Hilary Devey

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the businesswoman Hilary De Vay, the very incarnation of the entrepreneurial spirit. She's built from scratch a haulage business with almost eight thousand employees and an annual turnover of a hundred million pounds.

Presenter0:49

The T V show Dragon's Den has made her a star, but the real drama of her life has happened off camera. Married and divorced three times, her only child has battled heroin addiction, and she herself fought back from a severe stroke that nearly killed her. All this, and she still has time to look like she's walked straight off the set of Dynasty. Blood-red nails, killer shoulder pads, and enough bling to make Alexis Carrington fume with jealousy. She says that people say you have to be ruthless to succeed in business, but I think that's rubbish. Well, Hilary, you don't exactly come across as a soft-hearted walkover yourself. You have to be pretty tough.

Hilary Devey1:25

No, I think what I've learned to do over the years is to take the compassion out of business decisions and then put compassion back in once I've made them.

Presenter1:33

Rice.

Hilary Devey1:34

I don't believe you have to be ruthless to get to the top. I think you've got to be understanding, be empathetic, and it doesn't stop you having a heart and feeling sorry for people. But if you have to deliver bad news, then I'm sorry, you've got to deliver bad news.

Presenter1:48

And what about for you personally, uh the trappings of success, the six homes around the world, the the you know, the the beautiful jewellery. I imagine it's brought you a a degree of happiness, has it?

Hilary Devey1:58

Money certainly has not brought me happiness at all. In fact, the only real time in my life I've appreciated money is when I had a stroke and I needed twenty four hour care round the clock and I could afford to pay for it. That's when I appreciated the fact that I got money. When you think about it, everything's on loan to us. We're here for a given period of time. I believe in putting as much back as I possibly can. I want to leave a legacy, and I'd like that legacy to say she gave as much as she got.

Presenter2:32

You've won just about every business award going Entrepreneur of the Year, Business Woman of the Year. There must have been plenty sacrifices along the way to have done that one.

Hilary Devey2:39

Huge amount of sacrifices, and I don't think people realize that. My mother used to say to me, Have you heard about such a thing? or you know, and I'd say, No, she's a good God, Hilary Do you ever know what's going off in the outside world? And I didn't because I was so focused.

Presenter2:55

You once said there is no such thing as the glass ceiling. Now a lot of women will draw breath at that and find it difficult to imagine that's true.

Hilary Devey3:02

It's mythical, there is no glass ceiling, and a manicured fist will smash it just as easily as a male fist.

Presenter3:10

I mentioned in the introduction that this um horrific stroke you had. That was back in two thousand nine. That must have been a signal that your lifestyle in terms of you know the the stress and I don't know if you're still a smoker, but you were a smoker that

Hilary Devey3:22

I am a smell cat.

Presenter3:23

Still, are you

Hilary Devey3:24

Um Yeah.

Presenter3:24

Some fortune

Hilary Devey3:25

The doctors must be tearing their hair out at the house. And I guess I've never up until recently considered actually stopping. So I think over the next few months I will be testing my willpower.

Presenter3:37

There is a refusal among entrepreneurs to to face up to what most people would call reality. You know, they they do sort of battle on through. Do you think that was part of you refusing to face up?

Hilary Devey3:46

I think that's in my makeup to think tomorrow's another day. Tell me about your first piece of music then. Why have you chosen it? Well, my first piece of music is Thriller.

Hilary Devey3:56

And why do you like this? Because it was in the 80s, it was my era. I was foot loose, fancy free, I was stunning, I was blonde, I was tall, I was slim, I had the world at my feet, I was travelling with my job, I had a TR7 sports car with the Union Jack all over it, I was the girl of outtown.

Speaker 34:16

It's supposed to midnight, and something evil's lurking in the door.

