Jonathan Agnew

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

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For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter1:03

My castaway this week is the cricket commentator Jonathan Agnew.

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Known simply as Aggers to the army of fans devoted to Test Match Special, his charm, knowledge, and ready wit have gained him a place in the heart of any one who loves the game.

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His own infatuation with cricket began as a young boy at boarding school, and along with his talent and determination took him all the way to the top of the sport he played for Leicestershire and England.

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His transition from the crease to the commentary box was cemented by one of the most memorable moments in broadcasting history.

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The notorious leg over comment that prompted the legendary Brian Johnson to dissolve into helpless prolonged giggles live on air.

Presenter1:45

More of that later. He says the greatest thing about our job is that you have no preconceived idea about what's going to happen. You have no script. The cricket is the script. So, Jonathan, to people listening who may be not that familiar with Test Match Special, of course everybody's heard of it, but not everybody listens. How would you describe it?

Jonathan Agnew2:06

We turn up for work every morning, not knowing what's going to happen. And that is the real joy of the job. You sit on a commuter train sometimes and you see people with their earphones plugged in and in a sort of a zombified world. They know what's going to happen. They're going to turn their computer on. They'll sit there for seven hours and then catch the same train back again that they've caught every evening for the last 20 years. But at a cricket match, you don't know what's going to happen. And you turn up with friends, colleagues, people that you've worked with for a long time, with great anticipation, with 20,000 people outside.

Presenter2:26

Is that

Speaker 42:26

Uh

Presenter2:26

That was gonna happen.

Jonathan Agnew2:34

And it's just a real tr

Presenter2:36

You do get some fascinating people into the commentary box, just looking in the last few years who you've had. Elton John's been in there, you've had Lily Allen has also been in there. They're all people who love cricket, yes.

Jonathan Agnew2:44

There

Jonathan Agnew2:46

They are. Yes. Cricket is in at the moment. It's fantastic. I'm very lucky. Archbishop Tutu turned up, completely unannounced, and my producer literally wrote a bit of paper with T-U, T-U and an arrow to my left. And I looked down and there was with all his gear on and smiling at a wonderful smile, Desmond Tutu. Something like Lily. That was TMS going into new territory, really. But she was great, and what a character. Next day was Daniel Radcliffe. I mean, these people come and go. And it keeps on your toes, doesn't it? As a broadcaster.

Presenter3:14

You've been uh commentating now for over twenty years. What have been the particular one high, one low that you can remember that have stood out?

Jonathan Agnew3:21

Well, winning the Ashes in 2005, the first time that I had seen that, I was part of the squad that won the Ashes in 1985. My nought for 90 played a massive part in that, and I was dropped immediately afterwards. Lowe's, I think about six years before that, when England really plunged to the bottom of the heap. And I remember NASA Hussain, the new captain, being booed at the Oval by the small crowd that remained to see England being beaten by New Zealand. That was bad.

Presenter3:45

So, Jonathan, I knew it's time to get to the music then. Tell me about the first thing we're going to hear this morning. What is it and why have you chosen it?

Jonathan Agnew3:50

Well, I am going to take us back in a way to 2005 because my day and my match starts with this. It's Jerusalem. It's sung by Sean Rouan. And I'm out there with 20,000 people all around us, live, talking at the start of a test match. Players run past me, the fielders first, you can even hear their spikes on the concrete steps. And then the bats from come out and the sun's shining, it's green grass, everyone's happy, everyone's up for the start of this. And I just think this is a fantastic anthem.

Speaker 24:16

He was fate in ancient times, Walk upon England's mountains.

Speaker 24:29

And was the holy love of God on England's pleasant fashion.

Speaker 24:41

And did the count elements divine?

Speaker 24:57

God's home building here.

Speaker 25:02

Come on those dogs at timing.

Presenter5:17

Jerusalem, sung by Sean Rouan from the E. C. B. Ashes music album. So, Jonathan Agnew, as I said in the introduction there, you're in that very interesting position as a commentator. You're somebody who has played both at county level and for your country, and that gives you

Presenter5:32

An enormous understanding as a commentator about not just obviously the complexities, the technical understanding of the game, but the emotions that go with it too.

Jonathan Agnew5:40

Well I hope so. I mean there's quite an interesting debate at the moment about commentators and and too many coming from that sort of a background. I think that's more of a television debate. I mean I'm the only radio commentator I think ever to have played well Test cricket certainly. I'd like to think that actually most people now aren't aware that I ever played. I mean honestly I haven't I haven't bowled the ball for twenty years.

Presenter6:00

Can we talk for a moment about cake?

Presenter6:03

Uh

Jonathan Agnew6:03

Yeah.

Presenter6:03

Yes. The importance of cake in all of this.

