Denise Lewis

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the Olympic gold medalist Denise Lewis. Her discipline was the heptathlon, and it was at the two thousand Sydney Olympics that she leapt, threw, sprinted, and hurdled her way on to the winners' podium.

Presenter0:47

It was the culmination of more than two decades' worth of ambition. Growing up in Wolverhampton, the only child of a single mum, she was just seven years old at the time of the Moscow Games. But she was smitten back then by the gold medal winning performances of Daly Thompson and Sebastian Coe. She says, I thought these people aren't human, they're immortal. Suddenly the light bulb was on. I knew what I wanted to be. Can that possibly be true? At seven, you knew, did you?

Denise Lewis1:14

Absolutely. I was mesmerized. I remember watching those games, just enchanted. I think the moment I remember Sebastian Coe crossing the line and the look of complete

Denise Lewis1:28

Just satisfaction and watching Daly Thompson on the podium winning his gold medal there, also. Obviously, I didn't realise it was the Olympics. I just knew it was a big competition. There were athletes from all over the world competing. I was watching the flags, the colours of their vests, and I just thought to myself, I want to be there. That's what I want to do.

Presenter1:49

And is it also true that you must have been a little bit younger, but that the workers at the nursery that you were first in thought that uh chances were you were going to be the first uh black Prime Minister of Great Britain?

Denise Lewis2:00

I don't know whether someone had some sort of foresight or vision, but my nursery nurse teacher, a lovely lady called Wendy, who my mum is still in contact with today, just said there was something about me, something different to the other children in her care. I've been talking about that.

Presenter2:17

I think did you boss

Denise Lewis2:18

Swimmer boat, maybe.

Denise Lewis2:20

Maybe just a little bit. But I've always had this inner confidence and fortunately for me that's always been nurtured.

Presenter2:27

You're a mother of three now. Any of your kids showing any signs of having uh potential Olympic talent?

Denise Lewis2:34

It's always a difficult question because although you you want so much that one of them will give you that stadium experience, that moment of glory, they all have to develop in their own ways. But maybe, maybe, just maybe, my my son, my little boy, Ryan, who's five,

Denise Lewis2:50

Is involved in a lot of sports, he really enjoys it, and he's pretty skilful.

Presenter2:55

So they'll be clustered round the telly in this Olympic year of of twenty twelve. Uh will you be there watching with them and maybe even thinking back to Moscow in nineteen eighty when it was you sitting there staring at uh all these heroes?

Denise Lewis3:07

I hope so because my kids have a great understanding of the Olympics. My daughter in particular, Lauren, who's nine, she understands that mummy competed at the highest level and she won a gold medal. So fingers crossed if Sedco can wangle me a ticket because I didn't get any in the current ballot that I can apply online. I applied online twice and I was not lucky enough to get any, but hey ho, I know I'll be there.

Presenter3:24

I applied.

Denise Lewis3:31

Because I'll be working for the BBC and I know the British Olympic Association have set aside a couple of tickets for me, so yes, my children will be there.

Presenter3:40

It's the very least they can do, I think, Denise Lewis. Tell me about the first disc we're going to hear today then. Why have you chosen this, and what is it?

Denise Lewis3:46

Well, my first track is by Diana Ross, and it's called Ain't No Mountain High Enough. And this track in particular reminds me of my childhood, sort of seven-stroke, eight-year-old, at my godmother's house with my aunt, with my mum, putting on my grandmother's wigs and running around in makeup and belting this song out at the top of my voice.

Presenter4:39

That was Diana Ross and Ain't No Mountain High Enough. You were busting a few moves to that, Demetrius, when that was going on. And let's look behind then your discipline, the Heptathlon. It sounds to me, just as a bystander, to be incredibly punishing. What have we got? We've got the high jump, got the long jump, got the javelin, shot put, two hundred and eight hundred meters.

Presenter4:58

And the hundred metre hurdles. Why on earth would you pick something that ranges across so many disciplines that are in themselves so very tough?

