Michael Johnson

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the athlete and now commentator Michael Johnson.

Presenter0:39

He's the only person ever to hold world records in the two hundred and four hundred metres at the same time. By the time he hung up his legendary gold Nike trainers, his haul of medals included five Olympic golds.

Presenter0:52

The youngest of five children, he started running because he says he always wanted to catch up.

Presenter0:57

He was ten when he won his first race a fifty yard dash he says the feeling of that win has never left him. I'd like to be remembered as nothing more than what I am, he says, the most consistent and versatile sprinter who ever sprinted. You once said that, as strong as my legs are, it is my mind that has made me a champion.

Michael Johnson1:19

Uh

Presenter1:20

Tell me about that.

Michael Johnson1:21

Well, I think the thing is with great athletes, you know, there is certainly a mental component to achieving success as an athlete. And I think that people say, is it what percentage of athletic success is physical and what percentage is mental? And I think you have to strive to be one hundred percent proficient in both areas. As much as it looks like it's, you know, it's easy for athletes who are physically gifted at the professional level, we all are.

Presenter1:49

Yes. It's it's a difficult thing for us mere mortals to understand when we watch people like you in a race. Of course we see the physical perfection that almost makes you all seem like a different species. But we also wonder

Presenter2:03

Why the hell you put yourself through it?

Michael Johnson2:06

Well, I think people somewhat over exaggerate, you know, the the life of an athlete and and the the journey. You know, you you wake up every day and you're f singularly focused on

Michael Johnson2:19

being the best that you can be. And you wouldn't want to do that if you weren't winning gold medals and getting paid a lot of money to do it. But when you are, it's a it's a nice bonus, you know, to it's a great life.

Presenter2:31

What about the historic double then? It was at the uh Atlanta Olympics. It was nineteen ninety six. Were your parents there to watch that?

Michael Johnson2:37

Yeah, my parents were there. My brother and my three sisters were all there. You know, most athletes don't ever get an opportunity to participate in an Olympic Games in their own country, and that was an incredible opportunity for me to be able to have all of my family there, friends and a largely American crowd while I was at the peak, obviously, of my career. I was six years into my professional career, so I had the experience. But I was young enough that I hadn't gotten to a point where injuries and things started to set in, which was the case by the time I got to Sydney in two thousand when I was held together by bandaids and string.

Presenter3:16

Yeah.

Presenter3:17

We're going to hear some music now, Michael Johnson. Tell me about the first track we're going to hear today. What have you chosen?

Michael Johnson3:21

The first track is Eminem, Lose Yourself. It's kind of a victory song. It's it's all about, you know, taking the opportunity and capitalizing on the opportunity and

Michael Johnson3:32

Ordinarily, I'm not a real big Eminem fan, but as a lyricist, I mean, his ability to take words and and rhyme and put them together is amazing, but I like the message.

Speaker 23:41

Back to reality, oh, there goes gravity, oh, there goes rabbity, choke, he's so mad but he won't give up daddies, he know, he won't have it, he knows his whole backs of these ropes, it don't matter, he's cold, he knows that but he's pro, he's so staggered, he knows when he goes back to this mobile home, that's when it's back to the lab again, yo, this old rhapsody better go capture this moment and hope it don't give it away. Lose his mouth in the music the moment you own it, you better never let it

Presenter4:09

That was M and M and Lose Yourself. Um you retired Michael Johnson around about a decade ago. You were in your early thirties, about thirty four when you retired. Was that a difficult thing to do, to step away from something that had taken up so much of your life for the last uh almost a couple of decades, really?

Michael Johnson4:24

I was actually quite the opposite. I was ready. After 1996, I made the decision then that I would retire after 2000. I was Olympic Gold Medalist. I was still ranked number one in the world.

Presenter4:36

Yes, that I I won I won't tell specifically about that because I would think that that's even harder if you I mean when you're losing form.