Speaker 34:26

You see a step that almost touched your heart You try to scream But dare I take the sound before you make it

Speaker 34:38

You start to freeze And someone looks you right between the eyes

Speaker 34:44

Uh Your fairy slide

Presenter4:50

That was Michael Jackson and Thriller. So, Hilary Devere, you set up a haulage distribution business in 1996. Can you explain the idea behind Pallex, your company?

Hilary Devey4:59

Yeah.

Presenter4:59

Yeah.

Hilary Devey4:59

It's a very simple concept and simple business model. I had the idea of getting hauliers to collaborate and work together as a hauliers network.

Hilary Devey5:12

What concerned me was the amount of empty running miles on motorways, so i.e. HGV vehicles, a third full, a quarter full, a fifth full. So if I could fill them vehicles, what a metamorphosis this would be to the road haulage industry. Where did your capital come from for that? Well, basically myself, and then I loaned some from friends of mine, which I paid back.

Presenter5:38

And uh how talking amounts then, how much did you need to do?

Hilary Devey5:40

The setup was a hundred and twelve thousand.

Presenter5:43

Um I I'm

Hilary Devey5:44

I sold everything I got, but my

Presenter5:44

Uh

Hilary Devey5:46

And myself, of course, being a lady.

Hilary Devey5:49

Yeah.

Presenter5:49

I'm thinking of a haulage yard. I'm thinking of potholes and I'm thinking of rain and I'm thinking of the way you look right now. And I'm wondering would we ever have found you sort of trailing through a haulage yard in Wellies in a puffer jacket?

Hilary Devey6:00

Profit Jack

Hilary Devey6:02

The first hub I had was a Second World War aircraft hangar in the middle of nowhere with two chemical loos and I shared those two chemical looes with probably fifty lorry drivers and forklift drivers. Needless to say, I learned excellent bladder control. And really it was rat ridden. It had holes in the roof and often I'd be there at three, four in the morning with high-ve coats on and gloves on and wrapped up and so yeah, absolutely.

Presenter6:31

Why did you choose not just a you know a man's world, but an incredibly unglamorous world?

Hilary Devey6:36

Do you know, I fell into logistics, but I think once you're in it, you just can't get out of it.

Presenter6:42

And a man's world, I imagine.

Hilary Devey6:43

It's very, very male-dominated, even today it's ninety-nine point nine percent male-dominated.

Presenter6:49

You're busy making a lot of television programmes now, of course. You're known for these the incredible shoulder pads, especially that white jacket that you wore in Dragon's Den, the huge shoulder pads. And your catchphrase in Dragon's Den was you make my footage. What what does that mean?

Hilary Devey7:02

I guess it's something from what my father used to say to me as a child, you know, Hills, stop it right there, you making my footage. Just behave yourself, or else I'm going to kick you up the button.

Presenter7:13

All right, okay, okay.

Hilary Devey7:15

Let's have your second piece of music then, Hilary. What are we going to hear? The second piece of music is Bohemian Rhapsody. And why why does this mean so much to you? It's fond memories, happy times. I was caught in my first husband, Malcolm, and he was in a band, and he always used to play the intro into Bohemian Rhapsody on his guitar for me. And both of us just thought that it was so futuristic for the time. And I just love that music.

Presenter7:46

Just killed a man.

Presenter7:50

Put a gun against his head.

Presenter7:53

Pulled my trigger, now he's dead Mama

Presenter8:00

Life had just begun.

Presenter8:06

Yeah.

Presenter8:13

Bohemian Rhapsody from Queen there. Um Now you've described your childhood as unusual very unusual, th those are your words. You were born in Bolton in nineteen fifty seven. Um in what way was it very unusual?

Hilary Devey8:26

My childhood was incredibly nomadic because my parents who was in the pub management trade and they were given different pubs to manage and sometimes it could be a day's notice, sometimes it could be a week, sometimes it was a month's. And we just had to fit in. And I never really made kind of friends or had an Alma mater because, you know, I was uprooted and moved and moved and moved and moved. And so the only constants I had was, you know, mum and dad.

Presenter8:49

Yeah.

