Robert Hardy

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the actor Robert Hardy.

Presenter0:37

His career on stage, T V and film has spanned sixty years.

Robert Hardy0:41

Mm-hmm.

Presenter0:42

How many more?

Robert Hardy0:43

Well, it started in January 1949 at Stratford, so my mathematics are not good. Yeah. So you can work it out for me.

Presenter0:50

Yeah.

Presenter0:51

Sixty old years. We see

Robert Hardy0:52

Yeah.

Presenter0:54

I'll go on. The requirements for such enduring success a certain amount of talent, luck, a spine of steel, he says, and a ruthlessness of mind that does not jib at murder. He studied under CS Lewis and Tolkien at Oxford, but after national service left the university with a shabby degree, his words again, along with an ambition to act and a lasting friendship with Richard Burton.

Presenter1:18

He's taken on the great stage roles, including Henry V and Hamlet, and his film credits range from Jane Austen to John Le Carrie.

Presenter1:25

To the younger audience he's the Minister of Magic in the Harry Potter films, whilst those of us who are slightly longer in the tooth remember his BAFTA winning Winston Churchill.

Presenter1:34

But the role that made him a household name was Siegfried Farnan in the hugely popular T V series All Creatures, Great and Small. And is it right, Robert Hardy, that when you first read the James Heriot books you you thought a T V adaptation would bore the towns and annoy the country? Yes, it's exactly what I said. Yes, you're entirely wrong, of course.

Robert Hardy1:55

Well, I was, thank goodness.

Robert Hardy1:57

And both town and country in their different ways it rather enjoyed it.

Presenter2:02

When did you know you had

Robert Hardy2:02

The hiss on your hand. I don't think the BBC was ever sure they had.

Robert Hardy2:07

Because we used to do, um, a year or nine months, whatever it was, and then there'd be a break.

Robert Hardy2:14

While they chewed their fingernails and thought shall we do some more.

Robert Hardy2:18

But w it was wonderful for people like me because I did a year and then I went off and did something else.

Presenter2:26

And by the time you got to All Creatures, Great and Small, we should remind people, of course, that you had a a long list of very impressive credits already behind you. You played opposite Laurence Livier with Coriolanus, you joined Judy Dench and Henry V. You were the first David Copperfield to meet as on our T V screens. The Henry V you did with Judy Dench, when you were combining your hearts and realms, I had a little look at it yesterday.

Speaker 12:42

Screen

Speaker 22:43

True.

Speaker 12:43

Uh

Presenter2:50

You looked like you really were entering into the part with uh gusto, I'm I'm thinking of particularly when it came to kissing her.

Robert Hardy2:57

Oh, yeah, that's absolutely true. In fact, I'm always in and out of love, but um

Robert Hardy3:02

That scene.

Robert Hardy3:04

With Judy, I really had trouble with because she was so delicious.

Robert Hardy3:10

and played it so superbly. And as you said, I I mean, the great joy of acting is getting into the part, whatever it is. That's why I love playing.

Speaker 13:17

No.

Robert Hardy3:21

parts of people who've actually lived, like

Robert Hardy3:24

Henry V., Winston Churchill, whatever it may be, you know because finding one's way in by whatever methods into the character set you feel you know him you feel you know how he walked whatever.

Robert Hardy3:40

I thought, uh, is the joy of it much more than actually.

Robert Hardy3:45

Messing about in front of the camera, but that scene with Judy had got me really hot under the collar.

Presenter3:51

Yes, I well she she herself looked rather hot under the collar too, I have to say well. Yes, she did. That's two good actors actually.

Robert Hardy3:54

Did you well

Speaker 23:55

Yeah.

Presenter3:58

Um anyway

Presenter4:00

Thirty years, then, since All Creatures, Great and Small was first screened, and the B B C we hear are are currently filming some more James Herriot stories for us to enjoy. Do you think it's a good idea for television to go back, or would you rather, as an actor, see them do new and fresh stuff?

Robert Hardy4:14

Well, I think it's an interesting idea, and they won't let go now that they've at last realized it was a success.

Robert Hardy4:22

They won't take their teeth out of it.

Presenter4:25

You knew the character you played, yes. And is it indeed the case that his friends thought you got him bang on, but he just couldn't see it at all? He thought you got him.

