Vidal Sassoon

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is Vidal Sassoon. He calls himself an old hairdresser, which is a bit like saying Picasso knocked out the odd painting. An iconic figure, he is the father of modern crimping, making his mark in the sixties, when he became the king of the five point cut. His scissors and ambition lifted him out of the grinding poverty of his childhood he spent six years in an orphanage, and elevated him to the very pinnacle of glamour and international recognition.

Presenter1:02

He says I've met Prime Ministers and Hollywood directors, screen legends and football superstars. I have cut the hair and listened to the secrets of some of the most beautiful women in the world. Why is that, Vidal Sassoon? Why do we tell our hair dressers our secrets?

Vidal Sassoon1:18

Because after the shampoo, if it's a good massage.

Vidal Sassoon1:22

You're totally relaxed.

Vidal Sassoon1:24

And some people

Vidal Sassoon1:26

Verbalize it.

Presenter1:28

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon1:28

Uh

Presenter1:28

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon1:28

That relaxation, others of course stay very quiet.

Presenter1:33

Um you gave Mary Quant, of course, the p I mean, really the perfect bob. But Mary Quant's bob was as famous as Mary Quant's mini skirts. Um did she when she when you did that to her, did she know that almost it would she's still wearing it today. It is her signature, really.

Vidal Sassoon1:45

Yes

Vidal Sassoon1:47

Yes.

Presenter1:48

Did you have to persuade her to get it in the beginning?

Vidal Sassoon1:52

Well, she came in in nineteen fifty seven with Alexander Plunkett Green. You know, that was her husband.

Presenter1:58

Yeah.

Speaker 41:58

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon1:58

Chum

Vidal Sassoon2:01

and it did something I'd never done in my life before.

Vidal Sassoon2:04

As I was dancing round the chair, I nipped her ear.

Presenter2:07

Oh, with your scissors, just

Vidal Sassoon2:08

Yes, and the blood came down.

Vidal Sassoon2:12

And Alexander looked at me and said, You charge extra for that Mary just giggled. Finished the haircut. This was nineteen fifty seven. And then she said, Let's work together. And we've worked together since that day. It was one of those lovely days.

Presenter2:31

And at that time when things really caught fire for you we we will talk about all the hard work that got you there, but did did you just feel like a man working hard, or did you feel excited by being on the crest of a wave?

Vidal Sassoon2:44

I had the most marvellous time. I really did, and uh I was comforted and excited by being able to work with people like David Hicks, people I never ever thought I'd meet in my life. And suddenly I'm working with them.

Presenter2:59

Did you live in an apartment that was designed by David Hicks at one point?

Vidal Sassoon3:02

Yes, David actually came in and did the interior, yes.

Presenter3:06

Tell me what it was like.

Vidal Sassoon3:07

Well, it was just two rooms.

Vidal Sassoon3:10

Just off Curzon Street is Curzon Place, gorgeous Georgian house.

Vidal Sassoon3:15

The first and second floors had very high ceilings. Then you got to the third floor, which is a bit dodgy. Then you got to my floor, which was the servants' quarters, okay, on the fourth floor. Davy came up and said, Yes, I'll do this for you.

Vidal Sassoon3:34

And he bought Francis Bacon round once.

Vidal Sassoon3:37

And uh Francis said, Mm

Vidal Sassoon3:40

For two rooms you've done a marvellous job, David. But why have you covered all the books in white paper?

Vidal Sassoon3:47

David said if you saw his taste in literature you would have done the same.

Vidal Sassoon3:53

Which wasn't true. I was reading Camille and Dostoevsky, and I was.

Vidal Sassoon3:58

Always trying to improve myself because I knew I had a long way to go.

Vidal Sassoon4:03

I started with nothing, in a sense, from the point of view of education.

Vidal Sassoon4:08

The thing that I had was vision.

Vidal Sassoon4:10

And that was vision in my own craft.

Presenter4:13

We will come right back to that in just a second. For now, it's time for some music, though. The first track Vidalsa sing that we're going to hear today.

Vidal Sassoon4:20

The first track was What a Difference A Day Made.

Presenter4:23

By Diana Washington.

Vidal Sassoon4:26

I met my wife Ronnie 22 years ago in Cincinnati where she's from and uh

Vidal Sassoon4:34

What a difference a day made!