Michael Johnson4:39

Think that

Presenter4:42

When you're watching people streak past you, you think

Presenter4:46

It's time to leave the stage. But there you were at the very pinnacle of your profession. It's very rare for an athlete of your standard to leave when they're at the absolute peak. You know, I honestly think it's the

Michael Johnson4:55

Opposite. I think that most of the time, you know, you would think that when you can't do it anymore, the athletes are ready to go. But most of those are the athletes that, you know, I can still do it, I can get it back. And so there is a complete disconnect from reality for a lot of athletes at that point. For me, it was um I always wanted to get out of the sport before that happened and um I was getting older. But also I think the the biggest thing was I had I had done everything that I wanted to do in the sport.

Presenter5:22

Uh let's talk for a moment about getting older. There are plenty of professional athletes who, after they give up the sport professionally, look like somebody pulled the rip cord. Um you're in extraordinary shape. Are you still do you run every day? Do you how how do you stay in this condition?

Michael Johnson5:30

Yeah.

Michael Johnson5:35

You don't stay in this condition. I do what any other normal person who just kind of wants to stay in shape would do. I already don't believe you.

Presenter5:42

Yeah.

Michael Johnson5:45

You know, what what I do now is so far removed from what I used to do. You can call them both running, but they are night and day. I've got on some baggy shorts and T shirt and a cap and

Presenter5:56

Not the gold shoes then.

Michael Johnson5:57

No, not

Presenter5:57

No, not that. Um you were still competing when your son was born. W was it difficult to combine the the role of being a new father with being a an elite athlete?

Michael Johnson6:07

No, my son was born in May of two thousand and I retired three months later. So it was all very good timing and all very well planned. It was well planned? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter6:14

Right.

Presenter6:15

It was well planned. Are you a a highly strategic individual?

Michael Johnson6:21

Yeah, to a fault.

Michael Johnson6:22

I'd rather be than not to be that way, but it certainly has its uh its disadvantages, so.

Presenter6:29

So the upside is the five gold medals and all the other championship titles, the downside is what?

Michael Johnson6:35

I think you probably miss out in all honesty. As I've gotten older, I think you you probably miss out on some of the more passionate moments in life and some of the more spontaneous moments of life because you want to not end up in any situation where you're not

Michael Johnson6:51

in control. So that whole planning thing comes out of being a control freak.

Presenter6:55

How do you relax?

Michael Johnson6:57

I'm almost always relaxed. You know, I've I I've got a good life. So, I mean, I I hang out with my son, go kayaking, we play tennis, we play video games and we do all kind of bike riding. I love wine and uh hang out with my wife or with some friends and have a good bottle of wine.

Michael Johnson7:18

stuff like that.

Presenter7:19

Okay, that's I'm I'm happy to hear that. Because I'm worried you're living this very controlled existence and I don't know. Is it true you get your hair cut every week?

Michael Johnson7:25

Okay.

Michael Johnson7:32

Hmm, mm-hmm.

Presenter7:33

That's quite unusual.

Michael Johnson7:35

Well

Michael Johnson7:36

I don't have much, so it doesn't take that long. I wear it short, so it only takes from about ten minutes.

Presenter7:41

Don't get me wrong. Let's have some more music, Michael Johnson. What are we going to hear now?

Michael Johnson7:46

McFatten and Whitehead, Ain't No Stoppin Us Now. Love this song. I listened to it a lot growing up. My brother and my three sisters, there are five of us, and when we were growing up, we would always listen to music and dance, and this was one of our favorite songs. It reminds me a lot of my childhood growing up.

Speaker 38:21

There's been so many things that's held us down

Speaker 38:26

But now it looks like things are finally coming around.

Speaker 38:30

I know we've got a long, long way to go.

Speaker 38:34

And where will it end up?

Speaker 38:36

I don't know.

Presenter8:38

That was McFadden and Whitehead and Ain't No Stoppin' Us. Now you were singing into that, Michael Johnson, that you remember mem memories of dancing with your uh brother and your sisters to that song. You were you were the littlest, brother.

