Len Goodman

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is Len Goodman, a star and the head judge of Strictly Come Dancing. He was tripping the light fantastic when to day's hoofers were shuffling around in nappies. Born in London's East End as a kid, he was the original barrow boy, selling fruit and veg on his grandfather's stall. He went on to work on the docks as a welder.

Presenter0:54

But come Saturday night he would scrub up, don his best threads and head for the Embassy ballroom in Welling, where he'd wow them with his fleckles. A T V phenomenon now on both sides of the Atlantic, his success would surely confound his head teacher, who predicted little Len would be a failure in life, adding, If you think you're only in this world to have a laugh and enjoy yourself, you'll be in for a big shock when you do get a job, and you must look back at that and laugh yourself.

Len Goodman1:20

Well, I do laugh a bit, but you know, he was he was pretty near the truth, and it was only a bit of luck that things turned out how they did. You know, if I hadn't hurt my foot playing football, and one of my mates used to go to a dance studio, and I used to take the Mickey out of him terrible, and he said, Come up there. So up I went with him. I had a winkle picker on my left foot and a carpet slipper on the right foot, and I just loved it. And of course, there was about four boys and about thirty girls, and I was twenty-one, and all you're interested in is meeting girls, and off I went. So, without that little bit of intervention by luck,

Speaker 21:36

Come up.

Len Goodman1:56

Who knows where I would have been.

Presenter1:57

Like millions of others, I watch you on Strictly Come Dancing, and I know that clearly as a judge and somebody who understands and knows what he's looking for, you do take the judging seriously, but it looks to me like you are having a tremendously good laugh.

Len Goodman2:10

Best don't tell the B B C or anyone else, but it's the best job in the world. I turn up on a Saturday night.

Len Goodman2:18

I just say keep your head up, cock your leg up higher and uh you know and and they pay me for it. It's just a lovely job, it's the best job.

Presenter2:26

And you say you came to dance by accident. More on that later, I'm sure. But in terms of strictly come dancing, you didn't think you were going to get the call. Tell me what happened.

Len Goodman2:35

Well

Len Goodman2:36

When Strictly was coming up, all my friends in the dance business were saying there's going to be this new show of dancing professionals with celebrities and they're looking for judges and my mates used to phone me up, I've just been up to the BBC and have you done it yet? I used to started off saying no, I've not been asked, but eventually I got so fed up I lied and I said, Yeah, I went, I'm not going to do that. But anyway, three weeks before the show, I got the call.

Len Goodman3:04

Blow me tight, they gave me the job. I couldn't believe it.

Presenter3:08

Now you uh take dancing understandably it's been your profession for you know forty odd years. You've run a dancing school, you've been a judge at the highest level. You you take dancing very seriously and a lot of hard work goes into it for people who are competing. Did you worry that television, primetime, B B C One were gonna turn it into a little bit of a joke, something to laugh at?

Len Goodman3:26

Well, that was my first worry. I didn't want to be involved in something that was going to be a Mickey take of ballroom dancing because it's been my career. I think people's idea of ballroom dancing was from Heidi High that used to be on, and there was a mincey sort of a guy and a lady in a great big parachute of a dress. That's what people thought dance teachers were. And I think strictly helped to sort of give it a bit of credibility. I didn't think it would last. You know, I didn't dream that it would catch everyone's imagination so much.

Presenter3:58

How's life as a superstar, then?

Len Goodman4:00

Well, I don't ever feel I don't ever feel in any way like a celebrity or or anything. But I've got to say, coming here and doing Desert Island discs, I feel I have made it. You're not

Presenter4:14

You're not g you're not giving me some of that barrel boy flaming.

Len Goodman4:16

No, no, trust me. Look, look into my eyes. Hold my gaze. Truly. Desert Island is Olen Goodman. Come on.

Presenter4:23

Right. Tell us about your first track then, Lynn. What are we going to look forward to?

Len Goodman4:27

Listen, I'm going to be on a desert island. I'm going to get fed up. I'm sure I will. And so, I think this first track is a track that everyone should wake up to because it makes you feel great. And I remember as a kid, I used to go to the cinema all the time, and I loved all the musicals. And Singin' in the Rain was one of my absolute favourites. And this particular track and this particular scene was wonderful.

Speaker 24:54

Good morning. Good morning. We've talked the whole night through. Good morning. Good morning.

Len Goodman5:01

Attempts.

Speaker 25:01

To you Good morning, good morning

Speaker 25:06

It's great to stay up late. Good morning. Good morning to you.

Speaker 25:13

When the band began to play, the stars were shining bright.

Speaker 25:17

Now the milkman's on his way. It's too late to say good night. So good night.

