Martin Sheen

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is Martin Sheen. He has jokingly referred to himself as the acting President of the United States, as in recent years he has won great acclaim and a Golden Globe for playing the leader of the free world in T V's hugely successful political drama The West Wing. He's no slouch either when it comes to the big screen. Apocalypse Now, Gandhi, Badlands, and The Departed are among the hundred or so movies he's appeared in. Work for him is often a family affair. In Wall Street he acted alongside his son, Charlie Sheen, and in his latest movie, The Way, another of his children, Emilio Esteves, is his director and co-star. Offset, he is a committed social activist and campaigner. He's been arrested around seventy times. He says Film is an illusion, fame is ephemeral, faith and family are what endure. Martin Sheen, that quote interested me particularly, I think, because most film actors think that they are leaving some sort of enduring legacy through their movies.

Martin Sheen1:35

You don't think so? No, I don't think so. No, I I was once asked what would I um like to be remembered for? And I said for about five minutes.

Presenter1:45

And what about being remembered for being the President? I mean, that was seven years. It was one of those programmes, the West Wing, that seared itself into people's consciousness. Do people still sort of greet you with a kind of slightly want to maybe salute the Commander in Chief or shake his hand or something?

Speaker 11:58

Chief

Presenter2:00

Yeah.

Martin Sheen2:00

Well, we had an awful lot of interest in the show and a lot of fans over the years, and we've all remained friends and adored each other. But we were the kind of the parallel White House at the time because when we began the show in 1999, the Democrats were in the White House with Mr. Clinton, and then the Bush administration came in in 2001.

Presenter2:23

And am I right in thinking that Bill Clinton, as you say, he was holding the presidency when you first started shooting this? Did he give you access to the White House to

Martin Sheen2:27

Blow me started, yeah.

Martin Sheen2:29

He did, yeah. No, he loved the show. He was oh, God, yeah, he loved it. And he would ask for uh videos and sometimes he would run them on Air Force One when he was traveling. He was a huge fan of the show.

Presenter2:32

Did he?

Presenter2:41

Did he ever give you any tips? Did he ever say you

Martin Sheen2:43

He came to visit us on the set after he left the Oval Office, and he began to tell me that, well, you don't want that thing over here. Maybe you should move that on this side. This chair over here looks better in the corner. This right, well, you can leave it the way it is, fine, you know. He was great. He was so funny. And there was something about him that was just so.

Martin Sheen3:03

Vulnerable, so human. And he what was fascinating is he he wanted to listen to you, you know. When you get around very famous people, particularly at on that level, you want to talk fast and you don't want to bother them, you know, because they're busy and they got a lot of things on their mind and a big agenda. But he just he would sit there and talk to you, you know.

Presenter3:23

Fascinating. So much to talk about. But first of all, Martin Sheen, tell me about your first piece of music today. What are we going to hear?

Martin Sheen3:29

You're going to hear Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues.

Presenter3:32

And why have you chosen this?

Martin Sheen3:33

Well, I love the song at any rate. But in nineteen eighty nine I directed a film, the only film I've ever directed, called Cadence. Mind you, it was a very low budget, independent film. Here in England I think it was called Stockade, incidentally.

Martin Sheen3:48

And uh it starred my son uh Charlie, and I edited it literally in our back uh-room garage.

Presenter3:57

Yeah.

Martin Sheen3:57

And we were creating a montage. And I looked at the montage, and it was just terrific. And we were trying all kinds of music. And the one song that fit the montage the best was Subterranean Homesick Blues. And now we had to get permission for the song. And I went over to see my neighbor who had written the song and recorded it in 1964. I invited him over a few days later, and he came in the backyard, and he watched this sequence. And he said, Yeah, I think that would be great. And so that's how it came about.

Speaker 14:34

John is in the basement mixing up the medicine I'm on the pavement thinking about the government The man in a trench coat latch out laid off Says he's got a bad cough wants to get it paid off Look out, kid, it's something you did God knows when but you're doing it again You better duck down the alleyway Looking for a new friend The man in a coonskin cap and a pig pen wants $11 bills You only got 10

Presenter5:01

That was Bob Dylan, your neighbour, Martin. She and Subterranean Homesick Blues. And what about working with your family? Because a lot of us enjoy one of the aspects we enjoy most about our work is that it's time to get away from the family. It's our thing. We're not surrounded by our kids and our wives and all that sort of stuff. I mean, it's fun.