Presenter8:57

And tell tell me about your mum and dad, how would they met?

Hilary Devey8:59

My mum had gone to Blackpool for a weekend with friends, with girl friends, and met my Dad. My Dad whisked her away to work with him in Northern Ireland.

Hilary Devey9:11

It was only years later my mum found out that my dad was already married with four children.

Presenter9:17

So what happened when your mum found that?

Hilary Devey9:19

Well she left him, I think, initially.

Hilary Devey9:22

And then he went and got a bath.

Presenter9:24

Right.

Hilary Devey9:25

But most definitely my mother was the love of my father's life.

Presenter9:29

Yeah.

Presenter9:30

Is it the case that you yourself I think I'm right in saying this was in the 1980s you ended up in a a long-term relationship and had a child with somebody else who again, it was sort of if you like history

Hilary Devey9:39

It was history repeating. My mum actually said at the time, my God, this is history repeating itself.

Presenter9:45

Tell me what happened, then you.

Hilary Devey9:46

Mevlet was probably about 18 months old. This is your son. This is my son. And I was sat on the sofa with Hussein one evening, just watching television. The phone rang and the lady at the other end said, Hello, are you Hilary? I said, Yes, I am Hilary. Who's that speaking? She said, I'm Hussein's wife and I want to talk to you about the five children he left behind.

Hilary Devey10:12

What did you do? I passed him the phone, and I said, Here, darling, there's a phone call for you.

Hilary Devey10:18

And he said, Who is it? I said, It's your wife, darling.

Presenter10:21

And what was the look on his face?

Hilary Devey10:22

He went white, but even after that phone call he denied it he said somebody had set him up.

Hilary Devey10:28

When I did find out in later years and I said to him, So why all these years you've been lying?

Hilary Devey10:34

He said because I didn't want to lose you.

Presenter10:37

It's intriguing to me that you said, Um, darling, here's a call for you, darling, it's your wife.

Hilary Devey10:42

Mm.

Presenter10:42

What was going on underneath that very controlled surface?

Hilary Devey10:47

Devastation total and utter devastation because what it meant was my whole life with him had been a tissue of lies. It was like the whole world collapsing around you.

Presenter11:01

Let's take a pause for some music then, Hilary Devey.

Presenter11:04

Ron, your third choice of the morning. Tell me why you've chosen this.

Hilary Devey11:07

Franks and Arta, my way, um, was every Sunday morning we woke up as kids to this record blaring out, and that was my dad's way of he cooked breakfast for us all every Sunday morning. And it was the full English works, you know. And um

Presenter11:09

Yeah.

Hilary Devey11:25

I was going through a fatty stage. I didn't like tomatoes. I hated bacon. And the only eggs I'd eat would be poached with all the white cut round. And of course my dad wouldn't mess about like that. It was a fried egg or a poached egg chucked on the plate with the whites on it. So I'd pick round the whites. But the backdrop to all of this happening on a Sunday morning was Frank Sinatra. I did it my way. And I think, you know, it was so apt for my dad. It was his favourite song because everything he did, he did his way.

Speaker 311:56

I've lived.

Speaker 311:59

A life that's full

Speaker 312:02

I travelled each and every highway.

Speaker 312:08

And more.

Speaker 312:11

Much more than this, I did it my way.

Speaker 312:21

Uh

Presenter12:22

Regret

Presenter12:24

Frank Sinatra and My Way for memories of the way your father lived his life, Hilary de Vay, and indeed the way he cooked Sunday breakfast was really made to eat every week, like it or not. I want to take you back then to to May of nineteen sixty four. There is a knock at the door.

Hilary Devey12:30

Uh

Speaker 312:30

Yeah.

Presenter12:39

Tell me what happens.

Hilary Devey12:41

My father had.

Hilary Devey12:43

A relatively large business at the time and we was living in what was for them days relatively comfort.

