Arthur Edwards

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:36

My castaway this week is the royal photographer Arthur Edwards. He's the sun snapper who's become a Fleet Street legend. For more than thirty years his work has helped to document and define the extraordinary changes within our monarchy, capturing some of the most memorable moments of the House of Windsor.

Presenter0:55

from a hesitant teenage Diana pictured in a see through summer skirt, to the full throttle splendour of the marriage of Prince William in April of this year.

Presenter1:03

He's been on two hundred royal tours, seen inside the Oval Office and the Kremlin, shaken hands with Nelson Mandela and met the Pope.

Presenter1:13

It's a life far removed from his background in the East End of London, where money was tight and the war loomed large. Yet being a royal photographer wasn't something he'd hankered after. When the editor, Larry Lamb, told him he'd got it, his first thought was

Presenter1:28

What a rotten job. Really, you didn't want it, Arthur.

Arthur Edwards1:30

I didn't want it now. I was enjoying myself doing the cricket and football and general news.

Arthur Edwards1:36

Where do you start when they say, you know, find the next who's going to be the next Queen of England? Prince Charles said thirty was a good time to get married, and he was now twenty eight. And I just uh went to polo matches, one polo match after another, and and and the steady stream of girlfriends followed, and uh eventually found uh Princess Diana, Lady Diana.

Presenter1:55

Was it at a a Poland?

Arthur Edwards1:56

They had a polo match and someone said he's here with a lady called Lady Diana Spencer and I walked around this polo field until I saw this girl and she wearing a D necklace and I thought I bet that's her. So I said excuse me, are you Lady Diana Spencer? She said yes. I said may I take your photograph please? She said certainly. And she posed up. About six weeks later I saw them together on the River Dee up in Balmoral fishing.

Arthur Edwards2:19

And uh then we ran the story.

Presenter2:21

I suppose one of the most interesting parts of that story, and it is fascinating, is her saying yes. Is her not saying get lost or running away or

Arthur Edwards2:32

And she agreed, you know, and I remember when I did the picture of the see-through skirt at the nursery.

Arthur Edwards2:39

And I knocked on the nursery door and I said, Lady Diana Spence at work here. I said, Yes. I said, Would she come and pose a photograph for me?

Arthur Edwards2:46

Surprise, surprise, she said yes. And some people have sort of pilloried me for taking that picture against the light. But honestly, Kirsty, as I was taking the picture, the sun came out and I saw those beautiful legs and it was a page one picture and I remember the headline today, it was Charlie's Girl. And from then on it was just not a question of if but when.

Presenter3:06

And what did you when you started taking pictures of the Royals, what did you actually think of the Royals? Did you have an opinion?

Arthur Edwards3:13

Well, not much of an opinion. I wasn't exactly a a royalist, although

Arthur Edwards3:19

You know, over the years, I've grown to like them very much, especially Prince Charles. You know, I really like him an awful lot.

Presenter3:25

Didn't you turn up on his lawn once if he wasn't?

Arthur Edwards3:27

Oh, he reminded me that day. You're right, yes. I'll tell you that story. Um he'd just bought Highgrove and the editor sent me down to sort of see what I could get. And on the way I bought an ordnance survey map and noticed that there was a footpath running along the bottom hip of his ground.

Arthur Edwards3:45

And I'm walking along this path with a big lens on my shoulder, and he come galloping up on his horse.

Arthur Edwards3:51

What are you doing on my land? he screamed. I said, I'm not on your land, I'm on a public footpath, sir.

Arthur Edwards3:56

He said, well, public footpaths, he said, are for walking on, not taking pictures from.

Arthur Edwards4:01

So I don't know, I don't know what else to say. I said, well, I'm just doing my job.

Arthur Edwards4:05

And he said, some job. And I said, well, at least I've got a job. And I didn't mean that as an insult, but he took it as an insult. And he just sort of whacked his horse and he galloped back to the house and steam coming out of his ears. On the following Wednesday, his policeman came up to me and said, What happened the other day down at Highgrove? I said, Why? He said, Well, he came steaming into the room. He said, We're all sitting in the kitchen drinking coffee around the table. He whacked the whip, bang on the table. He said, The coffee cups went flying. He said, He said, You're supposed to be guarding me, and Arthur Edwards is on my front lawn.

Presenter4:36

Now Arthur Edwards these days, sitting here, a man in his very early seventies, uh you look back on that and you think, What, fair enough to be at the bottom of his lawn, or are you a bit embarrassed?

Arthur Edwards4:45

No, looking back on it, it was a different time, because it was the eighties. It was very aggressive the way we went about things then. Not so much these days. We're much more gentle, I mean, and much more I suppose realizing that they do have private lives as well. And we're very respectful of that.