Speaker 15:05

Yeah.

Speaker 35:05

Terranian Homesick Glue.

Speaker 15:06

Uh

Speaker 15:10

Uh

Speaker 35:10

Enjoyment.

Martin Sheen5:13

Yeah. Thing

Speaker 35:13

Uh

Speaker 15:15

I

Martin Sheen5:18

That's the most fun. Is it? Oh God, yes. You know, uh this most recent film, The Way, which is about the uh pilgrimage of Santiago de Compostela, was written uh by my son Emilio. He directed it and he uh starred with it in me. It's a it's a father-son story. So it's just it does not get any better than this.

Speaker 15:33

The fuck

Presenter5:38

No, on any level. I'm wondering, when you were working on it, being directed by your son, is that an easy process? Is it difficult? For me, it is.

Martin Sheen5:44

For me, it is. Yeah, I adore him. You know, I was once interviewed. A reporter said, Well, tell us about your son, Emilio. I said, Oh, Emilio.

Presenter5:47

Yeah.

Martin Sheen5:54

I have known him all of my life. And the guy said, Now, you mean you've known him all of his life? I said, No, no. When he arrived, I was 21, and I thought, Oh, he's the guy I've been waiting for. Oh, I know who he is. All right, fine. I just thought of him as a companion, as a big brother, really. And that's the way our relationship has been. For all our

Presenter6:14

I need to talk just a little bit more about the West Wing. It's not the only thing we're going to talk about. But of course, you have these legions of fans round the world who all feel rather sad that that President is not in the Oval Office anymore.

Martin Sheen6:19

But of course you have

Martin Sheen6:25

Oh, we have a far better one in reality now. Thank God.

Presenter6:27

Well

Presenter6:28

You yourself, I mean, you you are uh a social justice campaigner. Am I right? You've been arrested more than seventy times okay.

Martin Sheen6:34

72 times a counting? No, not quite. I think it's 67. I usually keep up with my so I have a little I have a little work to do.

Presenter6:37

I usually keep up with my age.

Presenter6:41

But you're somebody who obviously is interested in the way that the world turns and the way that it functions. And given that political office has been held by people like Arnold Schwarzenegger and so on, it must have people must have tried to get you involved in politics with a Big P said stand for a problem.

Martin Sheen6:56

The Democratic Party at one point, when I was still doing the show, made an inquiry if I would be interested in running for the Senate from my home state. I grew up in Ohio. And, you know, I'm deeply flattered, but I'm not qualified. And I had to make that very clear. I personally could never stand for public office because then I would be responsible to a constituency and not my conscience. You know, there's a big difference between celebrity and credibility.

Speaker 37:07

I

Presenter7:21

Okay.

Presenter7:26

But then you do stand on platforms, you do make speeches, you do write articles in the LA Times espousing your own point of view and you you obviously feel that it's worthwhile for people to listen to it. So there must be a part of you that thinks that you are worth listening to. You're not just an individual voter casting their you know casting their vote.

Speaker 17:36

The

Martin Sheen7:36

There must be a

Martin Sheen7:41

Well, but I don't I really don't anticipate ever influencing anyone to do anything, frankly. All of my social justice activism has been for myself. I do it for myself. And you do it because you cannot not do it and be yourself.

Speaker 17:53

And

Martin Sheen7:58

Let's have some more music then, Martin Sheen. What are we gonna hear now? You're gonna hear How Can I Keep From Singing?

Martin Sheen8:04

It is my favorite hymn. It has been a great source of inspiration for me in particularly very dark times. It is a reaffirmation of the cherished belief I have in faith. This hymn speaks to that in a deeply personal way. It's like in the worst of times, there is still so much to give thanks and praise for. Now, no matter what the circumstances, I say thanks, it's been wonderful. I couldn't have asked for anything more.

Speaker 38:38

My life goes on in endless

Speaker 38:46

Above our mentation

Speaker 38:54

It a real to foreaff.

Speaker 39:01

The heart hellside.

Speaker 39:05

Creation.

