Kathy Burke

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

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For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

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My castaway this week is Cassie Burke. An actor, writer and director, she has the rare talent of winning over critics whilst also appealing to the masses. She bagged the Best Actress Award at Cannes for her portrayal of the wife of a violent alcoholic in Gary Oldman's film Nil by Mouth, and worked alongside Harry Enfield to create Kevin and Perry and Wayne and Winnetta Slob.

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Her speciality, it seems, is bringing characters to our attention who rarely have the spotlight shone upon them.

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She has a lack of vanity that is rare.

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Of her younger self she says, I had this laddish way about me with my deep voice and telling jokes all the time. I was Burkey, the little fellow in a skirt. It's a description that makes her sound unfeminine, but that's a simplification. She shows, according to Stephen Fry, that it is possible to be a woman without going all mincey and weird.

Presenter1:27

Do you know that do you know that he said that? No. Do you like that? Well, Stephen Fry's saying my name is quite nice.

Kathy Burke1:28

That thing.

Presenter1:34

He said that he was on room one oh one and he said there should be a special room that we put all the nice things in and that you should go in it. Oh, whoa, that makes me feel a little bit sick.

Kathy Burke1:34

Yeah.

Kathy Burke1:36

He said the sh

Presenter1:46

Okay, that's a good place to start. Lack of vanity. You see you seem to possess that. That's our that's how you seem to us, the public, when we watch you. Do you not mind presenting yourself in a way that most actresses would shy away from? Somebody who's got sort of snot hanging out their nose or dressed as a boy, all that sort of stuff warps on your face.

Kathy Burke1:47

Please start.

Kathy Burke1:53

Right.

Kathy Burke2:02

It was hard.

Kathy Burke2:04

And

Presenter2:05

Well, no. When I was acting I didn't mind at all really. To me it was more fun, putting some scabs on and greasing the hair rather than washing the hair and

Kathy Burke2:08

Yeah.

Presenter2:15

Distressing the clothes rather than making sure the clothes were nice and pristine. It was always quite nice really. And giving up acting. I mean, you I know you've you've famously phoned your agent and said, I want you to make me available as a director, I don't want you to make me available as an actress. Have you absolutely closed the door on it now?

Kathy Burke2:28

Mm.

Kathy Burke2:33

Yeah.

Presenter2:36

Well, I'll never say never, but I just thought I'd take a couple of years out and it's now turned into eight, nearly nine years.

Presenter2:44

So it's sort of taken me by surprise how quickly this time has gone. I probably would like to go back at some point, but when I don't know, and what it'll be, I don't know. It was a highly unusual decision for somebody as successful as you. I mean, apart from, I'm sure, the money being good, also the acclaim. I mean, as I say, you know, at Cannes winning that award, I mean, it doesn't get much better than that. So it's very strange that you walked away from it. Were lots of people who knew you well puzzled by the decision? Well, people that knew me really well, they weren't puzzled by the decision. I got more of a buzz out of directing than acting. And basically, I mean, I don't wish to sound ungrateful, but when everything started to really kick off for me, you know, after getting the award at Cannes, it suddenly seemed to get out of my control. And what I always loved was being in control. And then to be suddenly inundated with scripts and ideas and films can be made if you're attached to them. I just started to feel a bit suffocated, really. Tell me then about your first choice today of the Eighth. What's the first disc we're going to hear? Well, to me, this is the latest genius on the block, which is Lady Gaga.

Kathy Burke3:53

Yeah.

Presenter3:59

I think Lady Gaga is a great performance. And this track in particular, I just think is brilliant. And you cannot help but get up and dance. And when I'm on the island, I want to dance.

Speaker 44:12

Ra-rah

Speaker 44:14

Roma, Roma Maga, la la What you're romance

Speaker 44:26

Y'all love.

Kathy Burke4:27

Want your bar mic

Kathy Burke4:29

I want your ugly, I want your disease I want your everything as long as it's free, I want your love

Kathy Burke4:39

Love, love

Presenter4:42

That was Lady Gaga and Bad Romance. You say you chose it, Kathy Burke, because you like her sense of performance. As a director, do you find it knowing it on the other side of the coin, knowing what it's like to be an actor, do you think that makes it easier to direct? I think what's put me in good stead is that they do listen to me. I do remember I directed a production of The Queer Fella by Brendan Behant.