Denise Lewis5:07

I think it boils down to the fact that I competed for my club, Wolverhampton and Bilston, during my teens and I was always filling in for people that would drop out last minute. So I was a good club athlete, loved it and haven't looked back.

Presenter5:21

You once said after you won your Olympic gold, it felt as if life had somehow speeded up, was more vibrant and colourful than before, but at the same time.

Presenter5:32

I was feeling lost and slightly confused. It was quite a bewildering experience. Tell me about that. What an interesting thought.

Denise Lewis5:39

Well, you spend so many years working towards one particular goal, to become Olympic champion. And when you achieve that, there is this sort of emptiness, this void. You just don't know what to do with yourself. And having experienced such elation, that feeling of standing on the podium, hearing the national anthem, witnessing people being reduced to tears by the effort and the performance.

Denise Lewis6:08

And then there was just this What do I do now?

Presenter6:11

Now.

Denise Lewis6:12

Moment.

Presenter6:12

Was that was that then at the moment of standing on the podium you thought that?

Denise Lewis6:16

This was maybe a few hours later. You know, there's a p the whole procedure is you're you're on the podium, you then get led off into doping control, then there's a whole series of press interviews. Eventually all of that dies down and then you're back on your own in a bus traveling to the athlete's village. It's half past one at night and you're just on your own taking it all in and the world just seems like a

Denise Lewis6:42

very big place and you're just very much on your own.

Presenter6:45

Standing on the podium, then, you were v I mean, notably composed. There was, you know, that electric smile that you have that is truly magnificent. We've seen it when you've been on Strictly Come Dancing, but you know, most people for the first time saw it when you were on that podium. You did seem

Presenter6:59

Very composed. I mean, a lot of people do lose it when they're up later. How did you manage to keep yourself so together?

Denise Lewis7:05

Because I thought about where it had actually come from, it was a moment to reflect on other people that had led me, that had supported me to that moment. And I think it just felt complete. Was your mum in the stadium? She was. Could you see her from the podium? Her face said it all for me. You know, there were tears in her eyes. My coach was crying.

Denise Lewis7:34

And for me it felt like, yes, mum, we've done it together.

Presenter7:38

Yeah,'cause that's quite a journey. You started just the two of you together in in Wolverhampton. T tell me what your mum was like, your earliest memories of her.

Presenter7:46

As a mum.

Denise Lewis7:47

Always working.

Presenter7:49

Right.

Denise Lewis7:49

She was a very much a a working mother. She had me quite young, much to the disappointment of of my grandmother. Really very young. She was seventeen. She was seventeen. Um much to the disappointment of my grandmother. So

Presenter7:55

She was seventeen.

Denise Lewis8:02

To be honest, my mum had to do pretty much on her own because she didn't have that parental support.

Denise Lewis8:09

My grandmother was very disappointed in her. Her stepfather didn't want her in the house as a young pregnant lady and they booted her out. So she had to live in a a hostel for a good few weeks. And then my godmother then said this is not right and then brought her in to the home. So your mum's made of strong stuff then? She's tough. She's tough, she's resilient and she's fiercely independent. And yes, I do get a little bit of my toughness. I saw that look, Kirsty.

Speaker 48:31

Uh

Presenter8:31

Yeah.

Speaker 48:31

Please

Presenter8:32

Yeah.

Denise Lewis8:41

Uh

Presenter8:41

Too obvious to even say it, really, wasn't it? Time for some music again then. We're on our second disc. What are we going to hear?

Denise Lewis8:48

We're going to hear Bob Marley. Again, my family history is from the Caribbean. My mum came over at ten and I've always had this great connection to the Caribbean. So my next track is Is This Love?

Speaker 39:06

But shopping final bread

Speaker 39:10

This love is this love, is this love, is this love that I'm feeling?

Speaker 39:18

Is this now, it's this now, it's this now, it's this now that I'm feeling?