Robert Hardy4:26

Oh, very well.

Robert Hardy4:33

hated what I did, and so did his wife. We were great friends. We remain great friends.

Robert Hardy4:40

He said Now, look here, when you when you're in Yorkshire, if you don't come and see me, I shall find out where you've been, and I shall be very angry.

Robert Hardy4:48

So one day I rang him up.

Robert Hardy4:50

when I was about an hour away and said um

Robert Hardy4:54

Can I come and see you? and he said you'll be late for lunch. Never mind, never mind. Come along.

Robert Hardy4:58

I've got some good friends here, and I arrived and he was expatiating about how awful I was.

Robert Hardy5:05

So I asked him who he'd like to have done it, and he said, Well, somebody with charm and good manners. I mean, really, if one thinks of it, Rex Harrison, I suppose.

Robert Hardy5:15

I thought what that go odd.

Speaker 25:17

Yeah, it's not sad.

Robert Hardy5:17

But as you kindly said, uh his friends used to come.

Presenter5:18

But

Robert Hardy5:21

when they saw me being upset by his attacks.

Robert Hardy5:25

They would come and say nap.

Robert Hardy5:27

Don't take any notice of him. You've got him.

Robert Hardy5:29

Yeah.

Presenter5:29

Time for some music, Robert Hardy. Tell us what we're going to hear fur

Robert Hardy5:31

First off today

Presenter5:32

Yeah. Uh

Robert Hardy5:33

A most wonderful number sung by Pearl Bailey from a production in uh in 1955 in New York, which was a complete flop. It was um directed by Peter Brooke, A House of Flowers. But this is um What is a Friend for?

Robert Hardy5:55

From the House of Love.

Speaker 15:56

What is a friend for?

Speaker 16:00

Should a friend bolt the door?

Speaker 16:04

When trouble knocks and the cradle rocks, Is a friend just a metaphor? For good times and nothing more A friendship's never complete.

Speaker 16:18

On a one-way street.

Speaker 26:21

Uh

Speaker 16:21

Yeah.

Speaker 16:22

Takes a two-way test to bring out the best All the rest is just sheer botany

Presenter6:31

That was Pearl Bailey and What is a Friend For from the Musical House of Flowers. So you have, as I said in the introduction, acquired this whole new audience with the Harry Potter movies. Uh you played, of course, the Minister of Magic, Cornelius Fudge.

Presenter6:43

In four of the films we should remind people, of course, of the incredible cast that accompanied you those Maggie Smiths, Robbie Coltrane, Miriam Margolies, Julie Walters. It sounds like that must have been a blast, was it, working on those big movies?

Robert Hardy6:54

Music was so many of the people I was with I knew pretty well. We behaved quite badly, I think, because we knew each other so well, but I the the result was okay. He was a fudgy politician, trying to play both ends down the middle.

Presenter7:11

What do you mean you behave quite badly? What did you go to?

Robert Hardy7:13

Well, we used to be giggling, you know, and they I think directors one after another got rather sick of us.

Presenter7:18

Is that why they kept changing the directives?

Robert Hardy7:21

Hey.

Presenter7:22

Probably was.

Robert Hardy7:23

Uh

Presenter7:23

You're 86 now, and you were written out earlier from the films than the character was in the books. Why was that?

Robert Hardy7:24

You are

Robert Hardy7:30

Well, it's insurance that kicks old actors like me out of the game because um I mean I was insured for over a million at some point or as the last film or the one before and they would have wanted to put it up, the insurers. So Warner Brothers, um who were short of cash of course uh said uh

Robert Hardy7:50

Very sadly. I mean, there was a day when

Robert Hardy7:54

Three producers.

Robert Hardy7:56

got on to a party telephone and rang me up and said, We dunno how we're going to say this but I'd already sort of sussed it out, and said No, I know, I know, I know.

Presenter8:07

Yeah.

Robert Hardy8:07

Uh

Presenter8:07

Yeah.

Robert Hardy8:07

In a sec.

Presenter8:07

Okay.

Presenter8:08

You ma mentioned when we were talking about Cornelius Fudge there that he was this sort of brilliant fudgy politician managing both ends. And of course, the politician that you are always associated with is Churchill, the BAFTA Award winning series, The Wilderness Years.