Jonathan Agnew6:05

Yes, it opened it up for me. Well and cake's making a comeback, which is important. Because when Brian Johnston died, and he really introduced Cake, he introduced conversation, he made the programme what it is today, away really from the strict cricket commentary, if you like. He opened it up to everybody, including women, and therefore cake.

Presenter6:24

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew6:24

Yes. The two do tend to go together, I think. We do have some mail bakers.

Presenter6:27

I'll let that one go.

Jonathan Agnew6:28

But we're they're they're generally wi women who do bake for us. But when he died, you see, I I felt very uncomfortable about talking about cake, because it was his thing. So I I didn't for a while.

Presenter6:36

Nice.

Jonathan Agnew6:38

Quite deliberately, until again, people saw me saying, Hang on a minute, I sent you a cake last month. Did you have to say thank you? Did you not get it? Or it's a bit rude of you. So I slowly reintroduced cake to the menu, if you like, of TMS. And now, of course, inevitably, you mentioned cake, you get more and more cakes, and you get sponsored cakes, you get homemade cakes, you get all sorts of corporate cakes, and you get my friends from Sky TV coming in, both of them will come in and grab a handful of cake and the others. And it's just part of the day.

Presenter6:52

Okay.

Presenter7:03

And your world wide audience. Do you know roughly how many people listen?

Jonathan Agnew7:06

No, I mean millions. One match we did in a World Cup once, I mean it was tens of millions because it was India and Pakistan were doing a World Cup and but that doesn't matter, does it? You it doesn't matter how many you're talking to. The only time I feel not nervous

Jonathan Agnew7:19

I feel excited is that first day of of a series, and an Ashes series particularly. That was when I'll feel I feel a tingle rather than nervousness. You you can't you can't broadcast nervous, can you?

Presenter7:29

Now, let's have some more music. What's your second track of the morning?

Jonathan Agnew7:32

Well, I'm going back here a bit to 1976 when this particular song was number one. And as a 16-year-old,

Jonathan Agnew7:39

Public schoolboy, farmer's son from Lincolnshire. My dad took me for my birthday down to a very famous coaching clinic, run by Alf Gover, who was an Old England cricketer, above a garage in Wandsworth. And he liked what he saw, and he said to my dad I want him to come down to the Oval and have a trial, which I did. And the Oval liked what they saw at Surrey, and so they said we want him to come down to the school holidays, which I did. So, you know, seventy six.

Jonathan Agnew8:02

Big year of cricket. The West Indies over. England's captain, a hugely charismatic man, one of my heroes, was Tony Gregg.

Jonathan Agnew8:09

South African Origin, who announced at the start of this series that he was going to make the West Indies grovel. And this was the match at the Oval, uh, parch brown, it was a very hot summer, where Ignore getting a hiding, and I was there to watch.

Jonathan Agnew8:22

Tony get down on his hands and knees and grovel because England were being thrashed. He did it in front of the West Indian supporters. It's a pivotal moment. Really, people are still writing books about this moment. And this is a wonderful example of what happens in my life, where these people who were heroes as a child become friends. Because thirty years later, Tony and me and our wives

Jonathan Agnew8:41

Went to Mamma Mia.

Jonathan Agnew8:43

And I've just got this wonderful memory of of Tony dancing. He's a huge man.

Jonathan Agnew8:47

Rather wildly in the aisles to Dancing Queen, and of course Tony died just uh in the New Year.

Speaker 28:55

Uh

Speaker 28:56

Dancing Queen, young and sweet, only seventeen Dancing Queen, feel the

Speaker 29:09

From the channel.

Presenter9:27

That was Abba and Dancing Queen. So, Jonathan, you were born in 1960. You were born in Cheshire, actually, but moved to Lincolnshire.

Jonathan Agnew9:32

Infinite.

Presenter9:33

The eldest of three. What what are your earliest memories?

Jonathan Agnew9:36

Well my dad was a farmer as I mentioned and he he ran a poultry farm on about 200 acres of land and they were free-range he was he was quite cutting edge my dad that's probably the only thing he's ever actually been cutting edge at if I'm honest with you because he what he did he he had these free-range turkeys mainly but chickens and geese and guinea fowl which always made a terrible noise and he would have these open sales to the public so that you'd have three sales at Christmas and maybe two at Easter and people would phone up and book and they would turn up and they would simply they would go off with their turkey for Christmas or whatever it was out of one of our sheds. And so school holidays, it was awful. I used to hate Christmas holidays from school. You'd be looking forward to getting home anyway. And you'd just spend your time plucking. So

Presenter10:16

So did he expect you to go into the business?

