Lord David Cobbold

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:33

My castaway this week is Lord David Cobbold. He was just thirty two when he took over the ancestral pile Nebworth House, and from that moment on he dedicated himself to keeping it in the family.

Presenter0:46

He succeeded in turning a crumbling corner of the establishment famous for its high Victorian architecture into one of the best rock concert venues in the world.

Presenter0:55

Over the past forty years everyone from Led Zeppelin to Paul McCartney to Oasis have played there.

Presenter1:01

In the early years it was all a bit slapdash. His wife Chrissie used to round up any stray fans in her old Renault to get them to the gig on time.

Presenter1:09

These days, the benefits are clear and practical.

Presenter1:12

When Robbie Williams performed three sell-out nights, it paid for the estate's new sewage pipes and repairs to the deer fence. The other benefit, of course, is having a front-row seat to some of the most celebrated performances in rock history. We are very lucky. The whole period that our generation lived through, he says, was very creative and entertaining and very positive. It was a fun time. A lot of good things happened, as well as some difficulties. So, Lord Cobbold, let's go back then to one of the earliest concerts at Nebworth, and maybe some of the difficulties. It was 1976. The Rolling Stones were due to play.

Presenter1:50

And you also, I understand, had a group of girl guides camping at Networth in the same week. A recipe for well, maybe not disaster, but certainly hijinks. Tell me what happened.

Speaker 11:53

And of course it's

Lord David Cobbold2:00

It was it was very funny because the Rolling Stones came down on the Thursday evening for a uh a practice play and to test the systems and things, and they were playing in the park. But we had a girl guide group camping in the park.

Lord David Cobbold2:13

And the the girl guide leader came up storming up to me and said, What on earth is this going on, this terrible noise?

Lord David Cobbold2:20

And I said, Well, for goodness sake, there's Mick Jagger playing there. Maybe your girls would prefer to stop and listen to that.

Lord David Cobbold2:27

And she said, No, I'm not a bit low. And I said, Well, you better go down and talk to Mick Jagger on the stage which she did. And he luckily he was just finishing, I think, but he did stop. This summer it's going to be Iron Maiden and Iggy and the Stooges. Are you going to be there watching? I shall certainly be there, yes. Alice Cooper is coming as well.

Lord David Cobbold2:44

There are a lot of names that I don't know. I'm out of it now. We hand it on to my son Henry and his American wife Martha and they run the the whole show now.

Presenter2:54

Music then. Tell me what's your first what's your first disc today, David?

Lord David Cobbold2:58

Well, I put down Pink Floyd because uh they were the second concert we did in in nineteen seventy five and for me they're the best memories of the lot and um for example they had a

Lord David Cobbold3:09

A crane at the back of the audience.

Lord David Cobbold3:11

But a cable going right over the 100,000 audience into the stage. And when they came on for the second half, it was just getting dark. And this rocket always shooting along this cable above the crowd with sparks flying out of it into the stage. And about 20 rockets went up in the sky, and the music, Pink Florid music, came right onto the microphone. It was just a sensational moment. So to me, all the others have been wonderful. The Pink Florid concert is, in my view, the best. And I like this bit of record talking about the dark side of the moon.

Speaker 33:46

Breaks open many years and so

Speaker 33:54

The big

Speaker 33:59

Your head explodes with art proposals too.

Speaker 34:05

I see you on the dark side of the moon

Presenter4:12

Pink Floyd and Brain Damage from the Dark Side of the Moon. You you seemed lost in the moment there, David Kobold. Were you actually on the stage when Pink Floyd were performing? No, I wasn't. I was out in the crowd.

Lord David Cobbold4:20

Well no I wasn't

Presenter4:23

Uh

Lord David Cobbold4:23

And um I think for Pink Flow there were about ninety thousand I think.

Presenter4:29

And that was a seminal moment in for you know, for anybody who was there and for for fans of rock music, that particular concert at Nebworth, where they performed uh those tracks, w was an incredible moment. For you, given that it was where it was, it must have been even more powerful.