Presenter9:09

That was Enya and How Can I Keep from Singing? So I introduced you as Martin Sheen, but that's not the name on your passport, is it? What's on your passport, Martin Sheen?

Martin Sheen9:17

Ramon Gerard Esteves.

Presenter9:19

Which sort of says it all, because you you come from Spanish-Irish stock, your parents were immigrants.

Martin Sheen9:23

My dad was born on July 2nd, 1898.

Martin Sheen9:29

Which is the very day that the United States declared war on Spain.

Presenter9:34

Right. Unfortunate timing to say the least.

Martin Sheen9:35

Unfortunate timing to say the least. Very unfortunate. He left with his brother Alfonso for the New World. He was 16 years old. And he met my mother, who had come from Ireland. They were married in 1927 in Ohio. And they had 12 pregnancies. Ten survived, nine boys, one girl. And I was the seventh son.

Speaker 39:42

Good.

Presenter9:57

And so, as you say, there were a big family. What was the household like? I'm imagining. Apart from being jammed. Very noisy. Yeah. Was it like.

Martin Sheen10:00

There was a phrase there was a phrase that uh said a lot about our house uh growing up, is uh first up, best dressed.

Presenter10:04

Yeah.

Martin Sheen10:12

There was a clothes bin there.

Presenter10:15

And and meal times? I mean, well, you know, I'm imagining money was relatively tight.

Martin Sheen10:20

Extremely tight. And yet there wasn't this great concern about it, you know. I mean, we never felt um the want for anything. We always were housed, you know, and there was always enough food.

Presenter10:21

Right.

Presenter10:31

Right. What did your parents want for you? What were their ambitions for all these children?

Martin Sheen10:35

My dad well, my mother died when I was young. I I was almost eleven when she died in 1951. So my dad basically raised us, you know. But all my brothers in front of me had become caddies at a very young age at this private golf course in Dayton. And when I was nine years old, I was expected to join the Caddy Brigade, and I did.

Presenter10:57

And it made quite an impression on you.

Martin Sheen10:59

Yes, very much so, yeah. I fell in love with golf. I learned how to play. I was pretty good as a teenager. I I I play at public courses because uh I c I I'm n I'm just not comfortable belonging to anything private. I keep the sticks in the car, you know, and you just have to be patient.

Presenter11:17

And you won't be a member of a private club, why?

Presenter11:20

Because it's

Martin Sheen11:22

Something exclusive.

Martin Sheen11:24

It's that sense of privilege, you know. Okay, entitlement, privilege. Entitlement and privilege that I resented deeply. Well, I remember when there's a particular golf course I pass almost every day in Los Angeles.

Presenter11:25

Okay, entitlement.

Speaker 311:27

Brilliant

Martin Sheen11:34

I read the brochure and how much it cost to join and the dues every What did it what did it cost these men? It was about two hundred and seventy thousand dollars to join and it was about twenty five thousand dollars a year from membership, you know.

Speaker 111:39

What did it cost, Evement?

Speaker 111:43

Yeah.

Martin Sheen11:48

And I thought, my God, I mean, all that money just to play golf.

Presenter11:53

But well then, what's your relationship with with the industry you're in? I mean, do you feel unc do you do you give a proportion of your income away? Do you feel uncomfortable with the amount that you earn in the movies to?

Martin Sheen11:53

Yeah.

Martin Sheen12:02

I don't earn that much anymore. I mean, when I was younger, yeah, I did very well. But no, I I don't make that many films anymore and the ones that I do are not you know, they're not box office hits, you know.

Presenter12:13

Uh

Martin Sheen12:13

Uh

Presenter12:13

You're not a

Martin Sheen12:13

B

Presenter12:14

Easy with your wealth.

Martin Sheen12:15

I don't really have that much. Well, frankly, I well yeah, we did give most of it away, you know. Uh yeah, honestly, we did, you know, with family, with friends, trying to help people's dreams come true in the family, you know? Sure, why not? What's the point in having it, you know? Let's have some music.

Presenter12:15

I don't really have

Presenter12:32

Then, what are we going to hear now? We are on our third disc of the day. What is it?

Martin Sheen12:32

Well what are we gonna hear now

Martin Sheen12:37

Any Mozart for me is.