Jonathan Agnew10:19

No, I d I don't think he did. I remember when I announced I wanted to be a cricketer, this is around about seventy six, he sat me down and said, Are you absolutely sure about this?

Presenter10:19

Uh

Jonathan Agnew10:27

And I said yes, and again, you know, he he took a huge chance, because he had invested in my education, and Dad played it absolutely right, really always there in the background, always calmly just encouraging. I have seen many times parents make a real mess, really, of their sons' and daughters' sport, usually through over enthusiasm.

Jonathan Agnew10:46

But sometimes through negativity too, not giving their child that freedom, that opportunity to go and do it. And you were sent away to school at eight. Was it that was fine, was it? Uh I'm not sure. Uh I think it was it was tough for my parents. I don't think I think it was the done thing, that's how they explain it now, in in those days. They must have found it pretty hard. I got on with it. I I didn't find it too bad. And you know, if you liked sport, you liked music and you readily made friends, and actually boarding school w was was was brilliant, but it wasn't very nice being away from home.

Presenter11:12

Let's have some more music. You're third. What are we gonna hear?

Jonathan Agnew11:14

Well, yeah, well see while at school I was a music scholar and most people put their, I don't know, the flute or the piano or something, but I was actually a music scholar through playing the tuba and that big brass thing that you lug around with heavy things and polishing. The brasso was always out but also someone had to play the tuber. I would much rather have played the saxophone. I've always wanted to play the saxophone. It's a raunchy, passionate, wonderful, expressive instrument. And I love John Halliwell's saxophone playing in Supertrap. So I tracked him down. I so wanted him to come on and play saxophone on Test Match Special and I managed after weeks to find him.

Presenter11:24

Sanguine

Jonathan Agnew11:48

I sent him an email, I said, John, please come on, bring a saxophone and he said, um he said, No, I hate cricket, he said, I don't I don't know what to do with cricket but I was at school with someone who I think became rather good, and he said the name.

Jonathan Agnew12:00

Peter Lever.

Jonathan Agnew12:02

Who was my childhood hero? He was the man I saw at age eleven.

Jonathan Agnew12:07

bowling at the speed of light at Lourdes, a wonderful long run, flowing hair, really good looking bloke. And I said to my Dad, That's who I want to be. And so that's again a funny little connection, isn't it, with with John Heliwell. And I'd love to play the saxophone like this.

Presenter12:54

That was Super Tramp and my kind of lady. So, Jonathan Agnew, just very briefly, I want to ask you about school, because when somebody is very, very good at a particular sport at school, it does give them a status. Did you have a kind of elevated status at school? Well, I did in summertime.

Jonathan Agnew13:07

Did you

Jonathan Agnew13:08

When I could exact revenge on those who perhaps have been a little bit mean to me on the rugby field. Because I mean, I bowled faster than most schoolboys would see. And of course, the teachers as well. The annual teachers' match, that was great fun. I'll be very popular then. You know, Mr. So-and-so put me in detention last week, sought him out. So he'll get my match.

Presenter13:26

Exacting revenge. So, bowling, fast bowling in a way that clearly, I mean, those wouldn't be the days when people were wearing helmets. No, no, no.

Jonathan Agnew13:33

Oh, you know what? No, no, no. I mean, oh, you hit I hit people. And what's the problem?

Presenter13:38

What sort of damage did you do? Break a nose, break a cheekbook, yeah? Absolutely.

Jonathan Agnew13:40

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I think people will be a bit surprised at how competitive I am, you know, to h hear you chatting on the radio quite happily and and and burbling away. But you don't play professional sport without being very competitive. I don't like losing. I cheat at monopoly. Um even in those days, at sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, with a ball in your hand, you know, you you were dangerous. You were suddenly you were a bit puffed up and you could hurt people.

Presenter13:58

Mm-hmm.

Presenter14:03

Yeah.

Presenter14:07

Yes, I can see the steel when you're talking about it, you see. You sort of change a bit because you're so affable. We can still be affable. Well, not when you're at what? When you're meeting out the sledging at the crease, you can't be that affable.

Jonathan Agnew14:09

Oh, is that a

Jonathan Agnew14:10

Because you're so

Jonathan Agnew14:11

We can still be affable and then

Jonathan Agnew14:15

Please, you can't be there, I forgot.

Presenter14:17

Just be specific about what the art of sledging involves.

Jonathan Agnew14:19

Well sledging sledging is actually a bowler usually trying to put the batsman off and get into his head. You as a batsman are out there with your mate who's twenty two yards away, and you are surrounded by eleven of the opposition.

Jonathan Agnew14:30

And you are very exposed. And so when those eleven people are actually jipping away and and getting at you and and so on at the same time, you know, it it's very psychological. I mean, I think probably ninety percent of cricket is played in the brain, because you have to overcome this, and you've got someone tearing in and throwing a ball at you at ninety miles an hour. It it is a it is a very tough sport.

