Sir Francis McLean

Speaker 10:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Hi, I'm Lauren Laverne. Welcome to this archive edition of Desert Island Discs. The programme was broadcast in August 1968. The castaway was Sir Francis MacLean, who was the BBC's Director of Engineering, and the presenter was Roy Plumley. You can find the list of tracks chosen on the Castaways page on the Desert Island Discs website. The music has been shortened for rights reasons. We hope you enjoy listening.

Speaker 20:37

Each week a well-known person is asked the question, if you were to be cast away alone on a desert island, which aid gramophone records would you choose to have with you?

Speaker 20:46

As usual, the castaway is introduced by Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:49

Our castaway this week, ladies and gentlemen, recently retired from the post of Director of Engineering at the BBC, Sir Francis MacLean.

Presenter0:57

Sir Francis, would you call yourself a musical person?

Presenter1:00

No, not really. I have no uh performing capacity whatsoever. I like to listen to music. It always gives me a lot of pleasure, but I wouldn't call myself a musical person. What was your plan in choosing these records for the Desert Island?

Presenter1:12

Well, I thought I would need to have something that sort of carried me back to things I've seen and heard.

Presenter1:17

Over the years

Presenter1:18

So I've spaced them out a little bit of various things that I've seen and heard that I thought would bring things back to me. Where do we start? What's the first one?

Presenter1:27

Well, the first time we start in Italy.

Presenter1:29

The first one I would like is Echo Eridenta in cello, sung by Count Almo Viva in the Barbara Seville. Why do you choose this one?

Presenter1:38

I choose it.

Presenter1:39

Back in the early days, you see at the start of broadcasting, I'd been in broadcasting a long time.

Presenter1:44

The engineers used to run the programs.

Presenter1:46

In 1928, I was in Italy building a station on top of a mountain.

Presenter1:51

We were cut off. It was a very severe winter. We were cut off for three days.

Presenter1:57

And we were stuck in this station. We had about 12 records and we just played them over and over again.

Presenter2:02

And one of them was Echo Redento incello, which I liked, and I thought I'd like to start with that today.

Presenter3:01

Anadia from The Bob

Speaker 23:03

Barbara of Seville.

Speaker 23:04

Sung by Luigi Alba. What's your second record?

Presenter3:08

My second record is also takes me back a bit is Dvorak's New World Symphony.

Presenter3:14

What's the reason for that? Well, a bit later I went to Czechoslovakia, again building broadcasting stations there.

Presenter3:22

And uh

Presenter3:23

At that time, Volcác's music, indeed most Czech music, was quite unknown to me.

Presenter3:28

But I heard a lot of it and I had a very great liking for it and particularly for the New World Symphony that

Presenter3:34

reminds me of Czechoslovakia and also the new world in which I'm very interested also.

Presenter4:36

An excerpt from the first movement of the New World Symphony played by the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter4:42

What part of the country do you come from, Sir Francis?

Presenter4:44

Uh I was born in Birmingham.

Presenter4:46

What started your interest in scientific things?

Presenter4:49

Well, I was interested in science at school and I went to the university to study electrical engineering.

Presenter4:55

And while I was at the university I took an interest in radio and uh was an amateur and built myself sets.

Presenter5:02

So when I left the university, I looked for a job in the radio business, in the broadcasting.

Presenter5:07

And uh I joined uh an industrial company that was in that in in that sort of business.

Presenter5:13

in the research and development side of that company.

Presenter5:16

And I had about twelve years with them working on the design of transmitting equipment, aerials and so on. Yes, this was this took you to Italy and and Czechoslovakia to build the stations, as as you were talking about just now.

Speaker 15:28

Door

Presenter5:29

Oh, I did a lot of travelling. I went pretty well all over Europe.

Presenter5:34

And for a number of years I was stationed in Paris and was working in Paris.

Presenter5:40

I went to Hungary and Finland and

Presenter5:43

Scandinavia, all over the place. And then you decided that you'd like to join the BBC.