Lord David Cobbold4:43

But it was, and they've all been very m em emotional, all the concerts that we've had, that number of people. You can't believe they all come to listen to something in Nibbeth Park. Wow, it's incredible. And everybody just enjoys it.

Presenter4:55

Um is it is it the case? I've heard the story that after the concert, Pink Floyd came for, you know, a relaxing drink in the library and and the drug squad were also at the house and you you and your wife, Chrissie, had sort of

Lord David Cobbold5:06

We sat in the hall between the two, hoping that they wouldn't wouldn't meet.

Presenter5:13

Successful.

Lord David Cobbold5:14

I think we were, yes. And I you know, bless them, I don't know what they were doing wrong anyway, but we thought it would be wise to keep them apart.

Presenter5:22

We're talking about stories of rock stars in your house. Is it true that you served Noel Gallagher champagne in his bath? Well, your bath

Lord David Cobbold5:29

Uh

Presenter5:29

Anyway.

Lord David Cobbold5:29

It is true, yes. I brought it, and he thought I was the butler, and I didn't quarrel with that concept. How did you know?

Lord David Cobbold5:36

That'll be all he spoke to the rest of the team and it was overheard.

Presenter5:40

Um, I want to then give people an indication of the sort of house that that Nebworth is. Your fam it's been home to your family since the end of the fourteen hundreds. In case people are not familiar with the actual architecture of the house, I mean, w what how would you describe it? Uh

Lord David Cobbold5:55

Well, it was originally a a a four-sided red brick.

Lord David Cobbold5:58

quadrangle of a house. And it was like that until the beginning of the nineteenth century really, when uh misses Bulwer Lytton inherited the house. It hadn't been occupied by the family for about fifty years, and so I think it was in a very bad state. She pulled three of the four sides of the red brick Tudor house down.

Lord David Cobbold6:15

and covered the remaining side with um stucco.

Lord David Cobbold6:19

And her son, Edward Boovelitham, added all the Victorian Gothic decoration, which is very much the main feature of Nebwith House now. It's not everybody's coffee tea. You either hate it or or or love it, but it's fairly unique. I don't know of any other house in Britain that looks quite like Nebwith.

Presenter6:39

Your great-great-grandfather is the novelist Edward Bulwer Lytton, and and he I mean, in his day he was a best-selling.

Lord David Cobbold6:47

Absolutely, yes. He was the the best-selling author in in England. He was an extraordinary figure, also involved in politics and absolutely. I mean he signed the Charter for British Columbia.

Presenter6:47

Absolutely.

Lord David Cobbold6:58

And for Queensland and Australia.

Lord David Cobbold7:00

And he was a playwright. He wrote successful plays, The Money and The Lady of Lions.

Lord David Cobbold7:05

And he was also a mentor for Charles Dickens, is that? He met Charles Dickens when Charles was quite young and I think taking notes in Parliament.

Lord David Cobbold7:13

And so they remained great friends. And in fact Dickens came to Nebworth and he was a keen amateur actor as well and put on a series of plays in the banqueting hall at Nebworth.

Lord David Cobbold7:24

Uh

Presenter7:24

And and um your great-great-grandfather was also a keen spiritualist. Is it true that whilst he occupied the house he also had in residence a medium?

Lord David Cobbold7:33

He did, yes, he had a medium living there.

Lord David Cobbold7:36

Uh he was

Lord David Cobbold7:38

Very interested in the archival. Do you think Nebworth has ghosts?

Lord David Cobbold7:42

I hear them. My wife sees them. I only hear them and feel the presence. And I think Bulwalitton is still there. In fact, when it was his centenary, we had an exhibition. And for the first week or so, the alarm always went off in the night time. We had to send it some help and do. And after about a fortnight, it it never happened again. Until the very last night, we were just about to dismantle the exhibition. And the burger alarm was set off again, and we thought this was Bulwalittin coming to have a last look at his exhibition.

Presenter8:17

Uh

Presenter8:17

I mean, you talk about it as though you're absolutely certain that there are ghosts, but it I mean it must be quite a convenient certainty, given that do you not do tours of the house and sort of encourage people to think that that's part of the the history of a ghost?