Presenter14:48

So there you were then. Your your boyhood dream in essence came true. You you left school and you started to play cricket professionally, playing first of all briefly for Surrey and then on to Leicestershire during the seventies and eighties. And then you were called up to play for England. That was against was it the West Indies and Sri Lanka first of all?

Jonathan Agnew14:53

Okay.

Jonathan Agnew15:04

It's always disappointing looking back at my England career, because my stats are dreadful.

Jonathan Agnew15:08

Oh, and they are truly embarrassing. Um you know, I played three games.

Presenter15:13

Come on, you did get Viv Richards out for fifteen months.

Jonathan Agnew15:15

I did get 15 months. Yes, I did. And Gordon Grange. I got good people out, actually. I got four wickets, and they were all good uns.

Presenter15:19

Four kids and they were all

Jonathan Agnew15:21

The trouble is they were rather expensive.

Presenter15:23

What was the problem? You you obviously had great potential.

Jonathan Agnew15:26

Yeah, I think confidence probably. I think

Presenter15:27

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew15:29

When you play at that level, you need a bit more than I had in terms of self-belief.

Jonathan Agnew15:38

I was comfortable in the county circuit'cause I was you know, I was good at that. And and I was a better bowler later anyway, and I wish I wish I had played later. There was a nice little campaign that people ran to get me playing, but I think they looked at those figures. They thought, hmm, we're not going to risk another one. And that was why I retired at the age of thirty, which is pretty young.

Presenter15:43

I wish I o

Jonathan Agnew15:54

But I knew I wasn't going to play for England again.

Presenter15:56

Tell me now about your next piece then, Jonathan.

Jonathan Agnew15:57

Well, this is a late substitution. I mean, for goodness sake, Kirsty, how you choose eight pieces of music this is a late substitution of all things for Puccini. And this takes me back to those days at Leicestershire. And we'd go out to this not necessarily salubrious place called Charlie's Arms in Blaby in Leicestershire. And there in Charlie's was a one-eyed

Presenter16:02

Yes, sir.

Jonathan Agnew16:18

Red curly-haired Scottish DJ called Golly, who would play this as soon as he walked in. Actually, I often wonder what did happen to Golly.

Speaker 216:26

Always always here to stay. Always always are underway. And I would rather be anywhere else by you today.

Speaker 216:47

There was a check on Charlotte You didn't crack a smile But it's no laughing part

Presenter16:57

Oliver's Army from Elvis Castello. So, Jonathan Agnew, you left professional cricket and you decided that you were going to make a living as a journalist. You joined you've called them the Beastie Boys, which gives us a fair indication of what you thought of them when you joined them.

Jonathan Agnew17:07

Which gives

Presenter17:10

The tab

Jonathan Agnew17:10

Tabloid Press. Well, actually, I started life in the tabloids. And I'm glad that I did. Uh I wouldn't be sitting here now, I don't think, talking to you unless I was a tabloid hack for a while because it it just gave me that news sense. I mean I started at Radio Leicester before I finished cricket, so I had done some broadcasting. But the Today newspaper, they sent me off doing just about every sport imaginable. I mean skiing, surfing, Aussie rules, which is brilliant training. And it was difficult to start with because I was the first to retire and go and be a cricket correspondent. I mean others had retired and been written for newspapers, but not to take a journalist job effectively.

Presenter17:42

Their reception to you at the time was was cool to see.

Jonathan Agnew17:44

It was cool. And at the start of that tour, the big talking point really was Graham Gucci, who was the captain of England, and this Australian bowler called Terry Alderman, who just kept getting Gucci out in the last series. And that was the interview that everybody wanted, Terry Alderman. Of course, they didn't know him really, and I did. So I got hold of Terry and I said, Can I do a good interview with you? He said, Yeah, of course you can. He'd actually said no to all the others. So I sat down with him, he gave me a wonderful interview about how he's going to demolish poor old Gucci again. Manor from Heaven for Tabloid Press.

Jonathan Agnew18:15

And I thought, well, I've I can either keep it to myself, run my first ever exclusive for the Today newspaper, or I share it round.

Jonathan Agnew18:23

Which is what I did, and so that was how I got into the tabloid fold. And they taught me an awful lot, and and without having had that experience, there's no way I would have become BBC Cricket correspondent.

Presenter18:32

And you were with the Today newspaper for about a year when you then joined the team for a Test Match special. Just take me through who you were joining.

Jonathan Agnew18:40

Well, I mean th the team of the time, headed by Brian Johnston, Christopher Martin Jenkins. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people who aren't with us anymore. Fred Truman, Trevor Bailey, Bill Frindle.