Presenter5:23

I feel better already. That was Good Morning from the original soundtrack to Singin' in the Ring. Were you doing all the steps in your next to that?

Speaker 25:23

I can't.

Len Goodman5:28

I can see myself just shuffling about and giving it some yeah

Presenter5:33

And I said you're a star on both sides of the Atlantic regularly in America. It's called Dancing with the Stars there. It pulls in about twenty three million viewers. Here in Britain, again, what do you get? Twelve, thirteen million. How much of your life do you spend in airports, I'm wondering? Quite a lot.

Len Goodman5:37

And it pulls in.

Len Goodman5:39

The other side.

Len Goodman5:42

Yeah.

Len Goodman5:45

Well, in in the autumn when we do dancing with the stars and strictly, I do strictly come dancing on a Saturday, and then Sunday morning I fly to Los Angeles.

Presenter5:54

Which is uh sort of how long that is that's a good one.

Len Goodman5:56

Eleven hours? Then the show over there is Monday and then they do the result show on a Tuesday. Then Wednesday I fly home, which gets me back in Th Thursday.

Len Goodman6:06

And then Saturday it all starts again. Just as well I'm young and fit.

Presenter6:09

Yeah, well you do look super fit, and I mean you're not exactly old, but for a man in his sixties that is a very punishing schedule.

Len Goodman6:15

Yeah, early sixties.

Presenter6:18

Early sixties. Is it true that you and Bruno, when you're in LA, you do you share a flat?

Len Goodman6:23

Now we don't share a flat, but they put us in the same apartment block.

Presenter6:27

This is one of your fellow judges.

Len Goodman6:28

And um he does.

Presenter6:30

Peter

Len Goodman6:30

Yeah.

Presenter6:30

He does the cooking and you do the ironing.

Len Goodman6:31

He can't iron, and I love ironing, but I can't cook.

Len Goodman6:35

So I stand there ironing his stuff and he's out cooking away, so yeah, it works fine.

Presenter6:41

Uh in Britain you get a a train or a bus to the studios, yes.

Len Goodman6:44

Yeah.

Len Goodman6:45

Yeah, I know you know, they they offer me a car, but I

Len Goodman6:49

I'll be doing with it really, sitting there like little Lord Fonteneuye. No, it's not my cup of tea. I'm just I have no feeling of celebrity and I don't particularly want to be a celebrity. I'm blessed that the BBC gave me the opportunity to do strictly come dancing, which was wonderful. I'm just happy who I am doing what I'm doing. And I hopefully, and I always ask people who've known me, have I changed? And and they say no. And I d the trouble is everybody else has changed around me. I am just the same. I'm old Lane Goodman, a dance teacher from Dartford. But, you know, I'm not like Tom Cruise. I don't get floods of people coming up and this and that. But, you know, I'll be in supermarket getting bits and pieces and the woman behind me or in front of me who absolutely are experts on come dancing. If if if I was ever kicked off, I'd just have to go to any supermarket, pick any woman. They are absolute experts now.

Speaker 27:25

No.

Presenter7:40

Speaking of experts, what is a fleckle, Len?

Len Goodman7:42

A fleckle is in the Viennese waltz. It's a stationary step that spins round and round and round a fleckle.

Presenter7:49

There's a reverse fleckle.

Len Goodman7:50

There is a reverse flexibility. Yeah, you can go to the left and you can go to the right.

Presenter7:54

Good.

Len Goodman7:54

So yeah, you're an expert yourself actually.

Presenter7:57

I won't.

Presenter7:57

Watch every week.

Len Goodman7:58

Yeah.

Presenter7:58

Let's have some more music then, what's next?

Len Goodman8:00

Oh, come on I was in a bookshop, and a man sidled up to me.

Len Goodman8:06

He said, Well, I'm one of the producers of the Andrew Marr Show. And he said, Would you be interested in coming on the show? I said, Well, I said, I'm not political. He said, No, you just review the newspapers. I said, Yeah, I'd love to.

Len Goodman8:18

So

Len Goodman8:19

One Sunday morning up I went and I kept hearing this fantastic music, which happened to be a quick step as well. And they kept practising it and playing it over. And it was a fantastic and it's I thought he must be Italian, but he's not, he's a Scottish guy, Paolo Nuttini, pencil full of lead. It's just fabulous.

Speaker 28:41

Oh, I got a sheet for my bed and a pillow for my head I got a pencil full of lead and some water for my throat I got buttons for my coat and sails on my boat So much more than I needed before I got money and a meter and a turbine eater oh and I was getting on the road So they get sweeter I got legs on my tails and a head for a hair Polling up pan and some shoes on my feet I got a shelf full of books and post on my teeth

Len Goodman8:55

Rather legs on the jails and a head for a hip

Speaker 29:02

Two pairs of socks and a door with a lock with a foot in my belly Analysis for Matellia And nothing's gonna bring me down

Len Goodman9:09

It's great, you know. I've got money for the meter and a three-bar heater. What else did you want in Knife? It's just lovely.