Michael Johnson8:48

Yeah, I was the youngest, so um I have uh three sisters and one brother. They're all about a year apart.

Presenter8:54

Right.

Michael Johnson8:54

And then there's a five-year gap.

Presenter8:56

Okay. Were you doted upon by your sisters? Do you get a lot of attention?

Michael Johnson8:56

Okay, will you do s

Michael Johnson8:59

No, not at all. We were always dancing to this song, so they were really good dancers, so they would make fun of me because I couldn't dance like they could. I was really, really easily embarrassed as a kid. I mean, like, the slightest thing would embarrass me. Even now, still the same way. And so they knew that, and so they would just deliberately do things, you know, to

Presenter9:02

Yeah.

Michael Johnson9:21

make me embarrassed and yeah, but we had a lot of fun.

Presenter9:25

And your mum and dad? Were they were your mum was it? Yeah.

Michael Johnson9:28

Yeah. Well, my my mother was a school teacher before my older sister was born.

Presenter9:32

Right.

Michael Johnson9:33

And then when my oldest sister was born my mom stopped working.

Presenter9:36

Okay, you were born nineteen sixty seven in Dallas. And what are your very early memories of of life at home?

Michael Johnson9:41

Both my parents are only children. My father wasn't really close to his parents who had divorced. And his father moved to Alaska and his mother moved to Hawaii, so they just wanted to get as far away from each other as possible, I guess. And so we were very, very close. Just my parents, my brother, my sisters, and my grandparents on my mother's side.

Presenter9:57

Okay.

Michael Johnson10:07

We didn't have much. We had everything that we needed. We had food, we had a house to live in, we had clothes.

Presenter10:14

And we

Michael Johnson10:16

But beyond the necessary items there wasn't a lot of uh you know extra

Presenter10:22

And your dad drove a truck?

Michael Johnson10:22

My dad was a truck driver.

Presenter10:24

Yeah.

Michael Johnson10:25

And uh and my dad was always wanting us to to do better, be better and have a better home. And so uh we first lived when I was first born in a very, very small three bedroom house with one bathroom for seven people. And in a not so good neighborhood, my brother and my sisters and I were always better than everybody else at sports, and so we got into lots of fights.

Speaker 310:36

Uh

Michael Johnson10:50

Um, because we were better. The five of us would always play on the team and they would always say, Oh, my little brothers can beat you and in basketball or whatever and and I would and then somebody would get mad and we'd get into a fight. But it was good, it was good. We kept and then we moved to another house and very nice and then we moved to a really nice neighborhood for us'cause my dad just kept working harder and harder and and wanted better for us.

Presenter11:11

And did they want you to work harder and harder? Was there anything that's not the same?

Michael Johnson11:13

Absolutely. That was that was my father. I mean, there wasn't a lot of uh dreamy kind of, you know, oh, you're gonna go on to become this su super successful athlete or anything like that. It was just go to college and get a good job and make life okay for yourself.

Presenter11:27

Yeah.

Presenter11:30

Let's have some more music then, Michael Johnson. We're on our third disc for the day. Tell us what we're going to hear.

Michael Johnson11:34

Al Green, tired of being alone. This is my dad's. My dad was always a big Al Green fan. My dad is still my hero. I always wanted to be like my dad. The thing that I looked up to and the thing that I saw in him that I wanted to be was that he was always in control. So, you know, with only my dad working, with five kids, we didn't have a lot, but he was always in control of everything. Always felt safe. I always felt like no matter what happens, he's going to have it taken care of. He's a great man. So I grew up listening to this song.

Speaker 312:07

Yeah.

Speaker 312:11

Tired of being alone, I'm so tired of on my own. Won't you help me, girl, just as soon as you can?

Speaker 312:23

People say

Speaker 312:25

That I found a way to make you say

Speaker 312:30

That you love me

Speaker 312:36

You didn't go for that.

Speaker 312:38

It's a natural fact

Speaker 312:41

That I wanna come back.