Arthur Edwards5:04

But then it wasn't the case. You know, I went there to get a picture. But in fact, I never got a picture, but I got an awful telling off.

Presenter5:10

Lots to talk about, Arthur Edwards. We'd better fit in some music though. Tell me about the first disc that you've chosen to do.

Arthur Edwards5:15

Well, this is uh Prince Charles again and Diana at the Live Aid concert in

Arthur Edwards5:22

1985 and Bob Geldoff escorting them to their seats and giving the Prince some earplugs because the music's going to be loud and Princess declining and this is Queen and Freddie Mercury and Radio Gaga a performance that just took the place apart. It was the most wonderful, wonderful event.

Speaker 45:44

All we hear is Radio Gaga.

Speaker 45:49

Ready to go!

Speaker 45:51

Ready yo got the

Speaker 45:53

All we hear is Radio gaga

Speaker 45:57

Radio my life, radio what's new

Speaker 46:03

Ray on someone still

Presenter6:11

That was Queen with Radio Gaga at Live Aid back in nineteen eighty five. I'm imagining that I mean you've had a lot of professional occasions to rise to throughout the years, but but this year, in in April, you know, for you must have been a huge amount of planning for the wedding of Prince William and Kate Middleton.

Arthur Edwards6:27

In fact it was and uh I was of course hoping that it was going to be my picture. But you never know.

Presenter6:34

What do you mean, hope it?

Arthur Edwards6:35

Well, because it was my picture in the end, but you know, it could have been anywhere. It could have been, you know, someone running from the crowd.

Presenter6:35

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards6:43

It could have been William kissing his bride at the altar. Who knows where the picture was going to come. So everything had to be covered. But I wanted the picture outside in the Palace Forecourt to do the balcony because great things have happened on that balcony.

Arthur Edwards6:59

and I wanted that position, and I pulled quite a good pass, but it was outside the Abbey.

Arthur Edwards7:04

But I wanted to be outside the palace and uh

Arthur Edwards7:07

In fact, I'll tell you, now I haven't told anybody else this, but it was fixed because William asked me to do the pictures for him and Kate, and that was an absolute pleasure to do that. He's a fine man.

Presenter7:19

So what? You d you he said to you.

Arthur Edwards7:21

He wanted to do the balcony pictures for them. You know, that was my role. Obviously, I do it for the paper, but for them as well.

Presenter7:26

Did he ask you personally?

Arthur Edwards7:27

No, he didn't. He's his private secretary, but he did send me a lovely note when I sent him the pictures. And uh it was the page one picture, you see. But the thing is, every photographer is aiming for that page one on every newspaper.

Presenter7:40

I mean, it could have easily been I was thinking of, you know, the images of the day, there were m many of them that are seared onto people's consciousness,'cause it was a very theatrical day and very brilliantly pulled off. My favourite was the car going with the the Just Married thing on the back.

Arthur Edwards7:51

Oh, that was brilliant. But the funny was talking to Prince Charles about that. I said, Did you mind him borrowing your car? Because he loves that car. It's his birthday present from his mother on his 21st birthday.

Arthur Edwards8:01

And he said, oh no, he said, I I he asked me if he could use it. I said, was there it seemed to be a problem driving it? He said, yes, he said, because he didn't take the handbrake off.

Arthur Edwards8:13

So lucky he didn't break down halfway down the mail. And anyway, he said that and Harry dressed up the car, made it all look spectacular for him and the others, members of the royal family. So you know, it was absolutely a brilliant day.

Presenter8:13

He didn't break down halfway down the mount, yeah.

Presenter8:25

It must have been I mean, you you took the almost those sort of pictures of the first steps of Prince William, didn't you?

Arthur Edwards8:31

I did. I was there when his mother brought him out in her arms from the hospital when he was one day old.

Presenter8:36

Oh right, even then, yes.

Arthur Edwards8:37

Yeah, and then of course when he did the first steps, when he first did some talking and William crawling, and it was just phenomenal. So I photographed him.

Arthur Edwards8:47

all those years and um

Arthur Edwards8:49

I know, it's it was great to see him get married.

Presenter8:52

Let's have some more music then, Arthur Edwards. What's next?

Arthur Edwards8:55

Well the next one is Catherine Jenkins singing Pinus Angelicus, a soloist from our parish, in our parish church in St Joseph's in Hutton, sang this at our daughter's wedding and it just brings back just wonderful memories of that day. I mean any man will tell you, you know, escorting your daughter down the aisle on her wedding day is probably the most emotional thing you'll ever do in your life.