Presenter9:28

That was Bob Marley and Is This Love? Uh Denise Lewis, you went to Jamaica for the first time when you were how old?

Denise Lewis9:34

I was nine years of age, and what an experience.

Denise Lewis9:39

Just taking it all in, you know, the place of my mum's birth and then meeting my great grandmother and her brother for the very first time and all my great grandmother's sisters and looking at my great grandmother for the first time and just being lifted off my feet for this almost bare hug and she just told me how much she loved me and I just thought that was overwhelming.

Presenter10:01

You wrote in your autobiography that yours is the story of a long line of strong women in my family. Wh why is it all about the women?

Denise Lewis10:09

Because sad to say, you know, there's uh this experience that we have as Caribbean families that the men just don't want to stay around. My mother, my grandmother, my great grandmother's sisters were always on their own raising the families, bringing up the children and supporting each other.

Denise Lewis10:31

And it's it's sad, I think, that they have haven't experienced that that loving partnership that people have for fifty, sixty years of their life. They've had to shower their children with love and be the matriarchal figures in the family.

Presenter10:45

And you said that when your mother, very young, became pregnant with you that you know that caused problems with her mother. Do you think that was because her mother expected more? She was aiming, if you like, higher than that for her daughter?

Denise Lewis10:57

I I think so. I think it was all born out of, you know, I came to Britain to give you a better life, to give you opportunities. And I think she must have felt at that time it was a big slap in the face that she's gone and repeated some of the the issues of the past. So was your mother rather strict with you?

Denise Lewis11:19

Very.

Denise Lewis11:20

What's she? Yeah, she was very strict.

Presenter11:22

What were the do's, what were the don'ts?

Denise Lewis11:25

The don'ts were you don't answer back, you do as as I say pretty much. She wanted me to be a respectful young individual and so accept authority without challenging it. I went to church religiously. I think I was a pretty pretty good kid. I respected her and I still do to this day. Do did the don'ts outweigh the do's?

Denise Lewis11:49

I think so. I mean, looking back, I think so. I think she was pretty strict. You know, I couldn't go to many parties without having to beg and beseech.

Presenter11:57

Was she worried about I mean, you know, there you you were, I've looked at the photographs, you know, a beautiful little girl and a very beautiful bigger girl. Was she worried that you would get into trouble?

Denise Lewis12:06

Maybe.

Denise Lewis12:07

I think maybe, but I think she just

Denise Lewis12:10

I was her everything and she didn't want any danger to fall, you know, on my head, so she was very protective.

Presenter12:17

And what about her being on her own then? How much of her did you see?'Cause obviously she as you say, she was out working. What did she work at? She was

Denise Lewis12:24

I was working as a typist clerk. She just worked full time. You know, she'd pick me up from nursery. We'd come back on the bus together and then I'd spend the evening with her. And weekends we were always together, which was nice.

Presenter12:37

Yeah, did you sort of crave her company really? Gu I mean, I know you got on well, obviously you were virtually running the nursery, but did you did you crave her company in the evenings and at weekends?

Denise Lewis12:45

I don't recall that. I I remember a happy childhood. It was literally we were a little team. You know, we'd do the grocery shopping on on a Saturday. I spent a lot of time with her cooking as a child. So all the traditional Caribbean recipes. We had a great relationship.

Presenter13:02

And was she reconciled with her mother then after the initial schism?

Denise Lewis13:06

Yes, she was.

Presenter13:07

And were you close to your grandmother?

Denise Lewis13:09

Very. I was close to my gran.

Denise Lewis13:12

Let's have some more music.

Presenter13:12

Yeah.

Denise Lewis13:13

Yeah.

Presenter13:13

Uh

Denise Lewis13:13

Land Nice Lewis. Track number three.

Denise Lewis13:15

Track number three, my little curveball, but one that reminds me of just that early teens phase when a band called Aha burst onto the scene. I fell in love with Morton Harkett, the lead singer, this iconic video.