Presenter12:44

That was Al Green and Tired of Being Alone, and that's music Michael Johnson that your dad introduced you to, Al Green. Big Al Green fan.

Michael Johnson12:50

Yeah, and um he had this record player and he had about three or four different extension cords all, you know, tied together coming from the inside of the house out and he had a ladder and the the

Michael Johnson13:03

The record player would be sitting on the ladder and he'd be washing the car and uh doing something outside and listening to that song.

Presenter13:09

I mean, of course I know that he must be incredibly proud of your success, and I'm sure there are times it's been difficult for him quite to comprehend the success that you've had. What does he say to you about it all?

Michael Johnson13:22

I think it has for my parents. I think, you know, they've my brother and two of my sisters live very near to where my parents live and they will say, I was over at mom and dad's house today and they were watching a video of you. And my sister will say, you know, I don't think they really still can believe that they've done the things that they've been able to do. They've traveled around the world. They've met famous people because of my success and I think they have to pinch themselves sometimes.

Presenter13:51

It can often happen in households where somebody has extraordinary success on a world scale that brings with it not just attention.

Presenter14:00

and fame, but brings with it money and all of the other things that go with it, that that can destabilize entire families. The ripples of that are not always positive ripples. Do you do you think it's been essential to your family's sort of health and survival that you were you were tight knit to begin with?

Michael Johnson14:13

But you

Michael Johnson14:14

Yeah, I think so. But I think that the other thing is there's a a respect between all of us. So my oldest sister is an ordained minister, and I'm far from being in agreement with some of her beliefs. But we are the best of friends. And in all honesty, she's the one that I'm closest to. So there's just a respect, and I think that that respect that we all have for one another has allowed us to not fall into some of those problems that families do have when there's money and fame involved.

Presenter14:51

Let's have some more music, Michael Johnson. What's next?

Michael Johnson14:54

Joe Cocker, Up Where We Belong. So I've always been a big Joe Cocker fan. I've collected just about everything that he's ever made, and this is one of my favorite.

Speaker 315:04

The lifters are where we belong.

Speaker 315:09

Where the eagles cry.

Speaker 315:13

On the mountain lifted high

Speaker 315:18

Cause I'm where we flow.

Speaker 315:23

Far from the world belong.

Speaker 315:27

I'll find the clear winds explore

Presenter15:31

That was Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warren's in Up Where We Belong. Michael Johnson, central to most elite athletes' performance is their relationship with their coach, and you are no different i in that respect from many other people. Clyde Hart was the person who you developed the relationship with. You met him when you went to university, is that right?

Michael Johnson15:49

Yeah, he um recruited me from high school to come to Bailey University where he was a head coach.

Michael Johnson15:55

And there were many coaches coming to my house to meet with myself and my parents, and they all wanted me to go to their university, and he was much different.

Presenter16:02

So it's like a kind of beauty contest. Is it they come in, they say, Lo look at me, I'm gonna promise you the world

Michael Johnson16:04

So the guy

Michael Johnson16:07

Exactly. Yeah. Fans of the beauty.

Presenter16:09

Yeah.

Michael Johnson16:12

And what's it

Presenter16:13

And what sort of things did you. So, your parents are scoping them out and trying to work out with you. What kind of things did you ask them? What were you interested in?

Michael Johnson16:19

Um, well, you know, honestly, I'm not sure if I knew what I was looking for then, but I think that when he came into my house, I just got a feeling that he genuinely cared about the athletes as people, and he wanted to help us to become successful individuals, whether it was in athletics or or otherwise.

Presenter16:39

Can we talk for a moment and you're talking to somebody who's far from an expert now, so please do bear this in mind about your running style. Because you've got that you had that really very upright running style. Was that you never uh competitively went in for the one hundred metres. Was that because you didn't have the sort of sprinter's tilt where they get a bit of uh a bit of a run on the competition by being ahead.

Michael Johnson16:57

No, it it's

Michael Johnson17:00

Right. Um, so my style was everybody runs differently. Mine was dramatically different. And when I was really young, all of the kids made fun of the way that I ran.