Speaker 44:47

Moon

Presenter5:04

And I had eighteen Irishmen in that. And one of the actors he sneakily had um the play in a book version and was and he was lying on the ground and I think he thought I couldn't see it. So I just went over and booted it and gave it a really good kick. And so he learnt the lines for the next stage. And what about your performance? At the time that you were acting, are you somebody who would watch The Rushes in the evening? No, no. I never really watched myself, really. You know, you think you felt something with such intensity, and then when you watch it, it's not coming through, you know?

Speaker 45:39

Yeah.

Presenter5:40

Although I will admit to a few years ago, I was babysitting for a friend of mine, and Gimme, Gimme, Gimme was on. And I'd never really seen it before, and I was laughing my head off at myself. And then I had the key in the door, and I quickly flicked over like I was watching porn. And it was because I was finding myself so funny. You'd rather be caught watching porn than at the other end of the scale, of course, was Valerie that you played in Ill by Mice, who was, I mean, abused doesn't really even cover it. She was a woman that was very, very downtrodden, was in a remarkably abusive relationship. Ray Winston played her husband's incredibly graphic and powerful scenes of the violence that he meted out against her, often quite sort of casually. How difficult.

Kathy Burke6:00

You'd rather be

Kathy Burke6:07

Yeah.

Kathy Burke6:10

It was a woman.

Kathy Burke6:17

Yeah.

Kathy Burke6:22

Against our

Kathy Burke6:24

Yeah.

Presenter6:26

Was that to portray on screen?

Presenter6:28

Well, I mean, what was wonderful about Neil My By Mouth really, I I just feel it had such a good heart behind it, you see. And Gary Oldman had written such a brilliant script and to me it was like finally I was I was making a film that was going to be quite hard hitting and

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Show again a darker side of life, but a side of life that did exist for people. Who were you up against to win Best Actress at Cannes?

Presenter6:55

Um Kim Bassinger. Right. That was it.

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And there was obviously a couple of French birds in the mix. Do you walk up the red carpet with them on the on the night? No, I was flown out on the day. Gary Ollman phoned me up, it was on a Sunday and he phoned me up in the morning and said you've won Best Actress, you've got first of all I thought he was me Auntie Joan, because they do sound quite similar.

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And I was in my pyjamas, and he said, You've got to fly out to Cannes today.

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So then all of a sudden it was all systems go and my agent Stephen rang up and said do they realize you've not got a passport? Because I hadn't actually flown anywhere for about eight years. Under those circumstances are you just sort of whisked through immigration? Well it was a private jet darling. Luc Besson sent his private jet. Who was the producer? Who was the producer? And what about a frock and the diamonds and all that? Well luckily Harry Enfield had got married the month before so I had a really nice two-piece suit.

Kathy Burke7:36

I was allowed.

Kathy Burke7:40

Who was the producer?

Kathy Burke7:42

And what about a frog?

Speaker 47:44

What

Presenter7:50

And it was just extraordinary. It's easy for people to dismiss these things. You know, they they are a terrific circus and the sort of fripperies of the work you do, but given how important you felt it was that. That this film was made. It must have felt pretty terrific to have that sort of recognition for somebody that's so unfashionable. Well, it really was. And when I was younger, I was a big fan of the Play for Todays and of Ken Loach and stuff like that. And um and also I used to go home every night and think there, but for the grace of God go I.

Kathy Burke8:04

Yeah.

Presenter8:18

So it made me even more appreciative of my own life and what I I had achieved in my life and the fact that I wasn't a woman that was in an abusive relationship.

Presenter8:32

More in a moment. For now, some music, though, Kathy Brack. What what have we got?

Presenter8:36

Oh, yeah. Well, of course I had to have the specials because, um, Jerry Dammers.

Presenter8:41

Again, just a bit of a genius. And this was a really important time for me, 79, 80. I love the specials, and this is Gangsters.