Presenter9:14

Uh

Presenter9:15

Yeah, that was Paolo Nottini with Pencil Full of Lead. Um uh the optimism in that song, you know, a a family, a guy who doesn't have much but he's making the best of it. Does that sort of resonate with your early years?

Len Goodman9:23

Does that

Len Goodman9:24

I think that's most families of my generation. They had to get on with it. Didn't have a lot of money, but but enjoyed themselves. Saturday night round the old piano, having a sing song and a crate of beers. Yeah.

Presenter9:35

It was that's how it was. What what are your memories of the early years? It was Bethnal Green, wasn't it?

Len Goodman9:41

Well, it was Bethnal Green. We actually moved when I was quite young out into Kent, when I was four or five. However, my mum used to take me all the time back up to Bethnal Green and I used to play with all the kids in in my street and so on. So

Presenter9:45

Right.

Len Goodman9:55

My early memories are of being round Bethnal Green in our little house there, my grandparents' house. Saturday nights my nan and and one of my uncles were great on the piano, just self-taught and having a sing song, and my mum used to teach me a little s You can roll a silver dollar down upon the ground and I'd be sitting there on the f by the fireplace skipping my little bit. It was just wonderful memories.

Presenter10:19

And you did you like a bit of an audience? Were you a bit of a show off?

Len Goodman10:22

Always. And yeah, I was quite gregarious and outgoing and uh

Presenter10:26

Your grandfather's business then was a fruit and veg business? Yes, right.

Len Goodman10:27

And you're grand.

Len Goodman10:29

And then once I became about eleven he he'd got a shop. Before that he had a stall, and on a Saturday and and during the school holidays I'd be in charge of the salad stall, and that would be my job. And I think that helped me as well to get to chat with people and and not to be shy and and outgoing.

Presenter10:48

And what about was your grandfather a bit of a I mean, the image we have maybe a cliched one of of people who run those businesses, certainly back in the day, is that, you know, bit of bit of a dellboy, a bit of a mover and shaker.

Len Goodman10:56

I remember one of the earliest memories I have of him. In his shop he used to have two they call them bins where they used to put the groceries and stuff. And he had a big hundredweight sack of potatoes and he chucked one half into this one bin and the other half into the other bin. And on one he put a penny a pound, and on the other it said selected penny halfpenny.

Len Goodman11:20

And I said, but granddad there this time.

Len Goodman11:22

He said, Yeah, but you watch the one and a half penny halfpenny ones will always go first. And and that's you know, they so they were like that.

Presenter11:29

A lesson in life.

Len Goodman11:30

Yeah.

Presenter11:30

Yeah. Yeah. And what about the B-troop boiler? Did you have a bath in the B-troop boiler? Yeah.

Len Goodman11:34

My nan's job was to get the raw beetroots, and they had this like cauldron that had like six gas rings things that went underneath, and they used to boil that up, and then the beetroots would go in. Well, when it was tepid, my nan used to just put me in it and scrub me up, and of course, I was always filthy, dirty. We used to go and play on the debris from the ward, and of course, out I'd come and it would be covered in scum, and then in would go the beetroots. Is that true? Yeah, truly. And everybody used to say how delicious they were. I think it was probably.

Presenter12:01

Is that true? Yeah, truly.

Presenter12:07

That special stock. Yeah. That special little lens stock. Delicious.

Len Goodman12:07

That's

Len Goodman12:08

Yeah. That special little lens stalk. That's right. And quite often I'd have a P in it as well, of course, as you do.

Presenter12:14

I wasn't going to ask that, but I heard you mention it.

Len Goodman12:15

Well not.

Presenter12:16

Let's have some music, Lane Goodman, what's next?

Len Goodman12:19

Well one of my earliest memories is my dad taking me into the front room where he had a most marvellous record player, Grundig. One side there was a cocktail cabinet.

Speaker 312:27

Oh.

Len Goodman12:28

Oh, it was very posh. And the other side was the record player. And he used to play all his favourites from the war and before the war, and he used to love the Mills brothers. Uh they're only backing his guitar and everything else you hear is just them making the noise with their mouths. And it's just happy, happy music. And I think if I'm stuck on a desert island I'm gonna get glum and I wanna be cheered up. And I think this is the sort of music that just cheers you.

Speaker 212:56

Hold a tiger, hold that tiger, hold a tiger, hold that tiger, hold that tiger, hold a tiger, hold a tiger.

