Jackie Mason

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is Jackie Mason, one of the greatest comedians of all time, according to Mel Brooks. Who knows, he could have been one of the greatest rabbis of all time, but he didn't stick at it. Instead, in pursuit of laughs, he's applied the discipline of deductive reasoning to everything from fat free cookies to foreign policy.

Presenter0:51

Along with the laughter, he's courted danger and controversy too, dodging a bullet from the mafia and frequently getting up the noses of those on the Liberal left. He says

Presenter1:02

I'm trying to get to the core essence of things, trying to separate lies from truth. You make comedy sound like a very serious business, Jackie Mason.

Jackie Mason1:10

Yes, it is a serious business because in order to be funny you have to understand what's going on in the world and you have to know the basic situation in order to make comedy out of it. An ignorant person has to do a kind of evapid, empty-headed comedy which says nothing and reflects nothing, it's boring to death to me. When you're nineteen and you talk about a love affair, it's fascinating to them. When you talk about uh romance to a seventy year old it's not so fascinating. You right there about how you get rid of this woman who's bothering him all the time.

Presenter1:41

There's a brilliant Yiddish word for a constant rolling body of laughter. Is it tumul or tamul? I'm not sure.

Jackie Mason1:49

It's a tumultu. Yeah, a tummel is good.

Presenter1:51

It fits the description of what you get from your audiences, because I've noticed when I watch you, when I listen to you, your audience seems to constantly laugh. There isn't a rise and a stop and they are always, always in this sort of rolling state of laughter. Hard work.

Jackie Mason2:04

Hard work. If I tell a joke that doesn't quite get a laugh, or there's a transition t that's a little too long between laps, I try to get rid of it as fast as possible.

Presenter2:18

So, from one night to the next night, you're always yourself editing, you're critiquing, you're working out during the day what didn't work on the set.

Jackie Mason2:23

What the

Jackie Mason2:25

I'm always developing and working and thinking about n new things, new ways to get new laughs and more laughs out of every situation. I don't wanna give them time to think because once you're thinking you're not laughing. You j I just want them to identify with what I'm talking about and then the laughter has to come immediately. Without immediate laughs to me, it's a it's dead weight.

Presenter2:46

You've won Tony and Emmy, you've sold out on Broadway time and time again. You've said of your own ambition, I am definitely a sick egomaniac. I definitely need the stage, I definitely need the attention. That that's still true, is it?

Jackie Mason3:01

I would say it's always true. You don't like to believe it yourself. You like to rationalize excuses to yourself. But the simple fact is anybody who's on the stage is just dying to be there. Some people say I'd have to bring entertainment to people. I enjoy watching people having a good time. They always like to pretend it's a altruistic, compassionate thing. It's not compassion. It's not altruism. It's egomania. That's all it really is.

Presenter3:25

Would you say that your your life has been devoted to your comedy above all else?

Jackie Mason3:29

I would don't know if it's my life so devoted to it it's my it's my work idea. It's a profession I choose because I'm fascinated with making jokes and creating jokes. Life should mean more than just your work or just your hobby or your lifts. I think it life should have more significance than death.

Presenter3:47

If if you don't mind me asking, how old are you now?

Jackie Mason3:50

I would never tell anybody.

Jackie Mason3:53

I I know you'd like to make an exception in your case. You're a fascinating lady and I think the show is a wonderful show, but I'd rather not talk about it because once you mention your age, people are thinking more about your age than your jokes. Yeah.

Presenter4:06

Okay.

Jackie Mason4:06

And if you tell a joke, they say, Well, if for a men that age

Jackie Mason4:10

It's funny enough.

Presenter4:11

Let's have some music then, Jackie Mason. Let's go to your first track of the day. Tell tell us what we're going to hear. What have you chosen?

Jackie Mason4:18

Well, one of my great favorites of all time was Perry Como. I I think that's that could be a a headline up for me.

Speaker 44:25

Got accent, shoot the positive, you limb, finate the negative and light shot.

Speaker 44:35

To the affirmative, don't mess with Mr. In between.