Presenter9:21

That was the specials and gangsters. You said, Kathy Burke, that that one of the things that occurred to you throughout the making of nil by mouth was the sense that they are but for the grace of God. Because of the background you came from, which was an immigrant Irish background living in London and

Kathy Burke9:37

Mm.

Presenter9:39

Paint me a picture. Paint me a picture of where you lived and how you lived. Well, I lived in quite wonderful flats, actually, looking back on it, called Horton Mansions in Islington. But mum died, I can't remember the year, but I was coming up for two. And I've got two elder brothers and my dad, Pat. And Pat did have a drinking problem. So that was quite tough at times. There was always this threat over my head of not having a mum so I could end up in a home, you know. Would he say that, or were that implicit? Was it? Well, I just no, I just knew it, you know. I just sort of knew that that would be the case, you know. So even though I was quite a naughty girl, I wasn't so naughty that I was a bad girl. And there was a sort of temporary fostering arrangement with a neighbour that it sounds like it worked quite well. It did. I think it worked extremely well, but it was sort of done through the church.

Kathy Burke10:29

But

Presenter10:35

A woman called Joan Galvin uh looked after me Monday to Friday.

Presenter10:40

And then at the weekends, I would go home. And this was up to about the age of seven or eight, I think. Your brothers were quite a bit older then. How much of a gap? Well, John's about. See, my brother John is terrible. He always tells people he's younger than me. And he does look younger than me. But John is about eight years older than me, I think. And Barry's about six years older than me. And if your dad sort of wasn't really running the house, who was running the house? He was doing the shopping and John the clean. John, the eldest, yeah. John was more like dad to me, really.

Kathy Burke11:07

Yeah.

Presenter11:15

I

Presenter11:16

Never I liked upsetting John'cause I think I always knew John had enough on his plate really. It's so funny talking about it now'cause he'll be if he's listening, he will be he'll be cringing. But um but did he cook and things, did he? Yeah, John was a great cook.

Kathy Burke11:28

Did he cook did he cook and things?

Presenter11:32

He'd get me up in the morning, he'd make me my breakfast, he'd get my clothes ready.

Presenter11:38

Then he and Barry this is a little bit later on now.

Presenter11:42

They were both quite brainy, so they went to the London Oratory in Chelsea.

Presenter11:47

So not only was John taking care of me and Barry, he was also then going over to Chelsea from Islington every day to go to school.

Presenter11:58

Which I look back now and I'm I'm astounded. Because that to to be clear to people who don't know London, it's a big enough journey if you're an adult, but doing that when you're a school child, I mean it's uh it's an hour journey, really.

Kathy Burke12:00

Is that

Kathy Burke12:05

Yeah, you know.

Presenter12:09

I suppose it just felt normal to me. It'd be like normal to having a mum that was there doing everything. Did he talk to you? I mean, obviously, given that he was older, he had very, very firm recollections of your mother. She was very present for him for all those seven, eight years. Yeah. Did he talk to you about your mum? No.

Kathy Burke12:23

Yeah.

Presenter12:26

Nal.

Presenter12:28

Mum was never talked about. I was a minx, I was an horrible little you know, so so, because um I learnt very quickly how to use not having a mother.

Presenter12:38

You know, if I was upset about something, like I wanted a Mars bar, I knew I had to turn on the waterworks and say, I miss my mum. Pretty disgusting. But I do think it's child survival, really. You sort of latch on to

Kathy Burke12:48

Really?

Presenter12:51

Well, you know, you can get some sympathy, you know. Sure. Let's have some music then. Number three, what are we going to hear?

Presenter12:59

Well, this is about Manchester. This is my love for Manchester. When we were kids, my Uncle Joe, who was my dad's brother, when Joe and Pat, my dad, came over from Ireland, Dad went to London and Joe went to Manchester. So then sometimes at Easter time, I'd go up and spend Easter with Uncle Joe in Manchester. And I'd always come back talking like that. I'd always.

Presenter13:23

And my brothers would be like, Why are you talking like that? And it was really difficult because I'm a massive Smiths fan. So this was the hardest track for me to decide actually. It's like what to me is a great

Presenter13:34

Manchester Anthem and its um joy division, Lovell Terrorist Apart.

Speaker 413:46

Package and move guys in my

Speaker 414:02

Love is generative power.