Presenter5:49

Then I thought maybe the time would come after about twelve years with this company

Presenter5:53

I was asked whether I would like to join the BBC uh and I did do so. What was your job to start with?

Presenter5:59

I was in charge of transmitter design.

Presenter6:02

And uh

Presenter6:03

This was in the 1937.

Presenter6:06

And uh

Presenter6:08

We were working on design of transmitters for medium-wave broadcasting, short-wave broadcasting.

Presenter6:14

And television broadcasting.

Presenter6:17

Later of course came uh VHF broadcasting. But it was on the transmitting side uh that that I was engaged. Yes, you worked on the BBC's technical preparations for war, the synchronization of transmitters and everything. Yes, that that was one of the things that was done.

Speaker 16:28

Yeah.

Presenter6:31

And during the war?

Presenter6:33

During the war, towards the end of 1943, I was seconded to the Psychological Warfare Division of Schaefer.

Presenter6:41

And uh I was in shape.

Presenter6:43

Uh until the middle of nineteen forty five. Yes. And what was your job in in psychological warfare? That this obviously means putting the wind up the enemy by any possible psychological means. But you you went into Europe after the invading armies. Yes, I went with them. Uh I went into Paris on the day it was liberated.

Presenter7:03

And uh I went pretty widely in Europe.

Presenter7:06

I went as far east as Leipzig,

Presenter7:09

We were not.

Presenter7:11

Altogether, it's not true to say we were putting the wind up, we were seeking to inform the enemy that the things that he didn't appreciate.

Presenter7:18

And we were also informing the local population. We had mobile transmitters that we put up and we did our best to repair and get on the air.

Presenter7:27

Transmitters that had been enemy controlled. Yes. Some of these we were successful, some had been so completely destroyed that we couldn't do anything.

Presenter7:35

Well, let's have your third record now. Well, my third record would again be checked.

Presenter7:40

This is the song of Silver Moon from the opera Rusalka.

Presenter7:44

I first heard this at the Czech National Opera House in 1930.

Presenter7:49

I liked it very much and I've liked it ever since.

Sir Francis McLean8:03

Happen ye, oh, he's all

Sir Francis McLean8:10

On the chain.

Sir Francis McLean8:18

Come on, every

Speaker 28:42

Rita Strike, singing O Silver Moon from Borczak's opera.

Speaker 28:47

Rusalka.

Speaker 28:48

So

Presenter8:48

After the war, Sir Francis back to the BBC, a lot of post-war sorting out. Order out of chaos on the medium wave band, I suppose, first.

Presenter8:57

Approaching order out of chaos. We had to get three sound programs.

Presenter9:05

Home light and third where previously on the same amount of wavelengths we'd had to do only two programs the light and the home

Presenter9:12

And of course during the war there had been an enormous increase in the number of transmitters in Europe, in all countries, the power of the transmitters.

Presenter9:20

So that the medium wave situation

Presenter9:24

Was not exactly order.

Presenter9:26

And of course it h it's not order now. There is a great deal of pirating of wavelengths. Pirating of wavelength and increase in power, unauthorized use of wavelength.

Speaker 19:28

There is a

Speaker 19:30

Yeah.

Presenter9:35

People on the wrong channels. And uh it would be wrong to say that it's order on the medium waves. In fact, the only place where there's order is on VHF. Yes. And this is the

Presenter9:47

waveband to use to get good sound reception.

Presenter9:51

Then of course the expansion of T V.

Presenter9:54

Yeah, this was the big thing since the war.

Presenter9:57

Television expansion both on BBC One went ahead at an enormous speed and then BBC Two came.

Presenter10:06

And then colour. All these things have gone at a terrific rate since the war.

Presenter10:11

What about stereophony?

Presenter10:13

Stereop this is now pretty well settled. It's quite settled as far as this country is concerned. There is a good system of stereophony. Uh it's being broadcast at the present time to a limited extent and it's hoped that this will uh this amount of broadcasting will increase. You think there's a future for it?

Presenter10:29

I would think so. I think a limited future. The the audience, I think, will always be rather small.