Presenter18:42

The header.

Presenter18:46

Point.

Jonathan Agnew18:50

Just the great names of broadcasting. I mean, I'd never commentated on anything.

Jonathan Agnew18:55

And I slightly had to bluster my way through my interview for the job. And Peter Baxter, the producer, then, decided, right, you're not going to commentate. We'll have you as as an expert summariser. And what it did i it it meant that I could sit next door predominantly to Brian.

Jonathan Agnew19:09

And just watch and listen to how he worked, how he reached out, how he could communicate with people. Get the pace, when to try and be funny, when to be serious, when to take the mickey out of somebody, when to focus on what's happening. All of those things Brian instilled in me.

Presenter19:24

So tell me about what we're going to hear next.

Jonathan Agnew19:26

Well well, inevitably. I mean I couldn't I could not go to Desert Island and and not have the leg over. It established me on that programme. Because I was following Chris, who had been there for years. And pe pe particularly radio listeners don't like change. But back we go, I guess, to the Oval in 1991, and Bad Light had stopped play. And Ian Botham was back in the side, when there'd been lots of Ian Botham stuff in the press.

Jonathan Agnew19:51

A bit of breaking beds and that sort of stuff. And so I think Brian, you see, had got this in his mind when this business of Botham not getting his leg over first came out. I didn't think of that line. It was a friend of mine at the Sun who slipped it to me just as Ian did get out. He said, oh, I know what our headline will be tomorrow. He said, Ian Botham cocks it up by not getting his leg over. And I have a chuckle, but it's stuck in the mind. And when you hear it, there's a pause of about a second and a half, which on radio is quite a long time. And dear old Brian looked as if he'd been a right hook in the face. I mean, I can see him now. And, you know, millions of people have heard this, but it's still such a personal memory for me. I can see him sitting here beside me, and I can see the tears pouring down his face and how red he had gone and how he just collapsed. And when you do listen to it, and you hear this squeaking and the wheezing, and the thing grips you, you cannot help but laugh. But at the time, I really remember halfway through this thinking, oh, and my stomach began to tighten.

Jonathan Agnew20:46

But by then it was too late, because Jonas had gone.

Jonathan Agnew20:49

And you try talking when you're corpsing, and it's impossible, isn't it? Impossible.

Speaker 420:54

Both of them in the end out most extraordinary way.

Jonathan Agnew20:56

He knew, this is the tragic thing about it, he knew exactly what was going to happen. He tried to step over the stumps and just flipped a bail with his right f ⁇.

Speaker 421:03

Mollish tried to do the splits over it and unfortunately the inner part of his thigh must have just removed the bale. He just didn't quite go his leg over. Anyhow, he did very well indeed, batting 131 minutes and hit three fours. And then we had Lewis playing extremely well for his 47 not out. Agas do stop him. And he was joined by DeFreitus, who was in for 40 minutes, a useful little part ship there. They put on 35 in 40 minutes and then he was caught by Dujan Fawche. Lawrence, always entertaining, batting for 35.

Speaker 421:41

Fuck.

Speaker 421:43

Thirty-five minutes hit a four of the weekkeepers.

Speaker 421:49

Meggers, for goodness sake, drop it.

Speaker 421:52

In f

Jonathan Agnew21:54

There's Lawrence.

Presenter21:55

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew21:56

Uh

Speaker 221:57

Yeah.

Presenter21:57

Yeah.

Speaker 221:57

Uh

Presenter21:57

Yeah.

Presenter21:59

That was a leg over clip with Brian Johnson. It doesn't matter how many times you hear it.

Jonathan Agnew22:03

And I have heard it millions and millions of times. As I said earlier, so many people have heard it, but that is, I can see it, I can hear it, I can hear Peter Baxter stomping up and saying, well, somebody say something through gritted teeth. And the aggressors do stop it comes from really the bottom of his heart. Oh, yes, and that's public school. He's trying to dodge me in, wasn't he? I mean, I was just laughing, and he was trying to shift the blame. And actually, I mean, I have to be honest with you, went on off-air shortly after that.

Presenter22:06

Yeah.

Presenter22:16

And the actors do stop

Jonathan Agnew22:29

And Brian didn't think it was funny at all. I can still see him stomping off, shaking his head. What did he think it was unprofessional? Unprofessional. He let the side down, that it sounded terrible. Did he all.

Presenter22:33

What did he think it was unprofessional?

Presenter22:37

Did he also think that you'd let the side down? Did he think you'd go?

Jonathan Agnew22:39

Did he think you'd gone too far? But I f I assumed that's what he felt. And in my first year, I mean, you don't do that to the the main man, do you? So then what happened the next morning. I remember turning up for the Today programme.