Presenter14:08

That was joy, division and love will tear us apart. Fond memories, you say, Cathy Burke of Manchester and all the time you spent up there. Um can we talk about the the comic masterpiece that is Perry of Kevin and Perry?

Speaker 414:13

Yeah.

Kathy Burke14:13

Uh

Presenter14:20

Oh, yes, of course, if we must. How old was Perry? Was he. How old was Perry? Perry was, well,.

Presenter14:27

13, hitting 14, I think. Okay, yes, and all the hormones coming into play. Where did you go for that? Where did you get that sort of characterisation from? Were you thinking about your brothers? No, I was thinking more of myself. I think Perry is probably the closest I've ever played to myself, really, because I was quite an awkward teen. I hated being a teenager. I really hated it. I just didn't know what was going on or what I was turning into. I think when I hit 13, I looked 45. And something happened to my hair, my face. I don't know what went on. It was just something out of the black lagoon came merging and just felt very awkward. So it was really lovely then to play Perry and to sort of remember all that awkwardness that I felt and put it into this little fella, you know. How did you deal with it at the time in real life when you were 12, 13, 14?

Presenter15:30

I don't know. I don't think I dealt with it very well. I just think I was just miserable and moody and spotty and fed up and I hated school.

Presenter15:42

But my Saviour, I think, was punk.

Presenter15:46

And I was looking at people, you know, and I thought, well, they look like a mess. They don't look, they've got spots and they're not pretty, they're not glamorous people. And I felt sort of a bit maleish rather than female, you know. So then it was great, and I could suddenly shave my head and wear army trousers and DM boots, and then everything sort of evened out for me. It was nice. And so in the introduction, I said they were your words, Berkey, the little fella in the skirts. I mean, you could be that person and that that socially had a place. Yeah. Even though it was quite a rebellious place. Yes. It was just suddenly easier to be me.

Kathy Burke16:14

Yeah.

Kathy Burke16:19

Yeah.

Presenter16:25

And what about dipping your toe in the water of boys then? That was I mean, when you're twelve, thirteen. You you you want a bit of that attention. Even if you don't. welcome it even you want it.

Kathy Burke16:33

But yeah, yeah.

Kathy Burke16:34

Yeah.

Presenter16:36

Well, he said, Well, a great way for me to hang around with the boys more was to dress like them. And I always preferred boys to girls anyway. I preferred their company. Why was that? Girls would always take the Mickey out of the way I looked, whereas boys didn't, really. So, yeah, I was never that comfortable with girls. It's only as I got older that then the female friend was

Presenter16:59

It was fantastic and something now I just couldn't do without.

Presenter17:03

And the women who had been in your life, the older women who had helped to to take care of you, there was your neighbour who for a time had fostered you, did did they ever sit you down on the edge of the bed and say

Presenter17:13

You know you're a gorgeous girl, and you know everything's going to be all right.

Presenter17:16

Um oh, I dunno. Oh, bless them. No, I don't think they ever told me I was gorgeous. No.

Presenter17:25

But that isn't their fault. I mean, I wasn't really. My hair was always in rats' tails, my teeth were bad. Punk was a great help.

Presenter17:34

I was part of something new. Oh, it was so empowering.

Presenter17:39

Let's have some music. Tell me about your next piece of music then. Well, is it? Well, oh right, now well, now we have. We have the sex pistols.

Speaker 417:41

Uh

Kathy Burke17:41

But

Presenter17:45

And pretty vacant.

Presenter17:47

Well, I think I've talked about all that, you know, how this music.

Presenter17:51

I really do think it changed my life.

Presenter17:56

I'll go see me but I don't desire

Presenter18:00

Now return is no

Kathy Burke18:02

Too much fun, yellow, white, wonderful

Speaker 418:11

Where's our date?

Kathy Burke18:13

Oh, so Billy!

Kathy Burke18:16

When they come

Kathy Burke18:18

We're so pretty, I'm so pretty.

Presenter18:23

That was the Sex Pistols and pretty vacant. Tell me, Cathy Brook, about Mr. Paul. Oh yes, yes. He was an English teacher.

Presenter18:33

in my secondary school and we never did drama and um he uh suddenly decided to do drama with us.