Speaker 18:18

What will you see?

Speaker 18:20

Yeah.

Presenter8:21

How do you manage to nail it without it either being an impersonation or a parody? Where do you begin with that?

Robert Hardy8:28

I've fought and fought and fought not to do it.

Robert Hardy8:31

But um I suggested masses of other people who might have done it.

Presenter8:35

Why did you not want to do it?

Robert Hardy8:36

Well, I just didn't think I was anywhere near it. I just didn't think I had the capacity or anything.

Presenter8:42

The brilliant performance, a lot of it was in the jaw and the mouth. What did you have a sort of set to the jaw that you

Robert Hardy8:48

Oh no, I had um my dentist at that time.

Robert Hardy8:53

uh knew about the dentist who

Robert Hardy8:56

Dealt with Churchill.

Robert Hardy8:58

And he made me a plate.

Robert Hardy9:02

which fitted close I was

Robert Hardy9:05

constantly trying to overcome

Robert Hardy9:08

Site

Robert Hardy9:09

thing and there was a time when we were filming in America

Robert Hardy9:13

and I took it out in the Arizona desert and put it down on the table. It was snatched almost immediately by a one of those sort of wild dogs.

Speaker 29:22

Right.

Robert Hardy9:23

And uh that was the end of the plate, but I needed it.

Robert Hardy9:27

To begin with there's something to overcome.

Presenter9:29

Fascinating. Let's have some music then. Our second disc of the day, Robert. What are we going to hear?

Presenter9:34

I'd love

Robert Hardy9:34

I'd like to hear the second movement of Beethoven's seventh.

Presenter9:38

And tell me why you've chosen this.

Robert Hardy9:41

Because when I was still at school.

Robert Hardy9:45

I got permission to go to a concert, I think it was in Leicester, where the London Philharmonic was playing uh the Bruch.

Robert Hardy9:55

Violin concerto number one, followed by the Beethoven seventh.

Robert Hardy10:00

and I was so entranced by it that I went and saw them afterwards, and they said they were short of money, so I went back, and in my house at school I managed to raise a small, a tiny sum of money, which I sent to them in an envelope.

Robert Hardy10:22

And they were so thrilled they said we're coming to play at your school.

Robert Hardy10:26

Would you like to choose the programme?

Robert Hardy10:29

So away I went, and I chose the Bruch Wahlen concerto, followed by the Beethoven Sevens, and they kindly played it. It was simply thrilling.

Presenter11:35

That was the second movement of Beethoven's Seventh Symphony in A major, performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Artudo Toscanini. That was recorded in nineteen thirty-five. I have a vision of you as this teenager. You say you're round about fifteen, nineteen forty, and so you were so enthralled by what you'd heard that you raised the money. You were a passionate teenager then, were you?

Robert Hardy11:55

Oh yeah, I'm a passionate creature.

Presenter11:57

You are, aren't you? Yes.

Robert Hardy11:58

Yeah, I think so, yes.

Presenter12:00

But being a passionate person can be a difficult thing to live with, has it sort of ruled you through your life, do you think?

Robert Hardy12:05

Oh yes, it's hell.

Robert Hardy12:07

Absolute hell.

Presenter12:10

As an adult you can kind of understand them and at least try to manage them a little, but as a child that must have been quite tricky. I think people found it extremely tricky.

Robert Hardy12:18

Yes, I mean, there was a time, I know, when I was sent to

Robert Hardy12:21

No, advice was taken from. I never was actually confronted by an eminent psychiatrist. And it did no good, of course.

Presenter12:30

What were you doing to worry your parents to that degree?

Robert Hardy12:33

I suppose being rebellious, tiresome, um exploding, you know, all sorts of things. It's no use moaning about them now, it's too late, anyway.

Presenter12:40

Uh

Presenter12:43

I don't want you to mourn about them, but I think I it's an interesting way to live and often a very difficult way to live, to to be a hostage to your passions, like

Robert Hardy12:51

Yes, I think you're right. Yes, nobody's ever been so forthright. I dare say the psychiatrist would have been. Have you ever thought of being a psychiatrist? No, absolutely not. I think you might be very good.

