Debbie Harry

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the singer Debbie Harry.

Presenter0:37

As a child she used to dream that her mother was Madeline Munro, and once said her early goals were to be noticed and to be famous. Well, she did that. Her group Blondie sold more than thirty million albums, and had hit after hit. Heart of Glass, Call Me, Denis Denis all powered up the charts. They had seven number ones here and became the most successful American band ever in the UK.

Presenter1:02

And her look well, that was ultra cool. A striking beauty, with platinum hair and a bit of a sneer. She used to hang out with the Ramones, talking heads, David Bowie and Iggy Pop she was painted by Andy Warhill, and fetted the world over.

Presenter1:17

I think I really enjoyed the darker side of things, she says. I wasn't content with being a white middle class girl, growing up and doing what was expected of her. So, Debbie Harry, you wanted to confound expectations, or you just wanted to explore a different sort of life? Which was it?

Debbie Harry1:36

I th I think I knew that there was more to life than what I grew up with.

Debbie Harry1:42

and had a natural inclination for

Debbie Harry1:46

Extremes, you know. Um my dad used to always say to me, You're up here or you're down there, you know, you must level out. I don't think that I had uh

Debbie Harry1:57

you know, extreme mood swings or or that kind of thing. But I I have a lot of sensitivity and I appreciate it.

Debbie Harry2:05

Um going there.

Presenter2:07

And so here you are still performing. I'm I'm wondering you know, sometimes when people have uh explored the highs and the lows, there reaches a point where they think, No, that's they want to close the door on that life, you know, that ups and downs and on stage and the applause and then alone in the dressing room. You still enjoy exploring it, do you?

Debbie Harry2:25

Well, I think that

Debbie Harry2:26

You know, after all this time I enjoy it more than ever and uh I appreciate it probably more.

Presenter2:34

Right, K.

Debbie Harry2:34

And go

Presenter2:35

Can you tell me why? Why do you think you can?

Debbie Harry2:36

Because I I feel that I'm better at it.

Debbie Harry2:39

I guess I I just get more out of it, you know, and I I keep learning things. I mean, what more could you add?

Presenter2:44

Ask for in a job. I have to tell you it is quite a strange sensation to be sitting opposite an icon.

Presenter2:50

That's an odd thing, because there you were through all of the years that I was growing up. I think I probably wasted a good ten years wanting to be Debbie Harry.

Presenter2:59

And here is Debbie Harry, and you look I mean, you are an astonishingly beautiful woman. I mean, you're you know, you you're beautifully dressed today. Can you describe to it, given that we don't have pictures to go with this, what you're wearing today?

Debbie Harry3:10

Oh, I'm wearing a pair of uh strange tights that are striped black and white stripes on the thighs and then black solid black on the calves and a sheer black top with little uh embroidered flowers and then an overblouse that has sort of uh paisley

Debbie Harry3:32

Things swimming on it.

Presenter3:34

What about as you um you know, unbelievably are in your mid sixties now. Do you have any problem with aging? You know, when you're when you're a real beauty and you age, it can throw up conflicts for women, right?

Debbie Harry3:43

Sure. It's it's hard. I mean,'cause um regardless of, you know, what I say about trying to be better at what I do, I I re I rely on looks a lot, you know, and you know, I mean, women

Debbie Harry3:56

Women's calling cards, unfortunately, it are based on their looks many, many times. As far as aging goes, it's you know, it's rough. I try my best now, you know. I I really am healthy and I exercise like a fiend and you know, do all that stuff that, you know, recovered drug addicts do. And but I guess I appreciate life more, you know, I have a better perspective and

Debbie Harry4:21

I'm glad that I've had all the sort of radical experiences in my life, you know, that that suits me.

Presenter4:27

Okay, do you still go?

Debbie Harry4:27

Oops.

Presenter4:28

Shouts from truck drivers as they go past.

Presenter4:32

Hopefully. I bet you do. Okay, it's time for some news.

Debbie Harry4:34

A lot of times I have to stop them in the road, you know.

Presenter4:38

It's time for some music now then, Debbie Harry. What are we going to start with today? What's the first disc we're going to hear?

Debbie Harry4:43

We're going to hear um Heavy Cross by the Gossip. Tell me why you've chosen this.

Debbie Harry4:49

I love Beth's voice. In a record it's different because they've done, you know, overdubs and more tracks. But live they opened for us at a festival. Just the two two musicians and Beth, you know, it it was fantastic, fantastic.