Presenter18:42

And he was sort of getting his ideas from a book written by Anna Scher.

Presenter18:49

I think he thought I had potential. I see. And then he said to me, Look, you do realize that this woman, Anna Cher, who's written this book.

Presenter18:58

She runs a school and it is literally ten minutes away from where you live.

Presenter19:04

And and I and I do think again it sort of saved me actually uh by the time I got there because I was sort of hanging around with people that were not that great and there was a real aggression in the air in the late seventies and um

Presenter19:17

Just the atmosphere was really hardcore. And were you angry? Were you an angry young woman?

Presenter19:23

Do you know what I don't think I was? I think I got angry in my twenties, which wasn't very good because then I started drinking a lot. I'd get really angry in pubs and suddenly turn over tables and go nuts for no reason. I just needed a checkup from the neck up really. And I didn't get around to doing that until I was early 30s. So it took me a long time to sort myself out emotionally.

Presenter19:47

But but that was good in the twenties as well because then I stopped drinking. I was like, oh no, I can't be doing this anymore. How much were you drinking? Oh, I was drinking a lot. Yeah, I was drinking every day, every night. I suddenly thought, Oh, I've got to put a stop to this. And also'cause somebody I met someone in the street and they said, Oh, I'll know where to find you when you're eighty, which was in this pub, the old red lion. And I thought, oh no, that's not my story. That can't be me.

Kathy Burke19:52

Yeah.

Presenter20:11

So um so I knocked it on the head. But I still have a drink now, but I'm not I'm I'm sort of in control of it.

Presenter20:18

Let's have some more music. Tell me what we're going to hear next. We're on disc number five. Oh, right. So, this goes way back to when I was about seven.

Presenter20:25

This reminds me of Horton Mansions, these great flats that I grew up in, that had three big expanses of green grass. It was always wonderful in the summer. All the kids would be out.

Presenter20:37

And we had so much freedom running in and out of the blocks of the flats, and this just takes me right back to those really happy days, and it's T Rex Ride White Swan. Riding all out like a bird in the sky was riding all out like a you were a bird, flying

Speaker 420:55

Lord outside

Presenter20:56

Hakaniga Lee.

Speaker 420:56

Sun's moon riding on a

Speaker 220:59

Whatever you were

Speaker 221:00

Uh

Speaker 421:00

Uh

Speaker 221:00

Uh

Speaker 421:00

We're a tall hat, like the truth in the old days. We're a tall hat and a tattooed gown. Ride a wood.

Speaker 221:13

White swan that the people of a bell tree were your head up.

Speaker 421:16

Uh

Presenter21:18

That was T. Rex and Ride a White Swan. You were talking about your your drinking days, your early drinking days, Cathy Burke, and and you were drinking with, is it true, people like Ray Winston, Danny Boyle, Gary Oldman? Oh, no, I've never had a drink with any of them.

Presenter21:34

Well, I suppose Gary I knew when I was very, very young. I first met Gary when I was eighteen. I had to give him skinhead advice on the Mike Lee film meantime. I got thirty quid for it. You were the consultant? I was skinhead consultant because my best mate Tilly Vosbrough was in that film. And and because I had been part of the two-tone time and the skinhead uh time that he was wanting to portray in this film, she mentioned this to Mike Lee and him in his very doer way said, Well, you know, you better call her in.

Kathy Burke21:45

Please

Presenter22:05

I think we'd better have a little chat and see what she's got to say.

Presenter22:09

I've suddenly made Mike Lee sound like Alan Bennett. I don't know why I've done that. But um so that was when I first met Gary Oldman. Um so of course, as we know, Cathy Brook, you have moved away in recent years from acting to directing. Do you find that you have

Presenter22:24

If you like a sort of louder voice than you had as an individual actor, do you feel that you've got more power and that it's better used?

Presenter22:32

Oh, I don't know. It's more satisfying for me, personally. Whereas I should have been getting more and more happy with these acting roles, and suddenly I was on a list for films. You know, I was a film actress. I was actually getting more and more miserable and depressed and what was it about films that annoyed you and upset you so much? I don't know.

Kathy Burke22:48

What was it like him?