Denise Lewis13:32

Just blew me away and from that moment on I became an AHA fan. This is Take On Me.

Speaker 413:38

Talking away.

Speaker 413:41

I don't know what to say, I'll say it anyway.

Speaker 413:46

Today isn't my day to find you shy away.

Speaker 413:52

I'll be coming for your love of game

Presenter14:08

That was aha and take on me. That was from 1985. What would you have been wearing in 1985, Denise Lewis?

Denise Lewis14:14

Some bad outfits, I'm pretty sure, but definitely those leather bands that Morton Harkett used to wear.

Presenter14:22

Oh yeah, yeah.

Denise Lewis14:22

All around the wrist. All around the wrist, some around the neck. And I remember my English teacher, I went into school with them.

Presenter14:25

Yeah.

Denise Lewis14:29

He just said, looked over the top of his glasses, and said, The less the more.

Presenter14:35

Good advice. Very good advice. I mean, in your early teens then, when the athletics was starting to become an important, a serious part of your life, you did this. So it was sort of three hours there and back, this training journey. Tell me about that. How old would you have been?

Denise Lewis14:47

Uh

Presenter14:48

Yeah.

Denise Lewis14:48

I think I would have started that just uh turning fifteen or so. Right. Um, commuting back and forth from school. Um yeah, and yes, it was a a three hour round trip back home in the evenings. How many times a week?

Presenter14:59

How many times a week would you do that?

Denise Lewis15:01

I would do that three times a week, two midweek, Tuesday and Thursday, and then again on Sundays.

Presenter15:08

At that age then, sort of thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, what was it about sports that you liked? Because it has to be said it is is it's boring. I mean, you go and do the same thing all the time to get better and those improvements are often, you know, they're just incremental, just step by step. What appealed to you about it?

Denise Lewis15:25

I think just pushing myself it is all it's always been about me and the performance and how much can I squeeze out of my body.

Denise Lewis15:35

in order to get the best out of myself.

Denise Lewis15:37

So I felt alive.

Denise Lewis15:39

For me it was a means to an end, it was a journey.

Presenter15:42

And was your mother saying to you, you know, you got to buckle down with the school work at the same time?

Denise Lewis15:46

Absolutely. I mean, I'd come home at sort of eight thirty, nine o'clock.

Denise Lewis15:51

off the bus in the train and again, Carranby and this whole family that I I've I've known and loved always want the best for you. And at that time, best was doing your studies, getting the results and making sure that you go to university and make sure you get a good job at the end of it.

Presenter16:04

Yeah.

Presenter16:10

And what about your mother's life? Was it sort of devoted to you?

Denise Lewis16:14

Yeah.

Denise Lewis16:15

Yeah, um

Denise Lewis16:16

I mean, unashamedly, yes, she she has lived.

Denise Lewis16:20

all my career with me every step of the way.

Presenter16:25

More music, then. We're on disc number four, Denise Lewis. Tell me about this. Why have you chosen this?

Denise Lewis16:31

This song for me just takes me back to the Olympics, the whole reason for my existence, for my being, for my direction in life. It's by Whitney Houston. It's called One Moment in Time, and it just says everything about performance and endeavour.

Speaker 416:56

When I play sing with God knee

Speaker 417:07

Sometimes I would be a

Presenter17:19

That was Whitney Houston and One Moment in Time. Your discipline runs over two it's a two-day event, so the concentration has to be immense. I y you've written, and I thought this was astonishing when I read it, just two laps until the emotional and physical strain of the past two days and the last twenty-eight years would be eclipsed by victory or failure.

Presenter17:41

How do you deal with the pressure of that?

Denise Lewis17:44

It's funny, people always ask me how do you how do you do it? How do you keep that focus? But I can only tell you it's it's like a trance like state that you go into because

Denise Lewis17:58

You're just so focussed on the job in hand. You you have to

Denise Lewis18:01

and not allow yourself to think about the the outcome. And so you really stay very much in the now, and that is the only way that you can cope with it. Once you get distracted by either the crowd or the anticipation of winning, that's when you make mistakes.