Hilary Devey12:52

And um some uniformed men walked through the door, handed my mother a paper which she went ashen when she read it, and they then proceeded to enter the house, you know, literally stripped the house of every pan, pot, cup, everything. Everything. Everything. Literally everything.

Hilary Devey13:13

So they were the bailiffs and judges.

Presenter13:14

And the other one is a very good idea.

Hilary Devey13:17

Yes, and he was declared bankrupt.

Presenter13:20

Was this the beginning of this sort of peripatetic lifestyle of upsticks and

Hilary Devey13:23

Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Devey13:25

Yeah, very much so. Because my father had to find a way. Not just had he then got to find a job, he had to find a home for us.

Presenter13:33

Licensed trade, he started being a publican. Tell me how old you were when you first did a shift in the pub.

Presenter13:39

Yeah.

Hilary Devey13:39

Seven

Presenter13:40

What were you doing?

Hilary Devey13:41

At that stage I was washing glasses, collecting glasses, emptying ashtrays, cleaning tables.

Presenter13:47

And you've said that you learned all the necessary skills for running a business by the time you were eleven. I did.

Hilary Devey13:56

But by the time I was eleven my parents would take days out from the pub. I'd be left to open up the bar, close the bar, call Time, gentlemen, please, cash the till up, see that it balanced with the takings, balanced with the stock, reorder the stock, I'd then take the money to the bank.

Hilary Devey14:15

What did they say at the bank? I was the light of their day when I trottled in with my cash bag. And your dad let you do it because he he he clearly

Presenter14:22

Thought she's a chip off the old block, did he?

Hilary Devey14:24

Oh, my dad, that was his favourite saying to me, you're a chip off the old block, you know.

Presenter14:28

Yeah.

Hilary Devey14:30

Our hills will get there. I need not worry about her. She will get there.

Presenter14:34

Did you do the same with your own son then when he was sort of eleven or twelve? Say, Come on, muck him.

Hilary Devey14:38

He did actually. On the Saturday afternoons he could drive a four truck when he was eleven, twelve. On Saturdays when I'd no four truck drivers on, he'd come in and help me clear the Friday night's palette.

Presenter14:50

Yeah, you did. Yeah.

Presenter14:52

And your your father died when you were relatively young. You were only nineteen when your father died o of stomach cancer, given given how close you were to him.

Hilary Devey14:55

When your father died

Presenter14:59

And given how young you were nineteen it must have affected you

Hilary Devey15:02

Do you know it took me probably ten, fifteen years, not a day went by that I didn't think of my dad? He was such.

Hilary Devey15:11

He was no saint, but he was a good man.

Hilary Devey15:15

And

Hilary Devey15:17

I loved him so much, I worshipped him.

Hilary Devey15:21

as I did my mum.

Presenter15:22

Let's talk about the music. What are we going to hear now? We're on your fourth choice of the morning, Hilary.

Hilary Devey15:26

I'd like to hear in memory to my mother, Pelta singer Elkie Brooks. And why does this remind you of your mum? Because after Dad died, my mum got with my stepfather, probably the most important male role model in my son's life. But of course, because mum had been used to such a volatile relationship with Dad, she'd phone me up and she'd say, I've had a rail with him, come and get me.

Hilary Devey15:51

So I'd end up traipsing all the way down to Hoddiston in Hertfordshire to collect her, only for to be home two days, and then taking her back. And on the way back up the motorway we used to play Pearl's a Singer and we'd both be trolleying down the motorway, singing at the top of our voices.

Presenter16:07

How's the singer?

Presenter16:11

And they say that she wants

Presenter16:16

Was a winner.

Speaker 316:19

Yeah.

Presenter16:20

In a cold Contest

Speaker 316:23

Uh

Presenter16:24

I was a singer.

Speaker 316:25

Uh

Presenter16:27

And they say that you want

Presenter16:31

Cut a record.