Speaker 49:15

Yes.

Speaker 49:19

I miss sunshine gauze.

Speaker 49:25

It's kind of dorm.

Speaker 49:31

But God is characters, the glorious charity in all

Speaker 49:44

Our brace.

Speaker 49:50

On it all could torment it all.

Speaker 49:56

Okay

Speaker 410:00

Or did it set a push and form it is?

Speaker 410:09

Oh bread.

Speaker 410:12

Oh, so

Presenter10:19

That was Catherine Jenkins singing César Franc's Panis Angelicus. So, Arthur Edwards, the conduct of the tabloid press in general, and we're not just here talking about the sun or the news of the world, is under particular scrutiny right now, and that there are plenty people who are complaining loudly and very seriously about hacking and so forth. Interestingly, a moment ago you said back in the eighties really almost anything went. It was a fierce environment. Do you think that generally there is a different attitude these days to pursuing people for pictures and making that front page lead?

Arthur Edwards10:54

Well, I hope there is because, you know, if we've not learnt anything, you know, from what happened to the princess about pursuit of celebrities and the royal family, I think we've learnt an awful lot, and I think we've come a long way. And it's getting less and less. The paparazzi photographer is finding that hard at the moment to make a living because you can't photograph them just willy-nilly now. When William expects a reasonable expectation of privacy, he demands it now. And they take action, and they will take action against photographers that abuse that.

Presenter11:28

And not just I mean, it's interesting I know obviously your focus is on the Royals, but you know, there were people like the late Amy Winehouse, Lily Allen has taken out an injunction, Sienna Miller, just to stop the paparazzi hounding them.

Arthur Edwards11:38

I agree. I don't think to gratuitously just photograph someone because they're a celebrity is right. I think that unless there's a story attached, a real news story, then that's fair enough because that's to be got. That story's got to be told. But if it's just gratuitously photographing someone just because they happen to be walking down the King's Road shopping, I think it's wrong, and I don't see any point of that.

Presenter11:55

Yeah.

Presenter11:57

But what if something really is a story? I mean, you will remember, I'm sure, very clearly the story of Princess Diana's uh pregnancy, where you did go with a a telephoto lens and take a picture of her pregnant on the beach. Do you look back across the

Arthur Edwards12:08

Yes, I did do that and it's the one regret I have. But you know, I arrived back in England after taking those pictures the next day and as I turned on the radio in my car I was being pilloried and I felt awful about that. And a few months later Princess Diala asked me about it and she said how much money did you make out of the Bahama Mama pictures?

Arthur Edwards12:31

I said, nothing, ma'am. I said, I got the same amount of money as going as I'd covered a court case in Bradford. I just got my expenses. And she smiled and she said, Well, pass me the Kleenex. So she was not unhappy about it. And when she said that, it made me feel a whole lot better about it. But

Presenter12:48

But you did I mean, when you went back to the Sun offices that day, it's true, isn't it, that Kelvin McKenzie, your then editor, did he hailed you as a hero.

Arthur Edwards12:52

Fantastic.

Arthur Edwards12:54

He called, they said, Kelvin Arthur's here. And he came and they lifted me up off the floor. And he said, You come back here a hero. You know, I.

Presenter13:01

So you wouldn't you wouldn't do the same thing today, wasn't it?

Arthur Edwards13:03

I wouldn't do the same thing, but you've got to remember there must have been about 40 photographers on that island, all trying for those pictures.

Speaker 413:09

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards13:10

And if I had not got them, they would have bought them off somebody else.

Arthur Edwards13:14

It's the first time and only time I photographed the Royals where they'd not known I was there.

Presenter13:18

Has there ever been a time when you have deliberately not taken a picture that you know would have probably earned you a front page lead?

Arthur Edwards13:24

Oh absolutely. One that particularly stands out in my mind was the Duchess of York when she was just not long after she's married. She's a big patron of motor neuron disease and there was this group of patients and the Duchess was there. As she went to sit down, the lady in waiting forgot to put the chair there and she fell backwards and her legs went up in the air, showing far too much. And instead of photographing, I picked her up. Now you know that and I know that, but the editor of the Sun of that day didn't know that. And I don't feel bad about that at all. You know, I felt that was the right thing to do. If that had been my wife falling back like that and someone had photographed her, I'd have been terribly upset.

Speaker 214:00

Yeah.

Speaker 414:01

Uh

Speaker 214:01

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards14:02

So I didn't, I just picked her up. And um I mean it would have been one page one for and that would have been my the whole of my uh sort of relationship with her would have ended.

Arthur Edwards14:12

And it went on to t we did some really nice things together.