Speaker 44:36

What a difference a day made.

Speaker 44:44

Twenty-four little hour

Speaker 44:52

What the sun and the flowers?

Speaker 45:00

Where there used to be rain

Presenter5:04

That was Dinah Washington and what a difference a day made. And you said we'd also soon going into that. You were talking about your life there in the in the sixties and saying that you were preparing yourself because you knew you had a long way to go. And I want to just take you back then to the very beginning. The beginning was 1928. You were born in Shepherd's Bush. And of your very early years, do you have much memory at all of the early days? Oh, very much. T tell me what you remember.

Vidal Sassoon5:26

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon5:30

Well, my mother was going to be evicted because she didn't have the rent money and father had uh taken off. A bit of a playboy. He just left my brother and myself and my mother. And an uncle took us over to Aunt Katie in the East End. She lived in a tenement building.

Presenter5:50

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon5:53

on Pedtico Lane, actually Wentworth Street. It's been pulled down now. Should have been pulled down about fifty years ago. But it's now down.

Presenter5:55

Right.

Presenter6:01

And your father you say your father took off. You you also once said that your father spoke seven languages and that he had sex in all of them. Yes. Yes, he was. Right, okay. Um how did you so your mother coped with this by by turfing him out then?

Vidal Sassoon6:08

Yes, he was.

Vidal Sassoon6:16

Um well, he just left.

Presenter6:18

He left.

Vidal Sassoon6:19

Mother had a great style. She was

Vidal Sassoon6:22

She and Katy, my auntie Katy, stayed in one room and the five children, because Katy had three, her husband had died, and we were on mattresses in the other room. And when my mother went to the Jewish authorities and said

Vidal Sassoon6:39

The girls are getting big. There's Katie's girls. I'd like to put uh Vidal in uh

Vidal Sassoon6:45

The orphanage, is that okay? Well, eventually, yes, they they got me in, and a year and a half later, my brother.

Vidal Sassoon6:52

But um

Presenter6:53

And what so how old would you have been when you went into the orphanage?

Vidal Sassoon6:56

Bah

Presenter6:56

I've

Presenter6:57

Right, you can remember that then.

Vidal Sassoon6:59

Oh, very much absolutely. And I also remember when any time they tried to look for me

Vidal Sassoon7:06

I was in this hot bath.

Vidal Sassoon7:09

It's the first house I'd ever lived in that had a bath. It was quite wonderful.

Presenter7:12

Yeah.

Presenter7:14

But it didn't have your mum. I'm imagining at five you probably missed your mum.

Vidal Sassoon7:17

Oh, very much, sir. Yeah. enormous

Vidal Sassoon7:21

Respect, not only respect for her, but rapport. We we got on so well.

Presenter7:26

How often did you see your mother in that period that you were in the

Vidal Sassoon7:29

They are allowed to come once a month.

Vidal Sassoon7:32

They felt that if a weekly visit would make it very awkward for everybody, it was a monthly visit.

Presenter7:38

Right. So you were in the orphanage for six years, so you you know, you you you obviously had time to think about w what had happened and why that happened. Did you talk to your mum about it when she came to visit?

Presenter7:49

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon7:49

On occasion, yeah. And uh she told me the truth.

Vidal Sassoon7:54

She wasn't too thrilled with my father, so she told me the truth and uh I understood actually.

Presenter7:57

Right.

Presenter8:00

Did she tell you you were coming out, or did you think that was always the way it was going to be?

Vidal Sassoon8:04

Oh no, the uh

Vidal Sassoon8:07

Germany invaded Poland on september the first, nineteen thirty nine, and by the third we France and Britain had declared war on Germany.

Vidal Sassoon8:18

And that day, literally that day.

Vidal Sassoon8:21

All the kids were taken to the country, to a place called Holt in Wiltshire.

Speaker 48:27

Yeah.

Presenter8:28

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon8:28

A small village thousand people.

Vidal Sassoon8:31

Far more sheep and cows than people.

Presenter8:34

What did you make of that? I mean, what a change.

Vidal Sassoon8:36

A nice family, by the name of Lucas, who took us in.

Vidal Sassoon8:41

And it was quite pleasant.

Presenter8:43

We will come right back to that in just a second, Vidal Sassoon. For now, it's time for some music, though. At the second disc that we're going to hear.

