I actually sometimes think I could love to go to an island and kind of sort out my head a little bit for a few months because I think it would be really good for me and

Rankin31:33

And my work would probably have a bit more depth, you know, if I had a chance to do that.

Presenter31:37

It's time for your final piece, Rankin. What are we gonna hear?

Rankin31:40

Well, I thought this was apt, this N Credit song, and I just love Plan B, who sings on it, Bendrew, and the band Chasin' Status, I think are a genius and N credits just felt right.

Speaker 331:53

The blood dries in my veins and my heart feels no more pain I know I'll be on my way to heaven's door

Speaker 332:05

No no no.

Speaker 332:08

Uh no more job.

Speaker 332:10

Or I will lie.

Speaker 332:15

I know when I'm done.

Speaker 332:19

And I don't drive to a place where I will run like people

Presenter32:25

Chase and status and end credits. So it's time to give you the books now. You get the complete works of Shakespeare and the Bible, Rankin, and you get to take a book of your own. What would you like to take?

Rankin32:35

I don't want to sound egotistical, but I'd probably take the book that I'd made with my wife because at least she'd be there.

Presenter32:41

What a nice thought That book is yours then, and a luxury too.

Rankin32:45

I would love, and I'm not allowed to do this, to take a location vehicle from a shoot because you have absolutely everything on a location vehicle, but given the rules, there's a sculpture by Bernini that I saw in the Villa Borghese called Pluto and Persephone. It's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my entire life and it really kind of inspires me. So I think I'll have that.

Presenter33:09

What a joy that is your luxury and also, we must ask you for the track you would save from the waves.

Rankin33:14

God, I haven't even thought of that.

Presenter33:15

Well go on now

Rankin33:16

Yeah.

Rankin33:17

Um, probably the magic numbers, Morning's Eleven, just because it's my song with my wife and she's definitely the person that I would miss the most.

Presenter33:28

Okay, it's yours. Rankin, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter33:42

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio4.