Presenter22:48

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew22:52

Anxious.

Jonathan Agnew22:53

And Gary Richardson played it. It was the first time I'd heard it. And John has arrived um that morning, and I thought I'm gonna do this. And a lot of letters had come already.

Jonathan Agnew23:02

So I said, Come on, we're going to go downstairs and listen to it, Brian. I've heard it, it's brilliant. You'll laugh. And he did. He came down, he went to the engineer's room, opened the door, and they were already sort of franking copies off. I mean, they knew they were on to a good thing. So he sat down, he played it, and of course he loved it, and that was it. But he would not work with me again because he just said, if I have eye contact with him, we're just going to laugh at him.

Presenter23:21

And so when you got back together after that year, how did it was it smooth sailing?

Jonathan Agnew23:23

Was it smooth sailing? No, we had a letters section. The only problem with this was that you never actually read them first. And this was our first coming together again. So down came this letter in front of me and I read it out. A perfectly sensible letter. You know, dear gents, why do you have to have an appeals procedure in cricket? And I got to yours sincerely, and I looked at the name and I thought, oh no. Again, I felt this awful corpse. And I said, John, I said it's from Berkshire.

Jonathan Agnew23:49

And he said, Well, oh, give it here, he says, which is fatal, because everyone knew that he had it.

Jonathan Agnew23:54

And it was from William H. Titt.

Jonathan Agnew23:56

Which John has had a go at it. And he had to be led off air. Again, there's awful squeaking and wheezing. He wrote to Mr. Tit and he said, I'm very sorry for having laughed at your name, Mr. Tit, but these things happen. And he never got a reply, unfortunately. I mean, it is ludicrously schoolboy. Ludicrously. But that's the programme. You can get away with it on that programme. People love all that. I couldn't do it now. No. I'm probably too grown up for it now, supposedly. But also, he was the right person to do it, too. And he loved it, really.

Presenter24:13

Schoolboy.

Presenter24:20

No.

Presenter24:24

Uh

Presenter24:25

Well, I have a very puerile sense of humour, and I could talk about this sort of thing all day, but I must be aware that not everybody listening does. And there are, of course, some serious areas of cricket that we must cover. One of them I'm thinking about is ball tampering, corruption. When you're watching a match,

Jonathan Agnew24:29

Must be a witch.

Jonathan Agnew24:30

No.

Jonathan Agnew24:36

Corruption.

Presenter24:39

And something doesn't quite seem right to you. What do you do? What do you say? How do you address it?

Jonathan Agnew24:42

What do you

Jonathan Agnew24:44

Well I think each time that it happens you get more confident about saying or doing something but you can't say someone's cheating. You can say as happened with the Pakistanis at Lourdes and the bowling of those nobles which I'm sure a lot of people have seen that they were so obviously done that I would know that a bowler wouldn't let the ball go from there because you're just giving the opposition a run. So you're able to say on the air then, look at this, you know, this is this is a bit strange. But what I have done and I'm pleased about this is I went to the International Cricket Council people and said, look, we're watching every ball that's bowled. We can't say it on air, but at least give us a number that we can ring. Because they do have these people there who watch the games, but they're policemen, really. They're not cricketers. So as soon as integrity of sport is damaged, that's the end of the sport.

Jonathan Agnew25:26

Why pay any money to see something that is dodgy, or you think even might remotely be dodgy? But I will always speak my mind, and that doesn't necessarily make you popular. I mean, when you work for the B B C you you do have to be fair. I mean, if you are a Twitter follower of mine and you ever say or suggest that I'm anything but fair

Jonathan Agnew25:44

You're gone, you're blocked. Because again, that was rammed home by my dad all those years ago. You you are fair. That's the most important thing about life. Even if it's going against England or someone who I know and like.

Jonathan Agnew25:57

You just gotta say it because in the end it's your integrity, isn't it? And when you're doing this sort of job, that's important.

Presenter26:03

Time for some music, Jonathan. What's next?

Jonathan Agnew26:05

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew26:06

Well, look, everyone has one, don't they? And this is Emerson My Song. Um

Jonathan Agnew26:10

Uh Emma is my second wife, and and when we did get together

Jonathan Agnew26:14

I wasn't in a mess, that bit of exaggeration. But but I my life was lacking in in direction really, and she really got my life back on track again. And one of the first things that we did when we got together was go and see Rod Stewart. It was a lovely night, uh and he sang our song

Speaker 226:30

Have I told you lately that I love you?

Speaker 226:36

Have I told you there's no one else above you?

Speaker 226:44

Fill my heart with gladness.

Speaker 226:48

Take away all my sadness.