Vidal Sassoon8:51

That's Billy Eckstein. Now Billy Eckstein was the black S Frank Sinatra. I must have been about sixteen and we used to go down Petticoat Lane, and uh it was pro it was the first record I ever bought.

Speaker 49:06

Everything I have is yours, you're part of me.

Speaker 49:20

Everything I have is yours, my destiny.

Presenter9:32

That was Billy Eckstein with the Sunnybrock Orchestra, and everything I have is yours. So, Vidal Susung, when you were in the orphanage.

Presenter9:41

I read that you ran away once and you ran away to your dad's house. That's right. Right, right. Is that right?

Vidal Sassoon9:45

Right, right. Is that right? Well, I didn't know my m where my mother was. She wasn't with Katie anymore. Okay. She'd moved. I n I knew had no idea where she was.

Presenter9:50

Okay.

Vidal Sassoon9:55

But Shepherdsburg I knew.

Vidal Sassoon9:57

and my Aunt Polly was there called my father.

Vidal Sassoon10:01

who literally took me back to the orphanage.

Vidal Sassoon10:04

Very cold.

Vidal Sassoon10:06

And I decided there and then I didn't love him.

Vidal Sassoon10:09

Simple as that.

Presenter10:10

Did you ever see him again?

Vidal Sassoon10:12

Uh maybe he came once or twice, but um out of guilt. But uh no, not really.

Presenter10:19

To think about formative experiences, I can't think of one that would be much more formative than than that, than than spending your time in an orphanage and seeing your mother, you know, once a month. What what character do you think it formed in you?

Vidal Sassoon10:30

I don't regret the experience. I think it strengthened me. I really do. Uh we came back and we slept in shelters. Obviously they were the Le Frois were bombing every night.

Vidal Sassoon10:46

And I got a job on a bicycle carrying messages from the city to the docks. And it was pretty gruesome because at that time of the morning they were taking the bodies out from the night before. So we saw some pretty ugly sights. But, you know, when you're 14, everything's an adventure in a way.

Presenter11:09

No way.

Vidal Sassoon11:11

Exactly. It's never going to be you. It's always somebody else.

Presenter11:14

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon11:15

And

Vidal Sassoon11:18

Mother heard about it.

Vidal Sassoon11:21

And that stern look came into her face, the eyes, the whole thing, and she said, I've had a premonition you're going to be a hairdresser.

Vidal Sassoon11:31

To be continued.

Presenter11:32

To be continued. To be continued, Vidal Sassoon. For now, we're going to have to have some music, though. Let's fit that in. Tell me about your third track today. Tell me what it is.

Vidal Sassoon11:40

Oh, I took Ronnie to see, uh, Bruckner's ninth, but, um

Vidal Sassoon11:46

Pinka Suckerman was uh playing.

Vidal Sassoon11:49

That beautiful violin of his and uh

Vidal Sassoon11:53

We listened, and then he walked into where we were.

Vidal Sassoon11:58

having some refreshment, you know.

Vidal Sassoon12:00

And uh

Vidal Sassoon12:02

I said, Oh.

Vidal Sassoon12:04

Let me introduce you, because I've met him before.

Vidal Sassoon12:07

He came straight over to the table and gave Ronnie the biggest hug.

Vidal Sassoon12:11

He played Cincinnati so many times and she'd been to parties with him. So I felt like an absolute idiot. But um Bruckner I've always liked. I said to Pincus, I guess he's um the working man's marla and I got a severe dressing down.

Speaker 412:16

Uh

Vidal Sassoon12:31

Oh no.

Vidal Sassoon12:33

And he started giving me a lecture on Bruckner. So that's why it's there.

Presenter13:30

That was part of the first movement of Bruckner's Ninth Symphony with the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Colin Davis. So, Videlsis, and your mother did remarry and you were brought up i in a a family you were brought up by your your stepfather

Vidal Sassoon13:40

Oh yes.

Vidal Sassoon13:42

Marvelous Man, Nathan Goldberg, Nathan G recorded.

Presenter13:46

Nathan G. Tell me about him. A fascinating guy.

Vidal Sassoon13:48

I

Presenter13:49

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon13:49

I don't think he ever earned more than twenty-five pounds a week in his life. He was a machinist.

Vidal Sassoon13:55

He'd take us to a movie on a Saturday afternoon, and then next door was a bookshop.