Speaker 44:39

You gotta spread joy up to the maximum spring gloom

Speaker 44:46

Down to the minimum and have faith for pandemonium, libel to walk up on the scene, amen.

Presenter4:54

That was Perry Como and Accentuate the Positive, one of the many stars that you've worked with throughout the years, Jackie Mason. Fifty years then, you've been making people laugh. You're very much defined by your Jewishness. I notice now on the web

Speaker 44:54

About

Presenter5:07

Um you you go by the name of the ultimate Jew, people call you I mean uh obviously your Jewishness is absolutely central to who you are and central to your comedy, but was there a time when people tried to persuade you to park it, to to not use it?

Jackie Mason5:11

Cray

Jackie Mason5:20

Oh yes, there was a time as late as a week ago that people told me, Why do you have to sound so Jewish? A lot of Jews are embarrassed by Jewishness because it reminds them of their parents, their grandparents who were refugees, were poverty stricken, struggling for attention, struggling to be accepted, because society in general never really accepted Jews as equals or partners.

Jackie Mason5:43

They were always like an alienated minority.

Jackie Mason5:46

People who are raised that way still have a feeling of I don't belong if I'm Jewish, so I'd rather you don't mention it, or I'd rather you don't remind me. So when a guy like me shows up and sounds so Jewish, a lot of those type of Jews get very embarrassed by it.

Presenter6:00

How would you define Jewish humour? Is there such a thing as Jewish humour?

Jackie Mason6:04

I would say there is such a thing as Jewish humour, because Jewish humour

Jackie Mason6:08

has always been very self conscious about the Jewishness. It's always been about a guy who's an underdog and the problems he's facing as an alienated character.

Jackie Mason6:18

So you will make fun of your rejection and persecution.

Presenter6:21

So, when you were starting out, people were uncomfortable with it. And now, given your success, given that you fill theatres, do you think?

Presenter6:29

That this is a time then when people are much more comfortable to celebrate their Jewishness? Do you think time to change?

Jackie Mason6:34

I think times have changed a lot and uh Jews are much more much more accepted today. Today there's a mixture of races and religions like it doesn't even matter. The younger the people are, the less it matters to them what their identity is in terms of their religion or their colour. Whites and blacks would never marry in those days, Jews and Gentiles would never marry today. That type of marriage is very common. Jews aren't being persecuted today, or even when I started in the business 45, 50 years ago. Jews weren't really suffering anywhere, but they were self-conscious because they have suffered in the past. It was like they couldn't believe

Jackie Mason7:11

the the fact that they're being accepted now. And they were still nervous about something that that hasn't happened in the last twenty years. And you've put your continued success. It's the same thing with black people today. They still talk about being persecuted when the white people don't even feel that.

Presenter7:27

But surely it's for surely it's for the group themselves to judge that. If they if they encounter racism of any sort, I mean I'm sure there would have been

Jackie Mason7:33

Well, there might be some such people that there are who are racists, but I wouldn't say the Jews or the blacks today are suffering from racism. I don't think it's such a terrible disadvantage to be black or Jewish today. But because they once were, it's their own problem to overcome the past, which they can't believe it.

Jackie Mason7:52

They're still not comfortable enough with the new situation they're in, and they still can't accept the fact that they're completely accepted everywhere. But it's all in their minds.

Presenter8:01

But that's a very controversial thing to say.

Jackie Mason8:04

I don't think it's controversial at all. I think that

Jackie Mason8:07

I see this with all the Monaoes. If a Jew can't get a job somewhere

Jackie Mason8:10

He can't admit to himself that he's just inadequate, or he just thinks at at that particular kind of job.

Jackie Mason8:17

He'll claim it's anti Semitism. It's more imagination.

Jackie Mason8:21

Everybody imagined that it's impossible for a black person to get elected President of the United States, whether they're Jewish or white or black, they never thought that it's possible for a black person to become President. Why? Because people didn't grow up enough to be pressed what went happened before and they're still imagining it's still there when it's gone already.

Presenter8:40

But it's a much it is much easier for people to criticise the communities from within. I mean the kind of material that you do a lot about Jewish people. If somebody was to do that material and they weren't Jewish, it would be deemed unacceptable. But because you are, if you like, the ultimate Jew, making those observations of Jews, in a way you give us permission to laugh at those things.