Kathy Burke22:52

I'll second.

Presenter22:54

You know, I don't know, it was just the acting.

Presenter22:57

seemed to be the last thing. There were too many other people involved. I kept getting touched and prodded and fiddled about with and You're being a grumpy Egypt with these people that they're always up three hours at least before you are.

Presenter23:11

And then I'd come in and be all miserable. I don't really want to be here. And I just sort of said, Well, you don't want to be here. Get out of it and let somebody who does want to be here be here, you know. Let's have some more music then. What are we going to hear? Right, okay. Well this, um

Presenter23:25

It is because of my darling friend, Tilly. I'm blessed with good friends.

Presenter23:31

And Tilly has been a constant in my life for nearly 30 years now. And Tilly finally married her boyfriend of like 18 years aide about 10 years ago. And this was the song that we all had to sing. And what was wonderful is, you know, because everyone gets a bit shy, you get a bit shy, oh no, I've got to sing, everyone's got to sing, and a ch-button. But we slowly, the whole congregation, we slowly got into this. And the instructions were now sing out with gusto. And we all did. And it was the most uplifting moment and therefore the best wedding I have ever been to in my life. And it's Frank Sinatra Fly Me to the Moon.

Speaker 224:12

Fly me to the moon, let me play among the stars.

Speaker 224:20

Let me see what spring is like on a Jupiter and Mars.

Speaker 224:28

In other words...

Speaker 224:31

Hold my hand.

Speaker 224:36

In other words.

Speaker 224:39

Baby, kiss me.

Presenter24:43

That was Frank Sinatra and Fly Me to the Moon. So, I mean, you'd just sort of nudged thirty when your father died, so he had lived to see a degree of success. Well, he'd seen the play I'd written, Mr Thomas, that Ray Winston was in, and he loved that. He was very proud of what I was doing. And by that time, how long had he been sober? Ten years. It was a bit sad that he it was sort of he'd realized that he'd wasted a lot of money on drink and a lot of time. A lot of his life, you know, was just wasted with no memories.

Kathy Burke24:51

He had left

Kathy Burke24:53

Yes.

Kathy Burke24:57

Well, he's

Presenter25:23

And then when he was finally in hospital, when he basically only had a couple of days to live and he knew he was dying, and I have to say he was extremely brave. How old were you? He was sixty three. So he was he was young.

Kathy Burke25:35

Yeah.

Presenter25:37

But still, I was quite amazed he'd lived as long as he had, you know, because uh the countless times when we were kids when he'd fall over and crack his head open and you know, so there was a lot of that going on. And we had a chat, we talked, I asked him why did he drink and what did he say?

Presenter25:52

Well, I you know, I think it was his own childhood was a bit rubbish, really. He had an extremely strict father.

Presenter26:02

And he told me a story that his mother tried to kill herself.

Presenter26:08

And Dad found her and saved her.

Presenter26:12

And then she was put in the local mental institution, and that's where she died. And Dad never saw her again. And how old was he when he found her?

Presenter26:20

He told me he was about twelve, I think. And had she tried to kill herself? She h tried to hang herself. Good God.

Presenter26:27

And he'd said to me, you know, my dad, you know, was horrible and strict and all this. And then when I directed The Queer Fella in Kilburn.

Presenter26:36

I got an email from a chap that said, My dad thinks he was at school with your dad.

Presenter26:42

And he sent through a photo on the email, and then I could see it coming through, undoubtedly, my dad.

Presenter26:49

And he said, No, I remember your dad really well. And he said, I remember your dad's dad, though. He said he was a tyrant. He said the whole place was terrified of him.

Presenter26:58

and he said all your dad wanted to do was learn.

Presenter27:02

And I remember your dad's dad coming into the school and dragging your dad out to work on the farm.

Presenter27:08

Is there a degree of sadness about y you only understanding in such depth that aspect of your father when he's not here to share that with and to somehow sort of change things a bit?

Kathy Burke27:12

Another

Kathy Burke27:15

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter27:19

Yeah, but then I but sadly, it took him dying to then tell me about this. And I was very glad to know it. Because when I was a little girl, I spent the majority of my time really hating him and really wouldn't have cared if he'd have died. And so when it finally came round to the fact that he was dying, I'm just really pleased that I'd got to know him as a person and that I did love him because up until you know that point when I was a kid,

Presenter27:51

I don't think I ever said I loved my dad.