Vidal Sassoon14:01

And he'd make us go in and feel the books and say, One day you'll be reading these. That's the kind of man he

Presenter14:08

Did he ever say, you know, you could you're a smart young boy, Vidal. May maybe you could get to college.

Vidal Sassoon14:15

My brother was always first, second. In those days they used to mark them first, second, third, and what have you. I was usually twenty eighth. I was very naughty. Once I came in eighth.

Presenter14:27

But this is interesting to me because you know you have an appetite. I mean, you've mentioned not just your love of music so far, but literature and the the books you had on the bookshelf. So you you had quite a late flowering in terms of the music.

Vidal Sassoon14:27

I'm not sure.

Vidal Sassoon14:34

But this was all later.

Vidal Sassoon14:37

Oh yes, I mean then I mean I anything I really wasn't interested in, I didn't study. And I remember a teacher saying to me one day, when I came eighth, mm, so soon.

Vidal Sassoon14:49

I see you have gaps between bouts of ignorance.

Presenter14:54

So you left school at 14 and mother says, I had a dream last night, it's a dream you're going to be a hairdresser, and you think what?

Vidal Sassoon15:01

Um it's a question of running away from home.

Vidal Sassoon15:05

Well, the idea of uh being a lady's head of so yes at the time.

Vidal Sassoon15:10

My mother took me into the salon, met Adolphe Kai and Adolph Kaim was a sort of the Raymond of the East End. And he said, Of course, you know, there's a hundred guinea fee because there's a lot of teaching to do.

Speaker 415:23

Okay.

Vidal Sassoon15:24

A two-year apprenticeship.

Vidal Sassoon15:26

My mother said, We don't have a hundred buttons. He said, Well, I'm afraid I can't take you and then I must have seen a Bad B movie the day before, because I opened the door for my mother, ushered her out, doffed my cap to the boss, and he followed us out and said, You seem to have good manners, young man. Start Monday and forget the fee. And he looked at my mother when he said that

Vidal Sassoon15:51

Her h her face glowed.

Vidal Sassoon15:53

You know, mine went very sad.

Presenter15:55

Hell yeah, it's really

Vidal Sassoon15:56

Yeah.

Presenter15:56

And so when you were working there, first of all, there wasn't you didn't fall in love with it?

Vidal Sassoon16:00

There was um no artistry in me that came out. I was just an average apprentice.

Vidal Sassoon16:07

and uh did what everybody else did. I didn't have any ideas. Hair didn't mean a thing to me at the time.

Presenter16:14

Right. And when did you actually get to start to cut here? How old were you?

Vidal Sassoon16:19

That's another story. Well, Adolph Cohen that is said, go down to Roughton House and find yourself a model. It's about time you did your first haircut.

Vidal Sassoon16:32

and I went down to Roughton House, which was the place where people out of luck or having problems, emotional problems, stayed.

Vidal Sassoon16:42

And uh this enormous guy came out.

Vidal Sassoon16:47

His name was O'Shaughnessy, a Professor, Professor O'Shaughnessy.

Vidal Sassoon16:52

And he came for a year.

Vidal Sassoon16:55

And can you imagine a fourteen year old kid learning about all those marvellous Irish writers? You know, it was it was just an extraordinary experience. He was a wonderful influence. He he actually got me interested in the theatre.

Presenter17:07

Here

Presenter17:12

Let's have some music then, Vidal. We have to fit in eight discs, so it's time to go to disc number four. Tell me about this. Why have you chosen this?

Vidal Sassoon17:20

Asnovore sings What Makes a Man a Man and this is to honour all the people I've worked with, homosexual or straight as they like to call them, and all the talent that came out of both groups. They've been a joy, so this is to one of them, and it's Asinovor.

Speaker 317:40

My mom and I will live alone, A grand apartment is our home.

Speaker 317:47

In a fair home to words

Speaker 317:52

I have to keep me company Two cats, a dog, a parakeet, Some plants and flowers

Speaker 318:03

I help my mother with the chores. I wash, she dries, I do the floors.

Speaker 318:09

We work together.

Presenter18:13

That was Charles Asnavour and What Makes a Man There can't, Fidel Saturn, be many hairdressers who've brawled in the streets with fascists. Tell me how that came about for you.