Presenter17:09

Some people made fun of it when you weren't a little kid. Some what was they called you, the duck? Some people called you the duck. Yeah.

Michael Johnson17:09

Some people may

Michael Johnson17:14

Yeah, yeah. But they caught me a really fast duck. They were trying to

Michael Johnson17:18

Hey, what's Yeah.

Michael Johnson17:21

It was written. Did it bother you? No, no, it didn't. It didn't. Well, it bothered me when I was young and other kids made fun of the way that I ran. But when I was ranked number one in the world, what bothered me was that I was ranked number one in the world, and I would hear television commentators say, if he changed his running technique, then he'd break the world record. And they simply said that because there are eight people in the race, seven of them run one way, and one runs the other way. But I'm so far ahead of the other people. Why am I the one that's wrong? I wanted it so bad. I wanted to be the best I could be so bad that

Michael Johnson18:00

I was there every day.

Presenter18:02

For ten years you never missed a day of training.

Michael Johnson18:04

No.

Michael Johnson18:05

No, never missed a day of training.

Michael Johnson18:07

I wanted to be the best. I wanted to be the best I could be. In order to be the best you can be, you have to take advantage of every opportunity. And every day of training is a is an opportunity. And every missed day is a missed opportunity.

Presenter18:19

Do you look at the rest of us and think we're a bunch of sort of slackers with no backbone?

Michael Johnson18:24

But you personally

Presenter18:25

You can be honest, it's just the t it's just the two words.

Michael Johnson18:29

So here's the situation. I love to sprint. I love to go out there and compete. And this is my job.

Michael Johnson18:37

It's easy in that sense.

Michael Johnson18:39

Now I look back and I go, Yeah, that was that was sacrifice because I wouldn't do that now. I wouldn't do some of the things that I did then. In America, the last Thursday in November is the biggest holiday in the country. It's Thanksgiving.

Michael Johnson18:55

That's Thanksgiving. I'm going to be with my family. Today I'm going to be with my family. Nothing else is coming between that. Then it was Thursday, and Thursday's a training day.

Michael Johnson19:03

Well, it's Thanksgiving. Yeah, well it's Thursday. So now I realize that, you know, yeah, that was tremendous sacrifice, but when you're in it and you're so fortunate and you feel so fortunate to be in this situation and you want it so bad, you don't feel like it's sacrifice.

Presenter19:19

Let's have some more music, Michael, what's next?

Michael Johnson19:21

Aretha Franklin. I grew up listening to Aretha Franklin. My parents, my mother, my father both loved Aretha Franklin as an artist. Her voice is incredible. Ain't nothing like the real thing. That's one of my favorites, and that's what we'll hear now.

Speaker 319:42

Like the real blank

Speaker 319:46

There ain't nothing like the

Speaker 319:58

Like the real thing, babe.

Speaker 320:03

There ain't nothing like the real thing

Presenter20:06

That was Aretha Franklin and ain't nothing like the real thing. Uh Michael Johnson, you you still hold the world records. I think I'm right here in the four hundred meters and the three hundred meters, but your two hundred metre uh record was taken by Usain Bolt in the Beijing uh Olympics. You're watching him.

Presenter20:22

How did that feel how does it feel to see your title wrestled from you by somebody else?

Michael Johnson20:22

The hand.

Michael Johnson20:27

Um for me it wasn't as I think most people imagined it would be. I didn't feel any different the next day. I watched it and I was totally amazed watching it. And I was glad to be in the stadium to see it live because I'm such a fan of athletics and always have been. The fact that it was my record that was broken, first of all, there was nothing that I could do.

Michael Johnson20:50

to keep him from breaking it.

Michael Johnson20:52

But the other thing is, is that there was nothing that I was doing on a daily basis to keep it.

Michael Johnson20:59

The the accomplishment and the sense of accomplishment was when I broke it. I had been chasing it for years. And myself, my coach, my entire team, we had worked and and I'll never forget the day.