Presenter13:00

But I think you

Presenter13:01

Well, in that case, tell me about your mother.

Robert Hardy13:03

Oh, well, she was wonderful. She had to go through it all. But, um,

Robert Hardy13:09

I think about her playing the violin, which she didn't do half-badly.

Presenter13:14

You were the youngest of s six children. Yeah. Describe the the household then to me. How did you get on at home?

Robert Hardy13:16

Yeah.

Robert Hardy13:20

I got on very well, really. I mean, being the youngest, I was spoilt, and all my siblings said um you're spoilt, and I dare say I was.

Presenter13:31

And so you went to school you you were sent to boarding school at what age, round, about eight probably wasn't. Eight, I'm afraid, yeah. Yes. And that made you sad and annoyed. You bet.

Robert Hardy13:35

That's it.

Robert Hardy13:37

Yes.

Robert Hardy13:38

Okay.

Robert Hardy13:40

Did it? Yeah, it made me extremely sad.

Robert Hardy13:45

They said it was one of the best boarding schools, uh uh p prep schools as they were called, uh, in the country, but I thought it was absolute

Presenter13:53

And in those days, of course, you just would have to buck up your ideas, would you?

Robert Hardy13:59

Yes. I mean, I wrote, I know, endless letters home begging to be reprieved, as one might write from prison.

Speaker 214:08

Right.

Robert Hardy14:08

Right. But uh it was thought that uh it was better for me to grow up and face the music and all those good phrases.

Presenter14:16

You're a father of three yourself. I'm imagining you probably didn't send them to boarding school then, did you? Not at that age. Right.

Robert Hardy14:23

No, they went locally.

Presenter14:25

Let's have some music then, Robert Hardy. Tell me about this third disc.

Robert Hardy14:29

Yeah.

Presenter14:29

Yeah.

Robert Hardy14:31

Anyhow, that extraordinary lady who who recorded and over recorded herself and then over recorded again. And this um makes me think of uh a time when uh I was passionately in love and played it again and again and again. But also it has

Robert Hardy14:49

a connection because the one uh the piece I want played is called The Long Ships and this has a Scandinavian connection and uh I have uh deep connections with Scandinavia.

Presenter15:34

That was Enya and the Long Ships. And we shall go from Long Ships to Long Bows, Robert Hardy. It is a a fascinating fact about you that around about forty years ago you you wrote a book on long bows that has never been out of print. Where did the fascination begin?

Robert Hardy15:49

I think it began when I was about six, and I found two longbows in the attic, broken they weren't broken then, I broke'em very swiftly. And I wanted to know all about it from then on. So you had a go

Presenter16:03

So you had to go

Robert Hardy16:04

When you broke them, did you? Yeah, I had a gun, I broke them, yeah.

Presenter16:05

Yeah.

Presenter16:06

Now, let me get this right. At the same time that you were busy filming All Creatures Great and Small, you were also asked, because of your historical knowledge and expertise, to be an adviser as the Mary Rose was being lifted from the seabed. Tell me about that.

Robert Hardy16:20

Before she was lifted. Right. Because they emptied her first, you know. Right. And Margaret Rule, who was the spirit and drive behind the whole thing, she had on her desk piles of books covering every discipline she was going to have to learn about. And when the first one came up, somebody said, I think it's a pike staff. She took a look and said, No, it isn't. It's a longbow. Now, wait a minute. Who is this man? Reaching for this first book I'd written. And she said, Who is this man? Get hold of him.

Robert Hardy16:53

And I went down and saw the first longbow and the first arrows up from the Mary Rose, and I practised fainted with excitement. Eventually

Robert Hardy17:02

They were handed over to me, and I had a hundred and thirty eight of them to look after, to clean, to investigate, to restore.

Robert Hardy17:11

I had him in my cellar, uninsured, for something like eight years.

Presenter17:16

Uh

Robert Hardy17:16

Poeta was

Presenter17:16

Responsibility.

Robert Hardy17:16

Yeah.

Robert Hardy17:17

Well, yes, if you go Why divide it upon?

Presenter17:20

So it was rugby school and then on to Oxford and to to study you were you wanted to study history, but you did in fact end up reading English.

Robert Hardy17:29

This I did because my tutor at school said if you switch for your last year.