Martin Sheen12:39

It has a speed and a rhythm of its own. If I'm driving and m I listen to a classical station most of the time in Los Angeles, and I do a lot of driving, when Mozart comes on, I'll pass my destination rather than stop and shut it off. I cannot bear to stop Mozart.

Presenter14:00

Daniel Baremboim playing part of the second movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. Twenty one in C major with the English Chamber Orchestra. So, Martin Sheen, were you five or six when you realized that you wanted to be an actor? Can that be true? I mean, I read it, I'm not sure I believe it.

Martin Sheen14:15

Yeah, you know, I started going to the movies. I guess I was around five or six, and I knew that this is what I was going to do. And I knew that if I didn't do it, even as a child I knew this, I would never be happy.

Presenter14:27

And does it make you happy? Do you struggle with that?

Martin Sheen14:28

Yes, absolutely. Still it still does. And I'm seventy now and it's worse now than it ever was.

Presenter14:33

And what did your father say when you told him you wanted to be?

Martin Sheen14:37

No. He had put a few dollars aside each week uh for me to go to college and uh I was determined to go to New York and give the theater a try. And so it became a, you know, a very difficult and a bitter dispute between us, you know.

Presenter14:54

And given that your mother had had passed away by that time, as you said w you were eleven. I read um

Presenter15:01

That you said once, it was a very moving description. You said, The wind just left our sails as a family. Yes, true, yeah. Yeah. So, what absence? Yeah. What do you remember of that? What actually happened?

Martin Sheen15:05

As a family

Martin Sheen15:08

What's your absence, yeah?

Presenter15:11

She has cerebral head.

Martin Sheen15:12

Image

Presenter15:13

So a very sudden death.

Martin Sheen15:13

So a very sudden death. Very sudden. She was a very lively lady, you know. She loved to sing and chat.

Presenter15:15

The rest.

Martin Sheen15:20

She was a deeply uh spiritual person and there was a great deal of joy and and energy in her, you know, and then suddenly it was gone.

Presenter15:30

And uh what about your father then? I mean, he obviously he she was uh she was the kind of keystone of the family.

Martin Sheen15:35

They adored each other and they really depended on each other. And suddenly the prop came out from the tent and the tent collapsed and he was broken. And he went into a deep depression and he didn't share any of it. You almost didn't want to bother him. He just went inside, deep inside himself. And it was years before he came out. And did he see?

Presenter15:42

Yeah.

Speaker 115:42

Uh

Presenter15:56

Right.

Presenter16:00

And did he see did he live to see your success? Did he live to see you make a living as an actor and be on stage?

Martin Sheen16:04

Did he be on stage? Oh yeah, he did, yeah. He came to New York on his way to Spain. He was going to go home and live out the remaining years back home. Again, I was on Broadway in a play called The Subject Was Roses, and it was an enormous hit. And it was a play about family, and particularly about fathers and sons. And he came to see it, and I played that night for him, and I never played better in my life before or since.

Presenter16:30

Um when he came backstage at the end of the performance

Martin Sheen16:33

He didn't come back. He didn't come back. No, no, I waited for him. He didn't come back. He didn't come back. I didn't know what happened. I was waiting for him, you know. I called home, and they had just arrived. They just took a cab and went home. He never, ever said a word about the performance, the play, anything. And that was in the summer of 1964. In the spring of 1969, I was working in Italy. I had Emilio and Ramon with me. And I had a week off, and we went to Spain, found the house, and visited the family. And it's the house that he grew up in. I didn't realize it till the next morning, but Emilio and I and Ramon slept in the bed he was born in. And when we got up in the morning,

Presenter16:33

He didn't come back. He didn't come back. He didn't come back.

Speaker 117:13

Right.

Martin Sheen17:21

There was a poster on the wall of the play that I had done. Unbeknownst to me, he'd taken the poster home and displayed it. In the last scene, if anyone knows that play, the son tells the father he loves him.

Speaker 117:25

Yeah.

Presenter17:36

Time for some Vivaldi, I think. That's what we're going to hear next. Tell me why you've chosen the Vivaldi.

Martin Sheen17:38

So we're gonna

Martin Sheen17:40

Well, it's I never listened to classical music when I was a boy. My wife Janet, who was a musician in high school, introduced me to classical music, and this was one of her favorites, so it always reminded me of her.