Michael Johnson21:10

Yeah.

Presenter21:10

Can you I I think it must be very difficult to put it into words, but can you at least give us a glimpse of how that feels as you say it? This is not just the work of you, it's not just your blood, sweat and tears, it's the team, it's the it's the the endless effort that's gone in.

Michael Johnson21:10

Can you

Michael Johnson21:23

We all knew that I could break the world record long before I broke it.

Michael Johnson21:28

The day that it got broken was going to come based on me executing better in the race. So it was down to me. I mean, they were already doing their job. The team had already done their job. My coach had prepared me. I was ready to break the world record years before. It was just a matter of me finding the right pace and making the right moves. And once I did that, it was a tremendous sense of accomplishment.

Presenter21:49

Are you hyper aware of yourself physically? You know, whether it's the speed of the wind that day, whether it's you know how any particular part of your body is going to you do you inhabit a different place?

Michael Johnson21:59

Yeah, you're you're hyper-aware of all of the things that matter when that race is going on.

Michael Johnson22:05

It looks like the gun goes off, everybody runs as fast as they can in the first one to the finish line wins, and that's actually what happens.

Presenter22:12

What happened?

Michael Johnson22:13

To the fan. Yes. As an athlete, you are, let's take 400 meters, for example. You have four, maybe five, depending on how you set up your race strategy, different phases of that race. In each phase, you need to come through in a certain time, and you need to feel a certain way. And after you go pass through that phase, you are thinking then, did I execute that correctly? And am I on the pace that I need to be? And if the answer is yes, that means one set of circumstances. If the answer is no, that means, okay, do I adjust or do I stay with what I'm doing? And at the same time, all of those things are happening. You're also, as much as you're running your own race, you're also competing against the other people. So you're having to keep an eye on them. If someone's getting a little too far away from you than you expected them to be, you have to decide.

Michael Johnson22:58

Do I change my race strategy to race against and compete against that person, or do I keep doing what I'm doing and trust that he's not going to be doing that for long? You know, you have to make those decisions. So there's a lot going on.

Presenter23:09

You really didn't like Carl Lewis.

Presenter23:13

I mean you really didn't like it.

Michael Johnson23:14

No, I didn't like Carl at all.

Presenter23:15

No. What was the problem there?

Michael Johnson23:16

Carl was a problem. I just never liked Carl's kind of arrogance on the track. So I just never was a fan from that perspective. When I came into the sport, he was the biggest star in the sport. He was a superstar. And I was poised to take over. And I was making my move, and he didn't want to relinquish it. And that's fine. That's not a problem. We could settle it on the track in a race.

Michael Johnson23:46

But he never would erase me. And so I was kind of disappointed that he never gave me that opportunity to beat him. He as the media started to see me as the superstar overtaking him and he wasn't ready to give that up, he started to say things about me that were, you know, that I was boring, I didn't have enough personality, and I would never be a big superstar in the sport. That wasn't really nice. So I thought, you know, I'll get my chance one day. Eventually he has to race me because we have Olympic trials and we have to run. And when he does, when we line up, I'll take my revenge then. And we did, and I did.

Presenter24:26

Let's have some music then, Michael. What's next?

Michael Johnson24:29

Tupac Shakur. I listened to Tupac in this particular song, Me Against the World, before every race. That was kind of the mindset that I wanted to be in. And so I always had my headphones on in my focus and I always listened to that song because that was the mindset I wanted to be in.

Speaker 324:45

It's to say against the world.

Speaker 324:53

Ah

Speaker 324:54

I got nothing to lose. This is me against the world.

Speaker 325:02

Oh baby.

Presenter25:13

That was Tupac Shakur and Me Against the World, and you would play that Michael Johnston your headphones before every race just to get you into that zone. I said in the introduction that you won indeed you did win five gold medals. One of those medals was handed back. It was the gold medal that you won at the Sydney Olympics in 2000 for the men's four by four hundred relay. One of your teammates admitted that he had taken performance enhancing drugs. How much of that was news to you when you found out?