Speaker 213:08

Where's that time? Where's that time?

Speaker 213:12

That die

Speaker 213:13

Where's that time?

Speaker 213:15

Is that type?

Speaker 213:16

Where's that tiger? There's that tiger.

Speaker 313:19

Burdy, daddy, to daddy to do it, the burden to daddy, daddy to do it, let it up, the tittle that though. Bet it up, bitter that, that it

Presenter13:27

That was the Mills Brothers and Tiger Rag. So you were an only child, Lynn, because I was. Dostapon, yes.

Len Goodman13:32

Yes, I was. Doted upon, yes. Doted, totally doted upon, spoilt rotten. Were you? Oh, yeah, lovely, wonderful.

Presenter13:39

Isn't it true you did your mum buy you a very fancy car when you were sick?

Len Goodman13:42

When I was seventeen you know, we'd made it by then. We had seven greengrocers' shops and this and that and plenty of money coming in. When I was seventeen, my mum was worried that I'd uh learn to drive and have a crash, so she said, I'm not having that. You're going to have a nice, sturdy vehicle. So for my seventeenth birthday,

Len Goodman14:01

Brand new Jaguar.

Speaker 314:03

Yeah.

Len Goodman14:03

Yeah, Mark Two. Thing like morse drives, you know, proper thing. And then I had a little accident, not a big one, in a car park.

Len Goodman14:11

A car backed into me and uh just knocked it slightly, and I got home. I said,'Mum, look, a car backed'. She said,'You're not driving that. It might have knocked the wheels out of line or something'. Bought me another one.

Len Goodman14:22

Yeah, look at me. See? Like you can't believe it, but I've turned out absolutely fantastic.

Presenter14:28

Clearly. And i before you were seventeen, your parents had divorced when you were how old?

Len Goodman14:29

And they

Len Goodman14:32

When I was about ten, my parents divorced. They split split up, but in in not in a horrible way. They split up.

Len Goodman14:41

And I still saw my dad and I lived with my mum and and it was fine.

Presenter14:46

Nonetheless quite unusual in that that would have been the early fifties, was it?

Len Goodman14:49

Yeah, oh it was a big shock horror.

Presenter14:51

Yeah.

Len Goodman14:51

It was oh yeah, it was yeah, middle fifties, I guess, something like that.

Presenter14:54

Yeah.

Len Goodman14:55

But, d'ye know, I'll tell you a little anecdote regarding all this. My dad found a l my stepmother, who's still alive, ninety five now, hopefully listening in, but my mum was on her own, and I went to Danson Park swimming pool and cut my leg, quite badly, on a stone step.

Len Goodman15:11

I went to the first aid man. So he went on the tannoy in this open air pool and said anyone leaving could take a little boy to the hospital. Well, a man came along and said, I'm just leaving, I'll take him. And he took me to the hospital. And he said, Where do you live, son? and I told him, He said, I'll run you home. So he took me back to my house, and by then it was swelling up and throbbing, and I was crying a bit. So he picked me up and carried me to the front door of my house, knocked on the door. My mum said, Hullo He said, Your son's injured himself so she said, Come in.

Len Goodman15:44

And six months later she married him.

Presenter15:46

Really?

Len Goodman15:46

Yeah, that's how they met. How exciting.

Presenter15:49

That

Len Goodman15:49

Uh

Presenter15:50

Uh

Len Goodman15:50

BEP

Presenter15:50

And it is true. It is a good story. And you you're saying your stepmom i is uh still alive. Is she a Strictly fan?

Len Goodman15:55

I tell you what, if I'm nasty to anyone, she has a go at me like you can't believe. I was nasty once to someone, I forget who.

Len Goodman16:03

She voted for them ten times. To make up for it, yeah.

Presenter16:07

Let's have some more music then, Len. We're on disc number four. What are we gonna hear?

Len Goodman16:11

Well, you know, I'm going to practice my my dancing while I'm on this island. I've got to. So I picked a cha cha cha, and and when I danced and competed, there were two main orchestras. For Borham it was Victor Silvester, and for Latin American it was Edmundo Ross. And you know, I read very recently he's still alive and he lives in Spain and he w was a hundred years old. So dear old Edmundo Ross, it's a great cha cha cha, and I can see myself on the beach, holding a couple of cocoa nuts, dancing the cha-cha.

Presenter17:13

That was Edmundo Ross and his orchestra and the Moulin Rouge. You said during that, Len Goodman, there were parts of that that were so bad they were good.

Len Goodman17:19

That's right. But I g I just like it as a chatter cha and I can see myself on that beach. Probably I'll take all my clothes off, so I'll be naked actually. Because in case I get rescued, I want to have some clothes to put on, so I'll probably stay naked. And I can see myself doing the chatter cha there, my old gentleman flapping down between my knees and me

Len Goodman17:39

Giving it a bit of cha-cha-chahip action. It'll have be fabulous.