Lord David Cobbold8:27

I mean as I say I haven't seen it so I can't describe. I've certainly had the sensation that the atmosphere is very strong.

Presenter8:35

Really? Not just after you've had a sherry then? No.

Lord David Cobbold8:36

Do you have had a sherry then?

Presenter8:39

Mm.

Lord David Cobbold8:39

sometimes it's very positive. It's the spirit of of the house. You just feel it's rather a special place to be. Let's have some more music. Tell me what we're going to hear next. We're going to hear part of the overture for Wagner's opera Rienzi. It was the um opera that made Wagner famous. And

Lord David Cobbold8:58

My great-grandfather, Robert, the son of the author, was British minister in Vienna.

Lord David Cobbold9:05

and he met Wagner and he said that he'd based his opera rienzi totally on

Lord David Cobbold9:12

Robert's father, Edward Boor Lytton's novel, Rienzu, so that there's a family connection with this wonderful bit of music.

Presenter10:17

Part of the overture to Wagner's Rienze, performed by the Philadelphia Orchestra, conducted by Wolfgang Savarlisch. So, David Kobbold, this extraordinary Gothic structure that you grew up in, it was your home. I mean, what was your bedroom like? What was life like?

Lord David Cobbold10:31

It was where I grew up as a child, although Nebus was was an institution during the war, but we we moved in in 1950 and and so um it was very much part of my my my whole sort of psyche.

Lord David Cobbold10:44

Um

Presenter10:44

I mean, given how different it is you know, for most of the

Presenter10:48

The homes that most of us grow up in, and you say it's part of your psyche. What sort of impression?

Lord David Cobbold10:53

However

Presenter10:53

Oh.

Lord David Cobbold10:53

Uh

Presenter10:53

It makes

Presenter10:54

Yeah.

Lord David Cobbold10:54

Well w w when the house is a problem because it's got it's age and then the Gothic decoration on top of it is very fallible and it was in a pretty bad state.

Lord David Cobbold11:03

My grandfather tried to give it to the National Trust in the 1930s and my father and mother, when they were running it, looked at the possibilities of it being a branch of an American university, and they all shied away from having to restore the the house as well.

Presenter11:18

So when you were sort of, if you like, round the breakfast table with your mother and father, di d did you always get the impression that here was the house that was, as much as you might love it, was was something of a burden?

Lord David Cobbold11:30

Yeah.

Presenter11:30

To the family.

Lord David Cobbold11:30

Very much so, absolutely. We were wondering what we were going to do with it and we were impressed by in the late sixties Weban and Longleat and things where but the tourist interest in in the heritage was beginning to grow.

Lord David Cobbold11:43

And we said, we're thirty miles north of London. If if they can do it, we ought to be able to have a go. And so we went to my parents and said, would they mind if we took her on Nebboth? And my mother was absolutely thrilled.

Lord David Cobbold11:55

My father said, You're absolutely crazy, it's a financial disaster, and the answer is they were both right.

Lord David Cobbold12:01

Uh

Presenter12:01

I want to in a little more depth later on ask you about that period when you took over, but I'm interested just now in just looking a bit at your uh early life as you grew up. You said that the house was an institution during the war. And you were born in nineteen thirty seven. So what sort of war did you have? Were you decanted into one of the houses on the estate?

Lord David Cobbold12:20

Yes, and in fact we were living in Buckinghamshire.

Lord David Cobbold12:23

And my mother had two brothers. One, Anthony, was killed in a flying accident in Hendon in 1933, and John, the second brother, was killed at the Battle of Alamein in 1942. And my grandfather wanted the house to go to his daughter, Hermane, my mother.

Lord David Cobbold12:42

And so we moved from Buckinghamshire and settled in a cottage in the village of Nebworth, where we spent the rest of the war years.

Presenter12:49

And tell me about your mother then. What what sort of woman?

Lord David Cobbold12:52

Was she Oh, she was lovely. And she lived to ninety nine and three quarters wanted to be a hundred, but she just fell over and hurt herself just at the wrong moment. But she was a marvellous lady.

Presenter13:02

Uh

Lord David Cobbold13:03

And did she

Presenter13:03

Liver

Lord David Cobbold13:04

But her final

Presenter13:04

B

Lord David Cobbold13:05

He is on the estate?