Speaker 226:51

Here's my troubles, that's what you do.

Presenter26:57

That was Rose Stewart singing Have I Told You Lately? And I'm sure Jonathan Agnew, especially at the little couplet that said, There's a love that's divine and it's yours and it's mine. I saw you go all misty-eyed there. Did I? You did a bit.

Jonathan Agnew27:07

It's a lovely song. Emma has has really made my life. And a lot of those lyrics went true.

Presenter27:07

Yeah.

Presenter27:12

You wrote a very I thought a very affecting article back in two thousand two. You'll remember it was the time that Graham Thorpe was himself having problems and he was having to leave the test tour and then came back and left again. You wrote a piece in the Evening Standard and you talked about how difficult

Presenter27:27

Touring can be because of course they have these long touring periods, you know, all the way through Christmas, all those family times. And you said that you had found it, in your first marriage and with two young daughters, difficult to form a relationship with them. You said that your job had made it impossible.

Jonathan Agnew27:44

That and and the failure of the marriage, yes. Um th there are a lot of failed marriages in in in what we do, unfortunately, because of those reasons that you mentioned. Um

Presenter27:46

Yeah.

Presenter27:53

Is it because I mean, apart from obviously there is the problem of of being away and the amount of time, but also I suppose for families

Presenter28:00

The idea that that somebody is choosing this.

Jonathan Agnew28:02

You're choosing your cricket. That that was the point. And I think that my my first wife, when I gave up cricket, I think she imagined that I'd be around and sell insurance or or something, you know. Um but I c I could never have done that.

Presenter28:11

Awesome.

Jonathan Agnew28:15

And yes, my relationship with my kids is is sort of the one sad area really of of my life. You know, divorce is something that I think children feel particularly hard. And what's sad about a lot of divorces, and certainly of my my divorce I think, was

Jonathan Agnew28:35

That absent fathers, and by those I mean fathers not who've disappeared, but fathers who actually want to play a part in their children's lives but don't live there, they have a pretty tough time, you know. Oh, they can do. Equally, so can mothers who've got the children and the father has gone off. And I just really wanted to sort of stand up for some of these men who really do want to play a part in their children's lives. And the parents must be responsible in ensuring that the kids do get the best of both parents. And what Emma and I really tried hard to do, and her ex-husband, because she was also divorced.

Presenter29:07

Yes, because then you became a stepfather.

Jonathan Agnew29:08

The stepfather, which is a huge challenge, actually. Yes. And one that I've really enjoyed. But we absolutely made the conscious effort that he would have a proper relationship with his kids, that we would encourage it. So he came to Sunday lunches. He came on holiday with us. People thought it was a bit weird. Yeah, and there are times when it's difficult to see your wife's ex-husband sitting next door to each other chatting away. Similarly for him, it must have been horrible for him to have seen his ex-wife and her new husband tucked up. So it really was a massive effort for the three of us to do it. And I know that the kids really respected that. They thought it was great that we were going on holiday together. It didn't matter to them. It was only a few funny people who said, oh, that's a bit strange. So, I mean, I'm really proud of the step-parenting bit. I've got a really good relationship with Charlotte and Thomas. And I hate seeing.

Presenter29:11

Yes.

Jonathan Agnew29:57

kids uh the door opens and they're pushed down the garden path and the car door opens and they're bundled in and driven off. And that that's that's not the way um that kids should be treated in a in a in a broken marriage.

Presenter30:00

Yeah.

Presenter30:09

Let's have some more music then, Jonathan. What are we going to hear now?

Jonathan Agnew30:11

Well we're going to hear someone who's playing this rather better um th than I did. Uh I mentioned my music uh uh than the tuber, but I also play the piano, which I love. And this was my main party piece I suppose. Um I'm I'm I'm slightly annoyed now. I've got this silly thing called Dupitron's contracture. It's when your fingers curl in. So reaching the octave is actually a bit of a problem these days.

Presenter30:29

So, reaching the octave is actually a bit of a problem these days. Slightly clawed, you're pressing.

Jonathan Agnew30:32

Claude, you're playing. But I can just about still play this, but my word, I've played this thousands of times.

Presenter31:38

That was Daniel Baremboim with Beethoven's sonata No. Eight, the Platetique, and it was the Adagio cantable we heard there. Um so, Jonathan, would it be fair to say I mean, it's always easy on radio, isn't it? We can read all sorts of relationships into oh, he doesn't get on with her and she doesn't like him.

Presenter31:53

You and Jeffrey Boycott. How how is that really? Because, you know, there's a bit of Archie Party now and again between you.