Presenter18:43

Pinkhaz Zuckerman playing part of Spring from the Four Seasons by Vivaldi with the English Chamber Orchestra. So let's cut Martin Sheen movie-like to your mid-thirties. And you get the part of Captain Benjamin Willard in Apocalypse Now, an incredible part and one that's gone down in movie history as being a golden one. You were being directed by Francis Ford Coppola, you were working with Marlon Branda, who I imagine for any young actor is a hero. Was he a hero for a moment? Yes, he was.

Martin Sheen19:08

Was he a hero for her? Yes, he was. How was that to work with? I adored him. You know, he he was so disarming and so genuine.

Presenter19:17

And legendarily it was it was a real horror to film. I mean it you know it it didn't go smoothly. No, smoothly would not be the word. No, what what

Martin Sheen19:22

No, smoothly would not be the word. No, what what would be your what would be your word? Slowly. It was a long and arduous journey, not the least of which was some bad weather. You know, we got hit with uh a couple of uh severe storms, one which knocked out the sets, you know, and sent us packing.

Presenter19:24

Yeah.

Presenter19:26

Yeah

Presenter19:42

And when did you suffer your heart attack?

Martin Sheen19:45

That would have been march fifth, nineteen seventy seven.

Presenter19:47

Okay. Yeah, that's not a date you're going to forget. Not likely, no. Okay. I mean, did it come completely out of the blue? Yeah. Right.

Martin Sheen19:50

Not likely.

Martin Sheen19:52

Did it come completely out of the blue? Yeah. Right. I was alone.

Martin Sheen19:57

Where are you? Yeah, I was alone.

Presenter19:59

Oh my god.

Martin Sheen19:59

Janet and I were renting a little cottage up on a volcanic lake in the Philippines. And we used to go on weekends to Manila to make phone calls home. There were no cell phones in those days. But this particular weekend it was hard to get a hotel room. So Janet went Friday night because I had to work Saturday morning and got us a room and was waiting for me. And of course I never showed up because I'd had a heart attack in the meantime. It came on a very early Saturday morning and I was isolated so I had to get to the road somehow. I don't know quite how I crawled actually. I thought it was the end. Did you? You saw the end? Oh yeah, yeah. I thought, well, this is what it's like to die. And I remember specifically thinking, I said, well, it's not so bad, you know, because at that point the pain had stopped, you know, and I was resigned to it. And there was no fear. I remember that very, very specifically. And I remember going, you know, moving.

Presenter20:33

Did you? You saw that? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Martin Sheen20:55

And then I realized if I continued, I would not get back.

Martin Sheen20:59

And I had to very consciously

Martin Sheen21:02

Stop this journey and get back because I had too much responsibility. I had children, little children, and Janet, and it would be too much of a burden. So I began to literally will and bring myself back. I remember reaching down and pulling the grass and eating the grass. Anything that was, you know, that would ground me again. Yes, anything that would connect me and determined to stay alive. And the more I got back into living consciousness, the worse the pain became again. Because, you know, boy, when I came back, the pain was excruciating. Anyone who has had a heart attack will tell you that.

Speaker 121:21

Yes.

Presenter21:39

And when you got to see the doctors in Manila and you were monitored and all the tests were done, what did the doctors tell you?

Martin Sheen21:39

Yeah.

Martin Sheen21:43

Tests were done.

Martin Sheen21:45

You know, when I finally got to the hospital they they were able to reach Janet, and she met me at at Makati Medical Center, and they were terrific there. They really pulled it together for me. And she whispered in my ear, It's only a movie, babe.

Martin Sheen21:59

Yeah, and I started getting well right away.

Presenter22:01

I started getting well right away. Yeah, it actually happened. Were you working too hard or were you playing too hard? What was it?

Martin Sheen22:08

Well, you know, I think in um hm I think that psychologically I gave myself that problem to stop the madness in my life. That began a journey of inward

Martin Sheen22:23

proportion, you know. I mean, I really was determined to

Speaker 122:24

Yeah.

Martin Sheen22:27

Try to find out what all this was this great mystery was all about.