Robert Hardy17:34

To English, you'll have C. S. Lewis as your tutor in college and J. R. R. Tolkien as your Anglo-Saxon tutor. So who?

Presenter17:43

Wooden switch. Yes, not bad names to bat about. Um, how did you get on with both of them? Loved them both. What about Tolkien? Is it true that he taught he taught you in the pub?

Presenter17:51

He did on

Robert Hardy17:51

On several occasions, yes, he did. One m magic occasion when he said next week, Tuesday.

Robert Hardy17:59

Eleven o'clock in The Burden Baby.

Robert Hardy18:02

which is the Eagle and Child, and I went past it the other day at a table in the window round which he sat us.

Robert Hardy18:10

still there. I was absolutely thrilled. I stopped and just gawked through the window. There it was in all the chairs we sat in. He ranged us in front of him with his back to the window, and covered his eyes, and made us talk one by one.

Robert Hardy18:23

Come on, don't be shy. I want to I want to hear more more, more, more. Then he analyzed us, one by one, what part of the country we came from. It was an absolutely brilliant display. Um he said Now you want to know why we'd played that parlor game, and the reason is because I want you to believe me.

Robert Hardy18:41

When I say this is how

Robert Hardy18:44

Anglo-Saxon sounded.

Robert Hardy18:47

The drachtomerch hath pursed to the root

Robert Hardy18:51

And bath at every vine in switch liqueur Of which virtu engenderate is the floor.

Robert Hardy18:56

and Zephyrus, etcetera. etcetera.

Robert Hardy19:00

And it was extraordinary, and Cosbun did believe him.

Robert Hardy19:03

It's Anglo-Saxon.

Presenter19:04

I know. If only I could speak Anglo-Saxon, we could do the whole of the rest of the programme in it. Wouldn't that be fun? We'd need talking here. I've just about got menu French, I'm sorry to tell you. I certainly don't have Anglo-Saxon. So let's have in instead, Robert Hardy, um some music.

Robert Hardy19:08

Wouldn't that be fun?

Robert Hardy19:12

Yeah.

Presenter19:17

Can we have this?

Robert Hardy19:18

The uh the waltz from the beginning of the I suppose you'd call it the second movement of Berlioz. I love Berlioz. His uh Symphonie Fantastique.

Presenter20:30

That was the waltz from the Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz with the Paris Orchestra conducted by Semyon Bitchkoff. Um you left Oxford then determined to become an actor. Wh where had that passion really begun?

Robert Hardy20:43

I think at the beginning I think I emerged as an actor.

Robert Hardy20:47

Really. I think I was dissatisfied with what I'd found.

Robert Hardy20:52

and uh decided to become other people.

Presenter20:54

What do you mean you were dissatisfied with what?

Robert Hardy20:56

I didn't think much of myself.

Presenter20:56

Yeah.

Presenter20:57

Yeah.

Robert Hardy21:00

I said, I want to be another one, a different one.

Robert Hardy21:04

I don't know, I don't know. I just love the idea of being other people. But, um, I think one of my aunts was married when I was about five, I suppose, and I was dressed in satin and was to hold hold the loop on one side of the end of her very long train, and uh a girl who I knew very well was to hold the loop at the other end, and then she had conniptions, I mean a complete sort of breakdown, refused to carry her bit of the train. So everybody turned round to me and said

Robert Hardy21:39

Spread your arms out. Oh, I think you can do it.

Robert Hardy21:43

So uh at full stretch

Robert Hardy21:45

I walked down the aisle holding a loop in either hand, with my head held high, and, as I went, every eye was turned towards me, and something inside me said

Robert Hardy21:57

That's it.

Presenter21:58

Get every eye on you. And so you you emerged from Oxford with this you did say a shabby degree. What did you get as a third?

Robert Hardy22:06

Yes, I got a third, yeah, right. That's'cause I was acting. That was coming back after the war.

Presenter22:07

Right.

Robert Hardy22:11

And I did nothing but act.

Presenter22:12

You were part of that generation, of course, we should remind people, whose studies were interrupted by the war. You left Oxford to train with the RAF. By the time you came back, the the bomb had been dropped on Nagasaki and and you didn't see active service.