Jackie Mason8:56

Yeah.

Jackie Mason9:00

Right, right. There's no question about it that that's true. You yourself could say about your own people what they might find it difficult to accept from an from an outsider because it always brings back the thought that that anti Semitism or that prejudice still exists.

Presenter9:03

Yeah.

Speaker 49:10

Uh

Presenter9:10

Hmm.

Presenter9:16

Let's have some music, Jackie Mason. What are we going to hear now?

Jackie Mason9:19

I was just thinking of different uh singers that I love and I'm glad that I picked Dinah Washington. She was a legendary sensation.

Jackie Mason9:27

Her voice will live in their minds forever, for nobody could forget how for the rest of their life. She really reached you very deeply.

Speaker 39:39

Is a many splendored things

Speaker 39:46

It's the April Rose.

Speaker 39:51

That only grows.

Jackie Mason9:52

Ah

Speaker 39:54

In the early spring

Speaker 39:59

Love is named.

Presenter10:00

That was Dinah Washington and love is a many splendored thing. Uh Jackie Mason, I want to take you back to the very early years. You were born in the thirties. Your dad had come from Russia. He was an Orthodox Jewish rabbi and this was a very difficult time economically. Um what are your earliest memories of life at home? I'm imagining of course money would have been very expensive.

Jackie Mason10:20

Well I was enjoying myself.

Presenter10:21

Yeah.

Jackie Mason10:24

Growing up doesn't know if he's poverty stricken or not. If he has enough to eat, then he has love, has attention. He doesn't know that this is a cheap chair, or you have to sleep in a bed. As long as you could sleep, I was sleeping more often on a chair than a bed.

Jackie Mason10:38

or or some kind of a cushion on the floor, and uh I had b th three brothers and sisters, or s there were six people in the family, so we were all next to each other or close to each other, and taking care of each other.

Presenter10:52

And you said if you had enough food to eat did you have enough food to eat?

Jackie Mason10:54

It was enough to eat, but uh I I didn't eat any great steaks, I didn't have any any fantastic foods. You don't know that you have to have a balanced diet when you're five years old, and you don't know even when you're ten or twelve, if you never saw a restaurant, you don't know you're missing it.

Presenter11:08

Is it right enough that when your father performed at marriages and so on he would he would bring a little something back from the food that had been provided at the at the wedding?

Jackie Mason11:15

My father at that time I looked back and found out and realized that we really had no food, because my father was collecting food all the time. He was buying yesterday's milk, a banana from two weeks ago, things that were left over in different places for practically no price. I don't think I saw any kind of meat for the first ten years of my life.

Presenter11:37

Really?

Jackie Mason11:37

I don't there was cheese a lot. Whatever the cheaper items was what I saw.

Presenter11:42

Can I ask you you're hugely successful obviously and I I've heard you know the comedian Billy Conley, I've heard him talk about he was brought up in in pretty straightened circumstances when he was a little boy, and he says that

Presenter11:54

You know, even now, although he has plenty money

Presenter11:57

It sort of never leaves him, the idea of how much you can spend on things and how much things cost. I wonder what your relationship with money is like now.

Jackie Mason12:04

My relationship with money is just the opposite of Kanalia. I don't value money any any special way because of the effect it had when I was poverty stricken. I realized uh the older I am that money means nothing. That past a certain amount of money, the waste rest of your money that you're saving, you're saving just to feel rich. That's why a lot of times m very wealthy people are very cheap, because they love the idea of being so wealthy that they don't want to buy anything. They spend their time trying to feel rich and feeling rich is more important to them than enjoying life.

Jackie Mason12:38

I make fun of a person who buys a Lamborghini a three hundred or four hundred thousand dollar car that has no seat. You're driving the car with you with your knees in your mouth.

Speaker 412:49

Yeah.

Jackie Mason12:49

They ca takes them an hour to get in and out of the car. I say this to my actor.

Presenter12:54

You don't think much of sushi, either.