Presenter13:05

She did, yes. Did she come to the concert?

Lord David Cobbold13:09

She came to some of them, more more so in the early days of the first few concerts.

Lord David Cobbold13:14

I think she went once, there was a huge marquee at the entrance where people were a thousand people sleeping in sleeping bags. And she said, Hope you all sleep well, my dears. Let's have some music. Tell me what we're going to hear now.

Lord David Cobbold13:27

Well now we're moving back to the concert stage and to an event which I think is one of the great moments in Nebwood's history.

Lord David Cobbold13:35

It's in nineteen ninety when um Paul McCartney was

Lord David Cobbold13:38

played Hey Jude and I was actually on the stage standing behind him and as I think you're hearing the music it got more and more of a crescendo. He then got the Nebwith audience, the 100,000 people out in the park, all singing Hey Jude and this is one of the great moments in Nebwith history.

Speaker 313:59

The people that get work seen, come on!

Speaker 314:12

Yeah, you sound so sweet tonight.

Speaker 314:26

The people on the left side.

Presenter14:28

That was Paul McCartney with the audience at Nebworth in nineteen ninety and Hey Jude, and and it does literally bring tears to your eyes, David Cobbold. What is it about it that that moves you?

Lord David Cobbold14:39

It's just the emotion seeing how Paul was s so much giving his whole and getting this tremendous response from from the audience.

Presenter14:47

And to have um aside from the performer himself, to to have the position of being on stage, you say you were standing behind him when that was going on.

Lord David Cobbold14:54

And I was so I felt that I was partly doing it with him.

Presenter14:57

Uh

Lord David Cobbold14:57

Uh

Lord David Cobbold14:58

Yeah.

Presenter14:58

It was just a wonderful experience.

Lord David Cobbold14:59

Uh

Presenter15:00

Let's go way back then to when you were you were thirteen when you were sent to Eton. From Eton you went to Cambridge and you met your wife Chrissie at a debutante's ball. I'm I'm looking at this picture of your life and

Lord David Cobbold15:12

Well, after Leighton, I went straight into the Air Force for national service for a year to Canada. I think looking back, the most exciting and interesting year of my life.

Lord David Cobbold15:22

Uh

Presenter15:22

I mean, given given the the colorful life you've had, and we will go on to talk a little bit more about it, it's interesting to hear you say that, that was the year that was the most sort of exciting of your life. What was it about that year in Canada?

Lord David Cobbold15:34

Well just flying a a j a jet plane on your own and you're like a seagull, you can just go round and about

Lord David Cobbold15:41

And it's the most amazing feeling of freedom and power.

Presenter15:45

And so if I can just sort of jump back a bit, you'd been at Eton, you went to Cambridge.

Presenter15:51

You met your wife at this debutante's ball, and your father at one point had been the the governor of the Bank of England. All all of this you know, you went on t at one point to work in the city. So much of your life seems to have been sort of preordained be because of, you know, the class that you were born into and the time that you were born. Was that something you were comfortable with growing up?

Presenter16:11

I haven't

Lord David Cobbold16:12

I was like any el anyone else. I my father was governor back of England.

Lord David Cobbold16:16

So it was a sort of natural career thing for me to go into the banking world. I think I was naturally ambitious. I had an interesting career.

Lord David Cobbold16:25

But I had a fascinating time and I had to marry that activity with my Lebeth activity after 1970.

Presenter16:32

Not bad going. Let's have some music then. Tell me, we're now on track number four. What are we going to hear?

Lord David Cobbold16:38

Well, this is when I was at Eton. I think John Giovanni was put was on in Slough and somehow we were allowed to go there. And I really enjoyed it, and I bought a record of it afterwards, which I played a lot at the time. But this little this song out of it is a good party song. You can see he's interested in making the party go.

Speaker 317:22

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Presenter17:44

That was Thomas Allen singing Now that the wine has set their heads whirling from Mozart's Don Giovanni with the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Bernard Heitink. We've mentioned quite a few times, David Cobold, your wife, Chrissie. I read that when you first met her you asked her if she was a mermaid. Is that true?