Jonathan Agnew31:57

Oh, there he is. Geoffrey is I mean people always wonder how we got on. We are the odd couple, no doubt about that. But we are really good mates. And I know that he's not good mates with everybody. He and I I don't think have ever had a cross word. I mean he's he's not an easy customer. He's twenty years older than me. He's very forthright. He's very blunt. But we both have great respect for each other. Actually we first did as cricketers. He was still playing when I first started. He he knows the value of a boycott comment. He knows the headlines it'll make. He loves cricket with a passion.

Presenter32:05

And I know that

Speaker 232:07

Maybe

Presenter32:20

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew32:29

Um

Jonathan Agnew32:30

He's just a bit odd sometimes.

Jonathan Agnew32:33

Which I don't I don't mind telling him. But um, you know, I dig these bear pits. The great thing is, he comes in, you'll hear him door slams, Get the rubbish off, I'm coming on and I'll have dug this bear trap while he's been out of the room. All the listeners know it's coming. So he sits down beside me, and I'll feed him the line, and whoosh down he goes to great delight.

Presenter32:51

How terribly unkind. And what about um I mean, we know about your your close family, but your your parents still they th what have they made of this career?

Jonathan Agnew32:58

Oh, I think they're delighted. I mean, for dad, cricket was his passion. And so for him to have somebody in involved in the game, you know, really proud of that. Because it started with him in the garden, you know, with the tennis ball on his beloved lawn. And of course, I'd dig it up. And my brother Chris, you know, I'd sort of pin him against the wall in the garage and bowl at him in there at a terrifying pace. We just played and played and played. So, you know, cricket has been very much part of our family. So, yeah, I mean, they'll be very pleased that I've got to doing what I'm doing.

Presenter33:28

Tell me about your final choice then, Jonathan.

Jonathan Agnew33:30

Well, do you know, I meet some great people. I I love the guests that we have. And and this one, I mean, you cannot be my age in in fifties and not have Elton John as having been an ever present in your life. Love is music. And I was amazed, I mean I did interview him, I went to him before a concert and I interviewed him for a view from the boundary slot on his piano stool. And he's amazed me about his cricket knowledge. And he started chatting about West Indies versus Zimbabwe on television the day before. He said, did you see that fast bowler from Zimbabwe? No. Sorry, Elton, not Lisbon. But he was. He had this passion for cricket. And I love Elton John. And this is my favourite Elton John song.

Speaker 234:07

Although I search myself, it's always someone else that I see.

Speaker 234:15

I just allow the black man of your life

Speaker 234:21

To wander freely

Speaker 234:28

By losing everything

Speaker 234:32

It was like the sun going down on me

Presenter34:39

Uh

Jonathan Agnew34:39

That was your good meet.

Presenter34:40

Yeah.

Jonathan Agnew34:40

Yeah.

Presenter34:41

Uh

Jonathan Agnew34:41

I never thought he'd a big cricket fan, but of course he was on the front cover of one of his albums wearing cricket whites but with pink shoes, it was a bit unusual.

Presenter34:46

Indeed.

Presenter34:48

That was Don't Let the Sun Go Down On Me. So it's time, Jonathan, for me to give you the books. I give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. And what else are you going to read?

Jonathan Agnew34:53

And the

Jonathan Agnew34:54

Yeah. And what else are you going to be doing? Well, look, the book that's had the biggest impact on my life is called The City of Joy by Dominique Lepierre. Wonderful book about life in Calcutta. And it's the most extraordinary city, how people survive there, many utterly destitute. And this book is told through the eyes of a Rickshaw Puller who goes out there and he lives with his family on the streets. The message really being that even if life is utterly awful, you have nothing.

Jonathan Agnew35:23

It's still worth living.

Jonathan Agnew35:24

There is still happiness to be found.

Presenter35:26

Right, that's your book then, and of course you're allowed a luxury.

Jonathan Agnew35:29

I do always take a luxury with me, which is a jar of Marmite. I always take that on tours. I'm not going to tell that. The only time really that I completely switch off is when I'm mowing my lawn. I always have to mow before I go on a test match, because that's a week. And I sit on my ride-on mower with my dog messing around beside me, and I think about what I'm going to talk about, and I just sit there. So I don't know if there is any grass on my desert island, but if there is, it'll be perfectly manicured and beautifully striped.

Presenter35:54

It's yours with an endless supply of fuel. And if you had to save just one track, which would it be?

Jonathan Agnew35:59

That would be wrong.

Presenter35:59

What's

Jonathan Agnew36:00

Dead.

Jonathan Agnew36:01

You knew that, didn't you?

Presenter36:01

I sort of did. Jonathan Agne, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island is.

Jonathan Agnew36:03

Thank you.

Jonathan Agnew36:05

It's a pleasure. What fun?

Presenter36:40

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter36:42

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4