Jackie Mason12:57

I say, nobody ever ate raw fish before, it was called sushi. So if somebody said to you, Here's a piece of fish, I forgot to cook it.

Jackie Mason13:06

You would think the guy is nuts. I say this in my act. It was invented by two Jews, who were saying to themselves, How can we open a restaurant without a kitchen?

Jackie Mason13:15

Or the same thing with Cajun food. Cajun food is boiled fish. My mother couldn't cook all her life. She made Cajun food. I never knew it to her.

Presenter13:25

Oh, okay, we've got to have some music. Um we're going to a piece of religious music now, Jackie Mason. Tell me why you've chosen this piece of music.

Jackie Mason13:33

Because it reminds me of my old days.

Jackie Mason13:36

in the synagogue and when I was praying and that religious feeling I think was has a beautiful kind of special feeling that does something to you.

Speaker 413:53

Yes or no?

Presenter14:20

That was Kantor Manfred Lewandowski and Cole Nidra. Um, Jackie Mason, your father then, of course, was a very devout man. What what was the

Presenter14:28

What was the atmosphere in the household when you were a little boy? What was it like growing up?

Jackie Mason14:33

It was a beautiful atmosphere. We all got along very well, and we all were all involved in the same religious pursuit. It was all.

Jackie Mason14:41

going through everything in life together.

Presenter14:43

I read that your father was a very strict man, though. Is that true? Was he?

Jackie Mason14:47

He was strict about religion, but he wasn't strict as a human being. He was very narrow minded in the sense that he was never involved in the outside world. It was a totally religious life devoid of too much knowledge and information about what else is going on in the world.

Presenter15:01

How old were you when you knew that your father expected you to become a rabbi?

Jackie Mason15:06

I knew all my life that my father expected me to be a rabbi, and I had no no complaint or disturbance about it.

Jackie Mason15:12

And it was a great idea to me to become a rabbi. Then I became a rabbi.

Jackie Mason15:17

And when I became a rabbi I started to see and learn more about life in general, in the directions that are not necessarily religious. And I said to myself, I don't think this is what I really want for the rest of my life. I wanted to please my father, so I didn't want to hurt his feelings by telling him I'd become a comedian. So I pretended that this is just an attempt to have some fun, that this is a a kind of a minor hobby that's not going to go any place or mean anything. It'll just be a way for me to enjoy myself while I'm being a rabbi.

Presenter15:52

And when did you start making people laugh and start thinking that actually that that might be the job for you?

Jackie Mason15:57

Because as soon as I started talking to audiences when I was doing when I was delivering my sermons in the temple, as I was delivering my sermons I noticed that it feels easy for me to to infuse some comedy into my speeches. And I noticed that the more comedy I used, the speeches and the sermons became more successful.

Presenter16:15

The thing I'm wondering though is when in your own mind did you think

Presenter16:19

I want to actually seriously pursue this. It's not just that I'm employing it as part of my job.

Jackie Mason16:23

When the people who heard my sermons kept saying to me, Rabbi, why aren't you a comedian? I said to myself, maybe I should take the hint.

Presenter16:30

Tip

Jackie Mason16:30

Because I began because they were saying it to me all the time. I said to myself, Let me try it. As a matter of fact, my sermons were also a big hit. They were such a big hit that after a while I started to attract a lot of Gentiles into the temple.

Presenter16:42

Is this true?

Jackie Mason16:42

The void got out that after a while the Jews had to make reservations to get into their own temple.

Presenter16:48

Tell me, your your three brothers uh became rabbis also and and as we know, as I've said, there was this long line of the rabbinical tradition, your father, your grandfather, your great grandfather. You must have been very torn, the idea that you were going to break this tradition.

Jackie Mason16:48

You're l

Jackie Mason16:51

No.

Jackie Mason17:01

At the beginning I felt very bad about doing it, but then as I started to make a lot of money I said, Well,

Jackie Mason17:08

Let's be honest about it. It's a very poor family I'm with. Nobody's making much money and they're having a difficult time. And I knew I could help out the whole family. I said it's a fantastic difference at the pay scale.