Presenter27:53

Because I didn't.

Presenter27:55

To be quite frank.

Presenter27:56

He knew what he'd been like and he

Presenter27:59

He knew he hadn't been a great dad, but he was a kid himself, for goodness sake. And that's, you know, what my brother John always says. My dad wasn't even thirty when he was left with three kids. So, you know.

Presenter28:12

Let's have some music then.

Presenter28:14

We're on disc number seven, a change of pace, I think, Kathy. Yeah. What are we going to hear now? Well, we're going to hear gor I I love Damon Alburn, always have done. And my nephew Louie, who's nine, is a massive fan of the gorillas. So that's why we're going to have gorillas and Clint Eastwood.

Speaker 428:30

Uh

Kathy Burke28:30

Okay, so for

Kathy Burke28:33

I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad I got sunshine In a bag I'm useless, for not for long the future is coming on I ain't happy, I'm feeling glad I got sunshine In a bag I'm useless, for not for long the future is coming on, it's coming on, it's coming on

Presenter29:00

That was Gorillas and Clint Eastwood. Um we talk there so interestingly, Cathy Burker, about your father. Did did you have cause, as you moved into your thirties, to think more about your mother? I know you say that you didn't discuss your mum when you were little, but when you got to the age that she was do you think about her more then?

Speaker 429:14

Mmm, but when

Presenter29:19

Her name was Bridget, Bridget Maulcahi.

Presenter29:22

And she was from Cor.

Presenter29:24

You see, when I was a little girl growing up, my mum was talked about, if she ever was talked about, like she was an angel. She was an angel.

Presenter29:32

Because she died.

Presenter29:34

And it's only when I got older I sort of heard no, she had a bit of a mouth on her and she'd shout at anyone that dare talk to John and Barry in any way that w that wasn't lovely and kind.

Presenter29:46

She was very strong, you know, and I sort of think, oh, God, I much prefer that than some angel, you know.

Presenter29:54

But the one thing I carried into my thirties about her was the way she died, you see. She died of stomach cancer.

Presenter30:01

When she was thirty-six, she already knew she had cancer when she was pregnant with me.

Presenter30:08

But she was determined to have me, no matter how sick it made her. How do you deal with that conundrum? You mentioned earlier the I mean that rather brilliant phrase, the check up from the neck up stuff. That it wasn't about that when you needed to sort your head. Well, I suppose so, because I'd always been very good at letting people know I'm all right. Joke, joke, joke. Yeah, I've not got a mum. My dad drinks a lot, but joke, joke, joke. So I'm all right, you know. And so I think there came a point where I just thought, oh, blind me, I don't think I'm all right, really. I think I need a bit of a cry about this. I'd never grieved losing my mum or anything. So you yourself got ill around about the same age that your mother died of stomach cancer. How did you, I mean, you're quite seriously ill, how did you choose to deal with it? Well, I dealt with it in a very stupid way, which was that I ignored it. So I started getting stomach pains at the age of 36. And mum died, I think, 38, something like that. And I just assumed I'm going to get stomach cancer, like my mum.

Kathy Burke30:18

Oh yeah.

Kathy Burke30:21

Well I

Kathy Burke30:28

Yeah, I've not got a m

Kathy Burke30:45

But that your mother

Kathy Burke30:48

Yeah.

Kathy Burke31:08

Right.

Presenter31:09

And so I ignored it for years.

Presenter31:13

And I was really ill, and I was getting sicker and sicker and sicker. Were you waiting?

Presenter31:18

To die then, right.

Kathy Burke31:18

Yeah.

Presenter31:21

Yes,'cause I thought that I'll definitely die before I'm forty.

Presenter31:24

As soon as the pain started to happen, I thought, oh, here it comes. Oh, here it comes. Did you talk to anyone about it? No.

Presenter31:31

No kept it to myself.

Presenter31:34

The good news was that it was not stomach cancer. The bad news was it it was something very serious. It was, it was something very serious called diverticulitis, which I've never heard of.