Robert Hardy22:22

The bomb

Speaker 122:24

I did.

Robert Hardy22:24

You didn't see

Presenter22:26

And and how did your parents welcome the news that their son wanted to be an actor?

Robert Hardy22:30

Oh, well, they they were perfectly, um

Robert Hardy22:34

Calm about it.

Presenter22:35

Did they come to watch?

Robert Hardy22:36

Yeah.

Robert Hardy22:37

And when I rather startled London.

Robert Hardy22:40

playing Prince Hal at the Old Vic in nineteen fifty three, I think it was, something like that. They were both um thrilled. Sparkling eyes and all that, you know, surprise, surprise.

Presenter22:50

Let's have some music then, Robert Hardy. Our fifth disc of the day is what?

Presenter22:57

Well

Robert Hardy22:57

This is

Presenter22:58

Is the one

Robert Hardy22:58

piece that's left. I find it so difficult, I'm sure all your victims, all your friends who join you find it really difficult. In my case it's difficult'cause my head is constantly full of music.

Presenter23:04

Thank you.

Presenter23:11

Right.

Robert Hardy23:12

But this piece, which is by Francis Poulanc from his Petit Suite Francaise, was written specifically for the theatre, which is one of the reasons why it's included. Also, it makes me cry every time I hear it.

Robert Hardy23:28

The play was called Larine Margot.

Presenter24:33

The Sicilienne from Poulanck's Suite Francaise, performed by the National Orchestra of France, conducted by Charles Dutroy. You have said, Robert Hardy, that you believe that an actor has to be stripped down, clean as a rocket, and must have no other interest. Do you stand by that?

Robert Hardy24:50

I've said many, many foolish things in my life, and that I think is probably among the most foolish. Because in fact the more accretions that an actor can achieve, the better actor he's likely to be.

Presenter25:05

One of your best friends was uh Richard Burton, who you you met uh at Oxford. W what was he like as a young man?

Robert Hardy25:12

Oh, absolutely compelling and extraordinary

Robert Hardy25:16

Man, actually that quote.

Robert Hardy25:19

About stripping down being a rock, it was in a letter I wrote to Richard.

Speaker 225:23

Yes.

Robert Hardy25:24

I wrote him endless letters on that sort of theme.

Robert Hardy25:27

which he very patiently endured, but I think they must have bored him to death, because he was instinctive, speedy, quick.

Robert Hardy25:36

passionate in a totally different way from me.

Presenter25:39

And you went on you shared a house at one point, didn't you, with Richard Burton and his first wife, Sybil, is that right?

Robert Hardy25:44

Yeah.

Presenter25:44

Uh

Robert Hardy25:44

Yeah, well, I used to be there a lot. Oh, you were? Okay. We didn't actually share a house. Oh, I see.

Presenter25:48

So

Robert Hardy25:49

And how did you get on? What was I mean, you know Oh, wonderfully. I adored Sybil. Right. So that when the Elizabeth Taylor thing came along, I found it uh pretty difficult to

Presenter25:53

Right.

Presenter26:01

Except when did you first meet Elizabeth Taylor? Can you remember?

Robert Hardy26:04

Yes, I remember vividly. I was at home in my house in London then.

Robert Hardy26:11

Familiar voice came on the telephone.

Robert Hardy26:14

Erdrit

Robert Hardy26:16

I've got a fend uh

Robert Hardy26:18

Kier wants to speak to you.

Robert Hardy26:20

And it o

Robert Hardy26:21

Hallo, Tim. My friends and family know me as Tim, which is one of my names.

Speaker 226:27

Uh

Robert Hardy26:27

She said, I want to come and have supper with you, Rich and me.

Robert Hardy26:32

It's Elizabeth Taylor, and Rounde came, and of course I realize I must have been extremely frosty, because as she got into the car at the end of the evening to go away she clasped my hands in hers and said Don't hate me, Tim.

Robert Hardy26:51

Yeah.

Presenter26:51

Did she fix you with those violet eyes?

Robert Hardy26:52

Absolutely.

Presenter26:54

And as you saw your very good friend get whipped up into this I mean, let's not forget they make Brad and Angelina look like a Vicarage tea party. I mean they were the only show in town.

Robert Hardy27:04

They were, they were, they were.