Presenter18:17

We should remind people, of course, I mean I've sort of jumped straight because of that track, I've jumped straight to the moment of triumph in Sydney, but you'd made this very steady progress, which had been the backbone of your success in your teens and twenties. You'd won a gold in the Commonwealth Games, that was when you were twenty two, a bronze at the Atlanta Olympics, that was a couple of years later, then you got a silver in the World Championships in nineteen ninety nine. When two thousand came along, was there also the knowledge between you and your coach that

Presenter18:45

This was the moment that everything had been leading to these two days.

Denise Lewis18:48

Absolutely. There was a readiness. There was a mental toughness about me with all the experience that I'd had. So even when I became injured ten weeks before the start of that heptathon in Sydney, I was still mentally ready because there was a great sense of now or never.

Presenter19:07

But then, how do you stop your body from letting you down? Because you had this injury, it was an injury on your foot. In simple terms, what was wrong with your foot?

Denise Lewis19:13

My Achilles tendon just decided to play up and I could not walk.

Presenter19:14

Just decided

Denise Lewis19:17

But how do you get through? I got through because of people that dedicated their time to getting me better.

Presenter19:24

I mean, an Achilles, people need to rest up when their Achilles is gone. Absolutely.

Denise Lewis19:29

I'm sorry.

Denise Lewis19:31

And that's the reality. I I didn't do the running that I would have done had I been healthy. I had two arms, so I did a lot of upper body weights, but I physically couldn't do anything with my lower half of my body because I was on crutches and I was taped up every single day.

Denise Lewis19:50

But I made a decision.

Denise Lewis19:52

I have to give it all I have. I could not just quit at that point. I had to give it my best shot. No one really knew I was injured. I kept very quiet about it going into the games because I didn't want to give that psychological advantage to my competitors. So I would keep my long bottoms on, but I'd take my top off so they could see that I was lean and ready. So I had to play the game.

Denise Lewis20:16

It's your posture, it's constantly working your body in different angles, that tone, even the little muscles that we or you probably don't use in your everyday.

Presenter20:25

Every day.

Presenter20:28

You look to be in great shape today. What do you do now?

Denise Lewis20:31

Uh I mean presumably you still train. Yes I do but not as much as obviously I used to. But if I can do two or three times a week of forty-five minutes to an hour and that would be using the microstrainer or cycling on my road bike or my rowing machine and circuits then I'm happy. Just a bit of fun really. Just a little bit of fun and a bit of vanity.

Presenter20:54

A little bit more music then, Denise Lewis. We're on our fifth disc of the morning. What are we going to hear?

Denise Lewis20:59

Well, I mentioned my children earlier on. My oldest daughter is called Lauren, spelt exactly like this next artist, Lauren Hill. The track is Zion, and it just reminds me of the moment that I gave birth to my daughter.

Speaker 421:15

Look at your career they said Lauren baby use your head But instead I chose to use my heart Now the joy

Speaker 421:28

Yeah, my

Speaker 421:31

This answer

Speaker 421:35

Yeah, the

Presenter21:44

That was Lauren Hill and to Zion, and that was for your eldest child, your daughter, Lauren. She was born in 2002, and we heard Lauren Hill there say that as she was having her baby, she wrote the song about it. She said, Look at your career, they said, and there you were at a time when you still had this big career. Did did you have any doubt about going ahead and having a baby? Yeah.

Denise Lewis22:05

Yeah.

Presenter22:05

Um I did.

Denise Lewis22:06

I spoke to some of my closest girlfriends, my mother obviously, and absolutely my coach.

Denise Lewis22:14

Charles at the time who

Denise Lewis22:16

When I did tell him I was pregnant,

Denise Lewis22:20

He was disappointed, to say the least, and he really felt that.