Kathy Burke31:38

It was, it was like

Presenter31:43

I also had a massive cyst growing behind the intestine wall that was just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I felt this thing inside me. I thought it was cancer.

Presenter31:53

And then it all turned a bit well, it all got a little bit grim because while I was in hospital I got a hospital bug called Cedar for Sill. Very serious. Very serious, quite hardcore. So that was two years of of illness with him being out of commission. Yeah, yeah. One of the other things that you've said that you are is is very sort of bossy and un uncompromising. And do you find it difficult to have relationships? Are you somebody who's a you know, awkward?

Kathy Burke32:00

From you

Kathy Burke32:05

Commissioner.

Presenter32:17

Yeah, I wasn't made for relationships really. See, we're always told, you know, everyone should be in a relationship because that's what we're told. And for years I was in a lot of sort of upset and unhappiness with myself because I thought I was a freak because I didn't do relationships. How can you write yourself off like that though? How can you say I'm not meant to be in a relationship? But why is it writing myself off? Well, because I think you seem like somebody who could greatly enrich the life of somebody else and whose life could be. Yeah, but I want to enrich my own life. I'm not here to sort out someone else's bleeding life. But they can do the same for you. No, but they never have done. Any time I've given it a go, it's like you're here about all you've got to compromise, compromise. It was me doing all the compromise. Suddenly I'm doing everything for two people rather than one person. That's the way it's always been for me. I spend 90% of my time on my own.

Kathy Burke32:36

I can

Kathy Burke32:40

But why is it?

Kathy Burke32:53

No, it's never

Presenter33:10

And that's the way I like it. I'm a very solitary person. So let's picture a type that could sweep you off your feet. I'm imagining Eric Morecombe crossed with Jeremy Paxman might do it. See, now that's a good little combo. That's a lovely little combination. But you haven't heard my luxury item yet. Somebody else thrown in there as well. Okay, we shall come to that in a minute. Let's have some music then. Tell me about your eighth disc. Okay, well, this is again, it's about being on the desert island and what I want to dance to. And again, another genius from across the pond, Missy Elliott.

Presenter33:41

Missippi puttin' it down, I'm the hottest ground. I tell y'all mother f, y'all can stop me now. Listen to me now, I'm lastin' 20 rounds. And if you want me, then come on get me now. Is you with me now, then bigger, bigger bounce. I know you dig your way, I s switch my style. Holla, hollo. People sing around, let people gather round. Let people jump around.

Presenter34:07

It's a fat.

Kathy Burke34:08

How

Presenter34:10

That was Missy Elliott and Get Your Free Con. We come to the point, Cathy, where I'm going to give you the books now. You get, of course, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you get to choose your own book and take it to the island. What's your book going to be? Well, I'd like a bit of a laugh, actually, if I've got the Bible and Shakespeare. So I'd like the complete works of Graham Linehan, who wrote Father Ted, Black Books, and.

Kathy Burke34:19

Uh-huh.

Presenter34:36

The it crowd all is writing. I'm just a a a proper fan. It's yours and there's a luxury to be taken to. What's your luxury? Well, my luxury is this was quite hard because I thought

Presenter34:49

Fags, what do I need? You know, what's going to keep me going? But I think I'll find something to smoke, I'll find something to eat.

Presenter34:57

So I need something nice to look at. I don't know how to say this.

Presenter35:00

That sounded salacious.

Presenter35:03

I find deeply attractive.

Presenter35:07

James Kahn from Dragon's Den. I think he is adorable. But what I would like is a life size photograph of him.

Presenter35:17

And I'd like it laminated so I can body surf on him.

Presenter35:22

Of all the answers I was expecting, it wasn't that one. You can have a life-size laminated.

Presenter35:27

A cut out photograph of James Kahn from Dragon's Den. Thank you very much. Right. And if I had to ask you to choose just one of these discs, which one would you save from the waves?

Kathy Burke35:30

Thank you very much.

Kathy Burke35:36

Switch

Presenter35:40

Oh, Blimey. I think Lady Gargo. I just love it. I think it's great. It's yours. Kathy Burke, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you very much.

Presenter36:35

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter36:38

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk/radio4.