Lord David Cobbold18:01

That's true. It was a a a Deb dance, and as I went into the room I looked across, sitting on the floor was this gorgeous creature in an aquamarine dress, completely off the shoulders as they were in those days, so I could see right down to her tummy button.

Lord David Cobbold18:16

I said, I think I can sit next to her. And I went and sat down beside her and and said

Lord David Cobbold18:22

Hello, are you a mermaid? And she said, Yes, I am. And so she was known as the mermaid for quite a long time in the family.

Presenter18:29

time passed and you and Chrissie did marry and you started out on your banking career. Your career was cut quite short because your father decided that he wanted to to hand Nebworth on. He w he was sixty five and you were in your early thirties.

Lord David Cobbold18:42

Additionally,

Presenter18:42

Did the conversation go?

Lord David Cobbold18:43

Yeah, as well, as I said, my parents had had tried to find a long term future for Nebroth House.

Lord David Cobbold18:49

And so it was a question of what we do, and we talked about it.

Lord David Cobbold18:54

And Chrissie and I were impressed by what was happening at Woburn and Longleat and that the tourist business was growing and that if they can do it, why can't we? We're near near to London.

Presenter19:04

Let's just remind people, of course, you mentioned places like Woburn and Longleat. They were opening up their doors to the public, which at the time was quite a revolution.

Lord David Cobbold19:12

No.

Presenter19:12

Uh

Lord David Cobbold19:12

Yeah.

Presenter19:12

Uh

Lord David Cobbold19:12

And it was one way of keeping historic houses going. So, this was at the end of the 60s then? This was at the end of the 60s. And I was still banking, and I was.

Presenter19:17

Yeah.

Lord David Cobbold19:21

I think I took half a year's leave of absence to get the show off the road.

Lord David Cobbold19:25

We've achieved quite a bit, but it's extremely difficult business keeping a house like that.

Presenter19:29

Okay. And when you moved into the house then, with a young family at the very end of the sixties, w what sort of I mean, how much of the house were you living in and what sort of condition was the house in?

Lord David Cobbold19:39

Well, it divides itself fairly well into into the private and public sector. You don't have to have the public come in through your bedroom.

Presenter19:45

Can you think back though? You know, was it in good repair or were there sort of a paper?

Lord David Cobbold19:48

But yeah, it was in a terrible state and it had dry rot and things like that. And we got architects to look at it and to prepare a ten phase programme of restoration for the house.

Lord David Cobbold19:58

We've now succeeded in doing five point five of the of the ten phases with help from English Heritage and various grants, but otherwise from the proceeds of Rock Pronsets. And as I said, we've done a lot of work on it and we've completed

Lord David Cobbold20:13

five and a half of the ten phase programme, but the remaining four and a half phases are estimated to cost about nine million pounds.

Lord David Cobbold20:21

So that's the frustration of it.

Presenter20:24

Let's take a little break for some music, David. Tell us what we're going to hear next. We're on disc number five.

Lord David Cobbold20:30

When we got married, the next day we took the train to Paris and I was working in a French bank.

Lord David Cobbold20:35

But we did have the good fortune of of going one day to listen to

Lord David Cobbold20:40

It is Piaf singing at the Olympia Theatre in the Shoes Liese.

Lord David Cobbold20:44

And I think it was probably her very last public appearance.

Lord David Cobbold20:48

And ever since hearing her sing live like that,

Lord David Cobbold20:51

Wonderful experience and I've been a great fan of hers ever since.

Lord David Cobbold20:55

Of course, the fact that she sings a song called Milor is too it has to be a favourite.

Speaker 321:02

Advones, Milor, mous à soir, madables, il façoir, y si cest comport bless et vous père, milor, et pour biè roses, bon pène sur monkeur, et boupiè sur neuchaise, je bouquon, milor, mou ma veja mais vous, jeans que ne pie di bon.

Speaker 121:11

Uh

Speaker 321:28

Finomre de la

Presenter21:32

Edith Piaff, Anne Millard. When you look, David Cobbold, at the list of acts that have performed at Nebworth, it is an incredible role call. As we've heard, Paul McCartney, obviously, and Pink Floyd. There's been Queen, Robbie Williams, Led Zeppelin.