Presenter14:15

Let's have some more music, Arthur. We're on uh the third disc now. What is it?

Arthur Edwards14:19

Oh, this is uh the Kaiser Chiefs and Ruby. Um

Arthur Edwards14:22

My second son, Paul, waited ten years for their first child and um him and his wife Laura, um they decided to call if it was a girl to call her Ruby.

Arthur Edwards14:33

As she was giving birth to Ruby in the hospital, the Kaiser Chiefs were number one with this song Ruby that was playing in the delivery room, actually on radio too. So, you know, we've got to have this.

Presenter14:40

It was playing, was it?

Speaker 414:47

Never be said that the romance is dead Cause there's so little else occupying my head There is nothing I need Except the function to breathe But I'm not really fussed, doesn't matter to me Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, Ruby

Presenter15:14

That was the Kaiser Chiefs and Ruby, and you really were dedicating that to your your son Paul, to his daughter, who is called Ruby.

Arthur Edwards15:20

Yeah.

Presenter15:21

Let's take a little trip back then, Arthur Edwards. We're going to go to the East India Dock Road and it's nineteen forty. That's when you're born. What what are your earliest memories?

Arthur Edwards15:28

That's what

Arthur Edwards15:30

Well, I was born in August and the blitz started a month later. But um mum and dad, you know, they built a shelter at the bottom of the garden and we rushed down there when the bombs were dropping near the docks we lived.

Arthur Edwards15:41

That went on for a while until they decided to send me away to be evacuated. And uh I was away for uh

Arthur Edwards15:49

It was three years and I didn't come back to the end of the war.

Arthur Edwards15:53

And because of the war mum and dad couldn't get down to see me. So I think one visit Dad made and he made a little toy lorry for me. I'll never forget when he gave it to me. He he made it in his in his workshop. And um He was a lorry driver, wasn't it? He was a lorry driver, but he was on war du you know, he was travelling to Scotland with with stuff for the troops and everything.

Presenter16:05

He was a

Presenter16:11

When you returned to London, do you have a memory of that?

Arthur Edwards16:14

Oh my god, yeah. Um my dad picked me up from uh from Paddington Station.

Presenter16:18

Were you all labelled up? Yeah, all labelled up, yeah.

Arthur Edwards16:19

Yeah, or Arthur Edwards.

Arthur Edwards16:23

And uh we're driving along

Arthur Edwards16:25

and um a cat ran across it and of course he braked and I went forward and smashed my face on the front of the dashboard and of course when I walked in the house my mother was there with a new baby sister I didn't even know about. Have they been beating him, she says. Have they been beating him? To tell the truth, he said, No, no, he said, I stopped with this cat. Oh, you and your cats, you know, she said to him.

Presenter16:48

What's your mum like?

Arthur Edwards16:49

My mum was fantastic. My mum, Dolly, was a great character. She had a great sense of humour, and I get that sense of humour from her today.

Arthur Edwards16:56

Struggled, you know, never went to work. Obviously, women didn't go to work then, they reared their children at home. It was money was very tight, but she sort of.

Arthur Edwards17:03

made it go round and she she wanted more for her children than just to be, you know, dockers. I mean, you know, we were surrounded by the docks, but she wanted more for us than that.

Presenter17:12

And your first camera was y y it was your mum, was it? Like

Arthur Edwards17:15

My mum bought me a run. How old were you? I think it was my 18th birthday. She bought it for me.

Presenter17:16

How old were you?

Presenter17:20

Why did she buy you a camera?

Arthur Edwards17:21

Because I wanted to be a photographer. And you know, my mum now my dad was dead. My dad died when I was fifteen, so sixteen. So she was office cleaning, so that was a lot of money for her to find for that to get that camera for me.

Presenter17:34

Do you know how much it was?

Arthur Edwards17:35

I can't remember that. It must have been seventy pounds, sixty, seventy pounds, which was which was an a terrific amount of money.

Presenter17:40

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards17:40

Then I worked like Billio, you know, to get the money back. You know, I have to get married, I have to work to do that.

Presenter17:44

So you're very young when your dad died. Did that come out of the blue? Did

Arthur Edwards17:46

That you might have.

Arthur Edwards17:47

Uh

Presenter17:47

Two.

Arthur Edwards17:47

Did, yeah. I was walking home from uh from my first job and I've got a job as a in the dark room, working as in the dark room in a in a studio in the West End and uh an uncle stopped me and said, Where are you going? I said, I was I might go to the pictures.

Arthur Edwards18:00

And he said, Don't you know your dad's dead? And I said, No, I don't.

Presenter18:03

Uh

Arthur Edwards18:04

And uh

Presenter18:05

Did you know your father was ill?