Michael Johnson25:40

It was news because he was one of the guys that I just never would have suspected. You know, and I was very disappointed when I found that out and what it did to me. I'd always been a five-time Olympic gold medalist. Every time I'm introduced now as a four-time Olympic gold medalist, it pisses me off. Because he didn't need to be using performance-enhancing drugs to run fast. Number one. Two, we didn't need him on the relay. And so.

Michael Johnson26:06

It it's really it was really disappointing, so I gave it back.

Presenter26:09

And it's never something that, you know, where you offered the opportunity that people ever say to you, you know what, you want to be the fastest man on earth. I know how you can do it.

Michael Johnson26:17

No, uh because it just doesn't happen that way. You know, people don't as much as you hear that people come to athletes and offer them drugs

Michael Johnson26:27

It actually happens the other way.

Presenter26:28

So people have to seek it out.

Michael Johnson26:30

You take a big risk if you come to me saying, Hey, here's something to take. I might blow the whistle.

Michael Johnson26:35

Right? So, you don't have all of these people walking around, you know, coming up to professional athletes saying, you know, take performance enhanced drugs, or I can offer you this. That never happens. But that situation was unfortunate because ultimately, I always thought that Antonio Pettigrew was a really good person who would never do that. And ultimately, I think it turns out that that is who he was. And he felt so bad about that one mistake that he ended up taking his own life and left a young son and a wife. And that's terrible. I mean, that decision to do that has affected so many other people.

Presenter27:16

In Britain, of course, we're looking ahead to the twenty twelve London Olympics. As the game draws near, the the city is gearing up and you'll be working as part of the BBC Commentary team. Is there a even a tiny part of you that thinks back to the the golden days and thinks I wish it was me putting on the spikes down there?

Michael Johnson27:27

Yeah.

Michael Johnson27:35

No, I you know, I have my time. I think it'll be a great games. I'm really looking forward to it. What in particular?

Presenter27:41

What in particular are you looking forward to seeing?

Michael Johnson27:43

I think, you know, honestly in Beijing there wasn't that festive atmosphere that you normally have at every Games where it's not just about the competition on the track. It's a city is welcoming the entire world and hosting the entire world. And that's you know, I think London's really excited about that and prepared for that. And I think it will be a great festive atmosphere during the Games.

Presenter28:10

Let's have some more music, Michael Johnson. We're on our second last disc, number seven. What we gonna hear?

Michael Johnson28:15

We're going to hear Ray Charles. Ray Charles is probably I would say Ray Charles is my all time favorite artist. And what he sings about is really special. So I became a Ray Charles fan actually when I was in college. And from there I've collected just about everything that he's ever made. And this is Let's Go Get Stone.

Speaker 328:37

Oh yeah.

Speaker 328:49

Everybody

Speaker 328:52

Go get

Presenter29:03

That was Ray Charles and Let's Go Get Stoned. So you live, Michael Johnson, now in San Francisco with uh your second wife and your son. Are you an easy person to live with?

Michael Johnson29:13

Probably not. I would say probably not. Um

Michael Johnson29:21

It depends on the person. And so for my wife, it's easy for her because she has high expectations of herself. And so I expect people to be as good as they can be. It's what I expect out of myself. And I wouldn't expect anything out of people that they're not capable of. Below that, I'm a hard person to be around when someone's underperforming or underachieving. But no, I think for my wife, because of the kind of person she is, I think it's it's not too bad.

Speaker 329:38

To mine.

Presenter29:49

Your son is eleven now. What what do you encourage him to do? What do you encourage him to have as his focus?

Michael Johnson29:56

I he's eleven and so I encourage him to try lots of different things so that he can find the one thing that he's really, really passionate about.

Michael Johnson30:06

The one thing that has stuck is drums. He's he's been taking drum lessons since he was five and he really likes it.