Presenter21:46

The Rolling Stones, the Beach Boys' Genesis.

Presenter21:49

really a roll call of the top acts in rock over the last forty years. But but originally and initially it wasn't you and your wife who saw that potential. It was this uh this music promoter called Freddie Bannister.

Lord David Cobbold22:01

It was indeed.

Presenter22:02

He came to you and what did he say?

Lord David Cobbold22:04

He said that he was looking for a site near London to hold large rock concerts. He'd been having running successful concerts in the west of England, but he wanted to find a site somewhere uh near London where he could do greater things. I walked into the park and said, This is just a perfect natural amphitheatre, it's got to be here. I came into our office and said

Lord David Cobbold22:24

Would you like to do a rock concert? And we said, great idea. How much? And he said, about ten thousand pounds And in those days that sounded like a lot of money, so we said, Yes, please. That's how it all started.

Presenter22:36

And so if your father, as you say, had been reluctant even at the idea of opening the gates to some well behaved people who wanted to see a a nice big posh house, um what did you make of the idea of opening the gates to hundreds of thousands of mi potentially badly behaved rock goers?

Lord David Cobbold22:51

Oh no, I don't think so. It was a new form of business, and really exciting, a lovely idea to have an event of that importance. And my parents were absolutely delighted, too.

Presenter23:00

Yeah.

Lord David Cobbold23:01

Yeah.

Presenter23:01

So those first f few years then, in the seventies, I I mentioned in the introduction Chrissie rounding up a few stragglers here and there in her old battered Renault and bringing them, you know, if if they weren't quite going to make the concert on time. The early days. Give me a give me a flavour of what it was like.

Lord David Cobbold23:17

Well, it was mostly people in jeans and knapsacks, and they used to come several days before the concert, and then after the concert, they would stay and help m clear it up. So when driving around, we'd find someone who'd been walking all the way from London. Come into Lebwith, yes, yes, jump in the back.

Lord David Cobbold23:34

And so there was a lot of that went on in it. Um now Robbie Williams, uh all the fans were ladies coming from the city in their Alpha Romeus uh but got very stuck on the motorway and there were about ten ladies to every man in the audience.

Presenter23:49

Yeah.

Presenter23:50

Yeah.

Lord David Cobbold23:50

David Cobb

Presenter23:50

Well, you were diagnosed two years ago, I think it was, with Parkinson's disease. Do you remember first realizing that something was wrong?

Lord David Cobbold24:00

Um well I went for a checkup uh and uh just came out of out of that. I think th that's the p the problem.

Lord David Cobbold24:07

Um I don't really like talking about it because I d uh it's not it's not uh terribly serious at the moment and the pills that I'm on seem to keep it down and lots of other people have this problem as well.

Lord David Cobbold24:18

And

Presenter24:18

Do you are you still at Westminster working? I mean, you were one of the the ninety peers who who survived the cull in the House of Lords. Do you play at the.

Lord David Cobbold24:25

I do spend about three or four days a week in in the house. Right. As much as that, that's quite a commitment.

Lord David Cobbold24:33

But it may not be for much longer. They seem to want to abolish the House of Lords.

Presenter24:38

Um you seem clearly somebody who still has a a good deal of energy, a very positive person. Um when you look to the future, you know, you've handed Nebworth over to your son. I mean, does it keep you awake at night? Do you worry about the future of the house? No, because uh just live with it. Tell me about the next track then. We're we're uh we're going to hear a bit of Ella Fitzgerald.

Lord David Cobbold25:00

Well, in 1980 we had a a couple of um jazz concerts.

Lord David Cobbold25:04

And Ella Fitzgerald, whom I always had a huge admiration for, was Billed.

Lord David Cobbold25:11

And she had tea in the house and she was really delightful, very nice. I kept the teacup that she drank with her lipstick on it and hung it on a hook on the wall in the drawing room. She was really nice and she signed my record of her playing with Louis Armstrong. And it was a really wonderful chance to hear her sing in person.