Speaker 35:05

It's a cruel, cruel world to fleece on your own A heavy crust to carry along The lights are on, but everyone's gone and it's true

Speaker 35:21

It's a funny way to make ends meet When the lights are out on every street It feels alright, but never complete Without you

Presenter5:35

That was the gossip and heavy cross. Uh thinking there about a woman like uh Beth Ditto and before her, Courtney Love and Madonna, the reason that those people existed was of course because you had existed as the first woman to front a band very differently, I think. You weren't that you know, you weren't the simpering singer in the silk dress and the high heels being playing nice. Was that a very deliberate uh persona?

Debbie Harry6:01

In a in a way, I think it was a sign of the times. I ha I don't really claim that, you know, I invented it. It it just sort of evolved. We had burned our bras and, you know.

Debbie Harry6:13

It went on from there.

Debbie Harry6:15

I I felt

Debbie Harry6:17

that, you know, women

Debbie Harry6:19

should not portray themselves as victims. We were counterculture of the of the period. I guess it was just, you know, the right time, the right place, the right thing, you know.

Presenter6:31

That very striking album cover of of Parallel Lines, I think it sold it sell about ten million copies Parallel Lines, and it's used standing in front of the band and the band notably.

Presenter6:41

Is smiling in a sort of sweet, cute photocol way, and there are you not smiling.

Debbie Harry6:48

Well, I'll tell you what happened with that. We had a manager at the time who

Debbie Harry6:55

we were sort of at war with and I really

Debbie Harry6:58

you know, had a lot of uh problems with

Debbie Harry7:03

on a personal level. And he chose that picture.

Debbie Harry7:07

Right. Because he was pissed off at me. Because there were a lot of other shots where I was smiling, but he chose that one.

Presenter7:15

And when you first um made it in the UK, I I remember watching you on Top of the Pops, as a lot of people uh will. I think it was um

Presenter7:23

The end of the seventies seventy nine. And did you feel when you were on stage, I mean, you always seemed

Presenter7:28

Incredibly confident on stage. Were you always a very confident open person off stage as well?

Debbie Harry7:35

I think I had the the confidence of

Debbie Harry7:38

Doing what I wanted to do. I don't know if I was completely confident about being a performer. Sometimes facing an audience is not easy.

Debbie Harry7:48

And I think that we were sort of thrown into a lot of situations that maybe we weren't especially ready for. But are you ever ready? I mean

Presenter7:59

Let's have some music then. Next Ebby Harry, your second disc today. Tell us what it is and why you've chosen it.

Debbie Harry8:04

Uh well, I I've chosen Nina Simone uh doing Strange Fruit.

Debbie Harry8:09

you know, she came through the sixties and

Debbie Harry8:12

Lived through the fifties and all that. So she was a she was a woman who

Debbie Harry8:17

really knew about that and and uh musically the why I chose it was because I really love her left hand.

Debbie Harry8:25

And the way she plays. And I I've always felt that, you know, the way that she plays piano and the way that she sings are really

Debbie Harry8:34

I I don't want to use the word, but I have to integrate it.

Speaker 28:39

Seven trees

Speaker 28:46

Barren Strange fruit

Speaker 28:53

Blood on the leaves

Speaker 29:00

And blood at the roots

Presenter9:04

That was Nina Simone and Strange Fruit. So let's go back then, Debbie Harry. You were born in nineteen forty five in Florida, but you were adopted when you were just a few months old and uh brought up in New Jersey. What what are your memories of those early years?

Debbie Harry9:20

Oh, they were they were great, you know, um

Debbie Harry9:24

I was always allowed to roam around and

Debbie Harry9:28

But I had a lot of freedom. It was good.

Presenter9:29

And did you have brothers and sisters?

Debbie Harry9:31

Uh, I did. After a while I had a a a baby sister when I was uh about six, six and a half.

Presenter9:37

Oh, okay, so you had quite a long time on your own, with your parents.

Debbie Harry9:39

Yeah. Yeah, it's got good and spoiled and it's nice.

Presenter9:42

How did you feel when she came along then?

Debbie Harry9:45

Uh, I guess I was a little bit worried, you know, but then I became fascinated with her and, you know, she was such a a funny little thing.

Presenter9:53

And what were your parents like? Were they strict or?

Debbie Harry9:57

Well, I think they felt that since I was somebody else, you know, I wasn't theirs and also the first child that, you know, they had to be really good parents. Okay. You know how that is. I think by the time my sister came along there they were a little bit more relaxed.