Denise Lewis22:26

It was lousy timing.

Denise Lewis22:28

Yeah, that did take me by surprise, but

Denise Lewis22:31

I sort of re-expected it because he was very much about performance and he still felt that our job was undone.

Denise Lewis22:39

Uh

Presenter22:39

And you parted company. Did you I mean, did you leave him, or did he leave you?

Denise Lewis22:42

It was sort of mutual. He wasn't happy with me. He felt that I was not going to be as focussed as I used to be, that I was allowing other things to take over. I wasn't concentrating.

Denise Lewis22:55

which I felt at the time was very harsh because I was still committed to my sport, but life had thrown me a a different challenge and I wanted to meet that challenge and have my child.

Presenter23:08

I mean, you had achieved by that stage, as we know, the great pinnacle. You had achieved Olympic gold. Why did you want to go on with your career? I mean, for most people.

Presenter23:17

That would absolutely be enough. That would be the definition of success.

Denise Lewis23:22

Because

Denise Lewis23:23

I was an athlete. It's something that you are and I felt that there was still more to give. You know, I used to have on the top of my training schedule that I have two Olympic gold medals in me and I'm going to do all that I can to get them.

Presenter23:38

So you made a decision at that point which I mean was you know it was widely criticised. You found uh a new coach, his name was Eckhart Arbit, and he was very well qualified, he was recognised by the British athletic authorities, but his reputation had been destroyed because he was at the centre of the wide use of anabolic steroids in the East German Olympic team. How much of that did you know when you got in tow with him? Because it seems, looking at it from the outside, like a very odd decision for somebody of your caliber.

Denise Lewis24:06

Yes, and I mean at the time I did not know about his past.

Presenter24:11

Right.

Denise Lewis24:12

Um but when someone presented me a dossier of

Denise Lewis24:17

sort of Eckhart's past, I really had to sit down and make a decision whether I'm gonna let someone's sort of tainted past

Denise Lewis24:27

Jeopardize my future of getting back into the sport. And at that point, you're already training with him? Yes, at that point, I was already training with him. And you've got a young baby? I've got a young baby.

Presenter24:35

So what does your week look like? Where are you? What are you doing?

Denise Lewis24:38

I was living in Belgium. Lauren's father is Belgian. So I was living with him, training in Belgium, commuting to Germany, but still having my flat in central London. I was driving a lot on the roads, just trying to keep things going.

Presenter24:57

Um what did that feel like? Because uh, you know, clearly w we've all got a flavor of the strength of character that you have, that you you know, you've got a s a streak of steel running right through you to have been able to do the stuff you have. What did that feel like though? Because to me that sounds like somebody who might be about to

Presenter25:11

Fall apart.

Denise Lewis25:12

How I didn't, um looking back, I I God only knows because uh I had this this m immense scrutiny um from the British press. No one pointed the finger at me or suggested any drug use in f about me. It was just why would you make this decision to train with this man?

Presenter25:28

Yeah, it was.

Denise Lewis25:32

I felt at the time I didn't have many options. He was a good coach and I wanted to use his services. Did you feel very let down by the British Athletics Authority? Peace. I felt very let down.

Denise Lewis25:44

very much by the British authorities and by the British media to a large extent, because it felt like a personal attack. It was like a witch hunt almost. Let's have some more music then, Denise Lewis. What's next?

Denise Lewis25:59

Well, my next track is an interesting one and it's a very recent choice for me because it just highlights the joys of motherhood for me. I have three beautiful children and my middle one thinks he is the fifth member of JLS. He loves this band, he loves the boys, it's JLS and she makes me wanna.

Speaker 426:23

Pizza.

Speaker 426:35

Getting on

Speaker 426:38

She makes me wanna love

Speaker 426:42

Makes me wonder

Speaker 426:45

It makes me running up, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Speaker 426:49

Right.