Vidal Sassoon18:23

Swinging Uh

Presenter18:24

Uh

Vidal Sassoon18:24

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon18:26

Well, at seventeen, I think it was. Moseley was let out of he was house arrest. But many of his thugs were let out of prison just after the war.

Vidal Sassoon18:38

and they started marching around the streets of London.

Vidal Sassoon18:42

Uh we've got to get rid of the yids and all that kind of nonsense, you know.

Vidal Sassoon18:47

Uh after the Holocaust, no one was going to put up with it.

Vidal Sassoon18:52

You know, never again was the theme, never again.

Presenter18:56

But what I mean, did you ever you know, fighting in the streets, did you ever get a thick lip or a black eye? Did you ever have to go into the salon with a

Vidal Sassoon19:02

Yes, I had a big bruise here. Fortunately the guy was only wearing a ring and not a knuckle duster.

Vidal Sassoon19:08

and uh we used to set with rollers and hairpins in those days, you know. And the client said to me, Good God, Vidal, you look awful. What happened? I said, Oh, nothing. I just tripped over a hairpin.

Presenter19:21

And you did you served in the Israeli army, didn't you? Yeah, a year of very punishing physical work, was it? I mean, hard.

Vidal Sassoon19:24

After a year.

Vidal Sassoon19:28

Yeah, we they trained I've never been so well trained. It was just incredible the way they trained us. And uh yeah, we saw some

Presenter19:31

It was

Vidal Sassoon19:37

sites we we knew we had to. There were only six hundred thousand Jews at the time, surrounded by one million Arab people.

Vidal Sassoon19:47

And I'm not suggesting they didn't have a cause, they did, but we needed a country so badly.

Presenter19:55

Do you think, Vidal Casim, you are and it's not an industry where I think this could be said of many people you are you're a you're a tough nut. Um you know, you're physically hardy, uh you seem to me emotionally very resilient the way you talk about your time and you know there there could be um many young men who would be broken by being in an orphanage for six years, or who would go into the army and think after three weeks, what the hell am I doing here? You seem only really to have um built on those experiences rather than let them undermine you.

Vidal Sassoon20:25

Yes, I said at the beginning, I think it b it um strengthened me. All the experiences that I had gave me strength rather than pulled me down.

Presenter20:35

It took quite a long time, didn't it, for you to sort of find your feet, find that it was the right thing for you to do. I mean, you spent a long time sort of slogging at your craft and working.

Vidal Sassoon20:44

It was nineteen fifty four. I had a seven hundred feet salon in Bond Street, the Oxford Street end, you know, and uh the first day there were three clients and the first month we couldn't pay our expenses, you know.

Vidal Sassoon21:02

And uh

Vidal Sassoon21:04

Eventually, after three months, it picked up.

Presenter21:06

Before you opened your own salon, when did you take the elocution lessons?

Vidal Sassoon21:11

God, in my twenties

Presenter21:12

Right.

Vidal Sassoon21:12

In my twenties, yes.

Vidal Sassoon21:15

I went to Iris Warren. I went up. She said, Annunciate.

Vidal Sassoon21:20

There were some words for me to read.

Vidal Sassoon21:23

I enunciated.

Vidal Sassoon21:24

And she said

Vidal Sassoon21:27

Bloody awful. But I think I can do something with you.

Presenter21:31

That exhibits a particular sort of determination. You know, certainly during the sixties that's when it became quite cool to be, you know, a bit of a boy, talk like that, having you know, it was um it was the time of Michael Kaine and Terry Stamp and all those people who actually part of the appeal was that they were rough around the edges.

Vidal Sassoon21:47

Yes, and they both stayed at my flat when I was in New York.

Presenter21:51

Michael Kane and Terry.

Vidal Sassoon21:52

Both of them.

Presenter21:53

At the same time?

Vidal Sassoon21:54

At the same time the best friends were never the same.

Presenter21:57

Yeah, so probably best you were out of town. Did you ever did you ever hit the town with those boys?

Vidal Sassoon21:58

Probably that's

Vidal Sassoon22:04

We were close friends when we were very young.

Presenter22:07

Right.

Vidal Sassoon22:07

Right. I don't see them very much anymore.

Presenter22:10

But when you were out on the time, what sort of can you tell me what you got up to?

Vidal Sassoon22:13

I would just say girls, girls, girls.