Presenter10:12

I read somewhere that you said and you were t you were being asked about being adopted and you said that, you know, it wasn't until later that you realized I think your words were, that I had been left with a core of fear and vulnerability that I couldn't identify. Yeah. Right. So you think that came from

Debbie Harry10:23

But I couldn't I

Debbie Harry10:25

Yeah.

Presenter10:28

Uh

Debbie Harry10:28

I think that comes from separation from with my mother and I I was with my mother for a while, my natural mother, and I think that that was just

Presenter10:28

But

Presenter10:30

Right.

Debbie Harry10:38

one of those things that's an animal thing.

Presenter10:40

Great.

Presenter10:41

Yeah. And so did you ever try to trace your own mother and sort of work that out and talk to her about the whys?

Debbie Harry10:47

I did look her up and um I think she was quite old at the time, so uh

Debbie Harry10:53

I think that she had made a resolution within herself that, you know, let the past lie. I don't think she really wanted to

Debbie Harry11:01

And at at that point I I really didn't need that information. I was already successful with Blondie. It wasn't like I was searching or desperate or anything like that.

Presenter11:13

And so your parents who brought you up, what did they what did they want for you? Did you have to get good marks in school? Did you have to be a neat girl, a well-behaved girl?

Debbie Harry11:22

Of course.

Presenter11:23

Uh

Debbie Harry11:23

Yeah.

Presenter11:23

Yeah.

Debbie Harry11:23

Uh

Presenter11:23

All of the above.

Debbie Harry11:23

All of the above.

Presenter11:25

Pierre

Debbie Harry11:25

I don't think that they really, uh, knew Jack about, you know, the music business. Um

Debbie Harry11:32

because of that, you know, they were sort of worried that, you know, I was going to feel, you know, disillusioned and crushed and everything and, you know, quite possibly I would have. But my mother, I think, always envisioned me having a life very similar to hers, you know, marriage and and family.

Presenter11:48

And they were they were quite a religious family, were they? I mean, there was church going and all of that.

Debbie Harry11:53

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter11:54

Did you sing in the choir?

Debbie Harry11:55

I did.

Presenter11:56

Bye.

Presenter11:57

Course. Were you picked out for solos? Were you told? Sometimes, yeah. So early on, I mean, you have it's easy amid all the kind of image and the hits to forget about your voice. Yes, to forget that you have this voice, but you

Debbie Harry12:00

Sometimes, yeah.

Presenter12:11

You had a good voice from early on, did you?

Debbie Harry12:13

Yes, I I did have uh uh the ability to carry a tune and and hear, you know, I had good ears.

Presenter12:20

And who are you listening to then in the fifties and sixties, early sixties?

Debbie Harry12:23

Oh.

Debbie Harry12:24

I guess everything that was on the radio, mostly radio. I had my head practically in the speaker. The speaker was about this big.

Debbie Harry12:33

That's right in there listening to this music.

Presenter12:36

Were you a beautiful little girl, I imagine you must have been.

Debbie Harry12:39

I think I went through uh good stages and bad stages, hideous stages actually.

Presenter12:45

What were the most hideous? Give us some comfort. Ever have a perm?

Debbie Harry12:48

Uh

Debbie Harry12:50

I did a home perm that really went bad, really went bad. I had a fro long before it was the right thing to do.

Presenter13:00

That is some comfort, actually, somehow. The idea of you with a really bad param makes us all feel a bit better. Okay, we're on disc number three then. Tell us what we're going to hear.

Debbie Harry13:02

Yeah.

Debbie Harry13:05

But

Debbie Harry13:08

Oh, we're going to hear um Merrymaking at my place, uh, Calvin Harris. It just moves along, it's a great feeling, dancing or driving or or whatever. It's nice.

Speaker 313:28

Oh.

Speaker 313:30

Yeah.

Speaker 313:32

Truck taken

Speaker 313:34

My place, baby, help my place every making Come into my house, you're invited into my house Entering the back of my house, welcoming you into my house

Speaker 313:48

Come into my house.

Presenter13:49

That was Calvin Harris and Merry Making. Definitely, he's whopping up a good time there. You like a good time, do you, Debbie Harry? You still like a good time.

Debbie Harry13:58

Yeah, sure, we we all want to go to Calvin's and dance around and

Debbie Harry14:02

Have a good time.