Presenter27:06

As you saw that happen to your good friend, the jewels, the yachts, the the paparazzi, the whole thing wh

Presenter27:12

Did you fear for him?

Robert Hardy27:13

Uh

Presenter27:13

Uh

Robert Hardy27:13

Yeah.

Presenter27:13

Yeah.

Presenter27:14

Uh

Robert Hardy27:14

I did. And the more it went on, the more I realized that it was going to be his undoing. And in the end I think it's true that it was his undoing, that sort of life.

Robert Hardy27:29

Yeah.

Presenter27:29

Killed him in a way. Let's have some music then, Robert Hardy. You're sixth of the morning. What are we going to hear now?

Robert Hardy27:36

I love Sibelius and this particular piece. There's a touch of the Sebelius and the stretching forests and lakes of his Finland, and then suddenly he turns in this piece sort of back to the eighteenth century. It's wonderful.

Presenter28:51

That was the fourth movement of Sibelius's sixth symphony in D minor, performed by the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Sir Simon Rattle. Wh when was the last time you performed on stage?

Robert Hardy29:02

I played for the seventh time, Winston Churchill.

Robert Hardy29:07

in Paris, in French, in two thousand, and it was the most wonderful production called Selviquia di Non, and it was played by De Gaulle, Churchill, and the French Resistance.

Presenter29:20

You said a while ago that you had initially turned down playing Winston Churchill in the wilderness years. Was there something of almost revering somebody too much that it was an intimidating role to take on?

Robert Hardy29:30

Oh yes, absolutely, that was it. I just wasn't up to it.

Presenter29:35

Do you feel you understood him?

Robert Hardy29:37

Yes.

Robert Hardy29:38

More and more and more.

Robert Hardy29:40

I got to know him. He became a friend. And of course that was the thing.

Robert Hardy29:44

Really, th not only did I revere him enormously, but he was our friend in the war,'cause he took

Robert Hardy29:50

all of us by the hand and led us through those

Robert Hardy29:54

Dark and dreadful days

Presenter29:56

And has he kept you company away? Do you someti you know?

Robert Hardy29:58

Yeah, sometimes.

Robert Hardy30:01

Yeah, and so his family have forgiven me, most of them, anyway. And when I was doing um him, so to say, in Paris, Lady Soames had said to me, Oh, you must go. It's just been unveiled. It's the best statue of Papa. You simply must go and see it. This was his young

Presenter30:19

This was his youngest daughter, of course.

Robert Hardy30:21

His youngest daughter.

Robert Hardy30:23

So I did, and as it approached, daubed right across this great big plinth, in dripping scarlet paint, was L'Assin de Mercel Quebec in other words, the murderer of Maresl Quabir, where we, the Royal Navy, destroyed the French fleet.

Robert Hardy30:42

And I went back to rehearsal and said to Robert Seine, who was the director,

Robert Hardy30:47

I said, God, I'm a bit alarmed about this. And he said, Oh, well, you you you you will have trouble. First thing you'll hear when we're out in front of the audience is uh seats tipping up as you come on, and then you'll hear booing, and uh they may throw things, they might even shoot and I said, Robert, I don't want to die and he said, Oh, but for nectar, what do you wish?

Presenter31:08

And you go. Uh

Robert Hardy31:08

Yeah.

Presenter31:11

Very glad you're here now. Let's have some more music, Robert Hardy. We're on our seventh disc of the day.

Robert Hardy31:17

Beethoven again, two Beethovens. But are you surprised? It's a string quartet in B flat, and an extraordinary, unusual, rather like the Sebelius, in the midst of a very heavy, deeply passionate, philosophical

Robert Hardy31:36

Peace.

Robert Hardy31:37

comes this extraordinary little dance movement.

Speaker 231:46

Yeah.

Presenter32:38

The Medici String Quartet playing the second movement of Beethoven's String Quartet in B flat. Talking a moment ago, Robert Hardy, about Mary Soames, now Baroness Soames, of course, the youngest daughter of Winston Churchill. When she first learned that you were to play her father, w was she all embracing in her enthusiasm?