Presenter16:35

They played it for a week or so. That was Elkie Brooks and Pearl's a singer. So Hilary Devey, entrepreneurs are as original and as diverse as the businesses they set up. But what one thing they all have in common

Presenter16:49

Is an irrepressible drive. Can you pinpoint a moment when your sort of drive was ignited and you thought, right, I'm going to do something with my life?

Hilary Devey16:55

Yes, it was around the time I decided to establish Pallax. It was inconceivable to me that this business concept would not work, would not fly, would fail. And my motto was failure is not an option. And that was the first strap line I had on the vehicles. And everybody thought it referred to delivery service. In actual fact, it referred to myself.

Presenter17:27

I'm wondering then but you know, you you'd worked really hard in your dad's pub, and then in school you'd pass the eleven plus, you were clearly a bright girl.

Hilary Devey17:35

I did go to grammar school for one year. Well, two terms. And what happened? My parents just simply couldn't afford the ancillaries that went with the uniform. And I could see them kind of despairing at how they was going to get this money together. And it was me that kind of said, It doesn't matter where I go, really, does it?

Presenter17:54

It didn't matter.

Hilary Devey17:55

Yeah.

Presenter17:55

Yeah.

Hilary Devey17:55

No, not really. I I'm naturally bright. I've always had an excellent memory, even after having a stroke, and I believe all education is, and all intelligence is, is memory.

Presenter18:08

You went to as a child around about thirteen different schools. I hated it.

Hilary Devey18:12

I hate her and I was always kind of the new girl. I was always bullied until I thought enough's enough and then I'd turn and I'd give them what for and I'd think, No, I'm not being pushed around like this. So in every

Presenter18:25

New classroom or or schoolyard that you walked into, you had to very quickly work out the sort of relationships between people, who was the bully, who was the important, who yeah.

Hilary Devey18:32

And I became very good at it.

Presenter18:34

I bet you did.

Hilary Devey18:35

Probably stood me in fantastic stead in later life.

Presenter18:38

Yeah.

Hilary Devey18:39

Because I can now walk in a room.

Hilary Devey18:42

And pick immediately.

Hilary Devey18:44

Who I should say.

Presenter18:46

Tell me about how that translates to when you're doing business.

Hilary Devey18:49

Tell by their body language and their eyes whether they're going to like me, hate me, are in fear of me.

Hilary Devey19:00

Do you care?

Presenter19:00

Here if people like you

Hilary Devey19:02

Not particularly.

Hilary Devey19:04

Not really. I know that I'm a good person. I know I would never deliberately go out of my way to harm anybody, and I would deliberately go out of my way to help somebody.

Presenter19:14

How do you think your competitors would if they were s asked to s sum up Hilary Devey in three words, what three words do you think they'd do that?

Hilary Devey19:21

I think they've got to say I've earned the respect.

Presenter19:25

Let's have some music. We're on your fifth of the morning. Tell me about this.

Hilary Devey19:30

You Raised Me Up, Westlife. I had this song played at my mum's funeral and.

Hilary Devey19:37

If you listen to the words, I think you'll understand why I love my mum, and she was my best friend and my mum, and I spoke to her every day until the day she died.

Speaker 319:50

Uh

Hilary Devey19:50

Raise

Speaker 319:50

Me up so I can't stand on mountains You raise me

Speaker 420:00

Yes, you walk on story sea.

Speaker 420:07

I am strong when I am on your shoulders

Speaker 420:16

Praise be God.

Speaker 420:19

Uh

Presenter20:19

To more than I can be

Presenter20:23

That was West Life and you raised me up and it was memories for you, Henri de Veve. You say you had that played at your mother's funeral.

Hilary Devey20:28

I feel quite choked actually because um it epitomizes what my mum did for me. And I don't think she ever got to grips. She was kind of in awe of her own daughter and what I'd achieved. And I didn't like that feeling. And I I could never manage to convey to her that I've just done it because I had to do it.

Hilary Devey20:50

And M.

Hilary Devey20:51

She was so proud of me, you know, she was just so proud of me.