Presenter14:03

Yeah, he's I mean, you know, the lyrics are pretty obvious. They're merry-making drug taking, you know, happy times at my place. Are you still is that still part of your life?

Debbie Harry14:11

Am I still imbibing? No. No.

Presenter14:13

Never?

Debbie Harry14:14

Yeah.

Debbie Harry14:15

No, no, no. I've run the gamut.

Debbie Harry14:18

Uh

Presenter14:18

Right.

Debbie Harry14:18

So I've done my thing with that.

Presenter14:20

Okay.

Debbie Harry14:21

Yeah.

Presenter14:21

You enjoyed it, I presume. I mean that's the thing that people never really talk about once they stop taking drugs, is actually they had a lot of happy times.

Debbie Harry14:28

Well, yeah, I think so. I mean, it it's carefree or care less or whatever.

Debbie Harry14:33

Um

Debbie Harry14:34

For me it turned into not so much fun.

Debbie Harry14:37

You know, which I think f m you know, for most people it it does.

Debbie Harry14:41

It just wears thin.

Presenter14:43

Yeah. I want to talk to you about New York then. Of course, you being brought up, as we know, in New Jersey. New York only a matter of a few miles away, really, but it must have seemed.

Presenter14:53

you know, like almost like the promised land. When did you start going to New York as a as a young girl?

Debbie Harry14:57

very young, you know, four or five years old.

Debbie Harry15:01

My grandmother and my mother would take me in, um

Debbie Harry15:04

into the city to either go shopping or to go to uh the Christmas show or the Easter show, just to sort of be a tourist.

Presenter15:12

Right. And when you were a teenager, did were you allowed to go by yourself into the city?

Debbie Harry15:18

I wasn't really allowed to, but I did.

Presenter15:22

Conjure up a day for me, how would you spend the afternoon?

Debbie Harry15:25

Well, I just walk around, you know, just get the vibe, just check out different neighborhoods. The village was uh very interesting to me, with the coffee shops and the beats and everything. You know, I knew that there were artists there. I knew that that's really what I wanted to be.

Presenter15:42

And did you start to rebel as a teenager at home? Did you start to not get on with your parents?

Debbie Harry15:48

I think I was a typical teenager in in many respects, you know, wanting to uh fly, you know, spread my wings.

Presenter15:57

So what did you do? How would you apart from going into the city when you weren't supposed to, what kind of things would you get out of the city?

Debbie Harry15:57

So what did

Debbie Harry16:02

Mostly it was about style for me. I I don't think that I was ever truly, totally, obnoxiously disobedient or disrespectful to my parents. You know, I liked them as people, but I certainly went, you know, for my own look.

Debbie Harry16:17

And what would it have been? Describe it.

Debbie Harry16:25

sheaths and, you know, big hair and wh white lipstick, you know.

Debbie Harry16:30

as extreme and the opposite as I could possibly get.

Presenter16:35

Let's have some more music, then, Debbie Harry. What are we going to hear next?

Debbie Harry16:39

We're going to hear White Light, White Heat by Lou Reed and the I believe it's the Velvet Underground.

Presenter16:45

And why have you chosen this one?

Debbie Harry16:48

I don't know. I love Lerade and uh love the Velvet Underground and

Debbie Harry16:52

I think um it was one of the first bands that I saw in New York.

Debbie Harry16:59

I was completely flabbergasted and and knocked out by it and

Debbie Harry17:04

Actually, Nico was singing with them that night and Andy Warhol had designed the uh the stage set and the and the colors and I I think he was responsible for the lights too and it was just an incredible show.

Debbie Harry17:17

Just brings back good memories.

Speaker 317:24

Hey, I don't know I'm gonna make it go back

Speaker 317:28

Oh, I heated sick numbers down to my toes Who have a sip while I have it to snow?

Speaker 317:36

I like all this on my brain Oh I like this phone, I need the same Oh I need a different reason to my toes Oh I like that sit down

Presenter17:50

That was the Velvet Underground in white light, white heat. So tell me, Debbie Harry, when did you feel that your life went from being lived in a kind of suburban New Jersey black and white to being lived in New York Technicolor?

Debbie Harry18:04

Um hm. I got a job in the first head shop on the Lower East Side. What w what was that for?

Debbie Harry18:12

Well, what was that? That was for, you know, people that smoked pot. Oh, right.

Presenter18:16

If they ask

Debbie Harry18:19

I I don't think that I was actually doing that at that time, but day glow, you know, posters and T shirts and, you know, like the usual crap that people sell now.