Presenter17:20

Did you hide that from your father? I mean, presumably you if you told him it was just a hobby, you must have had to try to somehow kind of

Jackie Mason17:26

I had to pretend I had to pretend Zahabi because I would I think compassion is more important than truth. If I told them the truth it would be devastating to them. And as I made more and more money and I I started to support more and more of the family. They forgot that it's important to be a rabbi, and now they were hoping I would just tell more jokes.

Presenter17:44

We're going to break for some music, Jackie Mason. We're on the fourth disc of the day. Tell me what we're going to hear now on our fourth disc.

Jackie Mason17:45

Two.

Jackie Mason17:51

What we're gonna hear now is Patsy Klein. Patsy Klein, in my opinion, is the greatest female singer that ever lived.

Jackie Mason17:58

There was a certain overwhelming power in Patsy Cline that, as far as I'm concerned, made her the superstar of all time.

Presenter18:06

All the way where the went

Speaker 418:10

Is a restless win.

Speaker 418:15

A restless wind That yearns to wander

Speaker 418:24

And he was born.

Presenter18:29

The next of kin The next of kin to the way we're doing

Presenter18:40

That was Patsy Klein and Wayward Wind. So, Jackie Mason, you've written?

Presenter18:46

This is very interesting. I'm not really sure I understand it. You've written that in some way your mother regarded you as these are your words a crippled child.

Presenter18:55

What do you mean by that? Do you remember writing that?

Jackie Mason18:57

Because uh because of

Jackie Mason19:00

My mother felt that uh I needed special attention because my three brothers were older than me, were always together, and I was like left out, I was always felt like an outsider.

Speaker 419:10

Yeah.

Jackie Mason19:10

Kids are basically selfish. I was the one that always felt left out. So my mother always noticed it and she always would pay more attention to me.

Presenter19:19

So you spent a lot of time with your mother, did you? Were you

Jackie Mason19:21

Yeah.

Presenter19:22

Yes. Tell me about her. What was she like?

Jackie Mason19:24

She was a very, very caring, loving person, and her whole life was just her children. She didn't even know that she needed or wanted anything on this earth. If you gave her nothing, she would say thank you.

Presenter19:36

How did she get on with your father? Was it a good marriage?

Jackie Mason19:38

Yes, they were very happy together.

Jackie Mason19:41

But my father was always devoted to his religious work and he was always thinking of scholarship and learning. Rabbis are are usually scholars. My father had n never saw a movie, he never went to a concert.

Jackie Mason19:57

He never watched a baseball game.

Jackie Mason20:00

He uh just wanted to know exactly where was the Talmud and where was the synagogue and where how fast can I get there? That was the only thing on his mind.

Presenter20:08

When you and I started talking this morning, you said that you um your comedy comes out of knowing what is going on in the world, you know, and you you devote a lot of your time to being engaged with the world, to reading the papers, to watching the T V shows, to being across current affairs. It seems to me the life you live is

Jackie Mason20:15

Yeah.

Jackie Mason20:18

Yeah.

Presenter20:24

you know, almost the polar opposite of the life that your father lived. Would that be fair?

Presenter20:40

How do you spend your time when you're not thinking of your act and you're not working out your comedy? What do you do?

Presenter20:46

For your leisure time.

Jackie Mason20:48

Well, I I go for a walk. I'm studying people. I

Presenter20:52

I wonder when you're watching life go by and you say your comedy is the comedy of philosophy and observation, are you able just to to observe people these days? Are people not saying, Look, there's Jackie Mason he's sitting in the corner of the hotel lobby In a way I'm wondering if your fame gets in the way of your observation of life.

Jackie Mason21:07

It might, but not very often. Most people, especially in England, their main idea is not to be in any way invasive of somebody else's privacy and their great pride is in minding their own business, especially in London. In London a guy could be facing another guy on the same bus every day for a year and they'll never even say hello. They feel it's an invasion of your privacy.

Presenter21:29

Let's have some more music, Jackie Mason. Your fifth disc of the day. Tell me about that. Track number five. What are we going to hear?

Jackie Mason21:35

Crystal Gale is a touching kind of a lilt in the in the sound of her voice, where she she hits the notes with a con some kind of a special emotion that that you don't hear on many singers.