Presenter17:43

And you talked about I'm going to concentrate on the fact that you said you want to look neat in your clothes. That's the bit that I'm going to take from what you've just said to me. Um, you are a very dapper dresser.

Len Goodman17:51

Well, I've I try to be, you know. I come from an era we were Mods. In the sixties we were Mods, and the Rockers were always scruffy and hairy and riding motor bikes and stuff. And we were the Mods. We were dressed up in our tonic suits and our little uh Bumfreezer jackets and stuff. And what was it?

Presenter18:08

And what was it was it all'cause you as you say, your your family had a bit of cash, was it all made to measure?

Len Goodman18:12

Well yeah, you had to because i what you could get off the peg wasn't proper stuff, you know. And we even used to get our shoes made. I used to go to Terry's in Homerton. Yeah.

Presenter18:21

And what would the shoes have looked like? What was the shoes?

Len Goodman18:22

Well, they weren't those long pointy th things that you know that we used to wear things called short points, which was very sharp but pointed. Crippled your feet, but you look good. I remember getting a pair green.

Presenter18:29

Right.

Len Goodman18:33

Green ones with the lace that went up the side. Oh, come on And out I'd go. Yeah, and I had an overcoat that just reached my ankles. Full length overcoat with a two inch vent.

Presenter18:45

Oh no.

Len Goodman18:45

Oh, and I'd walk out. What was the clock?

Presenter18:47

Have not overcome.

Len Goodman18:48

Oh, well, that would have been a herring bone.

Presenter18:50

Am I I read, I think, this must surely be your very own phrase, that you are a bit of a crumpeteer.

Len Goodman18:54

Crumpeteer Yeah, I used to oh yeah, well of course we all were when we were young, weren't we, after the crumpet? Of course, yeah. Yes, I did a lot of crumpeteering, and what a wonderful business I was in, you know, full of beautiful dancing girls. And off I went, crumpeteering to my heart's delight. And I was very lucky because I fancied the girl that used to do serve the teas at this dance studio, whose parents owned the dance school, and I used to chad her up, and eventually I got her to come out from behind the tea bar and have a bit of a dance with me. And her father saw us dancing, and I'd only been dancing a few months, and he said, You know, I think you've got a talent for ballroom dancing. I'd be happy to give you private lessons with my daughter, and no charge, and we'll see how you get on.

Presenter19:39

And had you at that stage been bitten by the bug? I mean, we know fr from earlier on that it was because you had this metatarsal break that you needed to exercise your foot, but once you actually started dancing, did you love it?

Len Goodman19:44

Yeah.

Len Goodman19:48

Uh

Presenter19:48

I loved it.

Len Goodman19:48

I just loved it, and I think partly I loved it because I I was naturally good at it. So and you know, I've been I've been in a job that that has just been a pleasure to do anyway, so I've been so lucky.

Presenter20:01

Some more music, then, then, Goodman. What's next?

Len Goodman20:04

You know, one of the iconic numbers from strictly come dancing was Chris Hollins, who who wasn't particularly the best dancer. However, he did a Chelston that just knocked everyone's socks off.

Presenter20:17

I mean, I still for anybody who saw that, it was a piece of perfect performance, it wasn't it.

Len Goodman20:21

It was everything went. The music was great. Ola Jordan, his partner, did great choreography and the track was so uplifting and fabulous, and it is just perfect. Fat Sam's Grand Slam. Great.

Speaker 220:37

Anybody who misses anybody will soon walk through that door.

Speaker 220:42

Fat Sam Sprand Swam, speak easy Always able to find you the table, there's room for just one more Akbat Sam Sprand Swam Speakeasy Once you get it, feel the good chin

Speaker 221:00

That saves these humble, but it's your heart sweet home.

Presenter21:05

That was Fat Sam's Grand Slam from the original soundtrack of Bugsy Malone. Um I wonder, Len Goodman, the world of the professional dancer is it opaque to most of us? You know, we love whether it's uh ballet or ballroom or whatever else. You know, we love to see the end result, but the actual grind that goes on behind the scenes must be pretty relentless.

Len Goodman21:22

You know, that's why one of the reasons I can't be over nasty to our celebrities on the show, because the work they do and the pressure they're put under, the further it goes, the tougher it gets, more frustration steps in. It is a real tough test. And the nerves they must have, you know, it's live, one false move and anything can happen. You've got to admire them. They are brilliant.

Presenter21:48

And also the glitz and the glamour and the huge B B C production that is behind the show is very different from well, what you earned your daily bread at for many, many years, which is running a dance school, which can't really be very glamorous at all.