Presenter26:52

That was JLS and she makes me wanna. Do you play that in the car for your kids? I do. Yeah, really, really loud.

Speaker 426:57

Yeah, really.

Presenter26:58

Yes, loader mummy.

Denise Lewis26:58

Yes, loader.

Speaker 427:00

Uh I'm a

Presenter27:01

And you were how old, thirty three when you retired? Yes. And you said that the year after that w it was like looking into an abyss.

Denise Lewis27:10

Very much so. Tell me more. I just felt like who who am I? What do I do?

Denise Lewis27:16

How will I call myself? There's the worst moment for me was when you have to fill out any form and they put your oc put your oc occupation down. And I was used to just kind of.

Denise Lewis27:26

Tap my fingers thinking, Well, what am I?

Denise Lewis27:30

Very strange sensation.

Presenter27:31

Do you think c can you look back now at the success you've had and be

Presenter27:36

Fulfilled. Think

Presenter27:37

Okay, at the top of my training schedule it said I am a twice gold Olympic winner to just look at the one and say I won once, and that's good enough.

Denise Lewis27:47

Yes, because I think

Denise Lewis27:50

I feel very privileged.

Denise Lewis27:52

to have led the life I have.

Denise Lewis27:55

and I'm satisfied, I'm satisfied with my accomplishments.

Denise Lewis27:59

I try to look at that medal and say, you know what, you gave it everything and you deserve it.

Presenter28:05

Do you compete in the mothers race at the School Sports Day?

Denise Lewis28:08

I send it the back.

Presenter28:09

Do you stand up? 300 metres per hundred.

Denise Lewis28:12

At least, you know, three people deep, so I'm not sort of jostled to take part. But I did do one. Did you? Yes, for my son's school. It was balancing a beanbag on your head. And I thought, okay, I'll do it. And I started off, but you had to walk.

Denise Lewis28:31

So this woman sort of started challenging me a little bit and I thought, Okay, so we were both waddling down this stretch of grass with the beanbag on our head and I was thinking, Denise, how shameful the competitive juices, you just can't turn them off, can you?

Presenter28:45

You didn't take the meddler along and just say, Eat that, I've got my taste.

Denise Lewis28:48

I dipped. I absolutely dipped, making sure that I got the victory.

Presenter28:53

Do your children appreciate what you've done? Or do I mean, you know, all children obviously find their parents chronically embarrassing. Do your children think well, actually, my mum's not so embarrassing because she was an Olympic gold medallist?

Denise Lewis29:05

I think Lauren sort of has me

Denise Lewis29:08

A little bit on a pedestal, but I try to make sure that she has a very balanced view of her mother. To let her know that I've made absolute mistakes and I don't always get things right. I think it's important that she understands that. And I also encourage her to try other things, you know, speech and drama, a little bit of music, to find where her real passions lie and where her strengths lie. And what are your mistakes? What are the ones that stand out?

Presenter29:35

Yeah.

Denise Lewis29:37

I think with hindsight, training with Eckhart, coming back from, you know, having a baby, which is.

Denise Lewis29:45

Is traumatic in its own right. To then give myself another dose of stress and trauma was is possibly quite foolish, but this is what uh the stubborn gene does to you. You just think, I'm going to do it, and you know, I don't care what people say. So, more music, Denise Lewis. Disc number seven.

Presenter30:03

Yeah.

Denise Lewis30:04

What is it?

Presenter30:04

Yeah.

Denise Lewis30:05

Number seven is An Artist Called India Iri.

Denise Lewis30:10

Beautiful, beautiful vocals and this track in particular was the one that I walked down the aisle to marry my wonderful husband Stephen. This is called Ready for Love.

Speaker 430:29

Would you please lend me your ear?

Speaker 430:37

I promise I won't complain.

Speaker 430:45

I just need you to acknowledge I am

Presenter30:53

That was India Iri and Ready for Love. You walked down the aisle to that, you were saying to Nice Lewis. There couldn't have been a dry eye in the house, I'm sure. There was.