Presenter21:50

If your sweetheart

Presenter21:54

Since the letter

Presenter21:57

A goodbye

Presenter22:04

It's no secret.

Presenter22:07

You feel bad.

Speaker 322:11

If you cry

Presenter22:18

That was Crystal Gale and Cry. So, Jackie Mason, you decided that you were going to leave behind being a rabbi and you decided you were going to be a comedian, and it all it kicked off pretty quickly. Is it true that you appeared on the same Ed Sullivan show as The Beatles?

Presenter22:33

What do you remember of that?

Jackie Mason22:35

I remember everybody was screaming about the Beatles. I didn't know what they were screaming about. To me it looked like four kids who need a haircut. Then they sang a song that I wasn't impressed with. But here it sounded to me like four people got together. There's still not one person with a real voice. To me it was just four people in search of a voice.

Presenter22:49

Um

Presenter22:52

So you were on all the big T V shows of the time. You appeared with Perry Como, Ed Sullivan, Dean Martin. You were working Vegas too. Of course, as we all know, Showbiz is is a down and dirty industry. Things can get pretty mean. There was a some sort of feud between you and Frank Sinatra. Tell me a little bit of what happened.

Jackie Mason23:11

I used to see Sinacho in Las Vegas, and every time he was playing in a hotel, all the other comics and performers, all the everybody would like pay homage to him like he was the Pope. I never particularly paid attention to him. And I said to myself, I'm I'm not the subservian type and I'm not going to get involved in that scene, so I used to just look at it and uh and keep walking.

Jackie Mason23:34

And somehow it bothered him that I'm the only guy in the Las Vegas crowd of stars that that was ignoring him. So he would louse me up to people. What does he think? He's a big shot? He would invent all kinds of reasons to hate me that had nothing to do with me. So one day when I was performing, I was telling my jokes, he came in and they started heckling my act. So when he started heckling my act, I started to call him names.

Presenter23:59

What did you say?

Jackie Mason24:00

I said to her, Nobody is paying you.

Jackie Mason24:03

But you're performing for nothing now. Can't you make a living from your own act? You have to become my partner now to make a living. What's wrong with you?

Jackie Mason24:12

If you need that much attention, you should see a doctor, you shouldn't see my show.

Presenter24:15

Did you s you said

Jackie Mason24:16

So I started to literally abuse him. I said a million abusive things to him because I couldn't stop him from interfering with my acts.

Jackie Mason24:23

And finally he and his whole group walked out.

Presenter24:26

Now you say there he and his whole group uh walked out. It it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that at that time Frank Sinatra was keeping company that uh was not exactly spic and span. I mean he w you know, he was in with a mob, he was good with the mob, yeah.

Presenter24:43

Do you think you were being naïve?

Jackie Mason24:45

No, I said to myself, what could they do me?

Presenter24:47

Well, they could obviously kill you.

Jackie Mason24:49

Yeah.

Presenter24:49

So yeah.

Jackie Mason24:51

And uh

Presenter24:52

And they tried to, didn't they?

Jackie Mason24:53

I don't know if they literally tried to kill me or just to threaten me, because one day I was sitting in my room in Las Vegas, and all of a sudden bullets went through m the other side of my room and it cracked all the windows.

Speaker 425:06

Right.

Jackie Mason25:07

I didn't I didn't realize it was bullets. I thought something was an earthquake or something. But when the cops came and they started investigating, they they wouldn't do anything about it.

Presenter25:17

Right.

Jackie Mason25:18

They started to ask me questions like I was the guy who who who shot the bullets through the window.

Presenter25:23

But you're you're pretty sure it was connected to him.

Jackie Mason25:26

I have no doubt that he was involved in that whole story.

Presenter25:29

Let's have some music, Jackie Mason. Tell me about your sixth piece today. What are we going to hear now?

Jackie Mason25:35

To me Euro, she was a white girl singing like a black jazz musician. She sounded like she came from the ghettos and of Harlem. You would never know that this was a white girl singing.

Speaker 425:46

Tell myself

Speaker 425:48

What's done is done.