Arthur Edwards18:06

He was ill, but I never thought it was that bad. And it was a shock. It was a shock. And a shock for my mother. I mean, her hair fell out and everything. My mother sort of ages to get over it, but.

Arthur Edwards18:15

And, you know, things for us as a family turned downwards then because we had a house that went with his job, and so we lost that house, and then we had to move into a very small flat.

Arthur Edwards18:23

You know, and then mum had to go to work and and for a few years it was pretty miserable. You know, it was it was it was tough times, but you don't r when you've got nothing you don't realize how tough it is. All you know is if you want anything, you've got to go out and work for it and then you appreciate it more.

Presenter18:36

Good lesson. We're going to have some music, Arthur. We're on uh Disc number four now. Tell me about that. What are you doing?

Arthur Edwards18:41

Oh, this is MacFly. I was asked to go to Uganda with them to when they were recording a song for Comic Relief and I bought their album and played it and played it in the car for a fortnight before, so I knew every single song.

Arthur Edwards18:55

And I think they appreciated our taking the trouble. And when we got back out the blue, they invited my grandchildren and their friends to one of their concerts. And so this really is for my grandchildren.

Speaker 419:08

It's all about you It's all about you It's all about you It's all about you Yesterday you asked me something I thought you knew So I told you with a smile It's all about you

Presenter19:36

That's McFly and all about you. That's one of the grandchildren, Arthur Edwards. You've got two sons and a daughter, and your two sons, I think, quite remarkably have gone into the same line.

Arthur Edwards19:39

Uh

Presenter19:45

Of work as you remarkable because when your dad is so good and so well known for doing something.

Presenter19:50

You're setting yourself a pretty high bar doing that. Did you worry for them that they wanted to be photographers?

Arthur Edwards19:54

For Paul I did, yeah. But um Paul, um my second son, yeah, he had a hard time of it at first because, you know, they'd say, Oh, you're only here'cause your dad's a photographer, you know. But Paul's work is brilliant now and he does it with no fuss and he's got a really kind nature and, you know, he's uh he's uh superb at what he does.

Presenter20:11

Your other son, John, is in fact can I call him your boss?

Arthur Edwards20:14

He is my boss, he's been my boss for ten years now. What's his title? He's pictured. He's a picture editor of the Sun, yeah. And it's not always as easy as people think it is. For a start, I don't want ever to mess up because he would then have to say to the editor.

Presenter20:17

What's his title? He's picture editor.

Arthur Edwards20:29

Arthur's messed up. He didn't want to say that, you know, because he he doesn't want me to fail and I don't want to disappoint him. So you have to kind of work even harder to make that work. But the one golden rule that he insists upon more than anybody is that once we leave the office, we never talk about work.

Presenter20:44

What about meeting when did you meet Nelson Mandela?

Arthur Edwards20:46

Well, when John Major went to South Africa after apartheid and there'd been elections, there was a state banquet and I was waiting in the banquet for John Major to arrive and just in walked Nelson Mandela. And he came up to me and he said, Are you with Mr. Major? I said, Yes. He said, Oh, welcome to South Africa. And then he went over to John Major's press secretary and he shook his hand. And I photographed that, and he has that on his wall at home. But no one photographed me doing it, unfortunately. But it was a great occasion.

Presenter21:15

And there was a photographer there to record the moment I if I recall this correctly, the headline was Papa Meet Snapper. You did meet the poll. Yeah, which way round it was, anyway.

Arthur Edwards21:22

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards21:24

Snapper music, yeah, which way rag it was anyway. Yeah, that wasn't very long ago, actually, and with Prince Charles and the lovely Camilla in the Pope's private office in Rome, and I was the pool photographer, and the Holy Father said, oh, is this the British press? And he said, yes, yes, Your Holiness, he said. And that man there, Mr. Edwards, he said, has been photographing me for over 30 years. And he's a Catholic. And of course, when the session was over, the protocol officer said, look, put your cameras down and come over and meet the Holy Father. And I did. And then walked to the bus, and I was in a daze. The phone rings, and it's my son, John, who's the boss, and said, just tell me there's a picture of this. Just tell me there's a picture of this. And there was. And there was, yeah, the Vatican photographer had taken it. And it's just one of the great memories, great memories of my life.

Presenter22:14

Let's have some more music. What's next?

Arthur Edwards22:16

Well, my next song is by my favourite singer, Leonard Cohen.

Arthur Edwards22:21

I'm the only one in my family that l likes Leonard and I went to see him in concert a couple of years ago and it was the best concert I ever went to and I picked this song, um The Tower of Song.

Speaker 222:32

Well my friends are gone.