Presenter10:34

But uh an important audience. Yes.

Presenter10:37

Uh how long were you director of engineering? For five years.

Presenter10:41

And the big things on your plate during those five years were what? The um opening of the second television service, of course. Yeah, there's the start of television on 625 lines and BBC Two. And of course the advent of colour television, which I'd like to talk about in

Speaker 110:48

Yeah, this

Presenter10:55

more detail in a few minutes, but let's have your fourth record.

Presenter10:59

Well, my fourth record takes me back to my pre-BBC days when I was working in Hungary.

Presenter11:06

I got to like all kinds of uh Hungarian music.

Presenter11:09

But I think the Hungarian gypsy music was the thing that stays in my mind most.

Presenter11:15

And here's a little song about only one small girl in all the world.

Sir Francis McLean11:20

Oh there's peaceful life. One of the

Speaker 111:27

Panofina.

Sir Francis McLean11:33

Hosi cham jam colombo.

Speaker 111:41

Jan Colonel.

Presenter11:46

A Hungarian gypsy song sung by Kalmar Pau.

Presenter11:50

Sir Francis, are you completely personally convinced that colour television is worthwhile? Oh, absolutely. I think colour brings a reality to television and I.

Presenter12:00

A sense of realization that is not possible with black and white, I think absolutely worthwhile. Despite the fact that it's another complication in life and also very expensive.

Presenter12:12

I think so, but if we took life down to its simplest form, you know, we shouldn't be left with many pleasures. I think colour's well worthwhile.

Presenter12:19

As Director of Engineering, you had the same major problem that a predecessor had had thirty years before with the coming of television itself. You had to decide which system of color television to use. How many were there to choose from?

Presenter12:33

Well, there were three systems uh definitely proposed. Basically they they were very similar. There were only minor differences between the three. And there was a fourth system that was half-heartedly proposed. You favored the American system?

Presenter12:46

My own thought would have been it would have been better to have taken the American system as it was without modification.

Presenter12:52

But the question came down to a mixture of technical, political.

Presenter12:58

Financial uh

Presenter13:00

factors and it was very important to get the maximum agreement in Europe on a common system. And in fact the the system the BBC is using is is the German system. It's the German system. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's a very good system.

Speaker 113:10

This will jump to the

Presenter13:13

Mhm. Let's have your fifth record now.

Presenter13:16

Well my fifth record is Prokofiev, an excerpt from the a dance from Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet.

Presenter13:24

My wife and I were lucky enough to get some tickets for the first visit of the Bolshoi to Covent Garden.

Presenter13:29

And we went along to see Romeo and Juliet, thinking we were going to hear the Guno version.

Presenter13:35

And we were somewhat staggered when we got there to find it was Prokofiev.

Presenter13:39

It was quite unknown to us, but we were absolutely entranced with the music. Since then,

Presenter13:45

I have seen Romeo and Juliet also at the Bolshoy in Moscow. We've seen the film and we always listen to the music with the greatest of pleasure.

Presenter14:55

Yeah.

Speaker 214:55

The London Symphony Orchestra playing an excerpt from the Montagues and Capulets.

Speaker 215:00

From Brokofiev's Romeo and Juliet.

Presenter15:03

What's your sixth record, T. My sixth record is a Mozart record.

Presenter15:08

I wanted something by Mozart.

Presenter15:11

It seemed hard to think of a a short extract that would really do it.

Presenter15:17

And then I suppose I wanted to get two for the price of one and to get uh Mozart

Presenter15:22

And some uh favoured voices.

Presenter15:24

So finally I thought what I would like to hear

Presenter15:28

Will be the duet between Zelina and Don Giovanni from Don Giovanni.

Sir Francis McLean15:39

Enjoy

Sir Francis McLean15:44

Rain on earth, hallelujah.

Sir Francis McLean15:49

Yahi Yoda

Sir Francis McLean15:57

Yeah.

Presenter16:36

A duet from the first act of Mozart's Dom Giovanni, sung by Eberhard Wrechter and Graziella Schutti.