Martin Sheen22:32

And so from 1977 until 1981, I was on this quest, and it culminated in Paris in 1981. I was doing a film in Paris, and I ran into an old dear friend, Terence Malek, whom I hadn't seen for a while. I was in his first movie, Badlands. And he's a very devout man himself. Finally, he gave me the one book that really was the final step that I needed to take, and it was The Brothers Karamatsov by Doshevsky. And at that time, there was a national election going on in France, and François Mitterrand won the election.

Speaker 122:38

Uh it

Martin Sheen23:13

And this was his theme, Eau de Joy. And all of Paris, all of France was playing this everywhere you went. And this was at the same time that I was on the final step of a very important decision. And that decision culminated in Paris on May 1st, 1981, where I rejoined the the Catholic faith.

Speaker 323:38

I do so little man.

Presenter24:37

That was the Netherlands radio chorus singing Ode to Joy from Beethoven's Symphony No. nine in D minor with the concert Gerbau Orchestra conducted by Bernard Heitink. You've said, Martin Scheen, in the past, that your faith has to cost you something, otherwise you have to question its value. Tell me about that. That's a very interesting thought.

Martin Sheen24:52

Mm-hmm.

Martin Sheen24:55

Yeah, well, from that day, May 1st, 1981, until the present, really, I'd been a practicing Catholic. And those 25 years have been by far the most difficult and equally the happiest of my life. I became really fully involved in the social justice issues that included homelessness and human rights and women's rights and gay rights. And I began to risk, you know, I'd be arrested very often.

Presenter25:21

So, how did it change your day-to-day existence? What did you stop doing and what did you start doing?

Martin Sheen25:25

Well, I stopped drinking. For one, I became a pacifist.

Presenter25:31

Had you been had you been a very committed drinker?

Martin Sheen25:33

Oh yeah, yeah, no, I've you know, I've

Martin Sheen25:36

Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm in the program, you know, I've been uh for you know, since the mid eighties really, you know, I've been a a member of AA.

Speaker 125:38

Uh

Presenter25:38

Yeah.

Martin Sheen25:45

And it's been a uh a lifeline.

Presenter25:48

Um I appreciate th that this this struggle is not yours, but of course you will know that you have these sons who've been very successful, one of whom is Charlie Sheen, and he himself is having struggles with addiction. Given how deeply you understand those struggles, that must touch you very profoundly.

Speaker 325:58

Yeah.

Martin Sheen26:03

Mm, yes, you know, uh Charlie is um uh dealing with the most profound problems in addiction. There's no secret, you know. His behavior has been uh an example of that.

Martin Sheen26:19

So if he had cancer, you know, how would we

Martin Sheen26:22

How would we deal with him?

Martin Sheen26:24

Well, he has another disease.

Speaker 326:25

Yeah.

Martin Sheen26:26

And it's equally as dangerous as as cancer. And so we we lift him up, we pray for him and be present to him and try to lead him as much as we can. But, you know, he's an adult and

Martin Sheen26:42

He needs a lot of help on a lot of different levels. You know, he's been out there on his own for a very long time.

Martin Sheen26:49

And um

Martin Sheen26:51

as as a family, you know, we're

Martin Sheen26:53

Well, you never get used to it. You know, it's a roller coaster ride and it's been going on for some time, so uh we deal with it.

Presenter26:54

Yeah.

Martin Sheen26:59

You know, every day.

Presenter27:01

Remarkably for the industry you live and work in, you have been you will celebrate your fiftieth wedding anniversary this December. Yeah, December 20th.

Martin Sheen27:07

Yeah, December twenty third, yeah. We actually had been together since nineteen sixty we met in December nineteen sixty and we married a year later in'sixty one. Yeah.

Presenter27:17

Yeah, that's so first of all, I do want to know the secret to a happy marriage, but I before that you'd have to ask Diana. Yeah, because your wife of so many years has been on quite a journey with you and your family.

Martin Sheen27:18

So first of all

Speaker 127:19

Also

Speaker 327:19

Paja

Speaker 327:21

But I

Martin Sheen27:22

But before that, you'd have to ask Deanna.

Martin Sheen27:29

She's the most remarkable human being I've ever known, and I don't have a clue who she is.

Martin Sheen27:38

It's true. I mean, I I don't. I mean, she's she's just extraordinary. She's like a teacher, uh, a friend, companion, a lover, a wife, of course, a mother, all of these things. But she's very much this individual. And she has a great, great sense of humor.