Presenter22:16

I've got it.

Presenter22:18

Uh tell me what we're gonna hear next. We're on disc number five.

Vidal Sassoon22:22

Oh, it's kiritanowa.

Presenter22:24

Yes, and tell me why you've chosen this.

Vidal Sassoon22:26

Because I met her on a T V show, and I thought this is the most gracious, charming lady I'd ever met.

Vidal Sassoon22:34

Uh that was the only time I met her.

Vidal Sassoon22:36

And I thought it'd be nice to have her on as a lover voice anyway.

Speaker 423:07

We know becoming our soul and heal.

Presenter23:09

Uh

Presenter23:43

That was Kiriti Kanawa singing part of Ambeldi one beautiful day from Puccini's Madam Butterfly with the National Opera Orchestra of Lyon conducted by Kent Nagano. So, Vidal Sassoon, you have been with your wife Ronnie for nearly twenty married for nearly twenty years. Yes. Twenty two years already. Twenty-two years altogether. Are you one of these people I ask this because Ronnie is your fourth wife. Are you one of those people who likes company, needs to be married?

Vidal Sassoon23:58

Yes, twenty-two years.

Vidal Sassoon24:05

On it.

Vidal Sassoon24:09

Well, I was so ambitious.

Vidal Sassoon24:12

that I ruined so many marriages.

Presenter24:13

Mare.

Vidal Sassoon24:14

They never saw me. I was either out doing shows, training,

Vidal Sassoon24:18

creating a team because I felt we could do something very special in the craft and neglected marriages. And I guess I learnt my lesson with Ronnie.

Presenter24:30

And w was it fortunate then that you met her at the point of in your life that you did when when the business stuff was being handled by other people?

Vidal Sassoon24:38

No question. I was sixty two, running round the world doing shows with the artistic team, and Ronnie was in her late thirties, which I thought was perfect.

Presenter24:48

Did she think it was perfect? Was she worried about the age gap?

Vidal Sassoon24:51

Yeah. Bev

Presenter24:52

Uh

Vidal Sassoon24:52

I haven't been anywhere near that subject. She never really has.

Vidal Sassoon24:57

You know, after those first few years of wild sex, then there's a fascination creeps in. And if you can hold that.

Vidal Sassoon25:05

And have it with a partner. I think you've got something good going.

Presenter25:09

You're very honest about saying that, you know, probably the collapse of other marriages was down to the fact that you were so focussed and obsessed on work. If you were a neglectful husband at times, were you what sort of father were you?

Vidal Sassoon25:21

Oh, that was different. Every weekend, or whenever I could, I was with the kids, taking them to whatever, and uh enjoying their company. They were a great bunch of kids.

Presenter25:35

And one of your kids, David, growing up now of course, was adopted. Did that come out of your own experience in as a youngster in the orphanage? Yes, it did. Did it?

Vidal Sassoon25:43

Yes, it did. Did it? David came out of that experience, yeah.

Vidal Sassoon25:47

and he needed some care and attention.

Vidal Sassoon25:50

But uh he's a man now and doing what he does and quite happy.

Presenter25:56

And when you were swept up by Hollywood and swept into this very glamorous uh life, di do you wonder and I'm now thinking a about your children. Of course, the the children of the Hollywood elite often do not lead happy lives. Did you worry about that with your children?

Vidal Sassoon26:10

Yes, and we worried about it because it's not a healthy place for children. It really isn't.

Presenter26:17

Yeah.

Presenter26:18

You said once that it is it's impossible to go through life in a fairy tale. The downs come and you have to steal yourself. And I'm imagining there that you were talking about your daughter.

Vidal Sassoon26:30

Yeah.

Presenter26:30

Yes. Katya, who was she was born in nineteen sixty eight and she died of an overdose when she was thirty three. Um how har I imagine that hit your family very hard indeed, and I imagine it's it's still something you live with daily, is it?

Vidal Sassoon26:36

Thirty-three years.

Vidal Sassoon26:44

Well, it was New Year's Eve when she died, and they called us New Year's Day first thing in the morning.

Vidal Sassoon26:50

Um

Vidal Sassoon26:54

Probably the hardest thing I've had to tackle.

Vidal Sassoon26:57

I had to get back to work as quickly as possible.

Vidal Sassoon27:02

because otherwise you are left there with thoughts of this beautiful child.