Speaker 325:33

My gloves, I need no overflow I'm burning with love My heart's on fire, the flame goes higher So I will wear the new star What do I care how much it may star?

Speaker 325:52

I've got my love to keep me, I've got my love to keep me, I've got my love to keep me warm.

Presenter26:03

Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong, and I've got my love to keep me warm. David Cobbold, you and Chrissie have four children then, and in two thousand two you decided that your eldest son, Henry,

Presenter26:13

It was time for him to take over the running of the place. You should hand it on to him. Was that a

Presenter26:18

Was it a difficult decision to let it go, or were you ready to step back?

Lord David Cobbold26:22

No, we were ready. We've done we've done thirty years. Also, I think that it's very important for grandchildren to grow up in the house and to enjoyed it as children and feel it as home.

Lord David Cobbold26:32

Because they were living in Los Angeles before, and if they'd stayed in Los Angeles and the grandchildren had grown up out there, we'd carried on to our dotage. I think one gets stale after a bit, and it was a good thing to pass it on to the next generation. And was there any resistance from Henry? Was he

Presenter26:45

Was he happy to take over?

Lord David Cobbold26:47

Oh yes, they came back from California particularly to do that. His wife, Martha, is a very uh hard work and keen businesswoman, and she runs the business now and does a fantastically good job.

Presenter26:59

I mentioned then your four children. There are also two other members of your family who are sort of unofficial members of your family. They were school.

Lord David Cobbold27:08

Two Ugandan boys who who were at Eton with um my boys, their parents were having problems and were separated and

Presenter27:09

Yeah.

Lord David Cobbold27:15

Danny, the eldest, he arrived on our doorstep with a suitcase.

Lord David Cobbold27:19

And then his younger brother, Harry, joined in a little bit later on.

Lord David Cobbold27:23

And they they were part of the family. And they're both delightful boys. Harry married my wife's niece, so he really is part of the family.

Presenter27:34

And of course the very traditional, the sort of feudal way of of these things is that the house gets handed on to the eldest son. W w was that absolutely understood by your other children? Or was there a sort of come on dad, it's time to get back up to date and and be a bit more equal about this?

Lord David Cobbold27:49

No, we we gave all the children a start in life, and we sold a cottage and each of them

Lord David Cobbold27:55

I mean if you split it all up then that's the end of it.

Lord David Cobbold27:58

That is the the problem.

Presenter27:59

Has there ever been a time when you thought, you know, I've given this house my life, and I've put so much energy and thought into trying to maintain it, but actually it would be easier for everyone and for generations to come if we accepted that these days, with the costs of things, it's just not possible to keep it in the family?

Lord David Cobbold28:18

Um one has those sort of bad thoughts, but not really. We're all determined to keep going as far as we can.

Lord David Cobbold28:25

I mean Edward, my grandson, who's likely to be the successor.

Lord David Cobbold28:29

I don't know, he may have completely different ideas when he's grown up and takes over. But for the time being it it's ticking along. And do all the grandchildren come when you have a concert there? Do they go? Oh yes, grandchildren come all the time.

Presenter28:38

Yeah.

Presenter28:41

I expect you're probably a very popular grandfather with those.

Lord David Cobbold28:44

Concert Well, Constance, yes, but my wife is a wonderful grandmother. She's absolutely marvellous. She looks after everybody non-stop.

Lord David Cobbold28:52

Let's have some more music then. Disc number seven.

Lord David Cobbold28:55

We're now hearing

Lord David Cobbold28:56

Franks and Archer are singing Some Enchanted Evening from the Rogers and Hammersteins South Pacific.

Lord David Cobbold29:02

I find it very difficult to know what to choose for this programme because there's been so much wonderful music created in those Broadway shows. I play them all and I love all the songs.

Lord David Cobbold29:14

And the other thing I I I was a huge fan of Frank Sinatra.

Lord David Cobbold29:18

And so I thought one compromise would get him singing out of South Pacific some enchanted evening.