Presenter20:55

She said to you, Hilary, you might be very good at running a business, you're not very good at picking blokes.

Hilary Devey20:59

Yeah.

Hilary Devey20:59

I've got a lousy choice in man.

Hilary Devey21:02

It's a fact, everybody knows it.

Presenter21:04

Why is it because you're such a smart woman?

Hilary Devey21:06

Well, it's like I said to you at the beginning, in business I can take the compassion out of a commercial decision.

Hilary Devey21:14

But when you're in a personal relationship, it's all compassion. How if you take the compassion out, there's nothing left.

Hilary Devey21:23

Are you optimistic? Well, you I mean you've been married three times. Well, I'd say I've been married two and a bit, actually. You know, Malcolm, my first husband, we were simply both too young. I wanted to kind of fly the nest and spread my wings and I was very career focused and Malcolm was a very parochial type of bloke who, you know, wanted to stay in Bolton and very stable and and it just wasn't where I was coming from because I'd had such a nomadic childhood. I knew that I'd always have a nomadic lifestyle.

Hilary Devey21:54

The second marriage.

Hilary Devey21:56

I think I was married five years, and there were some happy moments with Ed.

Hilary Devey22:02

But he ended up having an affair with the Moroccan maid. And the third marriage he simply married me for the money and literally it lasted for the duration of the ceremony.

Presenter22:12

Really it was that it was very short.

Hilary Devey22:14

Yes, very short. Well, I can't honestly believe I was married, to be honest.

Presenter22:18

Do you think if you were looking for a partner again that it would be better if you met somebody who was also well off and and

Hilary Devey22:24

Well yes, I think it would.

Presenter22:24

Yeah.

Presenter22:26

Make things a bit more equal.

Hilary Devey22:28

Yes, definitely. The only regret I've got is marrying the last guy. Um it was far too quick and my father used to say marry in haste, repent at leisure uh and I certainly did repent and um but it made me adamant that I will never marry again. I don't think there's a necessity for it.

Presenter22:49

Are you I hope this isn't too glib because you were so close to your dad, do you think you've always sort of been looking for somebody who could measure up to him?

Hilary Devey22:56

Yeah.

Presenter22:56

I think

Hilary Devey22:57

Yeah.

Presenter22:57

And on that note we must surely go to Dolly Parton.

Hilary Devey23:01

Yeah, good old dolly.

Presenter23:01

Good old Dolly. Tell me about this track. Why do you love this?

Hilary Devey23:03

I Will Always Love You reminds me of Mev's dad. We used to go into the woods and, you know, take some charcoal with us and have a barbecue in the woods, just take a tape recorder with us and sit and listen to music. And I Will Always Love You is what he always used to sing to me.

Presenter23:25

Simple.

Hilary Devey23:29

That's all I have.

Presenter23:30

Uh

Presenter23:30

Uh

Hilary Devey23:30

And all I'm taking is me.

Hilary Devey23:39

Oh, please do.

Hilary Devey23:42

Cause we both know.

Presenter23:45

Come on.

Presenter23:46

You need but I

Speaker 323:54

Below waves like you are.

Presenter24:00

Yeah.

Presenter24:03

That was Dolly Parton, and I will always love you. Hilary Devey, wh when you were twelve, something very traumatic happened to you. You you were raped.

Presenter24:14

Who did you tell?

Hilary Devey24:16

I didn't tell anybody, I didn't see a need to tell anybody.

Hilary Devey24:21

I just got on with it.

Presenter24:22

A terrible thing to happen to anybody, but but adding to the trauma the fact that you were just twelve years old.

Hilary Devey24:27

I think at the time, you know

Hilary Devey24:30

Of my father known, I think.

Hilary Devey24:32

Eda killed.

Hilary Devey24:34

The guys had gone out, find them and killed'em, and I don't think I could have had that trauma at home.