Arthur Edwards22:34

Uh

Speaker 222:34

And my hair is grey.

Speaker 222:37

I ache in the places where I used to play And I'm crazy for love

Speaker 222:45

But I'm not coming home.

Speaker 222:51

I'm just paying my rent every day in the Tower of Song.

Presenter23:00

That was Leonard Cohen and Tower of Song. So, Arthur Edwards, I mentioned in the introduction that some of the most enduring images that you've taken were of Princess Diana. She was, of course, very photogenic, but she did travel beyond just being a fashion plate and having pretty pictures taken of her. There were tours that she did, landmines was, of course, one of the last ones. But also, I remember pictures from a tour of Zimbabwe that I think it was you that went on with. She was in the feeding station. It looked from the pictures like she really was in the feeding station and she really was doling out the food when she was in the middle of the day. Well, she did everything, yeah.

Arthur Edwards23:15

No, for the word.

Arthur Edwards23:18

Zahood.

Arthur Edwards23:24

Yeah, with

Arthur Edwards23:25

Okay.

Arthur Edwards23:30

Well, she did every kid, yeah. Every kid that was there that day in the queue, she gave them the food. She didn't just do it for the photograph, yeah. And that I mean.

Arthur Edwards23:38

That woman had amazing compassion, and I see it in her boys now. I remember in in Nigeria she held the hands of a leper. He'd lost several fingers, and she held his hand and looked into his eyes.

Arthur Edwards23:49

and made him feel the most important person in the whole world.

Arthur Edwards23:53

That you don't learn that skill, you know, that's something you've got, and she had it in bucket loads.

Presenter23:58

I mean, you you took of course one of the most famous photographs of her. At the time people said it was entirely emblematic of the state of their marriage. There she was sitting in front of the greatest monument to love that's ever been built at Haj Mahal on a tour she was with Prince Charles. Uh do you think that picture was staged? Were you aware that she was sending you and the rest of the press score a message there?

Arthur Edwards24:16

Of course, there it was, all choreographed. Every person had been cleared out. There was no one in the background just her sitting on this store and this mass of photographers taking this picture. And you know, in many ways I felt sorry for the Prince because in nineteen eighty

Arthur Edwards24:32

I'd gone to the Taj with Prince Charles, and that's when he just started his relationship with Princess Diana, and we sort of said, you know, she's a lovely girl she is, and you know. He said, Yes, he said.

Arthur Edwards24:43

He said, you can live with a girl for two years, he said, before you get married. He said, but I have to get it right first time, or otherwise you'll be the first to criticise me. And they were prophetic words, because there we were back at this great monument to love. This man built this great mausoleum for his wife. And of course it was on that trip where they were playing polo and when he went to kiss her she moved her head sideways and that was it. And then of course the game was up. You know, it was just a question of not if they were going to separate, but when they were going to separate.

Arthur Edwards25:16

It happened and uh it was one of the saddest days, I think.

Presenter25:19

Speaking of monuments to love, you have been married f fifty years this year?

Arthur Edwards25:24

Fifty years on Friday actually.

Presenter25:25

What have you built for Ann then?

Arthur Edwards25:28

Uh well, what have I built for well, I'll tell you what, I've got married when I was twenty one and uh I've never regretted a day of it. And I look at her and um

Arthur Edwards25:38

I know I did the right thing.

Arthur Edwards25:41

And it was the right thing, you know, I did the right thing and uh no regrets. We've got three fabulous kids and you know, when I was working hard in the seventies and eighties, like I was working like a fiend to make something of myself.

Arthur Edwards25:54

She brought up three great kids and they're brilliant citizens and they're and I'm very proud of them all.

Presenter25:59

Let's take a break for some music, Arthur. What are we going to hear now? We're down at disc number six. What's this?

Arthur Edwards26:04

This is um Brian Ferry who did an album on Bob Dylan songs.

Arthur Edwards26:10

I love Bob Dylan, I think he's one of the greatest songwriters and performers ever, but I love Brian Ferrer's version of A Simple Twist of Fate.

Speaker 426:19

They sat together in the park

Speaker 426:23

As the evening unsky be dark She looked at him and he felt a spark Tingle to his bone

Speaker 426:32

Just then it felt alone.

Speaker 426:35

And wish that he'd gone stray

Speaker 426:38

Watch out for a simple twist of fate.

Presenter26:44

That was Brian Ferry and Simple Twist of Fate. She looked at him and he felt a spark, as they said in the spark. And I wonder throughout all these decades, as you've watched the tumultuous things on occasion that the royal family has been through, has it been a solace for you to be able to go home to what sounds to me to have been an incredibly solid and stable family? You know, one woman for fifty years, three children who've all your daughter runs her own nursery now, your boys are both photographers, you know, everything has gone well.