Presenter18:28

So that was sort of was that when you started to think, yeah, it feels like the shoes fit. This is kind of I like the the counterculture, I like the the darker side of life?

Debbie Harry18:39

I don't know if I I've really considered it the darker side of life. I felt like it was part of what was going on. It was pretty fun, you know. There was bands everywhere and, you know, colorful clothing and it just suited me. And why did you fit right in?

Presenter18:56

Yeah, I bet. And why did you. Why was it music rather than acting? Did you ever have a go at acting? Did you have any.

Debbie Harry19:01

Not seriously, no. But I um I fell into music. That was it. It sort of stayed on my mind that I really wanted to pursue this.

Presenter19:11

Tell me about the time that I saw you say in a documentary that you you saw Chris Stein from the audience. Is that right? You were up on stage.

Debbie Harry19:18

Yeah, I was on stage doing a little trio thing called the Stilettos and uh Chris was in the audience and um I felt like I could really deliver.

Presenter19:29

Did you talk to him that night? Were you just talking?

Debbie Harry19:31

Yes, I did. I met him afterwards and uh you know, he was very sweet, nice guy.

Presenter19:36

Now I never had the pleasure of going to the club C. Bee Geb's so I need you to describe it to me.

Presenter19:43

What was it like? What would I have found?

Debbie Harry19:46

There's a biker bar to start with.

Presenter19:48

Yeah.

Debbie Harry19:48

And it it was it was pretty funky.

Debbie Harry19:51

You could go there and a and act up a little bit and not be thrown out, you know.

Debbie Harry19:56

You'd have to act up a lot.

Debbie Harry19:58

Get thrown out.

Presenter20:00

And so it was full of, as I understand it, you know, Talking Heads was there, and the Ramones, those kind of was it it was it all bands watching other bands, really.

Debbie Harry20:07

Yeah.

Presenter20:08

Right.

Debbie Harry20:09

Good.

Presenter20:09

That makes quite a tough audience, I'm thinking, then, to play to other bands.

Debbie Harry20:13

Perhaps. Um I think at that particular time there was no money involved. Nobody was nobody was interested in in us.

Debbie Harry20:23

It was a

Debbie Harry20:25

A clubhouse, really?

Debbie Harry20:27

Very uh

Debbie Harry20:29

insulated and isolated and Chris and I both have sort of said, you know, reflecting on that, that it was kind of ideal, you know, to get your ship together and

Debbie Harry20:41

You know, to have that have that period of of not being exposed.

Presenter20:46

Was there ever a time when you thought, you know, here I am, I'm thirty now and I really need to shake this up and kind of get a proper job?

Debbie Harry20:53

And I was an idiot and I had no concept of uh

Debbie Harry20:57

I mean, I I felt oh, I I wish that I was younger, but

Debbie Harry21:01

I don't know. I was one of those idiots who thought they were gonna live forever.

Presenter21:05

Let's have some music now then, Debbie Harry. What are we going to hear next?

Debbie Harry21:08

Oh, we're going to hear uh When I Grow Up by Fever Rae.

Presenter21:12

Why have you chosen this particularly?

Debbie Harry21:15

I don't know, I think they're a good songwriter, nice uh nice lyrical ideas.

Speaker 321:24

I want to be a forester. Run through the boss on high hills. That's what I'll do.

Speaker 321:35

Throwing out a boomerack, waiting for it to come back to me.

Presenter21:49

So that was Fever Ray and When I Grow Up. So Debbie Harry, Blondie uh explodes and people start to really buy your records. And and you pulled off that pretty rare trick of being at once entirely commercially successful and at the same time being credible and cool.

Presenter22:08

Pretty clever stuff, really.

Debbie Harry22:11

I I think people were more broad minded in the

Debbie Harry22:15

I mean, you know, we wanted to reach people. I wanted to entertain people.

Debbie Harry22:22

Yeah. I mean, I always said that, you know, I wanted to be a a movie star basically. You know, it seemed like

Debbie Harry22:30

Well, gee, that must be great, you know, to be a star, you know.

Presenter22:33

And what about your look then? I mean David LaChapelle, the photographer, called you the the very the definition of cool. Oh really? Yeah he did. Oh thanks David.

Debbie Harry22:42

Uh

Presenter22:42

Yeah, he should know.

Debbie Harry22:42

Yeah.

Debbie Harry22:43

Clearly, I mean, I had we had called it blondie. I had to have the blonde hair. And, um,

Debbie Harry22:49

You know, I I worked uh in a salon for a while, so I mean, bleach was easily available.