Vidal Sassoon27:08

Katya had the very had a wonderful opportunity of being one of those

Vidal Sassoon27:13

Made Hollywood stars kind of thing. She had the looks, she was intelligent.

Speaker 427:15

Uh

Presenter27:15

Okay.

Presenter27:16

Right.

Vidal Sassoon27:22

But she got into the drug habit, and each time that an opportunity came up, she literally shot herself in the foot.

Vidal Sassoon27:30

Um which was very, very saddening and

Vidal Sassoon27:35

You expected something worse to happen.

Vidal Sassoon27:39

And it did, unfortunately.

Presenter27:42

Time for some more music, Vidal. Disc number six.

Vidal Sassoon27:44

Well, I got threatened by a very beautiful lady, Ronny, who said if you don't play Brian Ferriers the way you look tonight, we won't be speaking this evening. We dined with him once and uh delightful man.

Speaker 428:01

On Sunday when I'm off the low

Speaker 428:06

When the world is cold, I will feel the glory just thinking of you.

Speaker 428:13

And the way you look tonight

Speaker 428:17

Unbelievable

Speaker 428:20

With your smile so warm and your cheeks so soft

Speaker 428:24

There is nothing for me but to love you Just the way you love tonight

Presenter28:32

That was Brian Ferry and the Way You Look Tonight, and that was for your wife, Ronnie. You've you've you've done well by her there. I want to ask you about the other woman in your life, then, Vidal, so soon, and that is your mother, Betty, who lived to the ripe old age of ninety seven, was it? Ninety seven. Yes, and she lived the last twenty years of her life in Los Angeles.

Speaker 428:36

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon28:41

See you.

Vidal Sassoon28:45

Mm-hmm.

Vidal Sassoon28:50

I brought her to Los Angeles. I wanted her to have some of the things she'd never had.

Vidal Sassoon28:57

Through a dead drive.

Presenter28:59

How did she live in Los Angeles?

Vidal Sassoon29:00

Well, she had her own flat in Century City and uh her own car.

Vidal Sassoon29:06

and a driver.

Presenter29:07

How did she take to life in L A?

Vidal Sassoon29:10

Well, she rather grew six inches.

Vidal Sassoon29:13

You know, and she wore white gloves when she went out and the hat. I thought she thought she was the que the Queen Mum. She looked like her, actually.

Presenter29:21

Right. Did you talk to your mother before she died about the journey you'd made?

Vidal Sassoon29:25

Yes, she was always talking about it, but she always said your brother was the clever one. He used to come first, second, or third in school. You know. That was my mum.

Presenter29:35

Let's have some more music then. We're on our seventh track today, Vidal Sassoon. Tell me what it is.

Vidal Sassoon29:40

Oh, I think you'll like this one.

Presenter29:42

Okay.

Vidal Sassoon29:43

Although we're playing Miles 8th, it was Miles 6th, Los Angeles.

Vidal Sassoon29:48

And um

Vidal Sassoon29:49

I got to know him. You know, Simon Rattle, that is, you know, through Zubin. Zubin was an old, old friend from way back. This is Zubin Meta. Zubin Mehta, I'm sorry, yes. I'm sorry to throw names around. But I I'm enjoying it. Okay. And um.

Presenter30:01

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon30:05

He said, Well, come to a concert.

Vidal Sassoon30:07

The fascinating thing was he hadn't hired a big car. A friend brought him with all his stuff, you know the tails a whole bit.

Vidal Sassoon30:16

And I said, I booked a restaurant, um, you know, and uh he said, No, Gizzy Gillespie is playing down the road.

Vidal Sassoon30:24

He said, Can I leave my gear in your car? I said, Sure. We dropped him off. We had the tails in the back of the car.

Vidal Sassoon30:33

And um I got a call saying, could you be at the airport at ten o'clock tomorrow morning?

Vidal Sassoon30:39

Need the tail

Presenter30:40

Need the tails back.

Vidal Sassoon30:40

I need the tails back, yes. But very special guy, marvelous personality.

Presenter30:41

Exactly.

Presenter31:46

That was part of Marlowe's Eighth Symphony with the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra with John Villers and the City of Birmingham Symphony Chorus and Youth Chorus and the London Symphony Chorus and the Toronto Children's Chorus, all conducted by Sir Simon Rattle. I'm imagining he did have his tails on for that one Vidal Cecil.