Martin Sheen27:58

I adore her, but honestly, I I don't have a clue who she is. And I asked her once, not too long ago, I said, You know, would would you marry me today, knowing what you know? She says, Are you kidding?

Presenter28:09

That's a very silly question to ask, isn't it? You had it coming. You had that answer coming.

Martin Sheen28:09

Very silly question to ask.

Speaker 328:13

Yeah.

Presenter28:16

So, Martin Sheen, what would you like to hear next? Are we going to hear how great thou art? Speaking about Janet?

Martin Sheen28:22

Yeah.

Martin Sheen28:23

Seems appropriate. That's how I feel about her. This again is one of my favorite uh hymns. And this is a a real choral hymn. I love to sing this hymn and I love to hear it sung uh with a congregation, you know, or a choir, and that's what we have in this case. So this is a powerful, powerful hymn.

Presenter28:27

Layout.

Speaker 328:27

It's

Speaker 128:28

Uh

Speaker 328:42

Those might

Speaker 328:46

And I didn't also want

Speaker 328:52

Concealer all the works my hand has.

Speaker 329:01

I see the star.

Speaker 329:05

I feel a mighty

Speaker 329:22

And seems my soul.

Presenter29:38

That was the London Emmanuel Choir singing How Great Thou Art and you couldn't hear it at home, but Martin Sheen was singing along too. Fine voice, you were in there, Martin Sheen. Let's talk a little bit about how you seem to have

Speaker 329:43

No, he did.

Presenter29:50

I I can't imagine it's been effortlessly woven together your family life and your working life by working with your children, by bringing them on set, by having them around. Has that been a very deliberate thing that you've done in order to try to keep the show on the road?

Martin Sheen30:02

Yeah, very much so. And you know, it had its detraction as well because they gave up a lot of school and spent a lot of time on the road. Uh but on the other hand, they were exposed to particularly third world countries that uh they normally never would have seen.

Presenter30:19

Am I right in saying that they're all actors now?

Martin Sheen30:21

Yes, they are.

Presenter30:22

They all make their living at acting.

Martin Sheen30:22

Yeah.

Martin Sheen30:23

No, they don't uh all quite make their living yet. Renee, my daughter, was Mrs. Laningham's assistant on uh the West Wing. Renee is also a a professional chef. She went to chef school and she met her husband there. He's a professional chef as well. So they work a lot together.

Presenter30:31

Rife.

Presenter30:41

I'm wondering also if your your beliefs you know, as we've said, arrested sixty seven times has giving voice to those feelings ever brought you in conflict with the the Hollywood establishment? I mean, it is a notably conservative establishment. Oh sure, yeah. What have they said? Button it?

Martin Sheen30:47

Yeah.

Martin Sheen30:53

I mean it is

Speaker 130:53

The

Martin Sheen30:55

Establishment. Particularly in some of the more um controversial subjects that I was not welcome in certain company. And that

Presenter31:10

That's okay. And how was that made clear to you? Was it just you know, how does that work? Do you hear it through the grapevine or do you get a call from a studio head?

Martin Sheen31:10

And how was that made?

Martin Sheen31:16

No, I I wouldn't even know who the studio head was, frankly, you know. But yeah, I would get the word, particularly through my agent or other members of the family, you know, like Charlie and Emilio had, you know, when they started very young and they were really doing some very big films and hanging out in some pretty hoity-toity company. So, yeah, they would tell me certain things, you know, hey, hadn't you better be careful of this and that, you know. I was already in my forties, you know, to begin with. So the risk was limited.

Speaker 131:33

You know,

Speaker 131:36

And these

Speaker 331:47

Okay.

Martin Sheen31:47

In reality, I had a feeling that there were as many people that supported what I did that objected to it. Yeah.

Speaker 331:56

Yeah.

Martin Sheen31:57

So I think it all evens out, and if it didn't, I could care less, you know.

Martin Sheen32:01

Nothing I can do about it now, anyway.

Presenter32:03

Ain't that the truth? Let's have some more music then. You're on uh you're on disc seven, Martin. Well. Oh.

Martin Sheen32:08

This is just one of my personal all-time favorites. Uh it's that neighbor of mine again.