Robert Hardy32:54

I've no idea, because we met first when she came we were filming at Chartwell, and there were cables and wet and crew with muddy boots tramping in and out of the house her house, you know, into which she was born and grew up. And she was obviously distressed. And I said, um, this is all horrid, it'll all be put right. Don't be depressed by it. Would you like a whisky? Come into my trailer. And she said, Oh, yes, I would. And we went and had a whisky. And then she started evaluating me. She said, the bow ties, that's that's about right. That's a good suit, yes. And then she said, Where'd you get that? and seized my finger, third finger of my right hand. And I'd had his ring copied.

Robert Hardy33:44

by um Garrard, who had records of what his ring was with the two crests, Spencer and Churchill, and she was absolutely amazed that an actor should go to that trouble.

Presenter33:57

You've been married twice then, and and you've you've spent the last uh twenty odd years single on paper at least, not not married.

Robert Hardy33:58

And

Presenter34:05

Correct. Do you ever get lonely?

Robert Hardy34:07

No. No, I don't. I never have succumbed much to loneliness.

Robert Hardy34:15

Now I've got abreast of uh the problem of being with myself. I quite approve of what has emerged. The thing that I am has so many interests. There's never a dull moment.

Presenter34:28

You've got four grandchildren of your own. Do you see much of them?

Robert Hardy34:29

Yeah.

Robert Hardy34:31

Yes, I see as much of my family as I possibly can.

Presenter34:34

I'm I'm imagining you do occasionally bump into Dame Judy Dench.

Robert Hardy34:38

Oh yes, I did the other day, Buckingham Post.

Robert Hardy34:41

Yeah. Do you ever talk about the old days? I did. I told her something which I can't really say on this talk, I think.

Presenter34:49

Go on.

Robert Hardy34:51

I said the love scene Henry the Fifth, which we did think I remember, she said. Uh that was the only time in the love scene when I had trouble with my um hose.

Presenter35:02

Uh

Presenter35:05

Very elegantly put. Shall we have our final piece then? We're on disc eight. What are we going to hear, Robert Hardy?

Robert Hardy35:11

This is the sort of final bit of a work called De Profundis, which is composed by a nephew of mine, John Hardy, who's a very fine composer. And I think it's very appropriate for somebody who's obviously going to perish on the Desert Island, because nobody would think it worthwhile to come and rescue an old man of my years. And I'm very happy and proud to

Robert Hardy35:36

How after some difficulty have achieved this um recording from Westminster Abbey.

Presenter36:39

De Profundis by John Hardy, performed at Westminster Abbey with the Abbey Choir, the B B C Singers, and London Brass, conducted by Martin Baker. So, Robert, I'm going to give you the books, of course. You get the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, uh and you're going to take along which book to join them.

Robert Hardy36:55

Well, it sounds totally egotistical, but I'm going to take along a book which I of which I'm the co-author.

Robert Hardy37:02

Because it's an enormous book, a sort of book of reference, if you like, for the whole history of famous longbow in military history in England and France. And I did it with a marvellous m um man, the professor of medieval history at Glasgow University, Professor Strickland.

Robert Hardy37:25

And there's so much in all of it which really I need to

Robert Hardy37:28

Uh go back on because it's been half my life. Right, you may have that, of course.

Presenter37:33

Uh The low

Robert Hardy37:33

Luxury too.

Robert Hardy37:34

I want a sub-Leonardo da Vinci portrait by a man called Da Predi, who is a friend and

Robert Hardy37:41

pupil of Leonardo's and the great experts, you know what they're like, say no, no, no, it's certainly not Leonardo, it's a De Predi. You can see by its stiffness it's not Leonardo. Anyway, I want the one, partly because I think it's absolutely beautiful.

Robert Hardy37:57

and partly because I grew up with a copy of it at home.

Robert Hardy38:01

And it is um Young Lady in Profile by

Presenter38:05

Da prede. That perfect female head is yours, then. And if you had to choose just one of the eight discs that we've had here today, which one would you like to choose? Oh.

Robert Hardy38:15

I suppose it would be

Presenter38:17

Yeah.

Robert Hardy38:18

The Beethoven Quartet, but I'd want the whole of it, that's the answer.

Presenter38:22

Robert Hardy, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. It's been the greatest pleasure. Thanks very much.

Presenter39:13

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc.co.uk slash Radio Four.