Len Goodman21:59

Well, no, it isn't. But do you know, Chuck Berry once was asked what do you think of Elvis Presley? and this was later on in Presley's career, and he said he got what he wanted, but he lost what he had. And I feel that a little bit. I miss what I had. I miss going up the dance school and just beginners coming in, people, d'ye know, mums and dads and young couples who walk in and waltz out.

Presenter22:22

And now you still have your dance coach.

Len Goodman22:23

I'll have my dance call, but Sue, my partner Sue and my son James basically uh run that now.

Presenter22:29

Right.

Len Goodman22:29

I miss it.

Presenter22:30

And you your your professional triumphs, when you were uh dancing competitively, the the the young girl who came out from behind making the teas in the dance school, that was

Len Goodman22:36

That was on skill.

Len Goodman22:38

Cherry, my partner, yeah. And we're we're and, you know, for how long I danced for, we did great. We won one of the championships at Blackpool. We danced in a thing called the Jewel of the Giants at the Albert Hall. I won that umpteen times. I did really well.

Presenter22:38

Cherry, my part

Presenter22:51

And you and Cherry were dancing together, you were also married. Does that create a message?

Len Goodman22:54

We got married eventually. Well, you know, the thing is that when you dance professionally, you you're together all the time and you you you have no life outside it. And so eventually you end up getting married. But of course lots of couples stay together for the rest of their lives. But, you know, in my case with Cherry, after we stopped dancing, I looked across the table at her and she looked at me and she thought, I don't know what I'm doing with you, we've got nothing in common So, you know, we went our separate ways and we still ate in touch. She had children and I've had children and uh everything's tickedy boo.

Presenter22:55

Yeah.

Presenter23:25

Given that that was your experience, what do you think as you sit there and watch I mean, uh, if the tabloid uh papers are to be believed, there are certainly uh plenty of romances that come along as a result of strictly come dancing, you know, with each other eight hours a day training, you begin to feel that you're in sync with the partner you're dancing with. Do you look at those romances and think

Len Goodman23:39

Yeah.

Presenter23:42

Oh dear.

Len Goodman23:43

Well, they yeah, they're not really built on anything concrete, are they? They're built on ballroom dancing, which is

Len Goodman23:49

Not the best foundation.

Presenter23:51

Do you ever offer a word of advice backstage and say watch yourself?

Len Goodman23:54

No, I don't. Um no. People only want the advice they want to hear, so there's no point in trying to tell you know.

Presenter23:54

Uh

Len Goodman24:01

More music, Len. What's next? Well, you know, like most people of my generation, I went through the fifties loving rock and roll, Buddy Holly, and Elvis and so on. And then gradually your taste changes a little bit. And I I got into jazz. And one of my favourites was Dave Brubeck and Take Five. I loved it and I couldn't work out why I loved it. And of course eventually I realized that it's in five four timing, which is a timing that as dancers you never really use. You only use two, four, or four, four. And so or in the walls three, four, but you never have five four rhythm. And I used to try and dance to this and I couldn't work out why I couldn't dance to it. So when I'm on my island I'm going to choreogress something to five four timing. What a hero.

Presenter25:43

That was Dave Brubeck and Take Five. So, uh, Len Goodman, I'm I'm thinking about the life you were living before all the fame. You mentioned your son James, who helps run the dancing school uh that you started. You had James i in a relationship. But how long were you together with Leslie, his mum?

Len Goodman25:53

Devil.

Len Goodman25:58

Oh, ten ten or twelve years. Nice. Yeah. A nice long time we were together. But again, we grew apart. It it is in the common denominator's probably me, so probably more my fault than her fault, you know.

Presenter26:10

And and so when the relationship broke up, she went to live on was it the Isle of Wight? She came from the Isle of Wight, so she moved

Len Goodman26:13

She came from the Isle of Wight, so she moved back to the Isle of Wight where where she'd grown up and her parents were, and James went to the Isle of Wight as well. So, um, you know, I s I saw as much of him as I could. I used to visit again, you know, although we'd split up, it it wasn't a terrible sort of bitter parting. So I used to go down and see James and so on, and he'd come up and we'd go off on little trips during his school holidays.

Presenter26:38

You've written very honestly that there was a time in your life you were approaching fifty, you were working hard, you were no longer living with your son, so you'd see him when you could.

Presenter26:47

You know, life seemed even for the very chipper Len Goodman, life seemed a little bit glum.

Len Goodman26:51

Yeah, I went through a really glam glam period really, you know, because uh I basically was getting a little bit fed up with teaching because of the repetition and I was single and uh you know And was money tight?