Vidal Sassoon32:02

So yeah.

Speaker 432:02

Uh

Vidal Sassoon32:02

Uh

Speaker 432:02

Uh

Vidal Sassoon32:02

Uh

Speaker 432:03

Uh

Vidal Sassoon32:03

Yeah.

Presenter32:03

You yourself live in in some splendour in the hills of L A.

Vidal Sassoon32:05

Splendid.

Vidal Sassoon32:08

Two of the two of the children, grandchildren, live in uh LA, which is nice. Yeah.

Presenter32:08

I

Presenter32:13

Uh Vidal Susun, you're eighty-three now. Um, still practicing yoga?

Vidal Sassoon32:13

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon32:18

Well, stretching. It gets harder because things start to fall apart.

Vidal Sassoon32:26

And you have no control over them, you know, they just do. So you just have to try that little bit harder, yeah.

Presenter32:32

You had a a quadruple heart bypass in your early seventies. Yes. You were seventy. Yes. You seem very engaged in life. Do do you feel you're eighty three years or does that does it come as a surprise to you when people say you're eighty three?

Vidal Sassoon32:35

Yes.

Vidal Sassoon32:43

I was lying in hospital.

Vidal Sassoon32:45

With pneumonia.

Vidal Sassoon32:47

They kept me in for three and a half weeks, and a couple of days was a bit dodgy.

Vidal Sassoon32:52

And I woke up one night smiling.

Vidal Sassoon32:55

I swear, and I thought I've had the best adventure you could possibly have.

Vidal Sassoon33:02

For a kid that started from nowhere.

Vidal Sassoon33:04

And uh you've been very, very lucky.

Vidal Sassoon33:07

So if you have to go now.

Vidal Sassoon33:10

I'm ready. Really. That's the way I felt. I have no problems about um being here or not being here.

Presenter33:18

I'm going to maroon you, Vidal, so soon to as you know, a desert island. Now you will be on your own, no family gathered round. How will you handle life on your own?

Vidal Sassoon33:27

I've got a reading room at at home. Why I just go in it.

Vidal Sassoon33:31

Get a book

Vidal Sassoon33:34

Write some notes. I've always written.

Vidal Sassoon33:36

I think one has to be autodidactic because if you don't get an education, then educate yourself, you know?

Presenter33:43

Right.

Vidal Sassoon33:44

Um I'm a loner very often.

Presenter33:48

Let's have our final piece of music, then, Vidal Sassoon.

Vidal Sassoon33:51

This is special in a way.

Vidal Sassoon33:53

The Count Baisy Orchestra with Count Baisy. I walk into the Beverley Wilshire Hotel. It's my fiftieth birthday, and there's Count Bazy on stage playing piano with that whole marvellous band.

Presenter34:03

Wow.

Vidal Sassoon34:08

And uh last year

Vidal Sassoon34:11

I saw him at Ronnie Scott's and I went back and met the band again and they said, Hey, can we do another gig in LA?

Vidal Sassoon34:19

I well, I said maybe on my hundredth.

Presenter34:52

That was the Count Basie Orchestra and April in Paris. So, Vidal Sassoon, it's book time. I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take a book. What what book would you like to take?

Vidal Sassoon35:06

Dostoevsky's uh The Brothers Cat cameras off.

Presenter35:10

Right, that's yours, I shall give you that. And we do allow you a luxury as well, to make life just a little bit nicer. What luxury would you like to take?

Vidal Sassoon35:10

That's not a

Vidal Sassoon35:16

Bye. Uh

Speaker 435:16

Tip.

Vidal Sassoon35:20

Good Lord. Um dozen bottles of uh Vidal Sassoon shampoo.

Presenter35:29

I will allow you uh more than a dozen bottles. I'll give you a couple of cases. And if I were to force you just to save one disc from the waves, which one disc would you run to save?

Vidal Sassoon35:30

Yeah.

Vidal Sassoon35:38

It would have to be miles eighth.

Presenter35:40

Okay.

Vidal Sassoon35:40

Yeah.

Presenter35:41

The Mahler is yours. Vidal Sassoons, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Vidal Sassoon35:46

Can I say that I've enjoyed this so much?

Presenter36:22

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio 4.