Hilary Devey24:43

And I was quite shy about things like that at home, I think most teenage girls are. And I just couldn't bring myself to to say anything to anybody, so I never told anybody, and it stayed hidden. And it only came out during the writing of that book.

Hilary Devey25:01

It was almost as though it had to be.

Hilary Devey25:04

It had to come out.

Presenter25:06

It must have changed at the time. There must have been a difference.

Hilary Devey25:08

I became very introverted for a while, even more shy.

Hilary Devey25:14

Didn't date boys, I focused my attention on horses, on animals, on.

Hilary Devey25:20

My dad's business is in helping around at home.

Presenter25:24

People who have been sexually assaulted very often turn the

Presenter25:29

The guilt in on themselves and they start to feel guilty. Did you

Hilary Devey25:32

I d I did feel a couple of years after the event, I felt it was my fault. How could I have been so stupid to have put myself in that position?

Presenter25:43

What do you think now when you look back on

Hilary Devey25:45

Clearly, I was a young girl, I was very naive, I was unworldly wise.

Presenter25:45

Even

Hilary Devey25:50

So clearly I was very vulnerable, and I was taken great advantage of.

Presenter25:56

What impact do you think it's had on you, on your spirit, on the sort of person you are?

Hilary Devey26:01

I think it it kind of made me think nothing like that will ever happen to me again.

Hilary Devey26:08

And I'm extremely cautious, you know, to putting myselves in vulnerable positions like that.

Presenter26:14

It's so interesting that you've used words like shy and introverted. And you know, here you sit. You look like you could conquer the world, and if you put your mind to it, I'm pretty sure you could. How did you manage to to change the introverted girl who'd gone through this

Presenter26:28

Terrifying experience.

Hilary Devey26:28

Terrifying experience.

Hilary Devey26:31

My life was very busy.

Hilary Devey26:34

And I guess I just pushed it to the back of my subconscious.

Hilary Devey26:39

Time for some more music then. What are we going to hear now? The next piece of music is Celine Dion My Heart Will Go On. Why have you chosen this? Simply because I'd got over the cash flow problems with Pallix and I wasn't then scrambling around to put a meal on the table and going home at Christmas with eleven pence in my pocket. And I was beginning to start to relax and chill and just enjoy my life a little bit.

Presenter27:06

Need

Presenter27:11

Wherever you are

Presenter27:15

I believe that's the hardest.

Presenter27:26

One small.

Presenter27:30

You are membered.

Presenter27:35

Till he bring my heart and my heart will go on.

Presenter27:45

That's Celine Dion and my heart will go on. Let's talk a little bit, Hilary Devay, about fame. Do do you like being a a well-known face?

Presenter27:53

I don't feel any difference, actually. You must get a lot of attention, though, I imagine.

Hilary Devey27:58

Well, if I do, I'm perhaps half blind'cause I don't see it and I don't feel any different today than I did before Dragon's Den or whatever. It it doesn't matter. Look either like me or don't, but I'm me.

Presenter28:12

There can't be many CEOs who who hire a comedian to impersonate them at the annual Works Do. You actually did that, haven't you?

Hilary Devey28:20

Um I I think if you can't make fun out of yourself, then who can? It was Vicki Stone actually, and she brought the house down.

Hilary Devey28:30

And yeah, the joke was at my expense, but so what?

Presenter28:33

You spend so much of your life filming now. Um who runs the business while you're on the film center?

Hilary Devey28:38

I've got I'm very lucky, very, very fortunate. I've got a board of ten directors and but for them I would not be able to pursue my media career. So they run Pallex on a day-to-day basis and indeed have even got involved in helping to advise and mentor some of the businesses that I've invested in in Dragonstone.

Presenter28:58

And how many women are on that board along with you?

Hilary Devey29:01

I'm ashamed to say that there's only me.

Hilary Devey29:03

And this is not an excuse, it isn't through want of trying.

Presenter29:07

What advice would you give to young men, young women listening to you talk today? I mean, we can hear the drama that you've been through and the hard graph that you've put in. What advice would you give to young budding entrepreneurs?