Speaker 129:23

Some enchanted evening

Speaker 129:29

You may see a stranger

Speaker 129:35

You may see a stranger across a crowded room

Speaker 129:45

And somehow you know

Speaker 129:50

You know even then

Presenter29:55

Frank Sinatra and Some Enchanted Evening from Rogers and Hammerstein South Pacific. David Cobbold, you've had a very a long and successful marriage. You say that Chrissy is a a wonderful grandmother.

Lord David Cobbold30:06

I'm very spoiled. I'm very lucky.

Lord David Cobbold30:09

I've got a lovely, lovely wife who looks after me very well and we're coming up for fifty years golden wedding next year.

Presenter30:15

I don't want to spoil the surprise, but are you going to have a big party for your fiftieth wedding?

Lord David Cobbold30:19

Well, we've never wanted to go on a cruise before. We always thought those were for oldies. But now that we are oldies, we thought we might give it a try. So we're going off to the Amazon and the Orinoco and across the Atlantic.

Lord David Cobbold30:31

That's next year's treat to matching the anniversary.

Presenter30:34

Quite a treat. Uh you say we're oldies now, but of course you've you've

Presenter30:38

Certainly been on the fringes of sex and drugs and rock and roll. I mean, w when you look back at the the life you've lived, are you quite surprised at uh that that was possible?

Lord David Cobbold30:46

Well I think we've been extremely lucky. We were brought up in the relics of the war when things were difficult.

Lord David Cobbold30:53

And then gradually it's opened up and there's been h wonderful uh music that's been produced, rock and roll, and then all these theatrical successes, then parties and parties and

Presenter31:03

Yeah.

Lord David Cobbold31:03

A lot of fun has been had over

Presenter31:04

It's interesting that you mentioned the sort of concert goers that you have now at Nebworth, you know, the the ladies in their Alfa Romeos. Is there a little bit of you that that feels nostalgic about the days when life was a little bit simpler, when it was people in their jeans and knapsacks and a bit of free love?

Lord David Cobbold31:22

Yes, that's why I think I still love the seventh fire concept of pink fluoride best, that we were more fan. So it has changed, yes. And as I say, I think we feel very lucky that we had the the best of all

Presenter31:32

Who else?

Presenter31:34

Now, dear, but I'm going to maroon you, of course, on a desert island. You're going to be all on your own. How will how will you cope without the music, without the crowds?

Lord David Cobbold31:41

I will be very sad and I should shouldn't think I'll last very long, really.

Presenter31:47

Let's hear then your final piece of music. What are we going to hear?

Lord David Cobbold31:51

Well, those were the days and as I said, I think we were very, very lucky. We've had a very happy life. And I look back on it and not much looking forward to the next remaining few years of life going gradually going downhill. So this is a song which always makes me remember with all the friends we've had and the parties that we've been to and all been together.

Lord David Cobbold32:15

And uh those were the days.

Speaker 332:18

Those were the days, my friend. We thought they'd never end. We'd sing and dance forever and a day. We'd live the life we choose. We'd fight and never lose. For we were young and sure to have our way.

Presenter32:47

Mary Hopkin and those were the days. So, David, I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. Which uh which book are you going to take to the island?

Lord David Cobbold32:56

Well, I thought I would take um Zanoni, which is one of Edward Booleft's my great-great-grandfather's novels, which is all about the occult. You may have that, then, and a luxury, too, for this island. Well, I'm I'm not quite sure how one hears the music.

Lord David Cobbold33:13

But um I thought I I might need a s solar powered microwave oven to uh c cook the fish in if I can catch them, or or possibly a a fishing rod. I don't know.

Presenter33:23

Well, in the spirit of the programme, I think the fishing rod is the one that I will give you.

Lord David Cobbold33:26

But I will give you a little bit of a message.

Presenter33:28

And uh if you had to choose just one of these eight disks, which one disc would you choose above the others?

Presenter33:35

Well, I think I have to say Pink Floyd. That was uh brain damage from the dark side of the moon. Dark side of the moon. Right, that's yours. David Cobbold, Baron Cobbold of Nebworth, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Lord David Cobbold33:47

Well, thank you very much indeed. I've really enjoyed the experience.

Presenter34:37

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio Four website bbc. co dot uk slash radio four.