Presenter32:14

Oh yeah.

Martin Sheen32:15

Dear friend Matt Clark was doing a film called Pat Garrett and Villa the Kid with Chris Christofferson. And Chris asked Bob Dylan to do the music on the film, which he did. Sam Peckinpaugh was the director, and he didn't have a clue who Bob Dylan was. And this is at the height of Dylan's career and popularity.

Martin Sheen32:37

And Dylan, I'm told, was watching this scene.

Martin Sheen32:41

And he went home that night and came back the next day with the son.

Speaker 332:47

Mama take this mad jaws for me

Speaker 332:54

I can't use it anymore.

Speaker 333:01

Getting dark, too dark to see.

Speaker 333:07

Feel I'm knocking on heaven's door

Presenter33:13

That was Bob Dylan and knocking on Heaven's Door. I'm wondering what your mother would have made of this extraordinary life and glittering career that you've had, Martin Sheen. As you said, you know, the wind was taken out of your sails and then in the eighties you got it right back.

Speaker 133:22

Uh

Martin Sheen33:22

Yeah.

Presenter33:27

What would she think?

Martin Sheen33:28

Well, now, you know, I've always felt her presence, you know. I've never ever felt vacant of her company. I've always felt she was present to me.

Presenter33:36

And was that something that happened more strongly in the 80s when you c came back to your Catholic faith and you began to.

Martin Sheen33:41

I think she had a lot to do with it. Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, I think so, yeah.

Presenter33:43

Do you

Presenter33:46

Do you ever talk directly to her? Do you ever have conversations with her?

Martin Sheen33:49

I I do actually and sometimes I see her.

Martin Sheen33:53

in other people.

Presenter33:56

And so I hope you know, Martin, that that on Desert Island Discs I cast you away onto an island.

Speaker 334:01

How am I?

Presenter34:02

How will you, a man who's been surrounded by fame and family and a good wife, how on earth will you survive?

Martin Sheen34:10

Oh. You know, I don't have a clue, but I I the older I get, the more I enjoy solitude. I don't get lonely when I'm alone.

Martin Sheen34:20

I don't spend nearly enough time uh uh alone. I love to read and listen to classical music.

Presenter34:25

Well, you're going to be very happy on the island. Tell me about your final piece of music then. Disc number eight is what?

Martin Sheen34:33

Well, it's one of the great pieces of music ever written. It's Pacabelle's Canon. It's hard to listen to this without touching something deeply personal and wanting to go there. If you wanted to begin a meditation, if you wanted the stillness, this would be a wonderful piece of classical music to begin by.

Presenter35:56

That was the Berlin Philharmonic playing part of Pachebell's Canon, conducted by Herbert von Carrihan. So I am going to give you, Martin Scheen, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare to take with you to the island, and you're allowed to take a book of your own. What book is it going to be?

Martin Sheen36:08

Okay.

Martin Sheen36:11

The brothers karma.

Presenter36:12

Ah, right. Right, you mentioned it earlier. I will give you a copy of that. And you're allowed a luxury.

Martin Sheen36:14

I will get

Martin Sheen36:18

Okay. Yeah. I would want a golf club and a bag of golf balls.

Presenter36:18

Okay.

Presenter36:21

Oh, that's fine. You can have that.

Martin Sheen36:22

It would either be a sand wedge or a nine iron because I would imagine a desert island would have a lot of sand, so probably a pitching wedge would be better.

Presenter36:28

Yeah.

Presenter36:30

I could actually give you a full set of clubs, I think, if you'd like that.

Martin Sheen36:34

I could probably end up building a nice layout. Yeah, okay, give me a full set. Okay.

Presenter36:40

Okay. Have to be a public course, of course, that you build. You can't. Oh, well, the the whole island is public.

Martin Sheen36:42

Oh well the the whole island is part

Presenter36:45

And if you had to choose just one of the eight pieces of music, which one would you choose to save?

Martin Sheen36:50

Knocking on Heaven's Door.

Presenter36:51

Okay, so you are so Martin Schinn, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Martin Sheen36:55

Thank you so much. I've enjoyed every hour of it.

Speaker 337:00

Ha ha ha ha.

Presenter37:47

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website, bbc. co dot uk slash radio four.