Presenter16:43

How could you endure the how well could you endure the solitude and loneliness of a desert island?

Presenter16:49

I think for a time I'd endure it very well if I had a reasonable supply of raw materials, food and uh and things to do. Well, this is up to you. I mean, I I take it for granted that

Presenter16:59

You're a good practical man with a screwdriver and a soldering arm. How are you with uh at carpentry and cultivation and?

Presenter17:06

Oh, I do quite a lot of this. I do a lot of gardening and I do some carpentry and uh

Presenter17:12

Oh, I I wouldn't be I wouldn't be stuck, I'm sure. Right. Would you try to escape? Oh, surely, yes.

Presenter17:18

I think after I'd played over these records a few times, I should be wanting to get and play over some others.

Presenter17:24

Do you know anything about navigation and small boats?

Presenter17:27

I do um sailing whenever I can get away.

Presenter17:31

And uh I've never been any any distance, but

Presenter17:34

I wouldn't mind trying.

Presenter17:36

But have record number seven.

Presenter17:38

Well, my seventh record is a bit nearer home. It's the um Ascot scene from my fair lady.

Presenter17:44

I live near to Ascot.

Presenter17:46

We go there fairly often. But chiefly I want this to bring back to mind the absolute breathtaking

Presenter17:52

site of that scene in the Drury Lane production.

Presenter17:55

and the belly-like precision with which the men and women move around the stage to this tune.

Sir Francis McLean18:01

What a frenzy development that was made they maintain an exhausting pace.'Twas a thrilling, absolutely chilling running of the atstopping grace.

Speaker 118:02

Frenchy demanded that was favourite they maintained.

Speaker 218:35

The Ascot Gabot From my fair lady, what's your last record going to be?

Presenter18:40

My last record is to take me back to Paris.

Presenter18:44

After thinking about this a lot, I finally came out in favour of Chaltrune Boom.

Sir Francis McLean18:49

La ponte du le fête tick, tack, tic, tic, les vaiseau de lac, pic, pack, pic, pic. Glu, glu, glu, font toureta, don, et la jalique la cha, ding, dang, dom, et boom.

Sir Francis McLean19:00

Can't require a single one.

Sir Francis McLean19:03

Tuta veguiri bum este amour qui seveille.

Sir Francis McLean19:09

Boom

Sir Francis McLean19:10

Eel shot a love wing bloom.

Sir Francis McLean19:12

Oh, it madas a boomer, quirodi boom, a l'orreya.

Presenter19:21

If you could take just one record of the eight you played us, which would it be?

Presenter19:25

I think I should have to take the one with the most on it.

Presenter19:28

I I think the one that would mean most, the one I should take, would be Dworcek's New World Symphony.

Presenter19:33

And one luxury to take with you.

Presenter19:35

I should take a picture.

Presenter19:38

And I should like to take a Dutch flower picture.

Presenter19:42

It seems to me that in a somewhat arid

Presenter19:46

Climate as a desert island sounds to be.

Presenter19:49

I should like to look at European flowers and see the beautiful freshness of the leaves with the sparkling raindrops on them in a Dutch flower picture. Yes. Have you one particular one in mind? Yes, if you could arrange to steal it for me, I would be very grateful.

Presenter20:04

It's in the Wallace collection, it's painted by Hysom, and it's at the top of the stairs. Right. And one book to take with you, apart from the Bible and Shakespeare.

Presenter20:14

Um

Presenter20:16

Buy the Buy One Book

Presenter20:18

This means one work. I can take a multiple.

Speaker 220:19

Himatio

Presenter20:20

Oh, well in this case I think I would undoubtedly take Gibbon's Decline and Fall, right, in which you'll find many modern parallels, I'm sure. Yes, indeed, almost anything can be matched there, and lessons for the future can be derived from it.

Presenter20:34

And thank you, Sir Francis MacLean, for letting us hear your choice of Desert Island Discs.

Presenter20:39

Thank you for inviting me. Goodbye, everyone.