Speaker 425:51

I tell myself

Speaker 425:52

Don't be a fool.

Speaker 425:56

In the field, have a lot of fun.

Speaker 425:59

It's easy when you play it cool

Speaker 426:05

Tell myself, don't be a chump.

Speaker 426:10

Who cares?

Speaker 426:11

Let him stay away.

Speaker 426:14

That's when the phone rings and I jump

Speaker 426:18

As I grab the phone I

Presenter26:21

That was Timmy Euro, and it must be him. So, Jackie, you're in Britain for this live show that you're doing. You've said, though, that there are going to be no more of these huge Broadway runs that you've done. Are you so are you winding down your career now? Is this the beginning of the end of Jackie Mason's?

Jackie Mason26:33

I used

Jackie Mason26:37

I would say so.

Jackie Mason26:39

I would say that I'll still tell jokes at a private party, even at a dinner table. If somebody gives me the right price, I'll tell them a joke.

Presenter26:46

How much would it cost to hear a Jackie McClure?

Jackie Mason26:48

I would charge at least uh

Jackie Mason26:50

Eighty thousand dollars a joke.

Presenter26:52

Okay.

Jackie Mason26:52

Okay. This way I know I'm safe, because I don't think too many people are gonna hear screen.

Presenter26:58

In terms of giving it up, I mean, your comedy seems as sharp as it's ever been. You're giving it up, why, just because the sort of physical act of getting on stage every night is is too tough?

Jackie Mason27:07

It's not the physical problem of getting on the stage, it's just that it's very hard work to constantly challenge yourself to be as fresh and new about every joke you tell, and it takes a lot of intensive labor to uh work out the jokes. Because like right now when I'm this I'm in the Wyndham Theater here, I'm just as uh knowledgeable about what's happening all around me and every incident that takes place in the news every day. But to make a joke out of anything requires hard work. Jack Benny once told me that if he could predict thirty percent of the jokes that will be effective for more for all the jokes they write, he would consider that sensational, because usually it's a lot less than even thirty percent.

Jackie Mason27:53

Every time somebody said hello to me, I started to wonder if I could make a joke out of it. Every time I sat down, I wondered if I could make a comedy out of the chair or out of the g out of the guy that gave it to me. I had to find a c comedy in everything I was doing to keep up with enough new jokes all the time for my new shows. Because every time I come to Broadway or right here, I want to come with as much of a new world as possible. And then I say to myself, do I really need this right now? Isn't it easier to sit on a chair or go for a walk?

Jackie Mason28:24

Hang around and enjoy yourself.

Presenter28:26

Have you ever had writers?

Jackie Mason28:28

I never had writers a mushroom.

Presenter28:29

Never

Jackie Mason28:30

If a guy tells me he's a writer, I tell him he could keep moving. I don't even want him to say he spoke to me about being a writer.

Jackie Mason28:37

If they talked to me for two minutes I'll claim they're my writer. East might have said, What time is it? and I answered him. He said, Yeah.

Jackie Mason28:43

I work with Jackie Mason. I was just putting five minutes ago.

Presenter28:47

We're gonna have some music, Jackie. Tell us about your seventh disc of the day. What are we gonna hear now?

Jackie Mason28:51

The platters are my prayer.

Presenter28:53

Uh

Jackie Mason28:53

Uh

Presenter28:53

Why have you chosen this?

Jackie Mason28:53

I always loved the platas as one of the great singing groups of all time.

Presenter28:58

Where

Speaker 428:58

When the twilight is gone And no songbirds will sing

Speaker 429:09

When the twilight is gone, you come into my heart

Speaker 429:19

And here in my heart you will stay.

Speaker 429:25

Why pray for

Presenter29:30

So that was the platters and my prayer. So, uh, Jackie, you and your wife, Jill, you don't have children and I'm wondering when you retire, will you slightly drive each other crazy, you know, when you're not working so much?