Presenter22:55

Did you bleach your own hair? Is it true that that

Debbie Harry22:57

Oh, yeah, then later on I completely burnt it off my head, but you know, I'm just kidding. I mean, I I think

Presenter22:57

Yeah.

Debbie Harry23:04

I've enjoyed, you know, a certain freedom, as I said, you know, I I grew up in a different time and there was, you know, more freedom for making bad mistakes, perhaps.

Presenter23:14

Well yeah, that's very interesting that you had this time for everything to kind of percolate through, that you were performing to people, as you say, you weren't talent spotted, there was nobody saying.

Debbie Harry23:19

Thank you, people.

Speaker 323:20

Uh

Presenter23:23

You know, I'll get you an endorsement, or you know, you were just doing your own.

Debbie Harry23:27

Sing.

Presenter23:27

Sing.

Debbie Harry23:28

I like audiences. I remember one especially really, really fun one was in New Orleans. It was at this club and I ha I had on this uh dress that was made of razor blades, double edged.

Presenter23:42

You really do like to live on the edge, don't you? Yeah.

Debbie Harry23:43

Well, you know, it was beautiful. I looked like a snake skin, you know, and it it moved and it was really pretty. I was up on stage and doing this great set and everybody was out of their minds and, you know, celebrating and

Debbie Harry23:58

The hands were reaching out of the audience and running down my razor blade dress, and I was sort of thinking, Oh my god, oh my god.

Debbie Harry24:05

And then the lights went out and the sound went off, and the electricity went off, but the hands were still caressing my dress and going up and down my legs, and it was just this great moment, you know. And then the lights and the music came back on, and I went back into the song, and it was just a really exciting moment, very visual.

Presenter24:27

I can see it now, almost.

Debbie Harry24:28

Yeah.

Presenter24:30

Let's have some more music then, Debbie Harry. Tell us what we're going to hear next.

Debbie Harry24:33

I think we're going to hear something from uh Eight and a Half, a film, by Federico Fellini. The music is uh from Nino Rota, who I've always liked. A lot of these songs are very visual to me, and uh I like that.

Speaker 324:51

Uh

Presenter25:46

La Passerella by Nino Rotta from the Federico Fellini film Eight and a Half. So, Debbie Harry, I find it I think I said in the introduction that you've sold more than thirty million albums. You know, that's a lot of music to shift. Was there a point though that you were told that you didn't have the amount in the bank that one might imagine a group that has sold thirty million albums would have?

Debbie Harry26:06

Uh no, I don't think so. I think that we've always felt that we didn't get compensated according to how many things that we sold.

Presenter26:15

Right.

Debbie Harry26:16

We had a very bad experience with a business manager who

Debbie Harry26:20

Unfortunately, you know, convinced us that instead of paying taxes, taking money and investing it in something.

Debbie Harry26:28

That you know was a really the right thing to do, and so we followed his advice, and it was totally the wrong thing to do.

Presenter26:34

Right.

Debbie Harry26:35

So it just put us in in tax hell for a long time.

Presenter26:38

Okay, and

Debbie Harry26:38

So that was really the the bad part.

Presenter26:40

I see. So this was like a a tax a a legitimate tax avoidance scheme that turned out to be a very bad investment, really.

Debbie Harry26:46

Yeah.

Presenter26:47

Right.

Debbie Harry26:47

Absolutely.

Presenter26:48

And so

Presenter26:49

When did the walls come crashing down? When did you think, well, you know, we gotta I mean, I also read that you s had to sell a beautiful uptown townhouse and all the things that

Debbie Harry26:57

Oh yeah, that was it. I think um

Debbie Harry27:00

I guess it was in about nineteen uh ooh, eighty three or eighty four, something like that.

Presenter27:04

Yeah.

Debbie Harry27:06

Eighty two is when the band broke up. I don't know, it's in that i you know, early eighties period.

Debbie Harry27:13

God, everything just collapsed.

Debbie Harry27:15

It just collapsed. We had no management, we had no label, Chris got very sick.

Debbie Harry27:21

It just everything collapsed.

Presenter27:23

Right. And you know, people said, Well, Debbie Harry gave up her career to look after Christine.

Debbie Harry27:28

I know, it's so awful, isn't it?

Presenter27:29

Well it doesn't sound awful, it sounds quite selfless, is it?