Len Goodman27:05

Well, money was tight a bit, yeah, you know. Dance schools go through sort of troughs, you know, w when Saturday night fever came along everybody wanted to do that and all the dance schools buzzed and then that died off a bit. And during the eighties there wasn't a lot going on for us, so dance schools were, you know, not exactly buzzing. But you get over these things. Listen, if you don't have any bad times you can't appreciate the good ones.

Presenter27:28

In your autobiography you had written, it was very interesting to read it actually, about your the the time that your parents' marriage broke down, your father lost four stone in Wales.

Len Goodman27:36

Yes, he did. Extremely. He was as tall as me, six foot or so. I think it was all the stress of not knowing whether he should uh split up with my mum and and the uncertainty of going off on his own. But anyway, he once he got cracking on his own ag you know, he soon bucked up again.

Presenter27:55

And what was your mum and dad's attitude to your relationship breaking down, especially when you had a son? It's different, isn't it, when there's when there's a child in your mind?

Len Goodman28:00

Well, my mum was really devastated and she thought I was terrible to allow my son to, you know, go off with his mum and I, you know, made me not feel good. You do have a certain guilt feeling about these things and so I've sort of tried to make up for it all in in later life, you know, as much as I can.

Presenter28:18

And how's it going? How's it going?

Len Goodman28:18

Good! Me and old James. Yay. I'll tell you what he is. Fantastic.

Len Goodman28:24

He's turned out.

Len Goodman28:25

Great, honestly, he's lovely.

Presenter28:27

And Kat you're not a grandfather yet. Do you have a fairy?

Len Goodman28:29

No, I keep telling him to get cracking. He's got a very nice girlfriend, Sophy, and I'm hoping, you know, things have blossomed there. I'd love to be a grandad. The wonderful thing about being a granddad, you can spoil your grandchildren as much as you want. You can spoil them rotten and then you say, Well, no, you get on with it, you know, you sort them out.

Presenter28:47

Let's have some more music, Len. We are on uh disc seven seven.

Len Goodman28:50

Seven. Well, you know, ancestors of mine years ago were weavers, and I can see myself weaving some sort of a hammock out of reeds and rushes and stuff, and laying there I'll be quite a good uh fisherman, I'm sure, and I'd I'd have a stick with a point and probably spear a lobster, and I'd light a little fire, and that'll be cooking away, and I'll be laying in my hammock, and the smell of the lobster'd be waffling into my nostrils. And as I lay there, I want to be remember all my mates and all the places I've lived, and so on. And there's nothing better than In My Life by the Beetles, so I'd like that, please.

Speaker 229:29

There are places I remember

Len Goodman29:29

He says I

Speaker 229:33

All my life, though some have changed.

Speaker 229:38

Forever, not for better

Speaker 229:42

Some have gone and some remain.

Presenter29:46

Yeah.

Speaker 229:47

All these places have their moments.

Presenter29:48

Yeah.

Len Goodman29:49

It's half the moment.

Speaker 229:52

With lovers and friends, I still can

Presenter29:56

That was the Beatles and in my life. Uh Len Goodman, I wonder how you feel, especially given that you're somebody who was sort of physically has always been very capable, you know, you're a keen golfer and you've danced for all these years. How do you feel about the subject of aging? I mean, you said you were in your early sixties, I shouldn't have been. No, no, I'm sixty six.

Len Goodman30:10

No, I'm not. I'm sixty-seven, I'm getting on a bit now.

Presenter30:12

Uh

Len Goodman30:13

Not.

Len Goodman30:13

To be honest, I don't feel any different. You know, I wake up in the morning, I'll get out of bed, the first thing I think is.

Len Goodman30:19

Nothing hurts. Fabulous. And off up I get. Just feel great. Lucky you and lucky. Yeah, I am lucky. Mentally I feel about eleven.

Presenter30:23

Yeah.

Len Goodman30:26

Lovely.

Presenter30:27

I'm wondering what you thought when your your fellow judge Arlene Phillips was unceremoniously dumped.

Len Goodman30:33

I was very disappointed.

Len Goodman30:36

To be honest with you, I've never got to the and this honestly, I'm telling you everything the truth. I don't mind if anything happens if it's deserved, but uh you know, I d I didn't see how that was she was deserving of being given the elbow.

Presenter30:48

I mean, one can only imagine it was to do with the fact that her age didn't fit. I mean, there you were as a judge in your mid sixties and there she was as a woman who was around about the same age, and one of you was booted off and the other one wasn't.

Len Goodman30:58

Yeah.

Len Goodman31:00

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't know why why they decided to do that. I don't know whether it was because on the other side was X Factor and Cheryl Cole and they thought maybe we should get a bit of glamour on. I honestly don't know. But I must say, you know, these things happen and eventually probably c the B B C are going to say to oh Len Goodbye, you know, Lynn, I think you're in the over the hill club now. I think it's time you hung up your shoes. And it will happen probably. And if it does, it does.