Presenter30:12

And you're gonna be all alone on the desert island. I'm sending you to the the desert the desert island. How are you gonna be with I mean I mean I'm imagining you know you're very self-reliant.

Michael Johnson30:16

It has a

Presenter30:21

You would probably have a plan. You would probably be okay, would you?

Michael Johnson30:25

I probably wouldn't because, see, that's where that over planning, I can't I can't really plan for it, you know, what's going to happen when you're on a desert island, you just kind of you don't know what's going to happen. And so that's where I'd probably be a a wreck, whereas some other people who kind of just go with it would probably be in a much better position than I would. So I'm always striving to try to put myself from ti lately I've been trying to put myself in situations, you know, where you know, I'm having to grow a little bit in that area. And I think I've benefited from it. So I may be okay on the island. I I'm fortunate, but at the same time, you know, y I mean my whole life is set up uh the way that I want it to be and and what works for me and yeah, I think you can get a little bit stale and get a little bit uh you can lose a little edge that way. So I try to put myself in situations that I'll grow and and kind of keep myself sharp.

Presenter31:16

What about I mean, y you've talked a little bit about winning. Maybe I could have asked you more about that. But but in the end

Presenter31:24

Is what is important to you having a legacy is that people will remember Michael Johnson.

Michael Johnson31:29

Um

Michael Johnson31:32

Yeah, it's important. It it's important simply be it wasn't important when I was competing.

Michael Johnson31:38

What was important when I was competing was to be the best that I could be and to win.

Michael Johnson31:42

I'm very proud of what I accomplished. You know, I set out during my career to do something really special and I accomplished that. And so is it important for me that people recognize that? Yeah, it's important. But at the end of the day, what's most important is that my son feels like, hey, I had a good dad and hopefully he feels about me the same way I feel about my father and that I've made the same type of influence and impact. That's what's really important. If another three or four or five you same bolts come along and then it just continues to push me down, you know, and they do it in the 200 and 400, and you know, that's okay. But I don't think that's going to happen. I think that I'll always be mentioned as one of the greatest spenders of all time and having done something unique in the sport. And that I I like that. It feels good.

Presenter31:53

Yeah.

Presenter32:37

Let's have our final piece of music, Michael Johnson. What are we gonna hear?

Michael Johnson32:40

So, this is Endless Flight, and this is from the soundtrack for the movie Babel, which was a really good movie about how decisions that people make affect themselves and other people, not just people around them, people that they don't even know on the other side of the world. It's really cool. But this song is all about the music, and it's just beautiful. I spend a lot of time on airplanes and traveling around the world, and I listen to something like this.

Presenter33:35

Endless flight from the soundtrack to the film Babel. So, Michael Johnson, it's time to I give you some books, and I'm going to give you the books now. You get the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take a book of your own to the island to read. What would you like to take?

Michael Johnson33:49

Hm, I'd take an encyclopedia.

Presenter33:52

Okay. Yeah. The biggest one we can find.

Michael Johnson33:53

The biggest one we can find.

Presenter33:53

Uh

Presenter33:54

Okay, I'll give you that. And uh a luxury too, just to make life it can't be too useful, but it's it's got to make life a little more bearable on this lonely island.

Michael Johnson34:04

Oh a luxury item.

Michael Johnson34:09

I'd take my McLaren SLR. Couldn't drive it on the desert, I guess, but I'd just look at it.

Presenter34:13

That's fine. I'll even I'll even put some fuel in it for you. I'll even put some gas in the tank.

Michael Johnson34:13

Uh

Michael Johnson34:16

Uh

Speaker 234:16

Carli Humphreys

Presenter34:19

And if you had to choose just one of the eight disks, which one disc would you choose to save?

Michael Johnson34:26

I would take.

Michael Johnson34:28

Me fattening whitehead. Ain't no stopping us now. Reminds me of my family.

Presenter34:32

It's yours. Michael Johnson, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Michael Johnson34:35

All right, thank you.

Presenter35:12

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website, bbc.co.uk slash Radio Four.