Debbie Harry27:29

But it doesn't

Debbie Harry27:31

I know, but it's so that's what I mean. I I'm not I'm not really totally like that. I really felt like Chris and I were like a team.

Debbie Harry27:41

And I really had no inclination to go on. I really didn't.

Presenter27:46

Right.

Debbie Harry27:47

I just didn't envision myself as a solo artist. I never really wanted to be a solo artist, actually. I always wanted to be.

Debbie Harry27:56

In a band. I I always did, yeah.

Presenter27:58

And obviously, um when you find out that your partner is so desperately ill, that is a time of

Presenter28:05

Of intense emotion. Did you thought you were going to lose him at one point? Did you you thought that he wouldn't survive this illness?

Debbie Harry28:09

Well, yeah, that's what I was told. I was told that it was uh terminal and there was no cure for it, so that that was kind of awful.

Debbie Harry28:16

Um, but that was bad information.

Presenter28:18

Right.

Debbie Harry28:19

And Yeah.

Presenter28:19

How long did it take Christine to recover?

Debbie Harry28:22

Quite a while.

Debbie Harry28:24

Quite a while, yeah.

Debbie Harry28:26

I think that his his brain was always working.

Debbie Harry28:31

I mean, we still had you know, we still had some laughs and stuff like that. It wasn't completely horrible.

Debbie Harry28:36

And me it was just very, very hard physically.

Presenter28:39

Let's have some more music, Debbie Harry, then. We're on uh disc number seven. What are we gonna hear?

Debbie Harry28:44

We're going to hear Talk to Me from Peaches, whom I also uh think is a terrific entertainer, very talented person and um greatly overlooked.

Speaker 328:57

Why don't you talk to me?

Speaker 329:01

Why don't you talk to me?

Speaker 329:05

I'm standing here alone. I know you'll never come. Why don't you talk to me?

Speaker 329:14

Don't you talk to me?

Speaker 329:17

Why don't you talk to me?

Speaker 329:22

I'm saying

Presenter29:27

It's difficult looking at you today um to think that you went through what you yourself dubbed the ice cream years.

Debbie Harry29:35

Oh huh

Presenter29:36

Yeah.

Presenter29:37

Yeah,'cause you yeah,'cause you look

Debbie Harry29:38

Yeah.

Presenter29:40

Beyond fabulous today.

Debbie Harry29:41

Oh, thanks so much.

Presenter29:42

And there's a time when you were you were snapped in one of those supermarket tabloid things. Do I think you were probably doing your shopping?

Debbie Harry29:48

Yeah.

Presenter29:49

And you didn't look the way a superstar is supposed to look, even when they're doing their shopping.

Debbie Harry29:53

Yeah, no, that was uh that was when Chris was in hospital and, um, you know, I was out buying some ice cream.

Debbie Harry30:01

It was easy for him to swallow, and uh, of course very easy for me to swallow.

Debbie Harry30:08

Uh

Presenter30:08

I mean y you said, um, you know, as we know, he survived his illness. Your relationship didn't survive and you said of that time, I'm quoting here, I was tired and disillusioned, burnt out, everything just seemed to crack and fall apart. You must be a very, very resilient woman, because here you sit today not only looking fabulous, but more importantly, you know, still performing and entirely coherent and through all the

Presenter30:33

The drug stuff that went on, d you're very resilient.

Debbie Harry30:37

I guess so. Yeah.

Debbie Harry30:39

Who knew?

Presenter30:40

You didn't know, did you? You didn't know you were capable of that.

Debbie Harry30:44

I guess I'd sort of know, you know. I mean, I I don't know.

Presenter30:47

Is it right that you are godmother now to Christine's is it to both his children?

Debbie Harry30:51

Yeah. Yeah, right. Two girls.

Presenter30:54

So there is a kind of

Presenter30:56

In a way, a sort of happy ending to all of those of us who are Blondie fans who kind of

Debbie Harry31:00

Oh, sure. Yes. Yeah. I think, you know, surviving i is a happy ending and I mean, what an unpredictable you know, way things happen. I mean it's fantastic.

Debbie Harry31:13

I don't know what to say. I seem to have a lot of godchildren. People think that I'm a good godmother, but I'm totally not religious.

Presenter31:22

Yeah, well, you're supposed to, I think you kind of oversee their moral development. Ah.

Debbie Harry31:26

Well, there, they're screwed.

Debbie Harry31:30

I wouldn't I wouldn't never kill anybody, except maybe in self defense, but

Presenter31:30

I would

Presenter31:34

Aside from that, anything's possible.