Arthur Edwards26:48

That's just right, yeah.

Arthur Edwards26:56

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards27:06

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards27:09

And your boys are both photographers.

Arthur Edwards27:12

Yeah, it has gone well. And yeah, I do. I do thank God for that. You know, as I always said, it's bad at work. It's always great at home. And you know, there's been some bad moments, you know, when Diana died. I mean, that was terrible. I got called in the middle of the night, get to Paris.

Arthur Edwards27:25

Land in Paris, be told by the office she's dead. I mean, there's a woman I worked 17 years with, and there she's bang wiped out. And then just so you.

Presenter27:32

So you are living there with a very strange situation because, on the one hand, this was a woman who you had been intimately working with over the years, who you knew.

Arthur Edwards27:37

working with over here.

Presenter27:39

Relatively well.

Arthur Edwards27:40

So you have

Presenter27:41

So you had to do your job, and at the same time you felt I'm imagining a sense of turmoil, of devastation, of sorrow.

Arthur Edwards27:48

And I'd shut it all out of my mind. I just got on with getting this picture, getting the first edition. And I remember being at the hospital as the coffin was leaving, and Anne rang me and she said, Are you okay? and I said, you know.

Arthur Edwards28:01

The coffin's coming out now and I started to cry and I was trying to take this picture and it was just uh unbelievable and that she'd gone and uh and it was when that coffin came out of the hospital in Paris

Arthur Edwards28:13

With the the President's uh soldiers lining the the route got it and and that hit me then it was she'd gone and it was wow.

Presenter28:20

What about in in the time that passed after that, of course? It was um th the photographers who were chasing her car were seen to be at least a contributing factor in the car crash. Was there a point at which you thought

Presenter28:36

I've had enough of this, this is not the game for me, I can't I can't be part of this.

Arthur Edwards28:40

You know, I did think about having done that in my wild days pursuing people in cars. I realised then, thank God that didn't happen to me, that I didn't cause anybody's death. But you know, when you know, I covered that, the inquest jury when it went back to Paris and looked at where the scene of the accident was, and I stood by that tunnel for an hour and a half and realised that if you went in that at any speed, you were risking your life. But that particular occasion, when she walked through those doors, and if you remember the pictures, the video of her walking through those doors, the Ritz Hotel in Paris, and the look on her face, she looked so unhappy. And you know, the one regret I have was she probably feeling very unhappy when she died.

Presenter29:26

You gave evidence at a parliamentary select committee, yes. At the time they were this is much more recently they were looking into the press coverage of the royal family. There had been complaints about the coverage of Kate Middleton prior to her engagement to Prince William. When you watched the frenzy began again around her, you know, when you watched that, did you fear for her?

Arthur Edwards29:29

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards29:34

Like they

Arthur Edwards29:40

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards29:48

I did. I thought it was all right. Here we go again. You know, there's people's not going to learn their lessons. I mean, uh.

Arthur Edwards29:54

And I know that, you know, William was was terribly upset by that and and since then it's stopped. We've moved on from that now and and hopefully it won't ever come back.

Presenter30:04

Let's have some music, Arthur. We're done at disc number seven.

Arthur Edwards30:08

Oh Travis, I was asked to go to Southern Sudan with Fran Healy, who's the singer in Travis, and of course when I sat down with Fran in our little tent in the middle of nowhere with no lights, we talked about his songs and I said, you know, tell me about Flowers in the Window. And he said, well, I was in France and I was with Nora, who's now his wife. I realised that she was the woman I wanted to spend the rest of my life with and have children with. And I looked up and I saw these flowers in this window at this French chateau. And he said, I wrote that song in 20 minutes. And it turned out to be one of his biggest hits. And it's, of course, Flowers in the Window.

Speaker 430:45

When I first told you I was cold

Speaker 430:50

A melting snowman I was told

Speaker 430:55

But there was no one there to hold.

Speaker 430:59

For I swore that I would be alone forevermore While look at the now flowers in the window, such a lovely day

Speaker 431:11

And I'm glad you feel the same as to stand up

Presenter31:16

That was Travis and Flowers in the window. I should tell people, Arthur Edwards, you were singing along to that, you know all the words.

Arthur Edwards31:20

I like it. Yeah, well, he dedicated that to me at a concert once. I was so flattered.

Presenter31:25

Looking at a lot of your photographs, I was noticing there are a lot of recent, very happy pictures of the Prince of Wales. Have you noticed that? I mean, people do say that, and of course it's a nice story that now that he is remarried that he has he's a lot more at home with himself than he ever was before.