Presenter31:27

This great big door of fame that has opened for you. I mean, you're in one of the biggest hit shows in the Western world and you are a man who's sixty seven. Do you ever look back and think I mean, you have such a facility for television, you can think on your feet, you've got charisma, you know, you've you've got it all going on.

Len Goodman31:42

Okay.

Presenter31:44

That's all you're getting. Um, don't you think, you know, if this had happened to me when I was thirty, I could have had a great big sparkling forty year career on the televis?

Len Goodman31:51

Thanks, Bob.

Len Goodman31:52

If it had happened when I was thirty, I'd have been one of these people that would be seen rolling out of nightclubs drunk.

Len Goodman32:00

with a couple of dolly birds on my arms and all. It would have been awful, really. You know, I got the pilot on my sixtieth birthday, and I think it was the perfect age because I was sensible by then. My feet were planted firmly on the ground. Listen, things happen when they should happen, and I think that happened just right.

Presenter32:19

What do you think about your parents not living to see your success?

Len Goodman32:21

That's my biggest, biggest regret is that my mum and dad would have been so proud and so happy to see their little Lenny boy on T V. They would have loved it. But they saw me dance, they used to come to the Albert Hall and see me and this, that, and the other. Kirstie, listen, I am one of the luckiest people on this earth.

Presenter32:40

So life is g I mean, you've you've conjured up how you imagine the island is gonna be. You're gonna gonna be wood roasting your own lobster, you're gonna weave yourself up.

Len Goodman32:46

You can

Len Goodman32:48

Yeah, weakness over

Presenter32:49

I mean, really, how do you think you'd handle it? Life on your own?

Len Goodman32:52

Tellable.

Len Goodman32:54

I can't do anything. I am pathetic. I don't know how I'm going to survive, to be honest with you, but I'm going to do my best and I'll practice my cha cha cha. But I don't know. I'm not going to be good.

Presenter33:05

Just as well you've got the money.

Len Goodman33:05

That's why I've got all those chirpy tunes to keep me happy.

Presenter33:07

I'm sick.

Presenter33:09

Tell me about the last chirpy tune, then. Uh

Len Goodman33:11

Yeah.

Len Goodman33:12

I thought ever I am on the island.

Len Goodman33:14

And I'm the king of this island. I am the master of all I survey. And I'm going to have Harry Belafonte, who I used to love.

Len Goodman33:23

Island in the Sun

Len Goodman33:25

Come on.

Speaker 233:28

O island in the sun

Speaker 233:32

Kneel to me by my father's hand

Speaker 233:37

All my days I will sing in praise Of your forest waters, your shining sand.

Speaker 233:46

Oh my god.

Presenter33:49

That was Harry Belafonte and Island in the Sun. You are shameless, Len Goodman, with Island in the Sun.

Len Goodman33:54

Well there it's a lovely rumbo. I've got that my other excuse for it. It is a lovely rumbo so I can work on my uh rhythm.

Presenter34:01

I'm going to give you some books now. I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Len Goodman34:06

Shakespeare's hard for me.

Presenter34:07

Yeah.

Len Goodman34:07

Yeah. You know, it's very, very difficult, but I I'm imagining it uh probably be nice to light a fire with.

Presenter34:13

The choices you can also take another book. What other book will you take?

Len Goodman34:13

The choice is you.

Len Goodman34:16

Well, you know, I've I've given that a lot of thought. I I'm gonna go for poetry because I read a lot of poetry. Not too highbrow.

Len Goodman34:26

and I could memorize them and start to learn passages from them which would exercise my brain, and at the same time I'd be reading all these lovely Browning and Tennyson and so on, and it'd be be lovely. So I'm going to have a poetry book.

Presenter34:37

Wright to an anthology of British poetry.

Len Goodman34:39

Perfect.

Presenter34:40

It's yours, and a luxury too.

Len Goodman34:42

Well, you know, my only hobby in life is golf, so I think what I'll have is a set of golf clubs and a huge supply of balls, and I would just uh practise my bunker shots on the beach and chipping around and yeah, set of golf clubs.

Presenter34:58

Those are yours too. And if you had to choose just one of these eight tracks.

Len Goodman35:02

Well, this is a tricky one. You know, the main thing is I want to keep myself chirpy, so I'm torn between two, but I'm going to go for pencil full of lead, Paolo Nuttini.

Presenter35:12

Good choice, that's yours. Len Goodman, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs?

Len Goodman35:16

It's been a joy.

Presenter35:58

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website, bbc. co dot uk slash radio four.