Presenter31:37

Okay.

Presenter31:38

You've said that you've got lots of godchildren. Do you are you sorry you don't have children of your own?

Debbie Harry31:43

Sometimes, sometimes, um, I guess it never struck me as being, um, s part of survival.

Debbie Harry31:51

And I think uh for many people it is. It's a me oh it's a way of surviving.

Presenter31:57

I'm going to cast you away then, Debbie Harry, as you know you're you're going to this island, all on your all on your own, with of course your music.

Debbie Harry32:01

Oh my god.

Debbie Harry32:03

I demand to know if I'm going to have solar powered batteries for my equipment.

Presenter32:07

No, you're not I'm afraid it's a little wind up gramophone we give you that

Debbie Harry32:10

Oh, it's a wind up. Well then, that works.

Presenter32:12

Um how are you going to to cope on your own?

Presenter32:15

Do you think?

Debbie Harry32:16

Gee, I don't know.

Debbie Harry32:17

I can't imagine being in in a situation where there was really no one to talk to except myself. Oh, my God.

Presenter32:26

Let's have some comfort then with the final piece of music today, Debbie Harry. What's your eighth disc today?

Debbie Harry32:31

Uh

Debbie Harry32:32

This is um

Debbie Harry32:33

The music by Mahler from Death in Venice, which I find so moving and so beautiful, just incredible. Just incredible.

Presenter33:37

That was the opening of the fourth movement of Mahler's Symphony No. Five, performed by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Sir Simon Rattle. So, Debbie, I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. You get three books, though. You you can take one of your own. What are you going to take?

Debbie Harry33:52

The Bible

Presenter33:53

It's up to you. You can do what you want without it.

Debbie Harry33:55

Oh, I see.

Presenter33:56

Okay.

Debbie Harry33:57

Well, there are a lot of stories in there.

Debbie Harry33:59

Hmm.

Debbie Harry34:00

I can have another book for me.

Presenter34:02

Yeah.

Debbie Harry34:03

That's that's horrible. I don't know if I can choose. I don't know if I can choose.

Presenter34:07

This is your only opportunity. You're gonna really be annoyed if you don't bother to take a third one.

Debbie Harry34:11

Uh

Presenter34:12

Dostoevsky or something. One book by Dostoevsky. It is awful.

Debbie Harry34:15

Get a lot of

Debbie Harry34:17

Yeah.

Presenter34:17

Yeah.

Presenter34:20

You're gonna have to give us one single book, Debbie Harry. I hate being this uh cruel to you.

Debbie Harry34:25

Well, worn pieces fat, isn't it?

Presenter34:27

It is, it is certainly a big book.

Debbie Harry34:30

Let's take it out.

Presenter34:31

Okay, War and Peace is yours, along with the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Presenter34:35

And what a happy time you'll have. And a luxury too. You can have something just to make life a little more easy, a bit more bearable, on this island. What would your luxury be?

Debbie Harry34:47

Well, it did say pen and paper, but maybe it should be

Debbie Harry34:51

Colours

Debbie Harry34:53

and and paper.

Presenter34:54

Okay, so like paints or gouache or something to make it right. Yeah, yeah, that would be fun. Okay, I'll give you an endless supply of paper and paints to paint pictures.

Debbie Harry34:56

Yeah.

Debbie Harry35:01

Okay.

Presenter35:02

And if you had to choose just one of these eight tracks, if the waves were to threaten to wash away the discs, which one it gets worse, which one would you run to save?

Presenter35:14

You're glad you came.

Debbie Harry35:15

Oh no

Debbie Harry35:19

Hmm.

Debbie Harry35:21

I mean, do I I get the full length version of these things or do I I only get the two minute version I'll have to take one of the longer pieces like uh either from Nina Rota or Mahler.

Presenter35:23

Nor do I

Speaker 335:24

Yeah.

Speaker 335:25

No, you do. You get it.

Debbie Harry35:34

Depends on whether I want to be sad or happy.

Debbie Harry35:39

I think uh maybe I would take the Mahler'cause I can I can sing all the rest.

Presenter35:46

Lovely. It's yours then. Debbie Harry, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island risks.

Debbie Harry35:51

Uh

Presenter35:51

Uh

Debbie Harry35:51

Yeah.

Presenter35:51

Well

Debbie Harry35:52

Yeah.

Presenter36:35

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc. co dot uk slash radio four.