Arthur Edwards31:40

Oh yeah, it's been brilliant. Since two thousand five when he married Camilla, it seems like a huge weight was lifted off his shoulders and he can now be himself. And to me, you know, I think that perhaps he should have married her when he had the chance, when he was a young man, but he had a lot to do.

Arthur Edwards31:56

and couldn't and probably regrets it, but you know now of course they're together and I see them together and they're incredibly happy.

Presenter32:04

We talked earlier about you uh treading across the end of his lawn on the public footpath, and he remonstrated with you.

Arthur Edwards32:07

No.

Presenter32:10

You're a different man now. He's a different man now.

Presenter32:14

In you know, in parallel lines, you've sort of grown up and grown old together.

Arthur Edwards32:18

Yeah, I think so. I think that's true. And you know, I've covered him for 35 years nearly now. And I've seen him from sort of Harry's age, you know, the young man about town and the Playboy Prince and all those names that went with it. Now I see this man who his work is immense. You sound like a fan. A huge fan. He spends hours and hours working on his charitable work because he's got so much to achieve.

Presenter32:45

Um, you were awarded it was an MB, wasn't it, in two thousand and three. What what do you think your dear old mother would have made of that?

Arthur Edwards32:47

Yeah.

Arthur Edwards32:50

God, she'd have been so proud. She would have told the whole parish. Yeah, she would have been so immensely proud. And as I was, you know, when I got the letter, I was gobsmacked. And it was a brilliant day. And the Queen, she said to me, I can't believe I'm giving you this. She pinned the medal. She said, how many years have you been coming down here photographing me? I said, ma'am, it's 27 years. She said, well, let's have our photograph taken together.

Presenter33:12

Well, I was going to say are you thinking about retiring, then of course it occurs to me that it's a Diamond Jubilee next year, so you're definitely not going to retire.

Arthur Edwards33:17

It's a massive year next year, yeah. I'm really looking forward to it. And then, of course, she'll go to the Olympics and it will be a massive year next year.

Presenter33:19

Yeah.

Presenter33:24

And has Anne said to you after that, Arthur, hang up your camera.

Arthur Edwards33:27

She says, as she put her nurse's dress on this morning going to work, you you pack out when you want to pack up. If you do what you love, carry on doing it.

Presenter33:36

Let's have your final disc then, Arthur Edwards. What is it?

Arthur Edwards33:38

What is it?

Arthur Edwards33:39

Uh this year I did the best tour of the Queen I've ever done, and it was to Ireland, our nearest neighbour.

Arthur Edwards33:45

And the last day in Dublin, the British ambassador had a concert. The opening performance was by two award-winning school choirs, one from Belfast and one from Cork, and they mixed together and they sang Danny Boy. And that song means a lot to me. My wife's father was named Danny, and a great friend of ours who

Arthur Edwards34:08

Died Too Young, that was played at his funeral, so it means a lot to me, that song.

Arthur Edwards34:13

And I think it meant a lot to the Queen because that concert, I've never seen the Queen, so I moved. It was a great end to the visit.

Speaker 434:24

Hearts of ice are going from gland to glare, and down the windside.

Presenter34:52

That was Danny Boy, sung by the combined school choirs of the Methodist College, Belfast, and Presentation College, Cork, with the RTE National Symphony Orchestra conducted by David Brophy. So, Arthur Edwards, we come to that moment where it's time for the books. I give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to take another book along.

Arthur Edwards35:11

Well, I've thought about this long and hard and uh I'd like to take uh a photographic album with my family, pictures and friends in.

Presenter35:19

Okay. And what about a luxury?

Arthur Edwards35:20

Uh well I thought hard about that too and uh I'd like a radio, a big powerful radio where I could get radio for.

Presenter35:28

I don't really think that's strictly alive.

Arthur Edwards35:30

That's not allowed to be.

Presenter35:31

I'm sorry, I know I'm being harsh, but I

Arthur Edwards35:32

Well in that case I'll have to have uh an inexhaustible supply of tea and and a kettle. Best thing in the morning is a cup of tea and listening at the Today programme. Well if I can't have the Today programme I'll just have the tea.

Presenter35:44

Okay, the T is yours then. And if you had to pick just one of these eight discs today from your carefully chosen list, which one would it be?

Arthur Edwards35:51

Big Pilus Angelicus. It's the most moving thing for me. Moving him and uh

Arthur Edwards35:56

and great memories.

Presenter35:57

Arthur Edwards, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Arthur Edwards36:01

Thank you very much.

Presenter36:37

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc.co.uk slash Radio Four.