Hilary Devey29:18

I'd say be true to yourself, be true to your business, don't chase the money, it runs away.

Hilary Devey29:25

If you've got a concept that you think you can turn it you can bring to fruition, then be proud of that and start the business because that's your reason for doing so, not because you think you're going to make a million pounds, because it's those sort of people that don't make a million.

Presenter29:42

You had your stroke in it was two thousand nine.

Presenter29:46

Do you ever think, you know what, maybe it's time just to stop?

Hilary Devey29:50

Because I I think you've got to be that sort of person to want to just stop and I've so much to do. So, you know, my brain's going twenty four seven and I think if you're made like that, do you ever stop? I don't take holidays, I just move offices to sunnier climates. Do you? You take your whole take the minute

Presenter30:07

You take the mentality with you when you go away.

Hilary Devey30:08

Absolutely. My phone is never off.

Presenter30:11

Do you think you're a difficult person to live with?

Hilary Devey30:14

I'm quite laid back.

Hilary Devey30:16

Are you not?

Hilary Devey30:17

I'm very in the middle of the morning.

Presenter30:18

I don't believe that for a second.

Hilary Devey30:19

Well, I'm meticulous. And I've become more laid back since the stroke because I can't do it. I've got a young lady that is kind of part PA, part Kerrish actually, because I can't fasten a bra'cause this arm's totally paralyzed. So she helps me.

Presenter30:34

Right. So th this is going to be enforced relaxation on this island that I'm sending you to, Hilary? Because yes, it is. How how are you going to cope with that?

Hilary Devey30:41

Yeah.

Hilary Devey30:45

I think I'd have to film my Kindlo.

Presenter30:47

Well, we'll talk about the books in a moment, but before we do, we should have the final piece of music. Tell us what we're going to hear.

Hilary Devey30:53

The next song is The Gambler, Kenny Rogers. And when my son was a baby, the only way I could quieten him was put this music on top blast, and he'd be rocking in the back seat of his little baby chair, you know. All the way from, you know, London to Bolton, we'd be listening to the same song, The Gambler. And I used to say, Can we turn it off now, Mev, and have something else? No, mummy, turn the gambler on, mummy.

Speaker 431:19

On a warm summer's eve.

Speaker 431:21

On a train bound for nowhere

Speaker 431:24

Met up with a gambler.

Speaker 431:27

We were both too tired to sleep.

Speaker 431:29

So we took turns o' staring.

Speaker 431:32

Out the window at the darkness, Till boredom overtook us.

Speaker 431:38

And he began to speak. He said, son, I've made a life.

Speaker 431:43

Out of reading people's faces

Speaker 431:46

Knowing what the cards were by the way they held their eye

Presenter31:50

That was the Gambler from Kenny Rogers. So it's time for me, Hilary, to give you the books. As you know, I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take along not a Kindle packed full of books, but just one book. What's it going to be?

Hilary Devey32:03

Think would have to be Leslie Pierce.

Presenter32:06

Mm-hmm.

Hilary Devey32:06

And I think it would have to be never looked back.

Presenter32:09

Right, you may have that. And you're allowed a luxury, too, something that will make life on this lonely island just a bit more bearable. What will your luxury be?

Hilary Devey32:19

I think a cointreau and water with lots of ice. Right, well. A big glass. A little bit of cointrot topped up with cold water in it.

Presenter32:22

Right.

Presenter32:26

I'm going to give you an endless supply of Quantro ice and a do you like a crystal uh tumbler? Yes, I'd like. Okay, you can have all of that then as your luxury. And just one disc. If you had to save one disc from the waves, which one would it be?

Hilary Devey32:39

It's the hard choice, um, but I think it would have to be you raised me up in memory to my mum.

Presenter32:46

Right, you may have that. Hilary Devey, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island disc.

Hilary Devey32:50

It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

Presenter33:09

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co. uk slash radio four.