Jackie Mason29:40

Well, she's got her own life. She's a businesswoman. And she's brilliant at it. I'm just the opposite. I don't know how to do business at all. If I had to sign a contract, I wouldn't know where to put the pencil and paper. I never walked into a supermarket. I don't go to buy anything. I don't package anything, any practical thing. If I even have to mail a letter, I can't figure out how to do it. If I had to make a living from actually accomplishing something practical or deal in the real world, it's not for me.

Presenter30:10

Well, Jackie, you know you are my castaway, and I am going to cast you away to a desert island to be on your own with your discs.

Jackie Mason30:16

Discs

Presenter30:17

How are you gonna handle life on the island?

Jackie Mason30:19

I don't know.

Jackie Mason30:20

This is not Pikefield, so I can't explain it to you.

Jackie Mason30:23

If he gave if he gave me a choice I wouldn't be there.

Presenter30:26

Too late now. Um w what about could you build a shelter maybe or fish for food or

Jackie Mason30:31

I don't think so. No. I think if I was starving because I had nothing to eat, the chances are I would just pass away because I wouldn't know where to go to find it.

Presenter30:32

No.

Presenter30:40

Even the raw fish? You wouldn't eat that, no?

Jackie Mason30:41

Yeah, leave it the raw fish.

Presenter30:44

Okay, let's have your final disc of the day then. T tell us what we're gonna hear.

Jackie Mason30:47

Susan Boyle

Presenter30:48

And why had he chosen this?

Jackie Mason30:50

Oh my God, she sings from the heart in a way that transfixed the whole country, the whole world, that has such power and such emotion and overwhelmed everybody. Whoever heard it fell apart and in ten seconds she was a sensation.

Speaker 331:08

Then I was young and unafraid.

Speaker 431:15

Yeah.

Speaker 331:15

When dreams are made and used.

Speaker 331:22

There was no ransom to be paid

Speaker 431:22

There was no wrong.

Presenter31:23

Uh

Speaker 431:23

So

Speaker 331:25

No song unsong, no wine untasted.

Presenter31:35

That was Susan Boyle, and I dreamed a dream. So, Jackie, we come to the point then where I give you the books. I give you the Bible or any other religious text you want to take, and I'll give you the complete works of Shakespeare, and you're allowed to choose another book to take along. What what would you like to choose?

Jackie Mason31:50

Well, I know the Bible very well. I've studied it all my life, and you should never leave it. But I was never impressed with Shakespeare. I I read him more. What everybody thinks is brilliant to me sounds a little ridiculous. Like he says, to be or not to be, this is the question.

Jackie Mason32:06

If somebody said to you to be or not to be, this is the question. Would you you know what you would say? What kind of a question is this? First find out what to be, so you can at least finish the sentence.

Jackie Mason32:17

Two.

Presenter32:17

And what about your book? You get to take a book too then if you if you're not, you know, so cracked on the Shakespeare.

Jackie Mason32:22

I would take uh the works of uh Sholem Alecha.

Jackie Mason32:27

Shon Elichem was the great comedy writer of all time. He was like the Mark Twain of Jewish literature.

Presenter32:33

Ah okay. Well, you may have that book then. And and also I allow you on this island a luxury to make life just a little bit nicer. What luxury would you take to the island?

Jackie Mason32:42

What luxury I would take on the island?

Jackie Mason32:45

Another cheer.

Jackie Mason32:47

I would say another chair so so I can have um more places to sit.

Presenter32:52

Okay. The chip.

Jackie Mason32:53

The chair that moves back and forth, so that I could lie back and sit in front and because the most important thing to me and my ambitions now is to be comfortable. It's my main ambition in life right now.

Presenter33:05

Okay, it sounds uh sounds perfect.

Presenter33:08

It's yours. It's yours, Jackie. And if I'm going to force you now to pick to save just one disc. If the waves were to crash to the the shore and and threaten to wash away the discs, which one disc would you save?

Jackie Mason33:09

Tuesday

Jackie Mason33:19

It's murder for me to pick one, but as long as you told me that I have no choice and I have to pick one, I would say if I had to pick my favorite of all time would be Patsy Klein.

Presenter33:29

Okay. Jackie Mason, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Jackie Mason33:33

You're welcome. This was a wonderful idea.

Presenter34:11

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website: bbc.co. uk slash radio four.