Denise Lewis31:00

And my mother walked me down the aisle, which was a really special moment for me, having not had a father in my life. She absolutely adores my husband. And you talk about being ready for love. I think really I was so ready.

Presenter31:15

And what about not having a father in your life at all? What what has that meant to you?

Denise Lewis31:21

I think I have missed out on things because men do bring a different perspective on things in the household. But as a kid I didn't know any differently, so you just go with what you've got and accept what you've got. And I think, if anything, I would just have liked someone to be able to give my mum a little bit more support and that she didn't have to quite work as hard as she did.

Presenter31:43

Would it be reasonable to wonder whether in any part of your enormous success there is a bit of you saying I am here, I exist to the person who ducked out early on?

Denise Lewis31:53

Well, he's no longer with us. You know, he passed away back in 1998, so he didn't even see my Sydney performance. Right. But.

Denise Lewis32:02

At the same time, I sort of respect him for not trying to get involved in my life as my career started to develop, but I'm sure he was watching because he very much knew who I was.

Presenter32:13

I'm sure he was watching. More than anyone, the person who's been with you on your extraordinary journey is your mother. You know, you started alone together and now she's a grandmother to your children and

Presenter32:23

Have you seen her change over the years? How has she reacted to this extraordinary life you've had?

Denise Lewis32:28

I think she really is an amazing woman because I've witnessed her change, almost grow as a person from this very angry young woman who felt that she it was her against the world, trying to bring up her baby, to the most incredible giving grandmother and happy woman. And I'm very proud of the things that she's achieved.

Presenter32:54

Let's have your final track for the day, Denise Lewis. What are we going to hear now?

Denise Lewis32:58

We are going to listen to Mariah Carey. We're going to put on our dancing shoes and get down to the funky beat of It's Like That. It reminds me of my girlfriends. Although I'm an only child, I have fantastic girlfriends. Mariah Carey is a guilty pleasure that we love to dance to, and here it is.

Speaker 433:19

Came to have a party Open off that Bacardi Feeling so hot tomaly Boy, I never been watching me, so what's it gonna be? Burbo, taking me higher, I'm lifted and I like it. Boy, you got me inspired, baby, come and get it, baby, really feelin' me.

Speaker 433:43

No stress, no time.

Presenter33:49

Mariah Carey, and it's like that little guilty pleasure for you on the island there, Denise Lewis. So I come to the point when I'm going to give you the books. I'm going to give you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and the other book is going to be what?

Presenter34:01

Uh

Denise Lewis34:02

It's going to be

Presenter34:02

Yeah.

Presenter34:03

Uh

Denise Lewis34:03

Oprah Winfrey's autobiography, I think she's an amazing woman.

Presenter34:09

Do you feel a sort of kindredship with her? do you think?

Denise Lewis34:11

I do. I think I feel a connection because of her resilience and being a presenter in America as a black female that's just risen completely to the top does resonate.

Presenter34:25

Okay, that's your book, and a luxury too.

Denise Lewis34:27

Oh.

Denise Lewis34:28

It's got to be.

Denise Lewis34:30

The pack of Sex in the City D V D's. I love those girls of Sex in the City. I will have lots of hours of laughter and joy.

Presenter34:41

Yeah.

Denise Lewis34:42

I'm looking forward to

Presenter34:43

Right, I'll give you the complete box set, however many hours that might be. And if you had to choose just one of the eight discs to save from the waves, which one would it be?

Presenter34:53

That's a really tough question.

Denise Lewis34:54

Question.

Denise Lewis34:56

But I think it will be

Denise Lewis34:59

India Irie, ready for love.

Presenter35:01

It's yours, Denise Lewis. Thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Denise Lewis35:05

Thank you.

Presenter35:05

Yeah.

Denise Lewis35:05

Uh

Presenter35:05

Uh

Presenter35:42

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio Four.